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Where Does Our Soul Dwell

Where does our soul dwell until the resurrection?

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 ---carol_colvin on 2/12/12
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Cluny: "You don't actually think you believe all the Scripture, do you?"

Sure!

2Ti 3:16 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It is quite evident that you don't believe ALL the Bible. How do you decide which parts are TRUE and which parts are LIES? Are you of greater intelligence than God?


---jerry6593 on 2/25/12


"Popa Bear, If you chek vs 9 you'll see that it was a "vision" not an actual happening.
Moses and Elijah are dead,awaiting resurrection like the rest of the dead!"
---1st_cliff on 2/14/12


As usual, you don't "see" the big picture Cliff! Peter, James & John really (actually) did "SEE" (physically visualize) Jesus with Moses & Elijah. (Matt. 17) Why do you suppose Peter wanted to make three tents for Jesus & the prophets? (Mark 9:5) Was he just tripping? Your implication seems to suggest the disciples were only hallucinating, so Jesus' transfiguration didn't "actually happen"? The disciples imagined the whole thing. Is that it Cliff?!
---Leon on 2/24/12


\\Cluny: "The ability to quote scripture is meaningless."

You miss the point. It is not the quoting of them that is at issue here, but rather the believing of them.


---jerry6593 on 2/24/12\\

You don't actually think you believe all the Scripture, do you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/24/12


Is the human SOUL merely animated SOIL? I don't think so: When God breathed life (His Spirit) into Adam's nostril, his "dusty" physical body became a living, cognizant, individual "spirit/soul". Therefore, we humans (having been initially hewn from the ground: Adam) are spirit/soul extensions of our Creator, made in the image/likeness of God. (Gen. 1:26 & 2:7)

I believe our spirit/souls (our minds) are housed in our physical brains. So, when our immortal, "God-like" spirit/souls depart our mortal (death doomed) physical (soil) bodies, they go one of two places: Regenerated (born again) spirit/souls return to God. Unregenerated spirit/souls go to hell. That's what the Bible teaches!
---Leon on 2/24/12


Jerry, all my answers to you were answered kindly and with respect. You answer and tell me my answers are "pitiful"
Didn't you realize your question was wrong? You said,
"MarkV: Much words, but still no answer. I repeat, do you think all the verses I quoted are lies as well? A simple YES or No will do." How could I answer yes or no when you ask "all the verses"? I answer not all. So a simple yes or no was not possible. If they were all wrong, I would have said all. Another thing not possible, is to talk to you with respect at all. So I will treat you as hostile always. If my answers are pitiful why do you ask me questions concerning the passages you gave? You don't care about the Truth why ask?
---Mark_V. on 2/24/12




Depending on whether the soul has been redeemed by the Lord YAHUSHUA (JESUS CHRIST) or not. If the soul is a follower of GOD through His Son YAHUSHUA, and is striving to walk in the Holy Ways of GOD, by the Power of the RUACH Ha KODESH (Holy Spirit), that soul goes immediately to Heaven at Death. If the soul dies in their sins, then, the soul, in that case, will go directly to Hell to await their standing before the Great White Throne of GOD to be cast into the Lake of Fire (also known as "The Second Death").
---Gordon on 2/24/12


"But concerning "firstborn" in (v. 15) "firstborn of all creation" has to mean Chronologically, but most often refers to "Preeminence in position, or rank" (Romans 8:29) In Jewish and Greek culture the firstborn was in ranking son who had received the right of inheritance from his father, whether he was born first or not. What do you think?" I agree completely with this statement. Mark V you have shown that you "study to show yourself approved" I was not arguing your beliefs, simply conveying my own. I thank both you and Poppa Bear for the exchange. I appreciate your taking the time to do so.
---joseph on 2/23/12


Cluny: "The ability to quote scripture is meaningless."

You miss the point. It is not the quoting of them that is at issue here, but rather the believing of them.


---jerry6593 on 2/24/12


MarkV: "Jerry, I believe I answered your question as best as I could."

Pitiful! Try again and tell me honestly (if you can) whether you believe these scriptures or not:

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward,

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Act 2:29,34 ... David, that he is both dead and buried, ... For David is not ascended into the heavens

Joh 11:11 .... Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
---jerry6593 on 2/24/12


\\do you think all the verses I quoted are lies as well?\\

The ability to quote scripture is meaningless.

Pharisees and demons did it to Jesus all the time.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/23/12




Jerry, I believe I answered your question as best as I could. It was also to help you and whoever reads to correctly interpret passages. It take some work, but if we truely love the Lord with all our heart we will do the work. We should not allow anyone or anything to stop us from learning the Truth since our salvation depends that we have the Truth, and not a lie.
Too many times people refuse to learn because they already have a bias believe, what is called, "theological bias." And even if they are wrong they refuse to listen thinking they have to be loyal to their bias believes because of their church, but they do it at their own risk, not others since those who are lost are lost already.
---Mark_V. on 2/23/12


jerry6593//I'm not impressed with circumlocution and obfuscation.

---
If that were really true you would NOT be a Seventh Day Adventist as they truly speak out of both sides of the mouths.

One is saved by grace alone, not by works they say, then they turn 180 degrees around and say ones eternal salvation will be determined at what they call the Investigative Judgment- a salvation by works belief.

The souls of the departed dwell with God as we read in Rev. 6:9 "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne."

And there is no evidence that these souls were sleeping!

Adventism is obfuscation.
---lee1538 on 2/23/12


I completely agree Cluny, He does have it all worked out. Mark, good way of explaining how we should read scripture according to context and so on.
Blessings
7x70
---Poppa_Bear on 2/23/12


MarkV: Much words, but still no answer. I repeat, do you think all the verses I quoted are lies as well? A simple YES or No will do. I'm not impressed with circumlocution and obfuscation.


---jerry6593 on 2/23/12


Jerry 2: I don't think everything you say is not true. I have to read the context. See what the story is talking about and who was speaking. Whether the person in the story is speaking truth or not, by making sure if it was a descriptive passage or a prescriptive passage. If God is saying something, it's always true. We have to ask, who is speaking? Is the teaching normative or intended for specific individuals? To whom is the passage directed? Promises and commands are usually directed to one of these groups, National Israel, Old Testament believers, or New Testament believers. Normative promises and commands directed to New T. believers are those most likely to apply to contemporary Christians. It's hard work, but it is worth the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 2/22/12


\\Your mistake is when you believe that when Scripture describes human actions without comment, you assume that those actions are approved. \\

Good point.

Sometimes, especially in the OT, the Bible gives us good examples of how NOT to act. It describes how people are, warts and all.

As one person said, while the Bible is always God's Word, this is NOT the same thing as saying it's always God's wordS.

Sometimes the Bible is God's record of MEN'S words and actions.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/22/12


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Good point Cluny: Jesus has it all worked out! :) I hope my brothers are enjoying Jesus' company as I write this.
---Mary on 2/22/12


Good question, carol.

From my understanding of the Bible, departed believers dwell with Jesus until the General Resurrection, when we receive the fullness of our reward.

Some theologians call this the "intermediate state"--a term I first heard in Baptist Sunday School as a child.

In any case, I believe that Jesus has it all worked out, and I need not concern myself with it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/22/12


Jerry, your mistaken. Yes, (2 Tim. 3:16) all Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Writers were moved by the Spirit to write what they wrote.
Your mistake is when you believe that when Scripture describes human actions without comment, you assume that those actions are approved.
What God says in Scripture is always truth. What man says, may or may not be true. What Satan says, usually mixes truth and error, or a lie. It is true Satan said what he did, but doesn't mean that what he said was true. We have what are called discriptive passages which relate to what was said or what happened at a particular time.
Then there are prescriptive passages that claim to be articulating normative principles. "Establishing a norm."
---Mark_V. on 2/22/12


MarkV: I repeat, do you think all the verses I quoted are lies as well? If you begin ripping out pages from the Bible that you don't agree with, then eventually you will have a very thin book. What do you do with the following scripture?

2Ti 3:16 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


---jerry6593 on 2/22/12


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Two thoughts
1. Col 1:16 "For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, [visible and invisible], whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:"
[visible and invisible]
Shadow/Representation: Image of the original
Image:(tselem) literally a [shadow- the outline/ representation of the original.]
Elohiym- plural form (elo'ah) literally "strength" and "power"
Mankind [adam of adamah]

Invisible Hidden
Visible seen
Shadow/representation of the
original
---char on 2/21/12


2.Ysha-visible representation Elohyim.
However: shadow/representation of all else: Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:
[invisible-clearly seen.]

The first-born in [natural- tradition] was not the firstborn that Elohyim choose [purposed Plan of salvation.]
[Firstborn-chosen]Abel-type of Christ:shepherd-died innocently by [Cain-natural-firstborn]
[Firstborn-chosen]Seth-type of the risen Christ keeping-promised Seed alive
Yacob/Essau,Israel/Ephraim etc
Ysha seed/new creation-true Israel. Devil attempts/temptation as -natural firstborn Israel. [40 days]
---char on 2/21/12


Joseph, I have given my reply, but at the same time, I fully appreciate your answer and thoughts on the passage. This isnt a foundational point for me, so I believe that your point still has much validity even though I am satisfied by what I have studied. This is a position that at some point, I may change depending on if The Spirit brings me further illumination on the verses. I do like the healthy discussion and my reply was just my two cents, not some Holy revelation on the matter. Sometimes people on here have a difficult time in remembering, that we can, Disagree without being disagreeable.
In His loving grip
---Poppa_Bear on 2/21/12


Joseph, I wanted to stay with what we were discussing. But concerning Job, I never mentioned he spoke falsely about God. Only that Elijhu had.

Concerning Christ "the first born" Your answer about the firstborn from the dead in (v.Col. 1:18) has to be concerning the Church since the context is talking about the Church the body of Christ. But concerning "firstborn" in (v. 15) "firstborn of all creation" has to mean Chronologically, but most often refers to "Preeminence in position, or rank" (Romans 8:29) In Jewish and Greek culture the firstborn was in ranking son who had received the right of inheritance from his father, whether he was born first or not. What do you think?
---Mark_V. on 2/21/12


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Mat 17:3, for Joseph and Mark. I still hold to my original view after studying these passages. Elijah didnt even see death, but he was taken up, translated, so seeing Gods ability and example of breaking through the natural order of laws and using the super natural to show us his hands ability to supersede death is shown and makes it perfectly possible that we do in fact see Elijah on the mountain with Jesus as stated. With Moses, the super natural as well, God uniquely berried Moses himself, and then Michael in Jude 1, contends for his body against the devil. Both have unnatural ends and fall outside the natural law of the human lifecycle. Luke 9:31 specifically gives the content of their conversation.
---Poppa_Bear on 2/21/12


Thank you Char on 2/20/12. The exactly same thing can be said of you.
"I think we may agree." I can not think of a time when we did not agree.
"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hbr 4:12
"Would you agree, in witnessing the transfiguration, they witnessed not only what takes place at His resurrection, but will take place at the close of this cycle-[flesh age] when the seventh trumpet sounds?" Most definitely.
---joseph on 2/20/12


"Joseph, I agree with your details but cannot understand why you included that Christ was the "firstborn." MarkV. I included that because of Col 1:18. Based on my understanding of the verse. Although I realize that that understanding could be faulty. After re-reading the verse, the term first born could be, based on the wording of the KJV,ASV & NKJV, referring to the Church, as the "first born" from the dead, in the spiritual sense of the word. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. However, In reading the verse in NIV, ESV,RSV, YLT & NASB Jesus seems to be the subject, with that term referencing Him, and that seems to be witnessed by Rom 8:29.
---joseph on 2/21/12


MarkV If I may contribute to the conversation between you an Jerry, consider this verse. "And it was [so], that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me [the thing that is] right, as my servant Job [hath]." Job 42:7 Also notice that Elihu is not mentioned in that verse, nor was he require to offer a burnt offering. The Father found no fault in him or Job as concerning their words, with the exception, perhaps, of Job attributing his suffering to Him. Which I believe Job was acknowledging when he answered the Father's inquiry In chapter 42 verse 3.
---joseph on 2/21/12


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"Is it because if we say He is the firstborn, it could not be Moses and Elijah?" Yes MarkV. If we believe, as Act 26:23 & Act 13:34 states, "that He [Jesus] should be the first that should rise from the dead, never to return to corruption" It could not be Moses and Elijah tangibly embodied, de facto. Resurrection, literally defined, is a rise from the dead, a re-standing to life. As you know Mark, the first eternal resurrection for man, with the exception of Jesus, is yet to occur.
---joseph on 2/21/12


Joseph,
For the record, I express my appreciation of your Fruit.I have not witnessed you judging any man to condemnation if they do not agree with what God confirms in Spirit and in Truth-to you. Nor-witnessed twisting any ones words to place them in a group of unbelievers if they do not agree.Thanks.

Witnessed: Iota, Aleph to Tav-Matt 5:18.
Not all believers were selected for the purpose-only the elect were chosen for. The elect do not have freewill. God will utilize His election to execute His plan of salvation. The plan for remission/return-Saved from the sentence of sin-death. Through Repentance/ keep His Word-Ysha. Lk 24:47,Rom 10,9-10,1Tim 4:10
However, [adam/adamah] do need to chose.
I think we may agree.
Shalom.
---char on 2/20/12


On earth until the trumpet of God sounds.
---Eloy on 2/20/12


Amen Joseph-Agreed.
First born
Elijah was the prophet of the prophets, and Moses was the law giver. It took both the law and the prophets to complete the Word of God. Christ was the Living Word that was prophesied and promised. In Jesus' life and death He fulfilled both the law and the Words prophesied by the prophets.

Would you agree, in witnessing the transfiguration, they witnessed not only what takes place at His resurrection, but will take place at the close of this cycle-[flesh age] when the seventh trumpet sounds?
Shalom
---char on 2/20/12


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Jerry, (Job 14:14) are the words of Job to God. Read the context. God was not speaking, Job was. Job asked to die and remain in the grave until God's anger was over, then be raised to life again when God called him back (v. 13-15). If he were dead God wouldn't be watching every step, counting every sin (v. 17) Here was the hope of resurrection for those who trusted God. Job had hope that if he died, he would live again (v. 22). It is Job talking and what he feels. He said "My transgressions is sealed in a bag" Job is speaking from his heart, they are not sealed in a bag. The book of Job is the Word of God, but the words Job said come from him not God.
---Mark_V. on 2/20/12


MarkV: So your contention then is that Job 34:14, 15 is a LIE? Is that correct?

What about:

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward,

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Act 2:29,34 ... David, that he is both dead and buried, ... For David is not ascended into the heavens

Joh 11:11 .... Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Are these all LIES as well?
---jerry6593 on 2/20/12


Joseph, I agree with your details but cannot understand why you included that Christ was the "firstborn." Is it because if we say He is the firstborn, it could not be Moses and Elijah? I was trying to make out what your point was when you answered. peace brother.
---Mark_V. on 2/20/12


Jerry, I will try to correct you on the passage you gave. First of all these were the words of Elihu not God's. He addressed Job and his acursers. His approach was to quote Job directly (v.5-9), then respond to his complains, but at times he misinterpreted Job's remarks, and at other times he put the words of the accusers in Job's mouth. The most obvious example of the latter wrongdoing was in saying that Job claimed to be sinlessly perfect (v.6) Job never claimed that. In fact Job acknowledged his sin (v. 7:21: 13:26). Elihu didn't know it but God had pronounced Job innocent (1:8: 2:3). Elihu reminded Job that God was too holy to do anything wrong (v.10), fair in dealing with people (v.11,12) Powerful (v.13<14), just (v. 17,18)
---Mark_V. on 2/19/12


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christan: A question for you. Whose spirit or breath is it that leaves a person when they die - man's or God's?

Job 34:14, 15 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath, All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.


---jerry6593 on 2/18/12


I'm still around here, but I haven't had time to devote to this yet.
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 2/18/12


If you are damned, your soul goes to hell. Luckily for you, you won't feel the heat because you won't have a body. But later God will give you a new body so He can throw you, body and soul, into the Lake of Fire. Then you will feel the heat.
---John.usa on 2/18/12


"I see that Elijah and Moses were talking to Jesus, but don't see that they were talking to the three disciples." True. Which would makes me wonder how the disciples even knew who they were. The Father never mentioned it, nor did Jesus. Also peculiar to me, is the fact that none of the actual eyewitnesses even wrote about the occurrence. "Doesn't that mean the experience was only for them?" Yes, at that time. I am uncertain as to why. Although I believe it was for the same reasons that He spoke to the general populace only in parables. He simply wanted the hardhearted and arrogant who thought they saw, and understood, to remain blind and ignorant concerning both Him, and His mission.
---joseph on 2/18/12


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MarkV the vision was real ostensibly, in that it was a real experience that was Divinely influence to appear vividly apparent, evident, or conspicuous visually. In other words, It was not a product of the disciples imagination, the vision was actually occurring. So yes, It was a real occurrence.
Since the word transfigured actually means to change in outward form or appearance, I would have to say Jesus' robe really did change in appearance, and Moses and Elijah really did appeared to be there.
---joseph on 2/18/12


Joseph, I've followed what you and Poppa Bear have discussed and had a question for you. Are you saying the transfiguration was only a vision, not real? Or you saying that the appearance of Moses and Elijah was a vision and not real? Or are you saying that all three were a vision and not real? When Jesus said,"Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead" (v. 9)? Jesus said the same thing in (8:4) and in (12:16) where He warned them not to make Him known?
Doesn't that mean the experience was only for them? I see that Elijah and Moses were talking to Jesus, but don't see that they were talking to the three disciples. Also in (v.12) when He said Elijah has come, He was referring to John the Baptist.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/12


Dig away Poppa Bear. Let me no what conclusion you come to in light of the verses I have given concerning Jesus, as being the first to be raised from the dead never to die again.
---joseph on 2/17/12


Joseph, I may actually look into that. Right off the bat, I have reservations, but I think that it may have some merit, thanks for bringing the passage back to a place where I can say, Now that is in the ball park. I do like to have a reason to dig up a jewel in the scriptures.
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 2/17/12


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Poppa Bear, the transfiguration was a vision, as a Divinely influence experience in which the personages of Moses and Elijah "appeared vividly or credibly to the mind, although not actually present".The images of Moses and Elijah represented a coming together of the Law, represented by image of Moses, and the prophets, represented by image of Elijah, in Jesus, the Christ, as the fulfillment of both. The vision was not so much for benefit of Jesus, as it was for the disciples, to be recorded for ours. As it is written Jesus is "the firstborn, the first fruit, the first begotten, the first that should rise from the dead", never to die again. Col 1:18> 1Cr 15:20,23>Rev 1:18>Act 26:23>13:34
---joseph on 2/17/12


"That's got to be the stupidest theory I've ever seen!

Patience, 1stCliff. If God wills that you die in this condition of unbelief in His Word you'll get to find out first hand like the rich man in Luke 16.

"A loving God providing a special body (probably more sensitive to pain) so it will hurt more!"

Most definitely God is love, no arguments. Only loving to His elect He gave to Christ. Your idea of a "loving God" is perverted and erroneous. He never said He loved everyone He created or He would have not taught us, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." or "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
---christan on 2/16/12


Christian, You're saying God provides a special body for humans to be tortured in???
You take the cake!
That's got to be the stupidest theory I've ever seen! A loving God providing a special body (probably more sensitive to pain) so it will hurt more!
You've been watching too many horror movies!
---1st_cliff on 2/16/12


Samuel, I am sure the Holy Spirit did not teach you "We are a living soul. So when we die the soul goes nowhere. Our Spirit a transcript of who we are and what makes us alive returns to GOD."

Rather the Holy Spirit teaches in the glorification (which happens for the Christians ONLY), "whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ". That is, all three parts are united again.

See the contradiction between 1 The 5:23 and what you have said? Light and darkness that's the difference!

Make no mistake, the reprobates too will receive a body but not the glorified one like the believers. Their body will be meant for eternal torment in the Lake of Fire.
---christan on 2/16/12


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Cliff, Mat 17:3 states they were talking to Jesus. I think they were encouraging Him before his trip to the cross. If the Father allowed them to cross over from the Spiritual realm to do this then it could make more since to me. We do have passages of the angels ministering to Jesus so, it doesnt seem too far fetched to me. I re read my reply to you earlier, sounded a little condescending to me, I apologize for that. It is so easy to be rude and inconsiderate when youre behind a keyboard and no one is around to hold you accountable. But as some have said, The person you really are is the person who you are when youre by yourself.
---Poppa_Bear on 2/16/12


Popa Bear, What do you make of this visit to the mountain with 3 apostles and the vision?
There was no recorded conversation with the Saints,only God's voice from heaven saying he approved of Jesus' earthly mission! (another reason for believing Father and Son are separate beings.) The "type and anti type" of Elijah seemed to be the gist of this experience.(you think?)
---1st_cliff on 2/15/12


There's such a teaching in the Scripture called the glorification, where the Christians will receive a glorified or spiritual body, just like Christ has right now.
---christan on 2/15/12

EXAVTLY, and it is then and ONLY then will Job se God. In his gloriied body. Not in spirit not in soul
---francis on 2/15/12


According to the Bible:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

We are a living soul. So when we die the soul goes nowhere. Our Spirit a transcript of who we are and what makes us alive returns to GOD.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Christian you should your Bible a little better. It is the HOLY SPIRIT who teaches truth when we follow GOD's word.
---Samuel on 2/15/12


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Wow Cliff! I will let you be, I cant even put another question out there. I will let you decide if youre being intellectually honest and believe what you just said. If you do, then to each his own. I have heard some well put together replies from you around here, so I thought that I might hear something a little different. Mind you, I just may be completely out to lunch, because I couldnt have even imagined the implications that you put into the context of those passages.
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 2/15/12


francis, you keep quoting Job 19:26, but where does it say "Not in spirit or in soul..."? Do you not understand? Or are you hoping it will somehow appear in the verse?

When Job said "IN MY FLESH", it's symbolic of the word "BODY". And Paul confirms this, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 The 5:23

There's such a teaching in the Scripture called the glorification, where the Christians will receive a glorified or spiritual body, just like Christ has right now.
---christan on 2/15/12


Please show us where did Job say "Not in spirit or in soul" anywhere in Job 19 or his book? You might want to learn what are metaphors.
---christan on 2/14/12
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet IN MY FLESH shall I see God:


If it is in his flesh he shall see God, surely it is not in spirit of soul
---francis on 2/15/12


Popa Bear, 1st define "vision" synonyms are apparition, hallucination etc.
(or hologram if you like) Peter James and John were terrified and vs 8 says when they opened their eyes they saw only Jesus. They would hardly be terrified if they were talking to the Saints but joyful (don't you think?) Only the 3 witnessed this not the 12. Why isolated on a remote mountain?
Jesus instructed them to say nothing 'till after He was raised!
---1st_cliff on 2/15/12


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Cliff, so because it was a vision, a vision of who they actually saw talking to the Lord, what does that mean to you? What is your interpretation of it? Because it says vision, was it a hologram of them? What good would that have done Jesus, was He just listening to dead images of them for amusement, I cant make since of that logic. I dont have a corner on it, but I think it may have a place in the discussion. Simply assigning it to the sidelines as a vision, leaves it too open ended for the caliber of critical thinking that we have around here. I am still interested in others thoughts as well.
---Poppa_Bear on 2/15/12


Popa Bear, If you chek vs 9 you'll see that it was a "vision" not an actual happening.
Moses and Elijah are dead,awaiting resurrection like the rest of the dead!
---1st_cliff on 2/14/12


"JOB IS DEAD AND AWAITING THE RESURRECTION" francis

God passed a judgment on Adam who represented humanity, "...for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." And according to you, God is going to raise everyone including Job in the flesh and blood again, just like He did with Lazarus in John 11? Gee, I wonder if Lazarus is still walking around or did he die again? You don't even have the correct understanding of the account in John 11 and you use that chapter to justify resurrection in the flesh and blood all over again?

Please show us where did Job say "Not in spirit or in soul" anywhere in Job 19 or his book? You might want to learn what are metaphors.
---christan on 2/14/12


This is a very intrusting discussion. So many comprehensive answers. Im sure this will be an easy question for any of you to answer, on the Mountain of transfiguration, who talked with Jesus, and who did the Disciples see? Was it really Moses and Elijah, or was that a parable, simile, or were they just ghosts? Now lets fit this into everyones argument and see if they can logically fit it into their theological proclamations, or are there some exceptions, or can us mere mortals really even figure it all out? Do we need to be able to answer every question, or can we just sometimes say like Paul did in the doxology at the end of Romans 11? , Humbly yours, the Bear.
---Poppa_Bear on 2/14/12


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where's he now for the time being since his soul and spirit does not exist? ---christan on 2/14/12


JOB IS DEAD AND AWAITING THE RESURRECTION

Even If Job died, and worms ate his body ( whcih is where he is now) yet with his eyes he expects to see his redeemer who will stand on the earth IN THE LAST DAYS

Not in spirit or in soul
But with his own eyes, which he will receive in his ressurected body, will he see his redeemer

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at THE LAST DAY.
---francis on 2/14/12


"Not in spirit or in soul, but with his own two flesh eyes did he expect to see Jesus." francis

Wow! Your gospel is really a script from the Twilight Zone. Just like that show, it's fiction personified. You saying he will be raised in the flesh and blood? Given you are right (and I'm sure you're not), where's he now for the time being since his soul and spirit does not exist? UNBELIEVABLE!

Job proclaimed by Faith, "Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another, though my reins be consumed within me." he's clearly speaking about the glorification of his soul and spirit in the Lord's Day.

Tell us the truth, you're taking bible studies from ET, right?
---christan on 2/14/12


Like a Shakespearan play or a Greek Trajedy, God wants us to understand that it is the "Inner Man" that is precious to Him, not books, buildings, protocol, or partisan obedience (prudishness).

God's will is that human beings BE STRENGTHENED by becoming holy.

Ephesians 3:16 "be strengthened with might".

Romans 1:4 "Spirit of holiness".

The sermon that Jesus gave was about the beautiful attitudes of peace that a genuinely holy person should have.

The words of God's double edged "sword" ("sword of the spirit") distinctively define (as a dichotomy...."discern") between the two meanings of what a "SOUL" is and what a "spirit" is.
---more_excellent_way on 2/14/12


"Where does our soul dwell until the resurrection The believer rest in Jesus.
"But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. Knowing that He which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus." The term sleep is used metaphorically because as one who has fallen into a deep restful sleep, rest unaware of any passage of time. Without thought, desire, plans, or dreams, so does the dead. Yet because of Jesus, whether wake or sleep we live in our unity with Him.
---joseph on 2/14/12


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1st cliff, The spirit brings the movement, and cognition comes through sensation. The "dianoias" is the internal animating activity, the conscience. There are varying levels of thinking, some are sensitive through praying, and some people's senses are dull or become seared to even beastial through nonpraying.
---Eloy on 2/13/12


Paul speaks of those who "sleep in Jesus", in 1 Thessalonians 4:14. So, if our souls are "in Jesus", where we are is "in Jesus", in any case.
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/13/12


Eloy, If we are made up of 3 different parts, which part does the thinking? Soul,Spirit or body?
---1st_cliff on 2/13/12


Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet IN MY FLESH shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another, though my reins be consumed within me.

JOB EXPECTED TO DIE, HAVE HIS FLESH ROT, AND SEE HIS REDEEMER IN THE LAST DAY.

Not in spirit or in soul, but with his own two flesh eyes did he expect to see Jesus
---francis on 2/13/12


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The soul is not the mind, and the soul is not the spirit, they are separate. Each person is made up of a body which is the building or flesh, a spirit which is the breath or aspiration, and a soul which is the life or anima. The soul can be living or dead. When one dies the spirit leaves the body and soul, and goes back to God. The body and soul remain behind on earth, until that time that the Lord will call for the dead to rise. (Mark 12:30, Acts 17:25, I Thessalonians 5:23, Hebrews 4:12).
Many times in scripture, the word "soul" is synonymous with the word "life". "Then Yhwh God shaped man, even the soil of the ground, and breathed into his face the breath of life. So man was made a living soul." Genesis 2:7.
---Eloy on 2/13/12


"BODY of DUST"???

You quote Scripture before us and your interpretation is in contradiction. There was no "BODY of DUST". There was just dust! It was God who "formed man of the dust of the ground". You can't even say God formed the man out of dust.

Paul clearly teaches us that the man God created has three parts (aka tripartite) - the body, soul and spirit. The earthly body perishes but not the soul and spirit. For Paul said, "and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." In eternal life, the saint will have a "new body" with his soul and spirit. The same goes for those in eternal death.
---christan on 2/13/12


At death the body returns to dust and the spirit of life returns to te Creator. What about the soul, IT CEASES TO
EXIST!
---Pierre on 2/13/12


The answer to your question is not left unattended by the Holy Bible. You simply have to go to Luke 16:20-31 and read it for yourself. As to whether you belief it, it's up to God to open your heart or not.

Be warned that there are those who vehemently reject that the soul does not exist after life on earth. We know of the very cult that's of this persuasion. And I'm sure you will know too.

May God be merciful and gracious to open your heart to the understanding of His Word. Peace unto you.
---christan on 2/13/12


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FIRST define soul , then give a biblical reference for our definition

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

BODY of DUST + BREATH OF GOD and Adam became a living soul / living being or soul

Adam was not given a soul, he became a soul. He became a soul when he received THE BREATH OF GOD

BODY + BREATH OF GOD = SOUL

so what happens at death
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

BREATH OF LIFE goes back to God who gave it, the body returns to dust, NO MORE SOUL

BODY- BREATH OF LIFE= DEATH
---francis on 2/13/12


I don't know where YOU live. You ARE your soul. Your soul is not a spook that drifts away at death. The soul is made up of two parts - the dust of the earth and the breath of God (the life force). When one dies, the soul ceases to exist. But, God remembers how to recreate you - even better!


---jerry6593 on 2/13/12


When we are alive our soul lives in our earthly body, when we die our soul returns to Heaven in our heavenly body 1CO.15:44
---Clarence on 2/12/12


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