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Is Faith Needed For Salvation

To quote a blogger, "God Gift and what HE gives us is eternal life, through Jesus Christ... not faith."

Didn't Scripture teach us that only through Faith in Christ is what saves the sinner?

Which is which?

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 ---christan on 2/14/12
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Craig, here's what you said,

"He has already declared his disgust in such a "weak and powerless" god that would give his creations the power to choose whether or not they wanted a relationship with him"

I'm disgusted at what you and others say about a Holy and Righteous God. You make stupid comments call yourselves Christians, and don't depend on God for everything, you are hypocrites. You want to manipulate God. Your whole conversion is false. Yet, all of you pray and ask God to save your families. Why? Because you know that only God can change their hearts and bring them to Christ. Otherwise you would never pray to God. Here you speak lies, but on your knees you know who has the power to save.

---Mark_V. on 2/20/12


Jack,
you're right about bringing up old posts, but I can't help myself :-)

Craig,
right on, we should pray without ceasing.

I once asked an opponent during a debate "are you trying to convince me, or yourself?"

I honestly think that Christan is trying to convince himself. I used to follow after the likes of Sproul, Mac, Piper, and the Westminster Confession.

So I understand how fragile the faith is. And the more forcefully he can try to cram that nonsense down another's throat, the closer he can be to convincing himself that it's true.

I used to believe everything he screams at people. And I made all the same insults. Shame on me.
---James_L on 2/19/12


Hey guys God Bless, I know that God says in his word that faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God .
I see that it is a gift because we have recieved of his word I do believe that once the gospel is preached it enlightens people to Gods TRUTH and therefore causes them to make a decision .With out getting to deep I believe calvin is right on certain points and also arminean view is also correct, salvation is surely given by the Lord .Food for thought why would God want a bunch of robots that are forced to love him where is the Glory in that but rather he manifest his love toward us first and we responde .God gives the first commandement only because he also loved the world and gave his son Jesus Christ our love MUST be willing
---JoeJ on 2/19/12


The only "choice" is whether we will consider that which can convince us.
---James_L on 2/19/12


EXACTLY!! Thank you for finding the words I couldnt.
---JackB on 2/19/12


Mark V,
No sir, I did not argue for man's "free will" to believe the gospel

The Holy Spirit enlightens us to the gospel.

"come take the water of life freely" Jesus said

"Taste the good word of God" (Hebrews 6:5)

The Holy Spirit is convicting the WHOLE WORLD of sin and righteousness (John 16:8)

That doesn't mean we choose what we believe, it means that God convinces us, like Abraham (Rom 4:21-25)

The only "choice" is whether we will consider that which can convince us.
---James_L on 2/19/12




Jack, when someone gives the Truth, as I do many times, I know for a fact that not everyone will believe what I put down. I understand that before I sent it. But I have been here long enough to know most everyone here know resents me, and wake up with evil in their hearts and follows me on every blog and who doesn't care about the real Truth. I see more respect from athiest then from those who claim they are saved. ---Mark_V. on 2/17/12

How many times the word "I" and "me" are used in the above post is a clear indication of who is full of "I". Nine times: the number of fullness and birthing.
---blogger1127 on 2/19/12


\\Wow! God has to convince you to believe Him? Really? Is...Agrippa your only defense about having to be "convinced"? Seriously?\\
---christan on 2/18/12

Yes, Christan. SERIOUSLY !!

and No, Agrippa was not the only one

"peitho" - to persuade another to receive a belief, meaning to convince

Acts 17:4 "and some of them WERE PERSUADED (epeisthesan) and joined Paul and Silas"

Acts 18:4 "and he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and TRYING TO PERSUADE (epeithen) Jews and Greeks"

Acts 28:23-24 "Paul was...TRYING TO CONVINCE (peithon) them concerning Jesus...some WERE PERSUADED (epeithonto) while others WOULD NOT BELIEVE"

got it ???
---James_L on 2/19/12


\\Salvation is 100% God's work. You think too highly of yourself...\\
---christan on 2/18/12

I don't think you understand what it means to be convinced.

Are you proud of yourself for being convinced that 2+2=4? Can you "decide" to believe it? NO. But you can choose not to count your fingers. Then, you would never be convinced.

Do you take credit for being convinced that the earth is round?

Nobody Ever Believed Anything Because Of Something Within Themselves.

We become convinced because someone else took the effort to teach us something.

Without God working in us to enlighten us, NOBODY would ever believe the gospel. But some refuse.
---James_L on 2/19/12


James you might as well let it go. He has already declared his disgust in such a "weak and powerless" god that would give his creations the power to choose whether or not they wanted a relationship with him.

God is simply giving them what they desire.... a life without that "weak and powerless" god. Pray pray pray for them!
---CraigA on 2/19/12


Careful James. They hate it when you prove them a liar by bringing up old posts :D
---JackB on 2/19/12




"Scripture NEVER hints at the notion that man has the ability to CHOOSE to believe something. We must be CONVINCED." James_L

Wow! God has to convince you to believe Him? Really? Is the account in Acts about Agrippa your only defense about having to be "convinced"? Seriously?

Last I read about salvation, Paul eloquently declared, "for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth", meaning when the sinner believes in God for salvation, it's because God has worked His power in him to turn him from an unbeliever to a believer.

Salvation is 100% God's work. You think too highly of yourself that's made of dust that God has to convince you to believe in Him.
---christan on 2/18/12


Christan,
Where did you call yourself a Calvinist? In the "Christ's Death At Calvary" blog


\\From your mouth you speak like a Calvinist, but from your heart you're a real true blue Arminian....when one rejects Christ, it is simply because God has not worked His mercy and grace in the sinner to believe in Him....Why do you write it like it really depends on the man and not God? Simple, you're an Arminian.\\
---christan on 2/11/12


You contrasted Calvinist and Arminian, and in that context you put yourself squarely on the side of the Calvinists.

So don't try to back off of that now, the other thread is still there for others to read
---James_L on 2/19/12


Jn 3:16 "Pas" means all/ every individual. Witnessed by His Word
[adam H:120 made from adamah H:127]--Mankind. Gen 1:26 And Elohiym said let Us make man [H:120] in [Our image, after Our likeness], 27, Elohiym-bara/fatten-[adam-man]

The spirit/breath comes from who gave it---Elohyim. The Spirit' is 'HaRuach-The Breath' is 'HaNeshemah'
Job 33:4, 34:14.
All souls are His Because [He exist] creator.
Their origin is from Him---He is the [head].
He is Timeless, His season are cyclical- not linear. Born again idiom, means born from of top
[being the top of the body] the understanding of seasons in cycles is not a linear again but a cyclical, returning again.
Back: only through repentance unto [re-mission]
---char on 2/19/12


//The lost do not hear for they are not of God// -----Mark V. on 2/17/12

Mt 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Off the mark [lost]? Repent.
Praise God------Repentance bring Remission [back on the path]
Ez 18:1-5
Jn 8:51 "Veily, verily, I say unto you, (If) a man keep My saying, he shall never see death."--Does not say If the chosen or the elect keep my saying.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:18 Iota-tittle [Hebrew Letter]
Word of God down to each letter Aleph to Tav.
---char on 2/19/12


James L, I have never called myself a Calvinist either. I too am a Christain and what I give you is from Scripture and even write it down for you.
I know you know the Truth, because you just told the Truth but contradicted yourself. You argue for mens free will and then say,

"Scripture NEVER hints at the notion that man has the ability to CHOOSE to believe something. We must be CONVINCED. That's what the Holy Spirit does through the gospel."

You know it takes for the Holy Spirit to convince the sinner of Christ through the Gospel. Doesn't that mean that He does not convince everyone, since many have gone to hell and heard the Gospel?
---Mark_V. on 2/19/12


Usually those that have a problem with the view that God is soveriegn are quick to label others as being Calvinists. The detest the ideal found in Romans 9 that man is the clay and God is the potter, that God rules over the world and determines events from start to finish.

But if Scripture agrees with what Calvin held to be true, then is one a Calvinists or simply a believer in the truth of Scripture?

Probably no one today finds themselves in totally agreement with the Westminister Confessions as it has been modified over the centuries. The WCF no longer holds that the Pope is the anti-Christ or that government has to subscribe to Christian ideals.
---lee1538 on 2/19/12


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I Tim 3:16 without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed in the world, received up into glory."
I Tim 4:1
I Tim 4:10 therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the [Savior of all men]-[ specially of those that believe]

[Savior of all men]--anthropos=an individual of the Genus Home, a human being as distinct from animals.
[ specially] malista = superior, greatest degree, particularly, chiefly, most of all
[those that believe] = pistos-faithful

God is True - just and fair.
Savior of [adam of adamah]-mankind
Son's seed through The man called Adam.
---char on 2/19/12


James_L, when did I call myself a Calvinist? I AM A CHRISTIAN! It's people like you who label my belief as such. And why should I submit to the Westminster Confession when I have the Holy Bible? Where's your allegiance if you claim to be a Christian? To what is written in the Holy Bible or the Westminster Confession? That's why I say it's unscriptural.

Speaking for myself, the Holy Bible does not tell us to submit to anyone but Jesus Christ, period. And just because I show you Scriptures that contradict your understanding and believe, you pull out the Westminster Confession on me? Good try. Next time round, try using the Holy Bible if I have spoken untruth.
---christan on 2/18/12


\\Where's your "free-will doctrine" support from Scripture?\\
---christan on 2/17/12

As I have stated before, you are accusing me falsely.

Whether "they" think that man chooses Christ in an unregenerate state, or "you" believe that God regenerates a man before he chooses Christ, BOTH SIDES of your debate are wrong.

"salvation" is a matter of believing a promise (Rom 4:21-25) fulifilled in Christ

Scripture NEVER hints at the notion that man has the ability to CHOOSE to believe something. We must be CONVINCED. That's what the Holy Spirit does through the gospel.

Herod Agrippa said he was almost PERSUADED (Acts 26:28)
---James_L on 2/18/12


There most important thing a soul can do to come to a knowledge of the saving grace of God is demonstrated on the cross through Christ. Understanding the revelation of the mystery is the message through which souls are saved. Ignorance of dispensational right division is risking eternal damnation.

No where else in scripture do we find the gospel (1Cor. 15:1-4) for today, the gospel of the grace of God, other than in the revelation of God to our dispensational pattern. Through Paul, Jesus revealed the meaning and the purpose of his shed blood for all men. Not of works, but by faith we are justified by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
---michael_e on 2/18/12


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MarkV, your arrogance knows no ends. Let ME tell YOU what I think .That ok?

I reject your "Truth" because it goes against the very nature of God as HE DEFINES HIMSELF IN SCRIPTURE and accuses him of unspeakable things which He says He does not delight in and does NOT do!

And yes sir you CAN harm the lost by telling them lies that harden their heart to the very Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who died for their sins and wants to give them new life. How dare you dare put the thought in a mans head that Christ didnt die for him when scripture says He did! That is the working of satan! Yes I said it! Satan! If I were you I would be worried about my OWN salvation at this moment and forget about "teaching" others.
---JackB on 2/18/12


John Calvin:

"Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and in the goodness of God is offered unto all men without distinction, His blood being shed not for a part of the world only, but for the whole human race, for although in the world nothing is found worthy of the favor of God, yet He holds out the propitiation to the whole world, since without exception He summons all to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than the door unto hope"

I dont know where some of you "Calvinists" get your beliefs, but they certainly arent that of John Calvin.
---Blogger9680 on 2/18/12


Jack, how can anyone damage the lost? They are lost already. What troubles you is that when the Truth is given to you, it hurts you. You reject the Truth so hard, because you don't want to hear about how God grace saved us, you want to speak for man so bad, that when you answer you resort to the evil within you, sin.
I have been in groups at work and when the Truth is given they walk out. They also don't want to hear the Truth, it finds them guilty. And they don't like that. But you are worse then them, they at least walk out, you on the other hand resort to the sin within you, in the flesh, they don't, and you are suppose to be a Christian.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/12


Eloy, you contradict yourself again. "First you say that by works a person is justified," and then turn around and say, "For as the body without the spirit is dead" So if the body without the Spirit is dead, how can he have faith? How can he do all those works to be justified? How can he believe while dead?
Your explanations are useless and the two rebirths.
---Mark_V. on 2/17/12


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The word "Whosoever" found in (John 3:16) is "Pas" means "every" "all" it can mean the individual within the totality and the totality of individuals. "Therefore, "anyone and everyone" who hears and believes has eternal life" And who are the ones who hear Jesus words? Jesus said,
"He who is of God hears God's words, therefore you do not hear because you are not of God" Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life"
John 3:16 is saying only those who can hear God and believe have everlasting life. The lost do not hear for they are not of God.
---Mark_V. on 2/17/12


I see more respect from athiest then from those who claim they are saved.
---Mark_V. on 2/17/12


Naturally.
Atheist doesn't know the severity of the damage you are doing to the lost on this website with a bad doctrine because he is currently an unbeliever, as all of us once were. If we see you pushing him and others away with this twisted doctrine, we WILL fight against it! Count on it! It is our duty to do so as children of God.

If you see this as us "waking up with evil in our hearts" or somehow disrespecting you because we resist your teachings then my heart honestly aches for you. Sometimes I fear that the LOVE of Christ has never touched your heart because of the things you think God is capable of.
---JackB on 2/17/12


Mark V,
what has happened to me? Nothing. You seem shocked at my tone toward Christan, but...

It makes me sick to see an ingorant little punk running around charging people with heresy, paganism, works mongering, trying to save themselves, etc when he doesn't understand a lick of scripture or church history, and engages in hypocrisy.

Calling himself a Calvinist, yet says the Westminster Confession is unscriptural?

Calling an ichthus "pagan" - that one almost takes the cake

there are many more

I'll keep my tone with him until he changes or goes away. I'll also keep highlighting his inconsistencies
---James_L on 2/17/12


"yet never providing anything even approaching word-for-word to match his schizophrenic doctrine." James_L

Again, man has NO "free-will". "Who then can be saved? But Jesus looked at them and said to them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthe 19:25,26

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:44,65

I have supported my "schizophrenic doctrine", with Scriptures. Where's your "free-will doctrine" support from Scripture?
---christan on 2/17/12


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The Scriptures say in HEBREWS 11:6 that without Faith it is impossible to please GOD. HEBREWS 11 shows us how important Faith is to GOD. So, YES. We must have Faith to be saved. It's not that it's OUR Faith that saves us, but, rather, it's BY our Faith do we receive the Salvation of GOD through YAHUSHUA (JESUS CHRIST).
---Gordon on 2/17/12


Hi to you all yes faith is required in salvation, first what is faith ? faith is an unshakeable confidence in the yet unseen reality of the invisible world So faith means our movement towards God. faith in gods ability and plan for salvation.we can have faith in what the natural senses say our put our faith in the word of God we walk by faith and not by sight, nowhere in the bible has God asked us to rely on our natural sight, The holy Spirit was given for us to see what God is looking at .when you step into faith you operate in the dimension in which God operates . lee

---lee on 2/17/12


"Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Who so ever...
Amen.
---char on 2/17/12"
Amen.
---Chria9396 on 2/17/12


James, what happened to you? You use to come out with the Sword, the word of God and you would explain your passages for the glory of God. Lately you have stopped doing that. Now you get angry and resentful, and don't explain your passages.

Jack, when someone gives the Truth, as I do many times, I know for a fact that not everyone will believe what I put down. I understand that before I sent it. But I have been here long enough to know most everyone here know resents me, and wake up with evil in their hearts and follows me on every blog and who doesn't care about the real Truth. I see more respect from athiest then from those who claim they are saved.
---Mark_V. on 2/17/12


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"Impossible to please without faith: for one that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. But be you all doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Evenso faith if it has not works is dead, being alone. You all see then how that by works a person is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead." Hb.11:6+ Jms.1:22+ 2:17,24,26.
---Eloy on 2/17/12


For the record...

//Eternal life AND faith are from God
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of God
If you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you WILL BE SAVED.
The promise comes by FAITH, so that it may be by GRACE
By grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
Who then can be saved? With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
---Chria9396 on 2/14/12//---Amen.
Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Who so ever...
Amen.
---char on 2/17/12


JackB,
I really wasn't wanting to go there. But Christan is the epitome of a hypocrite. Scripturally and historically ignorant, setting himself up as a teacher...
actually has the audacity to argue that an ichthus was pagan in origin

Demanding from his opponents a word-for-word scripture quotation to match their thoughts, yet never providing anything even approaching word-for-word to match his schizophrenic doctrine

like Blogger9680 said, he twists Calvin's and Jesus' words

honestly, he ought to feel embarrased by his foolishness
---James_L on 2/17/12


Dead faith saves no one. Even the devil believes and is not save because his faith is dead, it has no power of life. Saving faith is the only faith that saves and it comes from God as a gift and brings eternal life, because that faith is seeded in Christ who lives in us.
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, "if it were possible" they shall deceive the very elect"
They will deceive many, but never the elect, for they are chosen by God. They have true saving faith in the real Christ, "For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." The rest were appointed to wrath.
---Mark_V. on 2/17/12


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Ouch JamesL

I really wasnt expecting that lol.

It needed to be said though.
---JackB on 2/17/12


Christan, how can you call yourself a Calvinist when you dont even know what Calvin wrote?

It seems you have twisted even Calvins words in addition to Christs words to come up with your own religion.
---Blogger9680 on 2/17/12


James_L, that's because my submission is to God, not some unscriptural "sacred Westminister Confession".

Just because you say "If someone believes in Christ he IS saved" doesn't make that someone saved according to Christ. And if it was so simple as how you say it, then Jesus won't be telling us,

"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
---christan on 2/17/12


Christan,
I suppose you don't read and comprehend too well. Could you

!! PLEASE !!

copy and paste anything I've written that advocated "free will" concerning "salvation"

Or, simply shut up.

I see you didn't respond to my quotation of the sacred Westminster Confession saying that the end of your works is eternal life. And I'm guessing you won't, either.

It's not my fault that your "doctrine" has more holes in it than swiss cheese.


You need to study the BIBLE, and not the vain philosophy of works mongers. Those sneaky Protestants, they've even deceived the "elect" or whatever you're calling yourselves these days
---James_L on 2/16/12


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"Dead faith IS saving faith. If someone believes in Christ he IS saved, whether his faith is dead or alive." James_L

Another one from the books of the "free-willers" - "Dead faith IS saving faith." It just gets better and better, closer and closer to the broad gate.

So, tell us, is the "dead faith" of yours manufactured from within yourself and activited by your "free-will"? If yes, then that is "dead faith", which by the way is definitely not going to get you justified by God.

Why? Because God only justifies those whom He has given His gift of Faith to. In other words, Saving Faith is from without the sinner.
---christan on 2/16/12


Scott1 and Christian, you both are correct.

A perfect example is the Word Of Faith Movement, and TBN and Daystar Television Networks. You notice they all say the are FAITH BASED, but they have a distorted and perverted faith.
---Rob on 2/16/12


\\obviously they have no idea between what is dead faith and saving Faith.\\
---christan on 2/16/12

What's obvious is that you are oblivious.

Dead faith IS saving faith. If someone believes in Christ he IS saved, whether his faith is dead or alive.

Or do you want to go down the works-monger trail by saying that faith isn't enough? Need some works to validate your faith? Let's hear it from your WCF

XVI.II
These good works...having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life.

WHAT ! ? !
The WCF teaches that the end of your good works is eternal life ????

What gives ???
---James_L on 2/16/12


---christian
then obviously they have no idea between what is dead faith and saving Faith.

my point exactly. You are full of faith everyone is. But where do you put it.
---Scott1 on 2/16/12


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If one thinks that their "faith" can be in anything, sports teams, relationships and work, etc and still use this "faith" of theirs to belief in Jesus Christ, then obviously they have no idea between what is dead faith and saving Faith.

The Faith that God freely and graciously gives to His elect is meant solely for salvation in Jesus Christ. And nothing else. This is how ignoramus people are to the Faith taught in the Holy Bible as compared to the "faith" they have in chairs and taxmen.
---christan on 2/16/12


Barb 2: Every parable has an answer within the parable, we do not have to make one up. In most of them it is found at the end of the parable. There is only one parable where the person is named. It is the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus. Clearly not the Lazarus in John 11 (who died at a later time). This beggar was the only character in any of Jesus parables ever given a name. Some people therefore have speculated that this was no imaginary story, but an actual incident that really took place, either way, Christ employs it in the same fashion as all His parables, To teach a lesson.
---Mark_V. on 2/16/12


Barb, a parable means "to throw alongside" So a parable is something placed alongside something else for the purpose of comparison. First the story is given, then the comparison. Example Jesus could have said,
"You should be persistent in your prayer life" a statement that the hears would probably forget. Instead He told them the parable story of the women and the judge. After the story He gives the answer (the comparison) That God, who always does right and is filled with compassion for believers who suffer, will certainly respond to them who cry for His help in prayer (v.7).
There was never 10 virgins, it was a parable. Answer? To be ready for Christ, when He comes, if not, theres no second chances.
---Mark_V. on 2/16/12


barb....I believe the wise bridesmaids are as you said. They had their hearts prepared, but i believe the foolish ones were simply pretenders. They looked the same as the wise bridesmaids, but something was lacking. They lacked Faith and thought they were prepared for His coming. Their hearts were not prepared.
---JIM on 2/16/12


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"Faith is what you believe in." Scott1

I can have faith in anything. Faith in a sports team, relationships, works, etc. What God says is have faith in Me because "I am the way, truth and the life..."
---Scott1 on 2/16/12


Heaven be likened!
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil, for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered, saying, Not so, lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

The foolish said lord, lord open!
1Co_3:18!

Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Mar 4:13
Peace
---TheSeg on 2/15/12


"If you believe the Bible is 100% true, than you don't need faith because according to you, the bible has no doubt to it and therefore doesn't require faith." Jason Varner

Obviously, you're 100% wrong or should we say an unbeliever. The difference standing between someone who believe the Holy Bible to let's say, someone like you, is FAITH. You're a living prove of what an unbeliever will say who does not understand or believe what Faith from God does.

Notice I said, Faith from God. For there are many who say they have faith but never said it was a gift from God to begin with. They are in the same brewing cauldron with you.

And if speaking the Truth about a lie is argument to you, I rest my case about Faith.
---christan on 2/15/12


Jim, I don't see how I am off track in regard to the parable about the 10 bridemaids. After He teaches the lesson in Matt 25:13 Jesus gives a warning to watch because we know not the day or hour of His return so there must still be time for us to make sure we have enough oil.

Jesus is judging the 10 and He finds 5 ready and prepared by the Holy Spirit and 5 who had faith that they were ready and faith that they have everything they need but Jesus says He doesn't know them.

The story about the thief on the cross was told only in Luke's gospel. Anyway, if as you say I am off track about the 10 virgins parable then how come you think grace or faith would help the thief but not the bridemaids at the last moment?
---barb on 2/15/12


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"Faith is what you believe in." Scott1

Say what? Jesus Christ is who a Christian will believe in for salvation, and not Faith. How does one believe in Faith?

Paul teaches that it is through Faith in Christ that the sinner is saved. This "saving Faith" that Paul speaks about is a "gift from God", meaning no one can work or boast to anyone that he received this gift of Faith by being obedient to God or have done something that pleased God that he is rewarded with Faith. It is by grace, nothing good you have done.

True Faith (which is a gift from God) is what saves the sinner. It comes with knowledge, conviction and trust in God through His Holy Spirit.
---christan on 2/15/12


It is funny that faith IS required. You know why? Because there is an unknown aspect to the bible that you have to believe in because there is not proof.

Think if there was. Then arguing about religion would be like arguing if the Earth is round or not.

If you believe the Bible is 100% true, than you don't need faith because according to you, the bible has no doubt to it and therefore doesn't require faith. It is just truth as it is true you have to breath in order to live. Which idea is right or wrong? There is no ultimate answer, just ideas.
---Jason_Varner on 2/15/12


barb...you are way off track on the parable of the 10 virgins or bridesmaids. That parable refers to the end times. Please start at the end of Matthew 24. It relates to the second coming of Christ. It's all about being indwelled with the Holy Spirit.
The thief on the cross...what teachings was he following. I see plenty of Gods Grace there. You don't?
---JIM on 2/15/12


"If I do not have faith that the chair will hold me then I will not sit in the chair. If I do not have faith in Jesus's sacrifice why would I place my salvation in him." Scott1

Faith in a chair to Faith in Jesus Christ is similar? Seriously? What were you thinking when you decided to come up comparing a chair to Jesus Christ? Reminds me of one particular blog when someone compared his faith in a TAXMAN similar to Jesus Christ.

You don't need faith to sit on a chair. It's the first thing you would look for when you're tired. And if there's none around, I'm sure you'll settle to sitting on the floor. But seriously, a chair or a Taxman being compared to Jesus Christ who gave His life up for the sins of His people?
---christan on 2/15/12


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Barb, you said,

"Where is grace for the five foolish virgins? Why does Jesus tell them that He does not know them? They were in the Kingdom with the 5 wise virgins so what is it that the wise have and the foolish do not? Matt 25:1-14."

I don't know what virgins were in the kingdom from the parable. Never heard of that. Second, are you suggesting that a person has to be wise in order to be saved? That is what you imply by your last sentence.
Do you know why Jesus said I never knew you? Because they were never His. No matter their deeds.
---Mark_V. on 2/15/12


barb...Those who Christ sayed "I never knew you" where nothing but false deciples.
A true follower of Christ produces good fruit. To be a follower of Christ takes Faith. Without Faith it is impossible to please God.
Everything stems from Faith.
---JIM on 2/15/12


Yes its faith and faith alone.
What can you do without faith?
Even James said I will shew thee my faith by my works.
He is not showing you, works. Its not Ill show you my works!
Look at the faith you say you have is this faith really from you?
No right, it is God who made you a believer by the things he did.
Before you were even born! He came to you, you didnt go to him.

You know what gets me about most of you, who say I have faith?
The things you say to the ones, who say, I dont believe or even deny God.
Sorry, but it seems you are denying the very gift of God he gave.
Peace
---TheSeg on 2/15/12


Ruben//It Faith and works, not faith and then comes works.

Ruben...it is a comment like that, that has me wandering if you actually know what faith is and what it produces.
---JIM on 2/15/12


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Faith is what you believe in. If you do not have faith in something you will not do it. For example the chair I am sitting in. If I do not have faith that the chair will hold me then I will not sit in the chair. If I do not have faith in Jesus's sacrifice why would I place my salvation in him.
---Scott1 on 2/15/12


Good post, Rhonda.

Where is grace for the five foolish virgins? Why does Jesus tell them that He does not know them? They were in the Kingdom with the 5 wise virgins so what is it that the wise have and the foolish do not? Matt 25:1-14.

And what about those who have prophesied, cast out devils and done many wonderful works in the name of Jesus Christ? Matt 7:21-23. Why does Jesus tell them He NEVER knew them and that they are sinners. Then Jesus goes on to tell them that whoever hears His teachings and does them will be a wise man. Where is grace here?

If we are not following the Lamb but are following someone else we are being led astray. John 10:1-5 and John 10:25-30.
---barb on 2/15/12


well god gave us the gift of salvation to all that believe in our lord Christ by faith if that answers any thing.
---curtis on 2/15/12


Ruben, arminian believes taught in the Catholic church continues to keep many blind to the Truth. One of the greatest mistakes is failure to recognize the necessity for the Supernatural work of the Holy Spirit on the heart. It has insisted upon "free will" which many other denominations are now teaching. Born again is not even taught. In their fallen condition they can come and go as they wish. Do certain riduals and, they are clean again, and if they die in sin, purgatory takes care of that. Mostly no one is born of the Spirit. No need to. But the Scriptures pointedly teach that the pre-requisite for entrance into the kingdom of God is a radical transformation wrought by the Holy Spirit of God Himself. But they don't teach that.
---Mark_V. on 2/15/12


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Ruben..I knew you would throw that verse out. Works is a offshoot of true Faith. If your counting on your works for salvation, let me know when you think you have done enough.
---JIM on 2/14/12


What scripture says that works is offshoot of true faith. About the scripture verse I gave, I guess you had no answer for it. How many works do you have to make, Jesus does not say but what he does tells us is:

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done

He also said in the same gospel Matthew 24:13 " Those who endure till the end will be saved"

It Faith and works, not faith and then comes works.
---Ruben on 2/14/12


"Gods gift does not save, faith does not save, works do not save, and grace does not save..." Rhonda

"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." In one breath you're calling Paul and God a liar. You hate the idea that salvation by God is 100% grace.

JIM's right when he said the good works the Christian does is prove of his salvation, v10 tells us "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

And when someone uses James 2:24, please relate it to Ephesians 2:8-10. Unless you're a works monger.
---christan on 2/14/12


Ruben..Somehow i knew you would throw that verse out. Works is a offshoot of true Faith. If your counting on your works for salvation, let me know when you think you have done enough.
---JIM on 2/14/12


Rhonda...You are so lost.
---JIM on 2/14/12


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Eternal life AND faith are from God
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of God
If you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you WILL BE SAVED.
The promise comes by FAITH, so that it may be by GRACE
By grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
Who then can be saved? With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
---Chria9396 on 2/14/12


We Have faith in His ability without faith it is impossible to please him .faith is unshakable confidence the yet unseen reality of the unseen realm the ultimate conclusion where satan was defeated by faith we believe Jesus died for us and recreated us in His image with out this unshakable confidence which is another word for faith we wouldn't come to Him , so faith means our movement towards God God
---lee_holloway on 2/14/12


We Have faith in His ability without faith it is impossible to please him .faith is unshakable confidence the yet unseen reality of the unseen realm the ultimate conclusion where satan was defeated by faith we believe Jesus died for us and recreated us in His image with out this unshakable confidence which is another word for faith we wouldn't come to Him , so faith means our movement towards God God
---lee_holloway on 2/14/12


Heb 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for

Gods gift does not save, faith does not save, works do not save, and grace does not save ...the real issue is about those who follow false ministers who teach a-la-carte-christianity in which they take ONE VERSE and make it their mantra and exclude hundreds of other verses in effect making their mantra a LIE

when one properly understands the teaching of salvation one must look to the hundreds of verses Christ and Apostles spoke about in relation to one's salvation which INCLUDE faith works grace

salvation is NOT a one-verse-wonder
---Rhonda on 2/14/12


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Ruben...What can you add to Faith?
---JIM on 2/14/12

Jim,

It is not add but and/both!

There is only one scripture verse that has faith alone, it is in James 2:24 " You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
---Ruben on 2/14/12


Ruben...What can you add to Faith?
---JIM on 2/14/12


Where does scripture tell us Faith alone?
---Ruben on 2/14/12


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