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Churches Without A Cross

I recently became aware of a trend in most churches that do not display the cross, even though the bible clearly states the blessings of the cross. Why is that?

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James L, there is only one side to this issue. The two theologies conceive the plan of God in quite different terms. And that goes for all Christianity. One makes salvation depend on the work of a Triune God, the Father electing, the Son fulfilling the Father's will by redeeming, and the Spirit executing the purpose of the Father and Son by renewing. The other on a work of man: One regards faith as part of God's gift of salvation, the other as man's own contribution to salvation, One gives all the glory of saving believers to God, the other divides the praise between God and their own works. The majority of church's are in apostasy, because almost all Christian Churches teach free will of man. The road that leads to destruction is wide.
---Mark_V. on 2/22/12


"For the word of the cross to those perishing is foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is power of God. I am cucified with Christ, nevertheless I live: yet not I but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son from God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. If any desire to come after me, let that one deny themself, and take up their cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever desires to save their life will lose it: but whosoever loses their life for my sake, the same will save it. And whosoever does not bear their cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple." I Corinthians 1:18+ Galatians 2:20+ Luke 9:23,24+ 14:27.
---Eloy on 2/22/12


Warwick:

You said: you say you treat evolution as a possibility. God's word does not allow it as a possibility.

No. You merely conclude God's word does not allow it.

that these are 6 ordinary 24hr days, as man lives is confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11.

No, Genesis chapter 1 does NOT say these are "ordinary 24 hour days". Biblical days always start evening, yet what does "evening" MEAN without a sun? You ASSUME they were 24 hours long, but the Bible never says this explicitly, nor does it necessarily imply it.

Also, Exodus 20:8-11 speaks day order (i.e. it mentions the sabbath), but contrary to your constantly claiming that this defines how long days are, it does not do so.
---StrongAxe on 2/22/12


Jack, you have no idea what an explicit statement is? And what an implicit statement is? What we've given you of God are explicit statements of who He is, and what Christ says. They do not imply anything, they are explicit truths. Implicit statements or not alway truths. When God speaks and He says who He is, it is Truth and a fact. When you and others read it, you just reject it. Never saying why the explicit statment is wrong. Only that our interpretation is wrong. When you give answers, they are always implicit ones, something that seems to say something, but not fact. Before you laugh your way to hell, you need to get your hermenuitics correct, if you really love the Lord and depend on Him for everything, if not, there is no hope for you.
---Mark_V. on 2/22/12


Christan, I am on the side of God - not Arminius or Calvin.

When He says He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked and does not tempt men with sin, I believe him. I don't reason that He sets aside half the human race and blinds them to Christ so He can torture them in hell for eternity.

Science has theories that are accepted as fact without enough evidence. Your doctrine is a good theory but there is not enough evidence (without speculation) to make it absolute fact. Why not remain humble and just say it is what YOU believe instead of judging other who disagree.
Is it more important to have a perfect doctrine or to love people the way Jesus Christ did?

Mercy not sacrifice
---JackB on 2/21/12




StrongAxe, you say you treat evolution as a possibility. God's word does not allow it as a possibility. You therefore do not accept what Genesis says.

Genesis ch. 1 says God created in 6 days and that these are 6 ordinary 24hr days, as man lives is confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11. But you do not have the faith to believe this.

If you allow for the possibility for evolution you may also allow that Adam was the first human, evolved from nonHumans. But God says He created Adam from the earth, in His image, not from any preexisting creature.

I think some investigation would show you reject other parts of Genesis as written. What about the Fossil Record for example, where does it fit into Genesis?
---Warwick on 2/21/12


\\You gather that I am a Calvinist? What a moronic understanding you have...\\
---christan on 2/20/12

\\Calvinism and Arminianism is contrary to each other....It's either you are for Christ or against Him.\\
---christan on 2/21/12


So which one is for Christ, and which one is against Him? Since you have adamantly deinied that you are a Calvinist, should we assume that you have embraced Arminianism?

Or are you afraid to make the "good confession" ?
---James_L on 2/21/12


amen these churches have turned away from an EMPTY cross ...the LIVING Christ is not hanging on a stake today HE sits at the right hand of The Father in Heaven

a cross whether it is wood, steel, plastic, gold, or any other material thing has NO LIFE

Apostles did not build a cross or implied they built one
---Rhonda on 2/21/12


Warwick:

Who ever said I didn't accept Genesis as "historical truth"? I have never had a problem with what Genesis SAYS. I have only questioned what you infer about what it DOESN'T actually say. I also didn't say "creation days weren't 24 hours". I only said "The Bible doesn't say they are 24 hours".

It is you who are making unwarranted assumptions about what I believe and don't believe, much like you make similar unwarranted assumptions about what Genesis says and doesn't say.
---StrongAxe on 2/21/12


"Then why isn't displaying a cross on a church building something led by the Holy Spirit?" Cluny

Simple. Because no where in the Holy Bible does God included such a practice. Rather He warns us of the consequences that leads to such an act in Exodus 20:4-6. The line is clearly drawn by God.

"Or do you find the Cross to be a stumbling block and foolishness because you are perishing?"

Really is that what Scripture declared? "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness". Why do you twist and turn the Scripture when it clearly says Jesus Christ (who's God) is the stumbling block and not the cross (a piece of wood with no life)?
---christan on 2/21/12




"As one wise person here said, its very likely that there are truths in both Calvinist and Arminian theologies, but neither is absolute truth!" JackB

This in theological terms is known as compromising. Anyone who understand theology will tell you that Calvinism and Arminianism is contrary to each other. They would have been disgusted by your view that "there are truths in both." Only a compromiser speaks of such. It's either you are for Christ or against Him.

There's no place for compromisers in the Kingdom of God, that's why He created a special place for such, called the Lake of Fire.
---christan on 2/21/12


StrongAxe, because you are not prepared to accept Genesis as revealed historical truth (as Jesus and the apostles did)you attempt to separate the gospel from its historical foundation leaving only faith in Jesus. For the thief on the cross this was enough but how can we who know the whole of Scripture entertain such disobedience?

Do you imagine you can propose God used evolution (opposite of Genesis) and still claim you have faith in Jesus?

Why make hypothetical arguments at all, while we have His revealed truth? The gospel is not some psychological/hypothetical argument or exercise but brutal reality. We are saved when we actually believe what God says, not giving hypothetical/philosophical ascent.
---Warwick on 2/21/12


I recently became aware of a trend in most churches that do not display the cross, even though the bible clearly states the blessings of the cross. Why is that?
---Lola on 2/14/12

Because the bible NEVBER states or commands any church to display a cross
---francis on 2/21/12


How is it possible to laugh at the Word of God?--MarkV

. He is laughing at your interpretation of it. Why you cant separate the two is likely because your pride wont let you consider the possibility that might be very wrong. You seem to take great delight in heralding yourself as a "teacher" and your condescending tone is evidence of it. JamesL and I have both been where you and Christan are and have escaped that deception by prayer. You cant just throw away the scriptures that are very clear because they dont fit your reasoning over the ones that arent so clear.

As one wise person here said, its very likely that there are truths in both Calvinist and Arminian theologies, but neither is absolute truth!
---JackB on 2/21/12


Lola, If they have no cross on the outside, then they probably have no cross on the inside. A church without Jesus is just an empty building: the people go in, and then the people come out either the same way they went in, or else leave worse off then when they went in. But a church that preaches the cross of Christ, preaches the power of God: the people go in, and then the people come out better, they are changed by meeting the Spirit of Jesus inside.
---Eloy on 2/21/12


\\You call it "human tradition", I understand it as God's blessed providence for His people.\\

Then why isn't displaying a cross on a church building something led by the Holy Spirit?

Or do you find the Cross to be a stumbling block and foolishness because you are perishing?

Glory to Jesus Chris!
---Cluny on 2/21/12


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then turn around and tell Christan all of you are laughing.
---MarkV

The thing is Christian is bring in points we are not talking about. We agree with most of what he is saying but we are not talking about those things, we are talking about a symbol NOT an object of worship or our faith is based on that symbol. Christian is talking about points that make no sense in the context of what we are talking about.
---Scott1 on 2/21/12


christan:

I never said all 66 books must be read and understood separately. However, one must realize that each one was WRITTEN separately, by separate authors, in different contexts, to different audiences.

When John was speaking about "the words of this prophecy", he was speaking about The Revelation specifically, and NOT the whole Bible (which is, in itself, not all prophecy anyway).

As far as "God's Blessed Providence" goes, it happens to be how we look at it NOW. If "whatever is in vogue at the time" is always divine providence because God happens to allow it, then yes, you can say that. But then you also have to say that for all other things God allows that you might not agree with.
---StrongAxe on 2/21/12


"combining them into one unified codex was not done until much later - so it is a human tradition (and I'm surprised you're not dead set against it for that reason)." StrongAxe

You call it "human tradition", I understand it as God's blessed providence for His people. Also known as "manna from heaven" or spiritual food to edify His people and encourage them of the blessed hope that await them for their faith in Jesus Christ.

Is that how you read the Holy Bible? All sixty-six are to be read and understood separately from one another? So if you have the Holy Bible, you had better throw it away since they are not one "organic Word of God" as you suggest.
---christan on 2/21/12


James L, sometimes I don't understand your stand. You are given the Word of God, the passage, you don't show why they are wrong, then turn around and tell Christan all of you are laughing. How is it possible to laugh at the Word of God? Is this what the Word of God means to you? Don't you realize that few will enter the narrow gate? The others will not be laughing when the Day of the Lord comes.
In hell they will wish God had removed the thoughts of free will from their minds, so they too could be saved. "be ever hearing but never understanding" Isa. 6:9). They heard but never understood. "Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day" (Deut. 29:4).
---Mark_V. on 2/21/12


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James_L,

If believing that salvation is 100% of God and 0% man is a laughing matter to you, I'm in good standing with Paul.

"God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.", see anywhere here where by your "free-will" you went to Christ?

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.", you laugh and think it's funny that salvation is 100% of God.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
---christan on 2/21/12


Warwick:

You said: His word in the NT says He really came and died to save us because of the real sin of Adam. You don't believe this part.

Where did you get this from, since I have never said any such thing? I have made many comments on the plausibility of evolution, but when have I ever said anything against Jesus's death and atonement?

I have occasionally made reductio ad absurdum arguments such as "If Adam had not sinned, there would have been no fall, and no need for Jesus to die, but these represent absurd hypotheticals, not my beliefs.
---StrongAxe on 2/21/12


"Does this mean you don't have a photo ID, christan, or any pictures of your loved ones?" Cluny

Sure, I have many. Of my late wife and dad. Of my children and friends. But I sure know that I don't go round telling people, they are "secret symbols of christianity". There's no "worship" involved in the pictures I have, nor are they "christian pictures" where I pray to. See the difference?

I have not broken Exodus 20:4. But to mold a fish (and of course make some money from selling it to fools) and telling people that it's a symbol of christianity or people will not recognize them as christians is nothing short of breaking Exodus 20:4. That's the difference.
---christan on 2/21/12


StrongAxe, I agree with you one-hundred percent.
---John.usa on 2/20/12


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Christan,

ummm, yeah.

It's ok, buddy. If my faith were as fragile as yours, I'd be grabbing at straws too.

I wonder if you even consider exactly how many people read the utter nonsense that you write.

Do you have any idea how many people are talking at the dinner table about this poor fool named Christan?

Do you have any idea how many people are laughing at you?

Wow, I can't even fathom it. Dang, man. It's horrible. Wow.

I mean, when I think about what people are saying about you, wow. I can't even imagine how you must feel
---James_L on 2/20/12


James_L, from what I said in "Christ's Death at Calvary" blog,

"From your mouth you speak like a Calvinist, but from your heart you're a real true blue Arminian....when one rejects Christ, it is simply because God has not worked His mercy and grace in the sinner to believe in Him....Why do you write it like it really depends on the man and not God? Simple, you're an Arminian."

You gather that I am a Calvinist? What a moronic understanding you have of someone who knows the difference between Calvinisim and Arminianism. To you that makes one a Calvinist or Arminian?

If you understood the difference between Communism and Democracy, does that make you a Communist? See how stupid you sound?
---christan on 2/20/12


StrongAxe I have noticed those who give credence to the possibility of the antiBiblical theory of evolution reduce Scripture to have "faith in Jesus Christ." But you forget Jesus is Creator but you have no faith in this part. His word in the NT says He really came and died to save us because of the real sin of Adam. You don't believe this part.

You glibly talk of faith in Jesus Christ while at the same time having limited faith in Him. You are correct, faith is the yardstick but you have little faith. "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible Hebrews 11:3 ." And "whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" Romans 14:23.
---Warwick on 2/20/12


StrongAxe, nowhere in the whole of Scripture is any doubt expressed about the historical reality of Genesis, only the opposite. Your views are without Scriptural support, and are in fact antiScriptural. But you talk of faith!

A count shows Jesus and His apostles quoted from or alluded to the first 11 chapters of Genesis no less than 107 times and always as sober historical reality. Do you somehow know better than them?
---Warwick on 2/20/12


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John.usa:

You are making evolution the yardstick by which salvation is measured. By doing this, you are choking on gnats and swallowing camels.

The Bible makes no mention of this particular yardstick. It doesn't even mention believing any particular parts of the Bible (such as Genesis 1) as being necessary for salvation. What IS necessary for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ.

When Jesus describs his final judgment, he separates righteous from wicked based on how they loved others - NOT based on the correctness of their theology.
---StrongAxe on 2/20/12


Scott1, A-men. The Ichthus (ie: fish in Greek) was an early christian symbol used secretly among believers during a time of great persecution. Five letters were written inside the fish symbol: (iota)=I (chi)=ch (theta)=th (upsilon)=u (sigma)=s = ichthus.

Incognito, and exclusively used by the followers, this symbol represented: iesous christos theos uios soter = (in English it is, Jesus Christ God's Son Savior).
---Eloy on 2/19/12


Yes, evolution is a nefarious plot by the devil to subvert Christianity. If someone gets saved and later embraces evolution, he will lose his salvation. It's scary and terrible.
---John.usa on 2/19/12


"Ichtus fish" which you claimed were "secret symbols" of Christianity.

secret not as in a secret society or something like that but a way of identifing christian from non-christian like a code not a secret sect or level of christianity
---Scott1 on 2/19/12


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StrongAxe, Jesus is Creator of all things whether in heaven or earth, whether visible of invisible. And in Him all things hold together, as Colossians 1:16,17 tells us. There is nothing on this earth which is outside of the processes He created to run all things. Do you imagine the physical processes which result in bread were a surprize to Him?

Evolution is at its core a atheistic belief. Atheism is the belief there is no God 'a theism' and evolution is the atheistic explanation of our origins. Attempting to squeeze God into its gaps is like Christianizing a pagan ceremony.
---Warwick on 2/19/12


\\How about Exodus 20:4, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Or that does not apply to you also since it's in the book of Exodus and was for Israel only? Please\\

Does this mean you don't have a photo ID, christan, or any pictures of your loved ones?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/19/12


The Bible doesn't say anything about building church buildings or displaying crosses. So having a church with a cross is wrong and having a church without a cross is wrong.
---John.usa on 2/19/12


Warwick:

The fact that evolution doesn't specifically rely on God doesn't make it any more atheistic than baking bread or knitting a sweater, neither of which rely on God either. Both processes can work just as well if you believe God is in the picture, or if you believe he isn't.

Evolution in no way relies on the absence of God - which is what "atheism" means.


christan:

Why bind all 66 books into one? Good question. Jesus didn't do it, and neither did the Apostles. They were separate scrolls at that time, and many were quoted from, but combining them into one unified codex was not done until much later - so it is a human tradition (and I'm surprised you're not dead set against it for that reason).
---StrongAxe on 2/19/12


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Lee, that is true, because they believe that to make images of the cross is idolatry and therefore is an abomination, yet at the same time they print in their watchtower and other books numberous images of God the Father, Jesus the Holy Spirit and the saints and so forth. one would wonder. and what about the jeowahs eternal discussion about the form of the cross, for someone who says they do not value the natural, they do put to much emphasis.
---andy3996 on 2/19/12


StrongAxe, you are correct evolution cannot be scientifically disproved. That means, scientifically speaking, it is not a theory but an hypothesis, just a belief, not supported by fact.

God is eternal which means by definition He is outside of time therefore not living days of any length. The evolutionary belief is about naturalistic processes occurring over billions of years. That is what is taught. Trying to splice a little of God into an atheistic belief is foolish, as it does not correspond either with Scripture of the evolutionary story.
---Warwick on 2/18/12


"However, those words specifically referred only to Revelation, not the rest of the Bible." StrongAxe

I was wondering when you would be pulling that rabbit out of the hat. If what you say is true, why bind sixty-six books into ONE? Why don't we have sixty-six separate books since they are "not related" to one another as you claim?

How about Exodus 20:4, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Or that does not apply to you also since it's in the book of Exodus and was for Israel only? Please.

God is ONE and so too are His Words in the Holy Bible.
---christan on 2/18/12


You will not find a cross in any Mormon or Jehovah's Witness building.
---lee1538 on 2/18/12


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seems to me i have hit a spot with my question, i asked this question, because the eldest inscriptions of the fish, where mainly found in Israel (the fishes in the catacombs where of later date). they where put on walls in (broken)cisterns and they where often accompanied by images of the seven armed candlestick and other nationalistic symbols. yet the cross was rare. (all incriptions are dated second half of the 1st century that would be 50-100 AD. the temple was destroyed 70 AD. crosses are much younger. any toughts without insulting instead?
---andy3996 on 2/18/12


christan:

Yes, those words were written in a book - the scroll of the Revelelation. Anyone who adds any words to its prophecy or takes words away from them is condemned. However, those words specifically referred only to Revelation, not the rest of the Bible.

The fact that we currently bundle 66 separate books into one volume is a fairly modern tradition. In Biblical times, they were all separate books.

The Fish was not so much a "symbol of Christianity" per se, as merely a kind of "secret handshakes" that let one Christian recognize another, without unbelievers being able to recognize them. By making a big deal out of this, you are choking on gnats.
---StrongAxe on 2/18/12


I do not understand all the grief regarding the fish as a Christian symbol.

I =Jesus
Ch =Christ
Th =Theou (God's)
U =Uios (Son)
S =Soter (Savior)

The letters of the Greek word for fish 'Ichthus' spell out 'Jesus Christ God's Son Saviour.' The fish symbol was used by early Christians to let other Christians know of their faith without exposing themselves to those who may kill them. We have the same problem in many Islamic countries today.
---Warwick on 2/17/12


Perhaps those churches are not Christianed.
---Eloy on 2/17/12


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StrongAxe and Scott, to date I have not heard of anyone who claimed that the computer nor electricity are symbols of Christianity. As such, I have no argument with computers, internet nor electricity as compared to your "Ichtus fish" which you claimed were "secret symbols" of Christianity.

The Bible is complete and anything that's foreign to what's already taught in the Bible is simply called "profane" or as John warned, "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book" John 22:18
---christan on 2/17/12


christan:

What does the icthus fish have to do with the internet, etc.? Nothing, other than the fact that neither one is in the Bible.

You scream outrage over the former because Jesus and the Apostles never taught it. Yet you have no problems with the latter, even though many computers use them. Why the difference?

Nobody has ever made a doctrine out of the internet. Nobody has ever made a doctrine out of the ichthus fish either. It was merely a recognition symbol.

I had a friend years ago who was a a Jehovah's Witness. He told me that in countries where they are persecuted, they often go down the street quietly whistling their worship songs - which will not be recognized by anyone else but other Witnesses.
---StrongAxe on 2/17/12


//UNBELIEVABLE! Is this taught by Christ or the apostles? I sure would like to see the Scripture to this.//

the apostles being killed and/or cruxified etc. (except for James) is also not in the Bible that does not mean that it did not happen. There are events that are not recorded in the Bible. As to being more legend than fact I do not know.
---Scott1 on 2/17/12


"Jesus nor his disciples ever taught the use of electricity, computers, internet, and blogs either." StrongAxe

What has these wonderful providence of God anything to do with your "Ichtus fish"? I don't see anyone making a doctrine out of electricity, computers, internet and blogs and telling us that it's a secret code in Christianity like your "Ichtus fish", do you?

"I suppose you would be running around trying to make a cross with your two index fingers?" James_L

Are you saying you do? Then that would be a sign to me that you're definitely not a Christian, just like that "Ichtus fish" of yours.
---christan on 2/17/12


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\\If one Christian met someone he suspected was another Christian, he might draw a fish symbol in the sand with his foot."\\

I've noticed this being done in historical novels or Biblical-era movies, such as QUO VADIS.

But I've NEVER seen any historical verification of it.

It was probably originally a literary device that became an urban legend.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/16/12


christan:

Jesus nor his disciples ever taught the use of electricity, computers, internet, and blogs either. If you only go by what they taught and reject everything else, you ought to get off here, destroy your computer (don't sell it, lest you put someone else into temptation), and go live in a cave.

But if you admit the possibility that some good things CAN exist despite never beught taught in the New Testament, you must acknowledge that some traditions arose after that time that were necessary because of the times they arose in, that were not necessary beforehand.
---StrongAxe on 2/16/12


\\UNBELIEVABLE!
Drawing fishes with your foot?\\
---christan on 2/16/12


I suppose you would be running around trying to make a cross with your two index fingers?
---James_L on 2/16/12


"It was a secret symbol so that christians could communicate and know that the other person was not a spy. If one Christian met someone he suspected was another Christian, he might draw a fish symbol in the sand with his foot."

UNBELIEVABLE! Is this taught by Christ or the apostles? I sure would like to see the Scripture to this.

All I know is John admonished the Christians, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us, he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."

Drawing fishes with your foot?
---christan on 2/16/12


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---christan on 2/16/12
yeah that is where the fish comes from. It was a secret symbol so that christians could communicate and know that the other person was not a spy. One person would draw an arc then the other person would draw another arc on top making a fish. If you were not a christian then you would just see someone draw an arc without realizing the code.
---Scott1 on 2/16/12


christan:

The "ichthus fish" was a secret symbol among early Christians, used at a time when being known to be a Christian could mean persecution or death. Iota Chi Theta Ypsilon Sigma had two meanings. It meant "fish", but was also an acronym for "Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior".

If one Christian met someone he suspected was another Christian, he might draw a fish symbol in the sand with his foot. If the other was also a Christian, he would know they were brothers. Otherwise, he would later just erase it with his foot again.

Today, however, since in the west there is no similar Christian persecution, the fish has become more overt and trite, more like signalling membership in a social club.
---StrongAxe on 2/16/12


"we would stick to the earlier christian symbol, the Ichtus fish. does anyone know the history of the fish?" andy3996

Where on earth does one get this pagan concept or even dare relate the "Ichtus fish" to Christianity? Was it because of Matthew 4:19, "And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men."? Seriously?

Then you may want to read Judges 16:23, 1 Samuel 5:2-7, 1 Chronicles 10:10 about the pagan god called Dagon. And you will find some interesting references on the internet when you search for the word Dagon.

Be assured the "Ichtus fish" is nothing but paganism hiding behind Christianity using the verse in Matthew 4:19.
---christan on 2/16/12


---christan on 2/15/12

He (atheist) asked a historical question. So I speculated a historical answer based on facts of history. And yes the Jews wanted Jesus dead but the Romans had to have some type of formal legal standing to do this which the Jews knew of course that is why they claimed he was starting a revolt to overthrow Caesar. Jesus also claimed higher authority than Caesar during the trial.
---Scott1 on 2/16/12


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"The cross in a church is a symbol of Christ's suffering and death."

KarenD: I already acknowledged the purpose of the cross in a church, if you read the quote of my first sentence in my first reply. However, the cross has no supernatural blessings attached to it, as Lois stated in her question. That was my point.
---Trish on 2/16/12


"I would be much more worried about churches that don't preach the cross at all, but rather just warm fuzzy feel-good positive affirmations."
---StrongAxe on 2/15/12
Agree
---chria9396 on 2/16/12


Trish...The cross is there to remind us of what Jesus did for us. The fake trees and flowers are decoration. The cross is much more than that.
---KarenD on 2/15/12


While I personally like seeing a cross in a church, the problem of late is too many people are focusing on the image of the cross and not what it was used for - that of the crucifixion of Christ. The cross has no special function other than to remind us of how Christ died and why He died on the cross. While I firmly feel a cross should be present in a church, I can understand the reason behind not having one, as long has it not because the church is just too liberal in nature and don't won't a cross because they don't think it's purpose was needed.
---wivv on 2/15/12


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"yes. The cross was a major death machine." Scott1
Instead of concentrating on who was nailed to the cross and why, we get a history lesson on how the cross came about.

"Jesus was cruxified because he claimed to be God (which he is) to the Romans Caesar is god."
It was the Jews who wanted Christ dead. Pilate was merely the instrument they used to crucify the Son of God. Neither are getting away with this on Judgement Day.

"If Jesus had been put to death in an electric chair..." atheist
It takes an unbeliever to speak this truth. If you claim to be a christian who believe in idols, imagine how deep in darkness you are as compared atheist.
---christan on 2/15/12


Jason Varner, what you said is food but has a few flaws, the X is called the crux decussata and was mainly used in parts of Asia.
whilst the crux immisa is the properly used Roman tool.

Atheist, probably we would, or we would stick to the earlier christian symbol, the Ichtus fish. does anyone know the history of the fish? the cross came only in full use end second century beginning 3rd.
---andy3996 on 2/15/12


KarenD: Why do you say that a cross in a church is not a decoration? Does it hold some other purpose? It certainly has no power, or do you believe differently. Explain what you mean, please.

I was raised Catholic, and every year there was a special Holy Time when the crucifix was placed where the members of the parish could touch and kiss it, supposedly getting special blessings from it. I was also taught to pray to the statue of Mary for purity.

If a cross in a church is not a decoration, what is it there for?
---Trish on 2/15/12


One fun fact. The crosses that Romans used to crucify all of their convicts was actually an "X" shape rather than a "+" shape. Now, obviously nobody has an "x" shape cross even though that is what was used allegedly.

Figure out things for yourself rather than believing social opinions.
---Jason_Varner on 2/15/12


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atheist, Yes indeed. If the Innocent and Holy Lord of all was killed in an electric chair, then his children would be wearing empty electric chairs close to their hearts, and topping his Houses of worship with the electric chair. But as the truth stands, it was not a chair that our Father was killed on, but it was upon the tree that he was slain and which was lifted up from the earth at golgotha. And it is at the foot of this cross that each soul comes to repentance.
---Eloy on 2/15/12


The cross in a church is a symbol of Christ's suffering and death. However, I do not believe that having one in a church is more of a blessing than not having one. We are not supposed to worship crosses. They are decorations.
---Trish on 2/14/12


TRISH....Perhaps you used the wrong word here. The cross is not a decoration.
---KarenD on 2/15/12


atheist, you are comparing the Son of God to a mortal corrupt man who has broken the law in henious ways. Your remark don't even deserve an answer.
---shira4368 on 2/15/12


The cross in churches aren't necessary. As long as the gospel is being scriptually sound.Remember Jesus got off the cross & ascended to heaven. No where in scripture does it say for us to have it in our buildings.
---Candice on 2/15/12


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If Jesus had been put to death in an electric chair, would people wear little electric chairs around their necks, and would church steeple have electric chairs at the top?
---atheist on 2/15/12

yes. The cross was a major death machine. After Spartacus lost his final battle after his revolt, The road was lined with crosses for approx. 200 miles to execute his followers. One major difference between cross and modern day execution methods is that the cross was used just for political reasons than major criminals. Jesus was cruxified because he claimed to be God (which he is) to the Romans Caesar is god.
---Scott1 on 2/15/12


Please give the Book,Chapter,and verse in the Bible where it tells the "blessings" of the cross. I thought that the cross was only a means to an end. A way for Christ to become the scarifice for our sins and the cross itself has no special importance. The preaching of the cross is preaching about Christs suffering and death not to make the cross something to be worshipped. When people wear a cross or put up a cross its to remember Christ not the cross.
---Darlene_1 on 2/15/12


If Jesus had been put to death in an electric chair, would people wear little electric chairs around their necks, and would church steeple have electric chairs at the top?
---atheist on 2/15/12


well dear friend like the first commenter stated is it does not say in the good book that we are to have a cross on the walls of our place of worship but you need to ask the holy spirit why he showed this too you this trend or what you see
---curtis on 2/15/12


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1 Corinthians 1:18
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

Note that Paul spoke about the preaching of the cross, not the hanging of the cross on a wall. I would be much more worried about churches that don't preach the cross at all, but rather just warm fuzzy feel-good positive affirmations.
---StrongAxe on 2/15/12


Maybe these churches understood one of the commandments God gave to Moses at Mt Sinai, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me."


Where does it even say in the Scripture, "make yourself a cross and put it in your place of worship or wear it around thy necks or make a cross to show you're a christian"?
---christan on 2/14/12


The cross in a church is a symbol of Christ's suffering and death. However, I do not believe that having one in a church is more of a blessing than not having one. We are not supposed to worship crosses. They are decorations.
---Trish on 2/14/12


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