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How To Put To Death The Body

Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. How do we put to death the deeds of the body?

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//the Elect, chosen from the foundation of the world are one group//--Mk V Eph 1 (all) vs 4[before-not from the foundation of the world]

// others [...] who are going to be saved through time?---Mk V//
//are going to be saved through time?// Only if they turn from their ways-repent the possiblility is available. Death is concurred-period. Perishing will be based on ones own action [without excuse-] not because God as creator created them for the sole purpose of perishing them---if he did, then at judgment, that would be [their excuse] for not turning-in repentance. Is 29:16, Rom 1:20
All will be come face to face with God---regardless - chosen or not. There will be no denying - He exist -AlmightyGod.
Is 45:23
Continued'
---char on 2/26/12


Char, you anwered no, then said not all believers were selected for the purpose the elect were. You do have two groups of believers. Are not the believers the Church? And if they are the church, they are the body of Christ who is the bride of Christ? Seems you are saying there is an elect and then there is believers. And that believers are not the bride of Christ. Are not the elect believers also? It is a great things to study Hebrew and Greek, no question about that. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the question.
---Mark_V. on 2/26/12


---christan on 2/25/12------Huh?
Is he not the creator of those that witnessed him on the cross? Hebraism, idoms, word puns etc...are so beautiful when understood.
I can only encourage learning ancient Hebrew, God told us He is Aleph to Tav.
I will not reply to you in the same tone you have with me. I will wait in love for that tone to change..If and when you are ever ready, I look forward to discussing our understanding of The Creator, one and only God, and father, Jesus Christ-Son of God Immanuel-God with us.

But I will only to do this in Love, the enemy desires the child of God to abuse one another. I am sick of it, refuse to put up with it,
and will not give him-place.
Phil 2

Shalom
---char on 2/26/12


char, if i may add something. Those chosen have been chosen already by God, already known by Him. The full number.From God's perspective, complete. However, in time as we know it,...it is until the number of their fellow servants and brothers has been completed.
---char on 2/26/12


Mk V, I did answer your question,
//As to your understanding to my statements:
----No. Not what I said//

And what's referenced ancient Hebrew and Greek does have to do with ancient Hebrew and the Greek. I could only encourage the learning the language of the bible and will continue to state not to take my word on this'

My understanding,

//Witnessed: Iota, Aleph to Tav-Matt 5:18.
Not all believers were selected for the purpose-only the elect were chosen for. The elect do not have freewill. God will utilize His election to execute His plan of salvation..// ---char on 2/20/12 From the Where Does our Soul Dwell-blog.

To Start-
The bride is chosen for the groom.
Cont'
---char on 2/26/12




JamesL, oh no! Of course not! It means whatever you want it to :D

Just like "not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" doesnt mean exactly what it says.

The reason that truth is not accepted is because it destroys the core of the false beliefs of HYPERcalvinism. I stress HYPER because there are many Calvinists that I respect because they arent 5 pointers. There are Calvinists who do not blaspheme their own Savior. They believe the word of God for exactly what it says.
---JackB on 2/26/12


"A King serves [humbles himself], comes to his people on bended knee." char

Be assured that Christ's act of humility has nothing to do with "comes to his people on bended knee"! Do you even have any clue of what you are saying here? God does not bow down nor go on His knees before His creations.

If He did, He would never had said, "All nations before him are as nothing, And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity." Isaiah 40:17. "Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: To be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity." Psalm 62:9

Dream on. And MarkV is right in his assessment.
---christan on 2/25/12


Char, you said a lot of things and understood a lot of what you said, believed in a lot of what you said, but you did not answer the question with all you said. It had nothing to do with Hebrew or Greek, or anything to do with who is smarter or not, or anything else.
The question really was, are you saying that the Elect, chosen from the foundation of the world are one group, and that there is others who were not Elected from the foundation of the world who are going to be saved through time? Are there two groups? Please make it simple to understand. And no, we do not know everything. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 2/25/12


Translated:Eternal, everlasting, forever
The ancient Hebrew words are used describing, distance- direction-description of time "unknown"
Hebrew word for east:[qedem] defined "the direction of the rising sun"
Qedem-East, expressing direction toward, (where sun rises)
qadam- Antiquity, former estate (abstract noun)from [ancient former] qedem
qadim-East wind,(noun)(Job 27: 21,Ps 48:7,78:26,Job 38:24,
Qadomi- Former, ancient,eastern. (adjectival) form of [qedem]

Hebrew word for "unknown" [Olam]defined, "beyond the horizon", used for distant past and ancient times. Gen 6:4,Deut 32:7,Mic 5:2. When used for a sequence or future time, it coveys the action of God. Joel 2:1-11time 'unknown'
---char on 2/25/12


//Who do you think Paul was referring to in Ephesians 2?// ---christan on 2/25/12

---The elect.

//"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love", clearly speaking about the elect.christan on 2/25/12--Agreed.

//Seriously? You concluded this from reading the Scriptures or did another spirit other than the Holy Spirit told you this?//

Praise God. He knows every-heart of man and it is not man we have to answer to or follow.

Only Ysha-Jesus Christ.

The gift given?

Himself:

God Savior-Jesus Christ, Word of God-in flesh, Immanuel, God with us.
---char on 2/25/12




Gift:Elohyim-the Camp of protection, graceful and precious place - within Him.
He sent His Word in flesh - Ysha- Son of Life and protection, Immamuel, God with us.
He[Exist] the gift-Holy Spirit.

A King serves [humbles himself], comes to his people on bended knee.
Num 2:23-27Aaronic blessing [Hebraic concept]
"Yahweh will kneel before you presenting gifts and will guard you with a [hedge of protection]"--Grace defined.
Phil 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Creators Word [direct speech/written] in Spirit and in truth. That is His Gift. Truth that comes directly from within Elohyim.
Agreement declared
Amen-Emuna.
---char on 2/25/12


//Char, ...Am I hearing you clearly? I want to make sure. Because if you are, you are wrong.//
Imagine, Mark telling another person they are wrong!!!
---michael_e on 2/25/12


Mark v. First and foremost I will say, knowledge and wisdom, time etc is Gods and He can do whatever He wants with it, however He wants to. He is God- not us. No man, not me, you... etc...know everything. Humbleness is a beautiful thing.

Second:(time) for that matter is what man is subject to, however, God is not. God is timeless, again, He is creator, the beginning and ending of all things.

I encourage learning the ancient Hebrew Letters.In time one may grow in knowledge of His Word - down to each letter- Truely His exist Aleph to Tav - just as said..He is.

Mt 5:18, Lk 16:17 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, [one jot or one tittle] shall in no wise pass from the law, till [All] be fulfilled.
cont'
---char on 2/25/12


\\John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son\\
---JackB on 2/24/12


Jack, surely that couldn't mean what it says - could it?
---James_L on 2/25/12


Mk V. As to your understanding to my statements:
// So what you are saying is that the elect He knows before the foundation of the world because He chose them but the others He does not know about because they had not made their choice yet//
----No. Not what I said.

It would be better if you copy and paste instead of re-wording, however, it does let me know what your perspective is or what you [think] I am saying.

So, as to your statement, //you are wrong.//

---I will disregard----quickly.

//He is not gaining knowledge through time.// --- We are subject to time - God is not. He is knowledge and uses [time] however - He wills.
cont'
---char on 2/25/12


cont'
Hebraic perspective- is concrete.
Olam defined: [unknown-beyond the horizon] The Roman-Greek translated to forever, everlasting, eternal (abstract thought).
However,
Humbled we understand the (Hebraic concrete thought).
God is beyond the horizon He is- His Word, down to each letter. I prefer to trust-Him.

Is 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

So, does he know every spirit He created? Yes. Elohyim is completed, and when he created-(substances out of nothing)---we are given a glimpse, that it was not incomplete.

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joyJob 38:7
---char on 2/25/12


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cont'
Hebraic perspective- is concrete.
Olam defined: [unknown-beyond the horizon] The Roman-Greek translated to forever, everlasting, eternal (abstract thought).
However, Humbled we understand the (Hebraic concrete thought). God is beyond the horizon He Is- His Word, down to each letter. I prefer to trust-Him.

Is 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

So, does he know every spirit He created? Yes. Elohyim is completed, and when he created-(substances out of nothing)---we are given a glimpse, that it was not incomplete.

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joyJob 38:7
---char on 2/25/12


Rom 9:13, Mal 1:2
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Jacob I loved (past-tense) Essau I hated (past-tense)

Why? God did not create Essau's spirit for the sole purpose of perishing it.

Did he destroy the 1/3 of the angels that did not stand for Him? No.
Did he destroy the enemy? No.
But, a sentenced-declared.

God is timeless and has given us the season in [cycles] and the Heavens to know the seasons.Ps 19
Time is in circular not linear, it does not begin or end, it continues. God does not have a beginning or and end, He continues [exist]. He is the beginning and ending of all things.
The meaning defined-to the letter.
He is Aleph to Tav--I say learn them while it is still day.
---char on 2/25/12


Part 1: "God did not give the elect the gift of faith to believe in him-they were already justified before the foundation of this world." char

Seriously? You concluded this from reading the Scriptures or did another spirit other than the Holy Spirit told you this? Scripture says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Who do you think Paul was referring to in Ephesians 2? The non-elect? Ephesians 1 clearly declares, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love", clearly speaking about the elect.
---christan on 2/25/12


Jack B, You clearly reject the Word of God. Jesus died for believers only, His sheep, Jesus said,
"As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father, and "I lay down My life for the sheep" (John 10:15). If He layed down His life for every single person in the world He would not have said, "for His sheep" His Sheep only hear His voice, "My sheep hear My voice, "and I know them," and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never parish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:27.28). "Everyone who is of the Truth hears My voice"
Why do you not believe? Because only those of the Truth hear Jesus voice.
---Mark_V. on 2/25/12


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Part 2: "...they were already justified before the foundation of this world." char

Do you even understand what's the meaning of justification? How can God justify "the elect" before the foundations of the world?

While it's true that God's plan was to justify "the elect" in His time, they must first be brought into this world. Born of sin, given the gift of faith, which they will repent of their sins and believe that Christ is God and savior. At this point are they then "justified by faith", declared no more guilty by God on the account of Christ's atonement at Calvary.

Seriously, do you even read the Scriptures about justification? It's all there in the Bible.
---christan on 2/25/12


If He did die for everybody, why are so many going to hell?--MarkV

Here ya go...

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves
---JackB on 2/24/12


MarkV,

Maybe you should stop putting words into others mouths in an attempt to make them look untrustworthy. Fault-finding by bearing false witness? Very childish and certainly not Christ-like.

I never said that Jesus died for the devil and his angels (because no scripture declares that) nor do I believe that just because Christ died for all men that all men will be saved.

I dont reason or speculate. I simply read the scripture for EXACTLY what they say and will NEVER change their meaning because they dont seem to fit with other scriptures. Sometimes its best to lean not unto your own understanding, trust God and move on.
---JackB on 2/24/12


Char, it seems to me you are saying there is the
Elect" and then there is others who will chose Christ through time, who are not of the elect. Am I hearing you clearly? I want to make sure. Because if you are, you are wrong.
So what you are saying is that the elect He knows before the foundation of the world because He chose them, but the others He does not know about because they had not made their choice yet. Implying that Almighty God who is Omniscient, knowing all, learns or finds out through time who this people are who will choose Him. What god it this you are talking about? Almighty God knows everything. He is not gaining knowledge through time. I hope that is not what you meant.
---Mark_V. on 2/24/12


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Ysha- Immanuel-God with us, did died and rose from the dead. By doing so - death was concurred.
Death/Satan- concurred. The ransom- paid.
Who will be judged and destroyed? Those that is stated non-believers.
Who are the elect? Those selected and chosen before the foundation of the world.
Who are [Not] of the elect? The rest of mankind-[adam of adamah]- not chosen - and must chose who they will serve.
Not all are the Groom [body of Christ], not all are the Bride [the one chosen for the groom].

The elect know the season, keep the bride guarded.
Bride...keep yourself ----virgin.

[adam-of adamah-mankind]-must chose...what King will you serve?
---char on 2/24/12


We are given a glimpse [shadow] of the invisible.[Born from above]
Did God destroy all creation when the enemy took 1/3 of the angels? He could have-but did not.
God did not give the elect the gift of faith to believe in him-they were already justified before the foundation of this world.
His gift is-Himself.
Spirit and truth: Word of God (Ysha)-Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) to confirm (His Word) which is the ONLY Word He testifies off.
Do not believe me - Learn the foundation of His Word down to each letter. Not one of them has change only- corrupted.
Mat 5:18, Lk 16:17 jot or tittle [Hebrew letter]
---char on 2/24/12


Christ DID die for all mankind. HE reconciled the world, not counting sin so all men CAN come to be saved through faith.
Now tell me, how hard is that to understand? Some here just dont believe in the basics of Christianity.. Thats really sad.
---duane on 2/24/12


\\If He did die for everybody, why are so many going to hell? \\

MarkV, there are only TWO PEOPLE we know for sure will go to hell: the Antichrist and the False prophet.

Therefore, neither you nor I can ask this question, as it's meaningless.

All judgement has been committed to the Son. Jesus said so.

That excludes both of us.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/24/12


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I thought He died for so whoever believes in Him? The efficacy of His blood is powerful enough to cover the blackest sins. His blood could pay for the sins of 10 fallen earths. Anyone who will ever be justified will have been so through His blood. So yes, His blood is enough, but will everyone be justified through it, or will some reject it? The why of that question is in His hands. Im called to share the Gospel so people will have an opportunity to be saved through His Spirit working in the message and the hearts of sinners. Me worrying about who will and wont be saved is not what believers are called to do IMO, it becomes extremely divisive and dividing.
---Poppa_Bear on 2/24/12


---lee1538 2/24/12
Isaiah 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it, that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. Neither let the SON OF THE STRANGER, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. Thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant, Isaiah 56:6 Also the SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERYONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,
---francis on 2/24/12


Jack B, as I said, I will answer when you are wrong as you just did. You conclude that Jesus died for everybody. If He did die for everybody, why are so many going to hell? You suggest He paid the sin in full for all, that would suggest you believe in "univeralism" (that all have been made righteous because Christ died for them) and also suggest with your "all" that He died for everybody which would include satan and his demons, you are preaching from the pit.
You should check what you write before you condemn others.
---Mark_V. on 2/24/12


Francis //I am not sure how a law which Points to Jesus as the creator is strictly jewish.

It is an obvious fact that the Sabbath command was given ONLY to the nation of Israel, no other people ever observed it. In fact, not all ancients nations even had a 7 days week (the Egyptians had a 10 day week).

Scripture states that the Sabbath was given as a sign of the covenant God made ONLY with Israel (Exodus 31:13)

If the Sabbath was applicable we would MUST CERTAINLY SEE it commanded in the Epistles but we do not.

Adventism has to ignore what the early church taught as well as the decisions made at the Jerusalem council Acts 15.
---lee1538 on 2/24/12


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"being taught that Christ may not have died for them. That is a hideous lie from the pit." JackB

What kind of god do you preach that's supposed to have died for everyone and still wind up in hell? All because they never chose Chris? Christ declared to His apostles, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you..." John 15:16

For someone who's as lost, you are sure full of pride when you declared, "...and I will spend my last breath declaring it to the lost." Know what Christ said to the Pharisees, "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." Matthew 15:14

Whose gospel is "hideous" now?
---christan on 2/24/12


We showed you Scriptures and it disagreed with your understanding, not us---Christan

I do the same for the both of you on countless occasions yet those are always "taken out of context" or the words "dont really mean what they say". So I guess we're at a stalemate. I will not, however, sit back and watch people here looking for answers being taught that Christ may not have died for them. That is a hideous lie from the pit. Scripture says He did and I will spend my last breath declaring it to the lost.
---JackB on 2/24/12


Jack B, I know that you don't like us for answering, that is a fact already. Here you said,

You and Mark are sure quick to judge when someone disagrees with ANYthing arent you?"

The answer is yes, because the Truth is so important. And when someone doesn't put the truth but a lie, it is our duty to correct the person out of love not only for the person we answer but for those who might had, had the passage wrong. Like you claim to all the world that the rich man kept the law, so supposely sinless as Jesus, which is a lie. Jesus exposed his heart of sin within him. So you were wrong. You just didn't do the work to find the Truth. You lack passion for Christ and His Word, but you have passion to make remarks to others.
---Mark_V. on 2/24/12


"You and Mark are sure quick to judge when someone disagrees with ANYthing arent you?" JackB

We showed you Scriptures and it disagreed with your understanding, not us. Everything written by you apart from quoting Scriptures, has no truth and totally erroneous. Scriptures contradicts your understanding as to what you believe or not belief.

Before Jesus became man, He's the second "person" of the Holy Trinity. He manifested in the flesh, though man, His God being was never in question. Coming as a man and dying at Calvary simply tells us that only God can save the sinner. Jesus was sinless, rich man never sinless. Though he claimed to have obeyed the law, the sin of Adam was already in him and all of us.
---christan on 2/23/12


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And it is evident that the one who walks by the Spirit may not observe laws that are strictly Jewish in nature such as observing the Jewish Sabbath.
---lee1538 on 2/23/12

I am not sure how a law which Points to Jesus as the creator is strictly jewish.

Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said,...God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth,..
Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men

Well seeing that this God created all men both Jew and Greek, I would say that the sabbath ws made for all men

And to worship the creator BY KEEPING THE SABBATH is in harmony with walking in the spirit
---francis on 2/23/12


Francis says walking in the spirit and obeying God's laws are in "harmony."

Then why are SDAs no better at this "harmony" than others? ALL SDAs I know display no better a lifestyle than other Christians. And SDAs even fail to observe Sabbath correctly whilst condemning others for not being like them.

You can't mix law and grace. "if by grace then it is no more works...But if it be of works, then it is no more grace" Rom 11:6
God says to those judging righteousness by the law:
"Christ has become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justfied by the law: ye are fallen from grace" Gal 5:4

If you judge righteousness by the law then your walking according to the flesh.
---Haz27 on 2/23/12


Jack B,
The rich man asked Jesus which commandments, Jesus gave him six, he said he kept them all, yet ask Jesus "what do I still lack?" if he was missing something, Jesus said,
"If you want to be perfect" (had not kept the whole law) go sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasures in heaven, and come, follow Me"

Jesus was not setting forth terms for salvation, but rather exposing the young man's true heart. Refusal to obey exposed he was not blameless as far as the law was concerned, because he was guilty of loving himself and his possessions more than his neighbor. Second, he lacked true faith, which involves a willingness to surrender all at Christ's bidding (v.19).
---Mark_V. on 2/23/12


//This is just YOUR own interpretation. But one who walks in the spirit does not commit adultery, murder, dishonour his mother and the like.

And it is evident that the one who walks by the Spirit may not observe laws that are strictly Jewish in nature such as observing the Jewish Sabbath.

Those that wish to follow the law as presented at Mt. Sinai that is not in the New covenant, are called the children of Hagar. Ever read Galatians 4:24f?

No, I do not agree with Ellen White's view that the Holy Spirit neglected to pen a command in the New Covenant that beleivers need observe the Sabbath.
---lee1538 on 2/23/12


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You and Mark are sure quick to judge when someone disagrees with ANYthing arent you?

If he kept the whole law then Jesus Christ wasnt the only sinless man. Now do you see? So basically...the man was full of it! Jesus proved that to him by telling him to do something that He knew he never would. He was proving this mans self-righteousness was nothing more than filthy rags.

Scripture also quotes the Pharisees as saying Jesus cast out devils by the prince of devils. Does that mean He did? Of course not.
---JackB on 2/22/12


Cluny: "jerry, why do you pick and choose which among God's 613 commandments you keep?"

Because of the Bible, Cluny. Have you never read:

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED you to perform, even TEN commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

For a guy who claims to be so smart, you'd think you could read the number TEN!


---jerry6593 on 2/23/12


francis//The two are not incompartable. In fact, one who walks in the spirit does obey the laws of God.

Then why would Scripture speak of the ten commandments as being the ministry of death & condemnation compared to the ministry of the Spirit? 2 Cor. 3:7,9
---lee1538 on 2/22/12

This is just YOUR own interpretation. But one who walks in the spirit does not commit adultery, murder, dishonour his mother and the like.

Walking in the spirit and obeying the laws of God and not in conflict. they are rather in harmony.
---francis on 2/23/12


francis//The two are not incompartable. In fact, one who walks in the spirit does obey the laws of God.

Then why would Scripture speak of the ten commandments as being the ministry of death & condemnation compared to the ministry of the Spirit? 2 Cor. 3:7,9

Yes, those moral attributes that reflect the holiness of God Himself would be found in the Christian who would walk by His Spirit and also would be wrought by the Spirit not by our own efforts, however, the Sabbath would not be among them.
---lee1538 on 2/22/12


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"Do you seriously believe he did?" JackB

"The young man saith unto Him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Matthew 19:20

JackB, when one speaks, he speaks from his own heart. What you spoke is a clear sign that you do not belief what is written in the Word of God, even when the Word says so in no uncertain terms. That's what's really disturbing about you when you claim to be a Christian.

This clearly gives credence to what Christ declared, "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matthew 12:37 - for if you were already "justified", you will never ever doubt the Word of God. Guess what then...
---christan on 2/22/12


All born again Christians live by the Spirit. Thats why we need to be born again of the Spirit, therefore put to death the deeds of the flesh. Its not what we do, its what HE has done for us.. Its all HIM.
We cant help ourselves, we really cant.
Rest in HIM. Trust HIM.
---duane on 2/22/12


Francis said:"If he were to include every single act that would be sin and of the flesh, it would be too much, so he adds the phrase: Galatians 5:21 "and such like:"

So are you saying the 10 commandments don't cover all possibilities. Are we now supposed to add the following (from Gal 5, listed below) to the 10 commandments? How many commandments do SDAs teach to follow in order to inherit the kingdom of God?

THOU SHALT NOT: revel, be drunken, unclean, lascivious, be in variance, emulations, strife, seditions, etc. And "they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God".
---Haz27 on 2/22/12


Romans 3:27-28 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified (declared righteous) by faith apart from works of the law.

Think that Jerry will boast that he observed the Jewish Sabbath (=the OT Sabbath) when he squares off with Christ?

Apparently olde Ellen White got stuck in the Old Testament and never read Galatians as if she had, she would have realized that salvation is thru faith in Christ, not thru obedience to the 10 commandments.
---lee1538 on 2/22/12


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---lee1538 on 2/21/12

The two are not incompartable. In fact, one who walks in the spirt does obey the laws of God

Paul has already listed a number of act which if performed would be against the law of God

Galatians 5:19 Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,...

If he were to include every single act that would be sin and of the flesh, it would be too much, so he adds the phrase: Galatians 5:21 "and such like:"

This would include all other forms of sin, including the dietary laws which he has already commanded in Acts 15:20 abstain from things strangled, and from blood.
and the sabbath commandments which he also commandmed in acts 15:21 and took part in with gentiles in acts 13:44
---francis on 2/22/12


\\"We even believe that is possible to keep all of God's Ten Commandments by the indwelling power of Christ." jerry6593\\

jerry, why do you pick and choose which among God's 613 commandments you keep?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/22/12


The deeds of the body cannot be put to death. Impossible. The body only does what the brain (flesh) tells it to do.

Jesus said the greatest commandment was to love God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your mind. Notice He does not separate the Spirit from the body. One cannot divide the body unless one wishes to serve two masters and Christ teaches that that cannot be done. Matt 6:24.
---barb on 2/22/12


\\my words are short and not as sweet as they could be when I am not stressed.\\

Are youm saying youm are stressed all the time, Eloy?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/22/12


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I once heard an anointed man of God preaching this and I believe it now.

"when you fall in love with Jesus, the 10 Commandments become 10 promises."

Most carnal minded folks won't understand this and neither did I when I heard it 20 some years ago, but I never forgot what that man said and today I realize HOW they become 10 promises.

You won't want to sin when you're in love with Jesus.

Are you in love with Him? Or just have head knowledge about Him? He is magnificant, awesome and the Lord Jesus melts me.
---anon on 2/22/12


Debbie_Jo said: "we just has to believe God and reckon as He reckons."

Amen.

2Cor 5:14-17: "if One died for all, then all died, and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new."
---Haz27 on 2/22/12


but the rich man fulfilled all of God's Ten Commandments--Christan

Do you seriously believe he did?
---JackB on 2/22/12


"We even believe that is possible to keep all of God's Ten Commandments by the indwelling power of Christ." jerry6593

And then what? Look where it got the rich man? You believe that it's "possible" but the rich man fulfilled all of God's Ten Commandments, and was he saved?

Philippians 4:13 simply means that it is His Spirit that strengthens the Christian in his walk of faith in Christ that as each day goes by, he will cling on to Christ more. As the apostle John declares, "He must increase, but I must decrease." and also Paul, "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."
---christan on 2/22/12


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//We even believe that is possible to keep all of God's Ten Commandments by the indwelling power of Christ. You, on the other hand, seem to believe that God's Commandments are a big joke - beneath your dignity to obey.

yes, but where we totally disagree is whether we live by the New Covenant (which has all the commandments except the Sabbath), or must we live by selected laws found only in the Old Covenant. Sorry Jerry but very few Christians outside of Adventism, hold that the New Covenant is merely a rehash of the Old.

Yes, as Christians we are to live by the Spirit and put to death all things that hinder our relationship to the Lord. In that only we can be totally free.To love Him is to obey Him.
---lee1538 on 2/22/12


Lee: "Of course, our Adventist friends...."

Why do you find it necessary to bash us in every blog? I don't refer to the pseudo-Orthodox Presbyterians when referring to you. In fact, you could learn much from the Adventist teaching on righteousness by faith. We are among the few who actually believe:

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

We even believe that is possible to keep all of God's Ten Commandments by the indwelling power of Christ. You, on the other hand, seem to believe that God's Commandments are a big joke - beneath your dignity to obey.


---jerry6593 on 2/22/12


Debbie, You said,

"When Jesus when to the cross He took all of mankind with Him. Paul says that our flesh or old sinful nature died when Christ died. In God's eyes, it is dead".

He didn't take all mankind to the Cross, not biblical. Our sinful nature will not die until we die physically. It not been redeemed, it's been sanctified daily. You said, in the eyes of God it's dead, how could it, when everyone still sins? Sin within is still there. "Put to death the deeds of the flesh" is a continuing work in the Christian, born of the Spirit. Paul says, the Spirit provides us with the energy and power to continually and gradually be killing our sins, a process never complete in this life.
---Mark_V. on 2/22/12


When jesus went to the Cross He took all of mankind with Him. Paul says that our flesh or old sinful nature died when Christ died. In God's eyes, it is dead. We are to reckon as God reckons. We know that all believers have to deal with temptation and sometimes failure and sin. We don't have to put to death our old sinful nature because it has already provisionally died, we just has to believe God and reckon as He reckons.
---Debbie_Jo on 2/21/12


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Francis said:
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

SO JUST DO NOT DO THOSE THINGS
---francis on 2/21/12

Is this physical OR spiritual? (Remember 1Cor 2:12-16)

Why is Sabbath neglect not mentioned here?
---Haz27 on 2/21/12


Flesh and blood cant do anything for itself, much less put its deeds to death. We need to be born again to have life. Life is Christ in you. Its through Him that we have a new life here and now. We have died. We are now saints. We dont become saints through our effort over time, IT is finished.
---calhoon on 2/21/12


anon //So it's not you putting to death the deeds of the flesh, it's the Holy Spirit doing the work through you.
---
In the middle of the BullsEye!

However, all too many churches seem to lack teaching us how to walk in God's Spirit. Perhaps they are afraid that if we walk in the Spirit too much, the applecart may get upset.

Of course, our Adventist friends will be quick to say that walking in God's Spirit is really not enough as one also needs to observe the Jewish (or should I say OT sabbath?) as well as the Levitical dietary laws.



---lee1538 on 2/21/12


Discipline and more praying. I have found that when I am overly stressed I become frustrated and my words are short and not as sweet as they could be when I am not stressed. I think more praying throughout the day especially when stressed. This should help Christ shine through our words and actions, even during heavy and stressful times.
---Eloy on 2/21/12


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lee1538: calhoon said "The old man flesh has died and will die every day."
There's your answer.

"If Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin" Rom 8:10
And "He that is dead is freed from sin" Rom 6:7
"I no longer live but Christ lives in me" Gal 2:20
---Haz27 on 2/21/12


How do we put to death the deeds of the body?
---lee1538 on 2/20/12
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

SO JUST DO NOT DO THOSE THINGS
---francis on 2/21/12


Others here have said very good and helping things. It is "through the Spirit" that we succeed against wrong things. Only the Holy Spirit can put wrong things to death. My own methods may be smart and using Bible verses, but my own methods in my own self-discipline does not work. I need to fully submit to the Holy Spirit . . . "and trust God to have me do this" (2 Corinthians 3:5).

And I relate with how having control in small things can help for beating big things > "He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much," Jesus does say in Luke 16:10. How we do in the secret of our minds is connected with how we do in the open (c: And we need each other, how God has us helping one another.
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/21/12


How do we put to death the deeds of the body?"
"but if BY THE SPIRIT you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live."
This is as led by Him,
"For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again, rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And BY HIM WE CRY, ABBA, FATHER." Total dependence and trust in HIM alone.
---chria9396 on 2/21/12


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All of these responses are saying it's you that has to do something.

The bible tells us, "walk in the Spirit and you won't carry out the desires of the flesh."

That means you must pray in the Spirit, put the Word of God in you, memorize it until it becomes Spirit and Life to you so that the Holy Spirit can lead you and guide you using the Word (the sword of the Spirit).

It is the Holy Spirit working through you but you must feed your spirit in order to "stay walking by the Spirit." I find that praying in the Spirit even if for an hour a day helps me tremendously to stay in the Spirit.

So it's not you putting to death the deeds of the flesh, it's the Holy Spirit doing the work through you.
---anon on 2/21/12


Calhoon made the statement on another thread "WE are to put the deeds of the flesh away? Impossible!!WE cant do any such thing."

Then why does scripture command us to put to death the deeds of the body if this is impossible?

Should we be passive in our Christian walk or should we simply strive to walk in His Spirit, to obey realizing there can be failure in some cases? Does God not discipline us if we do not at least attempt to obey Him?



---lee1538 on 2/21/12


"How do we put to death the deeds of the body?" By recognizing, acknowledging, and subduing, the carnality of our thinking, so that in doing so, we may avoid allowing our actions, in our reliance upon the Father's inspiration, influence, guidance, and empowerment, to be dictated to by that sensually based way of thinking, and acting, towards life, and our fellowman. Actually the answer to the question "How do we put to death the deeds of the body?" is found within the verse you quoted. "through the Spirit." Or as Peter put it "[purify] your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit." 1Pe 1:22 "in sincere love of the brethren."
---Josef on 2/21/12


This verse in Romans 8:13 clearly speaks about the fallen nature of man, the flesh. "putting to death the deeds of the body", meaning SIN is solely the work of "the Spirit" through regeneration. Other than being born of the Spirit, Jesus told us, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." That's why Paul says, "...by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body".

Don't be fooled by some that one can save himself from the curse of the law. Nothing can be more disgusting when Christ declares to us that salvation is "IMPOSSIBLE" for man and fools tells us that it's possible by using your "free-will".
---christan on 2/21/12


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One way is fasting. That's what Great Lent is about.

Saying, "No," to little things like food make it easier to shout, "NO!" to big things like sin.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/21/12


Just for emphasis, before God in prayer, accept & state what wrong you have done. ASK God in Jesus' name to help you by all means to overcome all(known & unknown) what is causing you to fall into such error.
---Adetunji on 2/21/12


This means how do we stop the wrong things? Admit whatever is wrong, and trust God to have us doing better. There are a lot of things that are not obviously wrong but they help to maintain our weakness so then we can give in to obviously wrong things, and stay weak enough to keep on suffering and staying hurt. TV, for just one example, can waste us in what is not making us stronger and more with God. Arguing can wreck us so we do not relate in love. Learn to do only what God has you doing in His peace > Colossians 3:15. Also, we help each other do better, with mutual confessing and mutual prayer to get "healed" more into living God's love (James 5:16).
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/20/12


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