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Are Commandments Important

Are the commandments relevent today?

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 ---Simmons on 2/25/12
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1 Cor. 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord
---michael_e on 3/5/12


//New Covenant is based on the spirit of God in us enabling us to obey Gods laws written in our hearts
---
And good sense would help us realize the laws God wrote on the believer heart were those that would be repeated in the New Testament.

Since there is no law found in the New Covenant that commands the believer to observe any day as holy or to abstain from certain foods, we can truly believe with absolute assurance, such are not required.

To a largely Gentile church Paul wrote -

Romans 14:2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.

(1:5) One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike.
---lee1538 on 3/5/12


Francis said: "New Covenant is based on the spirit of God in us enabling us to obey Gods laws written in our hearts"

So why is it SDAs FAIL to obey when they claim they're "doers of the law"?

"If you offend in ONE point you are guilty of ALL the law" James 2:10.
As SDAs offend in more than ONE point, clearly they're NOT doers of the law and stand condemned and unjustified.

These lukewarm SDAs frustrate God's grace, Gal 2:21. SDAs ingnore Rom 11:6 which shows it's EITHER grace OR works. It CAN'T be both.
"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace, otherwise work is no longer work."
---Haz27 on 3/5/12


//New Covenant is based on the spirit of God in us enabling us to obey Gods laws written in our hearts
---
What fulfills God's law - and you probably will never know - is to love ones neighbor for love of neighbor fulfill God law.

If we obey that one law as given in Romans 13:9-10, can we then not conclude that whatever laws God has written in our hearts has to do with love of neighbor?

And what has the Sabbath to do with love of neighbor? If you answer Nothing, you got the right answer since clearly one can do the Jewish Sabbath totally apart from any relationship with his neighbor.

At the judgment, we will be judged on how we have treated our neighbor - read Matthew 25 about the sheep & the goats.
---lee1538 on 3/5/12


Not at all true! Since the previous verse clearly states that the New Covennat will be NOT LIKE the one God made with Isreal when He lead them out of Egypt.
---lee1538 on 3/4/12

Old covenant was based on Israel human ability to obey God's laws written on stone

New Covenant is based on the spirit of God in us enabling us to obey Gods laws written in our hearts
---francis on 3/5/12




//If the Old Covenant is the 10C Law, then the New Covenant MUST be the exact same Law written in the heart. If you don't have the 10C Law in your heart, then you are not under the New Covenant.

Not at all true! Since the previous verse clearly states that the New Covennat will be NOT LIKE the one God made with Isreal when He lead them out of Egypt.

(8:8-9)I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.

Christians are to walk by faith in God's Spirit as it is only then that God would be pleased with them.
---lee1538 on 3/4/12


The old Covenant is the ten commandment laws.

And according the Scripture, the ten commandment covenant became obsolete with the decline of the temple worship system.
---lee1538 on 3/3/12
I would say that James was quoting from Psalms and infact referring to the 10 commandments:
Psalms 119:44 So SHALL I KEEP THY LAW continually for ever and ever. Psalms 119:45 And I will WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.
---francis on 4/21/11

Francis may be correct in what is the law of liberty.
---lee1538 on 2/27/12

If the law of liberty as you agree are the ten commandmens, why then would the bible ask that we look into the perfect law of liberty or that we shall be judged by the law of liberty?
---francis on 3/4/12


Right on, Francis. The new covenant is the old covenant written in the hearts and minds of God's Kingdom.

The ten commandments were written on stone by the finger of God and one day soon we see them again in the sky. Rev. 11:19 "And the temple of God was opened in Heaven and there was seen in His temple the ark of His covenant, and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Many will tell you that the commandments are not relevent today. You can choose to follow the pied piper down the wide road to destruction or you can follow Jesus down the narrow path to life.
---barb on 3/4/12


While we can do nothing for our salvation as it is wholly of God, we still have the problem of our Christian walk. Our rest is in Christ for our salvation.
lee1538 on 3/2/12
Are you really having problem walking?

Luk_4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk_4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Not being funny, but its fulfilled.
Believe it!

Luk_7:22, Peace
---TheSeg on 3/4/12


And according the Scripture, the ten commandment covenant became obsolete with the decline of the temple worship system.
---lee1538 on 3/3/12

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

HEAVEN AND EARTH HAVE NOT PASSED AWY, AND EVERYTHING HAS NOT YET BEEN FULFILLED
SO THE LAW ( TEN COMMANDMENTS) REMAINS FOR TODAY

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
---francis on 3/4/12




There are many covenants in the bible. Here is one of the OLDEST
Genesis 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

The covenant that God will not destroy the earth by flood.
But when we speak of the old covenant, where the fault was with the people, we are talking about the covenment in which the people agree to be obedient to God. This covenant was broken when they did not obey God.

Jeremiah 11:10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words, and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.
---francis on 3/4/12


Leest: "The old Covenant is the ten commandment laws."

Oh! Do you mean this covenant?

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

If the Old Covenant is the 10C Law, then the New Covenant MUST be the exact same Law written in the heart. If you don't have the 10C Law in your heart, then you are not under the New Covenant.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---jerry6593 on 3/4/12


Francis The old covenant is NOT THE LAW.
___

The old Covenant is the ten commandment laws.


Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the LORD 40 days and nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone.

And according the Scripture, the ten commandment covenant became obsolete with the decline of the temple worship system.

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
---lee1538 on 3/3/12


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law,.. : I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil...Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Look at these two texts, it should be obvious that it is the same laws which God is putting in the hearts of those who accept the new covenant

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them.. I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,
---francis on 3/3/12


Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The fault was not with the Old covenant, the fault with not with the law. The fault was with THE PEOPLE. By breaking the Law they also broke the covenant in which they promises " Exodus 19:8 All that the LORD hath spoken we will do... Exodus 24:7 All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient."

So God made a new covenant, in which he promised his Holy SPirit to be with his covenant people to enable them to be obedient to his Laws.
---francis on 3/3/12


This is the old covenant. A verbal agreement that they would obey God and God would be their God.

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will OBEY MY VOICE indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Exodus 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him. And all the people answered together, and said, ALL THAT THE LORD HATH SPOKEN WE WILL DO. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

The old covenat is NOT THE LAW.
---francis on 3/3/12


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Gordon //The New Covenant is the Blood of YAHUSHUA.

I would ask you what is our obligation under the New Covenant? Is it to observe ceremonial and ritualistic type laws as is the Sabbath, or is it simply to love our neighbor in caring for his needs?

Sorry but I do not view the tenets of the New covenant as a rehash of the old, with the laws found ONLY in the Old applicable to the Christian walk. Some laws like the dietary laws and the Sabbaths were given ONLY to the nation of Israel as a means of separating them from other peoples. They were not taught in the early church to Gentile Christians.
---lee1538 on 3/3/12


LEE, The New Covenant is the Blood of YAHUSHUA. The Blood of YAHUSHUA is the centrality of the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, sins were atoned for by animal sacrifices, which were a foreshadowing of the New Covenant to come. All of the things that GOD promises to HIS people under the New Covenant can ONLY be obtained by receiving the Atonement by the Blood of YAHUSHUA. Under BOTH COVENANTS are HIS Commandments to be obeyed. YAHUSHUA says, in JOHN 14:15, that if we love Him, we will keep His Commandments. Which Commandments are they, if not the Two Greatest Commandments which are the "essence" of the 10 Commandments?
---Gordon on 3/3/12


Our rest is in Christ for our salvation.
---lee1538 on 3/2/12

Rest in christ is not a new testement doctrine

Psalms 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
Psalms 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
Psalms 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

It indicated trust, faith, meekness, and patients. Not an exchange of the Lord Jesus for the 7th day of the week
---francis on 3/2/12


Gordon //So, by Faith in YAHUSHUA, Who atones for our sin, by His Blood, we can have access to the filling of the Holy Spirit Who ENABLES us to live according to the Laws of GOD. To HIS Commands.

Where we differ is as to what laws the Spirit requires of us to follow.

I would say that since the church is under the auspices of the New Covenant and not the Old (became obsolete Hebrews 8:13), many of the laws Adventists believe are applicable are not since we do not see any command in the New Testament nor taught in the early church.

Furthermore, the Christian lives by faith depending upon the righteousness that is in Christ, not of ourselves. Romans 1:17, Gal. 3:11.
---lee1538 on 3/2/12


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TheSeq //If you agree Christ did everything and you believe that!
Then there nothing for you to do!
---
While we can do nothing for our salvation as it is wholly of God, we still have the problem of our Christian walk. Our rest is in Christ for our salvation.

As new creation in Christ wrought by God's Spirit, we continue to have a conflict with the flesh until we reach the final stage of sanctification. Read Romans 7.
---lee1538 on 3/2/12


Hi, Simmons (c: There are commands that it appears are not what God tells us to do, now . . . like stoning a man who rapes another man's fiance > Deuteronomy 22:23-26 > "for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter." So, a sexual crime to be like murder. And murder is a work of a hateful heart (1 John 3:15), not just misguided sexual impulses. So, we can learn from this command, how God wants us to love people, not to desire to just use them for sexual pleasure. Or else we are anti-love. So, each command can help us learn how to love.
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/2/12


Save by Grace alone. But those who are saved love GOD and love others which shows.

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
---Samuel on 3/2/12


LEE, GOD says that we cannot enter Heaven by works of the Law. That being so that NO MAN will be able to boast about how they made their own way into Heaven by keeping the Law. And, the truth IS, is that, we couldn't obey the Law by our own strength anyhow because the desire to sin is too strong of a pull with our sinful FLESH nature. So, by Faith in YAHUSHUA, Who atones for our sin, by His Blood, we can have access to the filling of the Holy Spirit Who ENABLES us to live according to the Laws of GOD. To HIS Commands. YAHUSHUA says that if we love Him, we will OBEY His Commands. WHAT Commands, then? The Two Greatest Commands, no? The 10 Commandments ARE the "essence" of the Two Greatest Commands!
---Gordon on 3/2/12


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Well lee
If you agree Christ did everything and you believe that!
Then there nothing for you to do!
Then you must know this is the rest he is talking about!
Not a Saturday rest, but a final rest!
A day when you put aside everything you think you have to do.
For you know it was all done, already!

Moreover if you know he did it because he loves you!
How should you feel about me? Shouldnt you love me?
Enough to forgive me all, just like Christ, forgave you?
How can you be in Christ and not be a son of God?

Two things:
This is his rest, and this is his love!
Enter in as I have loved you!
God bless you!
---TheSeg on 3/1/12


TheSeq//Lee why do you think The Lord is telling you to rest from your works.

Those who have believed have enter that rest.

Hebrews 4:3,10-11 For we who have believed enter that rest, .for whoever has entered Gods rest (by believing) has also rested from his works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.

Christ did all that was necessary for us at the Cross, we need only believe.

//I know I stand alone most of the time.

With regard to what stand you take on moral issues this can be commendable of you, however, not necessarily what you would believe theologically.
---lee1538 on 3/1/12


Gordon,

Jesus in Mt. 22 actually stated that the ESSENCE OF ALL THE LAW was to love God and to love ones neighbor.

He did not specifically say the 10 commandments were a break-down of the 2 greater commandments.

When asked what was the greatest command in the law, Jesus did not reply with any of the Exodus 20 ten commandments.

The law was but a schoolmaster or guardian for us until we could come to faith in Christ.

Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

You really need the law if you have not been justified by faith.
---lee1538 on 3/1/12


lee1538

Gen_2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Heb_4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Lee why do you think The Lord is telling you to rest from your works.
I know I stand alone most of the time.
But if you really look at, all things were finished from the foundation of the world.
Then what is there left for you to do, but believe?
You really believe God is talking about resting your body?
Your body?

Mat_7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/1/12


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Gordon//Lee, Do you say that the 10 Commandments have "nothing to do with loving one's neighbour"? Read ROMANS 13:8-10!!!
---
Read again my posts! I merely stated the Sabbath commandment has nothing to do with love of neighbor.

Neither does the law regarding circumcision- a law more important to be performed than observance of the Sabbath (John 7:22). THINK ON THIS ONE!

Romans 13:10 merely states that the essence of the commandments whatever they may be, is simply love of neighbor and that is what fulfills the law.

Adventism, OTOH, attempts to force the believer away from living by faith into living by the law and worst yet, selective OT laws not found in the New Covenant. Romans 1:17, Gal. 3:11
---lee1538 on 3/1/12


Gordon //The FIRST FOUR Commands deal with LOVING GOD! The LAST SIX Commands pertain to loving your neighbour as yourself! So, the 4th Command of the Sabbath deals with your Relationship with GOD. Honouring HIM on the Day of Rest!

That was what one is often taught but have you ever questioned that teaching?

One truly loves God by the way one treats his neighbor, not by observing some ritualistic or ceremonial type law as is the Sabbath.

Mt 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them (those that gave water to the thirty, fed the hungry, clothed the naked etc.), Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
---lee1538 on 3/1/12


LEE1538, As I've mentioned before: The Ten Commandments are a break-down of the Two Greatest Commandments. The Two Greatest Commandments are to first love GOD with your whole being. And, then, to love your neighbour as yourself (See MATTHEW 22:36-40). YAHUSHUA says that on these two Greatest Commands "hang all the Law and the Prophets." The FIRST FOUR Commands deal with LOVING GOD! The LAST SIX Commands pertain to loving your neighbour as yourself! So, the 4th Command of the Sabbath deals with your Relationship with GOD. Honouring HIM on the Day of Rest! AND, Lee, Do you say that the 10 Commandments have "nothing to do with loving one's neighbour"? Read ROMANS 13:8-10!!!
---Gordon on 3/1/12


LEE, The Law of the 10 Commandments is telling us to love GOD and to love our neighbour by virtue of what it's telling us what to and what not to do! Obeying the 10 Commands IS showing love towards our neigbour!
---Gordon on 3/1/12


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TheSeq//The 4th commandment has everything to-do with loving your neighbor!
Its one of the last things God told you to do.

One may observe the Sabbath and be all by himself, no involvement with anyone.

The verses you quote pertain to that rest believers enter into. It is not a day but into a relationship. We need not strive for our salvation once we enter into God's rest.
---lee1538 on 3/1/12


Exactly!
Now try to understand what you wrote.
---TheSeg on 2/29/12


//You agree, but only to a point. Because of this other power!// theSeg

again, you twist and mock.

//I tell you almighty God is the only power there is.//

Again, Paul writes a different message:

Eph_6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Col_1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col_2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers,..., triumphing over them in it.
---aka on 2/29/12


Is this not clear? ---TheSeg on 2/29/12

the scripture, yes. you, no.
---aka on 2/29/12


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What has the 4th commandment to do with love of neighbor?
If you answered Nothing, you got the right answer.
lee1538 on 2/29/12

Lee, I know I am no one to talk!
The 4th commandment has everything to-do with loving your neighbor!
Its one of the last things God told you to do.

Heb_4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb_4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb_4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb_4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Peace!
---TheSeg on 2/29/12


Yet Jesus did not pick form the 10 when choosing the greatest commandments..
He picked from the Law of Moses.
And basically said the whole OT fell under these two commands.
Why go back to the old when it's all wrapped up for us and the old is ready to perish?
---micha9344 on 2/29/12


Gordon - true, howbeit, the 10 commandments does NOT tell us to love our neigbor but love of neighbor fulfills the law, does it not? Romans 13:9f

The priest & the Levite in the story of the good Samaritan were NOT guilty of breaking any of the commandments (Luke 30:30f) however they were condemned by Christ.

And that is the point, Adventist maintain that the fruitage of being a Christian is obedience to the 10 commandments, however the 10 commandments alone do NOT fulfill the requirments of the law.

What has the 4th commandment to do with love of nieghbor? If you answered Nothing, you got the right answer.
---lee1538 on 2/29/12


LEE, Kicking the daylights out of someone is a form of Murder. How? Because you would only kick the daylights out of someone if you hated them. To hate someone in your heart is also Murder. Because, the act of physically killing or murdering someone starts with the feelings of hatred in one's heart for someone. Thus, kicking the daylights out of someone would be categorized under the Command of "Thou shalt not kill."
---Gordon on 2/29/12


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Mark, I just cant believe this! The very people who say, God is in control!
Are the very first to say he is not in full control. All the time insisting, this is not what theyre saying.
But clearly trying to teach that there is some unknown power, where clearly there is none.
There by teaching one should believe a lie.

Then to top it off they tell us we must fight scripture?
Aka-AGAIN, address the Lord not me. unless you also deny Paul. if so, we cannot have a reasonable discussion.

Now thats funny, a reasonable discussion.
I tell you almighty God is the only power there is.
You agree, but only to a point. Because of this other power!
Is this not clear?
---TheSeg on 2/29/12


"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

The "power" Satan has over the "children of disobedience" is simply "he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do". Who "granted" Satan this power? Yes, none other than God Almighty. The "power" given to Satan is the "power of deception".

Satan serves God's Holy purpose as Solomon declared in Proverbs 16:4, "The LORD hath made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
---christan on 2/29/12


//Aka, who is the one and only God of this world? //

2Co_4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

AGAIN, address the Lord not me. unless you also deny Paul. if so, we cannot have a reasonable discussion.

but, let's go back:
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world, now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world..."

then:
Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
---aka on 2/29/12


The Seg, thanks for your answer. The passage that implies satan has blinded the minds of the lost is interpreted wrong. First. Satan is not Omnipotent. He has no power to blind all these individuals. Second, he is not Omniscient, but one single fallen spirit, for him to blind all the lost would be an impossible task. All that are born are already born blind to the truth, and he did not bring physical life to them God did. If you notice that many are born at the same time, impossible for satan to be everywhere at the same time. I could not get that point across to someone else because right away I got redicule for saying what I did. God is the God of heaven and earth. Almighty God is the Ultimate power.
---Mark_V. on 2/29/12


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YHWH commandments are still important not the rituals of the letter but the observance of them, and if it were not so Christ would not have asked the rich man if he obeyed them first to show that it was not only the commandments but also the love of money, greed and selfishness above all having the ability to love and forgive... that also matters along side the commandments statues ordinances precepts and so forth,prayer worship, leadership, it all matters as it is written not as the Europeans and Americans(shipwrecked) preached it.

---Carla on 2/29/12


Aka, who is the one and only God of this world?

John 9, is a story about a man who was born blind.
The disciples asked Christ who sin that he was born blind.
Joh_9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

The Lord Jesus Christ, said the reason this man was born blind!
Was so God would be made manifest in him and for no other reason!

Was this man keeping the Commandments?
Did this man even believe in God?

Two things I do see:
He knew something about the law.
Joh 9:31-33
And he had no idea who Jesus is.
Joh 9:36-38
Just like so many today!
Peace
---TheSeg on 2/28/12


//If you want to believe the devil has some unknown power over you and people. // theSeg

again, not something i said. i said, "satan has power over what they see, think, and imagine. "

power over the things that i see, think, and imagine and not power over me.

2Co_4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

he has the power to BLIND MINDS. So, your argument is no longer with me, but the author of the Bible.
---aka on 2/28/12


//Satan has power ...temporal... but he has power. //---aka on 2/27/12

//Aka, so now its temporal!// TheSeg on 2/28/12

//I do but only for a season.// ---aka on 2/27/12

i never changed my original stance. yes, ultimate power is God's, but He does allow other influences (see Job...et al).

you pull out a few scriptures and animatedly point out my stupidity according to you.

your universalism works for you, but i do not see it supported by all scripture.
---aka on 2/28/12


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Simmons: As long as it is still relevant for parents to give instructions to their children today, then the commandments(instructions) of God/Jesus are still VERY relevant to/for us today(for life).
---Adetunji on 2/28/12


Simmons: As long as it is still relevant for parents to give instructions to their children today, then the commandments(instructions) of God/Jesus are still VERY relevant to/for us today(for life).
---Adetunji on 2/28/12


Aka, so now its temporal!

Im going to tell you something. Do with it what you will. The only power is of God! There is no other power!

If you want to believe the devil has some unknown power over you and people. I tell you again, I have seen no such power!

Rom_13:1--For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Act_1:22--must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Act_10:42--he commanded us, preach, testify that it is he which was ordained of God
Act_13:48--and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Mat_11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Believe what you want!
Bye
---TheSeg on 2/28/12


Lee: "Matthew 5:17 states that Christ came to fulfill the law and that is exactly what He did."

Yes, but you don't understand what "fulfil" means. You think that fulfil means to destroy the Law. But Jesus said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

In view of your penchant for pseudonyms, and in keeping with what you are called in heaven, I think you should be called LEEST rather than LEE.


---jerry6593 on 2/28/12


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By keeping his commandments you mean the first two, not the old 10, or old and detailed 613---is that right?
---atheist on 2/27/12


Gordon: No doubt you are a SDA holding same doctrinal views as Francis that we non-SDAs here are unsaved because we believe we are saved by grace and NOT works of the law.

Apart from SDAs own obvious failure at justification through the law (especially as they don't observe Sabbath correctly), you should be concerned about scriptures such as the following:

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW, ye are FALLEN FROM GRACE." Gal 5:4
"if it's of works then it is NO MORE GRACE," Rom 11:6

You can't mix law and grace as the above shows. Why do it then?
---Haz27 on 2/27/12


Can one keep the commandments and not love his neighbor? Can I beat the tar out of another and still follow all the commandments?
---lee1538 on 2/26/12

As I stated, the 10 commandments has little or nothing to do with love of neighbor as I can kick the daylight out of Francis and not be found violating any of the big 10.
---lee1538 on 1/22/12

INTERESTING
---francis on 2/26/12

I say stone him!
Come on francis, you know that was funny!
---TheSeg on 2/26/12

What makes if truely funny is his sincerity
---francis on 2/27/12


The ultimate law is LOVE as spoken of by Jesus. The two commandments fall under this law. The ten commandments fall under the two. The 613 commandments fall under the ten. For it is love, genuine love, of God and neighbor that will get a person into heaven.

The law/covenant is like a home mortgage - same laws, different terms. OT shows the physical side of the law, NT shows the spiritual side of the law. For the OT law says not to murder your brother, but the NT law says that even if you think about it (hate) you have commited murder. The new covenant is much more difficult to obey.

Only love, genuine love, will get a person into heaven. You show your love of God by keeping his commandments.
---Steveng on 2/27/12


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Where does scripture say "Satan or the devil has been given Power on Earth!---TheSeg

my words were not a direct quotation from scripture and i never said that they were. it was extrapolation. nevertheless, 2Co 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

unbelievers live on earth. satan has power over what they see, think, and imagine. therefore, "Satan or the devil has been given Power on Earth!"

Mat 4:9 ...And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."

Satan has power to give away ...temporal...but he has power.
---aka on 2/27/12


Aka
It only stands to reason that we would get more of an understanding about Scriptures if we come more acquainted with its building blocks.
aka almost to the point.

Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Would it hold true, if they believed he would have been able to do more.

Seg said: Then you must believe like so many, the devil has power on earth.

Aka: I do but only for a season. It also says that in scripture.

Where does scripture say "Satan or the devil has been given Power on Earth!"

Peace
---TheSeg on 2/27/12


//if striving to follow the 10 Commandments only causes us to want to break them, then, THAT'S when we are to call on GOD to strengthen us to obey HIM.

But instead of observing law, we walk by faith in the grace provided by His Spirit.

Ro 5:20-21 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
---lee1538 on 2/27/12


from How Can I Be Saved (closed blog)
Seg said: Do you really believe there a fake gospel going round out there?

It says so in scripture.

Seg said: Then you must believe like so many, the devil has power on earth.

I do but only for a season. It also says that in scripture.

I also believe that there is only one Way (which is in the scripture) and you believe there are many paths.
---aka on 2/27/12


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JAMES L, Okay, if striving to follow the 10 Commandments only causes us to want to break them, then, THAT'S when we are to call on GOD to strengthen us to obey HIM. Of course our flesh is going to fight against walking in the Spirit of Righteousness and Holiness, the Bible tells us that this will happen (See GALATIONS 5:16-17.) We are to call on GOD to strengthen us and we are to CHOOSE to follow the Spirit and not our fleshly lusts. We are not to fight against obeying GOD's Commands. We are to take control of our choices, day-by-day. Be lead by the Spirit's Guidance. At least make that our goal.
---Gordon on 2/27/12


Clarence, you may want to read further in Mat 19.
Keeping the 10 commandments was not enough, and according to other scripture, it wasn't even made for the righteous.
So, there is a problem with people trying to obtain righteousness by the law when the law doesn't even apply to the righteous.
---micha9344 on 2/27/12


Mt 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Francis, do you think your rigtheousness you gain thru obedience to the law would exceed that of the scribes & Pharisees - the sabbath keeping and law promoting enemies of Christ?

Indeed those that think they can gain favor with God thru obedience to law are truly the enemies of Christ since they have fallen from grace (if they were ever there in the first place).Gal. 5:4

Romans 4:14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
---lee1538 on 2/27/12


Jerry//I just checked outside, and heaven and earth are still here. One can almost hear the voices from heaven saying "Lee is least!"
---
Yes, I can see that you truly believe Jesus accomplished nothing when He was on earth, that the Old Covenant laws are still in effect.

Matthew 5:17 states that Christ came to fulfill the law and that is exactly what He did.

Yes, if the tenets of the Old Covenant were still in effect, nearly all Christians would be the least in the Kingdom because very few Christian believe OT law is binding on them as the righteous live by faith (Rom. 1:17, Gal. 3:11) in the New Covenant.
---lee1538 on 2/27/12


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Can one keep the commandments and not love his neighbor? Can I beat the tar out of another and still follow all the commandments?
---lee1538 on 2/26/12

As I stated, the 10 commandments has little or nothing to do with love of neighbor as I can kick the daylight out of Francis and not be found violating any of the big 10.
---lee1538 on 1/22/12

INTERESTING
---francis on 2/26/12

I say stone him!
Come on francis, you know that was funny!

Lee you have read the story, Luk 10:30!
You are just playing right?
If not read Mar 12:9-11
And yes you are!
Peace
---TheSeg on 2/26/12


If anyone wants to call themselves Christians they must follow Christ's teaching.Mtt,19:16-19, keep the ten commandments.
---Clarence on 2/26/12


Those 10 commandments are worthless for 2 reasons - Christ fulfilled the law, and trying to observe the law only makes your flesh want to break the law.
--James_L on 2/26/12
Maybe it only makes you want to break the law

NT commands after the death of Jesus:

Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise,

Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more:

Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another,

1 Cor6:18 Flee fornication.

1 John 5:21 keep yourselves from idols
Titus 2:5 the word of God be not blasphemed.

I could give all ten

If they were wothless do you think the apostles would take time to teach them?
---francis on 2/26/12


Yes. Generally God has 2 Commandments that he requires all people to obey:

1. You will love the Lord God with all your heart and life and conscience and might.
2. You will love others as you love yourself.

On these 2 commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Many people will keep the 1st commandment, but the 2nd commandment to love others, or do and say to others exactly what you want others to do and say to you, they do not do.
---Eloy on 2/26/12


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Lee: "Even someone with kindergarden knowledge of scripture ....

And just how does your kindergarten class reconcile these words of Christ?

Mat 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: ... Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I just checked outside, and heaven and earth are still here. One can almost hear the voices from heaven saying "Lee is least!"
---jerry6593 on 2/27/12


Francis//Which of these is not important and why?
---
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Even someone with kindergarden knowledge of scripture may be able to tell you that the Sabbath commandment was fulfilled in the ministry of Christ. As a matter of fact, there is NO command given in the New covenant to observe any day as holy and even 2 Cor. 3:7,9 calls the 10 commandments (written in letters of stone), the ministry of death & condemnation.

I really wish that you would find a church that truly teaches the word of God instead of that delivered by Ellen White 'attending angel' who really taught a different gospel and another Jesus. Gal. 1:8
---lee1538 on 2/26/12


francis,
Is it safe to assume that you really desire to kill, steal, lie, set up graven images, etc?

And the only thing keeping you from doing them is that God said don't?

I used to drive around, constantly looking for speed limit signs and checking my speedometer, making sure to "observe" the speed limit.

Why would I make certain to observe the speed limit laws, unless I was susceptible to breaking to law?

Those 10 commandments are worthless for 2 reasons - Christ fulfilled the law, and trying to observe the law only makes your flesh want to break the law.

Get out from under the Law, it does your spirit no good
---James_L on 2/26/12


Which of these is not important and why?

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,..to bow down to
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 2/26/12


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Jesus summarized the commandments in two: 1) Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.
These commandments, if fulfilled through the Spirit, fulfill ALL of the law. Unfortunately, only Jesus could do this, since He is God. Therefore, we look to the Old Testament commandments for clarification. But, again, Jesus's two commandments, if understood and followed by the Spirit, will naturally cause us to fulfill the ten commandments in our lives. The ten commandments should only serve as a reminder. We must recognize the law as an unemployed tutor, since we now have a higher law: the law of Love and the law of liberty (James 2:8)
---louia7797 on 2/26/12


Can one keep the commandments and not love his neighbor? Can I beat the tar out of another and still follow all the commandments?
---lee1538 on 2/26/12

As I stated, the 10 commandments has little or nothing to do with love of neighbor as I can kick the daylight out of Francis and not be found violating any of the big 10.
---lee1538 on 1/22/12

INTERESTING
---francis on 2/26/12


As for the commandments being relevant today Romans 13:9-10 is very plain.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, not kill, not steal, not bear false witness, not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. For love of neighbor fulfills the law.

Can one keep the commandments and not love his neighbor? Can I beat the tar out of another and still follow all the commandments?
---lee1538 on 2/26/12


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