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Creating The Universe Quickly

Creating the universe and everything in it in 144 hours; fact or fantasy?

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 ---1st_cliff on 3/3/12
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Jerry //My God wrote:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth
----
God speaks to people in terms they can understand.For instance, God's word refers to the 4 corners of the world as people viewed the world differently. However, from a more scientific and reasonable standpoint, it is more rational to view the creation of the world in periods of time rather than just 24 hour days.

Your problem is that you have very little support for observing the Jewish Sabbath that you have to hold the position that all creation days had to be 24 hours. It amazes me that you have a scientific degree and cannot conceive of an interpretation that is more in line with the scientific world.
---lee1538 on 3/14/12


Leest: "Perhaps your god is a very small and impotent god."

My God wrote:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth

Your god is a liar!



Weak Hatchet: The name you chose for CN is arrogant and self-aggrandizing. If I were to act like you, I would choose "HolyGenius" or some such. You have proven that you are not "strong" in the scriptures, and are thus unworthy of the name "StrongAxe".


---jerry6593 on 3/14/12


Warwick, I feel your frustration.
Does it seem reasonable that God would make a temporary fixed light source then replace it with the sun?
If this was just to demonstrate light and darkness,who was the demonstration for,seeing that no one was there yet???
---1st_cliff on 3/14/12


/Lee, God was not forced to create in 6 days. Where do you get such strange ideas?

My ideas are either from scripture or from good sense.

Sorry that you refuse to believe God created the universe at His word, that He did not need a watch or had to wait 24 hours to separate events.

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Yes, it is strange to us that something could be created out of nothing.

Perhaps your god is a very small and impotent god.
---lee1538 on 3/13/12


Cliff, my answers were not posted.

You asked "Since the sun did not appear on day one, you're suggesting that God himself was the light?" I suggest nothing. God says He created light, making the first ever day!

And "Then where did the "darkness"come from?" Anyone looking at the earth from space can see it is always part in the light and part in darkness. As it has been from "Let there be light." All that is needed is a fixed light source. That there was light and dark, the first day is evidence that this light was fixed.

And "How do you figure the "darkness" with no sun reference?" This question assumes God cannot light the earth without the sun!
---Warwick on 3/13/12




jerry6593:

Why do you mock my name? By the Golden Rule, does this mean you want others to mock yours as well?

Isaiah 28:22 "Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong..."
Jeremiah 15:17 "I sat not in the assembly of the mockers..."
Jude 1:18 "How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time..."

Please specifically point out ONE THING that Genesis ACTUALLY SAYS that I denied. I am takng issue NOT with those, but with things that Warwick ASSUMES that are between the lines, and not written.

I did not question "six days". I just keep pointing out that we do not have enough information to tell HOW LONG the first few of those days were.
---StrongAxe on 3/13/12


Warwick, Dodging my Qs again?
Difficult enough to get posted,but then ignore Question?
---1st_cliff on 3/13/12


Lee, God was not forced to create in 6 days. Where do you get such strange ideas?

In reality God chose to create in 6 days as Scripture says. God describes the 6 days of creation as: the first, second,third, fourth, fifth, and sixth days.

No vague "time periods" here.

This is confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11 where God tells the Israelites-work 6 days and rest the 7th. Why are they to do this? God says they are to do this because He created in 6 days and rested the 7th. Some would have us believe God did not create in six days, but deceitfully said He did. What, right in the middle of the 10 Commandments, God has lied? How far you have strayed from the truth that you accuse God of lying!
---Warwick on 3/13/12


The view that God had to create the earth in 6 periods of 24 hours each is really based upon speculation, not on any known facts derived from scripture.

God is omnipotent and by His Word the worlds came into existence. He did not have to look at His watch to decide when the next event would take place. Ps. 33:6, Heb. 11:3

The problem on this issue seems to lie with those that are Sabbaterians who need all the support they can muster in justify observance of the olde Jewish Sabbath since there is not so much as a hint of a command in the New Covenant to observe any day.
---lee1538 on 3/13/12


Weah Hatchet: You can't seem to make up your mind whether God's word is true (For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth) or there MAY be another explanation that would allow the theories of your college professors to be true.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him.


---jerry6593 on 3/13/12




StrongAxe, again you ignore what Scripture says.

As the sun was created on day 4, and days were counted before that, there must be SOME OTHER MEASURE than "earth rotating with respect to the sun", and we DO NOT KNOW what that was.

This is not ignoring what scripture SAYS, but what it does NOT SAY.

You said: It is obvious to anyone without a nonBiblical barrow to push that the light which God created on day 1 was a fixed light source as is the sun.

HOW is this "obvious"?

Those who champion days not being 24 hrs...

Nowhere have I "championed days not being 24 hrs". I have been consistently saying, while they MAY be 24 hours, the Bible does NOT actually say so.
---StrongAxe on 3/12/12


StrongAxe, again you ignore what Scripture says.

In Genesis 1:3-5 God says He created light and this light brought about the first, and second, and third days. He then created the sun which brought about the fourth, fifth,and sixth days. All described the same way and described the same-six days-in Exodus 20:8-11.

It is obvious to anyone without a nonBiblical barrow to push that the light which God created on day 1 was a fixed light source as is the sun.

No matter how you duck and weave the obvious truth is there for all to observe.

Those who champion days not being 24 hrs do so in the vain attempt to fit long-ages/evolution into Genesis. This brings death before sin undermining the gospel.
---Warwick on 3/12/12


Jervy,

Mollusks do not want to become men.

At least I have seen no evidence or claims for such...Do you think mollusks have a consciousness that complex to have such thoughts?

The only closed system to new information seems to be between your ears.
---atheist on 3/12/12


Warwick:

Contrary to yet another of your false claims, I have never once said God needs a sun to light the earth. He doesn't, because there was light and darkness on the first day. The issue is NOT lighting the earth, but there being a sun, which is a LOCALIZED POINT OF REFERENCE to measure days. If there is just a bunch of light around that is not in one particular place, one cannot use it as a point of reference to measure rotation.

If you take a blindfolded man into dark room with a single light in it, and spin him around, he can tell how often you spun him by alernating light and dark on the blindfold. But take him into a room full of ceiling fluorescents, and he can't use them as a reference and tell how often he spun around.
---StrongAxe on 3/12/12


A theist: The earth is indeed a closed system to new information. The instructions for DNA modifications to create new species is not found in sunlight. Then where do those instructions come from? What is the driving force that causes a mollusk to want to become a man? Is it another of your "unknown natural forces", or is it the "flying spagetti monster" that you worship?


---jerry6593 on 3/12/12


Warwick' Your argument is not all that cut and dried.
Since the sun did not appear on day one, you're suggesting that God himself was the light?
Then where did the "darkness"come from?
Darkness is always on the opposite side of earth from the sun.
Did he turn the light off and on? If He Himself was the light then there would be no darkness!
How do you figure the "darkness" with no sun reference?
---1st_cliff on 3/12/12


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StrongAxe, Genesis 1:3-5 'And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.'

God created light (not lights) which brought about the first ever day. Too simple, totally straight-forward with no inference but plain fact. You are the one who infers, inferring that God needs the sun (a created entity) to light the earth. But he clearly says He doesn't. But you refuse to believe Him.
---Warwick on 3/12/12


Atheist, And where do you think chemicals came from? and consciousness, where from? Who do you think holds this magnanimous orb up in space, called earth, and spins it like a top in mid space while keeping all the millions of gallons of oceans with all of its fishes and all the peoples and animals and cars and buildings on the earth? and who keeps this spinning and revolving orb at the meticulous distance from the sun so as not to move too close or smash into the firey and blazing sun and thereby totally obliterating and incinerating his planet? who brings the rain, and the air to breathe? Who declares the end from the beginning? It's easy, God Almighty, Christ Jesus the Maker of all.
---Eloy on 3/11/12


Warwick:

You infer there was a sun on day 1 because there were no other lights. How can you know this? Genesis says light and darkness. Period. There was no differention between different kinds of lights or numbers of lights.

SEVERAL DAYS LATER, God separated the sun, and moon, and stars. To assume that before this it was the sun ONLY and not moon and stars is pure imagination. Why could't one just as easily assume it was the moon only? Why the sun?

Again and again, you assume facts not in evidence, but read between the lines to shoehorn the Bible to make it defend your own theory.
---StrongAxe on 3/11/12


StrongAxe, you wrote:

"Whether there was light or not is also not relevant, because we define a day as earth's rotation with respect to the SUN, not to "light", because there are lights in all directions, and without as specific one, you can't have a frame of reference.."

And

"That there was a FIXED light source before the sun is PURE IMAGINATION on your part."

But God says He created light beginning the daytime nighttime cycle, as today, as from day 1. There were no other lights on day 1! All following 5 days are described identically therefore the original light from God was also a fixed light source. Believers will see it in heaven for all eternity.
---Warwick on 3/11/12


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Warwick:

You said: God says He created light making an evening and morning day but you reject this.

I never rejected that, so saying I did was a lie. (If not, show me EXACTLY when I rejected THIS VERSE).

You said: StrongAxe I have not lied., then went on about the Bible. What the Bible says is NOT RELEVANT to whether *I* said something.

You said: Twenty four hour days, as man has always lived, are measured by one rotation of the earth in relation to a fixed light source.

Not quite. Every day AS MAN HAS LIVED has been measured by relation to the SUN. Genesis never says "fixed light source". That there was a FIXED light source before the sun is PURE IMAGINATION on your part.
---StrongAxe on 3/11/12


"What then do you think is the driving force and creative intelligence that propels Evolution in an upward direction counter to the flow of entropy?"

Where do you get this stuff? Evolution theory never proposes an "upward direction." Entropy does not apply because the earth is not a closed system. Have you seen the sun lately? Step outside---it produces great light and an abundance of energy.

I am not walking into any more of you piles of equine fecal boluses.
---atheist on 3/11/12


A theist: "I have no theory of chemical consciousness."

OK. What then do you think is the driving force and creative intelligence that propels Evolution in an upward direction counter to the flow of entropy?


---jerry6593 on 3/11/12


Atheist I tgink the idea of chemical consciousness is akin to believing there are fairies in your garden.

You push the idea that Christians are ignorant people. Therefore I told you a little about Professor Smalley, recipient of the Nobel Prize for Chemistry. He was challenged to reinvestigate evolution and found it to be "bad science' which lead to him considering the alternative which lead to him becoming a Christian. I ask you again is he also an ignorant man?
---Warwick on 3/11/12


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Jerry,

I have no theory of chemical consciousness, I simply asked Warwick if he thought it was possible.
---atheist on 3/10/12


StrongAxe I have not lied.

Twenty four hour days, as man has always lived, are measured by one rotation of the earth in relation to a fixed light source. Genesis 1:3-5 shows the light source does not have to be the sun. God created light "and there was evening and there was morning, the first day." As Exodus 20:8-11 confirms these were 6+ 1 consecutive, 24hr days. You unwillingness to accept this is Biblioscepticism.

If you believed Scripture as written you would not be trying to evade what it says. I have not misrepresented you. Yours is a position which lacks faith in God.
---Warwick on 3/10/12


A theist: On your theory of chemical consciousness, is each element conscious as Warwick has experienced, or is it a collective, perhaps molecular, consciousness? Is this consciousness the driving force and creative intelligence that propels Evolution in an upward direction counter to the flow of entropy? How would you go about testing your theory?


Gordon: I concur completely. I can understand why the atheist doesn't believe the simple, straightforward truths of the Bible, but there is no excuse for a person who claims to be a Christian to argue that the Bible doesn't really mean what it clearly says.


---jerry6593 on 3/10/12


If GOD CAN create everything in 144 hours, why argue that HE didn't, when the Scriptures DO say that GOD created the Heavens and the Earth in 6 Days? Some people are making this more complicated than it really is. Time is wasted by bantering back-and-forth about this. Just accept the Written Word of GOD at face-value, when it makes sense at face-value. Can GOD create all within 6 Days or 144 Hours? Can HE? HE can? The Bible says HE did. So, just accept it. Take it all in Faith that HE did so. You'll see the Truth clearly, if you do.
---Gordon on 3/10/12


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Hey Atheist we all know Occams razor evolved into a machette ages ago.

Chemicals have a hidden life? You are getting a little out there man. Shh, wats that? Sorry Atheist calcium was just talking to me!

You are correct my man, my view definitely shrinks things, right back to reality.
---Warwick on 3/9/12


Holy Scripture does not make the claim GOD created the earth and the universe in 144 hours

as the divine creator of all I'm sure HE could blink and create much more than the universe and the galaxy this earth spins in

Holy Scripture states GOD restored the earth in 6 days then rested on the seventh as True Believers mark themselves as HIS by keeping HIS 7th day Holy
---Rhonda on 3/9/12


Warwick:

You said: God says He created light making an evening and morning day but you reject this. Such ardent scepticism from someone claiming to be Christian!

I NEVER SAID THAT. Please stop continuously lying about what I say. I said the SUN was not yet created, NOT light. Even with light there, one could not measure days by rotation of earth with respect to light, because there was no point of reference (sun). I did NOT say light did not exist. Comment on what I ACTUALLY said, not what you read between the lines.

You insist on the literal truth of Genesis. Yet when I take it strictly literally, based on what it says, but not what it does not say, you call me a biblio-skeptic. I find this very ironic.
---StrongAxe on 3/9/12


Seriously, blind faith versus faith. That is walking barefoot along Occam's razor...

How do you know that chemicals are not alive, or have a consciousness that you cannot sense? Your view of things so shrinks the universe and its possibilities.
---atheist on 3/9/12


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StrongAxe, your BiblioSceptic attitude grows. God says He created light making an evening and morning day but you reject this. Such ardent scepticism from someone claiming to be Christian!

'And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."

So between "In the beginning" and "there was evening and there was morning, the first day" you claim we cannot know when God created light! That is truly ridiculous.

Genesis does say how long the days were, as confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11.
---Warwick on 3/9/12


Atheist, you need to think more carefully. I believe Scripture by faith, but not blind faith because the available evidence supports Genesis creation, not evolution.

You talk of mythology while believeing dead chemicals formed themselves into living self-replicating creatures. As GK Chesterton wrote-when men stop believing in God it is not that they believe in nothing but that they will believe anything.

It is interesting to speak with or read about exAtheists (scientist or lay) who once believed in evolution but changed their mind when they studied it and found what they had uncritically accepted to be implausible. Noble Chemistry prize winner Professor Rick Smalley is just one of many. Is he also ignorant about science Atheist?
---Warwick on 3/9/12


Warwick,

There is also no scientific evidence that people didn't live for 1,000,000 years on a diet of only goat dung, and that "fact" was left out the the bible mythology.
---atheist on 3/9/12


Warwick:

Yes, yes, there WAS a day and night on the first day. Those days may even have been 24 hours long. Genesis doesn't say. But those days COULD NOT have been marked by the earth's rotation with respect to the sun, since there was no sun to mark it.

Also Revelation said God gave them light. But it doesn't say which day he gave it, so it is irrelevant to his discussion.

Whether there was light or not is also not relevant, because we define a day as earth's rotation with respect to the SUN, not to "light", because there are lights in all directions, and without as specific one, you can't have a frame of reference.
---StrongAxe on 3/9/12


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StrongAxe I think:

"And there was evening and there was morning-the first day."
"And there was evening and there was morning-the second day.....the third day" makes is abundantly clear that (as always) daytime follows nighttime and day 2 follows day 1, this is chronological. just as Exodus 20:8-11 says.

You keep on about the sun when God does not need it for light. Revelation 22:5 "They will not need....the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light." As recorded in Genesis 1:3-5 God created light, He called the light day and the darkness he called night. And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.

But you infer He is wrong!
---Warwick on 3/8/12


Atheist on what scientific basis can you say Jerry is incorrect about people once living c1,000 years?

Of course if you cannot give scientific proof of your contention you, by your own admission, are also a goathearder aren't you?

But do atheists believe in goats?
---Warwick on 3/8/12


A theist: "I can't believe the stuff I bothered to argue with you about when you so freely make-up [sic] and believe stuff like this."

I didn't make up (note: two words) the lifespans, I got it from the Bible. I'll bet that you believe that men started as brute beasts and evolved to the mental giants they now are, don't you? And where did you get that silly notion? From crazy uncle Charlie, no doubt.

And no, I don't think that dementia was the problem for ancients as it is for modern man.


---jerry6593 on 3/8/12


Warwick:

You are ASSUMING that Genesis 1:1 is chronologically earlier, and from this assumption, reading between the lines of later verses. You conclude that the same word "must" refer to two different things, not because the grammar requires it, but because your preconception does.

Why not admit that it is possible that 1:1 could be a synopsis of the rest of the chapter?

And regardless of when the heavens and earth, the sun was NOT created until several days later, so we are STILL missing a vital piece of day measurement.
---StrongAxe on 3/7/12


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"They also lived for almost 1000 years, and in that time could amass (and remember) enormous knowledge, which they could pass down directly to many generations of children's children."

No senior dementia or Alzheimers?

I can't believe the stuff I bothered to argue with you about when you so freely make-up and believe stuff like this.

If you could store and remember 800 years of information, how many years would it take to teach it? And if you students were you children and got a little disrespectful you would have to take them and stone them. All that wasted teaching....sad...
---atheist on 3/7/12


Warwick, Sometimes on here,my best argumentation gets lost somewhere in cyberspace.
Hard to defend yourself with one hand tied behind your back!
---1st_cliff on 3/7/12


StrongAxe, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God,"

By the heavens I think it clear God is talking of the heavens above, the splendour of which we see on a dark night.

As the heavens have now been made God probably figured out He did not have to make them again! So we have to consider what God meant in 1:8. The word in both cases is 'samiyim' which means the heavens, as in the abode of the stars and the sky, the air, depending upon context. Too easy: no. 1 the heavens is the abode of the stars, and no.2 is the earth's atmosphere, the 'expanse' (Hebrew raqia) as it is called.
---Warwick on 3/6/12


Cliff, without proof you stated as fact writing did not exist before 4,000BC. That is why I wrote absence of proof is not proof of absence. God created Adam and Eve fully functioning adults. Therefore on what logical grounds (as you have no contrary proof) do you say they could not write?" Do you imagine God could not create them this way? The Genesis 5:1 toledoth is good evidence (not proof. Know the difference?) He did write.

If your faith limited to what can be proved? This is no faith at all.

Hebrews 11:3 "By faith we understand .the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible." Do you agree or should he have demanded proof?
---Warwick on 3/6/12


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There are no pre-flood written records (or cities) because they would have been hopelessly buried in the flood. Could the pre-flood folks write? Sure! If they wanted or needed to. But consider that they were much larger (and smarter) than people today. They also lived for almost 1000 years, and in that time could amass (and remember) enormous knowledge, which they could pass down directly to many generations of children's children. With such lifespans, writing may not have been necessary.

It is interesting that the first writings appear in mesopotamia - just down the hill from where Noah's Ark landed. And this language (cuneiform) was fully mature at that time - no language evolution has ever been found.


---jerry6593 on 3/7/12


Warwick, I think ,because you're rotating upside down, that it affects the mind! (lol)
** absence of proof is no proof of absence** What is the proof that A & E could write other than "conjecture?"
You go from one extreme to the other-I do not believe in evolution!
We have clay tablets with cuneiform writing (not an alphabetic language) as the earliest form of writing. Water does not destroy hardened clay!
Moses was fluent in Egyptian and Hebrew.Egyptian had hieroglyphics,Hebrew had no written vowels. Neither an readable alphabetic language!
Cont..
---1st_cliff on 3/6/12


Cliff, absence of proof is not proof of absence.

As a statement of fact you write "There's NO written lanuage of 4,ooo BC." It is up to you to prove your contention. Lack of curent archaeological evidence is not proof of the negative.

What I have said in contradiction of your factless facts is that God created Adam and Eve fully functioning adults. Therefore on what logical grounds (as you have no contrary proof) do you say they could not write?

I believe you have swallowed the evolutionary story believing man developed from nonHuman creatures and had to learn to communicate.
6 days spoken means the same as 6 days written. And God has written 6 days. Why reject what God has written?
---Warwick on 3/6/12


Cliff, see Genesis 2:4 "This is the account (Hebrew 'toledoth')of the heavens and the earth when they were created." It includes no human name as it covers events before man existed.

Then see 5:1 "This is the written account of Adam's line." Then 6:9 "this is the account of Noah."

See also 10:1, 11:10, 11:27, 25:12, 25:19, 36:1,36:9. 37:2.

There is good reason to understand these are family records under the closing signature of the person named, the events recorded having occurred before the author died. Genesis 5:1 is therefore the account of the times of Adam, the obvious one to record it. All later compiled by Moses.
---Warwick on 3/6/12


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Warwick:

Genesis 1:6-8:
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

So, the heavens were created AFTER the first day.

How could the earth rotate relative to the sun on day one, when the sun was not created until day four, and there WAS NOT EVEN A PLACE FOR THE SUN TO SIT until day two?

Also, even if A+E wrote, they couldn't personally witness days 1-5.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/12


Warwick, I know you don't know and neither do I, as you say you take it on faith!
Faith needs a basis, give me your best guess as to how this came about!
Each day begins with "God said" (audibly?)
Who did God say it to? (Adam was not yet created) who heard and recorded this info since no written language is known to exist 4,000 BC?
Scripture is completely silent about the source!
---1st_cliff on 3/6/12


Warwick,1st there is no archaeological, historical evidence of pre-flood writing!
Any good museum will testify to that!
Now ,you contend that A & E could write, what proof,apart from "must have been"?
What language was Gen.ch.#1 written in originally? proof?
Who was first to write "yom and number?" This "rule-of-thumb concept proves nothing regardless of how many times it is used!
There's no reason to dismiss the larger creative days if God only used this as a "pattern!" Why the dogmatism of an "unknown"?
---1st_cliff on 3/6/12


StrongAxe Genesis 1:1 says God created the heavens and the earth."

1:9,10 says 'And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good."

It is clear God created the earth on day one. And that when the waters were gathered together in one place the dry land then appeared from under the waters.

It is rather nonsensical to say God created the globe twice!

The heavens were created on day one and God created light "and there was evening and there was morning-the first day."
---Warwick on 3/6/12


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No Lee you have it wrong God told the Israelites to work for 6 24hr days and rest the 7th 24hr day because He created in 6 24hr days, and rested the 7th 24hr day. "Day" with a number means 24hr days. At least it does in the real world. Time periods are never mentioned in Scripture. They are a figment of your overactive imagination.

Luke 13:14 "But the ruler of the synagogue, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, said to the people, There are six days in which work ought to be done. Come on those days and be healed, and not on the Sabbath day."

You would have us believe God said you are to work for 6 time periods and the Jews said you beaut let us make that 6 days! You are entertaining Lee.
---Warwick on 3/6/12


Lee, the full import of your error came to me at Bible study tonight.

God commands the Israelites work 6 days and rest the 7th telling them this was because He created in 6 days and rested the 7th. And they have worked 6 days and rested the 7th ever since, and still do so. But you say God did not create in 6 days but in 6 unknowable (to us) time periods. You say this Commandment was "given in terms that the people of Israel could understand." But you claim it wasn't the truth! You have God knowingly lying by evasion and this in the 10 Commandments where God Commands them not to lie.

What a lying, hypocritical God you present!
---Warwick on 3/6/12


Cliff, again you say there was no written language before 4,000BC. When challenged you had nothing to support your contention. But back you come! Again I ask you to provide proof.

God gave Adam and Eve spoken language and life-skills. Why would He not also give them written language? Too hard for Him?

You write "Jamming everything into 144hrs. serves no purpose and is unreaistic!" Jamming is a human time-bound concept not relevant to an almighty eternal God. Six day creation and 7th of rest has no purpose? Exodus 20:8-11 shows your error. God could have created entirely outside of time, but chose to do so in 6 earth-days as a template for human life.


---Warwick on 3/6/12


WeakHatchet: I can't seem to figure out whether you are smoking some funny weed or you haven't graduated grade school yet. Why fight it, the Bible is the truth - just as written.


---jerry6593 on 3/6/12


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//Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work,...."

Again, the command was given in terms that the people of Israel could understand.

//Why were they to work for 6 days and rest the seventh? "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day..."

For in six periods of time called days, the Lord made heaven, earth & the sea and all that is in them.

The god of the Bible needed only His word to create anything. He did not need 24 hours to create anything as Warwick would contend.


---lee1538 on 3/5/12


Warwick, micha9344:

Read the WHOLE chapter Genesis 1:

1: Heaven and earth created

3-5: Light created, divided from darkness, first day
6-8: heaven created, second day
9-10: earth created,
14-19: sun and moon and stars created, and placed in heaven, fourth day

If Genesis 1:1 is chronologically first, God created heaven and earth TWICE, which is absurd. So it must be merely a synopsis of the rest of the chapter. So:

1) The first day occurred before there was a heaven for the sun to be in
2) The first two days occurred before there was an earth to rotate
3) The first three days occurred before there was a sun.
---StrongAxe on 3/5/12


Warwick, Let's consider "reasons".
Why did God set up the "work six rest seventh" day law?
The pagans round about had no set "week"! The purpose, besides being a good model,man's need for a set rest day, demonstrated that these people were His people, a living testimony, re creating in miniature what He did on the Grand scale!
Jamming everything into 144hrs. serves no purpose and is unreaistic!
Yom with a number? we're talking an "oral" language and not necessarily Hebrew!
At Babel "all" languages were confused! Right?There's NO written lanuage of 4,ooo BC.
---1st_cliff on 3/5/12


Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Evening and morning, day and night, one day.
How much more plain can it be?
---micha9344 on 3/5/12


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StrongAxe where do you get the idea the earth was not there, and rotating from day one?

Scripture says the earth was created before God created light which brought about "the first day."
---Warwick on 3/5/12


jerry6593:

Genesis 1 says "evening and morning". It did NOT say "light and dark", which, again, did not exist as such during the first several days.

You said: Even grade school children understand that day and night are caused by earth rotations relative to a light source.

They might, but most people (including Moses) didn't until at best a couple of thousand years ago. Also, the key word hre is are. They are NOW, but not during the first 2 days, when there WAS no earth to rotate, and there WAS no light source to rotate with respect to.

Wouldn't separation of earth from heavens, or gathering all the waters into one place also be catastrophic?
---StrongAxe on 3/5/12


Cliff, God clearly tells us the time period in which He chose to create and why. Many people just do not want to know. An inconvenient truth.

Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days (*) you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work,...." Why were they to work for 6 days and rest the seventh? "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

* see Luke 13:14
---Warwick on 3/5/12


//Please explain just how the first two creation days can be said to be measured in earth rotations...
---StrongAxe on 3/4/12 //

The ONLY extant record of the Creation is the Bible. It says that the first three days were measured as evenings and mornings - periods of light and dark. Even grade school children understand that day and night are caused by earth rotations relative to a light source. The fact that the light source was different on the first three days (God vs. the sun) in no way affects the earth rotation rate. A massive change in rotation rate would be as catastrophic to the planet as long periods of light or darkness would be to day 3 vegetation. And yes, the earth was present on day 1.


---jerry6593 on 3/5/12


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Man misjudges the recorded and proven truth as a violation.
---Eloy on 3/4/12


1st Cliff, "O Yhwh, for a thousand years in your sight that yesterday when it is past, and a watch in the night. Of the tree of knowledge of good and bad see that you eat not: for even the same day you eat, of it you will, dying you will die. And the woman saw, that it a good tree to eat of and a desire to the eyes and a desirous tree for to make one wise, and took of the fruit of it and ate, then brought to her husband also nearby her, and he ate. So all the days of Adam which he lived, were nine hundred and thirty years, and then he died. Now upon this let not be hidden from you, beloved, that one day of Lord that a thousand years, and a thousand years that day one."
Pm.90.1,4, Gn.2:17+ 3:6+ 5:5, II Pt.3:8.
---Eloy on 3/4/12


With God ALL things are possable!He could have made it all in 15 minutes, doesn't mean He did!
Why was "time" taken and listed? Six periods of "time"?
Did God create by Magic? NO!
Every detail was/is meticulously "designed" from a Gnat to an elephant to an albatross to a turtle!
No one in there right mind could say they were thrown together Zap,bam snap done!
1st there was no hurry!
Ahh but if you see "yom"connected to a number (from hundreds of years before language was in written form)it is automatically a 24hr.day This is total "undisputed" truth? NOT!
---1st_cliff on 3/4/12


jerry6593:

Please explain just how the first two creation days can be said to be measured in earth rotations, since there was not yet an earth to rotate, nor a sun relative to which such rotations could be measured?
---StrongAxe on 3/4/12


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FACT! We have the Bible as the singular extant (reliable) record of Creation, and it definitively states - 6 days (earth rotations) of approximately 24 hours each. Any other interpretation violates the laws of physics, life and grammar.

Relatedly, the age of the earth is a sharply contested number. Is it 6000 years or 4.5 Billion years as some believe. Have you considered the evidences and assumptions for each view?


---jerry6593 on 3/4/12


To unregenerate man it is folly, just like the gospel. But for the faithful is is God's Truth. As Jesus said "Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Who is man to tell God what He can or cannot do? And who is man to reject what God has said? "Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them,"
---Warwick on 3/3/12


"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Peter 3:8

You guys are really confused and confusing whenever you quote this verse to represent the creation of the world by God.

What Peter simply means and imply is that God can NEVER be constrained by time and that's because He's ETERNAL. After all it's God who created times, space and matter when Genesis 1:1 declared, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
---christan on 3/3/12


1,000 years to man on earth is equal to 1 day to God in heaven, and is clearly defined and referenced to Adam's death. Ref: Genesis 2:17+ 3:6+ 5:5, Psalm 90:4, II Peter 3:8.
---Eloy on 3/3/12


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Creating the universe? Fantasy! That's not what the Bible communicates:

1. "The heaven & the earth" (G1:1) in no way implies the Universe. A careful read of G1 & 2 shows the creation of our solar system (one of many in our galaxy: The Milky Way, which is one of many in the Universe).

2. "...be not ignorant...one day is with the Lord as a thousand [M] years, & [M] years as one day." (2 Pt.3:8) I believe if that was His plan, God could've created a "universe" & everything in it in 144 hours (6 days). Certainly, He didn't have a problem doing that with our singularly unique solar system.

Scripture, nature & science shows God loves diverse plurality.
---Leon on 3/3/12


"With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."Matthew 19:26

Not only does this declaration by Jesus pertains to only salvation but to everything that your eyes, ears and heart can see and yet no believe that God "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

Now you know why "unbelief" is your "visa" to the Lake of Fire? This "visa" is eternal and can never be revoked.
---christan on 3/3/12


Maybe with the help of a dozen or so undocumented workers...
---atheist on 3/3/12


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