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Baptism At Pentecost

Does 1 Cor 12:13 Describe the Spirit Baptism at Pentecost?

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 ---micha8489 on 3/8/12
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strongax, Scripture is not conjecture, and scripture directs souls to be baptized for salvation. You can speculate to try to support things which are not scriptural all you desire, but speculation isn't truth and speculation doesn't fly.
---Eloy on 3/28/12


Eloy:

You can conjecture all you want. However, the scripture does not in any way say that he WAS baptised - so you cannot base any theological beliefs on the assumption that he was. Basing theology on things the Bible doesn't talk about at all is very dangerous, and is how many heresies and cults get started.
---StrongAxe on 3/28/12


Eloy, your believe is wrong. Repentance comes before baptism.

"Then Peter said, 'Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" ( Acts 2:38).

While in your unforgiveness towards your wife there can be no repentance.
"For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, "but the sorrow of the world produces death."
---Mark_V. on 3/28/12


Strongax, I believe that the thief was probably baptized long before his back-sliding, and the only thing preventing his restoration was his repentance, which he had whole-heartedly done up to Jesus while dying on the cross. And therefore since he repented asking the Lord Jesus not to forget him, he was legally permitted to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
---Eloy on 3/27/12


the Bible definitely teaches water baptism was a part of Israel's religion (Heb. 6:1,2, 9:10). For the remission of sins.

In this age there is ONE baptism, not two: "One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM" Eph. 4:5. This baptism places the Christian into the Church, the BoC, by the Holy Spirit: "For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" I Cor. 12:13. This baptism takes place once at the time of salvation.
Paul was not sent to baptize with water: "For Christ sent me NOT TO BAPTIZE but to preach the gospel..." I Cor. 1:17 Only a change in God's purpose would necessitate a statement like this.
---michael_e on 3/27/12




Eloy:

The thief was someone who committed a serious offense against the Ten Commandments, which was also a capital offense against Rome. One of John's baptized converts would be unlikely to to do.

Sure, it's an assumption to assume he was not baptized, but it is a reasonable one - just as it is reasonable to assume he was probably a Jew.

It would be much more unreasonable to assume he WAS baptized, or was a high priest, or Chinese, or even a Martian - even though the Bible doesn't explicitly say he wasn't any of those.
---StrongAxe on 3/27/12


Strongax, It is wrong to assume that the thief was not water baptized. Scripture does not say anywhere that the thief was not baptized prior to him being crucified on the cross, on the contrary the thief could very well have been baptized many years before he found himself being hung up on a cross. Also, if Christ Almighty wanted to, he could easily have stopped the foolish works of the sinners, commanded that the thief be released to be water baptized again, and then hung back up again if he so wanted to. But this crucifizion time was for Christ to fulfill his mission in the fsce of the world.
---Eloy on 3/27/12


Strongax, Bear with me brother, for I know that my words are a sharper than a double-edged sword, but it is only to cut asunder all falsehood and denigration of the Word. Yes, Jesus explains his commandments very clearly: all whom disobey his commandments are condemned. He even went before us in person, in order to show us the way of righteousness, and he himself got baptized to fulfill ALL righteousness, not some righteousness, nor to pick and to choose which righteousness to fulfill, but we must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God: if one refuses to be baptized as commanded by Jesus Almighty, then that one has refused to follow God, and there is no salvation for disobedience.
---Eloy on 3/26/12


//I suppose the fact that Jesus's immediate disciples baptized, and Jesus Himself commanded it is meaningless to you?//
Not meaningless but not applicable either

Rom 15:8Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
1 Cor. 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
---michael_e on 3/26/12


Eloy:

Jesus said those wbo believe and are baptized are saved. He also said those who don't believe are condemned. However, he didn't say what happens to those who believe but are not baptized.

We DO have one example of such a person - the repentant thief on the cross. Jesus told him "today you will be with me in paradise" - not "I wish I could help you, but you're not baptized, so go to hell!"
---StrongAxe on 3/26/12




aka, One of the ways that we can discern a NonChristian is they diminish the Commandments of Jesus. Jesus Commands people to be baptized for the kingdom, and then unsaved sinners reply, baptism is not necessary for salvation. Water baptism IS necessary for salvation, Scripture says so, as a matter of fact every commandment that God commands us to do is necessary for salvation, for NO disobedience will enter into the kingdom of God.
---Eloy on 3/26/12


\\i simply state that it is not necessary for salvation nor is it a sign of anything.\\

I suppose the fact that Jesus's immediate disciples baptized, and Jesus Himself commanded it is meaningless to you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/26/12


When a person is saved by the Lord, he is commanded to be water baptized. This command is from Christ found in (Matt. 28:19) Baptism is not requirement in order to be save, but is commanded by Christ when you are already saved.
Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ identifies the new believer through the waters of Baptism, with His death, burial and resurrection. (Rom. 6:3,4:) "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life"
---Mark_V. on 3/26/12


i am saying that no one is forbidden from any kind of baptism. i am not arguing against it. it is fine with me. i simply state that it is not necessary for salvation nor is it a sign of anything. just like circumcision. i was circumcised by a long line of judaizers. if the Lord did not bring me further, it would amount to necessary surgery. now, my heart is circumcised. that makes the difference. after peter was filled with the spirit, paul and him got in each others grill about dietary law. just because we are filled with the spirit does not mean that we stop engaging in fruitless activity. are all in your church circumcised?
---aka on 3/25/12


No, I Cor.12:13 is speaking about the diverse members being water baptized into Christ's one body. Whereas, Acts 2 is speaking about the Holy Spirit descending upon the people, and were subsequently inSpirited to speak in other tongues. In Scripture you will find that some people receive the Spirit baptism before they are water baptized, and some people receive the Spirit baptism after they are water baptized. Please Read- Acts 10:44-48.
---Eloy on 3/25/12


Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Here we have some people who had already been baptized by the holy ghost after receiving the truth, who then were baptized in water in the name of the lord.
Notice that they had already received the baptism of the holy ghost BEFORE they were baptized in water
---francis on 3/25/12


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it says in black and white in the name of...not in water. i know you can read, so why do you argue in gray? again, you are adding water to baptism.
---aka on 3/24/12

Let me see if i understand you correctly:

You are saying that they were baptized " in the name of the Jesus Christ." But the baptism was not done in water.

is that what you are saying?
---francis on 3/25/12


Acts 8:36 And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water, what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.

this man belived in Jesus christ, yet he was baptized with water

did the apostles each have their own means on baptism Some in water, some in the naem on Jesus without water?
---francis on 3/25/12


francis, I agree that ( Acts 2:38,39) is talking about water baptism because of the remission of sin, and able now to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit. Baptism does not produce forgiveness and cleansing from sin, see (1 Peter 3:20,21) "Be Baptized" the Grk lit. means "be dipped or immersed" in water. Peter was obeying Christ command from (Matt. 28:19) and urging the people who repented and turned to the Lord for salvation to identify, through the waters of baptism, with His death, burial, and resurrection (19:5: Rom. 6:3,4: 1 Cor. 12:13: Gal. 3:27: Matt. 3:2). This is the first time Peter publicly enjoined people to obey that ceremony, prior to this many Jews had experienced the baptism of John the Baptist.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/12


it says in black and white in the name of...not in water. i know you can read, so why do you argue in gray? again, you are adding water to baptism.

there is only one reason to carry on traditions that Jesus fulfilled: you practice Judaism or you are a Judaizer.

if i am in need, i do not only allow the water baptized to help just as i will help one who is not water baptized. against brotherly love, there is no law. the same goes for sabbath, and so on...
---aka on 3/24/12


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---aka on 3/24/12
Not an assumption, it is the truth

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The disciples cannot baptize with the holy ghost
they can only baptize with water as God is commanding them

God never commands them to baptize anyone with the holy ghost

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

They cannot baptize themselves with the holy Ghost, nor can peter do that for them, they can only allow themselves to be baptized with water in the name of Jesus,
---francis on 3/24/12


Repent, and be baptized ( IN WATER) -francis

where is that? baptized means immersion. adding water is the common assumption, but that does not make it correct.

i presented scripture of what john the baptist said, you ignore it and insert man's take.

John said, Mar_1:8 I[john the baptist] indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you IN the name of Jesus Christ...

again, other than your insertion and assumption, where is water in Acts 2. if you want to reason with Godliness, I can't, i can only read what it says and believe.
---aka on 3/24/12


Mark, YOU SAID
IT IS A COMMAND from Christ for all believers. All genuine believers are obedient to Christ. Water baptism saves no one. It is obedience to what Christ said, we must do. If we cannot for some reason then WE DON"T HAVE TO OBEY.
You need to read what you write, what you write is a contradiction
---michael_e on 3/24/12


Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

If the baptism was the baptism of the Holy Ghost they would not need to be baptized to receive that holy ghost baptism. The receiving of the holy ghost itself would be the baptism

Peter did not say:
Repent, and be baptized ( WITH THE HOLY GHOST)every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

Pater said

Repent, and be baptized ( IN WATER)every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
---francis on 3/24/12


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where is there any mention of water in Acts 2? i do see mention of the spirit.

Mar_1:8 I [john the baptist] indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
---aka on 3/24/12


1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This text points out that we are made partakers of the same body, the church, by the same holy spirit. I would say that it speaks of the unity of the church by the same holy spirit. The other parts of this chapter speaks about gifts given by the same holy spirit.

Acts 2:38 Repent, and be baptized.. AND ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:

This was water baptism at pentecost
---francis on 3/24/12


Aka, very good points you gave francis. It is the living water that spiritually cleanses the New Believer under the New Covenant. Water baptism is symbolic and is only good to identify the new believer he is under the New Covenant. It is commanded by Jesus to all who are able to be baptize. It is an act of obedience. "The wind blows where it wants" is that act of God when He brings someone to life from the spiritual death he was in. The permenant indwelling of the Spirit and filling of the Spirit is what happened at Pentacost to equip the new believers with the gifts for ministry and to help him through his Christian life.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/12


Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord

John 4:10 Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, 'Give me a drink,' you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water."

again, wash away your sins calling on
the name of the Lord...the Living Water.

not wash away your sins calling on the water from the jordan river.
---aka on 3/23/12


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Worth repeating.
//Jesus's ministry was only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So any teaching he did about baptism was only directed towards Israelites. No Gentiles were baptized at Pentecost either.
---Pat.pat on 3/21/12//
Rom. 15:8Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
---michael_e on 3/23/12


Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord
---francis on 3/23/12


Francis, I was talking in context of the day of Pentecost. And the Scripture that you used does not say water baptism. It could mean baptism in lemonade. However, the Bible parallels water baptism and spiritual baptism. Since God is spirit, I will lean towards spiritual cleaning of the Living Water and you can stick with earthly water which is not spirit.
---aka on 3/23/12


Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

not in water...in the name of Jesus Christ.
---aka on 3/22/12
yes it was in water

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
---francis on 3/23/12


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Peter was just filled with the Spirit (no water baptism...the wind blows where it wants)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

not in water...in the name of Jesus Christ.

caveat: not in the magical powers of the phrase "in the name of Jesus Christ." but, submersion in the (truth, integrity, namesake, reputation) of Jesus the Christ.
---aka on 3/22/12


Mark, YOU SAID
IT IS A COMMAND from Christ for all believers. All genuine believers are obedient to Christ. Water baptism saves no one. It is obedience to what Christ said, we must do. If we cannot for some reason then WE DON"T HAVE TO OBEY.
You need to read what you write, what you write here is a contradiction
---michael_e on 3/22/12


Michael e, you like to drag things out but I will dance with you. You said,

So it's a symbolic command, that if we have a reason, we don't have to follow"

The command of Jesus is not symbolic, it is a literal command. Some might not be able to get baptized for different reasons, like been in the hospital, or if they are dying. The theif on the cross did not get baptized, he couldn't.
Water baptism is symbolic, and it identifies all new believers under the covenant of grace or as some say, the New Covenant. It symbolizes dying, going in the water, and life, coming out of the water. Since works does not save a person, and this is the work of man, it does not save anyone. Its the fruit of obedience of the new believer.
---Mark_V. on 3/22/12


Jesus's ministry was only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So any teaching he did about baptism was only directed towards Israelites. No Gentiles were baptized at Pentecost either.
---Pat.pat on 3/21/12


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//Water baptism saves no one. It is obedience to what Christ said, we must do. If we cannot for some reason then we don't have to obey.//

that is serious double-talk and/or the (il)logical end to calvanistic-type predestination.
---aka on 3/22/12


Mark, you said
//It is a command from Christ for all believers. It is obedience to what Christ said, we must do. If we cannot for some reason then we don't have to obey.No one can be saved by water at any time. It is symbolic.//
So it's a symbolic command, that if we have a reason, we don't have to follow?
---michael_e on 3/21/12


Matthew 5:24 "Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift."
Like John and Jesus, the earthly and the heavenly, as Love God and Love neighbour the duality of man- physical and spiritual are represented
and must be put in order, both.

"Born of water and of the Spirit", of both. Both are necessary.
One is of man (earthy, by man's means). The other of God, the Spiritual.

Also, it is not a rite of passage but a life of dedication to our fellow man and to God.
---Nana on 3/21/12


Michael e, you said,

"francis said, you must be water baptized."

I agree. Everyone born of the Spirit must be baptize. It is a command from Christ for all believers. All genuine believers are obedient to Christ. Water baptism saves no one. It is obedience to what Christ said, we must do. If we cannot for some reason then we don't have to obey.
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" They are to be taught, "teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you,"
---Mark_V. on 3/21/12


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Mark_V.* Baptism of water, is commanded by Jesus to all believers under the New Covenant.

If Jesus said it, then we are saved!

Mark_V.* Water baptism identified them as the "called out" who symbolicly die going in the water, and alive again coming out of the water.

Like Jesus said " Must be born again with 'water and Spirit' to enter the kiingdom of Heaven.(Jhn 3:5)


Mark_V.* No one can be saved by water at any time. It is symbolic.

Really:

" eight souls were saved by water . The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us"( 1 Peter 3:20-21)
---Ruben on 3/21/12


1 Cor.1:17 For Christ sent me NOT TO BAPTIZE, but to preach the gospel: ---michael_e on 3/21/12

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Billy Graham and several other preachers are like that. They are not the ones who always do the baptizing. They preach and other of their associates do the actualy physical baptizing.
Same with paul. He would preach, and other of his assaciates would baptize, and he also according to the scriptures did baptize.

It is 100% clear that paul baptized, he preached more than he baptized, but he did baptize both jews and gentiles according to the scriptures
---francis on 3/21/12


Mark, you and francis both can't be right
You said
francis, you got it right this time concerning baptism.
francis said, you must be water baptized.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved,
You said it's symbolic.
//Water baptism identified them) as the "called out" who symbolicly die going in the water, and alive again coming out of the water//
Check your scripture if you have any, either it's essential to salvation or it's not.
---michael_e on 3/21/12


Michael has a point. Since baptism is not necessary to achieve salvation, it isn't necessary at all.
---Pat.pat on 3/20/12
How do we get around this passage?
Mark 16:16 He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved,


Acts 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house, and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue: So we know for 100% sure that Paul was baptizing jews

Some of the other names given which paul baptized are names of gentiles. There is no biblical evidence that He stopped baptizing jews.

What we do know is that he went to the gentiles and did baptize them:
---francis on 3/21/12


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francis, you got it right this time concerning baptism. The Spirit's baptism is not the same as water baptism. The Spirit's Baptism is something we don't see, and have no involvement in. Water baptism begin in the Old Testament and continued into the New Testament. Baptism of water, is commanded by Jesus to all believers under the New Covenant. Water baptism identified them as the "called out" who symbolicly die going in the water, and alive again coming out of the water. No one can be saved by water at any time. It is symbolic.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/12


1 Cor 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius, 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.16 I baptized also the household of Stephanas: (Jews as far as can be traced)
1 Cor.1:17 For Christ sent me NOT TO BAPTIZE, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Either Paul was doing something he wasn't supposed to do or he baptized before it was revealed to him that water baptism isn't part of the gospel of the grace of God
---michael_e on 3/21/12


As you can see Paul was also baptizing people. Jews or Gentiles?
1 Cor.1:17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
I wonder if Paul baptized these Jews before it was revealed to Him, water baptism isn't required under the gospel of the grace of God revealed to him?
---michael_e on 3/20/12

are you saying that he started to baptize jews, then it was revealed to him that he should not baptize jews?

SHOW ME THAT IN THE BIBLE
---francis on 3/20/12


Michael has a point. Since baptism is not necessary to achieve salvation, it isn't necessary at all.
---Pat.pat on 3/20/12


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As you can see Paul was also baptizing people. Jews or Gentiles?
1 Cor.1:17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
I wonder if Paul baptized these Jews before it was revealed to Him, water baptism isn't required under the gospel of the grace of God revealed to him?
---michael_e on 3/20/12


At one time the gospel of a kingdom and remission of sins was intimately tied to water baptism. until Paul.
---michael_e on 3/20/12

PURE GARBAGE

1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius,

1 Corinthians 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

As you can see Paul was also baptizing people.

Your entire theology about paul, baptism, and the BoC is wrong
---francis on 3/20/12


No one preaching the baptism gospel understood the preaching of the cross. Wherever the baptism gospel is presented in scripture it is always presented for remission (forgiveness) of sins.

But Paul taught the cross of Christ for forgiveness of sins. Water baptism had been supplanted by something greater!

At one time the gospel of a kingdom and remission of sins was intimately tied to water baptism. until Paul.

No wonder that there are so many confusions about water baptism when people fail to recognize the special revelation given to Paul from the Lord.

It was first known by Paul that water baptism was not required and was separate from the true forgiveness of sins which is through Christs blood (Eph 1:7).
---michael_e on 3/20/12


One baptism means that all are baptized unto christ. Some people thought that based on who baptized them, that is who they belonged to:

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius,
1 Corinthians 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1 Corinthians 1:16 I baptized also the household of Stephanas:

So there is water baptism which paul did, as paul could not baptize with the holy Ghost, and there is also holy ghost baptism which only Jesus does.
---francis on 3/19/12


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Paul says there is one baptism (Eph 4:5). Paul clearly makes it a baptism by the Spirit, not water, in 1 Cor 12:13 and Gal 3:27. Yet it's a common mistake to make Pauls baptism by the Spirit and the baptism with the Holy Ghost at Pentecost the same.

Just because we read the same word (in Greek or English) it doesn't mean the context is the same. These two baptisms are separated because of a difference in who is baptizing, who is being baptized, and why they are being baptized.
---michael_e on 3/18/12


In Acts it says 3000 people got baptized on the day of Pentecost. I don't know how they did that. God must have worked a baptism miracle.
---Pat.pat on 3/16/12


Mark
The Jewish council, where Paul "communicated unto them(the 12 and leaders) that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles," convened when? the same day as the crucifixion?
---michael_e on 3/15/12


Michael e, the passage does not say it was years after Jesus death. There is no indication of time. As the church expanded into the Roman world unexpectly God's Spirit fell on non-Jews (Acts 10:44,45). Slowly, narrowness and prejudiice broke down. The Jewish council convened to settle the Jew-Gentile issue. The wall came down.
---Mark_V. on 3/15/12


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//That's not what (Acts 14:27//
Acts14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.
1 Peter 2:9-10: no mention of non-jews here.
Ex 19:6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
This is what Peter, the apostle to Israel was referring to.
---michael_e on 3/15/12


James_l
//Christ was buried (placed into) a tomb, and we are buried with Him in baptism.//
A baptism no man can perform
Romans 6:3 that was the work of the Holy Spirit. Ref. I Cor 12:13
Remember the Gospel, that Christ died for our sins, that He was buried, and that He arose again from the dead. That's the Gospel, and we go through that spiritually, and we experience it by faith, when He died, we died. As He was buried, we were buried. And as He arose from the grave, we arose in newness of life.
Rom.6:4 Do denominations teach when they baptize you with water, they are baptizing you into death.
Christ was water baptized but, didn't die in water.
---michael_e on 3/15/12


Michael e, you said,
"Years after Christ died God opened a door to gentiles. Acts 14:27."
That's not what (Acts 14:27) say. (Acts 10:45,46), then (v.47) tells us "Then Peter answered, Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? To be more precise, Paul and Peter both taught that believing Jews and non-Jews, together, are "the people of God," "the elect of God," "the Israel of God" (1 Peter 2:9-10: Colossians 3:11,12: Galatians 6:16). The "two" are "One" and are "of the same body" (Eph. 2:14-16). Through the cross, the Messiah Himself has performed this wedding ceremony.
---Mark_V. on 3/15/12


michael e,

I've asked before and never received a straight answer, so mayber I'll try to word it a little different

Christ was buried (placed into) a tomb, and we are buried with Him in baptism.

Then was raised out of that tomb. If we are buried with Him, aren't we raised with Him also?

If we are "buried" into the Body of Christ, then what are we raised out of?

buried and raised means we are placed into something, and then raised out of that same something

So is your view that we are buried into the Body of Christ, then raised out of the Body of Christ?

Or is it your view that we are buried into one thing, but then raised out of something different?
---James_L on 3/14/12


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Does God desire that the Christian should be both spiritual and religious? Does God desire that the Christian should receive from the hands of another Christian a baptism by water to witness to the world that he is seated in the heavenlies in Christ? Every Christian should know
that no work of righteousness and no religious ceremony is required for the sinners salvation. If one Christian baptizes with water another Christian, the water ceremony is the work done by one man and received by another man. According to Eph. 2:8 to 10, Titus 3:5-8, Rom. 4:3-5, man can't help save himself by anything that he can do for himself. No religious work that any other person can do for him will help to save him.
---michael_e on 3/14/12


Eph 4:5: ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM
All these baptisms refer to one Divine baptism where a believer is baptized into the death of Christ, into the resurrected Christ, into the BoC.
---michael_e on 3/14/12

I am not sure what you are trying to say

are you trying to say that no one was water baptized when paul was a minister to the gentiles?

Are you aware that PETER was the first to go to the gentiles?
---francis on 3/14/12


Years after Christ died God opened a door to gentiles. Acts 14:27.
Paul the apostle to the Gentiles, said, Christ sent me not to baptize. Paul never says water baptism is a witness to the world that a member of Christs Body had been baptized into the death of Christ, buried and raised with Him. Rom. 6:3,4,if there is any water there, water baptism made saints out of sinners.
Col 2:11. Is Gods explanation of the baptism of Col 2:12, without hands?
Gal 3:27.For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5: ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM
All these baptisms refer to one Divine baptism where a believer is baptized into the death of Christ, into the resurrected Christ, into the BoC.
---michael_e on 3/14/12


the teaching of some of the immersionists, that a member of the Body of Christ should be buried in water to show that he is dead and buried with Christ, is as well unscriptural.
---michael_e on 3/14/12

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith

USE THE BIBLE
---francis on 3/14/12


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(a little water on the head to take the place of circumcision) is Scriptural, ---michael_e on 3/14/12

Where on earth have you seen ONE SINGLE scripture that says baptism / sprinkling takes the place of circumcision?

One would have to be very open minded to even jump to that conclusion.
---francis on 3/14/12


In the book of acts, the people at cornelous house recieved the holy spirit BEFORE they were baptized.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost


IN other passages the spirit was poured out during the actual water baptism Acts 19:5 , and in another passage it came days after water baptism Acts 8:15.
---francis on 3/14/12


Just a little common sense and a few moments study will convince any man with an open mind that, if the teaching of some (a little water on the head to take the place of circumcision) is Scriptural, then the teaching of some of the immersionists, that a member of the Body of Christ should be buried in water to show that he is dead and buried with Christ, is as well unscriptural.
What DOES Eph 4:5 and 1 Cor.12:13 written to the BoC mean?
---michael_e on 3/14/12


Francis,

Michael e is a hyper-dispensationalist. So any time he sees God dealing with someone in a seemingly different way from other times, he assumes it must be a different dispensation with a different gospel. I think an honest hyper-dispensationalist should see about 12-15 different dispensations in the book of Acts alone.

Matthew 28:19 says nothing about water baptism. what Jesus commisioned was not a ceremony of dipping with a verbal pronouncement, but "immerse" people "into" the Name

Acts 2:41 doesn't say anyone was "saved". Verse 5 refers to them in such a way that identifies them as "saved" before Peter ever preached.
---James_L on 3/13/12


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michael_e on 3/11/12
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.

Unless in your view the church is not the Boc, you must accept that many entered the church through baptism before paul was converted
---francis on 3/13/12


Exodus says the nation of Israel was to be a kingdom of priests (Ex 19:3-6) and priests had to be washed. Water baptism is a Hebrew rite to identify Israel with that kingdom of priests. When the Lord came to set up the kingdom he came, with John the Baptist, later the 12, baptizing with water.

Water baptism identified Israel with her King and kingdom, our baptism today identifies us with the BoC.

Our baptism today is spiritual, an act of the Holy Spirit placing us into and identifying us with and in the BoC.

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,...

This tells us it's the Holy Spirit, not man, doing the baptizing. We are baptized into the one body, the body of Christ.
---michael_e on 3/11/12


Micha, the events at Pentecost and in (1 Cor. 12:13) are not the same event. In (Acts 2) the ministry of the Holy Spirit permanently indwelling the believer begin at Pentecost. At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came on this day as the firstfruits of the believer's inheritance ( 2 Cor. 5:5: Eph. 1:11,14). Those gathered into the church then were also the fistfruits of the full harvest of all believers to come. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit.
In (1 Cor. 12:13) After talking about the gifts, Paul mentions the baptism of the Holy Spirit into One body. A whole different event which happens when a person is born of God. He is placed "spiritually" into One Body in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/12


No 1 corithians does not describe the baptism at pentecost, but how the same spirit is what unites the church as one.
We are all partakers of the very same spirit and none more important that the other
---francis on 3/9/12


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No,1 Corinthians 12:13 doesn't describe the Gift of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost which is found in Acts 2:38 on the day of Pentecost. Corinthians describes how the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are to be used in a meeting or church.
---Darlene_1 on 3/9/12


ALL part of Acts v 38. Was delivered to the Jewish people First by Apostle Peter on the day of Pentecost. The rest of the Apostles taught The Very Same.
God gave Apostle Peter This Salvation Message. God didn't give the other Apostles something else diff to preach. Again, they ALL taught the same.
---Lawrence on 3/9/12


yes every christian gets baptized (covered) by the Spirit of God. The same Spirit at Pentecost or today. The Spirit works in different ways and in different forms but same Spirit for the glorification of God and the body of believers.
---Scott1 on 3/8/12


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