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Are Some People Sinless

Some people here claim they are without sin, or that they are sinless right now walking the earth. Is that possible? Is anyone walking around already completely Holy? Pure as God?

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 ---Mark_V. on 3/8/12
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"'For with God nothing will be impossible.'" (Luke 1:37) Jesus in us (Galatians 4:19) shares with us how He is > 2 Corinthians 3:17-18. You ask, "Pure as God?" > "And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." (1 John 3:3)

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," Paul clearly gives us in Philippians 2:14-15. So, we succeed like this, "in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation", by learning how to love > relating "without complaining and disputing" (c:
---willie_c: on 3/11/12


It's sad to see how some will hold onto traditional beliefs trusting in man instead of God, even when Bible commentaries failings/errors are exposed.

God says that the anointing we have received of him teaches us all things so we have NO NEED that any MAN teach us, 1John2:27.
Trust in God, not commentaries.

Scripture confirms scripture and we've seen consistently here in this blog God's message that Christ set us free from sin. Christians are righteous and NOT sinners.

This debate is not a competition. God loves us, and His word says we are no longer sinners when we're in Christ. Why reject what God says?
---Haz27 on 3/11/12


" the BLOOD of Christ reconciles mankind to GOD ...HIS blood does NOTHING for sin"

To reconcile means to remove that which offends. What offended God? Sin. What we were in Adam. That is why Jesus didn't bear sin. He became sin.
---blogger8980 on 3/11/12


duane, A-men. Not only is it offensive to call a righteous person a sinner, it is also blasphemy. Consider a person whom has just finished washing in the shower or in the bath, after they step out of the shower or bath, how foolish is it to say, "You are still dirty, and will be dirty until you die, for only Jesus is clean." Foolish people, you whom do despite to the Spirit of grace, and to the holy blood of the covenant. Has Christ come in vain? has Christ no works in you, and abandoned you to be an orphan? has he not answered any of your prayings? has Christ not redeemed you? Indeed Jesus has changed you, and you know that he has changed you: so give him the glory due his name, and let everything that has breath, Praise the Lord!
---Eloy on 3/11/12


" Also Rom 3:25 says: "for the remission of sins that are PAST". Since it's ONLY PAST sins, BEFORE coming to Christ, that are forgiven, where does one stand claiming they still sin? ---Haz27 on 3/11/12"

Woohoo! Amen! Hallelujah! The faithful witness just stood up on the witness stand of my heart and shouted, "Truth!" Thank you Haz. God is so good!
---blogger8980 on 3/11/12




Your thoughts deceive you to make you bleieve that you are sinless.
---Steveng on 3/11/12


To say Im stll a sinner after being born again of the Spirit would be offensive to my Spirit.
Being freed from sin is the heart of the Gospel. There is no Gospel(good news) if Jesus did not set us free from sin.
Alot of people are deceived and in bondage still trying day and night, year after year to have there sins forgiven, not knowing they ARE already forgiven and set free.
Just believe in HIM.
---duane on 3/11/12


TheSeq //For no one is without sin.

I concur with your position that the Christian is basically a sinner saved by grace, that our salvation does not depend upon us.

However there are some on this forum that believe Christians are not sinners, that believers are sinfree.

This view is not supported by the Christian community in former years or even today.

Basically it makes the Christian who believes that into just another hypocrite -one that says one thing but does just the opposite.
---lee1538 on 3/11/12


duane, A-men.
"Come, hear, all you all that respect God, and I will declare what he has done for my soul. I cried to Yhwh with my voice, and he heard me. He said to me: Your sins are forgiven. Note, God my Yeshuah, I will trust and not fear: for Yh Yhwh, my strength and song, he also is become my salvation. For great your mercy toward me: and you have delivered my soul from the lowest hell. He drew me with gentle cords of a man, with bands of love: and he was to me as one who takes off the yoke on my neck, and he stooped and fed me. And the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Ps.66:16+ 3:4 Lk.7:48+ Is.12:2+ Ps.86:13+ Ho.11:4+ Gal.2:20.
---Eloy on 3/11/12


Lee I will never presume to be more then I am.
I cannot tell you, you cannot sin. All I can say is your sins are forgiven!
To me this is not saying you will not sin again! For no one is without sin.
If anyone of us can go a day without sinning, then let him do so.
Proving it!

What I am saying is I personally dont care how many times you Sin.
Someone once told me a man of God must try to standup every time you fall.
I told him, No! A man of God must learn when he is on the floor he is standing.

My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/11/12




Jesus did not take away sin? We are not freed from sin?
We are not dead to sin?
This is good news?....Some here have not heard the good news. Have not heard there is power in the Blood.
There is power in the Blood.
---duane on 3/11/12


lee1538, Mark_V: In case you missed this question, I'll ask again. It helps me to understand your "habitual sin" doctrine.

If someone becomes a Christian for the remaining 30 years of their life, where do they stand in these 2 scenarios?

1:They OCCASSIONALLY lie, angry at others, lustfully look at another, etc, throughout their life as a Christian.

2:They are DAILY living in adultery or smoking/drinking, etc throughout their life as a Christian.

Are both these types of Christians in "habitual" sin?

Also Rom 3:25 says: "for the remission of sins that are PAST".
Since it's ONLY PAST sins, BEFORE coming to Christ, that are forgiven, where does one stand claiming they still sin?
---Haz27 on 3/11/12


Haz, you asked me a question that you already know the answer to. Sin is sin no matter how you paint it. your own pride is sin. But you are a believer who is suppose to have the Truth as (1 John 1:8) says. You insist you don't. Remember the rich man, he could not give all he had when Jesus told him. What was lacking in the rich man? Remember he said he kept the law? His refusal to obey Jesus and sell everything revealed two things, he was not blameless as far as the law was concerned, because he was guilty of loving himself and his possessions more than his neighbor, and most of all he lacked faith, which involves a willingness to surrender all at Christ bidding. That was his sin, and the reason why it is hard for a rich man to go to heaven.
---Mark_V. on 3/11/12


Rhonda: Can you explain to me what "sin" you think 1John1:8 speaks of. Can you give a biblical definition of the "sin" spoken of here?

Also you rightly claim that Jesus's sacrifice dealt with PAST sin, but then you equated his sacrifice to be no better than the yearly sacrifices with your claim that Christians are STILL in sin in spite of his sacrifice.
How can you make such a offensive claim. Once purged with Christ's ONE offering there is NO MORE CONSCIENCE of sin.

His seed is in Christians and hence they CANNOT sin 1John3:9
---Haz27 on 3/10/12


TheSeq - I think I will stick with the interpretation as given by the theologians that one is not free from sin, merely free from the bondage or slavery to sin. (sin is more than just a transgression of some law)

I concur with Barnes Notes on 1 John 3:9, would seem to imply two things:

(1.) that the seed of the word of God implanted in the soul abides there as a constant, vital principle, so that he who is born of God cannot become habitually a sinner, and,

(2.) that it will so continue to live there that he will not fall away and perish. The idea is clearly that this principle so permanently abides in the soul, that he who is renewed never can become again characteristically a sinner.
---lee1538 on 3/10/12


Lee one minute. Let's assume I said this!
EXACTLY, while we are freed from the slavery or bondage of sin if we are genuine Christians, we now have the chose to sin or not to sin.

Really!
You hear your words?
You said of sin, but its the law. But lets go with sin.
If as you say, you are freed of it! And you have a chose. What would that chose have to be?
For Free you are already! But, you tell me, what chose is that?

God does not make robots out of us when we become His children.
Because you have no other chose! But, To do thy will oh lord, whos will? God's!
Go ahead, chose one!
A choice come on.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/10/12


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"Big fundamentalist problem, not categorizing "sin"" 1stClif

Big work-mongers problem - "categorizing sin". "For the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23. Did Paul "categorized sin" in this straightforward judgment?

"and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:22,28.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10
---christan on 3/10/12


many claim they are without sin because they are TAUGHT to believe that ...they listen to false ministers who dismiss Holy Scripture which states when we believe we have no sin we make Christ a LIAR 1John 1:8-10

anyone can claim they are sinless however GOD WARNS through the Apostle John when anyone claims they are sinless they are calling Christ a liar

there is no human today WITHOUT sin
---Rhonda on 3/10/12


Rhonda: blogger8980 is correct.

Heb 10:2 "once purged should have NO MORE CONSCIENCE OF SINS".

And Christ offered ONE sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:12
And in that ONE OFFERING we have been sanctified (Heb 10:10) and perfected (Heb 10:14).

NOW for Christians there is NO MORE CONSCIENCE OF SINS. Our PAST sins have been forgiven Rom 3:25.
HOW shall we that are DEAD TO SIN, live any longer in it (Rom 6:2)? We have died and are FREED from sin (Rom 6:7).

We are now servants of righteousness (Rom 6:18) and being born of God/having His SEED in us, we CANNOT sin (1John3:9).

Jesus truly set us free from sin, John8:36
---Haz27 on 3/10/12


lee1538: Rom 3:25 says: "for the remission of sins that are PAST".
Since it's ONLY PAST sins, BEFORE coming to Christ, that are forgiven, where does one stand claiming they still sin?

You claim Christians behave when walking in the Spirit. BUT when they are naughty, their walking in the flesh. Wrong.

Consider that in the flesh is death and in the Spirit is life. You suggest we live a daily routine of Russian roulette. When we die will we be in the flesh (slipping up) OR in the Spirit, when that happens? And what if we forgot to "repent" of a "sin"?

Rom 7:24 asks WHO shall deliver me? Answer: Christ Jesus.
And Rom 8:9 confirms this saying "BUT ye are NOT in the flesh".
---Haz27 on 3/10/12


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New Covenant - the precious blood of Jesus, being a much greater and more excellent sacrifice, TAKES AWAY sin and purges our consciences from dead works to serve the living God
*****

now that is gross misunderstanding in its highest form

the BLOOD of Christ reconciles mankind to GOD ...HIS blood does NOTHING for sin

however the DEATH of Christ removes PAST sins because through DEATH Christ becomes the new covenant lamb who has replaced the sacrifice of bulls and goats

to claim one no longer sins is not only FOOLISH it contradicts Holy Scripture - as John taught when we believe we have no sin we make Christ a LIAR 1John 1:8-10

the ONLY sinless human to walk earth was Christ
---Rhonda on 3/10/12


lee1538 & Mark_V: Can you answer these questions to help me understand your "habitual sin" doctrine?

If someone becomes a Christian for the last remaining 30 years of their life, where are they placed in the following 2 scenarios?

1: They occasionally lie, get angry at others, lustfully look at another their attracted to, etc, throughout their 30 years as a Christian.

2: They are daily living in adultery or smoking/drinking for their 30 years as a Christian.

Are both these types of Christians in "habitual" sin?
---Haz27 on 3/10/12


Old Covenant - blood of bulls and goats covered sin for one year. The conscience of the worshippers not cleansed.

New Covenant - the precious blood of Jesus, being a much greater and more excellent sacrifice, TAKES AWAY sin and purges our consciences from dead works to serve the living God.

Anyone who does not believe that the blood of Jesus did something greater than the blood of bulls and goats is counting it of no more worth than an animal sacrifice....and they do it despite unto the spirit of grace.
---blogger8980 on 3/10/12


Haz27//Those who sin are SERVANTS OF SIN, John8:34
But Jesus set us free from sin, John8:36.
----
Yes, you are correct in that we are no longer slaves (or servants) to sin since we now have a chose to sin or not to sin. That much is obvious.

John 8:34 Jesus said, "I tell you most solemnly that anyone who chooses a life of sin is trapped in a dead-end life and is, in fact, a slave.
(8:36) So if the Son sets you free, you are free through and through.
---lee1538 on 3/10/12


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duane //Flesh and blood can never turn from sin. We need Christ. Thats when we are freed from sin.
---
You are STILL flesh & blood. While Christ has freed you from the slavery of sin, you now have a chose to either sin or not to sin. And if you no longer sin, you have reached the goal that all the saints before us have not achieved.

If we abide in Him and He in us, that we consistently walk by His Spirit we do not sin. However, the flesh wars against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh.

Ro 7:23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

This verse is in the present tense.
---lee1538 on 3/10/12


//The question is not misleading at all. Milk is an analogy of teaching, i.e. milk vs. meat of the word. That makes the analagy misleading.//

ok. i knew milk would be turned into something that i did not intend. in any analogy, we should be able to sustitute something reasonable, and it is still supposed to hold true.

If we are partakers of [oranges], yet we are still [rotten], does that mean the [oranges] [are rotten]?

the question is misleading.
---aka on 3/10/12


TheSeq//Your flesh will always sin....But, you cannot sin in spirit. ....The door is still open.
---
EXACTLY, while we are freed from the slavery or bondage of sin if we are genuine Christians, we now have the chose to sin or not to sin. God does not make robots out of us when we become His children.

One major problem with those who believe Christians are sinfree, is that they cannot use any modern version of the Bible as support. And in that they claim to be more knowledgeable of God's word than the translators of the Bible.

Secondly, if they are sinfree, then they have achieved something that no other saint in the history of Christianity has been able to do.
---lee1538 on 3/10/12


For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Look at the things said here. Bearing in mind, no one is trying to hurt anyone.
But arent you saying you dont understand, what God saying!
You, yourself not understanding that it must come from God!
In this, arent you hurting the other conscience, as well as your own!
Mortify the deeds of the flesh and live!

Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/10/12


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Big fundamentalist problem,not categorizing "sin"
Jesus came and gave His life to nullify the "Adamic" sin, the one that causes us to die!
JN.1.29. "Look the lamb of God that takes away the "SIN"(singular) of the world"
Other personal sins (envy, strife lust etc.) are forgiven on a daily basis when asked for, else why did Jesus say in Mat.6. "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"?
---1st_cliff on 3/10/12


"ALL DO NOT SIN, nor come short of the glory of God". Romans 3 is ONLY comparing "SINNING" Jews with "SINNING Gentiles", and is NOT misjudging All people nor blaspheming the Righteous saints as falling short of the glory of God. lit.Gk: "Even the righteousness of God by obeying Jesus Christ onto each and upon whosoever them obeying: seeing there is not a difference, as each sinned, indeed whoever lacking glory of God." Whom is Paul addressing? Only the SINNING Jew whom has made themself equal to the SINNING Gentile.
---Eloy on 3/10/12


Mark_V: What "sin" does 1John1:8 AND 1John3:6-9 speak of?
And why ignore the context of 1John1:8?

And what is this "habitual" level of sin? Is it 7x70? Have you known anyone who exceeded that level proving they are of the devil?

And yes, all come short of the glory of God. But look at the conetxt of this in Rom 3. It's preaching the gospel. It already explained how the law shows up the whole world as guilty.
Note how Rom 3:25 says "the remission of sins that are PAST".
Since it's ONLY the PAST sins, BEFORE coming to Christ, that are forgiven, where does that leave you in your claim you still sin?

That's why 1John3:9 says Christians CANNOT sin, for HIS SEED remains in them.
---Haz27 on 3/10/12


We have repented of sin when we turn to Christ . Sin is unbelief in HIM.
*****

sin is defined as breaking of GODS Holy laws ...there is no "law" that states mankind must believe in Christ

sin is NEVER defined as "unbelief"

however without BELIEF in Christ and obeying HIM one cannot inherit the GIFT of salvation
---Rhonda on 3/10/12


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Haz, I want to believe that the Truth is in you and Duane, but you insist that the Truth is not in you (1 John 1:8) and insist God is a liar ( 1 John 1:10). And that is your problem with God. Here you asked me,

"What are these "deeds" we have to put off?" (Rom. 8:13)

Your sin Haz. The deeds of the flesh are sinful acts, habitual sins. When Christ saves you, spiritually, your sins are forgiven. Physically you are still a sinner. The flesh has not been redeemed. Sanctification is the work of the Spirit in a believers life. You suggest you don't need sanctification. God has ordered that sorrow and misery shall be the inescapable results of sin. "All come short of the glory of God."
---Mark_V. on 3/10/12


lee1538 said:
"Those that think they are not sinners are those who will never repent of their sins."

Clearly you misunderstand.

Those who sin are SERVANTS OF SIN, John8:34
But Jesus set us free from sin, John8:36.

So Christians WERE servants of sin before coming to Christ, but we obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered to us, Rom 7:17

Being then made FREE FROM SIN, we became servants of righteousness, Rom 7:18.

Christians HAVE repented and are NOW righteous and holy in Christ.
---Haz27 on 3/9/12


Lee,
We have repented of sin when we turn to Christ . Sin is unbelief in HIM.
Flesh and blood can never turn from sin. We need Christ. Thats when we are freed from sin.
---duane on 3/9/12


Is it just me or does it seem like, something is missing?
Like a good understanding of what it is you all are saying.

Christ spoke to the dead, even though they were walking and talking.
He also spoke of those who will sleep and are asleep, always trying to wake them up.
He spoke of some who are awake, but will ever come to a full understanding.
Lastly he spoke of the living, those that are alive and living in the spirit of God.

Your flesh will always sin. Indeed your flesh is sin.
But, you cannot sin in spirit. All sin is without the spirit.
In the deeds of the flesh, there is no sin in the spirit.
The door is still open.
---TheSeg on 3/9/12


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the question is misleading.\\
---aka on 3/9/12

The question is not misleading at all. Milk is an analogy of teaching, i.e. milk vs. meat of the word. That makes the analagy misleading.

I didn't say we are partakers of a teaching, we are partakers of God himself.

Partakers in regeneration, indwelling, sealing, baptism etc., all of them pertaining to this temple in which the Spirit dwells. The Spirit cleans this temple, indwells it, then seals it, and anoints the Holy of Holies.

Our inner man MUST be sinless for the Holy Spirit to dwell in it
---James_L on 3/9/12


//Its kind of odd, that so many will fight to the end and try to prove that Christ did not come to put away sin and they are sinners, as if HIS blood only covers sin.

While God looks upon us as having the righteousness of Christ, the church has always taught that we are sinners saved by grace.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Those that think they are not sinners are those who will never repent of their sins.
---lee1538 on 3/9/12


James_L said: "We are the temple of God. Does God reside in a sinful temple? Or has it been cleaned first, like Jesus taught?
Did Paul write to the sinners at Rome? or the sinners at Ephesus? or the sinners at Corinth? Or did he write to the saints?"

Good points.

We are saints. We are righteous and NOT sinners (1Pet 4:18, 1John3:6-9). we are holy (Rom 11:16).

We are baptized into Christ/put on Christ (Gal 3:27). And in Christ there is NO sin (1John3:5).
As James_L asked, "Does God reside in a sinful temple?"
If you are still in sin then how can you be in Christ where there is no sin?
---Haz27 on 3/9/12


Its kind of odd, that so many will fight to the end and try to prove that Christ did not come to put away sin and they are sinners, as if HIS blood only covers sin.
Only HIS saints will enter in, the rest are sinners. I cant say where they will go.
The only Christian I know has been freed from sin. Christians are saints, not sinners.
---duane on 3/9/12


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Many people walking the earth today do not live in sin
Job 1:8 Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?


Many people today are holy
2 Peter 1:21 but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he JESUS) is righteous.
---francis on 3/9/12


"What rightly we say then? will we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid! How could we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? This knowing, that the old person of us was crucified together, in order that might be wholly abolished the body which sin, who's no longer enslaving to us the sin. Likewise regard all you also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus the Lord of us." Rm.6:1,2,6,11.
---Eloy on 3/9/12


Saints are not sinners, the sheep are not the goats, and the wheat is not the tares: "You all will know them by their fruits. Every good tree brings forward good fruit, but a corrupt tree brings forward bad fruit. A good tree cannot bring forward bad fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forward good fruit. Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree rotten and its fruit rotten: for from the fruit the tree is known. Every tree that brings not forward good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you all will know them." - Jesus Christ
---Eloy on 3/9/12


kevin5443:

Revelation 14:1,4
"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand...
...These are they which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins..."

This says nothing about them being undefiled or sinless. Only that they were undefiled with women, i.e. they are virgins.

there are other scriptures that say that ALL have sinned.
---StrongAxe on 3/9/12


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Mark_V: Rom 8:10 says: "And if Christ be in you, the body IS dead because of sin".
But in your post you had changed the tense here to "will die".

Also you quoted, "but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

What are these "deeds" we have to put off?
If you think it refers to living a good lifestyle/keeping 10 commandments, then I think we're all agreed here that you won't be able to keep them perfectly.

BUT, the "deeds" or sin we put off through the Spirit is unbelief (John16:9). We no longer seek to establish our own self-righteousness, recognizing that it is nothing more than filthy rags.
Our righteousness is in Christ.
---Haz27 on 3/9/12


James_L Romans 8:5-9 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Ergo, if the Spirit of God dwells within you THEN you are NOT in the flesh.

Reading RC Sproul on Romans 'the Righteous shall live by faith' elucidates on this issue.
---lee1538 on 3/9/12


There were may things said here in Christianet like dead does not mean dead", faith in Christ being equated with faith in the Taxman and cars", but this? It really deserves an Oscar,

"So you are not "walking" in the flesh, even though you still "reside" in the flesh."

How does a spirit and soul residing in the earthen vessel that's till alive in the flesh not be "walking around" and when it's "walking around"? Have you been watching to many reruns of "Invasion of The Body Snatchers"? Amazing, you really take Paul's teaching of Romans 7 to another level, not higher but definitely lower.
---christan on 3/9/12


\\If your flesh is dead because of sin, it means that while you are walking around as a believer literally, you walk in the flesh and it will die because of sin yet spiritually, your alive to God.\\
---Mark_V. on 3/9/12

That is exactly what scripture teaches, Mark

it says that the MIND set on the flesh is at enmity with God.

And in Rom 7 Paul said that with the mind, we agree that the law is good. THEREFORE, it is no longer the believer who is sinning, it is the flesh that is sinning.

So you are not "walking" in the flesh, even though you still "reside" in the flesh
---James_L on 3/9/12


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Dont insult the work of Christ and say we are sinners.
****

and to claim one is "sinless" they have no truth 1John 1:8

no TRUTH no Christ

REMEMBER the wicked do not have a high priest they are WITHOUT Christ

True Believers have Christ who as our high priest intercedes on our behalf when we stumble and fall (sin) and seek forgiveness through prayer

problem with those who claim they are "gods" and foolishly claim they do not sin ...they are deceived into believing they are perfect and perfect MORTAL men may have Christ on their lips yet Christ said these people are NONE OF HIS

don't follow or listen to those who claim they are WITHOUT any sin there is no TRUTH in their words!!
---Rhonda on 3/9/12


\\Ro 7:23-25....8:9\\
---lee1538 on 3/8/12

lee (part 1)
If you back up a few verses, there is more to it.


Rom 7:15-25
the good that I want to do, I do not do

But If I Am Doing The Very Thing I Do Not Want,

I AM NO LONGER THE ONE DOING IT
But Sin Which Dwells In Me

I joyfully concur...In The INNER MAN
But I see a different law in the members of my BODY
Who will set me free from this BODY of death?

8:5-9
Those according to the FLESH set their MINDS on the flesh

those according to the SPIRIT, the things of the spirit

the MIND set on the flesh is hostile toward God

You are not of the flesh if the Spirit of God dwells in You.
---James_L on 3/9/12


Here again every time you look for sin, you will find it!
He said if ye were blind ye would have no sin.
But now you say we see, therefore your sin remains.

Now no longer do you sin in the law, you are now seeing sin outside the law.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

You say you believe God, then why is it so hard for you to believe him.
Either you believe he did what he said he would do or you dont believe he did what he said.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/9/12


If we are partakers of the divine nature, yet we are still sinful, does that mean the divine is sinful? ---James_L on 3/8/12

If we are partakers of [milk], yet we are still [spoiled], does that mean the [milk] is [spoiled]?

the question is misleading.

//Old age and death are the result of sin (Adamic)//
---1st_cliff on 3/8/12

very true. the flesh must die.

//Furthermore, you will not be able to find anyone educated in the [whole] Bible that will agree with you that once a Christian we no longer sin, only that we have been set free from its bondage and dominion.

... you really do not recognize sin when you do just that.//
---lee1538 on 3/8/12

well said. i just inserted whole bible.
---aka on 3/9/12


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Haz, I give you no amens, you said,
"In the physical we're not perfect, but physical is dead because of sin anyway, Rom 8:10.

Did you read the rest of the context? If your flesh is dead because of sin, it means that while you are walking around as a believer literally, you walk in the flesh and it will die because of sin yet spiritually, your alive to God.
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors-not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you are living according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."
We belong to God, we are debtors to Him. We should be putting to death the deeds of the body, why? because we still sin..
---Mark_V. on 3/9/12


lee1538, I assume you were quoting Barnes commentary on John8:36? Did it offer any references to why it re-worded scripture that way?

And did Barnes also explain what extent of sinning determines if someone is in "habitual" sin, as spoken of in 1John3:6-9. Also did it give a definition of the sin spoken of here?

We would really be better off not trusting in commentaries.
God says that the anointing we have received of him teaches us all things so we have no need that any man teach us, 1John2:27.
Trust in Him, not commentaries.
---Haz27 on 3/9/12


People who say they are still sinners after they have believed and been born again have never really heard or understand the Gospel. We dont identify with sin(satan), we identify with Christ within(without sin) perfect before God, HIS saints forever.
Dont insult the work of Christ and say we are sinners.
We have been freed from sin. Jesus came to put away sin, now believe it.
---duane on 3/9/12


"Evil will slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous will be condemned. Evil pursues sinners, but to the righteous good will be repaid. Now we know that God hears not sinners, but if any person be a worshipper of God, and does his will, that person he hears. Awake to righteousness, and sin not: for some have not the knowledge of God, I speak to your shame. Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from sin. And every person that has this hope in them purifies themself, even as he is pure." Ps.34:21+ Pv.13:21+ Jn.9:31+ I Cor.15:34+ II Tm.2:19+ 1 Jn.3:3.
---Eloy on 3/9/12


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duane...Haz....I believe you are absolutly correct.
We have died to sin.We have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. When God looks at believers He does not see sin. He sees the righteousness of Christ.
It takes faith to believe this.
---JIM on 3/9/12


THE BODY (flesh & blood):

Scripture declares, "It is sown in corruption, It is sown in dishonour, it is sown in weakness, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." This part of man is already cursed and dealt with by God. Death in the flesh is guaranteed 100%!

Even the Christian will die in the flesh. And why? "The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law." That's to fulfill the curse by God on Adam and his posterity, "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

The flesh will never ever be made perfect by God.
---christan on 3/9/12


Haz27//John 8:36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Shall make you free. Shall deliver you from the bondage and dominion of sin,not from sin itself.

I am more inclined to believe the commentaries written by those the Lord has called into the ministry of teaching.

Furthermore, you will not be able to find anyone educated in the Bible that will agree with you that once a Christian we no longer sin, only that we have been set free from its bondage and dominion.

Sorry but I strongly suspect that you really do not recognize sin when you do just that.
---lee1538 on 3/8/12


Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well, for I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet, ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
---TheSeg on 3/8/12


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James_L //If we are partakers of the divine nature, yet we are still sinful, does that mean the divine is sinful?

Perhaps a good course in the book of Romans would help you answer these questions.

Ro 7:23-25 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

(8:9) But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit indwells you.
---lee1538 on 3/8/12


Rather than a sarcastic "is anybody out there walking around sinless?"

we should ponder:

How does God wash us, yet we're still dirty?

Dos God take our heart of stone and give us a heart of flesh, yet there's no difference?

If we are partakers of the divine nature, yet we are still sinful, does that mean the divine is sinful?

How are all things are new, yet you're still the same old guy?

What about you has been regenerated?

We are the temple of God. Does God reside in a sinful temple? Or has it been cleaned first, like Jesus taught?

Did Paul write to the sinners at Rome? or the sinners at Ephesus? or the sinners at Corinth? Or did he write to the saints?
---James_L on 3/8/12


Haz, You need to sire a child now and that child will never die seeing it's father is sin less!
Do you walk on water and glow in the dark?
You need to go on a TV talk show so everyone can see a sinless person because you will never age!
Old age and death are the result of sin (Adamic)
Write a book on your 200th birthday, you will be famous!
---1st_cliff on 3/8/12


"You all will be holy to me: for I Yhwh your God holy. But your wrongs are separating between you and your God, and your sins have hidden face from you, that he will not hear. But go sin no more. If the Son therefore sets you free, you all will be free indeed. And together will be the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners, and consumed they that forsake Yhwh. Note, the day of Yhwh comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he will destroy the sinners thereof out of it. And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the Righteous into life eternal. Then shall the Righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father."
---Eloy on 3/8/12


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lee1538: Your correct. Not many refer to God's definitions of sin.
But your SDA mates at least refer to one of the definitions:
1John3:4 Sin is transgression of the law.

But it's interesting to note how many in churches speak of sin WITHOUT reference to God's definitions provided in His word. Is it any wonder why there is so much misunderstanding.

Try using God's definitions of sin and then you will understand what Christ did for us and how he truly set us free from sin John8:36
---Haz27 on 3/8/12


\\In the physical we're not perfect, but physical is dead because of sin anyway, Rom 8:10.\\
---Haz27 on 3/8/12

I say a loud AMEN to this.

The reason this is the minorit view, and cannot be corroborated by commentaries, is that many are hung up on "imputed" righteousness, and do not embrace the scriptural teaching of regeneration - an ACTUAL righteousness, where our spirit is reborn with a new nature - we become partakers of the divine, SINLESS nature

in Christ = new creation

What's new if you're still the same old guy who's merely "viewed" as sinless ????
---James_L on 3/8/12


Haz27//You use ambiguous definitions of sin hence your misunderstanding of the likes of 1John3:6-9 and 1John1:8.
---
Your interpretation is clearly a minority view if it is that much, that no Biblical expositor would subscribe to your viewpoint.

I do believe that in your view, one is really blind to ones own sinfulness and essentially ignores most of what we would read in Romans regarding the law and sin.
---lee1538 on 3/8/12


Isnt it funny how everyone talks about how Christ died on the cross for you?
Specifically for the forgiveness of sin, and then talk about how one is not under the law only more.
And yet you call me a sinner.
And So i am!

So let me see if I understand this!
Christ died for the forgiveness for sin.
And I am not under the law any more.
And yet, I sin! Is this about right?

Is it just me or does it seem like, something is missing?
Like a good understanding of what it is you all are saying.
Just my opinion!

Pease enlighten me.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/8/12


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Mark_V you asked in other blog the following questions:
"1. "Do you sin?" yes or no?
2. "If you do sin doesn't that make you a sinner?" Yes or not?
3. "Is your sin, not sin anymore?" Yes or No?
4. Are you completely Holy now?"

BUT we have discussed these questions long ago. Have you forgotten?

Briefly, my answer to your questions. In Christ I cannot sin, I am not a sinner, and I am holy. All this is confirmed in scripture. But I stress that to understand this you need to understand what God defines as sin.

You use ambiguous definitions of sin hence your misunderstanding of the likes of 1John3:6-9 and 1John1:8.
---Haz27 on 3/8/12


No, no one is without sin even if they are saved until the ressurection occurs.
---Candice on 3/8/12


absolutely not,there has only been one human being ,born without sin and his name was jesus,scripture tells us all have sinned and fall short, ALL means everyone.
---tom2 on 3/8/12


Mark V,No one will ever be as pure as God-Christ. A person who immerses themself in God,his Word,service and lives by the Word completely can live a life without sin. A lot of Christians think when thoughts come in their mind which is contrary to being a Christian they have sinned,that isn't true. When that happens if the person rebukes those thoughts and Satan and his spirits,when they fight thoughts,or feelings they are not sinning but doing what God would want them to, not accept temptation,just as Christ fought Satan with the Word we can to. Jesus came to take away our sins and we only sin when led astray by our own lusts. We are given power over all the power of the enemy and we let God,the power,fight our battles againest sin,we can win.
---Darlene_1 on 3/8/12


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We wont be perfect tell we enter heaven?? I think we wont enter heaven tell we ARE perfect, for no sin shall enter.
Jesus Christ has made us perfect, thus the reason for a messiah and a new birth. Dont think for a moment the old man will ever overcome sin. Its Christ in you, the new man.
HE is the way. Trust HIM and be perfect forever.
---duane on 3/8/12


Many here on CN, because they are in Christ, are sinless/holy.

Rom 11:16 "For if the firstfruit (Jesus) is holy, the lump is also holy".

1John3:9 "Whosoever is born of God does NOT commit sin, for HIS SEED remaineth in him: and he CANNOT sin, because he is BORN OF GOD"

1John5:1 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is BORN OF GOD"

In the physical we're not perfect, but physical is dead because of sin anyway, Rom 8:10.
Instead we "henceforth know no man after the flesh", "if any man be in Christ he is a NEW CREATURE (sinless/holy) 2Cor 5:16,17
We've been baptized into Christ/put on Christ, Gal 3:27.
And in Christ there is NO SIN 1John3:5
---Haz27 on 3/8/12


I believe what people read:
1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Its not that you dont sin (by the law.) but that you know, more believe your sins will be forgiven!
Mat_7:12! If you cant see it done for your brother, why should it be done for you?

1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

And you are only a child of the devil in your words, until the day, you believe God!
Because he does live, Rom_14:11!
Just my opinion, right
---TheSeg on 3/8/12


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