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Israel And Iran War

Does anyone have any views on Israel's hostility towards Iran? I am torn between this issue from a foreign policy point of view and as a man of God.

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 ---Lewis on 3/12/12
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Lewis, I don't know what is tearing you up. It's simple. Israel is a small country in the middle of many Arab countries who are trying to exterminate them from the face of the world. If you have not heard what Iran's islamic leaders say not just about Israel but the world, it is because your ears are close as the ears of Allan's. If our country was in the middle of those Arab countries, we would have already taken care of the problem if we had a Republican president. Israel does not need our permission to defend themselves. Peace talks do not change the minds of the Islamic terrorist. Only force will change their minds. Israel has enough weapons to defend themselves. The last war lasted six days, the next one a few hours.
---Mark_V. on 3/31/12


Eloy: Obama the Terrible is an enemy of America. He, like Iran, is a force for evil in the earth.


---jerry6593 on 3/31/12


Allan, just kidding ,)
---Jed on 3/30/12


I smiled at the last comment and I do not believe that sentiment, for a minute. To hate consumes too much energy and effort and offers no benefits in return.

On the point at issue, it is always very easy to compare oneself with the worst examples and then claim glory and virtue. However, those who claim glory and virtue as principal belief should, at least, have their practice exemplify those lofty claims.

Very simply, the claims of goodness are not good. Goodness is!
---Allan on 3/30/12


Allan, don't listen to MarkV. We all hate you.
---Jed on 3/30/12




Allan, I wanted to make something clear, I do not hate you for what you believe. You have a right to believe what you want. I also have a right to oppose what you believe. And really, you sound like you don't like America. And there is many countries where you can go in order to be happy.
Any time a country is at the top as we are, we are blame for everything. All the other countries who are not on the top, no one seems to care what they do. Go and try been a Christian in Sudan, or Iran, see how much freedom you will have there.
---Mark_V. on 3/27/12


Allan, I interpret history without been bias as you have. You only looked at the bad we do, not the good we have done. You only looked at Iran in what they haven't done, and neglect what they have done.
When we look at actions from all countries we can see that sin is very much alive everywhere. But this country has lost many men fighting for the freedom of so many countries. You dare to compare us with Iran, and it is because of you bias towards the US. The only reason you can say bad things about the US is because of your freedom. If you lived in Iran and spoke against them, you would be in jail. So if you hate America, move to Iran. You do sound just like Jane Fonda did when she was overseas kissing the enemy. Liberals at their best.
---Mark_V. on 3/26/12


Allan, what you are saying is wrong. Plain and simple. You are posting blatant lies and defending terrorists. You are wrong, not America and not Israel.
---Jed on 3/25/12


MarkV:

You are inclined to interpret history in your peculiar and convenient way. However, it should be difficult to present America as the bearer of freedom if you looked at its record. It would seem to me that any country that gives freedom to other countries would certainly give freedom to its own citizens, first. Unless, of course, you do not think that blacks, Japanese and Native Americans are American citizens.

All you have to do is name the countries that Iran has invaded and the millions of men, women and children that they it has killed in its rampages across the world.
---Allan on 3/25/12


Jed:
If you committed a crime for all to see and a member of your family or a neighbour told you that you that you were wrong, does that mean the person who reminded of the wrongness of your action hates you? I imagine that when you point wrongness of anyones actions, you did it because you hate them.
Jed, wrongness is not a function of the perpetrator or the victim. Wrongness is very simply wrong!
God requires the Believer to acknowledge his sinful condition as beneficiary of salvation. Is God requiring you to accept that you are wrong because He hates you?
I have stated only the factual history of the US in the world. Should you not accept what is US official record? You do not have to like it of course.
---Allan on 3/25/12




jerry6593, President Barack Obama has done more for the country than the last handle of presidents all put together. He has my vote.
---Eloy on 3/24/12


Eloy: "I wish the American government, before permitting foreigners to become citizens in this country, have them swear an oath and sign it that they will uphold the laws of the land "

But then we'd have to deport Obama. Good Plan!
---jerry6593 on 3/24/12


I wish the American government, before permitting foreigners to become citizens in this country, have them swear an oath and sign it that they will uphold the laws of the land, that they will not sue Americans in our courts to discriminate and censor against our Christianity and our God and Holy Bible, and that they will not be hostile nor violent nor murder American citizens, and if they cannot swear nor certify to this, then they cannot enter nor settle in our country, because we believe in love, not hate, and we do not believe in violence and murder. Then if they are caught breaking their oath, dseport them out of the country and bar them from ever allowed to enter again.
---Eloy on 3/24/12


Allan, you almost seem to dislike America as much as Obama. We're such bad people. I'm sure the world would be a much better place without us. Everyone loves extreme islamic terrorist and Nazi rule!
---Jed on 3/23/12


Allan, I can only speak for myself. You have the nerve to compare us to Iran. If you read history you would know that if it wasn't for the US almost all countries would have no freedom. I don't remember Iran bringing freedom to the world, all I see is the evil intend they have by training terrorist to distabolize the whole world with the Islamic fear the bring to every country. You dare to compare us to them. If you love them so much to say what you do, why don't you live there? You know why? Because you would have no real freedom.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/12


MarkV:
There is no need to throw labels. They only detract from the importance of the issues.

I know that you are a fair minded person and you know that history does not begin at the point when you choose to begin it. And I also recognize that you think that you must take a certain position in regards to America's role in the world. However, in reference to Iran, I suggest you review Operation Ajax, 1953. And then take a look at America's own record of death and destruction since world war II. I am asking you to read the history, written by America, as to the deaths and destruction it has inflicted on the world. Then compare the details with Iran.
---Allan on 3/23/12


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MarkV, Since God prophesied the bloody killing of his Son by condemned sinners, still makes the condemned sinners responsible and condemned sinners. He didn't stop there, he also prophesied the Resurrection of Christ from the vile hands of the condemned sinners. As far as the necessity of Christ's sacrifice, that goes without saying, but the issue is, those whome committed the crime are still condemned, they are not graced NOR does God say to these evil ones, "Well done and good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your Lord." No, he will cast them into the everlasting lake of fire and brimstone for their unspeakable sin.
---Eloy on 3/23/12


maybe I don't understand world events as much as maybe someone else but if I was Iran, Iraq, Afganistan or any other middle east nation, I would not want to attack Israel. They better run the other way.
---shira4368 on 3/23/12


Eloy, you said,

"MarkV, Just because God declares the end from the beginning, prophesying that sinners will blaspheme and persecute and kill the prophets whom he sends to Jerusalem, even his only Son, this foretelling does not equal the same thing as God condoning or winking at the sinners for killing his children, even his only Son"

Of course God does not condone or winks at sinners for killing His Son. But He knew they would, for Christ was foreknown as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world. The fact is, if God had wanted to not save no one, Christ would not have been sacrificed. All would be heading to hell.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/12


MarkV, Just because God declares the end from the beginning, prophesying that sinners will blaspheme and persecute and kill the prophets whom he sends to Jerusalem, even his only Son, this foretelling does not equal the same thing as God condoning or winking at the sinners for killing his children, even his only Son. Why do you think God turned away his face, and there was pitch darkness over the whole world, from that gruesome sight of what the wicked were doing to Jesus? Believe you me Mark, there will be unspeakable hell to pay for each person that dared to raise a hand against all the holy ones of God. It will be more tolerable for Sodom and Amorah than for these.
---Eloy on 3/22/12


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God planting the tree in the middle of his garden is not the sin. So please stop blaming the unblamable, for that what mankind is 100% responsible for, for the woman and man freely chose to do sin against God, by freely eating of that what God had clearly commanded: "Of all trees of the garden see you, eating you will eat. But of the tree of knowledge of good and bad here in the middle of the garden, see that you eat not."
---Eloy on 3/23/12


A theist: "My morality is in truth similar to yours, it come [sic] with that feeling that to do a thing is right or wrong."

You told me what your morality is not based on, and hinted that it was based on your feelings. Is it?

And NO, my morality is not based on my feelings (those get me into trouble). My morality is based on the Bible - particularly the Ten Commandments.


---jerry6593 on 3/23/12


Allan, I was going to say you must be from another country to compare us with Iran, then I thought about it and changed my mind. We have enough liberals in the USA that speak just like you. You forgot Japan attacked us, that none of the countries in Europe would have freedom if it wasn't for the US soldiers who died for their freedom. Maybe you've forgotten the terrorist who train in Iran. Or the hostages they kept for all that time. Or forgotten how many lost their lives because of the USA's committment to help weaker countries been attack. The freedom of the world comes at the expense of many American lives, so before you condemn us and compare us to Iran, think of the lives lost to protect even your life and give you the freedom you have.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/12


Jed:
Obviously, we are living in two different universes, but perhaps, the answers to these questions would bring you back to this universe.

(i)Name a single country that Iran has inavded in the last one hundred years.

(ii) Name the countries that Israel has invaded in the last 25 years.

(iii) Name the most powerful military in the Middle-east

(iv)Name the Middle-eastern country that has hundreds of nuclear warheads?

(v) Name the countries that Israel has inavaded, in the last 25 years.

(vi)Name the Middle-eastern country that is threatening inavded Iran, right now.

(vii) How many citizens, of other countries, has the Iranian military killed?

Being factual is still a good idea.
---Allan on 3/22/12


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God created people with the capability to sin, and made rules He knew they would break. So God is at least indirectly the author of sin. That's good, because if we were never alienated from God, we could never experience reconciliation with God.
---Pat.pat on 3/22/12


Eloy, in two sentences you explained clearly the Ordain will of God, what He decreed before the foundation of the world to happen, and how it is accomplish by man through their own sin. He does not make them sin, they sin of their own will and are responsible for their sin and yet they accomplish the will of God, when you said,

"MarkV, Because Christ was prophesied to die for his people, does not absolve the people whom sinned by violating the Holy One of Israel, and beating him and stripping him and spitting upon him and killing him on the cross: prophecy of a future event does not free the person fulfilling that event."
---Mark_V. on 3/22/12


atheist, You say that you don't believe in God, whom alone has established the morality for mankind which he has made, commanding, "Thou Shalt and Thou Shalt Not..." But you say that you have a feeling of what is right and wrong, how can you possibly have any feeling of right and wrong when you have zero belief in God whom sets down in detail exactly that what is right and good, and that what is wrong and bad? Atheist, stop being so full of yourself, and accept the fact that you are held accountable to God for whatsoever you do, both in this lifetime and in that to come.
---Eloy on 3/22/12


My morality is not based on the ostensible writings of men made based on claimed inspiration of a god or god, handed down and changed through error and/or political manipulation to suit the powers of the day.

My morality is in truth similar to yours, it come with that feeling that to do a thing is right or wrong.
---atheist on 3/22/12


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MarkV, Because Christ was prophesied to die for his people, does not absolve the people whom sinned by violating the Holy One of Israel, and beating him and stripping him and spitting upon him and killing him on the cross: prophecy of a future event does not free the person fulfilling that event. The blood of Innocent Christ is still upon their hands, for disgracing the holy Son from God. Even after their crime, when God caused darkness to cover the entire world in mid day for three hours, from 12 noon to 3 o'clock, and the earth quaked and the rocks burst apart and the saints rose from the dead, they still tried to cover it up and say someone came by night and stole away Christ's body, after he resurrected himself just as he said he would do.
---Eloy on 3/22/12


Eloy, you spoke the truth from history. The Arabs and persians hate Israel. The majority of the terrorist train in Iran. This division began with Ismael and Isaac. One with the promise the other without the promise. Most of the world despises Israel, for the simple reason that the RCC all through history taught that the Jews were parasites that needed to be put to shame because as they believed, it was the Jews who killed the Lord. They forgot that He was a Jew, and that He was predestined to die for the sins of many. We are told,
"that Christ was "foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" ( 1 Peter 1:20). It was the "blood of an eternal covenant" (Heb. 13:20).
---Mark_V. on 3/22/12


You got it backwards, the Iranians are hostile towards the Israelites.
---Eloy on 3/21/12


Allan, you sit completely oblivious to what is happening in the middle east if you really don't believe that Iran has terrorized Israel. You have no idea what you are talking about.
---Jed on 3/21/12


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Jed:

You made several statements attributed to Iran and none of the statements are are true. As a person who claims to know the God of truth, you should have a greater regard what is true.
---Allan on 3/21/12


Morality springs forth from social norms...

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Morality is learned behavior, here is an example:

Isaiah 1:17 "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
---Nana on 3/21/12


A theist: "Not sure what you think your point is."

Maybe if I ask it enough times, you'll get it.

Just exactly what is your morality based on? Social norms?


---jerry6593 on 3/21/12


Mark,

We find a point of agreement. Of course if you both know the true facts, then we must agree.
---atheist on 3/20/12


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Athiest, I cannot say you are going to hell or not. Only God knows that. I know I have a hope, His name is Jesus Christ. He is my hope. Many have no hope, and none of us know if someone is going to hell or not because we don't know if later they too will believe.
Concerning Hitler and the RCC. Record shows that In 1936 Bishop Berning of Osnabruch talked with the Fuhrer, Hitler assured the bishop there was no fundamental difference between National Socialism and the Catholic Church. Had not the church looked on Jews as parasites and shut them down in ghettos? He said, I'm only doing what the church has done for fifteen hundred years, only more effectively. Hitler told the bishop he admired him. and was promoting Christianity.
---Mark_V. on 3/20/12


Atheist, Pope Pius XII and Hitler never colluded as you described. They despised each other. What you said is just silly.
---Pat.pat on 3/19/12


When you see British and American warships entering the area, as they have a few months back. You should know what is about to happen.

Obviously the three allies are preparing for something big.
---John on 3/19/12


Gerry,

The German census of May 1939 indicates that 54 percent of Germans considered themselves Protestant and 40 percent considered themselves Catholic, with only 3.5 percent claiming to be neo-pagan "believers in God," and 1.5 percent unbelievers. This census came more than six years into the Hitler era.

Hitler was a Catholic, and the Pope conspired with him by giving out birth records to find Jews.

Not sure what you think your point is.
---atheist on 3/19/12


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A theist: You must have missed this. I'll try again.

Just exactly what is your morality based on? Social norms? How did that work out for the Nazis?


---jerry6593 on 3/19/12


Atheist I recently reconciled with an atheist on another site that I previously seriously conflicted with, we found a common ground & he reached out to me in friendship, I once doubted God's reality in my heart, later, He told me He "lives in the souls of all men."
---fred4949 on 3/17/12


Atheist, yup, and I got my marshmellows ready to roast too. Like a lot of true Christians, I gots a mean streak.
---Pat.pat on 3/17/12


atheist:

You said: A missionary of reason...

Ah, so a masochist then(Trying to teach someone who is unable or incapable of learning is a bit like hitting your head against a wall).

Also, you shouldn't consider us ALL "a sad bunch". I think the number of people who call themselves Christians and stock up on marhshmallows to roast while gleefully anticipating people burning in hell is a minority.
---StrongAxe on 3/17/12


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"I would be joyful if you ever believed that God has a hope for you."

AND

"He planned a certain way, designed it exactly as He wanted to design it, completed it....Your destiny has already been determined."

Mark


Well Mark it looks like I am going to burn or maybe not, depending on what god decided in his original design. Same for you it would seem. There may be some irony here for you and Pat. You both may burn, and I'll be saved.

How awesome is that?
---atheist on 3/17/12


Athiest, I won't get any enjoyment now knowing you will suffer in hell. I don't believe anyone of us would. I would be joyful if you ever believed that God has a hope for you. I was surprised that you pointed Pat to Christ because of what he said, which is very unusual for an athiest to do. I do believe Pat is just having fun while talking to you, I'm sure he doesn't get any enjoyment in you going to hell. No true believer would enjoy that.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/12


Pat,

So you won't be happy until people like me are tortured by fire for all eternity.

Yes, you are a sad sick bunch. I'd pray for you but I know it won't do any good. If you want to change you can, and I hope you do in a way that shows love for your fellow human beings. Maybe you should look into the teachings of Christ...
---atheist on 3/17/12


Athiest, you say my God is weak and you said,
'Your god seems a little weak if he needs men to exterminate children and women for him."

If fact you are so wrong. My God is outside of time. What He ordain to come to pass, has already come to pass before His eyes. He planned a certain way, designed it exactly as He wanted to design it, completed it, and it is all before His eyes. It is present before Him. yet to us who live through time are barely seeing the completion of it. Your destiny has already been determined. We who live in time don't know but He sure does, that is how Awesome My God is.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/12


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Atheist, yep we are a sad bunch. We can't be happy til after Armegeddon. Then we'll be happy and all the atheists will be a-sizzlin.
---Pat.pat on 3/16/12


A missionary of reason...
---atheist on 3/17/12


atheist:

If we are such a sad bunch, why do you hang around with us so much? Are you a sadist, or a masochist, or do you like roasting marshmellows at train wrecks?
---StrongAxe on 3/16/12


The execution of all male chidren and women of childbearing age insured the extermination of the Midianites and prevented them from ever again seducing Israel to sin.---Mark_V. on 3/16/12

Your god seems a little weak if he needs men to exterminate children and women for him.

Then just exactly what is your morality based on? Social norms? Jerry. Or the bible per Mark above.{How did that work out of the Israelites vs. the Midianites?}

Yes. Let Armageddon begin. It's the Christian thing to do.

You are a sad bunch.
---atheist on 3/16/12


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Mark v, it won't happen til all the elect are in, like you say. Maybe they are close to being all in. So let'r rip!
---Pat.pat on 3/16/12


Pat.pat:

As Mark V, pointed out, God does not WANT people to perish. So he does not WANT to wipe out billions of people. He does not WANT to destroy the earth (that he himself made, and said "it is good"). He is only doing so reluctantly because there is no other way.

Yes, we should eagerly await Jesus's return, but we should not be gleeful at the expense of the deaths of billions.

We should also be glad to receive our inheritance from our parents, but it would be selfish and evil to pray for them to die soon so that we can get it as quickly as possible.
---StrongAxe on 3/16/12


Pat-pat, I really think you mean well but what you are saying is wrong. You want things to happen now, and completely disregard all the elect who have not come to Christ yet. Strongaxe is correct when he said
"God is taking his own good time, and he's doing so for a reason" Here is why:

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promises, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward "us" (his elect) not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" All of the "Elect." (2 Peter 3:9).
---Mark_V. on 3/16/12


Strong Ax, God wants Armegeddon so we should too. If people run away from that truth, then they will run away from any bible truth.
---Pat.pat on 3/16/12


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Athiest, because you do not believe in the God of the Bible as so many so call Christians, you do not understand why God would command such an act in ( Numbers 31:7-20).
The execution of all male chidren and women of childbearing age insured the extermination of the Midianites and prevented them from ever again seducing Israel to sin. Reference to Midianites later (Judg. 6:1-6) was to a different clan. The Midianites living in Moab who were destroyed here. In order to preserve the nation of Israel. Salvation was later to come through Israel, not by Israel. All had to be the way God ordained it to be.
---Mark_V. on 3/16/12


A theist: Then just exactly what is your morality based on? Social norms? How did that work out for the Nazis?



---jerry6593 on 3/16/12


Pat.pat:

You seriously WANT Armageddon to come? Remember that the Revelation says that that from one event alone (the falling star Wormwood), one third of everyone on earth would die. That is over two billion people. If I was an unbeliever and heard someone in some religion was praying for two billion people to die, I would think they were from the worst kinds of death cult, and run away screaming!

God is taking his own good time, and he's doing so for a reason.
---StrongAxe on 3/16/12


We should all pray that Israel bombs Iran. Then Armegeddon will come and Jesus will come back. Hallelujah!
---Pat.pat on 3/15/12


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atheist, the foundation for morality is conscience & reason which is the Light of Christ, As far as Israel & Iran, Israel is in a desperate posture of sheer survival because of Iran's hatred & commitment to its annihilation.
---fred4949 on 3/15/12


Jerry,

Well one thing is for sure. You haven't got the high moral ground, listening to a god that tells the side he supports to murder everyone, but keep the virgins for themselves.

What? You think any morally sane person would use such nonsense as a foundation for morality? I amuse you? You make tears come to my eyes, but not the ones from laughing to hard...I amuse you,,,,I pity you.
---atheist on 3/15/12


If only Abraham hadn't sinned, we wouldn't have this problem between Israel and Iran - but he did. The mistake you make is assuming Israel is hostile towards Iran, but it's Iran who is treating Israel. By looking into Biblical history, you will discover God chose Israel to be the chosen race. Israel won't be defeated if they don't try to compromise or negotiate peace. To Iran,this is just a show of weakness. (Which is a mistake our government if making.) All this matter of talking does is give more time for Iran to get their battle plans ready for their attack.
---wivv on 3/15/12


Matthew 12:35 "A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things."
Mark 7:21_23 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."


jerry6593, morality come from the heart. Do you think this fellow do not have a heart like yours?
---Nana on 3/15/12


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A theist: It is always amusing to see an atheist take the high moral ground. Atheists have nothing to base their morality on but their own emotions. You believe that you are nothing but an evolving animal. Yet you decry brute behavior. Amusing.


---jerry6593 on 3/15/12


(Numbers 31:17-18) - "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. 18"But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves."

Go Israel, get your virgins now!

Go team, go...bomb everything but grab the virgins first. It is what god wants.

Right Jerry?
---atheist on 3/14/12


How has Israel show hostility towards Iran? For wanting to defend themselves? Israel is a very small country surrounded by much larger countries that are promising to wipe them off the face of the earth, and they are supposed to do nothing? If Iran warned the United States every day that they are going to wipe us off the planet, would we not take that as an act of war and do something? What if they were terrorizing and killing our citizens with suicide bombers and small rockets every day, would we not retaliate? Well, with this president we probably would just do nothing, but that's a whole separate problem. Iran threatens and terrorizes Israel every day as an act of war. They have a right to defend themselves againsts these terrorists.
---Jed on 3/14/12


Go Israel!
---jerry6593 on 3/14/12


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You got my vote today atheist as I agree that, "war is not a Natural disaster".
---Nana on 3/13/12


atheist//War is not a natural disaster.
---
Debateable as it seems to be in the nature of man to war against each other.
---lee1538 on 3/13/12


Iran is one of the oldest empires in the world.

When was the last time Iran STARTED a war?

How many wars have iran been involved with since it's founding?

What then are the odds that Iran would be an aggressor?
---francis on 3/13/12


Lee,

War is not a natural disaster.
---atheist on 3/13/12


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Jews were hostile toward Jesus, not only against Iran. And if Iran is hostile toward Israel, also ones Arab can be very cruel to each other. You can't control Satan's people > 2 Timothy 2:4, Ephesians 6:10-20, 2 Corinthians 10:3-6

Ones claim that Jews coming to Israel is what the Bible prophesies, that Israel would return to the LORD. But these Israelis are not obeying our Messiah Jesus. So, they have not returned to the LORD (Isaiah 10:20-23), if they don't obey Him. So, their return, to land only, could be a false return . . . not the prophesied return to the LORD and obeying Him, like it says Egypt also will do (Isaiah 19:19-25), which hasn't happened.
---willie_c: on 3/13/12


You don't actually think that God approves of everything the modern secular socialist state of Israel does, do you?

It has NOTHING to do with the true Israel of the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/13/12


War is one of those natural disasters that characterizes the human race.

Mt. 24:3f Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
---lee1538 on 3/13/12


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