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How To Prepare For A Baby

What would be better for a couple that it not ready for a baby? A: Remain abstinent, B: Use contraceptives but understand that they may fail and prepare to have a child if they do, or C: Have an abortion if contraceptives fail or are not used correctly?

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 ---Jed on 3/14/12
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Rhonda, I posted all possible choices for any couple that is not desiring a baby, married or unmarried. I am in no way suggesting that fornication is okay, nor abortion. Obviously if you are unmarried your choice should be A. If you are married your choice should be B. The choice should never be C.
---Jed on 3/25/12


Rhonda, nobody is suggesting abstinence for married couples. Obviously you shouldn't even be getting married if you're not ready to have a baby. Since babies are the natural result of marriage.
---Jed on 3/21/12
******

hmmmm well choice "A" is to remain abstinent

Are you suggesting this questions is posed to unmarried "couples"??

not sure how one could possibly profess "christianity" while practicing fornication
---Rhonda on 3/21/12


Jed:

What about married couples that have enough children already? What are their options?

1) Keep popping out children beyond their ability to support them
2) Abstinence
3) Birth control
4) Being very, very careful (i.e. The Rhythm Method).

When you eliminate birth control as a permissible option, you leave them a choice between poverty, celibacy, or Russian Roulette.
---StrongAxe on 3/21/12


Rhonda, nobody is suggesting abstinence for married couples. Obviously you shouldn't even be getting married if you're not ready to have a baby. Since babies are the natural result of marriage.
---Jed on 3/21/12


Remaining abstinent is a cruel sadistic punishment for a married couple to play with

ONLY ignorant "religions" teach married couples to practice abstinence

it's purpose is always INTENDING for one of them to fall short in their marriage, stray, and eventually seek out someone they can have a physical relationship with

marriage was not JUST created to have children seeing there are many childless couples who could never conceive

contraceptives when used correctly rarely fail however one could always give their baby up for adoption to a childless couple

abortion is another name for MURDER
---Rhonda on 3/20/12




\\Every Church that I have attended\\

That's what you get for not going to an Orthodox Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/20/12


StrongAxe, it seems for once I actually agree with your last statement 100%. Haha, who knew we'd actually find some common ground. LOL.

Saq, You're absolutely right. Churches don't preach on moral living anymore. It's sad. It just shows that they are in it for the attendence records and money, not to really make a diference in people's lives. After much searching, I found a small church in my area that preaches the truth about how to live right. I think it's no coincidence that it turned out to be a small church. Noone want to hear the truth anymore.
---Jed on 3/20/12


Sag:

Yes. Unfortunately, many Christians embrace the freedom that our sins will be forgiven, without accepting the responsibility that regardless, our sins have bad consequences that should be avoided.

It's very much like rich kids who flaunt traffic laws, because they know Daddy will pay for their tickets.

Jesus accepted our sins with the nails in his hands. If people realized that every sin was like hitting the nails with a hammer again and again, they would hopefully learn to be less likely to continue to do so irresponsibly.
---StrongAxe on 3/19/12



Jed, Cluny, StrongAxe, Others:

Great Dialogue, Everyone!

Discussing the Pro's, and Con's, of Living, Having Babies, Where & When, etc.

I just wish that these things were discussed in Churches. By the Leadership. People need to hear the TRUTH!

Every Church that I have attended -- Catholic, Protestant, Independent -- has been completely SILENT about "Living Life GOD's Way".

Many of the Problems around us could be solved if only people would follow GOD and HIS ways instead. HE sent his son Jesus Christ to teach us about that.

Please pray about this!
---Sag on 3/19/12


Saq, Very well said.
---Jed on 3/19/12




True christians are responsible.
---Jed on 3/19/12

I believe that GOD's "Rules For Living" can be summed up in THREE simple statements:

(1) Try and follow GOD's ways -- mentioned in the Bible -- in EVERY part of your life: Sex, Finances, Relationships & Family, etc.
(2) If you: Sin, Fail, Fall Short, etc. That's OK. Problems happen in this Imperfect, Sinful, World. Time to consider (3). It's for YOUR own good!
(3) REPENT, and TURN AWAY from your wayward ways. Turn your life over to GOD. Live according to HIS rules.

Most people seem to get stuck at (2) and just remain there. I would call that IRRESPONSIBLE living.

It's our own choice to live RESPONSIBLY.
---Sag on 3/19/12


StrongAxe, yes I am as vocal about people completing high school and getting a job as I am about people waiting for marriage to have babies. Even more so. I am a vocal advocate for people taking personal responsibility for their own lives, in EVERY aspect of their lives. Secondly, yes, I am aposed to people having babies outside of wed-lock, even if it had nothing to do with their likelyhood of being on welfare, because it's irresponsible and it's against God's design. Thirdly, I can't speak for the 50% of people who CLAIM to be christians who get divorced. I am married and have never been divorced and am completely against it, so those are MY family values. Divorce also shows a lack of responsibility. True christians are responsible.
---Jed on 3/19/12


Sag,nowhere in the stats you listed does it say that 80% of the children born are born out of wedlock..

The answer the question is simple..

Total number of births to women who are single.

Nothing more, nothing less.
---NurseRobert on 3/19/12


\\52% of Extra-Marital, or Love, children. The same situation that Ishmael was born into. Look how the Middle East has turned out!\\

Try again.

Ishamel's birth was the result of a surrogate mother arrangement, not a mere affair.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/19/12


Where did you get your statistics that most US children are born out of wedlock?
---StrongAxe on 3/18/12

My source was a Catholic Global News Paper. I would list the Internet link, but that is against ChristiaNet rules.

In the USA, for the year 2008:

85% of births to teenagers were to unmarried women.

52% of Extra-Marital, or Love, children. The same situation that Ishmael was born into. Look how the Middle East has turned out!

61% of babies born to unmarried women in their early 20's.

Minority women, of all ages, had over 75% of out-of-wedlock births.

Many of these familes will end up living in poverty.

---Sag on 3/19/12


Jed:

Are you equally vocal about people completing high school and/or getting a job as you are about them not having children out of wedlock? If you are not, your whole success argument would be specious, because it would mean you were really concerned about the illegitimacy issue, using the success angle as an excuse, rather than about the success issue itself.

In a similar vein, Christians are typically the most vocal about "family values" - yet the one law that would keep families together would be to outlaw divorce. Yet few people advocate that. Also, divorce among Christians is in the 50% range, the same as among non-Christians. So where are these family values that are spokem of so loudly?
---StrongAxe on 3/19/12


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So I see that neither sag nor Jed can answer my question about what in God's eyes distinguishes concubinage from marriage.

Can anyone do this? Please give book, chapter, and verse in your answer.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/19/12


I was challenging the assertion that the marital status of the parents was the determining factor of whether their children were a burden to society or not. -StrongAxe

We know that's what you were doing, but you are wrong. It does make a difference. Parents with illigitimate children are far more likely to be on welfare than those born in wed-lock. Statistics show that 98% of people who can accomplish 3 things in life will be successful. 1: Earn highschool diploma or GED, 2: Work a job, 3: Get married before having children. Those things are not that hard to do. But if you leave out one of those things your chances of success are slim and your chances of welfare are much higher.
---Jed on 3/19/12


Sag:

I was not commenting on the appropriateness of having children out of wedlock. I was challenging the assertion that the marital status of the parents was the determining factor of whether their children were a burden to society or not.

Where did you get your statistics that most US children are born out of wedlock? I just found a report from 2007 that said 4 out of 10 were (far from most, this is not even half). I have read that more than half of births TO WOMEN UNDER 30 are out of wedlock.
---StrongAxe on 3/18/12


Cluny, you don't know the difference between being married and shacking-up? I knew what shacking-up was when I was like 6 years old.
---Jed on 3/18/12


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And what are God's criteria for what separates true marriage from simply living together?
---Cluny on 3/18/12

Hopefully, Jed won't get too upset that I "Jumped The Gun" and answered the question for him.

Silly Goose! Cluny, I think that you already KNOW the answer here.

"True Marriage" is GOD ordained.

A Man, and Woman, just "Living Together", unmarried, is SIN.

Very Popular, but SINFUL, none-the-less!

The answer to your question is: "Whatever Is Not From GOD is Sinful".
---Sag on 3/18/12


\\StrongAxe, God's criteria for having intercourse and children is marriage.\\

And what are God's criteria for what separates true marriage from simply living together?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/18/12


God's criteria for having intercourse and children is marriage. I didn't establish that, God did. I agree that it is wrong for married couples to live off the government instead of providing for their own children, just as it is wrong for unmarried couples to do that. But typically, unmarried parents are far more likely to be on welfare than married couples. That should come as no surprise since being married before you have children shows a much higher level of responsibility than having children before marriage. And being on welfare is a direct result of a low level of responsibility.
---Jed on 3/17/12

You hit the nail on the head!

Someone like yourself needs to become President. Preach the TRUTH!
---Sag on 3/18/12


Jed:

My answer to your blog question is:

A: Remain abstinent

-- OR --

B: Use contraceptives but understand that they may fail and prepare to have a child if they do

-- NEVER --

C: Abortion is MURDER!
---Sag on 3/18/12


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StrongAxe, God's criteria for having intercourse and children is marriage. I didn't establish that, God did. I agree that it is wrong for married couples to live off the government instead of providing for their own children, just as it is wrong for unmarried couples to do that. But typically, unmarried parents are far more likely to be on welfare than married couples. That should come as no surprise since being married before you have children shows a much higher level of responsibility than having children before marriage. And being on welfare is a direct result of a low level of responsibility.
---Jed on 3/17/12


Jed:

Unmarried but committed couples having a child and raising it and supporting it are not a burden to society.

Married couples who churn out babies like biscuits just to earn more welfare money ARE a burden to society, as are those who have no such agenda, but just have kids without counting the cost beforehand.

So the criterion here is NOT whether they're married or not, but whether they are responsible or not.
---StrongAxe on 3/17/12


When a husband and wife are not ready for a baby, then abstaining from intercourse is 100% effective.
---Eloy on 3/17/12


Cluny, Scripture tells us that all who are not of the promise seed are of Ishmael. For there is only two seeds.
"It is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, But he of the free woman was by promise." (Gal. 4:22,23).
We have to ask the question, how were we converted? Was it by ourselves, by the persuasion of men, by carnal excitement, or was it by the operation of the Spirit of God? If we confess to be born again where did that new birth come from? Did it come from God in consequence of His eternal purpose and promise, or did it come out of ourselves? Was it our nature trying to do better? Is so, then we are Ishmael.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/12


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Babies born out of wed-lock are not a burden to society, their irresponsible parents are. Irresponsible people are always a burden to society. It's not the children's fault. The parents need to take responsibility and provide for their own kids.
---Jed on 3/16/12

You said it very well.

Thanks for correcting me. I needed that!
---Sag on 3/16/12


Saq, StrongAxe, Babies born out of wed-lock are not a burden to society, their irresponsible parents are. Irresponsible people are always a burden to society. It's not the children's fault. The parents need to take responsibility and provide for their own kids.
---Jed on 3/16/12


\\Ishmael -- the resulting baby of an affair between Abraham and Hagar -- is the father of the violent Middle East. Probably Iran too.\\

More Arabs than you realize are Christian, and have been so since the time of the Apostles.

Persians are not descended from Ishmael.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/16/12


Sag:

Taxpayers are ALSO on the hook for raising legitimate babies - unfortunate families who are on unemployment, welfare, food stamps, etc.

This isn't a matter of wed/unwed or legitimate/illegitimate. It's a matter of making a commitment to have and raise a child, and being able to do it or not - and that applies to anyone who has a child, whether wed or not.

People who can't afford to have children shouldn't have them - otherwise, they glean a benefit for themselves (progeny) while forcing everyone else to pay the bill. Even nature tells us this is not appropriate (e.g. animals with insufficient food and safety have fewer young, if any at all, plants with insufficient nutrients don't produce flowers and fruits, etc.)
---StrongAxe on 3/16/12


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StrongAxe:

Search the web for Dan Quayle's "Murphy Brown Speech". Even single mothers who once criticized that speech eventually realized that Dan Quayle was correct.

GOD designed the family as the ultimate environment for raising children. TWO parents who were faithfully committed to each other.

Today, in the USA, the MAJORITY of babies are born Out-of-Wedlock.

Often, taxpayers end up footing the bill for raising these "Illegitimate" babies: Health Care, Welfare, etc. An expensive process. Ask any parent what it actually costs to raise a child.

These kids are more likely to become Criminals, and/or, repeat the SINs of their parents. Further increasing costs to the taxpayers.
---Sag on 3/16/12


Sag:

Genesis 16:3
"And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife."

Note the word "wife". No affair here. The problem here was NOT that Ishmael was "illegitimate", but rather that Abraham and Sarah did not wait for the promise. Absalom was totally legitimate, and look how well HE turned out.

You said children born out of wedlock are a "burden to EVERYONE". How so? How is a child born to an unmarried couple more of a burden than one born to a married couple? How is a child born to a single unwed mother more of a burden than one being raised by a widow?
---StrongAxe on 3/16/12


If you are not ready to have a baby, this can mean you do not know how to love. So, I would get with God so I can love. There are plenty of things in our lives that we are not ready for, but these are in God's plan for us. So, if you are not ready for God's plan, we need how God corrects us and prepares us. If God is our Father, it is His choice, isn't it?

If I know He does not want me to have a baby . . . I would say He has me abstain, and He will give me grace for self-control. I have been informed that birth control chemicals can have hormone effects that can mess a woman up. And trying to control can have us in a controlling spirit witch keeps us from submitting to God and His sufficient grace.
---willie_c: on 3/16/12


Jed...I don't believe God's purpose for marriage is to make babies. What about couples who cannot have children?
---KarenD on 3/15/12


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The circumstances of the conception do not vitiate the blessing.
---Cluny on 3/15/12

I was really CONVICTED when I read this!

There are times when GOD knows that even Iron-Clad Catholics, like me, need to be reminded of things.

GOD knows how much I've complained -- in my head -- about babies conceived, and/or, born out-of-wedlock. Expensive and a Burden for EVERYONE.

Ishmael -- the resulting baby of an affair between Abraham and Hagar -- is the father of the violent Middle East. Probably Iran too.

I have yet to "Understand" just what the "Blessing" is with Ishmael's descendants. I think that it's more of a "Curse".
---Sag on 3/15/12


\\it prevents a pregnancy from occurring if pregnancy has occurred it is has no effect on the pregnancy. \\

Duh.

What does this mean in English?

Writing clearly means thinking clearly.

\\And then I would recommend an abortion caring an unwanted pregnancy to full term is the ultimate sin.\\

Pregnancy and childbirth are NOWHERE described in the Bible as sin.

GOD wanted the child conceived. Did you stop to think of that? The Bible says that GOD opens and closes the womb. The Bible says that children are a BLESSING from the Lord. The circumstances of the conception do not vitiate the blessing.

Besides, there are couples longing to adopt babies who cannot find one.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/15/12


If I knew then, what I know now!
I would have just shot myself in the head.
Much less painful!

I am just kidding!
Maybe the time is not right for having a child. You are the only judge of this.
But I tell you. Holding a child in your arms is like no other thing on earth.
Picking them up for the first time or when they look at you for the first time.
But, there is only one way you can know these things!
So, A, B or C wont help!
So go with D for Daddy!
Peace

Ps. when they become around two years old, trade them in for a dog.
Yes, Im just kidding again! But, Im a masochist
---TheSeg on 3/15/12


KarenD, No. I am married with two wonderful kids already and would love to have another in the future. I agree that abortion is selfish and wrong. I asked this question in response to a discussion on another blog about abortion. Some people were saying that abortion was an acceptable option if the parents weren't ready to have a baby. I suggested that if someone couldn't handle having a baby, they shouldn't be having intercourse. I was met with much argument for suggesting that and they said that wasn't fair to married people. But the way I see it, if you aren't mature enough to take care of a baby, then you aren't mature enough for a marriage either. God's purpose for a marriage is for people to raise a family with children.
---Jed on 3/15/12


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If not married then choice "A". IF married & not ready then choice "b". Abortion is against Gods wishes,abortion is murder.
---candice on 3/15/12


I would recommend an abortion caring an unwanted pregnancy to full term is the ultimate sin. The only thing of consequence is what happens to a child after it is born, but the right damnable Right to Lifers could care less about that.
---Blogger9211 on 3/15/12

What an ignorant statement!
---Jed on 3/15/12


Cluny Plan is not an abortifacient, it prevents a pregnancy from occurring if pregnancy has occurred it is has no effect on the pregnancy. And then I would recommend an abortion caring an unwanted pregnancy to full term is the ultimate sin. The only thing of consequence is what happens to a child after it is born, but the right damnable Right to Lifers could care less about that.
---Blogger9211 on 3/15/12


Abortion??? Such a stupid decision to kill a baby. Selfish people do that. Is it you that doesn't want a baby, Jed????
---KarenD on 3/15/12


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Wivv, I absolutley agree. Abstinence is the only way to have a non-pregnancy guarantee. But of course abstinence is not realistic for married couples. In fact, married couple should be having intercourse, and lots of it. But if your married you need to realize that you may have a baby. If that is really not an option for you, then marriage and intercourse probably aren't for you. After all, God designed marriages and intercourse for raising families with children, not for pleasure and intimacy alone, although that is part of it. This is God's will for most of us, unless he has called us for something different. BTW, the "plan B" pill terminates/aborts a life just like surgical abortion does.
---Jed on 3/15/12


do not forget adoption. there are many people who are good parents and God has not allowed them to be blessed with biological children.
---Scott1 on 3/15/12


The recreational drug sold as Plan B is abortifacient.

Anyone who would kill unborn babies would eat feces with toasted coconut sprinkled on it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/15/12


The only form of birth control that is 100% effective is abstinence, but this is not realistic for a married couple. Your best solution is your step "B". Advice: if you have been married more than 2 years & plan on having babies in the future, it's best not to wait to have a baby because the older the wife becomes, the less fertile she may be. (I'm not being "sexist" here, just medically accurate - ask any OB doctor.)
---wivv on 3/15/12


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So Blogger, There is no contraception that is 100% effective. Especially since many people on it don't use it consistently or correctly. But even when you do, there is no contraception that is fully guaranteed to prevent pregnancy. With that given, there is only the three options listed above. So I guess your choice would be to continue to have intercourse and ignore the fact that it might happen? Then what? Just have an abortion if it does or take responsibility and raise the kid? Don't you think people need to have some sort of back-up plan?
---Jed on 3/15/12


Why limit your options there are various types of contraception for male and female and if there is a failure a pharmaceutical called Plan B which you should just buy in moderate supply and keep on premise. Check with your physician about an IUD they have high reliability minimum failure rate and a tolerable side effects.
---Blogger9211 on 3/15/12


So if you really can't take care of a baby, which would you suggest? Abstinence, or continue having intercourse anyways and just get an abortion if you get pregnant?
---Jed on 3/14/12


The only sure way not to get pregnant is to remain abstinent. Birth control is the main option and I know only a couple of people who have gotten pregnant when they used birth control reguarly.
---KarenD on 3/14/12


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