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Is Salvation Wholly Of God

Is our salvation wholly of God or must we cooperate through our own efforts?

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 ---lee1538 on 3/16/12
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1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
---TheSeg on 3/20/12


Before you can say, "Lord, Lord" I want you to come into my life" you must be born of God for Him to hear you.
---Mark_V. on 3/19/12


Unfortunately for you thats not written anywhere in scripture.

Where do you come up with such nonsense?
---JackB on 3/19/12


Kathr, how many words does God have to speak before you believe Him? That is the real question. I say, until you have have been born again and receive faith. Then you will believe the Word of God when He is speaking to you. Unbelievers do not have a relationship with God. "Now we know that God does not hear sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him." ( John 9:31).
You have to be born of the Spirit so that God can hear you. He is holy and pure and you are fill with sin. That is the condition of the lost. Before you can say, "Lord, Lord" I want you to come into my life" you must be born of God for Him to hear you.
---Mark_V. on 3/19/12


Good catch, Kathr.

Its simply amazing how many Old Testament stories paint a perfect picture of the New Covenant in Christ.
---JackB on 3/19/12


Ruth is a perfect example of one who of her own free will said to Naomi, " Where ever you go I will go, and YOUR God will be MY God." Now the other daughter-in-law chose to go back and continue to worship her own gods.

Ruth is also a TYPE of Gentile as Boaz is a TYPE of Christ/Kingsman/REDEEMER.

Anyone ever read Ruth? See where Boaz askes...WHO IS THIS DAMSEL? Obviously no foreknowledge here.

How many pictures DOES God have to paint before it comes clear Ruth CHOSE/not forced/ or was even presuaded by Naomi to join Israel and go with her.
---kathr4453 on 3/19/12




James L, God did not convinced me, He changed my heart, opened my eyes and ears. It was all of God. Once my heart was changed towards Christ, I could now love Him. I love Him because He first loved me. He did not appear to me and convince me to believe, all He did was change my heart. Under the Old and New Covenant Salvation is alway by the grace of God through faith.
No one has ever been able to save himself by his own works or as you say, his own free will, for no body has been able to keep the whole law other then Christ Jesus. If you are not saved by God already, you are already condemned.
---Mark_V. on 3/19/12


\\I can assure you I never ever claimed "I was an elect".\\---christan on 3/18/12

That's because your Calvinist doctrine offers no assurance that you are "elect" unless you endure in good works. What a works monger.

//He made me willing//---MarkV

\\that means God CONVINCED you\\---JackB

A M E N ! ! ! ---James_L on 3/19/12

AND AMEN!
---blogger8980 on 3/19/12


\\Cluny, have I ever said I was an elect other than to speak that God has elected as declared in the Holy Bible? Feel free to check with the moderators my passed blogs and I can assure you I never ever claimed "I was an elect.\\

Then why have you not worried about whether or not you are?

The journals of Calvinists have historically been full of this concern.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/19/12


Romans 1:18-32 gives every evidence that God has revealed Himself to man through the creation and the conscience: That which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath showed it unto them: but man made the choice to reject that revelation (vv.21,25,28)and God gave them up to their own foolishness. No man will ever be able to say of God that He left him out of the revelation of Himself. God is blameless. To say likewise is to reject Romans 1 as inspired Word regarding God's desire for all men to know Him.
---blogger8980 on 3/19/12


James_L, you've no clue of what's a works monger to begin with. Theologians will laugh at your very understanding that a Calvinist is a works monger.

You're such a bitter and angry soul at the mere mention that God has already elected His people from eternity. You hate that He knows who are those He has written in the Book of Life. These (aka the elect) He gave to His Son, who confirmed, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

If you can't even "accept" these sayings by the Lord, how can you even choose to "accept" Him?
---christan on 3/19/12




Leon, understand a reprobate? "a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation." You're a "Christian" and you don't believe God?

"Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them." Jeremiah 6:30, "God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" Romans 1:28

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" Romans 9:21

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith, prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Corinthians 13:5
---christan on 3/19/12


\\I can assure you I never ever claimed "I was an elect".\\
---christan on 3/18/12

That's because your Calvinist doctrine offers no assurance that you are "elect" unless you endure in good works. What a works monger.


//He made me willing//
---MarkV

\\that means God CONVINCED you\\
---JackB

A M E N ! ! !
---James_L on 3/19/12


"Are you suggesting that everyone who died before Jesus died is eternally damned?" James_L

That's your suggestion, not mine. Simply you do not believe the OT saints were saved like all saints, be it OT or NT. Elected by God, born of the Spirit, justified by Faith.

"Or do you have any scriptural evidence do you have that anyone was born again in the Old Testament?"

Romans & Galatians 3 & 4 - OT saint Abraham was the classic example used by Paul. Hebrews 11. Bottomline, you cannot receive Faith without being elected and born of the Spirit. "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
---christan on 3/19/12


Most of you fight for your rights no matter what God has to say. Under the New Covenant, "God" not yourselves, changes your heart. "A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you, and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statues and be careful to observe My ordianances." He doesn't ask permission whether you will let Him. He knows the heart you have while lost, you will never seek God (Rom. 3:11) "There is none who understands, There is none who seeks after God"
Why do you people fight against God?
---Mark_V. on 3/19/12


TRUE Christian will always be reminded that salvation is indeed 100% of God's grace.
---christan on 3/18/12


Who has said its not 100% Gods grace? Our faith means nothing if its not in Gods grace.
---JackB on 3/18/12


What I see here is many people from different denominations all having faith in Jesus Christ. None of them deny He is God in the flesh. None of them deny his crucifixion and resurrection on our behalf.

Why then are we judged according to whether or not we believe in predestination?

Did Jesus say we must believe in Him AND election to belief in him to be saved?
---Blogger9680 on 3/18/12


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He didn't force me, He made me willing---MarkV

James_L would say that means God CONVINCED you and I would agree with him.
---JackB on 3/18/12


You know I once started crying, when I thought to myself.
At lease I know, God has one son, who he is pleased with.
I remember crying so hard, wow even now.
I became so happy, that for a time I didn't care, if I went to heaven or hell.
Simply because I knew God was pleased! I feel like crying right now.
And it's all because of a man call Jesus Christ. Now weird is that!

You know I dont always say it, but thank you Lord!
I think we all thank you Lord.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/18/12


"...You were forced to accept Christ?? Why doesn't He MAKE everyone willing?... Why would you think you are so special, that He would force you to accept Him?..."
---michael_e on 3/18/12


Mike: Some bloggers just don't get it! God loves everyone (the world). Jesus came so "whosoever" (of a FREE WILL) "CHOOSES" to believe Him won't perish. (Jn. 3:14-21) God didn't pre-SELECT some to be saved & others to perish. That's absurdly unbiblical & maligns the character of just & holy God. Faith comes by hearing & choosing to believe God's Word. Scripture plainly says God already knows "whosoever" WILL "CHOOSE" to accept or reject Him. That's predestination!
---Leon on 3/18/12


"And where did you get the idea that you were among the elect, christan?"

Cluny, have I ever said I was an elect other than to speak that God has elected as declared in the Holy Bible? Feel free to check with the moderators my passed blogs and I can assure you I never ever claimed "I was an elect".

If you really love 'free-will' and hate the idea that God has elected, then just come forth and say you hate the concept of election.

"But let your communication be, Yea, yea, Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

As for me, I have NO PROBLEMS with God electing, in fact He's glorified 100% in Election by Grace, which is how He should be worshipped.
---christan on 3/18/12


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There's some here who are so angry with God that He chose some sinners to salvation and left out multitudes through Sovereign Election by Grace.

For example, they accuse some Christians will "excuse their sin and disobedience after salvation", which a TRUE Christian never does because they believe repentance is unto death.

And they mock God saying, " if God is so all powerful that YOU have no free will, WHY then do you sin after salvation". They cannot understand the flesh is cursed and God's never going to save the flesh but He will save the soul and spirit, which the TRUE Christian will always be reminded that salvation is indeed 100% of God's grace.
---christan on 3/18/12


What I find interesting is: AFTER we are saved, does God FORCE you to obey, or make you so willing to obey that you obey 100% of teh time,...which would lead to sinless perfection..right?

But a calvinist will excuse their sin and disobedience after salvation....yet claim God forced them ot OBEY the Gospel, or made them willing to obey the Gospel leaqding to salvation.

My Question, if God is so all powerful that YOU have no free will, WHY then do you sin after salvation???

Is God doubleminded? SAnctification is not important to God? I believe it is....
---kathr4453 on 3/18/12


Mark, your saying he made you willing.
And Michael your saying he force you.

So can someone explain whats the difference is.
If he made you willing to accept him and you did.
Or he forces you to accept him and you did.
In both cases, arent you both saying and I accepted God?

To me its more like a kid who was kidnapped at a young age.
Then when he sees his parents for the first time, he doesnt know them.
But they were always your parents.

So, you werent made willing or force to accept neither of them, nor they you.
You kind-of just know! I mean if God is your father does he have to do anything?
Other than call you?
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/18/12


JackB, thanks for the acknowledgement. As Scripture does say God created in 6 days (a number of times) we should beleive it. I am sure we do not have the right to pick and chose what we will believe.
---Warwick on 3/18/12


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Mark, you said
First, He didn't force me, He made me willing. What is the difference in forcing you to accept Him and making you accept Him?

God is above all. Yet, the consequences of Calvinistic teaching have led some to believe God manipulates all eliminating your choice to do anything.

We make our own choices everyday, and everyday people reject or trust in God.
---michael_e on 3/18/12


\\Your love for "free-will" really makes you hate God when He declares He has chosen, doesn't it? For the elect, he rejoices that God is indeed love, gracious and merciful as declared.\\

And where did you get the idea that you were among the elect, christan?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/18/12


\\one can only acknowledge his inability only after being born of the Spirit and not before.\\
---christan on 3/18/12

Are you suggesting that everyone who died before Jesus died is eternally damned?

Or do you have any scriptural evidence do you have that anyone was born again in the Old Testament?


Why is it that OT saints went to Hades, yet after Christ's resurrection, to be absent from the body if to be present with the Lord?

It would be nice if people would ponder the implications of an unbibilical doctrine before espousing it
---James_L on 3/18/12


Michael e, you say,

"Why doesn't He MAKE everyone willing? We know He could.
Why would you think you are so special, that He would force you to accept Him? You apparently need a proof reader before you post."


First, He didn't force me, He made me willing. He doesn't make everyone willing. I know by His Word. Why? you have to ask Him.
Second, I think all believers are special because He chose us, and gave us spiritual life, I thought He chose you and gave you spiritual life too, but I guess you don't believe by the answers you give, you rather believe you chose Him out of your own free will. Pad yourself on the back for been willing and kind to chose Him as your Father. His lucky you made that choice.
---Mark_V. on 3/18/12


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You were forced to accept Christ too??
---michael_e on 3/18/12


"You were forced to accept Christ??" michael_e

Your love for "free-will" really makes you hate God when He declares He has chosen, doesn't it? For the elect, he rejoices that God is indeed love, gracious and merciful as declared. It's a "weight off his chest" that salvation is 100% grace. That's why he willingly goes to Christ after regeneration and by faith will repent to God.

"Why doesn't He MAKE everyone willing? We know He could."

"Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did He in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places." Psalm 135:6, "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid." Romans 9:14
---christan on 3/18/12


As usual, MarkV, you didn't read the whole post completely. That appears to be such a common occurrence that it is impossible to believe it is coincidence. Same with Christian.
---blogger8980 on 3/18/12


// Mark you said
//Yes, I was lost. And I was made willing through the New birth. If God had not changed my heart, I would still be condemned//
You were forced to accept Christ??
Why doesn't He MAKE everyone willing? We know He could.
Why would you think you are so special, that He would force you to accept Him? You apparently need a proof reader before you post.
---michael_e on 3/18/12


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"If one can acknowledge his need and it not be a work, then one can by choice believe and it not be a work." blogger8980

Ah, but one can only acknowledge his inability only after being born of the Spirit and not before.

I never said that the act of "acknowledging" was by "free-will", did I? You only assumed. Just like many assume that John 3:16 says God wants to save everyone. And where Scripture says "whosoever" doesn't mean "anyone" can go to Christ by their "free-will". You'll be hard press to find of such a teaching.

You see, assuming without confirming Scripture with Scripture makes a fool of you and your "free-will" doctrine, not God.
---christan on 3/18/12


Blogger89, you speak as someone lost, saying

".. scriptures you quote to prove your exclusive election are the very ones that condemn you."

Election by God saves sinners from the condemnation of the Law. You say,
" It was His counsel and He gets what He wants no matter what. Okay, let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that's true." there is no doubt, it's Truth, you just don't believe God.
The reason you imply it's not true. God Word says "for He worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:11) and sinner you say He doesn't. "For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things, to whom be glory forever, Amen" (Rom. 11:36).
---Mark_V. on 3/18/12


lee, After you get saved, then you will bless with your words and not blaspheme.
---Eloy on 3/18/12


Well that a good point Warwick. I suppose if it says 6 days then it is six days indeed.
---JackB on 3/18/12


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In Mat_5:29-30 Christ said cut it from you.
In Mat_6:25 he said take no thought for your life.

In 1Co_12 it talks about well, spiritual things.
It talks about gifts but more, how it is one spirit.
How the manifestation of the Spirit is given to profit all.
He talks about how there is one body and its many members.
But, it is one body and so is Christ.

Talks about how we are all baptized into one body, by that spirit.
Whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free.
It talks about that eye you pluck out and even that hand you cut off.

Because you cant see the body, does that mean there is no body?!
1Co 12:31! Peace!
---TheSeg on 3/18/12


---Total Depravity is proven to be theologically true by other scriptures.

Lee, my post had nothing to do with PROVING total depravity. It had to with one ACKNOWLEDGING that depravity. Acknowledging it would be as much a work as believing the gospel. You threw out a ton of Scriptures to prove depravity as if someone could read those and be convinced of it. Those same people could read that God raised Jesus from the dead in that same Bible and believe it because faith comes by hearing and hearing itself by the Word of God, not some arbitrary exclusive decision on God's part to not save. God doesn't just love a select few. He loves all. He IS love.
---blogger8980 on 3/18/12


The very scriptures you quote to prove your exclusive election are the very ones that condemn you. How? Well, you say that first of all God exclusively selected you and you had no choice. It was His counsel and He gets what He wants no matter what. Okay, let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that's true. Once your selection is made known and you SIN, does that mean God predetermined you we're going to? Be careful how you answer that lest you make God the author of your temptation, your lust, and your stupid unwise choice to give into it. If I didn't know anything else, I know God hates sin. Look at what His judgment and wrath did to Jesus, who became sin and the curse.
---blogger8980 on 3/18/12


Michael, here is what you do with the word of God,

"You search the Scriptures, "for in them you think you have eternal life," and these (the Scriptures) are they which testify of Me. "But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have Life" (John 5:39,40).

Yes, I was lost. And I was made willing through the New birth. If God had not changed my heart, I would still be condemned.
(2 Cor. 5:14) he said "One died for all, then all died" This means that everyone who died in Christ receives the benefits of His substitutionary death (Rom. 3:24-26: 6:8). And not "all" died in Christ.
You try to find passages that will speak on your behalf to find eternal life.
---Mark_V. on 3/18/12


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//The lost need to be made willing.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/12//
Were you ever lost?
When were you made willing?
2 Cor. 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us, because we thus judge, that if one died for ALL, then were all dead:15 And that he died for ALL, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Christ died and rose again (the gospel 1Cor.15:1-4) You can accept it and be saved or reject it and stay lost
---michael_e on 3/17/12


JackB, you avoid my comments.

God says "It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'" Exodus 31:17. However you say we cannot know how long these days are! But to whom does God write? To man who lives 24hr days. God being eternal does not live in days of any length. If He did He would cease to be eternal. When God writes "under the heavens" who is under the heavens, God or Man? Man is. Scripture is written to us, in our terms.

But you write about other parts of Scripture which could be interpreted very differently (by a Sceptic) taking them as absolute truth! Isn't this hypocrisy?
---Warwick on 3/17/12


You say that Christ "who gave himself a ransom for ALL---MarkV

No that wasn't me. That was the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul in scripture.

Once again, your argument isnt with me - it's with God.

False beliefs start with reasoning out things that we cannot understand instead of just trusting what we read as truth. If you take scriptures exactly how they are written, you can avoid confusion.

Not one single version of the Bible words Eph 2:8,9 in such a way that it says FAITH is the gift of God. Not one, Mark!

Salvation through our blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who IS our life is the gift! That is Gods grace. That is what saves us. Do you trust in that or predestination?
---JackB on 3/17/12


Blogger9680 //Total Depravity is easily proven a lie with these passages.
---
Total Depravity is proven to be theologically true by other scriptures.

Scriptural Support for Total Depravity:

Genesis 6:5, 8:21, Numbers 15:37-39, 1 Kings 8:46, Job 15:14-16, Psalm 14:1-3, 51:5, 94:11, 130:3, Proverbs 4:23, 20:9, Ecclesiastes 7:20, 8:11, Isaiah 6:5, 53:6, 64:6, Jeremiah 10:14, 13:23, 17:9, Matthew 7:11, 15:19, Mark 10:18, Luke 17:10, John 2:24, 3:36, 6:44, 15:5, 16, Acts 3:16, 16:14, Romans 1:18-2:16, 3:9-20, 23, 5:12, 7:18-20, 8:7, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 12:3, 2 Corinthians 3:5, 4:3, 11:3, Ephesians 2:1-6, 4:17-19, Colossians 2:13, 1 Timothy 2:25, 6:5, 2 Timothy 3:8, Titus 1:5, James 2:10, 3:2, 8, Revelation 9:20, 16:9.
---lee1538 on 3/17/12


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On the contrary, "God will only help those who acknowledge they are totally incapable of 'saving themselves'- believing what Christ declared about salvation, "with men this is impossible". ---christan on 3/17/12

Wouldn't just the simple act of acknowledging ones inability to save self be as much a work as believing on the Lord Jesus Christ? If one can acknowledge his need and it not be a work, then one can by choice believe and it not be a work.
---blogger8980 on 3/17/12


Eloy - Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

Yes, you may be justified by the law if you are a doer of ALL the law All the time as then there be no basis on which you may be condemned.

But you need consider -

Romans 3:19-20 Now we know what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Hopefully you will by the law see your own ugly sinfulness and learn that the righteous must live by faith.(1:17)
---lee1538 on 3/17/12


So, "God help those who help themselves", right? Is this how God saves His people? If a man can help himself (aka 'free-will'), there would not have been any need for Jesus Christ to come and die at Calvary.

Based on the assumption that "they can help themselves", why do they need Christ, since they can choose between life and death? That's what the other religions of the world teaches. What's unforgivable is those calling themselves christians, practicing this same 'philosophy'.

On the contrary, "God will only help those who acknowledge they are totally incapable of 'saving themselves'- believing what Christ declared about salvation, "with men this is impossible".
---christan on 3/17/12


Since when being 'elected' by God meanS He has "force his salvation onto anyone"? Being 'elected by God for salvation' is a demonstration of His unconditional love for the 'elect' - regardless of what the sinner has done wrong in his life - that's why it's unconditional as taught by Paul in Romans 9:11. Which is also grace.

This is how Paul eloquently puts it "And hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." Romans 5:5,6 - this is God's love acting out in "for by grace you have been saved".
---christan on 3/17/12


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Willie_c, Jesus said it was impossible for men to save themselves. He never said that we couldnt choose to do the right thing. As an unbeliever I never committed murder, but believe me I was tempted!

A just God of love could never condemn someone for something they are born incapable of. Would you condemn a legless man to prison for the rest of his life because he cant run a marathon?

We still have a conscience (Romans 2:15) and because of that man is able to choose to do the things which God asks of him! Its scriptural. Total Depravity is easily proven a lie with these passages.

Our ability to follow the law (Deut 30:11-20)
Our ability to show faith in Christ (Romans 10:5-13)
---Blogger9680 on 3/17/12


lee, As I have preached to you many times before: the do nothings, get nothings. Only the Doers are saved, the NonDoers remain condemned. And your disagreemnt with the truth matters not, for the truth stands, which is that only they whom repent are born-again and saveed, and all else whom refuse to obey God's commandments remain condemned. So your disagreement is with The Truth, and with reality, and with our manifested new life, and with the word of the Lord God Jesus Christ.
---Eloy on 3/17/12


Eloy //You must cooperate, you must participate, for Jesus does not force his salvation onto anyone: you can either choose him, or else reject him.

While we can agree that God in general does not force himself on anyone (thro He may have done that with Paul on the Damascus Road), our cooperation with God as to our salvation would make us a co-savior with Him, that our works are essential to our salvation. I can only disagree. Works of the law cannot justify us. Romans 3,20.
---lee1538 on 3/17/12


How does mankind who's declared by God, "dead in sins and trespasses" seek for the things of the Spirit? To be able to seek after God, you have to be righteous. What does Scripture say?

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:10,11 - without exception, God declares there's "NONE"! Yet we hear from some deluded souls that they can outside of the grace of God seek for salvation on their own.

When Christ was asked, "who then can be saved?", His reply "with men this is impossible". They rob God of His glory in His work of salvation, saying it's not impossible.
---christan on 3/17/12


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"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) So, first we need how God works in our will so then we are willing . . . in His love "in our hearts" (Romans 5:5) the way His love renews us to be willing, not how our own ego pretends to choose!!!

"No one is good but One, that is, God." (in Matthew 19:17) So, of our own goodness human we can not choose right. The credit and glory are purely to God.

Our wicked hearts needed to be changed first. And now we need to totally depend on God > "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God," (2 Corinthians 3:5)
---willie_c: on 3/17/12


Warwick, very good point you brought out. Nice to hear you speak for the Truth. If he said "died for all men" he must mean men only, not women, another wrong interpretation.
People need to make an attempt to find the correct meaning. It seems people just don't care. It is too much work.
I look at it this way, if the person is born of the Spirit, he will do everything possible to know the real truth. The Spirit guides us to all Truth. Never to a lie. There is many things that we will never get to know, but what we need, the Spirit will provide us with the gift so that we can meet our needs
---Mark_V. on 3/17/12


Eloy, Jesus does not force anyone to come to Him. They have to be willing to come to Him. But the lost are not willing. They are children of wrath. You yourself spoke of the two seeds in (Gen 3:15) and Scripture tells us about the children of the free woman of the promise and those of the bondwoman. The New Testament tells us those who believe are the one's who are born of God. Only those who are of God are willing to abide in Christ. Jesus said,
"O jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, "but you were not willing"
The lost need to be made willing.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/12


You must cooperate, you must participate, for Jesus does not force his salvation onto anyone: you can either choose him, or else reject him. But you must want salvation, repent from your sin, and ask him to save you. Else, you remain condemned in sin and separated from salvation.
---Eloy on 3/17/12


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\\We should note that the verse does NOT STATE for us to work FOR our salvation but to work it OUT.

Would this not imply that we already have our salvation?\\
---lee1538 on 3/16/12

Only if "work it out" meant the same thing to a 1st century tentmaker as it does to 21st century scholars
---James_L on 3/17/12


JackB, Scripture says God created in 6 days but you say we cannot know how long the days were.

But here you write "How many more scriptures need to say that Christ died for all men before you accept the fact that you have believed a lie in Limited Atonement?"

If the meaning of Genesis is doubtful how can we believe the Scriptures which say Christ died for all men? After all they are both from the same book, aren't they? Using your reasoning maybe the Scriptures mean he died only for men (not women) and maybe only for some men, at that?
---Warwick on 3/17/12


Jack B, God also desires that no one sin, and everyone comes short of the glory of God because they all sin. You also say that Christ "who gave himself a ransom for ALL," if you are going to preach this, then you are saying everyone will be saved (Universal salvation) which is another gospel. You are also contradicting the word since Jesus told us He layed down His life for His sheep. So before you throw passages read them, for God does not contradict His Word.
If Jesus gave Himself a ransom for all, then no one is guilty of sin, since He would have been a substitute for everyone sin on the Cross. Your interpretation is wrong, for many are going to hell.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/12


"Christan, salvation IS wholly of God and He wants ALL men to know the truth." JackB

True but complete your teaching by also declaring, "For many are called, but few are chosen." Matthew 22:14

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called" 1 Corinthians 1:26

The Word of God is not for you to pick and choose what you you want to say. Truth is, God has already finished His election and it's now in fruition till the last saint walks in to His fold. The problem with your gospel is you deny that God has a plan and that He is desperately seeking to save sinners, which is far from the Truth.
---christan on 3/17/12


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"Is our salvation wholly of God?" Yes. "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Eph. 2:8,9
---josef on 3/17/12


salvation is solely of God.

it taking less effort for me to believe (as i get over myself)...

John 14:1 "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me. "

it takes no effort for me to accept (the more that I believe.)

Mar_4:20 "...But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold."
---aka on 3/16/12


Christan, salvation IS wholly of God and He wants ALL men to know the truth

(1 Tim 2:1-6)

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men.... For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time.

How many more scriptures need to say that Christ died for all men before you accept the fact that you have believed a lie in Limited Atonement? It simply does not fit in the Truth!
---JackB on 3/16/12


Mark your use of this scripture in light of the fact that you believe in predestination to belief and perseverance of the saints struck me as odd.

"These antichrists are trying to seduce us away from Jesus Christ" ( 1John 2:26).

How is one who believes he was predestined to believe in Jesus and guaranteed perseverance possibly in any danger of being seduced away from Christ?

Why would the Holy Spirit warn us of such spirits if we were in no danger of being pulled away by them?
---Blogger9680 on 3/16/12


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\\(Jesus is the lamb/heifer of God).\\

A heifer is female.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/16/12


"At the cross, purification of THE FLESH (from the sin law) was accomplished." mew

God declared, "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." - "that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" - "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing... So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

Does Hebrews 9:13, really imply that one will be "purified in the flesh"? And what's with, " if a believer lets the Spirit witness to them and they learn to be "good and right and true"? "Let's"???

The Creator needs to seek approval from His creation? Wow!
---christan on 3/16/12


Jesus came to earth to become the FINAL sin sacrifice and He made purification FOR THE FLESH (Jesus is the lamb/heifer of God).

Hebrews 9:13 "the ashes of a heifer sanctifies for the purification of the flesh".

At the cross, purification of THE FLESH (from the sin law) was accomplished. Purification OF CONSCIENCE is accomplished by the "eternal spirit" (the "Spirit of LIFE"...the Holy Spirit) when and if a believer lets the Spirit witness to them and they learn to be "good and right and true" (Ephesians 5:8).
"it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Romans 8:16).
"for as yet the Spirit had not been given".(John 7:39).
---more_excellent_way on 3/16/12


"WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, WITH MEN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26,27

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but UNTO US WHICH ARE SAVED IT IS THE POWER OF GOD." 1 Corinthians 1:18

Being able to believe in Jesus Christ is wholly the work and power of God 100%. Definitely not by the man's own 'free-will' but God's!
---christan on 3/16/12


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Lee, it is wholly of God, from beginning to end. If it depended on our works, we would all still be heading to hell condemned.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already," because he has not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (v.18).

If they still had a chance to use their own free will, the Bible would not say they are condemned already.
And John explains why in (v.19),
"And this it the condemnation, that light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil" (John 3:18,19).
---Mark_V. on 3/16/12


Romans 10:9-13

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Paul is saying those who do not call on his name will not be save, mind you he is speaking to believers!
---Ruben on 3/16/12


You got to believe to get saved. But it is God who gives that belief to some but not to some others. So in the end there ain't nothing you do to get saved.
---Pat.pat on 3/16/12


The word "salvation" means we are saved from the CURSE of being bound to the "SIN" LAW (10 Commandments). A more accurate explanation of "salvation" is that ON THE CROSS Jesus made "PURIFICATION" for "sins" (Hebrews 1:3 "He had made purification for sins").

The Jews used to make offerings and sacrifices (offering "bulls and goats"/"heifer") in order to become acceptable to God (this was THEIR "purification"),.....but they had to do it every year because THEIR "purification" was only temporary and couldn't TRULY be sufficient.

"For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4).
---more_excellent_way on 3/16/12


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Acts4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other,for there is no other name(Jesus)under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Romans10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 2Corinthians7:10 For Godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation. Philippians2:12 Therefore,my beloved,as you have always obeyed,not as in my presence only,but now much more in my absence,work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,-. Our salvation is all from God but we must take an active part to receive that salvation,by responding to God's drawing us. Believe,respond,repent,baptised,walk by faith,trust and obey God.
---Darlene_1 on 3/16/12


Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling...

We should note that the verse does NOT STATE for us to work FOR our salvation but to work it OUT.

(2:12 Message Bible) What Im getting at, friends, is that you should simply keep on doing what youve done from the beginning. When I was living among you, you lived in responsive obedience. Now that Im separated from you, keep it up. Better yet, redouble your efforts. Be energetic in your life of salvation, reverent and sensitive before God.

Would this not imply that we already have our salvation?
---lee1538 on 3/16/12


work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Phillipians 2:12b-13
---Cluny on 3/16/12


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