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What Is Predestination

Someone asked, "How many scriptures are there using the word predestination? What was predestined?" When one reads Isaiah 53 about the coming Savior, isn't that clearly defined as predestination?

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 ---christan on 3/16/12
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Christan, have you ever read ALL of Ephesians..I mean the WHOLE LETTER, teh way Paul wrote it to Ephesis? He sent them a LETTER.

When you get a letter from someone, do you:

1. only read the first sentence and come to your own conclusions?

2. READ the Whole letter to see, beginning, body end and Conclusion or the SUMMARY.

Try reading ALL of it, and make an outline, and write a SUMMARY. Note Ephesians 5-6 conclude what Paul said in ch 1-4.

You would make a poor spokesperson for anyone, since you have selective hearing and HOW dangerous that is.

You're dealing with SOULS, not your dirty underware...so watch it!
---kathr4453 on 3/22/12


Kathr4453 - I guess the problem really is that you are an Arminian but really do not realize it.

Mt. 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

In Arminianism, salvation is accomplished thru the combined efforts of God who takes the initiative and man who must respond being the determining factor. God has provided salvation for everyone but His provision become effective only for those who of their own free will, choose to cooperate with Him & accept His offer of grace. Thus man not God determines who will be the recipient of His grace.
---lee1538 on 3/22/12


And like one that adopts a child, he adopts those whom he choses, not everyone that is available.
---lee1538 on 3/22/12


Sorry LeeJ, it has nothign to do with a human adopting from an orphanage.

Adoption here is to be brought to a HIGHER status than Adam & Eve or even the Angels.

So putting adoption here in it's proper perspective, it has to do with our POSITION, as SONS OF GOD!

God predetermined before the foundation of the world to bring Sons into GLORY. This is promised ONLY to the Church, Christ's BODY.

Not earthly Israel.

THIS is what was KEPT SECRET, and now revealed.. the Gospel according to the MYSTERY. Colossians 1:24-27
---kathr4453 on 3/22/12


Adam & Eve never had a position as CHILDREN of God THROUGH Jesus Christ. They were never considered NEW CREATURES, however saved they were.

The Problem here is, many fail to understand who and what the Church is. WE are the BRIDE of Christ, not the wife of God, nor the residue of men.

BUT in order for one to really understand, they must be Born Again, Born of the Spirit of the Life of the RISEN CHRIST and taught of teh Holy Spirit.

Now many brag they are born again and only they can hear...BUT WHAT are, or rather I should say, WHO are they listening to...certainly not to God!
---kathr4453 on 3/22/12


I really wish christan would study to show himself approved RIGHTLY and not WRONGLY dividing teh word of truth.

christan just grabs verses having NOTHING whatsoever to do with Salvation based on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He sees "personal election" in EVERY VERSE in the Bible.

NOT every VERSE is about YOU, and not every verse is about teh CHURCH. AND since the CHURCH was hidden and not revealed in the OT, one can say that these verses are not about the CHURCH.

My what overactive imaginations some here have!

IF the LAW doesn't apply to US, neither do these scriptures!
---kathr4453 on 3/22/12




//5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

And like one that adopts a child, he adopts those whom he choses, not everyone that is available.
---lee1538 on 3/22/12


"Leon, I knew you were all talk. Do you know why I knew? because all I get from you is talk with a lot of speculations. Most of you speak so highly of your free will. How great your free will is and how your free will overrules the will of God, and how He cannot infringe in your rights, and to this day, none of you can find any passages where God tells us the will of man is free, or that He (God) gave man free will. You know why? Because God is God and you are dust, from the ground, turned to clay by the Potter just like everyone else."
---Mark_V. on 3/21/12


The great & powerful Mark has spoken! Take another pill ~ get a checkup from the neck up ~ get a grip! :D
---Leon on 3/22/12


"Calvinists have a horrible PROBLEM not giving you the WHOLE verse, but stop SHORT of what is being said."

What does Ephesians 1 talks about? By your free-will that you have gone to Christ? "not giving the WHOLE verse" is not the issue but your understanding is questionable.

Ephesians 1 teches about how the saints in Ephesus came to Christ. 'BY ELECTION' (verse 4) and these Paul says were 'PREDESTINATED TO BE ADOPTED IN CHRIST" (verse 5). See how the Holy Spirit works? Uses a vessel of 'free-will" to proclaim the doctrine of election and predestination!

Yet the 'free-willer' still remains as blind as ever. God made a donkey talk, what more can He do with the sinful man?
---christan on 3/22/12


Ephesians 1:4-5

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,



Calvinists have a horrible PROBLEM not giving you the WHOLE verse, but stop SHORT of what is being said.

Yes, Adam & Eve were never promised this. If Adam & Eve never sinned. THEY would still be on earth, made out of teh dust of the earth.

WE however are NEW CREATURES, and THIS is what was predestined!
---kathr4453 on 3/22/12


Here is an explination of Christan's verses. It has NOTHING to do with God pre-picking HIM for salvation!

Assurance is given of the destruction of the Philistines and their power, by famine and war. Hezekiah would be more terrible to them than Uzziah had been. Instead of rejoicing, there would be lamentation, for the whole land would be ruined. Such destruction will come upon the proud and rebellious, but the Lord founded Zion for a refuge to poor sinners, who flee from the wrath to come, and trust in his mercy through Christ Jesus. Let us tell all around of our comforts and security, and exhort them to seek the same refuge and salvation.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/12




If Isaiah never declared, "This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? Isaiah 14:26,27 - one could be forgiven for saying God never purposed such an act to happen.

"For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. Acts 4:27,28

No such a thing as predestination? You must be blind.
---christan on 3/22/12


"Did God put wickedness and iniquity in Simon's heart?" Nana

What is it that you are unable to understand and belief in what is declared in the Scriptures by the prophets of God?

"the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:11 - that is, even the acts of wickedness is purposed by God according to Isaiah.

"The LORD hath made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4 - King Solomon declares that the wicked were created by God Himself, and people say He does not create reprobates?
---christan on 3/22/12


#1
Christan, can you read? DIDN'T I say to die for OUR SIN?

Let's put it this way. Harvard was built with a "predetermined" idea of EDUCATING those who were accepted into an elete this or that...correct.What an HONOR to say you were educated at Harvard...correct?

BUT with Harvard, one must work hard to get in, and have money..correct. BUT there is a somewhat guarantee to those who get in they will in those 4-8 or more years be something they weren't before being accepted.

Now I know before you finish listening and meditating you will totally miss the point and tear apart. SO, this is not for your understanding.

Next
---kathr4453 on 3/22/12


#2

Now let's take a look at WHY and WHAT God has promised to those who accept His Son.

1. It's not like a human institution where only an elete certain people can get in.

2. Enrollment is OPEN to all who believe on Jesus who died and rose again for our sin.

3. It doesn't COST a cent, no HARD WORK necessary.

4. God has Purposed before the foundation of the world that all sinners who come TO and THROUGH Jesus Christ are GUARANTEED etrnal life, sanctification, and Glorification.


5.WHOSOEVER WILL may come. Acceptance is BY FAITH, not hard work, or social standing or MONEY.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/12


3#

Now let's just say Jesus HIMSELF is Harvard. So, one musthave and be given access IN HIM and He in you. This is called His body. Access is through identification with Christ in Death and Resurrection life.

Romans 6-8 is what you will be learning and experiencinng.

Galatians 2:20-21 is your MAJOR.

To be an OVERCOMER is your GOAL, and to preach Christ Crucified is your Calling after graduation in the elementaries.

Me myself and I no longer exist.

---kathr4453 on 3/22/12


James L, now you want an apology. Can you quote where I said I dispised anyone? Can you quote me where I said "I believe that faith is a matter of man's will" Stop accusing me falsely.
We give you the Scripture passages, in return you cannot find one passage where God tells us, that He has given us free will to choose Christ. You are all the same, always making remarks, because you have no answers from God's Word, so all of you sound like the same person with the exception of one lady, she is evil. If the blogs about God's rights, over men bother you, you should go to the blogs where you can be happy and joyful all the time. I don't despise anyone, not even the evil lady. I pray for all of you.
---Mark_V. on 3/22/12


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"But WHERE in Isaiah 53 are YOU predestined? "

If the Father declares He has predestined His Son, wouldn't one than conclude that everything around the Son is also predestined? "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:3. So, you think God doesn't know who is going to go to His Son for salvation? He declares He has predestined them, only we do not know who these are but the Trinity.

So, this is how you understand Isaiah 53 that only Christ was predestined? Seriously? The head is predestined and the body isn't? If that's so according to you, then the Father must really be nervous who will come to His Son.
---christan on 3/21/12


"... God controls the circumstances."


Yes, but not as you paint it.
Isaiah 1:16_17 "Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes, cease to do evil,"
Said to'sinful man'. Nothing about election, predestination, freaky control. God simply says,
'do this and we'll talk'.
Acts 8:21-23 "Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity."

Did God put wickedness and iniquity in Simon's heart?
---Nana on 3/21/12


What kind of God would then predestine the horrific death of His Son only to make mankind savable (which is what 'free-will' doctrine believes in)? A god of the 'free-willer' imagination is the answer.

Who then was Christ referring to when He declared, "ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVETH ME SHALL COME TO ME, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 - who are these"ALL"? Scripture clearly confirms the "ALL" will be the elect.

And when were the "elect" elected? "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world... Having predestinated us..." Ephesians 1:4,5 - deny all you want, the elect were also predestinated.
---christan on 3/21/12


Yes Christan, Jesus was clearly predestined before the foundation of the world to die for our sin.

But WHERE in Isaiah 53 are YOU predestined?

1 Peter 1:19-21

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory, that your faith and hope might be in God.

THAT IS VERY CLEAR.
---kathr4453 on 3/21/12


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Go ahead Christan. Find one place I have lied about something you have said. See I can back things up because I copy conversations purposely to catch heretics in their lies. It never fails, they always contradict themselves or claim they didnt say something when they did. Its a sign of a faulty doctrine.
---CraigA on 3/21/12


They get so full of themselves as an unauthorized spokesperson for God that they have lost all humanity---Nana

A M E N!!! Thank God someone said it!

They accuse God of things that not even unbelievers could do to their children, such as purposely torturing some of them so that the ones not being tortured will see how good they have it! That is Calvinism in a nutshell.

They READ about God but they have never experienced the LOVE of his Holy Spirit or they could never speak such blasphemy! Reminds me of the Pharisees who honor God with their lips but never opened their heart to him.
---CraigA on 3/21/12


Nana//The calvinist extremists have gone so far as to excommunicate John Calvin himself.

Not everyone is an 'extreme Calvinist', but all those that believe what the scripture teaches would support TULIP as such is fully scriptural.

I suspect that the problem some have is that they believe in 'free will' but ignore the fact that free will really involves choices. But choices are determined by the circumstances and God controls the circumstances.
---lee1538 on 3/21/12


The calvinist extremists have gone so far as to excommunicate John Calvin himself!
A.W. Pink also has been discounted. They get so full of themselves as an unauthorized spokesperson for God that they have lost all humanity.

As if God needs all that pomp!
It would do them good to start afresh from their humanity, "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice",
ah, but their bellies may be too accustomed to their own vile.
---Nana on 3/21/12


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Leon, I knew you were all talk. Do you know why I knew? because all I get from you is talk with a lot of speculations. Most of you speak so highly of your free will. How great your free will is and how your free will overrules the will of God, and how He cannot infringe in your rights, and to this day, none of you can find any passages where God tells us the will of man is free, or that He (God) gave man free will. You know why? Because God is God and you are dust, from the ground, turned to clay by the Potter just like everyone else.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/12


Mark V, Can you quote me advocating "free will" ??? Or stop accusing me falsely ???

You believe that faith is a matter of man's will. The only difference between you and those you despise is that you believe God super-imposed His will and made you choose Christ.

It wouldn't really matter if your will is free to choose Christ, or if you have been strongarmed into choosing Christ

BOTH are unbibllical, because man does not have the ability to choose what he believes. You are either convinced, or you don't believe.

Saving Faith = believing God's promise. When you are convinced of the truth, IT'S DONE.
---James_L on 3/21/12


Christian, I did read it, numerous times. No matter what context you used it in, you still support a spirit Jesus doesn't. You and Mark on many occasions have flat out called people who dont believe as you do unsaved and rejecting the form of elitism you regard. Jesus, in dealing with those who rejected Him, never condemned them. It was a Samaritan woman He gave living water to and a Samaritan man He used as an example of being good to a neighbor. You two....you don't get agreement you tear down. Different spirit no matter how you look at it.
---blogger8980 on 3/21/12


"If you closely follow Mark and Christans responses youll find a lot of anger and condescending remarks, mixed in with complete lies about what we have said."

CraigA, and I guess you're perfectly free from "anger and condescending remarks, mixed in with complete lies", in all you have said, right?


Blogger8980: one piece of advice. Please go read carefully the context of my quoting 1 Kings 18:27 before you jump on the bandwagon with your comments.
---christan on 3/21/12


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//Calvinism is based on works, and fear.


Yes, the doctrine of election is a hard one to accept but it is totally supported by scripture.

In our human value system, we would like to say that God is unfair in His dealing with us. He chose Jacob over Esau even before either was born.

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,)

Usually those who detest the belief God is sovereign are usually those who have a god of their own conception, not the one we find in Scripture.
---lee1538 on 3/21/12


"Leon, since you are a supporter of..."Free will"...I challenge you, to show proof from God's Word..."Where in Scripture are we told that man has a will that is free?"...
---Mark_V. on 3/21/12


You of the "us/we" collective need to stop being so supercilious Mark. Get a grip! You've completely unravelled on this blog. Not a pretty sight! Clearly, you're not "willing" to face reality. Okay! You, of a "free will", can choose not to do so. I can show you nothing since you aren't "willing" to see the facts of human existence. So, if you're "willing", you "us/we" can "freely choose" to fight yourselves! :)

p.s. Joshua 24:14-15
---Leon on 3/21/12


James L, "fear boasting how good we are? You are boasting what great a deed you did by choosing Christ with your free will. You thought there was something good in you.
Only good people go to heaven, of course, the wicked go to hell.
1. T. Total depravity. Hello? "Total" nothing good there.
2. Unconditional election. God's choice of certain individuals rest soley in His own soverign will.
3. L. Salvation is limited to only those who have faith, which comes from God.
4. E. The Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that brings them to salvation.
5. P. All who are chosen and called inwardly and given faith by the Spirit are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus presevere.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/12


I challenge you, to show proof from God's Word "where He tells us that fallen man has a free will."

---Mark_V. on 3/21/

I accept this challenge:

One in the OT and one from the NT!

2nd Chronicles 26:

"Uzziah was sixteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned fifty-two years in Jerusalem.And he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord v3

"But when he was strong, he grew proud, to his destruction. For he was unfaithful to the Lord v16

"And King Uzziah was a leper to the day of his death, and being a leper lived in a separate house, for he was excluded from the house of the LORD" v21
---Ruben on 3/21/12


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"Yes, angry for sure. Sick quotes list: Why all this is allowed by the Moderators I would like to know." Nana 03/19/20

You judge others of being angry and sick. And the very next day, you do what you accuse others of doing, your words: "You really think you are speaking for and defending God? The both of you go from ridiculous to idiotic... Why in HELL do you argue with us daily? Do you believe what you preach? If you did, you would be the most mellow of christian ensamples. Why do you argue with his creation then?" Nana 03/20/12

It sure didn't take you very long from calling out others to turning yourself into one you accuse others of doing, did it? That's called hypocrisy!
---christan on 3/21/12


CraigA,
Calvinism is based on works, and fear. Implications of the TULIP backkward:

P - Only "good" people endure and are saved
I - God made them "good" so they would choose Him
L - Christ only died for "good" people
U - God chose who would be "good"
T - Bad people need God to make them "good"


They fear boasting at how "good" they are. With their doctrine, they can say only "good" people go to heaven, and pretend to give God all the glory for their works-based "salvation"

It's a sickness. I'm glad I was healed of it
---James_L on 3/21/12


Leon, since you are a supporter of man's "Free will" to the point of been sarcastic with your rolling words, I challenge you, to show proof from God's Word "where He tells us that fallen man has a free will." "Where in Scripture are we told that man has a will that is free?"
You should not have any trouble at all since you support it. You should find lots of them if your whole theology hangs on your own "Free will" and you are willing to fight and argue for it you should have at least twenty passages, but I only ask for three. And please, no speculations.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/12


If you closely follow Mark and Christans responses youll find a lot of anger and condescending remarks, mixed in with complete lies about what we have said. They cling to them to keep the argument going no matter how many times anyone has stressed that we do not save ourselves by our free will. A man calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, just like scripture says, and HE saves that man. Calling upon the Lord is not a work. It is an act of faith. Faith is not a work according to scripture. Therefore there is no reason for you two to think that faith merits salvation. It does not. It is simply the vessel through which we obtain grace and THAT is what saves us.
---CraigA on 3/20/12


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"And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god, either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. 1 Kings 18:27

If you rightly divided the Word, you would also see that Elijah calling down fire from heaven is mentioned in the new testament, but not in a favorable light. When the Samaritans rejected Jesus, James and John asked Him if they should call fire down from heaven. Jesus answered and said, "You don't know what spirit you are of." So, Christian, in defending Elijah's old covenant actions as being a pattern for yours I say to you, "You don't know what spirit you are of." Selah
---blogger8980 on 3/20/12


"...no such thing in the Bible about...free will. Those who hate...their will isn't free. If [it] was free, they [wouldn't] hate or love...In fact [?] they [wouldn't] know what to choose. The same [is] true for those who love...They have reasons [to] desire... their wills aren't free either. If their wills were free, they also wouldn't love or hate..The will chooses what it desires. [?] It's never free. [?] That's why when God's word was written, nowhere were we told [man's] will was free. For the lost, their will is in bondage to sin...the saved, their will is in bondage to Christ. It's never free. Free will is nonsense."
---Mark_V. on 3/20/12


YOU'RE FREE TO WILDLY SPECULATION NONSENSE MARK!!! :)
---Leon on 3/20/12


"Thank you but no thank you very much. I think you need it more than I, though I doubt very much the god you pray to is the same God that has already blessed me with this understanding and knowledge of His Word through His Holy Spirit.

I prefer the God I'm worshiping as compared to the one you are worshiping."
---christan on 3/20/12


Wow Christan! Is your bitterness predestined or do you simply choose to be that way? I'll take what you said with a grain of salt. Still praying for you! :)
---Leon on 3/20/12


"Why do you think this concept is ruining the Church everywhere and putting it into apostasy? You care more about man then about God."
---Mark_V. on 3/20/12

Actually, God does not need care, men do.

John 10:13 "The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep."
You really think you are speaking for and defending God? The both of you go from ridiculous to idiotic,you say God saves his elect and then makes them believe, and He makes wicked men of which we are the bulk right?

Why in HELL do you argue with us daily? Do you believe what you preach? If you did, you would be the most mellow of christian ensamples. Why do you argue with his creation then?
---Nana on 3/20/12


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Christian, Mark....

Nana said nothing about the Scriptures you plates, nor your understandings thereof. She referred to the condescending remarks you have made. Go back and read her post again.
---blogger8980 on 3/20/12


"...First you guys don't like to be told God saves you, you save yourselves with your own free will.Then, names are called back and most of you are treated as you have treated us, now when we treat you the same, you guys cry...you do teach RCC doctrines, works for salvation, more free will...You care more about man then about God."
---Mark_V. on 3/20/12


Mark: You are absolutely wrong!:) "You habitually speculate" against what the entire Bible says about mankind's, God-given free will. God Himself gave man the ability to choose to do right or wrong according to His word.

By the way, just who the "us" are you anyway? You royal "we" sound like legion to me!
---Leon on 3/20/12


"Pray for Christan that God will touch his heart & open his eyes of understanding in accordance with the Lord's will & purpose." Leon

Thank you but no thank you very much. I think you need it more than I, though I doubt very much the god you pray to is the same God that has already blessed me with this understanding and knowledge of His Word through His Holy Spirit.

I prefer the God I'm worshiping as compared to the one you are worshiping.
---christan on 3/20/12


"And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god, either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. 1 Kings 18:27

Hateful spirit? Elijah must also have a "hateful spirit" too. Let's see, did Elijah tell King Ahab and his fellow Jews at Mount Carmel, "We still serve the same God."? Did he? Be reminded that Elijah was warring with his own fellow Jews with regards to worshiping the one and true God.

You say you're a Christian and I too say I'm one. Guess what, the very god you describe does not even come close to what He decribes Himself in the Scripture.
---christan on 3/20/12


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Pray for Christan that God will touch his heart & open his eyes of understanding in accordance with the Lord's will & purpose.
---Leon on 3/20/12


"Why all this is allowed by the Moderators I would like to know." Nana

If someone was to come into your home and instruct you to do according to what they think is the right way to run your home, how would you reply them?

If you really hate what we say, there's no obligation for you to respond, right? We present Scriptures to contradict your understandings of certain verses and you get all sensitive and demand action from the moderator? At least the moderator is allowing both sides to express their views, which is what I cannot say about you.

I'm sure you wouldn't be too please with Jesus when He rebuked the "supposedly chosen people of God, aka the Jews" in John 8. Go read it!
---christan on 3/20/12


Nana, now you want the moderators to not allow the very truth of Scripture. First you guys don't like to be told God saves you, you save yourselves with your own free will. Which is false. Then, names are called back and most of you are treated as you have treated us, now when we treat you the same, you guys cry, and whin, why is it allowed? you say. I know you are not an RCC for you have said that many times, but you do teach RCC doctrines, works for salvation, more free will. Why do you think this concept is ruining the Church everywhere and putting it into apostasy? You care more about man then about God.
---Mark_V. on 3/20/12


"You have a very hateful spirit, Christan."
CraigA on 3/19/12

Yes, angry for sure.

Sick quotes list:
"your godless concoction"
"This god of yours sounds like someone we can find sitting at a table with a bandanna and a crystal ball..."
"And they mock God"
"Your love for "free-will" really makes you hate God "
"you poor deluded soul"

Why all this is allowed by the Moderators I would like to know.
---Nana on 3/19/12


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"Predestined, in context to Scripture, means Omniscient God knows in advance the number of people destined (because of what's in their heart) to "willingly" choose or reject Him." Leon

Scriptures contradicts you.

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11

Understand "declaring, my counsel, spoken, purposed, I will also do it"?
---christan on 3/19/12


//This god of yours sounds like someone we can find sitting at a table with a bandanna and a crystal ball, who can be found at many carnivals and circus shows//

You have a very hateful spirit, Christan. I see it in most of your responses to others. You seem very threatened that your doctrine could be wrong. We still serve the same God. You for some reason just believe He doesnt love everyone else the same way he loves you.
---CraigA on 3/19/12


atheist, and i you.
---aka on 3/19/12


"The Bible plainly teaches Omniscient God simply knows (past, present & future) exactly who in the world wills to "freely choose" to accept or reject Him. In other words, He knows where everyone (whosoever) "freely chooses" (by self-determination are destined) to go!" Leon

This god of yours sounds like someone we can find sitting at a table with a bandanna and a crystal ball, who can be found at many carnivals and circus shows. I'm really curious to see the verses you will use to support your "tooth fairy" claims of this biblical god you say exist in the Bible.
---christan on 3/19/12


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"Leon, you are absolutely wrong. In fact your replys question the Word of God in Romans...Paul knew there would be those like you Leon who would question what God actions were..." [Speculation?!]
---Mark_V. on 3/19/12


I stand corrected Mark! :) Wherein predestination isn't in the Bible, "predestined" certainly is.

In light of what Jesus said (Jn. 3:14-17) what did Paul mean in Romans 8? Remember, none of your speculations! :) Your answer must fit what the Bible says.

Predestined, in context to Scripture, means Omniscient God knows in advance the number of people destined (because of what's in their heart) to "willingly" choose or reject Him.

Lighten up Mark! :]
---Leon on 3/19/12


AKA,

In any case I would still love you as a brother...
---atheist on 3/19/12


atheist, you will never smell my morning breath or smell me before I shower, but i will assure that i do offendiate without.
---aka on 3/19/12


Leon, you are absolutely wrong. In fact your replys question the Word of God in Romans. After explaining "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom He predestined, these He also called, whom He called, these He also justified, and whom He justified, these He also glorified" Paul knew there would be those like you Leon who would question what God actions were, so He said, "if God is for us who can be against us"

"Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and forethermore is also risen"
---Mark_V. on 3/19/12


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AKA,

That is good. You will probably never offendiate anyone.
---atheist on 3/18/12


Predestination, a word that's not in the Bible, implies that God has selected some to be saved & others to perish. This Calvinistic view is unbiblical.

The Bible plainly teaches Omniscient God simply knows (past, present & future) exactly who in the world wills to "freely choose" to accept or reject Him. In other words, He knows where everyone (whosoever) "freely chooses" (by self-determination are destined) to go!
---Leon on 3/18/12


atheist, it is predestinated that i am the king of pedestrian humor.
---aka on 3/18/12


AKA,

Are you sure it isn't predestinated humor.
---atheist on 3/18/12


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"So, this is a prophecy, not the predestination that came before this was written." willie_c"

"But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world..." 1 Peter 19,20 - and that's why God put His plans in the form of the Holy Bible to tell us He has purposed all that is prophesied and they will come to fruition accordingly. Dictionary defines this act as "predestined/ predestination".

"For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?"Isaiah 14:27
---christan on 3/17/12


the humor here is a bit pedestrian.
---aka on 3/17/12


Years ago, I heard that a pedestrian was a man with three cars, a wife, and two teenage daughters. :)
---StrongAxe on 3/17/12

good one
sweet
---francis on 3/17/12


atheist:

Years ago, I heard that a pedestrian was a man with three cars, a wife, and two teenage daughters. :)
---StrongAxe on 3/17/12


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kathr4453 //God predestined our sanctification, not our justification.

---
Wrong again, obviously you are confused in your doctrine.

Romans 8:29-30 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

If you were to become a member of a Reformed Faith and learn from them, then perhaps you would know doctrine.
---lee1538 on 3/17/12


A pedestrian is a person who believes in walking and taking the route of his choice, and not just getting on a bus to wherever it's going.
---atheist on 3/17/12


You are asking about Isaiah chapter 53. This talks about how a person would be innocent and make intercession for wrong people. So, this is understood to be a prophecy of the coming of Jesus to give Himself for us on the cross. So, this is a prophecy, not the predestination that came before this was written. Before the foundation of the earth our Father destined that Jesus would come. He was so pleased with His Son, that He destined that He would have more like Jesus (Romans 8:29). But we are not God. So we on our own can not choose what only God can desire and destine. He destines, love destines (c: What we love can destine what becomes of us.
---willie_c: on 3/17/12


It is the idea that the elect of God and only the elect of God will respond to the gospel. It also means that God knows who those people are. This part of predestination is taught in scriptures in Romans Ch. 9-11 and other verses such as Jesus saying "You did not choose me but I have choose you". Good parts of this is that God alone saves through his grace. The bad part of this theology is people worry about who is the elect and only teach them the gospel. Also it has God creating people who are damned to hell without any hope.
---Scott1 on 3/17/12


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Predestination is the will of God, that all who believe will be saved. God has dtermined before the individaul was born, that should he believe he will be saved.
The individual never has to ask God what will happen if i believe. God has already determined that this indivual will be saved if he believes. And God never changes his mind as to what will happen in one believes.
Itis simply stated beforehand and forever, that should one believe he will be saved.
---francis on 3/16/12


The same place in scripture where it says that God takes pleasure in the death of the wicked and keeps men from repenting. The same chapter where it says Jesus didn't die for all men.
---JackB on 3/17/12


\\Nowhere...is a foreseen conditional human response ever given...by which God...chooses for redemption.\\
---lee1538 on 3/16/12


Yet, nowhere do we find that God has predestined anyone for redemption.

What is Predesitination?

God has predestined that those He foreknew will suffer, and thereby be conformed to the image of Christ and become joint-heirs with Christ.

Predestined for glory
Predestined for suffering
Predestined to be conformed to Christ's image
Predestined for adoption as sons (joint-heirs)


I began to demsonstrate this in context in the "Working Out Your Salvation" blog, and everybody disappeared

hmmm
---James_L on 3/17/12


there is no doubt that EVERYTHING that God created was predestined even His will which we are freely given to accept or reject

Isa 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men...

Exo_32:33 But the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

doesn't that include everyone?

Rev_3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

doesn't that include anyone?

Praise you, God for the paradox and things we neither fully understand nor reconcile. if we could understand, Lord, there would be no need for your reconciliation of us to you.
---aka on 3/17/12


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According to the Gk lexicon, the word for predestine means "a sovereign determination in which a fixed or definite limit is sovereignly decreed."

So as the English word suggest there is a destiny for certain people that God from the foundation of the world, has established. He has fixed it, He has determined it according to the sovereign good pleasure of His will.

Nowhere in scripture is a foreseen conditional human response ever given as the rationale for the eternal decree by which God fixes for all eternity those whom He ordains and chooses for redemption.
---lee1538 on 3/16/12


Predestination is ensuring that a future event will happen:

Christ coming into the world to die for our sins (1 Cor 2:7)

God ensuring that Christ was slain (Acts 4:28)

believers being adopted as sons (Eph 1:5)

believers receiving an inheritance thru Christ (Eph 1:11)

believers being conformed to Christs image (Romans 8:29)

---Blogger9680 on 3/16/12


I guess what ever happens that takes God by surprise is not predestined.
---Pat.pat on 3/16/12


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