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Can You Lose Salvation

Can you lose your salvation? Once in Christ and never out.
It is a myth of course. If their was no such thing of backsliding, hypocrites, sinners, or saints Jesus would not have put a label to each word mention (backslider, hypocrites, sinners, or saints. Once in Christ and never out. No!

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 ---Patricia on 3/19/12
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The death and resurrection --conquered death---period.

Jn8[all]24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
1 Tim 4 [all]17
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach. Let no man despise thy youth, but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Hearing comes by the Word of God...
Faith comes by hearing


Romans 10 [all] :17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
---char on 3/27/12


---James_L on 3/26/12
Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing, whose end [is] to be burned.


Those who are enlighten and receive the holy ghost ( bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed) will receive a blessing, they will be saved

Those who are enlightened and receive the holy ghost ( which beareth thorns and briers) will not be saved, they will be is rejected, and burned
---francis on 3/27/12


CraigA, is the call of the Gospel similar to "your phone call" analogy? I think not. Let's read what it entails to answer the call of the Gospel.

"It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

Therefore, the call of the Gospel is a Spiritual exercise that "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

You see, God does give His Spirit to everyone! "election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth"
---christan on 3/27/12


to be in the fellowship with Christ, one must first be called by God. CALLED, what 'free-will'?--Christan

When someone CALLS you on the phone do they MAKE you pick it up and answer them? or do you exercise your free will to answer?
---CraigA on 3/26/12


\\So people who were: ENLIGHTENED, tasted of the heavenly gift, made partakers of the Holy Ghost, have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, can still fall away

Will they be saved if they fall away?\\
---francis on 3/26/12


francis,
why is it that those who believe in "potentially saved" never want to go past verse 6 of Hebrews 6 ??

verse 7
For the ground that drinks the rain...receives a blessing

verse 8
but if it yields thorns...it is CLOSE to being accursed

There is NOTHING here that says anything about going to hell.

YES, an apostate will be in heaven. We are saved, not "potentially saved"

And this salvation is APART FROM WORKS
---James_L on 3/26/12




John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.

ONE WAS LOST
God knows everything from start to finish, God did not cause Judas to be lost
neither does God cause any to be lost

judas was ordained by jesus, given the power of the holy ghost to cast our demons and heal the sick, promised a throne in heaven with the other 11 disciples to judge israel. YET Jesus said he was lost.

meaning we can lose our salvation

More acurately we can forfeit our salvation
No one cn take it from us, No one can seperate us from God, not even death. We like Judas can give it up
---francis on 3/26/12


--Why not finish the verse, Ruben. Not even a hint that the verse continued. Such deception to try to prove a point.
--To finish... "...that scripture may be fulfilled" John 17:12b
--You see God already knew this would happen, Judas is not elect, for the elect do not fall away.
---micha9344 on 3/26/12

Micha,

Which scripture verse is Jesus referring to, you ask?

" Even my close friend, who I trusted ,
he who shared my bread,
has lifted up his heel against me." (Psalm 41:9)

How in the world can you be a close friend of Jesus and someone he trusted and not be a elect?
---Ruben on 3/26/12


"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them,and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction" (Jhn 17:12)
--Ruben on 3/26/12
--Why not finish the verse, Ruben. Not even a hint that the verse continued. Such deception to try to prove a point.
--To finish... "...that scripture may be fulfilled" John 17:12b
--You see God already knew this would happen, Judas is not elect, for the elect do not fall away.
---micha9344 on 3/26/12


christan* Just because you say you're a 'believer', you are in no need of checking whether the Spirit of God is with you?

Again, if you are the 'elect' and can't lose your Salvation, why do you need to check if you have the Spirit of God in you?

christan * But you don't seem to be getting it yourself especially when you say, "Those that the Father draws to Christ are the ones who listen to the Father and learns from him v45."

I am getting it, just because you 'listen' and 'learn' does not mean you can not walk away " Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this..From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."(Jhn 6:60,67)
---Ruben on 3/26/12


christan* Judas "didn't lose his salvation", he was simply not chosen by God,

""Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you , the Twelve?"( Jhn6:70)

"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them,and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction" (Jhn 17:12)

How can Judas who had no salvation be kept in the 'Father name' and be guarded by Jesus?

christan *Judas was created to betray Christ,

" but woe to that man by whom the betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born ." ( MT 26:21-25)

Shouldn't Jesus said, 'for this reason why this man was born:)
---Ruben on 3/26/12




michael_e, let's see if Scripture agrees or contradict your believe.

"God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." 1 Corinthians 1:19 - to be in the fellowship with Christ, one must first be called by God. CALLED, what 'free-will'?

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He that calleth you, who also will do it." 1 Thessalonians 5:23,24

See anywhere that says, "you have the responsibility for keeping it secure". It's God who keeps His people and not the other way round.
---christan on 3/26/12


Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

So people who were: ENLIGHTENED, tasted of the heavenly gift, made partakers of the Holy Ghost, have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, can still fall away

Will they be saved if they fall away?
---francis on 3/26/12


CraigA, you agree than "anyone" calling on Jesus is the result of him being "born of the Spirit" OR that he called on Christ then becomes "born of the Spirit"?---Christan

The latter. Since we don't receive the Spirit until AFTER we show faith in Jesus Christ. There are so many examples of that in scripture, I dont know how it is confusing you. Acts is full of them.
---CraigA on 3/26/12


CraigA, you agree than "anyone" calling on Jesus is the result of him being "born of the Spirit" OR that he called on Christ then becomes "born of the Spirit"?---Christan

The latter. Since we don't receive the Spirit until AFTER we show faith in Jesus Christ. There are so many examples of that in scripture, I dont know how it is confusing you. Acts is full of them.
---CraigA on 3/26/12


Francis //what happens if you DO NOT "continue in the faith grounded and settled, and move away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard,"

Those that would move away from the hope of the gospel they heard never really had the faith grounded and settled in their lives in the first place.

All they may have had is some kind of intellectual assent to what the gospel preached. It never made it from their heads to their hearts.

And that is the problem with those who have have only religion - some kind of ethical philophical belief system instead of an actual and real relationship with Christ in their lives.

One must be born again from above (John 3) to be a Christian and one does not become 'unborn'.
---lee1538 on 3/25/12


Can you lose your salvation?


Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister,

what happens if you DO NOT "continue in the faith grounded and settled, and move away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard,"
---francis on 3/25/12


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James_L.....are you a follower of one Carlton Pearson flock?....."Wider Mercy Doctrine, Universalism or, as it is also term as the "Gospel of Inclusion"...\\
---christan on 3/23/12


I've never heard of him. I'm not a universalist at all.

I believe:
the bible does not designate "true" faith and "fake" faith. Believing the gospel is saving faith

We are justified "apart from" works. Faith may or may not be accompanied by works. A believer may become apostate

Everyone who believes the gospel is born again and remains born again. He has escaped hell, and will never endure its flames
---James_L on 3/25/12


In order to lose something we must have the responsibility for keeping it secure. Otherwise, we didn't lose it, someone else did. We must be careful as we study the Scripture to sort the mail according to whom it was written. Don't read into a verse what is not there, and interpret a verse in its proper context.
---michael_e on 3/25/12


Laws striclty Jewish in nature were no longer required of believers.
---lee1538 on 3/25/12
If an animal died on it's own, example: an animal was strangled, the jews could not eat it, but could give it to a gentile.
Deuteronomy 14:21 Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it, or thou mayest sell it unto an alien

Now The disciples were asking the converted gentiles to follow this law that only jews kept:

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
---francis on 3/25/12


We are saved by grace. We are saved by Jesus' sacrifice, not what we can do. We are imperfect people and cannot live a life free of sin. The old testament describes a sacrifice that was made for the unknown sin. Jesus was that sacrifice too. We don't know what we do... even today. God made provision. If you are truly saved, your name is written on the HAND OF GOD. What is there cannot be unwritten.
---Amy on 3/25/12


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Mt. 19:16f Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?. ..: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. ... Thou shalt do no murder, not commit adultery, ... and love thy neighbor as thyself.

Even wonder if the young man has asked Jesus if he should become circumcised? What would Jesus had told him?

Galatians 4:4-5. But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

The New Covenant that was prophesied by the prophets was ushered with the ministry of Christ. Laws striclty Jewish in nature were no longer required of believers.
---lee1538 on 3/25/12


" But if you want to enter into life Keep the commandments."
And what did Juda's do? betrayed Jesus. He didn't keep the commandments. He had no salvation to begin with.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/12
LOL LOL

How is your day going so far?
---francis on 3/25/12


CraigA, you agree than "anyone" calling on Jesus is the result of him being "born of the Spirit" OR that he called on Christ then becomes "born of the Spirit"? Which is which and don't tell me "what's the difference", because it's between life and death.

And if you believe it's the first and not the latter, why did he "receive the Spirit" from God other than because God loved and elected him from eternity - which is what Paul teaches. Or you disagree.

Fear loosing my salvation? Why should I fear if I believe what Jesus declared? It's the 'free-willers' that fear that's why they say "you can lose your salvation", calling Christ a big fat liar.
---christan on 3/25/12


francis, your interpretation of Juda's lost his salvation is wrong. In (v.17) He had already told them the message of salvation.
" But if you want to enter into life Keep the commandments."
And what did Juda's do? betrayed Jesus. He didn't keep the commandments. He had no salvation to begin with.

Craig in his rebellion against God says, "We called upon Jesus Christ" indicating it was his will that cause salvation to come to him. "who can be saved' But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"
God has to make it possible for men to call upon the Lord. Without God they can do nothing.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/12


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And since you can "imitate Him and be perfect like the Father" by your own 'free-will', Christ death was all in vain--Christan

Noone has ever said that, Christan. Noone. That is your prejudiced belief about anyone who disagrees with "election to belief".

We called upon Jesus Christ (the name of the Lord) to save us from our sins. His Spirit came into our lives and He is the one changing us. He is making us holy. We are not doing it by our own "free will".

There is security in Christ but your fear of losing your salvation has driven you off the deep end into river Delusion. Search the scriptures a little deeper. Stop cherry picking verses. They are ALL truth.
---CraigA on 3/25/12


"This included Judas also. The same judas who lost his salvation by betraying Jesus and not seeking forgiveness" francis

That's according to your own gospel which is definitely not in the Bible. Judas "didn't lose his salvation", he was simply not chosen by God, just like Esau, Pharaoh, Pilate and all the other reprobates. Judas was created to betray Christ, period. It's prophesied in the OT. A reprobate cannot lose their salvation if in the first place were never elected by God. They were created for destruction as taught by Paul in Romans 9.

When you're created a reprobate, all your actions of hating God and Christ will come into play in the form of unbelief of God's words while walking in this world.
---christan on 3/24/12


Mark 3:14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

In addition Judas was ordained by Jesus, and received the power of theholy ghost to cast our demons and heal the sick.

And yet he would not repent and be saved

So yes we can " lose our salvation."

Salvation is by FAITH, the substance of things HOPED for the thing NOT BEEN SEEN.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,
---francis on 3/24/12


promised a throne by God" francis

Really? Sure would like to see that verse.
---christan on 3/24/12


Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel

This included Judas also. The same judas who lost his salvation by betraying Jesus and not seeking forgiveness
---francis on 3/24/12


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Nana, God never said,

"You are free, do as you see fit and in whatever measure it pleases you."

That is sheer nonsense. Obedience is not an option. We are to obey the Lord. If we did what pleases us we would never obey him. These teachings are some of the worst since they teach not to obey God but do what you want as a believer. We are free, free from the slavery of sin.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/12


"promised a throne by God" francis

Really? Sure would like to see that verse. The two verses you quoted in Luke 22:30 and Mark 6:7 never specifically mentioned Judas was "promised a throne by God". For as early as in Mark 3:19, it was written, "And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed Him: and they went into an house."

Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17:12, "those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Know what's perdition? "a state of final spiritual ruin, loss of the soul, damnation", in other words, a reprobate.
---christan on 3/24/12


"You are free, do as you see fit and in whatever measure it pleases you." Nana

Is this how you understand Ephesians 5:2-6 & Matthew 5:48, that by your 'own ability' you can "imitate Christ and be perfect like the Father"? When God commands, it does not mean you have the ability to obey.

And since you can "imitate Him and be perfect like the Father" by your own 'free-will', Christ death was all in vain. Paul says it best,

"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." Romans 10:3,4
---christan on 3/24/12


"Can you outside of being born of the Spirit and if God does not work His grace on you? Really, can you?"

I do not deny the work of the Spirit, however
let me repeat once more what Jesus himself and Paul said:
Paul said, Ephesians 5:2-6: "Therefore be imitators of God...",
Christ said:
Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

You are free, do as you see fit and in whatever measure it pleases you.

Not just anyone calling themselves elect or saying 'Lord, Lord' automatically get the Spirit of God to guide them. Acts 8, Simon was "baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus", but he did not get the Spirit. Can you tell us why?
---Nana on 3/23/12


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We are forgetting that people can turn away
Look at judas:
Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Mark 6:7 And he called [unto him] the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two, and gave them power over unclean spirits,


promised a throne by God
given the power of the holy ghost to cast out demons

Will he be saved?
---francis on 3/23/12


Nana, because Scripture never said that obeying the law was going to give you eternal life. Some believe that unless you continue to obey the law, you can lose your salvation, provided you have received it by grace.

First of all, obeying the law of God is merely a duty the creature has to God. We were created by Him and we owe it to Him to be obedient. As they say, that's history, because of one man.

Jesus taught, "Doth He thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do." Luke 17:9,10
---christan on 3/23/12


"Can we be 'imitators' of and be 'perfect' as God the Father?" Nana

Can you outside of being born of the Spirit and if God does not work His grace on you? Really, can you? You keep on quoting these verses to tell us that we are commanded to do this and do that by God - and by your 'free-will' you teach we can, outside of God's grace. That's not taught in the Scriptures, about your 'free-will'. The very reason God commands us is to show that we are unable to obey Him outside of His Almighty mercy and grace.

And being "created in His image" does not equate to the us having the being of God, which primarily is Holiness. Adam was created sinless but most definitely NOT HOLY. Only ONE is HOLY, God.
---christan on 3/23/12


"Shouldn't the so-call elect know that already! Besides scriptures are not reminding the elect but are 'WARNING THEM'-Why?" Ruben

You sure aren't showing any of these signs when you say "He is talking to believers, so why warn them?". Just because you say you're a 'believer', you are in no need of checking whether the Spirit of God is with you?

"Which is why scriptures are full of warning to christians, my point all along-maybe you are finally getting it,"

But you don't seem to be getting it yourself especially when you say, "Those that the Father draws to Christ are the ones who listen to the Father and learns from him v45." Verse 45 is the result of 44.
---christan on 3/23/12


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True or False? When one believes and is born again that person become a child of God.

John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If one may lose ones salvation, then that person would be damned in hell. But then God would become guilty of infanticide, ie. God would kill off His own children.

Verse 13 sort of implies that our salvation is really something God begets and thus not of our own will.
---lee1538 on 3/23/12


1 Timothy 19_20 "Holding faith, and a good conscience, which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Unlikely that a man who makes shipwreck of the faith would land in a good place. Let's see, spend life with Satan and
think that eternity will still be assured with God? I rather doubt it James L.


Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
---Nana on 3/23/12


"If you claim you can stay away from those sins...
still cling on to those "filthy rags" that's an abomination to the Lord."
---christan on 3/23/12

How could Ruben be clinging to "filty rags" quoting Scripture? Is that a magic trick christi?
Like pulling the wool over our eyes?

Paul said, Ephesians 5:2-6: "Therefore be imitators of God...",
Christ said:
Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Can we be 'imitators' of and be 'perfect' as God the Father?
Lets see,

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over ..."
---Nana on 3/23/12


James_L, from your "believe" that "Through all the warnings in the bible, there is not one warning which says that an apostate will go to hell.", are you a follower of one Carlton Pearson flock?

Your believe seems to be hinged on the "Wider Mercy Doctrine, Universalism or, as it is also term as the "Gospel of Inclusion" as taught by Pearson.
---christan on 3/23/12


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christan* TO REMIND THE CHRISTIAN THAT HIS SALVATION IS ONLY BY THE GRACE OF GOD 100%! THAT'S WHY THEY REPENT AND CLING ON TO CHRIST.

Shouldn't the so-call elect know that already! Besides scriptures are not reminding the elect but are 'WARNING THEM'-Why?

christan* If you claim you can stay away from those sins like "fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry", you are saying you can be made perfect in the flesh. And God does not justify the flesh but the soul of the sinner.

Which is why scriptures are full of warning to christians, my point all along-maybe you are finally getting it, bless be to God:)
---Ruben on 3/23/12


Through all the warnings in the bible, there is not one warning which says that an apostate will go to hell.
---James_L on 3/22/12
I beg to differ:

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,

you cannot turn from the doctrines of God to that of devils and still be saved.

thou shall have no other gos besides / before me
---francis on 3/23/12


//Through all the warnings in the bible, there is not one warning which says that an apostate will go to hell.//
---James_L

Never said Hell or any variations, but it can get pretty dark because you cannot hold Light without a candlestick.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left (aphiemi - forsake) thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works, or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
---aka on 3/23/12


"Why the warning, if the 'elect' can't lose their salvation?" Ruben

TO REMIND THE CHRISTIAN THAT HIS SALVATION IS ONLY BY THE GRACE OF GOD 100%! THAT'S WHY THEY REPENT AND CLING ON TO CHRIST.

If you claim you can stay away from those sins like "fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry", you are saying you can be made perfect in the flesh. And God does not justify the flesh but the soul of the sinner. However, I am not advocating to you to go forth and sin to receive grace, than you're an antinomian.

You claim to belief in grace but still cling on to those "filthy rags" that's an abomination to the Lord.
---christan on 3/23/12


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\\Are those who depart from thefaith still going to be saved?\\
---francis on 3/22/12


Yes, Francis. Those who depart form the faith will still be saved.

Through all the warnings in the bible, there is not one warning which says that an apostate will go to hell.
---James_L on 3/22/12


francis //1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,

Are those who depart from the faith still going to be saved?
---
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,... Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Make one wonder if the SDA church is an apostate church since they forbid the eating of certain foods since "nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer".
---lee1538 on 3/22/12


1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,

Are those who depart from thefaith still going to be saved?
---francis on 3/22/12


We will always have a choice to live through faith or leave the faith.( We are not robots) Pray for one another.
There is no lose of salvation(life) ever as long as we live through faith. Sin has no more power over you. Christ lives within you. You are free indeed.
---duane on 3/22/12


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Ruben, Galatians 1:6

What did Christ say, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37, here lies the guarantee that "those whom the Father gives to Christ will have eternal life".

So, when you return to Galatians 1:6, those whom Paul was speaking to obviously were not given to Christ though they profess grace. Bottomline, not elected.
---christan on 3/21/12

Christian,

Those that the Father draws to Christ are the ones who listen to the Father and learns from him v45. Some even 'refuse to come to him(Jhn 5:40) and Gal 1:6 tell us even those who 'Have' been call are "so quickly deserting him "..Nice try!
---Ruben on 3/22/12


Ruben, Eph 5:3, Col 3:5, 1 Thess 4:3, where does it says, "if you do not abstain from such sins, you'll loose your salvation"? Where?
---christan on 3/21/12

Let's take a look!

Ephesians 5:2-6: "Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children..But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you


Colossians 3:5 " Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. "

1 Thessalonians 4:3, "For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity"



Question: Why the warning, if the 'elect' can't lose their salvation?
---Ruben on 3/22/12


"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD."
---christan on 3/21/12

Christan as stated already 'WE' have no control over those that he listed. Paul does not say nor fornication,jealousy, selfishness etc.etc can separate us from the love of God, like he does in Gal 5:19-21. Secondly he is telling us about the Love of God', the focus is in the Love of Christ, he(God)does not Love us one day and then hates us the next day!
---Ruben on 3/22/12


"free-will to stay saved", really? Is that what the Scriptures declares? Again, Acts 13:43 context has nothing to do with 'free-will' whatsoever. Maybe 'free-willers' should read carefully, "God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." 1 Corinthians 1:9 - where does it say by your 'free-will'?

"He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it." 1 Thessalonians 5:24, "But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one." 2 Thessalonians 3:3 - the faithfulness of the saint has NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS FREE-WILL but rather the POWER AND FAITHFULNESS OF GOD who works in His people.
---christan on 3/22/12


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Yes, of course. Just as people have the free will to stay saved, or else go back down into Egypt or the world and become condemned in sin and bondage again. The road of salvation is a daily commitment. Today I will serve the Lord, and tomorrow I will serve the Lord, and the day after tomorrow I will serve the Lord, and the day after that I will serve the Lord, all the days of my life I will serve the Lord. And the day we ever choose not to serve the Lord is the day of damnation and falling from grace into darkness.
---Eloy on 3/21/12


Paul taught eternal security in Jesus Christ, meaning in Christ and the grace of God period.

Clearly shown here:

Acts 13:43 "Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God."
---Nana on 3/21/12


Ruben, Eph 5:3, Col 3:5, 1 Thess 4:3, 2 Thess 3:11-14, where does it says, "if you do not abstain from such sins, you'll loose your salvation"? Where? That's because it's not there!

Because, if it was, Paul' teaching in Romans 8:35-38 would have been in contradiction to those you quoted, which is IMPOSSIBLE! Paul taught eternal security in Jesus Christ, meaning election guarantees the sinner salvation.

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD."
---christan on 3/21/12


Ruben, the problem with your understanding is you use one verse and say an elect of God can lose his salvation. Galatians 1:6 if read alone sound that way but is it really that way?

What did Christ say, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37, here lies the guarantee that "those whom the Father gives to Christ will have eternal life".

So, when you return to Galatians 1:6, those whom Paul was speaking to obviously were not given to Christ though they profess grace. Bottomline, not elected.
---christan on 3/21/12


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Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

If it is NEARER and we are WAITING for it. That means we do not yet have it. We claim it be faith :the substance of things HOPED FOR, the evidence of things NOT SEEN.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,
---francis on 3/21/12


He was merely telling us those in that kind of sin, Nothing is said about loosing salvation! You assume!

---christan on 3/19/12

Really:

"But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints."( Eph 5:3)

"Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry."( Col 3:5)

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity,"( 1 Thess 4:3)

"For we hear that some of you are living in idleness, mere busybodies, not doing any work... If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter"( 2 Thess 3:11-14)
---Ruben on 3/20/12


\\We should seek our security in Christ, Who is eternal.\\
---Cluny on 3/20/12

I say AMEN, and
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---James_L on 3/20/12


christan* *It's true what Paul said in Galatians 5:19-21 and his other epistles .

And he is warning Christians, why?

I warn you, as I warned you before"V 21


christan* Did Paul say in Galatians 5:19-21 or anywhere about loosing salvation?

Yes:

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ"( Gal 1:6)

"or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits, whose slaves you want to be once more?"( Gal 4:9)

"stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery"( Gal 5:1)

Just think this is only one book!
---Ruben on 3/20/12


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Find me a single verse in those "list" that speaks about the Christian "loosing his/her salvation after being saved by grace".
---christan on 3/20/12

Ok:

"If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away"

" For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself"( 1 Cor 11:28-29)

"Now these things happened to them as a warning , but they were written down for our instruction , upon whom the end of the ages has come. Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. .( 1 Cor 10:11-12)
---Ruben on 3/20/12


"Nana, open your eyes, ears and heart when reading the "list your Ruben gave". Honestly, what's the context of those verses? About one "loosing their salvation"?"
christan on 3/20/12

You've lost your marbles!
Don't you go around saying that it is God who opens eyes, ears and heart?
Why are you telling me to open them? Are you God?

God, speaks to sinful man ant tells him 'change'.
That simple: Isaiah 1:16_17 Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes, cease to do evil,
Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."

You don't believe in that God right?
---Nana on 3/20/12


\\Though I believe every believer is eternally secure,\\

We should seek our security in Christ, Who is eternal.

Alas, too many people seek their security in their own past act of faith.

NOT the same things.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/20/12


\\For I am persuaded, that [nothing] shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord....Romans 8:35-39\\
---christan on 3/19/12

Though I believe every believer is eternally secure,
Romans 8 is not the place to find support for the doctrine. Being squarely in the context of suffering, it is God's great promise that during times of trials and tribulations, He will not abandon us.

It is akin to God saying "I will never leave you nor forsake you"
---James_L on 3/20/12


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Nana, open your eyes, ears and heart when reading the "list your Ruben gave". Honestly, what's the context of those verses? About one "loosing their salvation"? Ya, right.

The context of those verses merely declares to us how sinful mankind is and outside the grace of God, everyone is going to hell. But thank God for His grace through faith in Jesus Christ, His elect will be going to His kingdom.

Find me a single verse in those "list" that speaks about the Christian "loosing his/her salvation after being saved by grace". Those verses are not even near the context of one "loosing their salvation".

Brilliant isn't it? Praise the Lord for His mercy and grace.
---christan on 3/20/12


one can die in the delivery process.
---aka on 3/20/12


Cluny, God hates Sweden. There is even a website about that (so it must be true).
---Pat.pat on 3/19/12


"Christan,

Look at the list that Paul gives:..."

Ruben on 3/19/12

Brilliant!
---Nana on 3/19/12


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Ruben, as usual always you quote Scriptures with total lack of understanding of salvation by grace. It's true what Paul said in Galatians 5:19-21 and his other epistles, which basically says NO ONE will go to heaven but outside of the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Did Paul say in Galatians 5:19-21 or anywhere about loosing salvation? It's your godless concoction. He was merely telling us those in that kind of sin, unless by the Father's grace will not inherit the kingdom. Nothing is said about loosing salvation! You assume!

If your understanding is right, King Solomon should be burning in hell BUT he isn't! Why? Because God loved him and decided to save him by grace.
---christan on 3/19/12


backsliders?
hypocrits?
false teachers?
antichrists?
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
--The adopted of God?
Numbers 16:5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who [are] his, and [who is] holy, and will cause [him] to come near unto him: even [him] whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.
-Are you a sheep...or just look like one?
---micha9344 on 3/19/12


nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature," Romans 8:35-39
--christan on 3/19/12

Christan,

Look at the list that Paul gives:

Death and Life, Angels and Demons, Present and Future, Powers, Height and Depth, nor any creature. All of which God created and we humans have no control over them. But notice the list he gives that we have control of, that will separate us from God.

"fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, . I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."( Gal 5:19-21)
---Ruben on 3/19/12


\\Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?\\

Is there anyone whom Christ does NOT love?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/19/12


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//Once in Christ and never out. No!

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Does not this question go all the way back to the view that one can save himself?

That salvation is wholly of God, not of ourselves?

That it is our works that are necessary for our salvation?

That we can earn or do enough to merit our eternal salvation?
---lee1538 on 3/19/12


Jesus came to take away sin and in Him is no sin. No you can't lose your salvation but you can throw it away. If you sin you serve the Devil not God Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death,but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:6 knowing this,that our old man is crucified with Him,that the body of sin might be destroyed that henceforth we should not serve sin. Either we make God our Master and not sin which equals salvation,or we sin and serve the Devil who is master of those who sin. Its our choice,we can't have it both ways.
---Darlene_1 on 3/19/12


"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 8:35-39

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:6
---christan on 3/19/12


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