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Follow All Of God's Laws

Is man born into this world with the ability to follow all of Gods laws?

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 ---Blogger9680 on 3/21/12
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Athiest, what we see that God has done through time, is what the writers were inspired to write. God is outside of time. The writers of Scripture wrote what God wanted them to write through history. And what we see is, that God had a purpose from the very beginning. And His plan has unfolded for all of us to see and understand how He has dealed with sin all through history. At times He destroyed nations, other times He helped them. But all with a future purpose. It was His plan not mind or yours. You might not like some of the things done through history but let me say, to understand them, you would have to have the mind of God, but you don't even believe by faith in God, and we cannot make you understand. God has to change your heart.
---Mark_V. on 3/31/12


A theist: Sounds good to me! Let's stone all the atheists.


---jerry6593 on 3/31/12


Atheist, I answered this to you before, do you not recall? The old testament, ministry of death, is abolished: and the New Testament, ministry of life, is currently inforce.
---Eloy on 3/31/12


Do these still apply?:


Deu 13:6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,'

Deu 13:8 "you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him,....your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

Deu 13:10 "And you shall stone him with stones until he dies,...

If you understand them, then don't you have to follow them?
And if you don't are you not ignoring them?
---atheist on 3/30/12


//So what parts of the bible are ignored because they are wrong.// ---atheist on 3/30/12

there are no parts ignored because they are wrong. they are understood in the context of the time and place because they are history...a progression...a revelation of the salvation in Jesus Christ.
---aka on 3/30/12




So what parts of the bible are ignored because they are wrong.
---atheist on 3/30/12


In his own power - NO!

With Christ on the throne of his heart - YES!


---jerry6593 on 3/30/12


Blogger96, total depravity in the Bible really means corruption. Man is not utterly depraved. To be utterly depraved is to be as wicked as one could possibly be. Hitler was depraved, but he could have been worse than he was. Radical corruption is a better term. The original meaning of 'radical' comes from the latin word of "root" or "core." Our problem with sin is that it is rooted in the core of our being. It permeates our hearts. Sin is at our core.
"There is none righteous, no, not one, there is none who understands, there is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside, they have together become unprofitable, there is none who does good, no, not one"
---Mark_V. on 3/30/12


Atheist, I answered this to you before, do you not recall? The old testament, ministry of death, is abolished: and the New Testament, ministry of life, is currently inforce.
---Eloy on 3/29/12


atheist, i think your Victrola is skipping. no matter what answer you get, you keep asking.

they came from Deuteronomy. there were no christians then. this is not a christian practice.

there are some pretty gruesome practices currently in the middle east.
---aka on 3/29/12




Is this question too hard?


Do these still apply?:


Deu 13:6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,'

Deu 13:8 "you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him,....your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

Deu 13:10 "And you shall stone him with stones until he dies,...
---atheist on 3/29/12


If man was able to follow all 10 of Gods laws then there would be no need for Christ

Holy Scripture would be lie upon lie and Apostles lied when they stated the only man who was ever without sin was Christ

True Believers begin to overcome their carnal self once they are baptized and are given Gods Holy Spirit

It is Gods Holy Spirit that HELPS to GUIDE a True Believer to obey

all of mankind was born with a carnal mind which is hostile to Gods Laws and carnal minds are not subject to Gods Laws
---Rhonda on 3/29/12


francis:

The Bible also doesn't say he isn't an alien from Mars, but do you seriously consider that as a possiblity just because it isn't excluded? I don't.

The Bible doesn't say he was a follower of John or Jesus, for if he was, what was he doing stealing in the first place? Whenever one's theories require one to make many assumptions about what is not written, it means that perhaps one's theories are too convoluted.
---StrongAxe on 3/28/12


francis: STOP assuming what the Scripture does not say, rather concentrate on what is already declared. The Scripture provided to you in Matthew 27:43,44 clearly tells us it was "thieves" and not "thief" who were mocking Christ.

It's clear why we have Scriptures speaking of the thief that was saved on the cross next to Christ, showing us one instance of him mocking and next (in Luke 23:39-43) all contrite and repentant of his sins to Christ.

To tell us that salvation is 100% grace.

All else you are saying is adding on to the Scriptures which comes with a curse. "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."
---christan on 3/28/12


My final post on this subject of the thief on the cross:

I think it would only be wise to consider the posibility:
1: That he may have been baptized by John or by Jesus' disciples before he commited that crime
2: That he knew of and about Jesus and had accepted the message " repent for the kingdom of God is at hand"
3: He was a God fearing man who knew that this Jesus would die and rise again and recieve an eternal kingdom
4: And that he knew all this BEFORE he was on the cross
---francis on 3/27/12


Matthew 27:42 He saved others, himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. He trusted in God, let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Nothing in there about a kingdom to be inherited by Jesus.
How did this thief know about and believe in this coming kingdom?
What is the basis for the thief to believe that Jesus had saved others?
What is the basis for the thief to believe that Jesus was the son of God?
What is the basis for the thief to believe that Jesus was king of israel?
What is the basis for the thief to believe that rusted in God?
---francis on 3/27/12


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Yes christan that is exactly how I know.
As always God bless
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/26/12


Is this question too hard?


Do these still apply?:


Deu 13:6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,'

Deu 13:8 "you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him,....your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

Deu 13:10 "And you shall stone him with stones until he dies,...
---atheist on 3/26/12


"lets face it. The bible simple is silent about this man until he is on the cross." francis

Silent the Bible isn't. Blind, you are. Here, read again.

Matthew 27:43,44, "He trusted in God, let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth." - No need to assume, at this point the "thieves" were mocking Christ, while hanging on the cross.

How could he have been converted prior when he was mocking Christ? So, between this time and Luke 23:39-43, his heart was changed by the Spirit to confess his sin and faith in Christ. This is salvation by grace! Or are you still blind?
---christan on 3/26/12


lets face it. The bible simple is silent about this man until he is on the cross.

All we know about him is that he was a criminal, and he feared God, accepted his responsibility for what he did, knew that Jesus had done nothing wrong, knew that Jesus would die and yet arise amd inherit a kingdom, knew that Jesus had to power to grant him a place in the kingdom.

If you have more that that ALL I ASK is book chapter and verse
---francis on 3/26/12


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A funny thing you should use that chapter and verse!
Read the very next verse:
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co_1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

You really do believe a man is baptized by another man, dont you?
The very reason I gave you Mat_21:25!
No! Only God can baptize a man.
But you dont see that!
---TheSeg on 3/26/12


francis, to begin with, you underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit in the conversion of the sinner. Did I say I believed "the thief learned all that he knew about Jesus and the kingdom that would come while on the cross."?

You put words in my mouth even after I showed you in Matthew 27:44,45 that the "thieves" were reviling Christ to contradict your "guess" and you dare ask me, "I BET YOU HAVE NO SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT THAT"? Well, let me ask you back, do you have Scripture to support what you assumed? Do you?

You have nothing! Just hot air...
---christan on 3/26/12


francis, why do you say I failed at my argument.
Did you think I was going to change your mind?
---TheSeg on 3/26/12

I thought you had a text like this: 1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas

you know, a text with the name of the thief and who baptized him
---francis on 3/26/12


Whether man has the ability to follow all of God's laws is really debateable as probably no one can understand what all the laws are and their nature.

However, there are laws not binding on the church today that are found in the Old Testament. Things such as physical circumcision, the Levitical dietary laws, the Sabbath and other observances.

And yes Jerry boy, you have my permission to light a fire in your home on the Sabbath as such a law is found ONLY in the Old Covenant dispensation. Exodus 35:3.
---lee1538 on 3/26/12


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francis, why do you say I failed at my argument.
Did you think I was going to change your mind?

Like I said from the beginning, right nana!

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Joh 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

You and Nana, don't believe this either.
Because you are in the world and you are not!

Well that about, sums it up for me, unless you guys want to add something.
I'm sure you do. Lets see if I'm right.
God bless you
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/26/12


---TheSeg on 3/25/12
well, in your entire arguement you failed to show that this thief was not baptized by John or jesus' disciples.

The fact is: We just do not know whether or not he was baptized, because the bible does not say

There is nothing wrong with saying we do not know. If anyone knew for sue, they would have posted a textthat says he either was or was not.
---francis on 3/26/12


\\If you knew the Bible, you would knot that this is BEFORE Jesus gave the commandment to be baptized.
---Cluny on 3/25/12

What book chapter and verse\\

I guess that Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16a are not in your Bible. The context shows that these words were said at the Ascension, which was AFTER the Crucifixion.

I knew you had a Bible with a great big hole in it, francis, but I didn't you had little holes throughout the Gospels in your Bible as well.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/26/12


francis, I can tell you for a certainty the thief on the cross was not baptized.
By either John or by Jesus' disciples

I could ask you the same, Mat_21:25

Now it says heaven, yet you know for a certainty its God.
How do you know this? Did someone teach you this?

You ask
When did he learn! You know, you are saying someone must teach you!
Before you can accept it, and youre right.
Here again you have your answer.

1Jn_2:27 says, ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things

But so much more it says
And is truth, and is no lie!
Even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/25/12


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If you knew the Bible, you would knot that this is BEFORE Jesus gave the commandment to be baptized.
---Cluny on 3/25/12

What book chapter and verse

That is what I am asking

What book chapter and verse did you get that from?

How sure are you that he was not baptized by John?

How sure are you that he was not baptized by Jesus' disciples?

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Fact is we just do not know because the bible does not say. It may be best for you just to admit that the bible does not say.
---francis on 3/25/12


//The true church, which is Orthodoxy, doesn't guess.

Cluny is right and that is why I attend an Orthodox Presbyterian church.

By definition those that are orthodox are those that follow " traditional doctrine: following the established or traditional rules of a political or religious belief, a philosophy, or a way of life."

But I am not sure of those Eastern Orthodox churches as they seemed more drenched in ritual than in study of Gods word. Ratting of beads or kissing icons really does little if anyone for the Christian walk.
---lee1538 on 3/25/12


\\Show me from scripture when this thief on the cross was baptized.\\

If you knew the Bible, you would knot that this is BEFORE Jesus gave the commandment to be baptized.

\\When did he learn and accept that Jesus was Lord?\\

If you knew the Bible, you would know this verse, too:

Luke 23:42
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

But since you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God, francis, you err frequently.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/25/12


Do these still apply?:


Deu 13:6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,'

Deu 13:8 "you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him,....your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

Deu 13:10 "And you shall stone him with stones until he dies,...
---atheist on 3/25/12


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both heineous sins in Judaism as well as in Adventism.
if Ellen White has been living in those days, she could have straighten Jesus out on this issues!
---lee1538 on 3/25/12

You have an inferiority complex.
You see ellen G white and SDA in everything

the theif on the cross was most likely a Jew. One who Reverenced / feared God, one who knew of the coming kingdom, one who knew of the prophecy of the death and resurrection of Jesus, one who knew Jesus as lord.

I can understand how you would say he is SDA, his doctrine was 100% correct that Jesus would rise from the dead and inherit a kingdom


YOU NEED MENTAL HELP
---francis on 3/25/12


The true church, which is Orthodoxy, doesn't guess.

She KNOWS and believes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/25/12
LOL LOL Show me from scripture when this thief on the cross was baptized.
Was he baptized by John or by Jesus' disciples?
When did he learn about the kingdom to come?
When did he learn and accept that Jesus was Lord?
---francis on 3/25/12


//you believe the thieflearned all that he knew about Jesus and the kingdom that would come while on the cross.

The fact that Jesus granted salvation to the thief on the Cross tells us that one may be saved eternally apart from works of the law. Who knows, he may not even have observed the OT Sabbath and even ate bacon for breakfast - both heineous sins in Judaism as well as in Adventism.

Of course, Jesus did not know what He was talking about when He told us we become defiled by what comes out of the heart, not what goes into the stomach. Mt. 15, Mk. 7. Of course, if Ellen White has been living in those days, she could have straighten Jesus out on this issues!
---lee1538 on 3/25/12


James 3:11 "Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?"

James 3:9_10 "Therewith bless we God, even the Father, and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be."

All men have spirit. Mark 14:38 "Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is
---Nana on 3/25/12


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Your "guess" then is wrong based on Scripture evidence.
---christan on 3/25/12
LOL LOL LOL you believe the thieflearned all that he knew about Jesus and the kingdom that would come while on the cross.

I BET YOU HAVE NO SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT THAT

and you have no scripture to show that he was never baptized
you have no scripture to show when he received the holy ghost
---francis on 3/25/12


\\"My guess is that he learned all this BEFORE he was on the cross." francis\\

The true church, which is Orthodoxy, doesn't guess.

She KNOWS and believes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/25/12


"My guess is that he learned all this BEFORE he was on the cross." francis

Precisely, a "guess" is an assumption, which is not based on facts. So, don't "guess". This is is what Matthew 27:44,45 says "He trusted in God, let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth."

And the thieves were already hanging on the cross with Christ at this time. Between this time and Luke 23:43 (which was not very long in time), one was converted by the Spirit while the other wasn't.

Your "guess" then is wrong based on Scripture evidence.
---christan on 3/25/12


"blinding/delusion comes as a result of unbelief. That is written in Romans and 2 Thes. Im surprised that you dont appear to know that." Blogger 9860

Really? Let's read 2 Thessalonians 2:10, "...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." What love is Paul talking about? The love of God!

Verse 11,12: "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Even the delusion is from God, Paul declares. Unbelief is the result of God not loving one to start with and not the other way round. And you claim you know? Know what?
---christan on 3/25/12


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//This thief on the cross, likely knew the prophecies, knew about Jesus, accepted Jesus as messiah
The fact that he knows that Jesus is lord, jesus will die and yet inherit a kingdom, and that Jesus can save him, //

The thief knew, but the 12 didn't?

Luke 18:31Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them,..
---michael_e on 3/25/12


(Look for the truth)
---TheSeg on 3/25/12

Luke 9:54_56: "And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."

Likewise, do you know what manner of spirit are you of, TheSeg?
---Nana on 3/25/12


Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (Only by his Spirit!)

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me!

(Look for the truth)
---TheSeg on 3/25/12


Fact is the bible never says when this theif first believed.

He appears one time on the cross knowing that Jesus is Lord, knowing that Jesus would die and recieve a kingdom, and confessing his reverance (fear) for God.

My guess is that he learned all this BEFORE he was on the cross.

My point is: This thief on the cross, likely knew the prophecies, knew about Jesus, accepted Jesus as messiah long before he commited that crime which landed him on the cross.

There were many jews who were rebelious against the Romans in those days He was one of them.

The fact that he knows that Jesus is lord, jesus will die and yet inherit a kingdom, and that Jesus can save him, tells a lot about his faith in God and Jesus.
---francis on 3/25/12


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"Show me the scripture which says he received the holy ghost" francis

"Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:65

So what has to be "given unto him"? "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." How is this possible? "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Obviously being "born of the Spirit" comes first before you can belief in Christ not the other way round as you claim. Guess what? You are believing in a false gospel, a gospel of 'free-will'.
---christan on 3/24/12


Christan, blinding/delusion comes as a result of unbelief. That is written in Romans and 2 Thes. Im surprised that you dont appear to know that.

All those statistics are useless because each one of us were of a pagan belief about God or of no belief at all before we came to Christ. We were "blind" them. We were lost. People from all religions come to Jesus Christ on a daily basis.

Also could you please tone it down some? The hostility is unappreciated. I dont believe I have judged you as lost or insulted your faith in Christ so I expect the same in return. We are discussing doctrinal differences not different religions.
---Blogger9680 on 3/25/12


Now I ask!
When did he receive the Holy Spirit, before or after he confesses?
Show me the scripture which says he received the holy ghost
---francis on 3/24/12


Infants do not have the ability to follow all of Gods laws, because first they have to learn to walk before they can follow.
---Eloy on 3/24/12


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"I have read nowhere in scripture where anyone was blinded to faith in Christ. The Jews stumbled over faith in Christ because they sought to be justified by the law and their heritage." Blogger9680

You seriously think that ONLY THE JEWS are blinded to Christ? Here, chew on this present statistic: there's 1.3 billion chinese that's buddhist, 1.6 billion indians that's hindus, probably another 1.5 billion muslims, 1.3 billion romans catholics, not to mention the other denominations of faith. Do these multitudes believe in Jesus? And you seriously think that ONLY THE JEWS are blinded to Christ?

Goodness gracious! I rest my case about the "faith" you claim to have in Chris.
---christan on 3/24/12


"And if we are Christians we should be an example of what is good, otherwise we really have no testimony." lee1538

So, is your "testimony" related to bringing attention to yourself or to Jesus Christ? The only true testimony the Christian have is they have been saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, which he must witness and testify - not of or about themself.

Even the buddhist, hindus, muslims and every religions of the world have more good works than the Christian. But they don't have salvation in Christ.

Jesus said,"I receive not honour from men. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?" John 5:41,44
---christan on 3/24/12


This throw say truly! We dont know!

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

What Paul is saying here is very clear!
Backup by Christ saying unless the father draws you!

But, you guys would have me believe. A man who truly has the Spirit of God can go round robbing people.
This man was a thief on the cross, on that very day!
For the bible its self calls him a one!
And on that very day he was taken to paradise!

But, I guess you just dont know.
May you find the answer you seek!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/24/12


So again I ask!
When did he receive the Holy Spirit, before or after he confesses?
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/24/12

we do not know
In the bible some people received the holy ghost immediately after baptism Acts 19: When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus...the Holy Ghost came on them, and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Some before they were baptized:

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Some several days later Acts 8:16 For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

As to the theif on the cross the bible does not say
---francis on 3/24/12


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francis
We do not have the names of the people whom John baptized except for Jesus.
Act_1:5 For John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

We do not have a list of the people whom Jesus disciples baptized.
Act_8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THIS:




Because Christ said:
Joh_3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So again I ask!
When did he receive the Holy Spirit, before or after he confesses?
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/24/12


Thanks francis.:)

"Never heard of one "born of water"."

"As it is written, "without faith it is impossible to please Him".
Sure, and "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Jesus went about teaching, preaching and healing, Matthew 9:35.

Ephesians 5:26 "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,"
1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
The true water: "the answer of a good conscience toward God".
---Nana on 3/24/12


Christan - Seems to me that if you want to avoid being disciplined by the Lord, you should at least be as moral as you can be.

While our righteousness does not count toward our salvation, there is a great practicality in doing the right thing.

And if we are Christians we should be an example of what is good, otherwise we really have no testimony.
---lee1538 on 3/23/12


Christan, you said "The Christian is only righteous in Christ by faith and the world is blinded to that"

I have read nowhere in scripture where anyone was blinded to faith in Christ. The Jews stumbled over faith in Christ because they sought to be justified by the law and their heritage. For that reason they are blind to who Jesus Christ is but God is very clear that if they do not continue in unbelief He will graft them back into the tree again. Do you have any examples in scripture of where God has blinded anyone to faith in Christ?
---Blogger9680 on 3/23/12


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We do not have the names of the people whom John baptized except for Jesus. We do not have a list of the people whom Jesus disciples baptized. So we do not know if the theif on the cross had been baptized or not.

WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THIS:
Luke 23:40
WE KNOW THAT HE WAS A GOD FEARING MAN who had commited a crime

Luke 23:41
HE TOOK RESPONSIBLILITY for his action, and KNEW that this Jesus had done nothing wrong.

Luke 23:42
HE KNEW THAT JEWUS WAS LORD, and that Jesus would die, and yet rise again and inherit a kingdom

THIS THEIF WAS A MAN OF FAITH
and unlike the disciples believed that Jesus would rise again and inherit a kingdom
---francis on 3/23/12


He was born of water there.
Nana on 3/23/12

So, no spirit there, forgive me, Im just asking?

Because Christ said:
Joh_3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Maybe this is just paradise and not heaven.

But anyway nana, when you say:
The thief with a contrite heart came clean, (let's stop right here)
How did he become clean?

Did he confess his faults, first!
Or was he made clear first, and able to confess his faults?
---TheSeg on 3/24/12


No!
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Man would not even know God. If not for God showing man that it is God.
Dont the laws themselves prove to you, you cannot do them?

He even simplified them, to love each other and till we cant.
Not that you wouldnt want to, but that the world wont let you.

Joh_15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own:
but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Joh_7:7 because I testify of it!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/24/12


"He was born of water there." Nana

What you mean is he was "born of the Spirit" at that point, that's why he repented to Christ before he died, right? Never heard of one "born of water". How are you "born of water"? FYI, 'water' in spiritual regeneration is symbolic to 'cleansing' by the Spirit.

The thief on the cross was a classic example of salvation by grace 100% of God, 0% man. God does not forgive the sinner unless He gives the sinner His precious "gift of faith", and that only happens after He gives the sinner life by means of spiritual birth, aka regeneration. As it is written, "without faith it is impossible to please Him".
---christan on 3/24/12


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Once again I agree with 'christian.' Unrighteous living is far better.
---Pat.pat on 3/23/12


"And what "righteous living" did the thief on the cross with Christ had to show before he was taken to Paradise?"
christan on 3/23/12

The thief with a contrite heart came clean, confesed his faults and defended the inocence of our Lord. "Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, ..."

He was born of water there.

Jesus said, "Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit, so shall ye be my disciples."
Paul said, Romans 11:22 "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity, but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

But you are free to live as you wish.
---Nana on 3/23/12


What Im asking is if you believe man has the ability to follow Gods laws in his natural state and therefore God is JUST for condemning him in his natural state.

Is it just to condemn a legless man for not being able to run in a race?

Dont misunderstand me please. If a man is offered NEW legs to run that race and he refuses then is he not held accountable?
---Blogger9680 on 3/23/12


"True we do not follow the law for our salvation but for the practicality of righteous living." lee1538

Maybe you should be reminded that some, like King Solomon went against this understanding you have. And what "righteous living" did the thief on the cross with Christ had to show before he was taken to Paradise?

We must be very careful when we make such remarks especially if we claim to believe in salvation by grace 100%. Learn from Paul when he proclaimed, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Romans 7:24

The Christian is only righteous in Christ by faith and the world is blinded to that.
---christan on 3/23/12


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christan //Still want to depend on the law for salvation? Then Paul says, you're cursed.
---
True we do not follow the law for our salvation but for the practicality of righteous living.

1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.
---lee1538 on 3/23/12


"For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:14,15

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Romans 5:12

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." Galatians 3:10

Still want to depend on the law for salvation? Then Paul says, you're cursed.
---christan on 3/23/12


Aka, I had no idea of those stats you quoted. You're done your homework. Anyway, you seem to like it around here and have stayed a long time.
---Pat.pat on 3/23/12


The blog question sounds rhetorical. There's some other question behind it. What is that question? ---Pat.pat on 3/21/12

99% of the questions on here are leading or bleeding.

75% of those are to challenge the deity of Jesus Christ or to redefine Jesus.
---aka on 3/22/12


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Innately man cannot achieve perfection, but under the irresistible grace of God the Father, his pre-chosen Elect can approach the asymptote of perfection of Christ. The grace of YHWH grows in each of his elect in accordance with their ability learn more of God's nature and follow the plan He has for them. That is why the Grace of God is a vectorial component, YHWH's grace grows so it has magnitude and YHWH's plan for their lives has direction. And the combination of magnitude and direction is a vector.
---Blogger9211 on 3/22/12


Deu 13:6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,'

Deu 13:8 "you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him,....your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

Deu 13:10 "And you shall stone him with stones until he dies,...


It's good for me that I, you, and a pile of rocks are not in the same place at the same time. Right Jury?
---atheist on 3/22/12


Deuteronomy 11:1_2: "Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
And know ye this day: for I speak not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen the chastisement of the LORD your God, his greatness, his mighty hand, and his stretched out arm,"

See "for I speak not with your children which have not known", there is a child and there be a man and the latter is the end of the former (God willing).
Even as Paul said,
1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
---Nana on 3/22/12


I rather doubt if anyone can come to a full understanding of all of God's laws and some of these laws (especially of the Old Testament) would be meaningful only to those to whom it is addressed.

Then you have the problem of differentiating laws in one dispensation with those of another. Take for instance, the laws governing circumcision or the Sabbath given only to the nation of Israel.

Moral law, on the other hand, appears to be inherent and can be followed if one has a conscience that is not seared. Romans 2:14.
---lee1538 on 3/22/12


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The blog question sounds rhetorical. There's some other question behind it. What is that question?
---Pat.pat on 3/21/12


Only Adam was born a Man. The rest come into this world a babe with only the ability to cry and soil their pants.
However, Scripture suggests:
Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

So, 'man'is born with the capacity to be trained, to learn (John 8:28, John 6:45), and to carry out that which was learned.
Of course it was to discerning human beings (not babes still) that God suggested, "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the

fatherless, plead for the widow."
---Nana on 3/22/12


Not since Adam bit the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
---Trish on 3/21/12


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