ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Born Again With No Sin

Some suggest that once a person is born again he cannot sin. Is it possible to still sin and be born again? I say they do sin, they say they don't. Give Scripture.

Join Our Free Chat and Take The Sin & Repentance Quiz
 ---Mark_V. on 3/27/12
     Helpful Blog Vote (2)

Post a New Blog



Haz27//I have ask if your in CAPTIVITY to the law of SIN (Rom 7:23) and you have not answered this.

Do you serve the law of sin with your flesh like Paul claimed or are you a super Christian totally free from sin of both the mind and flesh?

Romans 7:23-25 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Apparently in believing you are sinless, you really miss the mark and the truth is not in you. 1 John 1:8
---lee1538 on 3/31/12


christan said: "we repent everyday to God till He comes to bring us "home""

"REPENT EVERY DAY" ???

Repent means to turn away from the offence/STOP doing it. If we're repenting EVERY DAY then we never really repented to begin with.

BUT, we see in Heb 6:1 repentance is from "DEAD WORKS".
What are these DEAD WORKS?
It's works of the law.
Rom7:5 "when we WERE in the FLESH, the motions of sin, WHICH WAS BY THE LAW, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death".

Establishing righteousness through law means not submitting to the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3

This is unbelief John16:9. Christians HAVE repented. Theres NO MORE REPENTANCE NOW.
---Haz27 on 3/31/12


\\Footnote New Scofield Study Bible NAS.\\
---lee1538 on 3/31/12

Here is an interesting comment:
. . . the 'tense solution' in 1 John 1:9 is in the process of imploding in the current literature. It was shrewdly questioned by C. H. Dodd in his commentary in 1946 and dealt a major blow by S. Kubo in an article entitled, "1 John 3:9: Absolute or Habitual?" published in 1969. It has since been given up by the three major critical commentaries published since Kubo's article, namely, I. Howard Marshall (1978), Raymond E. Brown (1982), and Stephen S. Smalley (1984). It seems quite clear that the
'tense solution' as applied to 1 John 1:9 is an idea whose time has come - and gone!

Zane Hodges, "The Epistles"
---James_L on 3/31/12


Mark you said
//it's the sins being burned//
The Bible says
//"If anyone's work is burned,"//
One statement is Biblical, one is not.
There is such a thing as good works. Works and sin are not the same word. Perhaps you need an editor instead of a commentary.
---michael_e on 3/31/12


lee1538: It's clear that you do not understand this issue of whether Christians "sin". You have been unable to justify it with scripture and your fallback is your trust in those brief and incorrectly justified Bible commentaries that offer no support for the doctrine you follow.

I have ask if your in "CAPTIVITY to the law of SIN" (Rom 7:23) and you have not answered this.

You quote many scriptures out of context and when exposed on this you remain silent.

You have been unable to show from scripture that Christians remain in sin in spite of the cross. You have only demonstrated to us your trust in man's traditions/commentaries.
---Haz27 on 3/31/12




"Even satan can quote scripture." duane

Only "Faith from God" sets the Christian apart from satan and "his children". "Faith from God" does not tell us while alive in this flesh, you're sinless. We know that the sinless part is the spirit man that's "born of the Holy Spirit".

"Dont deny your new life and call yourself a sinner."

Who's denying the "new life" in Christ only through regeneration? Sinner, we still are while we're alive in the flesh but by faith, we repent everyday to God till He comes to bring us "home". I hope you don't walk around telling others you're no more a sinner because you're a Christian.
---christan on 3/31/12


James_L asked: "So we were sinful, then all things become new, yet we're still sinful ??? How does that work ??"

This question continues to remain unanswered by those who claim Christians continue in sin in spite of the cross. Such doctrines claim that Christians are in "CAPTIVITY to the law of sin" (Rom 7:23). The few scriptures they do offer are always out of context and contradict other scriptures. These people do however trust in man's traditions and Bible commentaries as an assurance that Christians still sin in spite of the obvious contradiction to God's word.

These blog discussions have shown that Christ truly set us free from sin (John8:36). We cannot sin (1John3:9). Trust God when He says this.
---Haz27 on 3/31/12


Haz27 - you will have to convict me against all the facts, that the modern translators of the Bible were wrong and that you really know more than they do.

In regard to 1 John 3:9, the following footnote really tells the truth that Christians are capable of sin.

[Here and in similar places in this Epistle the Greek verb has the force of a continuous present tense (cp. 3:6, 5:18) and thus denotes a person's habitual attitude towards sin as expressed in his practice of or non-practice of it. John is not speaking of a state of perfection in which is impossible for a Christian ever to sin, but he is stressing the fact a Christian cannot keep on practicing sin, bec he is born of God.] Footnote New Scofield Study Bible NAS.
---lee1538 on 3/31/12


Michael e, you say more biblical? What can be more biblical then the Word of God? You just didn't want to do the work as usual just complain as always.
"Now if anyone builds in this foundation (Christ Jesus) with gold silver and precious stones, wood, hay, straw, "each one's work will become clear, for the Day (this is the Day of the Lord) will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire, "and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. "If anyone's work is buned," he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire"
---Mark_V. on 3/31/12


lee1538: We've gone full circle and now your back onto taking 1John1:8 out of context as you did Heb 12, Rom 7, Gal 5, etc.

Scripture confirms scripture but you have been unable to show from scripture that Christians remain in sin in spite of the cross.
Even on your "habitual sin" doctrine you turned to contradictions even in an effort to somehow make it seem plausible.

All this should ring warning bells to you. It's time to stop trusting in man's traditions/commentaries and trust in God instead (1John2:27).
---Haz27 on 3/31/12




Mark,
When one claims to being born again, that person has a new identity,a new life. Thats what being a Christian is. We are dead to sin and alive. If we are alive to sin then we are dead and have no salvation. HE put away sin so we can live. There is no purpose for a new life if we yet claim to be sinners. If you base your salvation on what your flesh does, you will lose. Its what HE has done for you. HE set you free and gave you a new life, not a sinners life.
Sin is of satan. Being set free from sin is of Jesus Christ. Dont deny your new life and call yourself a sinner.
---duane on 3/31/12


lee1538: You continue to argue for the "habitual" sin version of 1John3:6-9 without any scriptural support for it. Scripture confirms scripture. What other scriptures support your view?

And what of your contradiction saying that Christians who smoke are in "habitual" sin but then you claim they are not "of the devil" as 1John3:8 says. This is contradiction.

1John3:4 defines sin as "transgression of the law" BUT Christians are not under it (Rom 8:2, 1Tim 1:9). Therefore we cannot be accused of transgression/sin (Rom 4:15).
The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Rom 8:4) because his seed (Christ) is in us.
This is why 1John3:9 says we "cannot sin"
---Haz27 on 3/31/12


\\who said there would be sin in heaven?\\
Mark V

I was saying that since we agree that no sin can enter heaven, when do you believe that your sin will be removed?

\\Judgment Seat of Christ where their sins will be burned and rewards are given.\\

Sins burned ???

\\where do you think this judgments takes place at?\\

At the Judgment Seat of Christ, when He Reigns as King of Kings

\\We can now enjoy the presence of Christ in this life because of the spiritual rebirth.\\

What do mean by "spiritual rebirth" if you're not yet born spiritually ???

So we were sinful, then all things become new, yet we're still sinful ??? How does that work ??
---James_L on 3/31/12


Christian,
I meant, JUST READING verses of scripture that can lead us off our foundation.(Context in scripture is everything) Even satan can quote scripture.
We had better be sure scripture leads to good and to our foundation which is Christ Jesus. Prayer is essential, not just reading.
---duane on 3/31/12


//We are told that all believers go to the Judgment Seat of Christ" where their sins will be burned..//
It's not the Judgement seat I was asking about, it's the sins being burned. Possibly you got that from a commentary or your thoughts. Try being a little more biblical.
---michael_e on 3/31/12


// Sinless men are deceived with no truth. 1 John 1:8,9

And that is the problem with the spiritual blind.

1 John 1:8 If we (John is speaking to other Christians) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The sinful 'sinless' crowd rail aginst the testimony of God's saints and make a mockery of God's Word.

Those that are in sin will never admit they are in sin since the truth is not in them.
---lee1538 on 3/31/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Software


1 John 3:6-9ESV No one who abides in him keeps on sinning, no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for Gods seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

We rely on those teachers that Lord has given His church who are more skilled in the Word of God and the Greek from which it is translated than we are for our interpretation.
---lee1538 on 3/31/12


KJV John 3:6-8
born of the flesh is flesh, born of the Spirit is spirit.

One cannot be Spirit in the flesh. The Lord was raised from death to Spirit and so it will be for mortal men to die then be raised up from death and born again to Spirit life during the resurrection of all when the Followers of the Lord will be born again and made alive (not to flesh) but to Spirit 1 Corin 15:44. Flesh and blood is imperfect and cannot change and flesh will die Heb 9:27. Sinless men are deceived with no truth. 1 John 1:8,9

~humble follower of the Rock and lover of The Eternals truth (KJV) Matt 16:18, Corin 10:4, 2 Thess 2:10 1 Pet 2:21
---Follower_of_Christ on 3/31/12


"We dont build on verses of scripture that lead us off our foundation. We must be careful." duane

First of all, there's NO such thing as "scripture that lead us of our foundation". It's only through Scriptures that we build our house on rocks and not sand. What "leads the man off his foundation" is his own understanding, especially when he misuse verses and teach otherwise. Classic case, 1 John 3:9.

Ever wondered why this epistle is almost at the tail-end of the Bible? It's after most of Paul's epistles when he taught us about the tripartite man - body, soul and spirit. If this is not applied to 1 John 3:9 - the result is precisely your kind of teaching, danger to your soul.
---christan on 3/31/12


Michel e, you will find it in Scripture. Do a little work for yourself. It will help you study the Word of God. I will give you a few hints so you can start, (1 and 2 Corinthians: Rom. 14 ) peace.
---Mark_V. on 3/31/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Advertising


//We are told that all believers go to the Judgment Seat of Christ" where their sins will be burned..//

Where do you find this?
---michael_e on 3/31/12


1 John 3:4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Here and in similar places in this Epistle the Greek verb has the force of a continuous present tense (cp. 3:6, 5:18) and thus denotes a person's habitual attitude towards sin as expressed in his practice of or non-practice of it. John is not speaking of a state of perfection in which it is impossible for a Christian ever to sin, but he is stressing the fact a Christian cannot keep on practicing sin, because he is born of God. Footnote New Scofield Study Bible NAS.
---lee1538 on 3/31/12


"It is our being in Christ that makes us holy, righteous, sanctified, perfected and without sin." Haz27

"our being in Christ"? What you are saying? What's really "our being"? The true nature (the being) of the man is simple, "SINFUL".

Therefore, the sinner is "imputed" the "righteousness of Christ" only through the "justification by faith" from God. That is, it's only by faith that the sinner receives Christ's righteousness. No other righteousness apart from faith in Christ is acceptable before God.

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Romans 10:4
---christan on 3/31/12


James L, you say,
"Considering that no sin can enter heaven," who said there would be sin in heaven? No one. Second, you said" when do you believe that your sin will be removed?" We are told that all believers go to the Judgment Seat of Christ" where their sins will be burned and rewards are given. Unbelievers go to the Great White Throne of Judgment for sentencing. Third, we know there is a heaven and a hell, where do you think this judgments takes place at? Forth, we are saved because of the promise of God, but the consumation of our salvation will happen when we are glorified. We are now saved, but not there yet. We can now enjoy the presence of Christ in this life because of the spiritual rebirth.
---Mark_V. on 3/31/12


Send a Free Humor Ecard


Duane, it is you who just doesn't get it. It is you who is not only deceived but the Truth is not in you. It is you who call God a liar. It is you who does not have the Word in you. What you claim for others, is where your problem is at. You might go through life calling God a liar. I don't know, but sure hope not. That is the biggest sin you could do. And you say you are sinless. Here is what you said,
"Its finished....We the born again are now perfect before the Father." Now you claim you are perfect as Christ who is perfect and holy. You are not perfect before the Father, Christ Jesus is perfect before the Father. There is no such thing as perfect dust. From dust you came and to dust you will return.
---Mark_V. on 3/31/12


Christian,
All I can do here is give bits and pieces of scripture as all do on this web site. I cant change anyones position but I can proclaim truth. Truth being, Christ came to free men from sin. Some still want to debate that, I dont. I believe it.
Jesus and HIS work is our foundation, we must build on that only. We dont build on verses of scripture that lead us off our foundation. We must be careful. The reason of so many divisions in Christianity is many dont believe or forgotten the grand purpose and love of Christ.

Jesus put sin away so there is life to be had through faith in HIM.
Sin = death
---duane on 3/31/12


wivv: Your reference to 1John3 as "practice" sin has been discussed between less1538 and I. The terms used by various translations and commentaries is "practice" or "habitual" sin.

Unfortunately, as I discussed with lee, this "practice/habitual" sin doctrine is unsupported by any other scripture and worse still, it is likely to lead people to doubt their salvation in Christ. It is dangerous.

We've also been discussing definitions of sin. What definition of do you use?
---Haz27 on 3/31/12


James_L//I am curious. Do you not believe in the new birth? New creation? washing of regeneration? New heart?

Yes, the most dramatic and unusual experience of my life was when Jesus came into my life. - an experience that totally changed the direction of my life. And that was over 50 years ago.

Yes, Jesus gave me a new heart as I begin to think differently and could see and understand things I never saw before.

//Considering that no sin can enter heaven, when do you believe that your sin will be removed? Apparently you believe that it's only covered over right now.

I believe in the Biblical doctrine of sanctification that we find less and less sin in our lives as Gods Spirit transforms us into the image of His Son.
---lee1538 on 3/31/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders


\\The righteousness of the Christian is not in ourselves but in Christ. His righteousness is credited to our account.\\
---lee1538 on 3/30/12

Lee,
I am curious. Do you not believe in the new birth? New creation? washing of regeneration? New heart?

Considering that no sin can enter heaven, when do you believe that your sin will be removed? Apparently you believe that it's only covered over right now.

Do you advocate Purgatory, so that you can be purged of your sins before you can enter heaven?

Or do you believe that you will be born again when you die?

Or do you believe that you have been born again already?

At what point are you made fit for heaven (sinless) ???
---James_L on 3/30/12


//BUT, Christ sets free from the law (Rom 8:2), and the law was NOT made for a righteous person (Christians), but for the ungodly and sinners (1tim 1:9). And where there is no law there is no transgressions/sin (Rom 4:15).

No real disagreement.

//Jesus is the savior of our soul. It is our being in Christ that makes us holy, righteous, sanctified, perfected and without sin.

The righteousness of the Christian is not in ourselves but in Christ. His righteousness is credited to our account.

1 Cor. 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
---lee1538 on 3/30/12


christan: You said "Sin is the transgression of God's law, period."

BUT, Christ sets free from the law (Rom 8:2), and the law was NOT made for a righteous person (Christians), but for the ungodly and sinners (1tim 1:9). And where there is no law there is no transgressions/sin (Rom 4:15).

Jesus is the savior of our soul. It is our being in Christ that makes us holy, righteous, sanctified, perfected and without sin.
1John3:9 does not refer to our body. Its dead because of sin (Rom 8:10).
---Haz27 on 3/30/12


HAZ27: Didn't know there was a debate going on. Very seldom to I read any ones comments, since it has no bearing on my answer. Having been "around the block a few times" have learned that the only thing debating does is confuse the issue and doesn't really answer the question asked. Before answering I always use at least two translations of the Bible, (although The New American Standard Bible is my favorite) plus I use additional references if needed plus make sure what I answer is backed with prayer.
In the reference you cite, (I John 3:4) the key word is "practice" and there is a difference between practicing sin and committing a sin.
---w on 3/30/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Travel Packages


" We are now new and spotless. Dont add the new man and the old man." duane

Dividing the Word of God is your real problem, not the Scriptures. So, when you make such a statement like the one mentioned above, are you now walking sinless because you are a "new man"? Why don't you elaborate what you have just said in greater detail than just to take it off from the Scripture.

There are many who quote the Scriptures, and yet their understanding is erroneous. Or are you what you accuse others of, "They are without faith in the only ONE(Christ) who is the truth and believe only in mans interpetion of scripture."? So, please, feel free to elaborate your comment.
---christan on 3/30/12


Haz27//Lee1538: Thanks for the Easton's Bible dictionary definition but I'll stick with God's definitions of sin from scripture. Their much better.
---
The definition from Easton's Bible dictionary is much the same as other Biblical expositors would have it.

Obviously you do not have the Bible definition of sin but clearly one of your own invention.

If I may ask, what denominational or group affliation promotes your view that Christians do not sin? We would really like to know.
---lee1538 on 3/30/12


Some just dont get it and never will because they dont believe in the work of Jesus Christ. They are without faith in the only ONE(Christ) who is the truth and believe only in mans interpetion of scripture.
Sin was dealt with at the Cross.Its finished....We the born again are now perfect before the Father. God does not make anything imperfect. We are now new and spotless.
Dont add the new man and the old man. There is only one that has life. The old has been put to death.
---duane on 3/30/12


"we all agree that Christians still do wrong at times, but whilst traditionally this wrongdoing is described as sin..." Haz27

"Wrong doing"? Maybe you like to show us Scriptures that God tells the Christian "he has done wrong" and "not sinned". Did David say to Nathan "I have done wrong before the eyes of God"? Scripture says, "And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD."

As for 1 John 3:9, does this refer to the whole man or just the spirit man that's born of the Spirit? If it refers to the whole man which you seem to be implying, then why do you still have to die in the flesh, since you do not sin anymore?
---christan on 3/30/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Repair


Mark_V, you misunderstand Heb 12:5,7,8
Consider Job 5:17 where this same message is found on chastisement.
What so called "sin" (as you call it) did Job commit to get chastised?
Did Job 1:1 get it wrong saying Job was "perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil"?

Or was it that Satan was trying to get Job to curse God to His face?
Sounds similar to James 1:2-4 doesn't it.
"the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing"
---Haz27 on 3/30/12


We should ask ourselves, who are we? What has God made us?
Sinners? Our identity is saint, reborn for a purpose.
We cant enter in with sin. God will not look upon you much less live within. Christ came to take away sin which most deny by calling themselves sinners. An insult to the work of Christ.
What a shame.
---duane on 3/30/12


I find that this subject is confused by many people, yet it still remains simple to understand.

2 Cor. 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him"

Rom 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren"

Phil 3:12 "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus"

Only one person lived without sin. I am being conformed into His image. I will only get there after this life on earth.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/30/12


//Sad to say, but you trivialize the death of Christ when you make light of sin as "missing the mark".//

in matthew and john, Jesus trivialized the death of Christ and made light of sin at least 14 times by using that phraseology.

i thought it was cool how Nathan and David helped each other hit the mark.
---aka on 3/30/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Products


wivv: Just to clarify (in case you haven't been following this debate up till now), we all agree that Christians still do wrong at times, but whilst traditionally this wrongdoing is described as sin, I use scriptural definitions of sin which reveals why 1John3:9 (and other scriptures) say that Christians do not sin.

Lee1538: Thanks for the Easton's Bible dictionary definition but I'll stick with God's definitions of sin from scripture. Their much better.
---Haz27 on 3/30/12


Haz, you are doing everything possible to indicate you are not a child of God. You conclude the Word is not in you, the Truth is not in you, then call God a liar. Then look for everything possible to indicate you are sinless. (Hebrews 12:7,8) what you are really saying is, that you are not a partaker of God's chastening, that you are sinless,

"If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? (now hear this) "But if you are without chastening, "of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitmate and not sons"

To be a child of God, you have to be a partaker of God's chastening. Otherwise you are illegitimate and not a son.
---Mark_V. on 3/30/12


christan said: ""missing the mark"? Sad to say, but you trivialize the death of Christ when you make light of sin as "missing the mark"."

FYI it was lee 1538 and Mark_V who told me that sin was "missing the mark". If you think this trivializes the death of Christ then confront them about it.

Your claim that I am establishing my own righteousness is error. Either you misunderstand my message or your just making false allegations.
Hopefully it's not the latter.
---Haz27 on 3/29/12


Haz27 - yes, "missing the Mark' has been one descriptive of what sin is and it like many defintions lacks some clarity.

Perhaps you would gain from Easton's Bible Dictionary -

Is "any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God" #1Jo 3:4 Ro 4:15 in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission #Ro 6:12-17 7:5-24

It is "not a mere violation of the law of our constitution, nor of the system of things, but an offence against a personal lawgiver and moral governor who vindicates his law with penalties.
---lee1538 on 3/29/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


The righteous are righteous, and the sinuous are sinuous. Jesus says: "A good tree cannot yield bad fruit, neither a corrupt tree yield good fruit. Every tree not yielding good fruit, will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you all will know them: The sheep follow the Good Shepherd, for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from that one, for they know not the voice of strangers." Mt.7:18-20+ Jn.10:4,5.
---Eloy on 3/29/12


wivv said: "being "born again" means the price for our sin, (past, present, and future)"

BUT Rom 3:25 says: "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins PAST"

There is no "present,future" sins mentioned here in Rom 3:25. It's ONLY PAST sins forgiven.
And 1John3:9 confirms this saying that Christians CANNOT sin because his seed (Christ) is in them.
---Haz27 on 3/29/12


"A common definition of sin is "missing the mark". Haz27

"missing the mark"? Sad to say, but you trivialize the death of Christ when you make light of sin as "missing the mark".

You continue then with "So how to achieve that "mark"?". What is that Christ declared that you cannot believe, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

You are doing what Paul mentioned about the Jews,"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."
---christan on 3/29/12


While we (Christians) have been forgiven because of Christ's sacrifice, it doesn't mean we don't continue to sin, being "born again" means the price for our sin, (past, present, and future) have been forgive as a result of the one sacrifice of Christ's blood. Read: Philippians 3:14. In Hebrews 10:9ff we read about Christ's sacrifice.James 3:2 also points this point out. (James was writing to Christians) What is being suggested to you is what is called "sinless perfection" and is not accurate.
---wivv on 3/29/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Marriage


lee1538, christan: A common definition of sin is "missing the mark". Unfortunately that "mark" is never explained hence the ambiguous notions of sin.

So how to achieve that "mark"?
We can keep the law of righteousness (aka law of sin and death). BUT, just one transgression makes you guilty of all (James 2:10).

OR we can believe on Jesus. In Christ we are righteous, holy (Rom 11:16), sanctified (Heb 10:10), perfected (Heb 10:14) and cannot sin (1john3:9).

christan. I believe the tree of knowledge of good/evil is the law. Just as God warned that to eat of it you will surely die likewise they who try to establish their own righteousness by the law will die.
The tree of life is Christ.
---Haz27 on 3/29/12


While we (Christians) have been forgiven because of Christ's sacrifice, it doesn't mean we don't continue to sin, being "born again" means the price for our sin, (past, present, and future) have been forgive as a result of the one sacrifice of Christ's blood. Read: Philippians 3:14. In Hebrews 10:9ff we read about Christ's sacrifice.James 3:2 also points this point out. (James was writing to Christians) What is being suggested to you is what is called "sinless perfection" and is not accurate.
---wivv on 3/29/12


as long as u are alive,in the flesh,u can sin,being born again of the spirit washes your sins away,its the sin u are not aware of that u will be judged for,and the works done not by the spirit but by the flesh.
---tom2 on 3/29/12


Very simple verse that most people gloss over explains this very well. In fact, I find that most people gloss over this whole book. However, it remains my favorite book in the NT.

James 3:2 "For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well"

I love that truth. For we all stumble in many ways.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/29/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Consolidation


Darlene_1 //All may be tempted but not all give in to temptation.

Totally agree! Since the old sinful nature was crucified and buried with Christ, we are no longer subject to it. However, if we sin, it is by our choice. We do not become robotic and totally controlled by the Spirit.

Those that claim to be sinfree, according to one consult, consider themselves to be little gods and that is when they get themselves in trouble.

Does Haz27 go again up front to get himself to be re-saved as the previous times did not take when he finds he sins?
---lee1538 on 3/29/12


It is possible for Christians to sin but if one learns their Bible well,uses the Word to fight Satan as Christ did,and determines in their heart they won't sin,they will fight temptation and avoid sin. The flesh is dead because of sin, but because we die to self and are buried in baptism with Christ and are risen a new creature in Christ we can live a life without sin. All may be tempted but not all give in to temptation. Romans 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.Romans 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so the body of sin might be done away with.
---Darlene_1 on 3/29/12


Haz27//The sin I refer to is rebellion against God which, by scriptural definition, is unbelief in Jesus. Unbelief often comes by bringing yourself under law for righteousness, which scriptures warns against.

No, I have stated previously that sin is more than just disobedience to law or lifestyle behavior.

One definition given in one of my theology classes was that sin was idolatry or disbelief. Idolatry in that we worship something other than God, and disbelief in that we essentially reject (or rebel) what He commands of us in that such would be for our own benefit.

But in the Bible we see sin defined as the transgression of law (1 John 3:4)and that anything that is not of faith (Rom. 14:23b).
---lee1538 on 3/29/12


Haz27, the definition of sin according to the Scripture is, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:15 - meaning when God commanded Adam to obey Him or there would be deadly consequence in Genesis 2:17, there was only going to be one outcome.

We now know from Paul that when God gave Israel the ten commandments, aka the law, it served only one purpose, "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Sin is the transgression of God's law, period.

As for "the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil", this simply represented the very being of God - HOLY and all-knowing, aka omniscient - which the man can never be.
---christan on 3/29/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Refinancing


christan: Sorry to interrupt your explaination.
Just wondering what your definition of "sin" is. Helps to know this since your discussing "sin".
Also, what do you see the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil as?
---Haz27 on 3/28/12


PART 1: Haz27

Let's start at 1 Thessalonians 5:23, where the tripartite is revealed, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

We'll discuss this verse later but for now we gather from this verse that the man is made up of 3-parts hence the tripartite during God's creation - body, soul and spirit. That's why the creation of man by God is truly special, for no other living creatures He created has a soul and spirit.

That is, animals do not go to hell but they suffer from the fall of Adam by means of death. Only the man will go to either Paradise or Hades.
---christan on 3/28/12


PART 2: Haz27

Now, we must clearly divide the Scriptures and one will be lost and confused.

Example, "as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned". This verse by Paul is clear and explicit, it talks about the fall of Adam who represented mankind, which all the 3-parts suffered.

Then comes God's curse for disobedience which He warned Adam about, "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.", and it came to past, "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." This relates directly to the body, that's made from dust. Even the Christian suffers from this cursed of the flesh.
---christan on 3/28/12


christan: Can you explain your view with scripture please to help me understand what your saying.

By the way Christians have been sanctified (Heb 10:10) and perfected (Heb 10:14) and are holy (Rom 11:16).
---Haz27 on 3/28/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Franchises


lee1538:We both use different definitions of sin. I use specific definitions from scripture. You don't.

Your focus is on lifestyle/behaviors which we know none will ever be perfect.

The sin I refer to is rebellion against God which, by scriptural definition, is unbelief in Jesus. Unbelief often comes by bringing yourself under law for righteousness, which scriptures warns against.

Your misunderstanding scripture because you don't understand what sin is.

Example:Rom 12:2. Be not conformed to this world means do not walk according to flesh (self righteousness through law, Gal 5). The gospel calls for man to be "transformed", which is being born again.

---Haz27 on 3/28/12


Yeah, Mark, but what does the person mean when they say that? That can mean I can't sin in a way to lose my salvation, or it can mean I never will do anything sinful, or both.

About not sinning, we have > "Do all things without complaining and disputing," (Philippians 2:14) So, if someone means they do not do anything sinful, this would include never complaining or arguing, I consider.

I find that as born again people there are wrong things we do, but our Father corrects us > Hebrews 12:7-11 > "But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (Hebrews 12:8) His correction, then, is an assurance that we are His children.
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/28/12


"You seem to be suggesting we walk in both flesh and Spirit." Haz27

I hope you do realize that when a sinner is "born of the Spirit of God", it happens while he's still alive in the flesh sinning. We, being "dead in sins and trespasses" means our spirit is dead and "is enmity against God", that's why the need to be "born of the Spirit".

Man was created tripartite by God. You missed out the soul, which is the part of the sinner that's being sanctified by the Lord in his walk till his flesh returns to dust. His spirit by virtue of being "born of God" cannot sin anymore, that's because it takes after the Holy nature of the Spirit.
---christan on 3/28/12


Haz, do you not understand what the passage is saying in (Rom. 8:10)?
"And if Christ is in you, the body is "dead because of sin," but the Spirit is life because of righteousness"

The body is unredeemed and is dead because of sin ( 6:19,20) Paul speaking to believers,
"I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness and lawlessness leading to more lawlessness," this was before they were saved,
"so now present your members as slaves of righteousness" He tells them because they are no longer "slaves" of sin.
---Mark_V. on 3/28/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Lead Generation


Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

What has been "crucified" is really our propensity (or tendency) to sin but the verse does not mean we thereafter became robotic after becoming Christians and thus incapable of sin nor does it mean that we became immune to temptation by which we sin if we submit to it.

Note the phase "might be destroyed", it does not say "will be destroyed" or "was destroyed".

And yes. unlike before we became Christians, we need no longer serve sin as we are to reckon ourselves dead to it.
---lee1538 on 3/27/12


I do not see how one who is born again, immediately gains control over all bodily desires -some of which may be grossly sinful such as with alcoholics and drug addicts.

What is changed when we become born again is we thereafter have a resource in the Holy Spirit to overcome any sin in our bodies and minds.

And we are commanded not only to present our bodies as a living sacrifice but also to seek the renewal of our minds. Romans 12:1-2

The renewal of our minds as we have been conditioned to think in contrast to the mind of Christ.

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing ye have put off the old man with his deeds,

We would not be commanded to lie not to one another if we were viewed as sinless.
---lee1538 on 3/27/12


Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Our sin nature does not go away when we receive Christ, rather there is an ongoing battle where the carnal mind, battles against the reborn spiritual mind, This battle takes place at the same time.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
---francis on 3/27/12


//Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ, I no longer live but Christ lives in me.
Rom 6:7 "he that is DEAD is FREED from sin"

Galatians 2: 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

The phrase 'the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith in the Son of God' would mean that he does not live by the law since he reckons himself to be not under the law. However, sin may be more than just transgression of the law.

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from (the bondage of ) sin.
---lee1538 on 3/28/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Mortgages


lee1538: What "sin" does Heb 12:1,4 speak of?
I mentioned in "Sin and our standing" blog Christians still have to be wary of sin (biblical definitions). This warning we see in Heb 12.

Note how many scriptures warn against going under the law/establishing your own righteousness. This makes you a "sinner", Gal 2:18.
"Are you so foolish? Having BEGUN in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Gal 3:3

For Christians to sin (going under law thereby making themselves a transgressor/sinner, Gal 2:18 and therefore in unbelief) has dire consequences (see 2Pet 2:20-23).

Read Heb 12:15-17 to understand what sin Heb 12 speaks of. Selling your birthright gets you rejected.
---Haz27 on 3/28/12


lee1538: Regarding Rom 6:12 see verse 14, "sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace".

Here its sin/transgressing the law (1John3:4). But Christ sets free from law (Rom 8:2) and where there is no law there is no transgression (Rom 4:15)

So "sin" (going under law thus making yourself a transgressor/sinner, Gal 2:18) should not have dominion over us.
If we are under grace then its no more works (Rom 11:6). We walk in the Spirit and not the flesh, Gal 5:16-18.

You seem to be suggesting we walk in both flesh and Spirit. Admittedly the flesh does try to take over and bring us back into self-righteousness through the law (sin), but this is death (Heb 12:15-17).
---Haz27 on 3/28/12


Many have a big problem understanding and dividing 1 John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

To understand this verse, one must understand the tripartite of the man which God has created - the body, soul and spirit.

The body (flesh & blood) is already cursed, it's finished. The soul is the part that needs mercy and forgiveness from God, and is sanctified when born of the Spirit. The spirit when Adam sinned died, and to God remains dead to Him until regeneration. When born of the Holy Spirit, it sins no more - not the soul and most definitely not the body.
---christan on 3/27/12


Romans 6:11-12 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions.

If we were sinless, there would not have been any good reason for us to be told that we should not let sin reign in our mortal bodies.

And the problem we see is that Paul is using present tense in 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin and in 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Paul did not use past tense meaning that this occurred before his conversion.

your minority viewpoint requires a lot of re-interpretation of scripture.
---lee1538 on 3/27/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Personal Loans


Hebrews 12:4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

The writer of Hebrews is telling Christians that they struggled against sin but not to the point of shedding their blood.

If they struggled against sin, would that mean they were sinless?

He goes on to talk of discipline - something that would be totally unnecesary if they were sinless and always obedient to Him.

12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

And discipline is a corrective action used to enable us to learn to be obedience and not sin.
---lee1538 on 3/27/12


Mark_V: You touched on the answer when you said: "you have to die to stop sinning"

And Christians have died.
Rom 6:6 "our old man is crucified"
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ, I no longer live but Christ lives in me.
Rom 6:7 "he that is DEAD is FREED from sin"

Mark_V you have not offered any scripture to say Christians sin. It's time to accept scripture says Christians cannot sin because his seed (Christ) is in us, 1John3:9.

If Christ is in you then your body is dead because of sin (Rom 8:10). So stop looking at that flawed old man dead body. See sinless Christ in you instead. We no longer regard anyone according to the flesh now. We're a new creation (2Cor 5:16,17).


---Haz27 on 3/27/12


Mark V, Where Jesus' hand picked Apostles "born again"?
What about Judas?
Peter betrayed him,was this a sin?
---1st_cliff on 3/27/12


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.