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Was Judism Before Christianity

According to the biblical record WHICH CAME FIRST: JUDAISM OR CHRISTIANITY?

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 ---Leon on 4/3/12
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francis, the only reason you don't see a difference betweek what you call Christianity and Islam is because you believe as they do. ---Mark_V. on 4/18/12

You continue to prove yourself an idiot
where in anything I posted tells you that I am a muslim or believe in islam?

understanding what someone else belived does not mean you hold that same belief. It that why you refuse to try to understand what others believe and just post idiotic statements?
---francis on 4/18/12


francis, the only reason you don't see a difference betweek what you call Christianity and Islam is because you believe as they do. That Jesus Christ is not the eternal Son of God. That is why you cannot tell the difference. What you believe and what they believe is the same. True Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is the eternal begotten Son of God. When you confessed that Jesus Christ was not Divine, you sided on Islam's side.
---Mark_V. on 4/18/12


They see him as a prophet and not the Son of God! They have more reverence for Muhammad than Christ Jesus.
---trey on 4/17/12

Does that take away that fact that Adam and all the holy angels submitted to God, and that it was only after sin that created being stoped submitting to God?

My point is that everyone makes a claim to be first Islam, Christians and Judaism. It all depends on how you look at it
---francis on 4/18/12


Francis, the real difference between Christianity and Islam is that the Islamics do not know Jesus Christ. They see him as a prophet and not the Son of God! They have more reverence for Muhammad than Christ Jesus.
---trey on 4/17/12


//EGW would not have recongized the real Jesus Christ had He walked across a swimming pool on bloody feet bearing fishburgers in His nail-scarred hands.

Yes, but she would have ate the fish if they did were the type that had scales.

If anyone were to read "Prophetess of Health, A study of Ellen G. White" by Ronald L. Numbers they would recognize the fact she was really an odd old duck.

They let Ron Numbers into the White archives and he did much damage to Adventism in his book.

The truth is out there, all one has to do sometimes to open ones eyes.
---lee1538 on 4/17/12




\\You should read these guys some time, rather than all those pagan Gnostics you love so much.\\

In other words, you admit that I know more of the writings of EGW than you know of the Church Fathers, which you have not read at all.

Please give specific names of pagan gnostics I read.

\\You should also read "The Desire of Ages". It talks about the REAL Jesus Christ\\

EGW would not have recongized the real Jesus Christ had He walked across a swimming pool on bloody feet bearing fishburgers in His nail-scarred hands.

i know she got a BIG surprise when she died and found out there was no such thing as soul sleep. I pray it was a pleasant one.

Christ is risen.
---Cluny on 4/17/12


Judaism & Christianity are both about submission to the True & Living GOD, i.e., Yahweh. Islam is about submission to another god, Allah. The god Allah is not "YAHWEH GOD". Therefore the god of Islam is not a "third way" but is a concocted fantasy.
---Leon on 4/16/12

All claim the God of Abraham isaac jacob



and ADAM
---francis on 4/17/12


"There are THREE ways to look at this...
---francis on 4/14/12

What is the THIRD way Frances?
---Leon on 4/15/12...

The third way is the way of [I]slam. Islam means "submission to God" & [I]slam claims...the[i]r religion was [1st] since Adam's religion & the religion of...the holy angels, was to submit to God[.]"
---francis on 4/16/12


Francis: Judaism & Christianity are both about submission to the True & Living GOD, i.e., Yahweh. Islam is about submission to another god, Allah. The god Allah is not "YAHWEH GOD". Therefore the god of Islam is not a "third way" but is a concocted fantasy.
---Leon on 4/16/12


//If you don't believe in Theistic Evolution, why do you defend a long ages paradigm for the Creation?

My view is that evolution is simply a theory, not proof of anything. Like any theory, it has its problems and is subject to change.

Unfortunately, the Genesis record is so very lacking that we cannot use it to claim any young earth theory of creation.

//No, no, NO! We are taught that the Bible (all of it), and the Bible only, is the source of all truth - not any man.

You really need to read those 27 SDA Fundamental Articles that tells us the writings of Ellen are to be recognized on the same level as scripture. It is her interpretation that you are stuck with.




---lee1538 on 4/16/12


Cluny: "Which of the Church fathers have you actually read, jerry?"

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Paul
Peter
James
Jude

You should read these guys some time, rather than all those pagan Gnostics you love so much.

You should also read "The Desire of Ages". It talks about the REAL Jesus Christ.


---jerry6593 on 4/16/12




Lee: "Does not Adventism has this same problem, namely putting their leadership ahead of the plain truth of the Bible? I would think so."

No, no, NO! We are taught that the Bible (all of it), and the Bible only, is the source of all truth - not any man. We are taught to study the Bible for ourselves (daily) and, like the Bereans, determine truth from it. This is why I don't accept the word of church fathers or Bible commentators over the Word of God.

If you don't believe in Theistic Evolution, why do you defend a long ages paradigm for the Creation?


---jerry6593 on 4/16/12


There are THREE ways to look at this...
---francis on 4/14/12

What is the THIRD way Frances?
---Leon on 4/15/12

You say that huh?

Good catch. I like people who read and see rather than just make foolish statements

The third way is the way of islam.
Islam means "submission to God" and islam claims that thier religion was first since Adam's religion and the religion of all the holy angels, was to submit to God
---francis on 4/16/12


\\Cluny: "Which of the Church fathers have you actually read, jerry? I'd be curious to know."

My question (still unanswered) was directed at Lee. Are you another of Lee's pseudonyms?\\

No, I'm no more Lee than Jesus is Michael the Archangel.

\\Which of Ellen Whites books have you actually read, cluny?\\

Great Controversy.
Patriarchs and Prophets
Steps to Christ
A couple of volumes of her ravings called "Testimonies to the Churches

Now, I've, answered your questions.

Please answer mine. Which of the Fathers have you actually read?

And if you think that Jesus is the Archangel Michael, you clearly do NOT believe in the real Jesus Christ!

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/15/12


"There are THREE ways to look at this...Loen I had already completely answered the blog question"
---francis on 4/14/12


What is the THIRD way Frances? You've "completely" answered the question to your satisfaction, but that doesn't mean your answers are satisfactory.

"...I cannot see how one would get the improssion that this makes christ a created being"
---francis on 4/15/12


Jesus is God & man. Not half n half, but 100% both: God, put His seed in Mary, "created" a body for Himself & was born into the world. G3:15 is definitely about Jesus, the Christ/Messiah/Deliverer/Savior.
---Leon on 4/15/12


There are many references to Christ in the Old Testament but to pick Genesis 3:15 and say that Christianity came first is totally ludicrous.
---lee1538 on 4/15/12
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This is the first preaching of the gospel and the first promish of the CHRIST

And if we go by that then belief in the Christ came before judaism

From since this promise every generation has looked for the seed who is the CHRIST
---francis on 4/15/12


think this seed referrs to Jesus christ. Thus one can argue that christianity came first. This verse would lead people to believe in the comming christ.

Christianity has always maintained that Jesus is part of the eternal trinity, not someone who did not exist prior to the creation.

There are many references to Christ in the Old Testament but to pick Genesis 3:15 and say that Christianity came first is totally ludicrous.

I read in Ellen White's writing where she believed that was a contest between Jesus and Satan and that Jesus won, thus making these 2 spiritual entities equal. But that goes back to many of the early Adventists who rejected the Trinity.
---lee1538 on 4/15/12


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Yes, we can see that you have the same view as many early Adventists, namely that Christ was a created being.
---lee1538 on 4/14/12
Explain to me and leon (because he does not wish his blog hijacked), how you got the idea that i was saying that jesus is a created being from this text?

1: Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I think this seed referrs to Jesus christ. Thus one can argue that christianity came first. This verse would lead people to believe in the comming christ.

I cannot see how one would get the improssion that this makes christ a created being
---francis on 4/15/12


Jerry //Was that the one that put the authority of "church fathers" and "Bible commentators" ahead of the Bible?

It was more like one that put the authority in themselves rather than in the Bible or the teachers the Lord has given His church.

Does not Adventism has this same problem, namely putting their leadership ahead of the plain truth of the Bible? I would think so.

Sorry to see that you are in a snare. Hopefully the Lord will sent someone to open your eyes.
---lee1538 on 4/15/12


Cluny: "Which of the Church fathers have you actually read, jerry? I'd be curious to know."

My question (still unanswered) was directed at Lee. Are you another of Lee's pseudonyms?

Which of Ellen Whites books have you actually read, cluny?

I'd be curious to know.

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ.


---jerry6593 on 4/15/12


//If this text referrs to Christ the messiah, then we can say that christianity came first.

Yes, we can see that you have the same view as many early Adventists, namely that Christ was a created being.

Sorry Francis but Scripture states that the world was created through and for Christ who existed eternally with the Father.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
---lee1538 on 4/14/12


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There are THREE ways to look at this
1: Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

If this text referrs to Christ the messiah, then we can say that christianity came first

OR

2: Acts 11:26 And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Which means they were called something else befoe then. they were called jews: So Judaism came first
---francis on 4/5/12
Loen I had already completely answered the blog question
---francis on 4/14/12


\\Was that the one that put the authority of "church fathers" and "Bible commentators" ahead of the Bible?\\

Which of the Church fathers have you actually read, jerry?

I'd be curious to know.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/14/12


Frances: It's impolite to speak with rude in your mouth! How is it that you think you can hijack this blog & change the subject because you don't like the topic? How impudently rude you are! If you don't like the blog subject, go find one that suits you. I've noticed you never post a blog question but always have an overflowing mouthful of blah blah blah to say about the blogs other write. Get a life!
---Leon on 4/14/12


Lee: "The denomination I belonged to when I was a child, very gradually rejected the authority of the Bible as its ultimate authority."

Was that the one that put the authority of "church fathers" and "Bible commentators" ahead of the Bible?


---jerry6593 on 4/14/12


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Samuel//The Bible shows what is true and false. We must follow the Bible.
---
Totally agree as all too often we have seen denominations climb on the wrong bandwagon and eventually get lost.

The denomination I belonged to when I was a child, very gradually rejected the authority of the Bible as its ultimate authority.

I believe God is currently removing their candlestick as we now see them losing members at a very fast rate.
---lee1538 on 4/13/12


True being fast growing does not make the SDA church the true church. It does not prove it is false either.

The Bible shows what is true and false. We must follow the Bible.
---Samuel on 4/13/12


Ditto R4H! Francis is way off the mark as well as topic.
---Leon on 4/13/
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE TOPIC IS?

Here is the topic:
What we see today is AdventISM is going down the same dirt trail as the old Worldwide Church of God. ---lee1538 on 4/12/12

If the SDA church is fastest growing church, and the world wide church of God is no more, how can leej be right?

maybe you did not know the topic
---francis on 4/13/12


In addition to its rapid world wide growth Daniel 2:35 the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

I also gave a few of the signs that point to SDA curch as the true church of God,
Isaiah 8:20 To the "law and to the testimony:" if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

Revelation 14:12 keep the ommandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow
---francis on 4/13/12


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"//In any case, being fast growing proves NOTHING.//

//So does rapid gain in membership really mean that an organization is blessed by God and is full of truth?//

I agree with Cluny and Lee. Whenever I hear preachers claiming God's proof on their church or ministry by the building or growth, I think "if that's the proof, who has God given the Temple Mount to?"
---Rod4Him on 4/13/12


Ditto R4H! Francis is way off the mark as well as topic.
---Leon on 4/13/12


Adventists' back-to-basics faith is fastest growing U.S. church G. Jeffrey MacDonald, Religion News Service Updated 3/17/2011

The SDA church is not growning like those who advocate against birth control .No sir!! It is growning by people being converted.

It carries all the marks of the true church:
Isaiah 8:20 To the "law and to the testimony:" if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

Revelation 14:12 keep the ommandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it,
---francis on 4/13/12


//In any case, being fast growing proves NOTHING.//

//So does rapid gain in membership really mean that an organization is blessed by God and is full of truth?//

I agree with Cluny and Lee. Whenever I hear preachers claiming God's proof on their church or ministry by the building or growth, I think "if that's the proof, who has God given the Temple Mount to?"
---Rod4Him on 4/13/12


What we see today is AdventISM is going down the same dirt trail as the old Worldwide Church of God. ---lee1538 on 4/12/12

Not sure what I going on with church of God.

But with the SDA church:
Adventists' back-to-basics faith is fastest growing U.S. church
G. Jeffrey MacDonald, Religion News Service Updated 3/17/2011 5:36:48 PM USA TODAY

What this means is that you leej are again WRONG. The SDA church is not declining nor going doan a dirt trail like the world wide church of God is it growning like a stone cut without hands.

Momanism is not growning as fast as SDA.
---francis on 4/13/12


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Hebrew Roots Movement is a current movement that deals with this question.
---Rod4Him on 4/13/12

I believe what is happenening is that Jesus return is very soon and as a result, people are becoming more "spiritual" and "religious".

I believe that the Jewish Messianic movement is a direct result. Also, Orthodox Judaism has become popular again after years of unpopularity. We are also seeing a reassertion of Orthodox Islam. Orthodox Christianity is seeing an emersion as a popular form of Christianity.

And the Hebrew Roots Movement is seen as a way to return to the "Orthodoxy" of the Christian faith.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/13/12


//While most church in the world are esperiencing a decline, the SDA is the fastest growing.

This is true, howbeit, we see also great gains in membership in the Mormon church as well. In fact, they estimate that more than 300,000 Mormon converts are won every year mainly from Christian churches (p.518 AMG's Ency. of World Religions, cults & the Occult)

So does rapid gain in membership really mean that an organization is blessed by God and is full of truth?

Remind you that these are the end times when cults, occults and other deviant religions will thrive. And tht is something Scripture has predicted.
---lee1538 on 4/13/12


\\While most church in the world are esperiencing a decline, the SDA is the fastest growing.\\

Mormonoids claim the same thing for themselves.

In any case, being fast growing proves NOTHING.

Cancer grows fast, too, at the expense of the healthy cells that do not grow as fast (or decline).

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/13/12


While most church in the world are esperiencing a decline, the SDA is the fastest growing.

WHY?
Because it is from God and no one can overthrow it.
Groups that have left the SDA have come to naught, while the SDA church keeps growing

Acts 5:38 for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it, lest haply ye be found even to fight against God

When people from other denomination here what SDA have to say, to many of them it is the first time that they truely understand RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH, and what it means to worship God
---francis on 4/13/12


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Hebrew Roots Movement is a current movement that deals with this question.

These thinkings are probably a result of easilier and less expensive air-travel with more and more people visiting Israel and becoming more aware of middle-east history.

For the large part it just confuses people, especially Christians, of how they should relate to the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus becomes less and less important, and doing more and more "religious" works become more important.
---Rod4Him on 4/13/12


Cluny: "Jesus told the Jews of His earthly sojourn that Abraham was NOT their father."


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



---jerry6593 on 4/13/12


What we see today is AdventISM is going down the same dirt trail as the old Worldwide Church of God. ---lee1538 on 4/12/12

Not sure what I going on with church of God.

But with the SDA church:
Adventists' back-to-basics faith is fastest growing U.S. church
G. Jeffrey MacDonald, Religion News Service Updated 3/17/2011 5:36:48 PM USA TODAY


Which fits with the bible:

Acts 5:38 for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it,
---francis on 4/12/12


Some of the "ism"s attempt to marry Judaism with Christianity.

In doing so, what you have is a confused worship system like the former Worldwide Church of God founded by Herbert W. Amstrong.

That denomination converted to Christianity and the larger part became Grace Community Church.

They used to observe the Sabbath, the dietary laws, the Jewish festivals as well as many of the distinctive OT laws.

What we see today is AdventISM is going down the same dirt trail as the old Worldwide Church of God. But in doing so, we can expect them to become more fractionated as the different groups within their denomination fight among themselves.
---lee1538 on 4/12/12


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finaly a better topic
---francis on 4/10/12


\\islam and judasm both have abraham as their father, both acknowledge one God ( the same God):\\

Jesus told the Jews of His earthly sojourn that Abraham was NOT their father.

Christians believe that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Judaism and mahometanism both reject this, hence they do not believe in the same God of Christianity.

And "ish" is not a word, francis.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/10/12


Francis: "I would pefer to talk about why christians embrace judaism and are very standoff ish towards islam."

First, the title "Judaism" is not in the Bible. The true religion of God began in Eden and continues today. It was practiced by the Hebrews, Israelites and Christians as the worship of the one true God. It is the same religion. Only human misinterpretations create divisions within it.

Islam is not the same religion. It was "invented" by a self-proclaimed prophet (who was in reality a murderous, theiving pedophile) about 2600 years after Abraham. Allah is NOT the same God as Jehovah, as he alledgedly promotes the murder of innocent unbelievers.

---jerry6593 on 4/10/12


francis:

Islam specifically teaches:
1) Jesus is not God's son, because it would not be proper for God to have a son.
2) Jesus did not die on the cross, but was instead assumed into heaven.

So Jesus is relegated to that of a prophet and teacher, in the same category as Moses.

Also, many of the stories from the Bible are also in the Qur'an, but they are changed. This is because Islam teaches that the Qur'an is pure, but the old and new testaments have been corrupted.

Could you honestly be a Christian and also believe all of that?
---StrongAxe on 4/9/12


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dwight moody met with a cigar smoking fish named charles?
---aka on 4/8/12


Calvin believed we do have free will in the sense that we have the ability to choose what we want, but that ability to choose is not only mildly influenced but is radically conditioned by the human corrupton of our hearts, out of which flow the choices we make. In other words, we make evil choices not from indifference but from a piror inclination to wickednes. The Bible says of the unreqenerate 'every intent of the thoughts of his heart is only evil continually'. Gen. 6:5

Read and understand Kathryn.
---lee1538 on 4/8/12


Kathr, now you are going after Leej. You still have a problem, every time you answer were here to answer back to your remarks. You said,

"Or Calvin'ISM'that has caused more grief than anyone can imagine".

Calvinism took simple man out of bondage of the Roman Catholic Church with their "free will' works base religion. And the RCC fought back just like you do every day to defend your own free will theory. "The remnant of true believers dared to "come out" to preserve and propagate "the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3). The Reformation of the sixteenth century was, next to the Apostolic Age, the most vital part of the history of the Church.
---Mark_V. on 4/8/12


Yes, you silly goose, the Bible clearly reads that God made eggs, for He has made the heavens and the earth and ALL things therein.
---Eloy on 4/7/12


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"This blog reminds me of the old question,
'Which came first, the chicken or the egg?'
answer: eggs come from chickens & chickens come from eggs...Likewise, which came first, Judaism or Christianity?
answer: Judah comes from Christ & Christ comes from Judah..."
---Eloy on 4/7/12


"In the beginning..." Everything began with God. Christ is God, right? (G3:15, i.e., "...her seed...shall bruise your head...") I suspect Adam & Eve, though they'd fallen from grace, were the first Christians (true believers in the word of God).

By the way Eloy, I believe you know the origin of the chicken can be found in G1:21, i.e., '...every winged fowl...'". :)
---Leon on 4/7/12


The chicken came first. We don't have any biblical accounts of God making eggs

Also, how would the egg have hatched if there were not already a chicken to sit on it?

Likewise, Christ came first, being from everlasting
---James_L on 4/7/12


Actually in the vein of the Bible, God created the rooster first, then he put a deep sleep on the rooster, and he took out one of the rooster's ribs and built for him a helpmate hen bird for the rooster. Then the rooster woke up and looked at the hen bird, and shouted, "Wha-a-roo-roo!" Then the the chickens got busy together and made themselves some eggs...I jest.
---Eloy on 4/7/12


kathr4453:

You're right. You can't tell someone it's wrong to smoke and be saved. But for the wrong reasons. The reason is that neither Paul nor Jesus said that. Salvation depends on one's faith in Christ, and not on one's actions. Peter was asked what things new gentile believers should refrain from. He mentioned fornication, food sacrificed to idols, and blood. Tobacco was noticeably absent from that list.
---StrongAxe on 4/7/12


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This blog reminds me of the old quesion,
"Which came first, the chicken? or the egg?"
answer: eggs come from chickens, and chickens come from eggs, and eggs come from chickens, and chickens come from eggs.

Likewise,
Which came first, Judaism? or Christianity?
answer: Judah comes from Christ, and Christ comes from Judah, and Judah comes from Christ, and Christ comes from Judah.
---Eloy on 4/7/12


//Or Calvin'ISM'that has caused more grief than anyone can imagine.

And that tells us we should take any 'ism' for what it is worth, exacting the truth and ignoring the rest.

//You know LeeJ, You can't tell someone it's wrong to smoke and be saved, while you claim to be a christan with a cig hanging our of your mouth.

When Dwight Moody met with Charles Sturgeon in London, it bothered him that Sturgeon liked his cigars. While this dirty habit does not preclude one from being saved and may be something that disappears later in a Christians life, it does hinder ones witness that one has become a new creation in Christ.

Doubtful Kathryn, smoking or chewing tobacco is your worst problem.
---lee1538 on 4/7/12


Another frivolous debate having many opinions not related to the bible. So, who will win this debate and at what cost?
---Steveng on 4/6/12
AGREED

So what would you like to talk about?

I would pefer to talk about why christians embrace judaism and are very standoff ish towards islam.

islam and judasm both have abraham as their father, both acknowledge one God ( the same God): Jews disregard Jesus as lord, islam disregard jesus as lord. isalm accepts jesus as a prophet, Jews regard him as a good, yet misguided man. They both use the same OT

So why do christians embrace one and reject the other
---francis on 4/7/12


Too bad He has not yet abolished Adventism - another 'ism' that had cause problems in the Lord's church.
---lee1538 on 4/6/12

Or Calvin'ISM'that has caused more grief than anyone can imagine.

You know LeeJ, You can't tell someone it's wrong to smoke and be saved, while you claim to be a christan with a cig hanging our of your mouth.

The same goes for the above.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/12


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"WHICH CAME FIRST: JUDAISM OR CHRISTIANITY?" Judaism.
Judaism, as the acknowledged belief in one God, started with Abraham. Judaism as the method of worshiping that one God started with Moses.
---joseph on 4/7/12


God has his followers before, during, and after Christ. Before Christ, "Mine anointed": during Christ, "Mine anointed: after Christ, "Mine anointed, mine anointed are mine Christians": all his own children forenamed Christians in the everlasting Christ, even before the mountains were born, or Christ gave birth to the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, He our God, and we his children.
---Eloy on 4/7/12


The term Christian is not found in the OT and therefore impossible to have preceded the tribe of Judah. It is through the tribe of Judah the Lord was born. A Christian is a follower of the Lord Christ Jesus:

KJV Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

~humble follower of the Rock and lover of The Eternals truth (KJV) Matt 16:18, Corin 10:4, 2 Thess 2:10 1 Pet 2:21
---Follower_of_Christ on 4/6/12


Another frivolous debate having many opinions not related to the bible. So, who will win this debate and at what cost?
---Steveng on 4/6/12


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//christ came to fulfill the Law and abolish all other isms and all other forms of religion: judaism, polytheism, sadism, deism, mysticism, vampirism, legalism...

Too bad He has not yet abolished Adventism - another 'ism' that had cause problems in the Lord's church.
---lee1538 on 4/6/12


I agree with Jed. Christianity is founded in and upon Judaism which is why the Old Testeament is part of our Bible.

The words written to the Jews are for us. Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

So unless you want to throw out these words of Paul we should understand that all the Bible is for Christians.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/6/12


The question was not whether Christ came before the Jews, but whether Christianity came before Judaism. Christ and Christianity are two completely different things. We all know Christ existed before all. But Christianity (not Christ) didn't exist until Christ came to earth. Before that, the Jews were essentially today's Christians. Remember, Christians worship the God of the Jews. The only difference is that the Jews don't believe Jesus was God in the flesh. So before Jesus came, there would have been no difference between a Jew and a Christian. Everyone who believed in the true God was a Jew. The separation began when Jesus came. All who believed he was the Jewish Messiah were then called Christians. Historically, Judaism was first.
---Jed on 4/6/12


Judaism did not become an ism until after the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D.
---John.usa on 4/5/12

christ came to fulfill the Law and abolish all other isms and all other forms of religion: judaism, polytheism, sadism, deism, mysticism, vampirism, legalism...

God's incorruptible version of christianity was not possible until the day of pentecost. man's corruptible version of christianity was started a millisecond after God's version.
---aka on 4/6/12


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Judaism did not become an ism until after the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D.
---John.usa on 4/5/12


aka, A-men. Christ came before all! Hallelujah!
---Eloy on 4/5/12


As francis has pointed out, mankind has been waiting for and relying on the Messiah, the Christ for their salvation since the beginning.
The Christ was known to man in one form or another long before Judah was known to man.
---micha9344 on 4/5/12


//This means that Christians are grafted into the vine of Judaism, God's chosen people.//

Gentiles are crafted into the olive tree and thus we are nourished by the aside the natural branches that believe. Romans 11.

Jesus said, in John 15:1, "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser."

Judaism is not the vine and neither is Christianity. Christ is the vine and He came before Christianity and Judaism.
---aka on 4/4/12


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There are THREE ways to look at this
1: Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

If this text referrs to Christ the messiah, then we can say that christianity came first

OR

2: Acts 11:26 And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Which means they were called something else befoe then. they were called jews: So Judaism came first
---francis on 4/5/12


Israel's forth-born son, Judah the chief of the tribe of Judah, from which Judaism is named, was born in 1897 B.C., being in the 19th century B.C. (ref: Genesis 29:35): and Shiloh Shakaun's first-born Son, Christ the chief of the Christians, from which Christianity is named, was born in 5 B.C., being in the 1st century B.C. (ref: Luke 2:7). However, since Christ is of the tribe of Judah, and Christ is also God the Creator whom created Judah, therefore spiritually Christ the beginning of Christianity began before Judaism and before the foundation of the world.
---Eloy on 4/4/12


Willie C, The word Christ actually means Messiah, or Savior. I agree that The Son always existed with the Father from before creation. However, He did not assume the role of Christ until he came to earth to take man's punishment for their sins, even though it was pre-determined that he would do so long before that time. Also, the term Christian actually means a disciple or follower of Christ. Since no-one followed Christ until His birth, Christianity actually began with Jesus' earthly ministry, after Judaism had already been around for several millenia. The Bible tells us that "all who are in Christ, are become Abraham's seed". This means that Christians are grafted into the vine of Judaism, God's chosen people.
---Jed on 4/4/12


Jesus prayed, "'And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.'" (John 17:5) So, "before the world was," there was the glory that is Christian, that our Father was sharing with His Son Jesus.

Jesus came first, and Christianity is about our Father and his Son Jesus and Their glory together. Then came the Judaic Law "added because of transgressions" (Galatians 3:19).

So, there has been Christianity before Judaism, and now Christianity is developing more, in us.
---willie_c: on 4/4/12


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Judaism started when God spoke to Abraham and established him as the "father of many nations". His faith was carried on by his son Isaac, and his grandson Jacob (later re-named Israel), and continued by Jacob's sons, known as the 12 tribes of Israel. All of the Hebrew people (Jews) are direct descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Judaism was the faith of the Hebrew race. Today, many people who are not of Hebrew race have converted to the faith of Judaism. And many Hebrews (Jews) have like-wise converted to other religions. Today, the term "Jew" can refer to either a person of Hebrew ancestory or a person of Jewish faith. Christianity began when Jesus Christ was born into the tribe of Judah thousands of years later.
---Jed on 4/4/12


Cluny: Judaism is the monotheistic religion of the Jews, based on the laws revealed to Moses & recorded in the Torah (the first five books of the Jewish Bible), i.e., the Old Testament (OT). Therefore, the question, which has nothing to do with Judaism today, is very real & relevant.
---Leon on 4/4/12


That's a non-question, because the modern religion called Judaism today is clearly NOT the religion of the OT.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/4/12


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