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Differences Of Covenants

What are the differences between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant and when did the New Covenant begin? Please use scripture only.

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Calvin is continually praising Augustine's work with numerous references and quotations. Augustine was greatly influenced by the Gnostics, an early Christian sect, whose doctrine was heretical. Gnostics believed that mankind was wholly evil, and some sects even renounced marriage and procreation. Their teachings are believed to have influenced Saint Augustine in the development of his theology of the "total depravity" of mankind and his concept of God. For nine years Saint Augustine adhered to Manichaeism, a Persian dualistic philosophy proclaimed by Mani (216-276? AD) in southern Babylonia (Iraq) that taught a doctrine of "total depravity" and the claim that they were the "elect."
---kathr4453 on 4/18/12


What is all this ranting and raving about from Lee1538.

From Old and New Covenants to women on drugs and alcohol WOW...Now someone has really revealed they WERE on drugs and alcohol when writing this, or just another senile moment from Lee1538.

Lee1538 believes under GRACE it's totally OK to get BUZZED on wine and alcohol, and even says getting TATOOS is OK too.

But let me ask you all, ARE WE FREE to do anything we want because we are under Grace??

I say NO NO a thousand times NO.

And since I personally have never indulged in drugs or alcohol, I can't relate to Lee1538's deep spiritual comment here. Is that someting you learned from one of your books? Burn those books! Sounds like a moron wrote them.
---kathr4453 on 4/18/12


Francis, many times you have written if one breaks one commandment they have broken them all.
---Rob on 4/17/12

I did not write it I quoted it from James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

Therefore it is 100% true. You must keep all ten commandments: THE WHOLE LAW

You growing up in a SDA home does not in any way shape or form make you a SDA.

Many adopted and step children grow up in SDA homes and are not SDA. We just want to know if you are one of those children.

So let me ask you thins: Were you are SDA?
How old were you when you left the SDA church?
Why did you leave?
---francis on 4/18/12


francis, I was shock to learn you do not believe in the Divine nature of Christ. I always thought SDA's were a Christian religion even with their weird believes. Concerning the written Law, it is very much in effect today, it's condemning all those who are not in Christ. Those under the written letter of the Law need a Redeemer. And since you teach people to be under the Law, that suggest you are under the Law. Evidence shows also you never once speak of the Spirit of the Law. If all SDA's believe what you do, the whole religion is in great need of a miracle by God. Remember,
"But to him who does not work "but believes in Him" who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.." (Rom. 4:5).
---Mark_V. on 4/18/12


Francis, many times you have written if one breaks one commandment they have broken them all.

Is not thou shalt not LIE or BEAR FALSE WITNESS one of the commandments.

You wrote I must have been adopted in a SDA home. In the past, both yourself and Jerry have said I must have been a step child.

These things are outright LIES, and you both BEAR FALSE WITNESS against myself, which means you have broken all of the commandment.

I know you hate the fact I did indeed grow up in an SDA home, and you hate that I share the TRUTH about SDA's which I learned from personal experience.

---Rob on 4/17/12




//Gentiles were NEVER under theh Old Covenant either. That was given to Israel ALONE.
---
And there are some who are not under either the Old or New Covenant but in listening to the rattling of their own minds, continue to go astray.

And this is particular truth of women going through changes in their bodily chemistry as well as those who have for years been addicted to drug and alcohol.
---lee1538 on 4/17/12


Francis //As I mentioned to Jerry, this is one area I disagreee with the OPC. especially XXI.7 which states that

Interestingly I discussed the problem I had with the WCF with my OPC pastor and guess what? He agreed with my position totally. This pastor is working on his doctorate at Westminister Theological seminary.

I think you find that just because someone belongs to a particular denomination that does not always mean that person is in agreement with all that that denominations believes.

And we even see in Adventism, those that do not recognize Ellen White and her writings nor do they believe that one even has to observe the Jewish Sabbath for their salvation.
---lee1538 on 4/17/12


Blogger, seems as though many want to believe ONLY the Sabbath Day is an issue with the Old and New Covenant. That's not even a real ISSUE considering the real issues of Old and New.

The Promise of the Holy Spirit came with the New Covenant. Sin went from COVERED to FORGIVEN.

And so much more.

Gentiles were NEVER under theh Old Covenant either. That was given to Israel ALONE.
---kathr4453 on 4/17/12


If the Sabbath (Saturday) is a day of REST, how is it a sin for people to rest on Saturday and go to church on Sunday?

It seems to bother some which day we worship on. Is getting up early, putting on our best clothes, makeup, etc, driving for half an hour to a building to sing to God (which isnt a bad thing at all), then going out afterwards to have someone to feed us really "resting"?

I would think sleeping til noon and watching television the rest of the day would be "resting"
---LindaH on 4/17/12


I suspect since the OPC is very strong on the Westminster Confession of Faith, that they hold that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday.

As I mentioned to Jerry, this is one area I disagreee with the OPC. especially XXI.7 which states that

I totally agree the Sabbath was not changed to Sunday.
---lee1538 on 4/16/12

OK
---francis on 4/16/12




francis//Read what your own orthodox presbyterian church teaches in it's article: Report of the Committee on Sabbath Matters
---
I have downloaded the article.

I suspect since the OPC is very strong on the Westminster Confession of Faith, that they hold that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday.

As I mentioned to Jerry, this is one area I disagreee with the OPC. especially XXI.7 which states that

God, so, in his Word, by a positive,moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath,...

As posted to Jerry, I have some difference with the OPC and this is one of those issues.

I totally agree the Sabbath was not changed to Sunday.
---lee1538 on 4/16/12


Francis, as I have shared many times before, I know about the SDA's because I was raised in an SDA home.
---Rob on 4/16/12

Being raised in a SDA home does not make you SDA. maybe you were adopted in a SDA home.


To be a SDA one must:
Revelation 12:17 keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 4/16/12


Is not the Sabbath, dietary laws, circumcision of males really a part of the Old Covenant that was replaced by a New Covenant that was to be UNLIKE the Old? Did the Apostles err at the Jerusalem council?
---lee1538 on 4/16/12
Read what you own orthodox presbyterian church teaches in it's article: Report of the Committee on Sabbath Matters
---francis on 4/16/12


Francis, as I have shared many times before, I know about the SDA's because I was raised in an SDA home.

However I do agree with you 100% that everyone needs to know more about adventist because everyone needs to know the truth about the SDA's being a CULT.
---Rob on 4/16/12


//Only some people who have seen the light turn away to vain and profane teachings

1) then since Christians have not observed distinctly OT laws since the leadership passed to Gentiles, are we to conclude they turned to vain & profance teachings?

2) Since no one alive or dead has been able to find even a hint in the Bible any command believers are to observe laws distinctly Jewish, are we to conclude Biblical scholars have been wrong for over 20 centuries on these issues and have turned to vain and profane teachings?

Is not the Sabbath, dietary laws, circumcision of males really a part of the Old Covenant that was replaced by a New Covenant that was to be UNLIKE the Old? Did the Apostles err at the Jerusalem council?
---lee1538 on 4/16/12


I probably know more about Adventism than you would like to admit.
---lee1538 on 4/15/12
Everyone needs to know more about adventist because everyone needs to know the truth.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Only some people who have seen the light turn away to vain and profane teachings

But SDA call them back to be the people of God to:
Revelation 14:12 keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


We call all men to be
Acts 21:20 all zealous of the law:
and be 1 Cor 4:10 fools for Christ's sake,

but not obsessed to want to kick the daylights of of another person
---francis on 4/16/12


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Francis//You do not get it.
Hebrews / Jews who are SDA have been worshiping in thier synagogues for years.

Then why do we see the article about synagogues in the 2004 Adventist Review if such did not exist previously?

"It's encouraging to see that 12 new [Adventist] synagogues have recently been formed in North America. It's a precious experience to participate in a worship service that has its roots in a service similar to the type Jesus attended during His life on earth." from a article in Adventist Review 2004

It appears to me that the SDA is attempting to transform their worship services to be more like the Jewish synagogue services. Apparently you do not know what is going on in your own denomination.
---lee1538 on 4/16/12


Do you have the guts to tell them to please forgive those who murdered their children? That they are not godly if they don't? I don't think so. But you sure were ungodly to me. And because I oppose your views you lied, implying I was molested myself and made sure you put it out so that everyone could read your lies. You don't need to go to siminary, you need to apologize to parents who lost a child.
---Mark_V. on 4/16/12

How do you know they haven't already forgiven?

Why would anyone need to apologize since YOU teach God is in control of EVERYTHING! It's God who allowed this to happen RIGHT! So who are YOU oh MarkV to ACCUSE GOD!!!

What a load of two faced doctrine here!
---kathr4453 on 4/16/12


\\Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.\\

Have you noticed how you don't allow people who worship on Sunday that same privilege?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/16/12


If pedophiles could enter the kingdom of heaven with their own free will, we would have pedophiles and murders in heaven.
---Mark_V. on 4/14/12


FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God. BUT, The NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST Can enter the Kingdom of God.

That's why it's important to be Born Again. It mattters not what sin afflicted your old adam flesh, for no FLESH no matter how GOOD it is will enter the Kingdom of God.

We must put on CHRIST.

The audacidy of a Born Again washed in the Blood sinner COMPARING oneself to an unregenerate sinner is so arrogant.

In God's eyes MarkV, maybe you weren't a pervert, but maybe your sin of PRIDE and ARROGANCE is more appauling to God than a pervert is.
---kathr4453 on 4/16/12


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---lee1538 on 4/15/12

You do not get it.
Hebrews / Jews who are SDA have been worshiping in thier synagogues for years.

This is not a plan by the SDA church to start keeping feasts.

SDA Jews who live in communities in USA and other contries build their own synagogues.

Muslims build muslim style building, Former buddist build bussist type buildings, Japaneese SDA take their shoes off being entering their temples.

2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:

and so what if they choose to observe the feast:
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
---francis on 4/16/12


Craig, God commands us to love our enemies, He also commands us not to sin, and everyone does. He commands us to preach the gospel to all nations, and not many do. I know who I am before the Lord, a sinner saved by grace. Not saved by my works. I see you did not mention anything concerning the parents who lost a child to the murderering pedophiles. Do you have the guts to tell them to please forgive those who murdered their children? That they are not godly if they don't? I don't think so. But you sure were ungodly to me. And because I oppose your views you lied, implying I was molested myself and made sure you put it out so that everyone could read your lies. You don't need to go to siminary, you need to apologize to parents who lost a child.
---Mark_V. on 4/16/12


What are the differences between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant and when did the New Covenant begin? Please use scripture only.
---Blogger9680 on 4/9/12

Another difference between OLD and New is Location and staff

Both old and new covenants contain a sanctuary. The old was on earth, the new is in heaven

The old was a school master showing us the plan of redeemption through blood of bulls and goats, until Jesus died

The new is the real thing which is cleansed by the blood of Jesus who also serves as high priest

So the old covenant sanctuary served as a schoolmaster teaching us who Jesus would be: Passover lamb, high priest, veil, use of His blood, Light, Bread, Water, oil and so on
---francis on 4/16/12


Francis //If you knew anything aboutthe SDA church you would know that worship styles in the SDA church varies culture by culture and country by country.

While that may be somewhat true, it is a fact as documented by the 2004 Adventist Review that they are creating what they call synagogues and observing the OT feasts, howbeit, with modification much like they have modified the way the Sabbath was kept in ancient times.

I probably know more about Adventism than you would like to admit.
---lee1538 on 4/15/12


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I know a SDA who goes on missionary trips to India, he does not take his favourite bible which is leather bound. He doe snot want to offend.

1 Cor 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

I heard of a SDA church in florida which selebrates the passover (NOT EASTER) and by so doing they are able to win many Jew to christ

1 Cor 9:19 For though I be free from all [men], yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews

I am extremly please with the work that that the SDA is doing in winning souls to christ
---francis on 4/16/12


---lee1538 on 4/15/12
You are big lair and mark_V you are a big idiot for blindly following him

If you knew anything aboutthe SDA church you would know that worship styles in the SDA church varies culture by culture and country by country

Adventist jews who choose to worship in synagogues are simply following the cultureal heritage.

no plans for feast and sacrifices and again EVEN IF THEY DID:

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
---francis on 4/15/12


It is most assuredly God's will that we label other people here as hypocrites while proclaiming ourselves free of hypocrisy.
---John.usa on 4/15/12


Craig, at least I am not a hypocrite as you. You bleed for them, yet do nothing. Do you go to their homes and witness to them? Your all talk---MarkV

Mark, are you just hurling accusations now in an attempt to discredit me? Careful your "Christan" is starting to show through on "MarkV" now.

Our Father commands us to love our enemies because that is what HE does.

And just so you know, Ill be starting seminary in a few weeks, so yes I care enough to DO something. I guess I could choose to sit on CNet all day long and tell people how Jesus didnt die for them though...
---CraigA on 4/15/12


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Craig, at least I am not a hypocrite as you. You bleed for them, yet do nothing. Do you go to their homes and witness to them? Your all talk. I am not saved by any of my works but by the grace of God. If you bleed for the murdering pedophiles why don't you go to the homes of the parents who lost a child to those murdering pedophiles and tell them to forgive the murderers who killed their child's, if they don't they are not godly and not going to heaven. No one has killed one of my children, but if they did, I would never forgive them. At least I am honest. If there is three murderers in heaven, watch out, they might murder you when you get to heaven if you ever do. I am glad I am not like you are the murderers, I am glad I am a child of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/15/12


When did the Body of Christ come under a covenant to Israel?

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Jere. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a NEW covenant with the house of ISRAEL, and with the house of Judah:
Heb. 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a NEW covenant with the house of ISRAEL and with the house of Judah:
---michael_e on 4/15/12


francis, you answered my question, "who are you anyway?" It doesn't take long for someone to open their hearts and pour out what is in them. No, no one has called me an "idiot" you are the first. I have been called much worse, and I expect it. It happens everyday. All the preaching you have done goes down the drain with one word. I know, you could not help yourself, that is why I forgive you, but I don't know about God. you have to deal with Him, remember you are under the Letter of the Law, and have now broken one, and if you break one, you have broken them all under the Letter of the Law that you teach.
---Mark_V. on 4/15/12


So you think that I am lying when I stated some Adventists are establishing what they call synagogues?

"It's encouraging to see that 12 new [Adventist] synagogues have recently been formed in North America. It's a precious experience to participate in a worship service that has its roots in a service similar to the type Jesus attended during His life on earth." from a article in Adventist Review 2004.

Elsewhere in the article, you will find reference to a 'synagogue' at Andrews University.

Apparently you refuse to investigate this allegation since you are content to be blind to the truth.
---lee1538 on 4/15/12


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//YOU ARE AN IDIOT

Francis is a very frustrated person as it is obvious that he cannot convince anyone on this forum that the church is still under the Old covenant laws.

In that, he has to create an argument that the Apostles and their immediate successors sinned by not imposing laws that were strictly Jewish onto Gentile believers, in other word, the Jerusalem council Acts 15 went against God's holy and unchangeable laws.

Frances and Jerry are not idiots but simply misled individuals that are totally satisfied to be blind to the truth of both the Bible and church history.
---lee1538 on 4/15/12


francis, you continue to fight for the Old Covenant, the Letter of the Law. ---Mark_V. on 4/15/12
I am sure that i am not the first to tell you this:

YOU ARE AN IDIOT

look again at the blog question and look at my post.

If you were not such an idiot you would see that all i did was outline the difference in the old covenant and new covenant as the blog question stated

and only a liar like leej would suggest that SDA want to open synagogues and perform ceremonies that was given only to israel

and you are a bigger idiot for supporting him without checking out the facts
---francis on 4/15/12


I sleep well knowing that God will deal with them one day ---MarkV

That sounds so unChrist-like.
Does that mean you would toss and turn at the thought of God actually forgiving those people and giving them a new heart?

Just because its YOUR desire that these men perish doesn't mean its Gods. Im actually shocked at the hatred you have towards people whose sins you think are worse than yours. You remind me of the Pharisee in Luke 18..

"I thank thee, that I am not as other men are..."

You might wanna read which of those two men was justified, Mark.

By the way, there are three murderers in heaven right now: Moses, David and Paul
---CraigA on 4/14/12


The view is supported by hard evidence provided by the articles 'Are Adventists moving to feast-keeping'?. you can locate those articles yourself (there are more than one) and read them for yourself.

---lee1538 on 4/14/12

This articles are written by people like you who want to give a negative view of SDA.

But even if SDA decide to keep all the feast of God
They would still have scriptural support

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
---francis on 4/15/12


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francis, you continue to fight for the Old Covenant, the Letter of the Law. When someone gives you New Covenant passages, you still go back to the Law. Suggesting disobedience of the law condemns you. Then you suggest and say,
"instead what happens is this festering sore of useless, mindless attacks which is often tasteless, baseless and ungodly"
But then you answer Lee with,
"John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." Who are you anyway? You are not been obedient.
---Mark_V. on 4/15/12


Francis //And there is a movement within Adventism to establish synagogues and perform ceremonies commanded only of those in Judaism.

The view is supported by hard evidence provided by the articles 'Are Adventists moving to feast-keeping'?. you can locate those articles yourself (there are more than one) and read them for yourself.

Perhaps you are in denial as to what is transpiring within Adventism?

This is the problem you have when you hold that the New covenant is a mere extension or rehash of the Old. Adventism is become more and more a pseudo Jewish and/or pseudo Christian religion.
---lee1538 on 4/14/12


And there is a movement within Adventism to establish synagogues and perform ceremonies commanded only of those in Judaism.
---lee1538 on 4/14/12

John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
---francis on 4/14/12


Francis said: "the usual garbage posted by leej and HAZ"

BUT it's you, Francis, who posts "garbage", or, as Paul described it in Phil 3:8 "DUNG". Your righteousness through the law doctrine is "dung". That is why we challenge you.

Rom 11:6 shows how you CAN'T mix the 2 covenants together as SDA doctrine does.
"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace, otherwise work is no longer work."
---Haz27 on 4/14/12


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Yes francis has done a good job in depicting the various OT festivals and to some extent how they pointed forward to the ministry of Christ. However, in these festivals, there were to be animal sacrifices made, thus there is no way they can be observed today by the church without modification.

And there is a movement within Adventism to establish synagogues and perform ceremonies commanded only of those in Judaism.

Col. 2:23 These things have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
---lee1538 on 4/14/12


I have done an outstanding job of pointing out how several of the feast of the Old Covenant points us to the works of Jesus Christ on behalf of our salvation, and leads us to greater faith in Christ and enables our righteousness by faith.

I do hope that others have something to add about these feast. I am looking forward to someone posting about the feast of trumpets and the feast of booth and how it relates to what Jesus is doing for our salvation.

Otherwise this blog will disintergrate into the usual garbage posted by leej and HAZ: our christianet sounding brass, and tinkling cymbal.
---francis on 4/14/12


Craig, you are a hypocrite, You now say,
"The power of Jesus Christ can change ANY man no matter how horrid his sins may be."
You argued for the free will of men.
Second, I have no power to forgive any sinner who has rebelled against God's laws. Only God does. I can forgive those who hurt me, but their sin has to be forgiven by God. All pedophiles who murder children, are of the wicked one and not children of God. I sleep well knowing that God will deal with them one day. That is why I have said a million times, "God forgives whom He will's to forgive" If pedophiles could enter the kingdom of heaven with their own free will, we would have pedophiles and murders in heaven.
---Mark_V. on 4/14/12


lee1538. I see Francis is missing the point in comments here when he said "why don't you " christians" respomd to the blod question"

I agree with you, "our righteousness is in Christ not in ourselves."
BUT we "were" sinners (not "are" sinners still) who have been saved by grace.

To bring yourself under the law you make yourself a transgressor/sinner Gal 2:18. This is what SDAs do, not understanding the difference between the 2 covenants.
---Haz27 on 4/13/12


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True that the OT saints never saw Christ before they went to sleep but what matters is they believed God's promise of salvation and "without faith it is impossible to please him".
---christan on 4/13/

In addition none of us alive today have seen christ. we accept the record by faith.

Everyone who is saved is saved by grace, justified by faith

John 20:29 blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
---francis on 4/13/12


why don't you " christians" respomd to the blod question instead of attacking each other?

If everyone simple responds to the question, what would happen is that the blogs would be more enriching.

instead what happens is this festering sore of useless, mindless attacks which is often tasteless, baseless and ungodly.
---francis on 4/13/12


Haz27 //why is it SDAs CAN'T keep the law perfectly with their claim of God's help?

Glad to see you back with us!

It is a belief found in Adventism that one can be enabled by the indwelling Holy Spirit to attain a state of sinless perfection by observing the law. If this state is attained, then Adventists believe they will be able to be found worthy at the Investigative Judgment and thus merit eternal life.

Orthodox Christianity believes that we are sinners saved by grace, that our righteousness is in Christ not in ourselves.
---lee1538 on 4/13/12


hello,family,to bro.CraigA. My brother I know too,God can do what no one else can do! God has changed many a person.The Lord bless you everyone.Bro.CraigA. I got to say that God sure been good to me,I have done things that yes! I wud certainly,be ashamed of now! but,God in his mercy gave me chance to receive his love 'n you know give my life o'er to him.Feverent prayer availeth much.Love of Jesus!
---ELENA on 4/13/12


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"Hebrews 11 is about the faith of OT saints" lee1538

But aren't all the saints of God also justified by faith? Didn't Paul teach in Romans that Abraham (who happened to be an OT saint) was justified by faith? And that anyone that receives Christ is also justified by faith? So, why do you draw a distinction that the OT is saved differently from the NT and post-NT saints? Rather disturbing doctrine of justification by faith you have.

True that the OT saints never saw Christ before they went to sleep but what matters is they believed God's promise of salvation and "without faith it is impossible to please him". That's why they are in Paradise with Christ.
---christan on 4/13/12


Mark you can call me what you like. Thats fine. My intention isnt to slander you, its to get at the core of why you turned against the truth. Your unforgiveness is the problem. You need to forgive. Jesus did and He commands us to as well.

James 2:13
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy, and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

You and I are no more worthy of salvation than a murdering pedophile (James 2:10). We are equally guilty.

The power of Jesus Christ can change ANY man no matter how horrid his sins may be. Dont look at the sinner, look at what Jesus can make of that man. Never count anyone out. Love hopes in all things.
---CraigA on 4/13/12


Craig, you are a hypocrite and a slanderer. Your evil intentions are always shown towards me, just because I stand for the right of God to save whom He will's to save. You don't want God to be Ruler of anyones life, So you despise my answers. I know about Catholism, I was a catholic myself. I learn the history because I studied it. You want God to open the gates of heaven to murdering pedophiles because your heart bleeds for them, when all they did in life was raped, tortured and killed the innocent children. There was many murdering pedophiles through history, you say "please God let them in, because you cannot sleep at nights." Tell that to the parents who lost their children you hypocrite.
---Markl_V. on 4/12/12


lee1538* - usually those that convert to the Christian faith from Roman Catholicism are often more dedicated to the teachings of the Bible.

What teaching from the Bible? Eternal security can't lose your slavation, bible as the sole authorithy on faith and morals. Neither btw are taught in the bible

lee1538* Calvinistic in their doctrine and I suspect that is because Calvinism is more supported by Scripture than the Arminian churches.

And Calvin who went by scripture only, believe that Mary had no other children. Which you don't support:)

---Ruben on 4/12/12


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Francis said: "If Job can, why can't I?"

Anyone who knows any SDAs know they fail to keep the law perfectly.

And what did Job say in Job 42:6? "I abhor myself and repent"

And consider that young man who kept the commandments. He said to Jesus "what LACK I yet? Matt 19:20

And what of Paul who was "blameless" regarding the righteousness of the law (Phil 3:6). Paul counted this as "dung", so "that I may win Christ" (Phil 3:8).

Francis said "God has given us his divine power to live Godly lives"
Considering Job, Paul and the young man did not have God's help, why is it SDAs CAN'T keep the law perfectly with their claim of God's help?

---Haz27 on 4/12/12


CraigA - usually those that convert to the Christian faith from Roman Catholicism are often more dedicated to the teachings of the Bible.

At least that has been my observation of several former Roman Catholics that have become Christians.

As to Calvinism, the more Biblically oriented denominations are Calvinistic in their doctrine and I suspect that is because Calvinism is more supported by Scripture than the Arminian churches.

I find it interesting that the only charge anti-calvinists have concerns the sovereignity of God. They simply do not like the idea found in Scripture that God can do whatever He wishes with His creation.
---lee1538 on 4/12/12


So my question towards Francis was not an attempt to point the finger. Just wanted to clear up a suspicion I had
---CraigA on 4/12/12

I did not suspect any ill will towards me.

I like to point peopel to this verse when they ask about keeping the law perfectly:

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job, and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

If Job can, why can't I?
---francis on 4/12/12


I could be wrong MarkV, but the signs are all there. Just the fact that you are becoming angry tells me that its a sensitive subject for you.

You were once Catholic.
You left the church for Calvinism
Your repeated focus and call out the Catholic church.
You are very unforgiving towards those who have committed sexual sin (you brought this up yourself on two occasions)
You refuse to believe that Jesus died for those who are pedophiles

As for Francis, Im not perfect either. I sin daily and have to repent and ask for strength. So my question towards Francis was not an attempt to point the finger. Just wanted to clear up a suspicion I had
---CraigA on 4/12/12


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Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So here it is in the New testement. the blessing of Abraham ( Righteousness by faith) comes to us through Jesus christ, that we may receive the promise of the holy ghost by faith

This holy spirit then lives within us and guides us into righteous living. This is righteousness by faith

It is only when we do not listen to the holy spirit that we sin. And yet 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

and this is righteousness by faith
---francis on 4/11/12


Craig, why did you slander me? The subject was pedophiles and You said about me,

"Kathr while I agree with you most of the time I dont think arguing and name-calling with Mark. He is obviously very hurt by what someone in the catholic church has done to him and his heart is hardened. He has tried to escape that pain in a false doctrine."

Why do you want to give the impression to everyone who reads, that I was molested by the Catholic Church? When did I ever say I was? You are a hypocrite, here you say to francis:

" No nasty responses from me. I dont condemn people because they arent perfect. Im just curious" You just slander them.
You are a hypocrite.
Who is your next victim?
---Mark_V. on 4/12/12


--CraigA on 4/11/12
Whether or not a person keeps the law perfectly does not change what the new covenant is.

It does not change the fact that God has given uis his divine power to live Godly lives

2 Peter 1:3 According as " his divine power" hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness..Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might "be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

The next part of this discusion would go into RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH
---francis on 4/11/12


Christan -Hebrews 11 is about the faith of OT saints in the promise given to them, not about their obedience to law. In fact. Rahab was a prostitute, Jephthah murdered his own daughter, etc.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. (11:13)

Before we were justified by faith, the law was our guardian (schoolmaster) to lead us to faith. Galatians 3:24f

The ministry of death & condemnation versus the ministry of the Spirit is from 2 Cor. 3:7,9. Yes, the former reflects the Old covenant, while the latter the New covenant. Perhaps you may wish to review that section.
---lee1538 on 4/11/12


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--I am not sure what this has to do with what the new and old covenants are.
please explain
---francis on 4/11/12

Do you follow the law perfectly as a Christian with the Spirit of Christ living in you? Its not a loaded question. No nasty responses from me. I dont condemn people because they arent perfect. Im just curious
---CraigA on 4/11/12


"Those that attempt to live by the law are those who are under that ministry of death & condemnation for they are really cursed." lee1538

And that's the difference between the OT and NT? The first man Adam started the ball rolling and up till today and the days to come, many are still trying to be justified by the law - so where's the difference?

Again, do not take offense with what I am asking but were the OT saints saved any differently from the NT and post-NT saints is my question? I wouldn't have asked this if you didn't say "the New Covenant is a new agreement not a rehash or continuation of the Old". Many think so but Hebrews 11 will tell you, no.
---christan on 4/11/12


The Old Covenant was "the ministry of condemnation and death, carved in letters on stone, [that] came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses face because of its glory, and was brought to an end,[with] the ministry of the Spirit [that]was to have even more glory.

Those that attempt to live by the law are those who are under that ministry of death & condemnation for they are really cursed.

Ga 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.
---lee1538 on 4/11/12


Well Francis, do you follow Gods law perfectly now that you have the Spirit of Christ in you?
---CraigA on 4/11/12
I am not sure what this has to do with what the new and old covenants are.

please explain
---francis on 4/11/12


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--The new covenant promises the power of the holy spirit which enables us to obey all Gods laws
---francis on 4/10/12

Well Francis, do you follow Gods law perfectly now that you have the Spirit of Christ in you?
---CraigA on 4/11/12


The difference between the two is this:
In the Old covenant, the holy spirit is never asked for, neither is it promised to obey "All that the LORD hath spoken."

In the New Covenant, God promises to give us his holy spirit that we may obey "All that the LORD hath spoken."
---francis on 4/11/12


"The key words in Jeremiah 31:32 is the word "not like" meaning that the New Covenant is a new agreement not a rehash or continuation of the Old however, there are some things in common." lee1538

I'm truly baffled by your theology and doctrine of salvation you seem to have. Are you telling us that the OT saints are then saved or received salvation different from the NT and post-NT saints? I hope that's not what you are driving at and that I am wrong.

God's covenant in the first place does not require an "agreement" with the sinner. He does not need to consult the sinner about salvation. Anyways, who in the right mind when offered salvation from God will reject it? Only one who's not regenerated.
---christan on 4/11/12


Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye (the people of Israel)will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye (Israel)shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye (Israel) shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation...

God made the covenant at Mt. Sinai ONLY with Israel and that covenant became obsolete with Christ (Hebrews 8:13). This obsolete covenant does not include those who are of His church.

Foolish Galatians (forerunners to Adventists) want to go back under the law believing that it will put them in favor with God. But God honors faith, not obedience to law. Romans 1:17, Gal. 3:11.
---lee1538 on 4/11/12


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Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him. And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD

This above is the OLD COVENANT a verbal agreement that they woudl obey ALL that God said and God would in turn be thier God and bless them
---francis on 4/10/12


Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The new covenant promises the power of the holy spirit which enables us to obey all Gods laws
---francis on 4/10/12


"But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6)

"Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another---to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God." (Romans 7:4)

So, I can see that the Old Covenant has a person married to the law, while the New Covenant has us that we may be married to Jesus.

Where is our attention married?
---willie_c: on 4/10/12


Matthew 5:21-48
John 13:34,35+ John 15:12,13,17.
---Eloy on 4/10/12


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Jeremiah 31:31-32 Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.

Where people get into trouble with their theology is when they willfully fail to make any distinction between the Old and the New Covanant.

The key words in Jeremiah 31:32 is the word "not like" meaning that the New Covenant is a new agreement not a rehash or continuation of the Old however, there are some things in common.
---lee1538 on 4/10/12


All of God's covenants starting from Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and finally Jesus Christ points to His Covenant of Grace. And that's,

"And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart." Jeremiah 24:7

It is all God's work 100% who gives His Spirit to the sinner to know Him, who chooses a peculiar people for Himself. Hence salvation by Grace 100%, that's His promise or His Covenant with the Son and Holy Spirit. The sinner is the beneficiary.
---christan on 4/10/12


Jesus " obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a [new] better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second" But " finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah" The new covenant began with "Jesus, the Mediator of the new covenant." Because "the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did], by the which we draw near unto God." Hbr 8:6-8>12:24>7:19
---Josef on 4/10/12


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