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United States In Bible Prophecy

Is the US in Bible Prophecy?

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 ---weatherbill on 4/11/12
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\\In the State I live in, there are probably only 5 or 6 Orthodox churches and most of them are extremely small and not even noticed by the community.\\

That's OK.

Jesus called His followers a "little flock."

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/20/12


Jerry //If you can provide scriptural bcv to support that claim, then I'll believe you.

You will not find anything in the Bible that commands Christians to observe any day as holy. Roman 14 addressed to a largely Gentile church, makes that very clear.

Since Sunday was the norm for communal worship by 135 AD, there is no way we can escape the conclusion that the Apostles & their immediate successors did not teach Sabbath observance.

Glad to be able to set you straight on that issue.
---lee1538 on 4/20/12


//Where do you find a commandment to "keep Sunday"?
Only in the Catholic Church!
----
The Roman Catholic Church believes that the Apostles and more important, their immediate successors were all Roman Catholics and thus had the authority to make Sunday the day of worship. However, since the early church established communal worship on Sundays by their tradition and were not all Roman Catholics, the RCC really has no legitimate claim for issuing a command.

Glad to be able to clarify that for you Jerry.
---lee1538 on 4/20/12


U S in Bible Prophecy? Well, you'll find your answer in Zechariah 12-14.WILL the Nation of America come against Israel IN THAT DAY? We're already seeing over these past few years a turning of attitudes.

Again, IN THAT DAY, what ever nation comes against Israel will be coming against God. They will be fighting against GOD.

Who do you believe is going to win....IN THAT DAY.... THAT DAY has not yet come to pass...but it will.

Any doctrine who teaches and advocates hatred of Israel is anti-christ.

So REALLY, should we all REALLY all just get along?

NOT according to all those warnings from Peter, Paul, John, not to mention Jesus Christ Himself.

Some things we are NOT to be ignorant of!
---kathr4453 on 4/20/12


I reckon you will find the United States at Revelation 7:9.
---jamea4353 on 4/20/12




Lee: "Sunday as the day of worship was simply a tradition established by the Apostles."

If you can provide scriptural bcv to support that claim, then I'll believe you. All you will find is that the Apostles kept the Sabbath exclusively. You will also find Paul's singular Saturday night sermon which lasted until midnight, followed by a long trip Sunday morning. That's not "establishing a tradition". The tradition found in Scripture is:

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments, and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Where do you find a commandment to "keep Sunday"?
Only in the Catholic Church!


---jerry6593 on 4/20/12


Yes PHYSICALLY -"the whole world" which includes the land mass currently occupied by the US, but No POLITICALLY (as a political entity, the US and the UK did not exist, only the land they now occupy).

The rest of the "discussion" is lost in personal attacks and "one-upmanship" that many reading here would (or should?) be horrified at so-called Christian behaviour. So childish... Well done Mark Eaton - Christ-like response within a sea of attacks. And yes, I'm as guilty as anyone in wanting to "win an argument" or think "I'm defending the Faith" but I'm not sure some of the responses are here are what Paul envisaged when he said to be ready in season and out of season to give a response!
---Simon7348 on 4/19/12


Mark Eaton //Folks, Folks, Folks!!!

Is all this necessary?
----
Yes, I am among those that would like to see this end.

I often have felt by the poor tax collector praying in the temple beating his breast, for God to forgive me for not having all the right theological views while my opponent blesses herself believing that she is not like those people who have studied God's word for a lifetime and whose ministry the Lord has blessed.

What I see is that she has and will continue to attack anyone on this forum just to be an agitator.
---lee1538 on 4/19/12


//The Orthodox Church is the Body of Christ, not the RCC or her protestant daughters.

It is clear to see that God has done little or nothing to bless the Orthodox Church. Most are lead by some bearded old men who look like they just came in from a sabbatical out in the desert some place.

In the State I live in, there are probably only 5 or 6 Orthodox churches and most of them are extremely small and not even noticed by the community.

Perhaps that could change if they put more emphasis on the Bible and the command of Jesus to go forth into all the world and preach the gospel.
---lee1538 on 4/19/12


The Gospel according to the MYSTERY was revealed to Paul, so there were no outside commentaries telling Paul what to believe. Paul spent 14 years on the backside of a mountain with the Lord teaching him, and not only that, was carried off to the third heaven where God showed him things, of which he said some was unlawful to even speak of.

John was carried off too, and was too shown things no previous commentaries taught.

These THINGS are revealed to HIS BODY, not those outside the body.

Barbs? Lee, you're full of barbs and insults. Not to mention just full of yourself.

First PROVE you are one of God's elect. Should we just take YOUR/calvins WORD for it??

You're a modernist who mixes darwin with christianity.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12




Kathryn Adams -If you really worked with an apologetic ministry, then why did not some of the teachings of the Christian faith rub off onto you. You must have a real tough hide or a brain that is not wired correctly.

Anyway, I see you now throwing more barbs at me because I put you in a light where everyone can see your ugly nakedness.

Sorry but since you are unwilling to tell me what the apologetic ministry you worked with nor their website, it is apparently that you really have no credentials in the academic or world of theology. What did you do, janitorial work for some pastor?

How can I help you if you are so determined not be healed of your infirmities?
---lee1538 on 4/19/12


//The early Church did not need BOOKS and commentaries to understand scripture.

Your remarks really show how little you know about these matters.

The early church wrote hundreds of commentaries and letters, most of which have yet to be translated.

Your desperation is clearly shown by your continued ad hominem attacks. You simply do not have any real facts to fight with. Why don't you simply do the more sensible thing and stop posting . God gave you only one mouth but 2 ears and 2 eyes, so you should use them twice as much. That is probably the only way you will ever learn and come into the truth.
---lee1538 on 4/19/12


The English term "Gnosticism" derives from the use of the Greek adjective gnostikos ("learned", "intellectual", where the term "knowledge falsely so-called" (nominative case pseudonymos gnosis) covers various groups. The apostle Paul's warning against "knowledge falsely so-called" in 1 Timothy 6:20


Lee Jensen brags CONTINUALLY ABOUT HOW intellectual AND learned he is. Lee Jensen is a self professing GNOSTIC.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


Lee Jensen is so jealous of me. He knows he has no personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

And he simply cannot believe a WOMAN ( notice his ugly remarks about women) has a brain. That God gave brains to women as well as GIFTS.

The early Church did not need BOOKS and commentaries to understand scripture.

SCRIPTURE teaches scripture.

My pastor reads directly from God's word, and cross references with other scriptures, not BOOKS!

Sorry LEE, I cannot shed my own blood to save myself. Jesus SAVES.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


Atleast Cluney is HONEST about his understanding of Augustine. He admits YES, but supposedly Augistine REPENTED of his Gnostc ties.

Lee however acts like your assaulting his GOD!

Woe, if calvinists defended the Gospel TRUTH that Jesus died for all to the extent they defend their GURU's we might see something great going on in teh workd.


MISPLACED priorities misplaced in false doctrine.

Lee Jensen...KISS MY GRITS!!
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


Folks, Folks, Folks!!!

Is all this necessary?

Have we lost sight of the fact that God hates the proud? And aren't we all protecting our wounded pride?

I can say honestly that I will NEVER know all there is to know about God, Scripture, Salvation, the World, and Myself.

Contrary to all those people who think we will learn it all in heaven, we will NEVER know it all. Otherwise we will be God.

So can we accept the fact that our CURRENT opinions may be wrong, that our commentaries may be wrong, that everyone's understanding may be flawed, and that all of them are a result of seeing dimly as through a veil?

God bless.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/12


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\\What Church???

BUT, is he at Peace with the CHURCH, I mean the Body of Christ, not the RCC. \\

The Orthodox Church is the Body of Christ, not the RCC or her protestant daughters.

And if you can say that I don't have discernment, then I can say, with greater authority, that you do not have it, either, kathr.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/19/12


//I worked for an Apologetics Ministry with over how many books??

?? means you really don't know if they were books?

If you were not a student of apologetics but simply someone that worked in an apologetic ministry, then you really do not have any good credentials to make a judgment on the works of Augustine or any of the Reformers.

Being able to see Russia from your backdoor will not make you an expert in foreign affairs. One of our political candidates learned that the hard way.

If I am to be able to help you get to the source of your problem(s), I really would need you to identify the Apologetics Ministry you worked for. Websites would help.
---lee1538 on 4/19/12


1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.


You are welcome to SCOFF at the risk of blaspheming God's Word and PROMISES.

Many many claim here they have NO NEED of Sufering yet want us to believe they are established strengthened and settled in the faith.

I say FOOIE to that. You're only established in HEAD KNOWLEDGE and your books.

Like I said, Books have no POWER. AND God doesn't test your HEAD KNOWLEDGE!

He tests your FAITH. Those thing HE personally has taught you!
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


But St. Augustine DID die at peace with the Church.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/19/12

What Church???

BUT, is he at Peace with the CHURCH, I mean the Body of Christ, not the RCC.

Is he at peace with God?

Now that is something no one will know until we all stand before God!!
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


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//Reading commentaries is MILK, baby food.

And if that is true, then listening to a pastor in the pulpit is also milk as the moment he starts expounding on the scripture, he or she becomes a commentary.

When are you going to engage your brain before you post. You are getting more ridiculous all the time and continue to lose credibility.

Maybe you should stop using Depends and simply walk around out in the pasture with the other animals.
---lee1538 on 4/19/12


// worked for an Apologetics Ministry with over how many books?? THOUSANDS, So what FACTS do you have Lee Jensen that I am not qualified to open my mouth.

Then Kathyrn Adams should not be afraid to provide the sources that she believes proves Augustine was a heretic.

I have "Augustine Through the Ages, An Encyclopedia" by Allan D. Fitzgerald, O.S.A. that I can look just about anything that Augustine believed in.

Apparently you have a problem with Calvin and with the scripture as you want to believe eternal salvation is not wholly of God but in the hands of those that would hear the gospel.
---lee1538 on 4/19/12


Cluny, there are not MY human gifts, but GIFTS given by the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. If you had any SPIRITUAL Gifts given to the BODY of Christ, of which we are all given YES even WOMEN, then you would not have made such a redicuous statement.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


Hebrews 5:13-14
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Reading commentaries is MILK, baby food.

However, those who have entered into the Fellowship fo His SUFFERINGS are in fact EXERCISED to know truth from Lies.

We grow up INTO Christ becoming MATURE..full age, not being tossed and turned about by EVERY bit of man's doctrine that comes along. We become STRENGTHENED, ESTABLISHED and SETTLED in the Faith. All those are attributesof Christ in us.

Then we are known as OVERCOMERS.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


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BTW, kathr, please note that I have NOT defended Jean Chauvin (to use his real name), nor have I said that St. Augustine is the universal solvent that he became in the West, being the most prolific writer in Latin.

But St. Augustine DID die at peace with the Church.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/19/12


\\WHEN you have the gift of discernment and teeth to eat strong meat, YOU WILL TOO.\\

You don't actually think you have discernment do you, or can digest strong meat, do you?

Are you that blind to your own limitations?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/19/12


Cluny, I've read some of Augustine.

If Augustine is too OLD in history to track down his life, discern through his works, etc, then how on earth can anyone PROVE Calvin was influenced by him?

I worked for an Apologetics Ministry with over how many books?? THOUSANDS, So what FACTS do you have Lee Jensen that I am not qualified to open my mouth.

And STILL, I research, and pray and seek out the truth from GOD.

WHEN you have the gift of discernment and teeth to eat strong meat, YOU WILL TOO.

No one developed strong teeth to eat meat eating BABY FOOD. That is already hashed out chewed up and spit out for your pleasure. Paul calls them carnal baby christians...I'M OF him or I'm of them. CARNAL!
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


Lee: "Sunday as the day of worship was simply a tradition established by the Apostles."

If you can provide scriptural bcv to support that claim, then I'll believe you. All you will find is that the Apostles kept the Sabbath exclusively. You will also find Paul's singular Saturday night sermon which lasted until midnight, followed by a long trip Sunday morning. That's not "establishing a tradition". The tradition found in Scripture is:

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments, and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Where do you find a commandment to "keep Sunday"?
Only in the Catholic Church!


---jerry6593 on 4/19/12


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Calvin forced the citizens of Geneva to attend church services under a heavy threat of punishment. Since Calvinism falsely teaches that God forces the elect to believe, it is no wonder that Calvin thought he could also force the citizens of Geneva to all become the elect. Not becoming one of the elect was punishable by death or expulsion from Geneva. Calvin exercised forced regeneration on the citizens of Geneva because that is what his theology teaches.

This isn't Christianity, it's a Protestant Pope exercising Inquisitions in his own country. Legalism to the max. NO GRACE whatso ever.

This too is the same reign of terror that will be seen during the 7 year tribulation, of which they DENY, and spiritualize away.

BEWARE!
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


We also see this same abuse towards those who question their doctrine. I's that same evil spirit that has passed down from generation to generation, satan working through them UNTIL the end, for satan's own purposes.

Augustine first believen in a literal 7 year tribulation, and then changed his mind and spiritualized it away. Calvin followed suit, as do these who follow. THAT in itself should be enough to WARN any true Spirit filled believer that these are true enemies of Christ and God's WHOLE plan of salvation, as THEY twist and destort Romans 9-11.

BIG WARNING!
---kathr4453 on 4/19/12


---Cluny on 4/18/12
Well, since you did not know. Let me inform you that n 321 AD the roman government passed a law to make sunday the official rest day of the holy roman empire.

In 364 AD Council of Laodicea decrees death for Christians who keep 7th day Sabbath
---francis on 4/18/12


Kathr4453//The source of your belief that Augustine was a heretic is impossible to verify let alone track down.

Really lee, you didn't know that was written by a SCHOLAR. Now you have no cloak to hide behind.
--
Either you shut up or reveal your sources whether they be scholars or not.

Augustine of Hippo is considered as being one of the pillars of the Church. Clearly if he had doctrinal beliefs that were considered heretical, then we would certainly read of it by contemporary scholars but we do not.

And I guess that leaves you on the lunatic fringe, does it not?
---lee1538 on 4/18/12


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One belief held by Calvin and Reformed Christians today is known as Total Depravity.

the doctrine can be totally supported by the following scripture.


Genesis 6:5, 8:21, Numbers 15:37-39, 1 Kings 8:46, Job 15:14-16, Psalm 14:1-3, 51:5, 94:11, 130:3, Proverbs 4:23, 20:9, Ecclesiastes 7:20, 8:11, Isaiah 6:5, 53:6, 64:6, Jeremiah 10:14, 13:23, 17:9, Matthew 7:11, 15:19, Mark 10:18, Luke 17:10, John 2:24, 3:36, 6:44, 15:5, 16, Acts 3:16, 16:14, Romans 1:18-2:16, 3:9-20, 23, 5:12, 7:18-20, 8:7, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 12:3, 2 Corinthians 3:5, 4:3, 11:3, Ephesians 2:1-6, 4:17-19, Colossians 2:13, 1 Timothy 2:25, 6:5, 2 Timothy 3:8, Titus 1:5, James 2:10, 3:2, 8, Revelation 9:20, 16:9.

Poor Kathryn has nothing to hide behind now.
---lee1538 on 4/18/12


kathr, there is nothing about Manicheeism that you cannot tell me.

But I gather you have not actually read ONE WORD of St. Augustine. Is this right?

francis, once I mentioned a few things from Eastern Church history to a SDA. He replied, "If what you are saying is true, what does this do to the SDA interpretation of Bible prophecy?"

I answered, "The words are yours. I challenge you to check on what I say, and if you find it to be true, are you willing to REEVALUATE the SDA interpretation of the Bible?"

He said, "No.

Don't confuse him with facts. His--and your--minds are made up.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/18/12


Cluny,your answer. .

Calvin is continually praising Augustine's work with numerous references and quotations. Augustine was greatly influenced by the Gnostics, an early Christian sect, whose doctrine was heretical. Gnostics believed that mankind was wholly evil, and some sects even renounced marriage and procreation. Their teachings are believed to have influenced Saint Augustine in the development of his theology of the "total depravity" of mankind and his concept of God. For nine years Saint Augustine adhered to Manichaeism, a Persian dualistic philosophy proclaimed by Mani (216-276? AD) in southern Babylonia (Iraq) that taught a doctrine of "total depravity" and the claim that they were the "elect."
---kathr4453 on 4/18/12


Are you so ignorant as to think that Christians and Jews worshipped only one day a week, francis?
---Cluny on 4/18/12

Are you telling me that are you are aware that in 364 AD the church hunted down and killed those christiane who kept the sabbath?
---francis on 4/18/12


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\\yeah, keep putting your head in the sand
---francis on 4/18/12\\

Are you so ignorant as to think that Christians and Jews worshipped only one day a week, francis?

You are the one with your head in the sand, not only about history but about the heresies of your precious EGW.

Christ is risen
---Cluny on 4/18/12


All that happened after this was that in big cities and churches, services were held daily.

Try again.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/18/12
yeah, keep putting your head in the sand
---francis on 4/18/12


\\---Cluny on 4/17/12

Check your history see what happen in the year 364 AD

It is one thing to meet freely any day of the week, quite another when the government enforced it
---francis on 4/17/12\\

All that happened after this was that in big cities and churches, services were held daily.

Try again.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/18/12


You know where it is happening and in what states - so tell us.---StrongAxe on 4/17/12

SB114:
---francis on 4/18/12


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//does this verse apply to you?

Ephesians 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive,

Not in the least since I study just about everything including reading the Bible in at least 15 diffferent versions and the Lord has given me guidance on this.

And having studied Adventism for years, it is all too easy to see that they also have changed their views on several subject and are now fighting among themselves over control of the organization.
---lee1538 on 4/17/12


---Cluny on 4/17/12

Check your history see what happen in the year 364 AD

It is one thing to meet freely any day of the week, quite another when the government enforced it
---francis on 4/17/12


francis:

When you make a claim, the responsibility is on YOU to provide support for that claim (two or three witnesses - i.e. external corroboration). It is not the responsibility of your readers to go hunting over all creation for it.

You know where it is happening and in what states - so tell us. Once you give us some more information than "this needle is in that haystack" (for example, which state, which law, when it was passed, etc.) we can easily verify it for ourselves without every single reader having to re-do your research.
---StrongAxe on 4/17/12


\\So we have Rome in 321 making sunday and official day of rest, and many sunday blue laws in American which are still on the books not not enforced\\

This does not change the fact that Christians had been meeting in the wee hours of Sunday morning for the Eucharist, and then going on about their usual business the rest of the day
for nearly 300 years BEFORE that.

The US is not in Bible prophecy, but the SDA is as one of the daughters of the great Harlot of Rev 13.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/17/12


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This cannot happen unless the First Amendment is first repealed, and given the country's pluralistic nature, that is not likely to ever happen.
---StrongAxe on 4/17/12
If you do a little research you will see that it is happening already. State by stare
---francis on 4/17/12


Having been a member in several different churches and denominations - I moved around the country for my jobs - I have studied many different denominational views on theology and have come to have my own.
---lee1538 on 4/16/12
Understood

does this verse apply to you?
Ephesians 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive,
---francis on 4/17/12


francis:

You said: Pay attention in this election year to the voices of those who will call america to be a " constitutional christian nation."

This cannot happen unless the First Amendment is first repealed, and given the country's pluralistic nature, that is not likely to ever happen.

Pay attention to the number of sanctions which the USA can levy against other nations Revelation 13:17 that no man might buy or sell,

Regardless of any trade sanctions the U.S. imposes, these are not what Revelation speaks of, unless:
1) they are worldwide
2) they are universal (i.e. affect ALL products, even local ones)
3) require receiving a mark
4) it is the mark of a specific individual
---StrongAxe on 4/17/12


Sorry Francis, but as I posted to Jerry, I am not a proponent of the Orthodox Church on the same level as you are with the Seventh Day Adventist church.

There are several points of disagreement with them one being the Sabbath, another being spiritual gifts, and yet another being the qualifications to church office (I believe the Bible mentions women deacons).

Unlike you, I do not hold my mouth open to swallow everything the hierarchy wants to shove down my throat.

Having been a member in several different churches and denominations - I moved around the country for my jobs - I have studied many different denominational views on theology and have come to have my own.
---lee1538 on 4/16/12


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Those that believed Sunday replaced the Jewish Sabbath were wrong.
---lee1538 on 4/16/12

LOL LOL Let me give to some time to look at your own church the Orthodox prebyterian church says about the sabbath, in an article called: New Horizons
Proper Sabbath Observance: The Sojourner's Sabbath
by Herman C. Hoeksema
---francis on 4/16/12


not even under the 10 commandments, under a higher law, the law of life thats in christ Jesus.... let no man judge in respect of new moons, sabbaths, etc for these are just shadowns, butthe reality of those are in Christ.... the sabbath represents the millenial reign. its about Christ not a day of the week
---weatherbill on 4/16/12


//It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday (or any day of the week).

VERY TRUE!!!

Those that believed Sunday replaced the Jewish Sabbath were wrong.

Sunday as the day of worship was simply a tradition established by the Apostles and their immediate successors. Sabbath observance was no longer required of believers and we see the church early in 2sd century no longer observed the Sabbath.(see Bacchiocchi's book)
---lee1538 on 4/16/12


So we have Rome in 321 making sunday and official day of rest, and many sunday blue laws in American which are still on the books not not enforced

Pay attention in this election year to the voices of those who will call america to be a " constitutional christian nation."

Pay attention to the number of sanctions which the USA can levy against other nations Revelation 13:17 that no man might buy or sell,
---francis on 4/16/12


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CLUNY the beast claims her seed:

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church. Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ News on March 18, 1903.

"Protestants..accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change..But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that..in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope." Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.
---francis on 4/16/12


Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Remember the 7 heads / mountains / hills/ kings: Five have fallen-> Eeypt, assyria, babyulon, medeopersia, Greece.

One is: Pagaon form of rome:
One is to come: The holy roman empire

Ten horns of kingdom that came when Rome fell

and remember blasphemy: Claiming to have the power to forgive sin whcih only God can do.
Claiming to be God on earth: "vicarious filli dei latin for Vicar of the son of God

No cluny adventist are not the seed of the beast. I will show you whom the beast claims as her seed
---francis on 4/15/12


//And the SDA is one of the daughters of that beast.

And like the woman who rode the beast, the SDA denomination was founded by a woman.

SDA people need to heed the cry to come out of her and participate not in her sins or share in her plagues. Reve. 18:4
---lee1538 on 4/15/12


\\The bible talks about a beast in Revelation 13:1 \\

And the SDA is one of the daughters of that beast.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/14/12


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The bible talks about a beast in Revelation 13:1

Beasts in prophecy are kings and kingdom Daniel 7:17 and 23

The bible also speaks about AN IMAGE OF THE "fourth" beast Revelation 13:15

See Perry Stone's comparism of ROME ( the 4th beast) and USA.

DECLARATION: I AM NOT SAYING THAT PERRY STONE BELIEVES AND TEACHES THAT AMERICA IS THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST

I am just asking to go to his website and see his comparism
---francis on 4/14/12


weatherbill, Yes the U.S. is in Bible prophecy.
---Eloy on 4/13/12


elo:

I have no trouble understanding what "worldwide" means. It means EVERYTHING THAT IS IN THE WORLD.

What YOU seem to not understand is that the United States WAS NOT PART OF THE WORLD 4300 years ago because it didn't even exist until 1776.

You are part of the world now, but you weren't alive 4300 years ago. Did the flood destroy YOU? I would think not. And for the same reason, it didn't destroy the United States either.
---StrongAxe on 4/13/12


Then why is it that the only people who ever talk about it are SDA and similar sabbatarian neo-galatian groups?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/13/12

Why do you not take the initiative and look it up?

I mean how hard can it be?
---francis on 4/13/12


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strongax, you seem to having difficulty in comprehending the meaning of the word, "worldwide". This means that the destructive flood is all inclusive, including all territorial, all political, and all geographical boundaries of the world. So let me suggest to you to strongax to, Give it up. For my Lord God says me that, "Every weapon sharpened against you will not succeed: and every tongue opposing you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of Yhwh, and their righteousness from me, says Yhwh."
---Eloy on 4/13/12


\\This is not a lie. This actually is a historical fact. This has nothing to do with SDA what so ever.\\

Then why is it that the only people who ever talk about it are SDA and similar sabbatarian neo-galatian groups?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/13/12


aka:

You said: but technically, Washington, DC is part of USA, INC. It is not in the united states for America.

Washington D.C. is within the United States of America (as are Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, etc.). It just isn't within any of the 50 states.
---StrongAxe on 4/12/12

yes, that is what i said: The District of Columbia (legal name, see act of 1871) is in the United States of America and not the united states for America. (see the original constitution not the one we have now.)
---aka on 4/13/12


1) The primary motivation behind stopping commerce on any one particular week day is religious,... so such a law would violate the First Amemdment.
---StrongAxe on 4/12/12

Understanding everything you just said. I urge you to read " national sunday law" See how America fits into bible prophecy.



\\321 AD Constantine decrees Sunday as offical Roman-Christian day of rest \\

This is a popular misconception that fits the paranoid fantasies of SDA, but is not true.
---Cluny on 4/12/12

This is not a lie. This actually is a historical fact. This has nothing to do with SDA what so ever.
---francis on 4/12/12


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francis:

In the U.S.:
1) The primary motivation behind stopping commerce on any one particular week day is religious, and varies by religion (Sunday for most Christians, Saturday for Jews and Seventh Day Adventists, Friday for Muslims), so such a law would violate the First Amemdment.
2) Without a specific secular benefit gained by universally banning commerce on one day, the government would have no basis to override the First Amendment. (e.g. murder and theft are against the Bible, and also harm society, which is why laws against them are permitted, and exist in every culture).

To pass such a law, one would first need to repeal the First Amendment. Good luck with getting 2/3 of America to agree with that!
---StrongAxe on 4/12/12


\\321 AD Constantine decrees Sunday as offical Roman-Christian day of rest \\

This is a popular misconception that fits the paranoid fantasies of SDA, but is not true.

All he did was to close government business on that day. Don't forget, most of the inhabitants of the empire were NOT Christians at that point.

There is NOTHING in Graeco-Roman paganism corresponding to the Jewish sabbath, as their division of days was the MONTH, not the week, and pagan religious festivals were held on a monthly or yearly basis, NOT weekly.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/12/12


Eloy:

You said: And when God destroyed the whole world in Noah's day, that included the US and the entire world, and not just localized to the Middle East or the mountains of Ararat.

The U.S. is a political entity whose geographical boundaries have changed frequently in the last 236 years, and did not exist 4300 years ago. The U.S.S.R. did not exist 100 years ago and does not exist now.

North America, the Middle East, and Ararat are all geographical designations that have NOT changed in thousands of years, and which WERE present 4300 years ago during the time of the flood.

I am not disputing the flood - just your claim that the U.S. was involved.
---StrongAxe on 4/12/12


National Sunday law by Jan Marcussen \\

No such thing will happen.
---Cluny on 4/12/12

321 AD Constantine decrees Sunday as offical Roman-Christian day of rest

It has happened in the past, and will happen again.

Look up "sunday blue laws."
---francis on 4/12/12


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strongax, as customary you are erring. For to be politically correct as I am, "worldwide" is exactly that, "including the U.S., the U.S.S.R., the European Union countries, every single land mass, every isle, every valley, every mountain top, every tree top, all completely covered 360 degrees around the whole entire globe, the whole planet being one big ball of water. The water was raised up over 25 feet above the highest mountain top on the earth, and every creature which had the breath of life in its nostrils drowned, save Noah and those with him on the ark. Gen.7:19,20. Yes "worldwide" included the North American continent, from Maine to Florida, to Washington to California, to Texas, all drowned.
---Eloy on 4/12/12


Eloy:

You said: And when God destroyed the whole world in Noah's day, that included the US and the entire world, and not just localized to the Middle East or the mountains of Ararat.

To be precise, While a global flood would have flooded the American continent (a geographical area), it could not have destroyed the U.S. (a political entity), since that entity would not even exist until around 4 thousand years later.


aka:

You said: but technically, Washington, DC is part of USA, INC. It is not in the united states for America.

Washington D.C. is within the United States of America (as are Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, etc.). It just isn't within any of the 50 states.
---StrongAxe on 4/12/12


\\1: National Sunday law by Jan Marcussen \\

No such thing will happen.

You don't actually believe this delusion of EGW, do you, francis?

How can you, when she was so wrong about so many other things she said?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/12/12


There are many books written about USA in prophecy

Try these books:
1: National Sunday law by Jan Marcussen
2: Daniel and the revealion by Uriah SMith
---francis on 4/12/12


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Can anyone show me ROME in bible prophecy?
---francis on 4/11/12


Yes, When scripture details the worldwide plagues, that includes the US and not just Israel. And when God destroyed the whole world in Noah's day, that included the US and the entire world, and not just localized to the Middle East or the mountains of Ararat.
---Eloy on 4/12/12


Is the US in Bible Prophecy?
---weatherbill on 4/11/12

Yes US is in bible prophecy just as Rome is.

The name " Rome" in not used in bible prophecy, neither is " USA or America." Only discriptions that make it clear that the nation spoken of can only be Rome or USA
---francis on 4/11/12


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