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Mt Sinai New Covnenant

What is the major difference between the Old Covenant made at Mt. Sinai and the New Covnenant made by Christ?

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"The only possible reason that could be is because man resists the call." LookImHiding

And you have the audacity to say you know what is salvation by grace? The reason "that man resists the call" is prove that they were never "chosen" by God. Never in the covenant of grace.

Christ declared, "For many are called, but few are chosen." Matthew 22:14 - it's only natural that those who are not "chosen" will reject the Truth, and that's because God never loved them at all. Now, how awesome is that?

Only God (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) knows how many the Father has chosen and only those chosen WILL BE SAVED.
---christan on 4/24/12


MarkV, what on earth was that boatload of nonsense??? Why are you changing the subject.

Are you drunk???

Was Abel "a Jew" after the flesh or after the Spirit?

We're talking about faith vs works. Not Israel or Jews you IDIOT of IDIOTS!

MarkV, the discussion is OVER and out with you. It's impossible to reason with a MORON!
---kathr4453 on 4/24/12


kathr4453 on 4/23/

Good posts
I like the way you post
I may not agree with everything you say, but no one agrees with everyone.
I like the manner in which you post. I like the fact that you use multiple scriptures for what you post

Good job
---francis on 4/24/12


You want to enter the kingdom of God without Christ, just because your a Jew.
---Mark_V. on 4/24/12

MarkV, didn't you say here one could WORK for salvation apart from Jesus Death and resurrection. The WORKS of the law IS trying to enter without Christ...of which that is what YOU are saying ...NOT ME.

I really believe you are mental. There is somethign seriously WRONG with you. You don't read, or pay attention. When have I ever stated one could enter the Kingdom WITHOUT CHRIST just because they are a Jew?

WHY do you LIE and make up things? Just to cause contension and confusion on line? SATAN is the author of confusion and the father of LIES. WHY do you always want to look as though he is your father?
---kathr4453 on 4/24/12


You're so full of love, Christan. It just ooozes from you.

Im asking a simple question. Why cant I get a simple answer without the insults?
---LookImHiding on 4/24/12




You clearly have no sense of what salvation by grace is about.
---christan on 4/23/12


Mark, I know exactly what salvation by grace is. I just believe God when he says it is his will to save everyone even though we know everyone will not be saved. The only possible reason that could be is because man resists the call. Anything else and youre calling God a liar.

One day you will have to admit to yourself that sometimes its better to admit that you dont know rather than to deny what is clearly written in scripture.
---LookImHiding on 4/24/12


".the exact POOR GRAMMAR and the exact same idiology of re-birthing man's spirit." kathr

Then according to you theory of deduction, that makes kathr, francis, Eloy, Ruben, Nana, LindaHelm, LookImHiding all the same person too, doesn't it?

Now you see how idiotic and ignoramus you sound?

Have you ran out of materials (not that any of them previously had any substance to begin with) that now you are trying to paint a picture of who's behind the names? How sad and frustrating it must be for you, having to worry about who MarkV and christan truly are.
---christan on 4/24/12


Kathr, if you stop talking so much, and just write down what your arguing, we could answer. Your accusations are evil, and have no room in godly matters. The promises of God are for the spiritual seed of Abraham, not the physical seed. They are not all Israel who are of Israel"(Rom. 9:6). There is an "Israel after the flesh" ( 1 Cor. 10:18) and an "Israel of God" (Gala. 6:16) made up of Jewish people and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah" To apply the "all Israel" which "will be saved" to a group of Jews who are separated from God's church is to deny the accomplishments of Jesus Christ on the Cross. You want to enter the kingdom of God without Christ, just because your a Jew.
---Mark_V. on 4/24/12


Galatians 3:12
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.


Believe what you want markv, and I'll believe what God says.

Night Night!!
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


MarkV,

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

You call God a liar saying the LAW annuled the promises made to Abraham. Sorry SCRIPTURE, that is GOD says otherwise.

So is this MAN'S doctrine? You don't believe Paul who would know. Read Romans 10.

Hebrews 11, going all the way back to the beginning of time says FAITH in Jesus Christ was the ONLY thing God counted as righteousness.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12




Let's stay on track here with the subject matter,and not create more smoke screens making it personal. No one CARES how you feel personally about anyone personally. So stop trying to cause a fullabuster here by starting a mud fight.

We all know chriatan and markV are one in teh same, as many here have asked the same question based on the same evidence...the exact POOR GRAMMAR and the exact same idiology of re-birthing man's spirit.

He avoids the question by accusing others.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


"Now, MarkV, I have a question for you. I noticed you are avoiding the accusation so Ill ask. Are you "Christan"?" LookImHiding

Outside of God Almighty who knows every soul He created and I know He's not talking to you, maybe you like to try and ask the Moderator whether MarkV and christan are one and the same person. The Moderator will know by virtue of the ISP we are blogging from. And since we're creatures, we cannot be at different places at the same time. Not even Satan has that ability. But he does have his disciples...
---christan on 4/23/12


francis, Jesus rose again on the 8th day. Yes He was buried and rose again three days later, just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days.

Saturday was the 7th day. Jesus rose the day AFTER the Sabbath day. Which is considered teh 8th day. Even OT talks about teh 8th day, one day after the sabbath. We knwo Jesus was still in the grave on the 7th/Sabbath day.

So when you say third, I believe you are comparing apples to oranges.

Passover was ON what day??

The 8th day is the dayrepresenting the NEW CREATION.

No Cluny, Born again of the Spirit of the Life of Christ was NEVER in OT Saints. Impossible. It's His Resurrection Life.

Prophets Kings Priests had the spirit ON THEM.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


Kathr, my doctrine is from Scripture, yours from man. you again said:

"You are wrong. Not even a works covenant such as teh Old Covenant could man save himself by WORKS."

He could if he could if he could keep the Law perfect. But he couldn't, and neither can you by your own free will. Only the perfect works of Christ in your behalf can save you. Only He was, is and always will be perfect.
If you want to discuss Scripture put down Bible passages. You talk and talk and twist what someone else says, with a few stones included. You teach heretical doctrines. Maybe because your a Jew, thinking all Jews will go to heaven. But you are wrong there too. Only those with saving faith in Christ perfect works will be saved.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/12


Romans 11:24 "For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?"
---Nana on 4/23/12


Kathr, now you are complaining, and want respect. As I said before to you, from the beginning I was trying my best to respect you, but you continued to throw it at my face. Then you use another name to throw more evil at us. The minute someone answers you with Scripture and the right of God to have mercy on whom He wills, evil words come out of your mouth. Some here whom we have oppose, jump on your wagon, completely disregarding the very word of God to argue on your behalf. You want respect, you have to repent to God and you will get respect. Otherwise you are just an angry woman opposing God's word that is given to you, and twisting the truth to a lie.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/12


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Lookwhoshiding, look who's talking you who hides behind another name

Yes Im doing it on purpose.. I think most people figured that out.

Now, MarkV, I have a question for you. I noticed you are avoiding the accusation so Ill ask. Are you "Christan"?
---LookImHiding on 4/23/12


lee, pt2
10 instructions from Jesus:

1. Blessed the humble of spirit- Mt.5:3
2. Blessed they that mourn- Mt.5:4
3. Blessed the mild- Mt.5:5
4. Blessed they seeking justice- Mt.5:6
5. Blessed the merciful- Mt.5:7
6. Blessed the clean of heart- Mt.5:8
7. Blessed the peaceable- Mt.5:9
8. Blessed those persecuted for righteousness- Mt.5:10
9. Blessed the maligned, and those spoken evil of falsely, because of Christ- Mt.5:11
10. Shine letting others see your Good Works- Mt.5:16
---Eloy on 4/23/12


\\God never put His Spirit in anyone UNTIL JESUS rose from the dead.
\\

Numbers 11:25
Numbers 11:26
Numbers 27:18
Judges 3:10
Judges 11:29
Judges 14:6, 19
1 Samuel 10:6
Job 27:3

and many others.

Who is right: kathr or the Bible?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/23/12


Old VS New Part 2

Old which came with Glory (2 Cor 3:7, Exodus 34:29-35)
New which came with the Greatest Glory (2 Cor 3:8-11)
Old whose Glory was Passing/Fading (2 Cor 3:7)
New whose Glory Continues to Shine (2 Cor 3:18)
Old Veiled or Covered Glory (2 Cor 3:12-16)
New n Unveiled, Ever-Increasing Glory (2 Cor 3:18)
Old Destined to be Done Away (2 Cor 3:11, Hebrews 7:12, 8:13, 10:9)
New Destined to Last Forever (2 Cor 3:11, Hebrews 13:20


Also cursing other Christians calling them of the devil is called WITCHCRAFT! It happened in Salem MA among the calvinists, and is again happening here. Only Calvinists would stoop so low! True Christians do not practice WITCHCRAFT.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


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francis, the 8th day is the day Jesus rise from the dead, bringing a NEW BEGINNING. ---kathr4453 on 4/23/12

Matthew 17:23 And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

Luke 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
Acts 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly,

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

My bible KJV says he rose on the THIRD DAY

I need to see 8th day in your version
---francis on 4/23/12


The 2 different Covenants:

The Levitical 10 commandments of the old testament delivered by Moses on the mount to the people- Ex.19:23- 20:17.

The Judaic 10 Beatitudes of the New Testament delivered by Jesus on the mount to the people- Mt.4:25-5:19.

Jesus commands us to follow his commandments alone, and not the letter of the law which leaven only puffs a person up but does not save them. For only repentance to Jesus brings real redemption.
---Eloy on 4/23/12


francis, the 8th day is the day Jesus rise from the dead, bringing a NEW BEGINNING. 8 in scripture always typify NEW BEGINNINGS. Also 8 souls saved...the 8 here too typifies a New Beginning.

Cross reference baptism into Jesus death in Colossians 2...Baptism into His Death is equated to circumcision.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12

I can see what you are saying
with the baptism, death adn circumcsion

But the fact is christ rose the THIRD DAY not the 8th day
---francis on 4/23/12


lee, part 1 of 2.
10 instructions from Moses:

1. Have no other Gods- Ex.20:3
2. Make no idols for worship- Ex.20:4,5
3. Do not use Gods name in vain- Ex.20:7
4. Keep the sabbath holy, no work on the sabbath- Ex.20:8,9
5. Honor your father and mother- Ex.20:12
6. Do not kill- Ex.20:13
7. Do not commit adultery- Ex.20:14
8. Do not steal- Ex.20:15
9. Do not bear false witness against your neighbor- Ex.20:16
10. Do not covet anything nor anyone that is your neighbors- Ex.20:17
---Eloy on 4/23/12


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christan, if you learned how to read and LISTEN, you would not become so confused as to what someone is saying. God never put His Spirit in anyone UNTIL JESUS rose from the dead.

Now again you all teach that there really was no need for Jesus death and resurrection.

NO ONE was made PERFECT until the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Obviously you don't understand the meaning of PERFECT do you?

So stop calling people of the devil because of your own stupidity and lack of understanding. I think we are ALL getting sick and tired of it! Ask questions and have a converstion first BEFORE condemning people.

Besides you have no power to condemn, although you may think otherwise.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


Old VS New,

Part one:
Old Moses as Minister (2 Cor 3:13-15, John 1:17, Heb 3:5)
New Jesus Disciples as Ministers (2 Cor 3:6, John 16:12-15)
Old of the Letter (2 Cor 3:6)
New of the Spirit (2 Cor 3:6-8)
Old Kills (2 Cor 3:6)
New which Gives Life (2 Cor 3:6 literally makes alive)
Old Ministry of Death (2 Cor 3:7)
New Ministry of Life (2 Cor 3:6)
Old Ministry of Condemnation (2 Cor 3:9)
New Ministration of Righteousness (2 Cor 3:9)
Old Written with Ink (2 Cor 3:3)
New Written with the Spirit of the Living God (2 Cor 3:3)
Old Written on Stone (2 Cor 3:3-7)
New Written on the Heart of Man (2 Cor 3:3, Jeremiah 31:33, Eze 11:19-20, 36:26

NEXT
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


Christan, you are quoting God's promise of the New Covenant. Yes, believe it or not the New Covenant was Prophesied in the Old. It didn't happen in the old.

francis, the 8th day is the day Jesus rise from the dead, bringing a NEW BEGINNING. 8 in scripture always typify NEW BEGINNINGS. Also 8 souls saved...the 8 here too typifies a New Beginning.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Cross reference baptism into Jesus death in Colossians 2...Baptism into His Death is equated to circumcision.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


Circumcision on the 8th day was a forshadow of the NEW DAY, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12

Actually the 8th day happens to be when a baby has the most clotting factors

It is the wisdom of God

But if you want to look at it spiritually, it is equated with the cross not the resurrection
Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised, only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
---francis on 4/23/12


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"God never gave man HIS SPIRIT when He circumcised THEIR hearts." kathr

"And I WILL GIVE THE ONE HEART, and I WILL PUT A NEW SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh" Ezekiel 11:19

You can say what you like but everytime Scriptures will contradict you of what you say. Put it bluntly in the words of Christ,

"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it." Amen.
---christan on 4/23/12


MarkV, I know according to YOUR doctrine you continue to say man could save himself by a WORKS Covenant.

You are wrong. Not even a works covenant such as teh Old Covenant could man save himself by WORKS.

And the ONLY WORKS Covenant in Scripture is the Mosaec covenent. BUT it still didn't promise salvation through WORKS.

You PRESUME God made a covenant with Adam.

He made a statement. YOU EAT YOU DIE.

The COVENANTS in scripture are clearly named...COVENANTS.

One was made with Noah...and you can clearly see and read the word COVENANT here, as well as what is in that Covenant PROMISE.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


You're a thoroughbred works monger. You are saying that God circumcise the heart of the sinner because he obeyed God. That is, God has to reward the man with His Spirit for his obedience. You have made God a debtor!

---christan on 4/23/12

Christan, that's not what was being addressed here.

God never gave man HIS SPIRIT when He circumcised THEIR hearts.

You are confusin the OLD with the NEW.

The NEW Covenant promises a NEW HEART and God's Spirit.

Not a circumcised heart and your old adams spirit re-birthed or re-incarnated.

Today God does not cirsumcise your heart. He circumcises your WHOLE FLESH in cutting it away totally. Colossians 2!
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


Kathr, the first covenant with man was a covenant of works after creation. In this covenant, Life was promised to "unsinful Adam," and in him to his posterity, upon condition of pefect and personal obedience. Life is promised as a blessing for satisfying the condition of the Covenant. Law is given in the beginning, and obedience to it functions as a stipulation for covenant blessing. The penalty for violating the covenant was death. The penalty was not limited to spiritual death, but also physical death. The covenant of grace was initiated by God towards "sinful human beings" in Gen. 3:15. Faith in Christ satisfies the condition of the covenant of works. Blessing, Spiritual life. Penalty, Spiritual death.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/12


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"but doesnt even bother to see that the REASON God circumsizes their heart is because they first "returned to the Lord and obeyed his voice" LookImHiding

You're a thoroughbred works monger. You are saying that God circumcise the heart of the sinner because he obeyed God. That is, God has to reward the man with His Spirit for his obedience. You have made God a debtor!

"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace, otherwise work is no longer work." Romans 4:4, 11:6

You clearly have no sense of what salvation by grace is about.
---christan on 4/23/12


Talk about spiritual BLINDNESS MarkV,

God never made a COVENANT with Adam that said OBEY AND you will receive eternal life.
Scripture tells us if Adam/Even never sinned, they would still be running naked in a very SMALL plot of land called the Garden of Eden. AND they would still be EARTHLY creatures, made out of the dust of the earth.
WAS this Gods ORIGINAL plan ? Was Jesus being for-ordained BEFORE the foundation of the world Gods PLAN B??
The very first COVENANT MarkV was the EVERLASTING Covenant made BEGORE the foundation of the world. That Covenant was between the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Therefore no such Covenant of SAVING YOURSELF ever existed, not even in the Mosaic Covenant.

Read Hebrews 13:20-21
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


"What difference?
---Nana on 4/22/12
Colossians 1:27 Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The difference is Christ in you enabling you to obey and not sin"
francis on 4/22/12

John 15:4: "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, no more can ye, except ye abide in me."
John 15:10: "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

The first step is yours francis, unless you are a child, retarded or are drinking from the same cup as your enemies...

No difference.

'LookImHiding' get my vote.
---Nana on 4/23/12


Deut 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Wouldn't it be nice if our salvation GUARANTEED the salvation of our seed. However, we know markv's son is not saved. With that, MAYBE just maybe markv, christan and leej have totally mis-applied this verse and taken out of context.

Circumcision on the 8th day was a forshadow of the NEW DAY, the day Jesus rose from the dead. Colossians 2 is that fulfillment of that circumcision.

BUT remember Romans 4, Abraham was imputed righteousness BY FAITH BEFORE CIRCUMCISION
---kathr4453 on 4/23/12


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Lookwhoshiding, look who's talking you who hides behind another name. And accuse others, you are a hypocrite. Hypocrites hide to throw stones at others. You are ashame with your own sin.

Those people returned to the Lord many times, and all the time they left. Their hearts were never circumsized by God, or they would have stayed circumsized, true to the Lord. To this day their hearts are still not circumsized by God. They are still rejecting the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/12


Kathr, you need spiritual sight to understand. God made a covenant with Adam, Obey and receive eternal life, disobey and they die. Adam had no choice in the matter. They died and took everyone with them. God again make a Covenant, the covenant again was of obedience, again in this covenant man had no rights to demand and agreement. Obey and get the blessings, disobey and get the curses. Under the Covenant of obedience no one found salvation by keeping it. To this day every descendant of Adam is condemned. The one's who found salvation were those that had saving faith in the God of Scripture and the coming Christ. That faith comes from God through rebirth. The Covenant of grace begin in ( Gen 3:15) when God promised a Redeemer.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/12


The worst part is he (MarkV/Christan)is throwing up Deut 30:6 to prove that God circumsizes their hearts, but doesnt even bother to see that the REASON God circumsizes their heart is because they first "returned to the Lord and obeyed his voice" (verse 2) and the big THEN in verse 3 which shows Gods actions in verses 4-6 are a reaction to their repentance.

Yet more scripture twisted.
---LookImHiding on 4/22/12


What difference?
---Nana on 4/22/12
Colossians 1:27 Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Colossians 3:1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Cor 13:5 Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The difference is Christ in you enabling you to obey and not sin

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness
---francis on 4/22/12


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Francis, I can. Translating Hebrew into English requires much more work than Greek into English because in addition to transliterating and translating the words, the scripture also needs transpositioning because the direction of Hebrew scripture is written and read backwards from "right-to-left", rather than being as English is written and read in the direction of "left-to-right".
For ex: after transliterating some Hebrew letters, we may have=
"BWT AWH MIHLE",
But then we have to transpose this from "right-to-left" into "left-to-right"= "ELHIM HWA TWB",
And then we have to translate this from Hebrew into English=
"GOD IS GOOD" or "God is good".
---Eloy on 4/23/12


What makes this blog really sad is all these christians who cannot post the exact wording of the old covenant.

If we want to talk about the old covenant intillegently, we should at least be able to correctly identify the
words of the old covenant.

Can anyone post the exact wording of the old covenant?
---francis on 4/22/12


Since Gentiles were NEVER under the Mosaec Covenant, and since in Adam ALL DIE period, sin was already JUDGED at the time of Adam's SIN. READ ROMANS 5 Christan MarkV and LeeJ.

The Mosaec Covenant was given to Israel for EARTHLY Blessings. If THEY obeyed, God would richly bless them in EARTHLY BLESSINGS. If they disobeyed, they would lose those earthly blessings. It had NOTHING to do with earning salvation or losing salvation.

The Law also POINTED TO SIN...that is sin is sin in all mankind, Jew and Gentile.

BUT from Adam to Moses SIN was not imputed HOWEVER DEATH WAS, IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE...but not according to the Mosaec Covenant.

Why all the sarcasm christan. Didn't YOU know this? It's right in Scripture.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/12


Deuteronomy 30:10_13 "If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul."

17 "But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them,..."

Colossians 3:5_6 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth, fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:"

What difference?
---Nana on 4/22/12


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"Here, it is up to each individual to circumcise his own heart. YOU circumcise YOUR heart" francis

How do you circumcise your own heart? I'm sure the whole world is waiting (without holding their breath) as to how to perform this task. A spiritual task, mind you!

Deuteronomy 30:6 merely tells you that Deuteronomy 10:16 was a command by God which is impossible for man to carry out. It demonstrates the total inability of man. That's why Christ declared to Hid disciples, when asked, "Who then can be saved? With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

But you say you can, so show it or shut it.
---christan on 4/22/12


Christan, Your flesh is out of control- Nail it to the cross, and live in the Spirit.
---Eloy on 4/22/12


"erbel" is a coined word of dyslexia. Derived from the word "rebel", and is a combine word of "error" + "rebellion" = "erbel".
---Eloy on 4/22/12


---christan PAY ATTENTION

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of YOUR heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Here, it is up to each individual to circumcise his own heart. YOU circumcise YOUR heart

Deut 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Here, God is the one who does the circumcision of the heart

Here is the NT reference:

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
---francis on 4/22/12


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Why not say then "As it is written by Eloy, "Accept it, and do not erbel against it." Erbel? Is that only found in Eloy's dictionary? You have been challenged about your understanding of the OT and NT and this is your reply because you have no answer? Wow! You really think you're god, don't you?

"why do you have to bash everything said here." kathr

O self-righteous one, maybe you should look yourself in the mirror and utter the very same words you accuse others of doing. If Eloy is right according to you, that's your opinion. I do not need to concur with you especially Scripture says otherwise. I only concur with Scriptures. And Scripture always contradict your understanding.
---christan on 4/22/12


kathr4453, A-men.
---Eloy on 4/22/12


Leej, what Christan stated is correct. The Old Testament, or Old Covenant was a Covenant of obedience of the Law even to this day. Everyone who is lost, is under that Covenant. They are lost for breaking that Covenant of obedience. The New and better Covenant of grace was set by God from the beginning (Gen. 3:15). There is no salvation for any who are under the Law (without Christ). There are many covenants in the Old Testament but they are all of obedience of the Law. The Old Covenant of obedience was not abolished by Jesus, it was fulfilled by Him for all those who believe by faith in His works on the cross. Anyone teaching Old Covenant Law is presumed to be under the written Letter of the Law and not under the Spirit of the Law.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/12


Eloy is correct, as this is written in 2 Corinthians 3.

So christan, why do you have to bash everything said here.

You also need to Read Hebrews 12 as well.

Eloy is correct.

God's wrath and judgement to come is not based on the Covenant made with Israel at Mt. Sinai.

God's WRATH during the FLOOD at the time of Noah had no Covenant made first at Mt. Sinai either.

The JUDGEMENT to come will be like the time of NOAH,
---kathr4453 on 4/22/12


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chrisatan, What I am saying is exactly and precisely what I posted, nothing more and nothing less: Accept it, and do not add your words to it, and do not take away words from it. Do not corrupt my words: The old testament of the ministry of death was inadequate, else Jesus had no need to come and give us his New Testament of the ministry of Life. Accept it, and do not erbel against it.
---Eloy on 4/21/12


"The old covenant was vengeance, and The New Covenant is forgiveness." Eloy

So according to you: there's no vengeance today by God? Paul revealed in the NT, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" Romans 1:18

Are you also implying that no one in the OT was ever forgiven by God?

FYI, God's grace which includes His mercy was in existence at Eden when He spoke "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Genesis 3:15 - and was demonstrated in the first saint called Abel.
---christan on 4/21/12


"The First, under the old covenant is to be done by human effort." francis

Say what??? Is that what EGW teaches you? Remember Christ words, "they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch"

Maybe you should try reading Hebrews 11 and tell us if the OT saints mentioned in there were saved by their "human effort"? There's no one who's going to heaven, including the OT saints outside of "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

No one!
---christan on 4/21/12


---christan on 4/21/12
Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Deut 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.


Can you tell the difference?

The First, under the old covenant is to be done by human effort. "Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do"

The other under the new covenant is done by the spirit of God. "Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you"

That is the difference in the two
---francis on 4/21/12


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\\This post can only be understood by those who have wisdom:\\

But you do NOT cast out devils, francis.

If you believe the ravings of EGW, you are hearkening to demons, and are ensnared by them yourself.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/21/12


francis, the Holy Spirit is God. He is Omniscient. He is present everywhere. He was in the Old Testament as well in the New. In the Old Testament His ministry was to come upon, indwell some, guide others to do His work. Some times the Spirit left those He was upon. In the New Testament His mission was to indwell all believers permenantly. Something that was not done in the Old Testament permenantly.
This is not talking about the Spirit bringing someone to Life (born again) this is talking about indwelling believers permenantly with the gifts necessary for each of them.
---Mark_V. on 4/21/12


The old covenant was vengeance, and The New Covenant is forgiveness. The old abolished levitical-Mosaic law decrees death (an eye for an eye, a tooth for tooth, and a life for life), and the New in force Judaic-Messianic Law decrees Life ("Care for the enemies of you, bless those cursing you, do well to those hating you, and pray over them that shame you and persecute you"). Please Read- Matthew 5:38-48.
---Eloy on 4/21/12


francis, Jeremiah 31:31 (also in Ezekiel) clearly speaks about regeneration which was then confirmed by Christ in John 3. But Spiritual regeneration was already spoken of as early as in Deuteronomy 10:16 when God commanded Israel, "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked."

And again in Deuteronomy 30:6, where God reveals to Moses how it'll be done "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

If only you bother to read the Scriptures accordingly and not throw your own smoke bombs as and when you like. You only confuse yourself.
---christan on 4/21/12


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This post can only be understood by those who have wisdom:

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
---francis on 4/21/12


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant...Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers... But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel,.. I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

What is different in the new covenant, that is not according to the old covenant is that God promises to WRITE his laws in our hearts

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
---francis on 4/20/12


---christan on 4/20/12
Bottom line : Do you see any reference in the OlD COVENANT ( EXODUS 19) about holy spirit?

DO you see the Hol,y spirit in the new testement covenant promise


In case you do not see it. I have already posted it
---francis on 4/20/12


"The difference is the promise of the holy spirit was bnot not asked for, nor promised in the old covenant" francis

There was no need to ask for the Spirit, it was already present according to God's will. "And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the Spirit of wisdom Exodus 28:3, "And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge" Exodus 31:3

And the Holy Spirit was not present in the Old Testament? Open your eyes, since you have 'free-will'. There are hundreds of verses in the OT that speaks of the Holy Spirit presence. Blasphemer!
---christan on 4/20/12


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St. Paul in Galatians says that the Old Covenant on Mt. Sinai "engendereth to bondage."

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/20/12


Christan //lee1538, no one can go to Christ without the law, that's why the law is a "schoolmaster".

Agree with you up to a point. However, there are laws in the Old Covenant that are not moral laws and were given only to the nation of Israel. Those laws will undoubtedly not convict anyone of sin.

For instance, doubt if the Holy Spirit would convict me is I lite a fire in my home on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:3
---lee1538 on 4/20/12


The difference between the two is this:
In the Old covenant, the holy spirit is never asked for, neither is it promised to obey "All that the LORD hath spoken."

In the New Covenant, God promises to give us his holy spirit that we may obey "All that the LORD hath spoken."
---francis on 4/11/12
---francis on 4/20/12


yes, Francis and other SDAs always quote verses out of their context.
In quoting Jeremiah 31:33 they never view the previous verses.
---lee1538 on 4/19/12

Pay attention closer next time.

Because jJrimiah does not say HOW this covenant will be different. I used Eiekel and peter to sho whow it is different


Also when I showed exactly whatthe old covenant was, I pointed out that the holy ghost / God's help was never saught or promised in doing all that God commanded


Then I used Galations and romans to show it's impact

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION
---francis on 4/20/12


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lee1538, no one can go to Christ without the law, that's why the law is a "schoolmaster". And what does the law do to the sinner? It slays him - meaning, telling him that he's finished and death awaits. But God in His mercy and grace because of His love toward His elect provides a way - faith in Jesus Christ - hence salvation is only by grace. Isaiah stood before God and declared, "Woe is me! for I am undone, because I am a man of unclean lips", he say the law, who was God.

That's why the Spirit reminds the Christian daily till the end, that his salvation is only by the grace of God. On the account of faith in Christ, the Christian has fulfilled the law. For the unbelievers, the law is after them.
---christan on 4/19/12


yes, Francis and other SDAs always quote verses out of their context.
In quoting Jeremiah 31:33 they never view the previous verses.

(31:31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(31:32) NOT ACCORDING to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

But they need to support their view that the Old Covenant laws are still in effect, that Jesus did not fulfill much of anything at the Cross.
---lee1538 on 4/19/12


Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So here it is in the New testement. the blessing of Abraham ( Righteousness by faith) comes to us through Jesus christ, that we may receive the promise of the holy ghost by faith

This holy spirit then lives within us and guides us into righteous living. This is righteousness by faith

It is only when we do not listen to the holy spirit that we sin. And yet 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

and this is righteousness by faith
---francis on 4/19/12


Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The new covenant promises the power of the holy spirit which enables us to obey all Gods laws
---francis on 4/19/12


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Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him. And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD

This above is the OLD COVENANT a verbal agreement that they woudl obey ALL that God said and God would in turn be thier God and bless them
---francis on 4/19/12


What is the major difference between the Old Covenant made at Mt. Sinai and the New Covnenant made by Christ?
---lee1538 on 4/18/12

Did we not just have teh same question a few days ago?

The difference is the promise of the holy spirit was bnot not asked for, nor promised in the old covenant

the old covenant is NOT THE LAW, it is the promise to do all that God commands

the new covenant promises the spirit of God to enabel us to keep the law
---francis on 4/19/12


Christan - if the Old and New Testament are the one and the same, then most certainly the tenets of one would also be the tenets of the other. But I do not see that.

In the Old Covenant, we have the law which according to the New Covenant tells us was but a guardian or schoolmaster to bring us to Christ so that we could be justified by faith. And once faith came, we no longer needed the guardian.

And with that the Old Covenant became obsolete. Hebrews 8:13

I believe that to be fairly clear.
---lee1538 on 4/19/12


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