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Spiritual Regeneration

How important is "spiritual" regeneration in Christianity? Does it then mean that everyone born into this world is dead since Christ taught of "spiritual" regeneration? If they are not dead, why does the "spirit" needs to be born of the "Spirit"?

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 ---christan on 4/18/12
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At the time of Isaac and Rebecca, when a girl reached a certain age, her duty was to make an advantageous marriage. Frequently, she had no say about her spouse.

I can imagine her family telling her, "Abraham is a rich man. His son Isaac will inherit all his sheep, tents, and possessions. You can't possibly do better."

Yes, Genesis says that Isaac loved her, but it NEVER says that Rebecca loved Isaac.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


CraigA, I'm glad you understand what I was saying.

Does MarkV really know what love is? Human love is not love if it's forced. How much higher is God's love than human love.

I know Markv loves the fact that his wife loves him, and out of her own "free will" chose to marry him.

In a marriage vow, BOTH take those vows out of their FREE WILL. (Unless of coarse you're forced into a shot gun wedding). I would say the majority of those don't last.

God wants those who want Him. He took the first step in showing man how much He loves us. All we have to do is say I DO!
---kathr4453 on 5/1/12


What I cant understand is why Mark thinks God needs to MAKE people love him. ---CraigA on 5/1/12

Absolutely. He is made to sound like one who does what we would call evil if a man was to do the same thing.
---Daughter_of_God on 5/1/12


I understood what you meant Kathr when you said Mark raped his wife.. I know you didnt mean sexually, but that he forced her to be his wife without it mattering if she regardless of what she wanted, trying to show him that is what he says God does to his bride.

What I cant understand is why Mark thinks God needs to MAKE people love him.
---CraigA on 5/1/12


CraigA, I appreciate what you are saying.

Maybe this point was missed here. Rebecca was not taken against her will. NOR was she "given to Isaac by her father against her will" or unknowingly.

To suggest one is taken as a member of Christ's Body aka His Bride, having no will at all to accept or reject is NEVER taught in scripture.

Anything else is called rape. Look at Tamar and Absolum, and Dianna. Both had devestating consequences!
---kathr4453 on 5/1/12




Tom, I know you like to parrot MarkV. I have read all of kathr4453's last 20 posts and can find nothing of which you accuse her.

You have accused both kathr4453 and ginger but have no evidence. I see neither one making any hateful remarks.

If you don't want to debate, but rather sit on the sidelines mocking and causing trouble, maybe it's you who shows no salvation or indwelling Holy Spirit.

I've never had respect for sideline sports participants.
---James on 5/1/12


Instead of looking at the child molester or murderer, think of what the Spirit of Christ can make of THAT man instead!"- craig

In your believes, the Spirit of God can do nothing to the child molester or murderer, the molester has to give God permission, since he has the power over God. --MarkV///

No, God REQUIRES him to REPENT before God will FORGIVE him and change him, MarkV.


Actually, Craig is saying that God can change the child molester.

It sounds like MarkV is saying that God made the molester, molest somebody.
That is not what Scripture says.
It says That God does not tempt us. God is not the author of any kind of sin.
---ginger on 5/1/12


Kathr, it was I who suggested that MarkV or possible someone very close to him was molested. I have no proof of it, but his words seems to indicate something very close to that.

Those who haven't dealt with the pain of what happened might somehow find peace in believing that is was Gods will they went through it.

While I don't think that is the case with rape because of the lifelong psychological consequences it has on its victims, I'm reminded of the words of Jesus concerning the man who was blind from birth. Jesus explained his blindness wasnt a punishment, but an opportunity for God to show his healing power thru that man. Imagine if the man had refused to be healed
---CraigA on 5/1/12


Bad analogy, kathr.

If you continue with your story of Isaac and Rebecca, it's obvious theirs was NOT a happy marriage, and they clearly had different agendas.

Try again.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


If you care to look in Genesis you will see a PICTURE of Christ and His BRIDE. Isaac and Rebecca.

Now Abraham sent his servant, a type of the Holy Spirit to find a bride for Isaac. Rebecca was not taken against her will. Abraham said to his servant, IF she come not with you, DO NOT GO BACK. There was not guarantee Rebecca would go. However Rebecca went of her own FREE WILL.

Funny too, Then we have Jacob. He had to WORK for both his wives. 7 years for each, and was in bondage to his father in law until the debt was paid.

He had TWO WIVES.

Was Isaac indebted to Rebecca's father?

Meditate on that. The Lord will show you the truth here...IF YOU REALLY SEEK His truth.
---kathr4453 on 5/1/12




There is also a false doctrine that Rachel represents Israel and Leah represents Gentiles.

BUT let me ask you, did God REALLY TRICK Jesus into taking Gentiles as a bride?

Did Jesus just wake up one morning and say EEEKKKS! You see, Jocob was tricked, and deceived and did not LOVE Leah.

Is this a true picture of Christ and His Bride?

Isn't the Bride of Christ taken out of both Jew and Gentile making ONE NEW MAN, no longer Jew or Gentile.

I know how Calvinists want to Identify with Jacob/Israel.

However IN ISAAC will thy seed be called. The Spiritual Children.
---kathr4453 on 5/1/12


Kathr, it didn't take long for you to bring my wife into your comments. Rapist you call me. But you will not get me to sin. You can tempt me all you want. As I said before you are an evil lady. Only very bad things come out of your mouth. All the talk about Christ in you, went down the drain. It was all fake.
---Mark_V. on 5/1/12


It's also interesting how markv holds unforgivness in his heart concerning child molertation etc. And I heard markv was possibly molested in the RCC. What a bitter pill that must be to swallow. Isn't it possible that is what has attracted him to Calvinism unknowingly?

It gives a perfect excuse of having no will. Children abused this way have no will of their own to SAY NO! This bondage continues through out their whole life, as now Satan has them in bondage believing they are loved rather than in bondage against their will, of which they are brainwashed to believe they have no will of their own.

Just get a broom markv, and start beating the walls, and say to God, "I'm mad as HELL and I'm not going to take it anymore".
---kathr4453 on 5/1/12


Some believe my comments here are hateful and awful,.. not all. They come out of a heart of love. I know what it is to be told you have "no will" of your own. I lived that all my life UNTIL I got saved. I was abused all my life. The same bondage Calvinism teaches. Your a worm, your nothing, your depraved, worthless, until I was the victim of rape. WHY, because I had no will of my own to SAY NO.

All those hateful things markv says to me and others. Same ol same ol abuse.

I don't hate markv, but I do know his mental and emotional and spiritual abuse is wrong and evil. WHERE did he get that? By not being DELIVERED from his own abuse. He's in bondage and wants you to be in bondage too! He can't stand your FREEDOM!
---kathr4453 on 5/1/12


Kathr, you are one disturbed person. clearly you are not all there in your head. another thing is sure, you are not one of the saved. it looks like every single day your nasty words increase. you give christians a bad rap. i will pray that god does a supernatural miracle and change you to a good person.
---Tom on 4/30/12


even though Tom does not use capitals as i usually don't, it is not me. i would never capitalize the first letter of my name.
---aka on 4/30/12


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Kathr, is that the way a Godly woman speaks? Isn't this a Christian website?

By the way, I believe that God takes out the cold and stony heart and replaces it with a fealing heart that cries out Abba Father. We are dead until God quickens us. Dead men have no desire to follow Christ. Once we are born again we have a desire to "accept him as our personal Saviour". We have a desire to be baptized, and to serve him.
---trey on 4/30/12


Craig, your a hypocrite, you believe man has to allow Christ to come into his heart, that God has no rights. markV,

Oh please don't tell me Markv, YOU raped your to be wife..correct. You wanted her and just took her...raped her..right? You don't believe a woman has a right to choose YOU for her husband. You told her didn't you! I want you, you're mine and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Then you RAPED her!

We have Prisions full of perverts like you!

I wonder exactly how RAPE became illegal. If God can RAPE, why can't man.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/12


Is there anyone here that has NOT been accused of being Kathr? lol
---CraigA on 4/30/12


Mark, are you saying that it is Gods will for a man to molest a child? I mean if God has power over that man, then He could stop it... IF He wanted to right? SO naturally since God didnt STOP the man from raping the child He must have wanted it to happen!

See how ridiculous your denial of God giving us choice is becoming?

Also, if man has no ability to resist Gods will then a woman should be able to cast off her attacker by commanding him in the name of Jesus to leave her alone! We do the same with evil spirits every day! But that wont work on a man now will it, Mark?

The truth is staring you in the face. Why will you not accept it?
---CraigA on 4/30/12


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you also mentioned that the spirit does not regenerate you, that he makes you over brand new. where is that even written?
---Tom on 4/30/12

Simple Tom, one of my favorite verses:

2 Cor 5:17 "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature, the old things passed away, behold, new things have come"
---Mark_Eaton on 4/30/12


Ginger, TOM is MarkV and accuses anyone who agrees with me as being me. Everyone knows this. Also hiding behind TOM to make you look bad.

What a putz!

No MarkV/TOM Jesus was not created. Why do you believe anyone who believes in free will believes Jesus was created.

What a PUTZ!
---kathr4453 on 4/30/12


Again, Thanks Kathr!

Tom, not sure what you are talking about. I am me and Kathr is her. We simply agree, that's all.

MarkV, you sound confused again brother.
Christ was not a physical being like you or me when he created the whole universe.
He did not put on flesh or step out of the portals of glory until he was begotten by God and carried by Mary.
You keep calling me a heretic, its okay. I know Christ was flesh and blood when he died on the cross.
I know he was the word of God and existed outside of time before he did this.
You on the other hand don't seem to understand the 2 natures that existed in Christ when he walked the earth. How else do you think he was the perfect sacrifice?
---ginger on 4/30/12


Ginger, AMEN!! I totally agree with your last statement 100%.

It's satan who wants to rob God of as many souls as he can. It's God who sent His Son to REDEEM man back from satan. Does MarkV really believe it's God's WILL that Satan be handed over without any hope those lost at the fall except for a few God picked through first?

Does he actually believe this conversation went on.

"Oh here Lucifer, let me pick and choose those I want, and you can have the rest."

That NUTS!

It only shows how ungrounded they are in Scripture. That's only due to a false Covenant they call The covenant of Grace OR/and a verse that doesn't exist: (the "spirit" is born of the "Spirit",).
---kathr4453 on 4/30/12


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Craig, your a hypocrite, you believe man has to allow Christ to come into his heart, that God has no rights. Then say:

"Instead of looking at the child molester or murderer, think of what the Spirit of Christ can make of THAT man instead!"

In your believes, the Spirit of God can do nothing to the child molester or murderer, the molester has to give God permission, since he has the power over God.
Your a hypocrite, speak of one thing, then argue against the very thing you claim to believe. Why don't you pray to the molester, and not God, since the molester has power over God. Just pray to the molester, "please child murderer, change you mind, God is knocking, give Him permission" You hypocrite.
---Mark_V. on 4/30/12


ginger, you say you know all about Jesus Christ and claimed He was created. Your Arian heretical views are well known through history.
The Christ of the Scriptures is God, and a God who is not eternal is not God,
"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all thing were created by Him, and for Him: and He is before all things, and by Him all thing consist" (Col. 1:16,17).
And you claim He was created. More heretical views and no wonder Kathr gives you amens, you have got to be her.
---Mark_V. on 4/30/12


ginger, why do you thank yourself? it sounds kind of crazy to use another name. It is ok to use your own name. you also mentioned that the spirit does not regenerate you, that he makes you over brand new. where is that even written?
are you claiming you are without sin? when you sin everyday.
---Tom on 4/30/12


Thanks Kathr, I won't. I know what the Bible says about Jesus.

He was begotten like all of us. The special difference was God is his daddy!
For those who don't believe that He was a human being and God, had a fleshly HUMAN body, born of a woman, nailed to the cross, bled and died for all our sins and rose again with a glorified body (what we will have when he comes back, praise God!) is not teaching the real gospel!
Him rising again, giving us his spirit when we believed on him. Him making us new creatures. It is all him.
We have regeneration of the mind BUT new Creatures IN CHRIST. He don't regenerate you, he makes you over BRAND NEW!!
---ginger on 4/29/12


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MarkV, I have enough fear of God to know that when He says He does not delight in the death of men but wants all men to be saved (so much that He allowed us to torture him to death), not to ignore his words. Your made up doctrine will not change the fact that if you dont forgive... YOU WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN (Matt 18:23-35, Matt 6:15)

Instead of looking at the child molester or murderer, think of what the Spirit of Christ can make of THAT man instead! None of us deserved forgiveness! That includes YOU! It should give you great joy to see a man guilty of such vile sins turn to Jesus Christ and be changed by his love! If it doesn't then you either aren't living by the Spirit of Christ or have never experienced his love yourself.
---CraigA on 4/29/12


christan and markv still have not produced that verse that says " the "spirit" is Born of the "Spirit".

Question, did Adam & Eve have a belly button? Ans NO. A belly button is proof you had a Mother.

Did Jesus Christ have a belly button? I do believe He did.

Many want to believe Jesus was just placed inside Mary's womb, yet not really attached to her, whereby she gave life to Him.

ginger, don't let markv mess with you.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/12


Craig, you lied just to try and demean me, because I said, God choose His elect from the foundation of the world. I never said He delighted in killing or torturing anyone, you did. You have no fear of God when you speak against Scripture. That He choose anyone to be saved is the miracle for no one deserves to be saved, for they have sinned against God and deserve nothing but punishment. God never delight in punishing the wicked, they are wicked because they love their wickedness agains't a Holy God. Instead of complaining you should be thankful you are saved, if you are. At least for a day speak to bring glory to God. Not for the father of lies.
---Mark_V. on 4/29/12


The reason I point out about the belly button is this. Adam was created by God, not birthed. Adam was not a begotten son. Adam had no belly button.

If Jesus had no belly button, that would mean Jesus was too created by God.

He could not truly be of the seed of David either, if He were created.

Markv believes Jesus was begotten/ BIRTHED sometime in eternity past, also
stating by that Jesus, whos name THEN (and still is) was the Word who Is God was not ALWAYS with God from the beginning. This doctrine believes Jesus was "GENERATED" from the Father before His incarnation.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/12


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Amen Kathr!
They just don't get it.
maybe it is because they are men and can't carry a baby.
I know God took an egg from Mary and fertilized it with his spirit and begot Jesus as his son.
He was both man and God.
The flesh used to begot Jesus was descnded from Israel because Mary was of Israel.
The whole lump which is Israel from them, Jesus was born.
They don't realize when they deny Jesus was descnded from the jews, they deny is human flesh which was nailed to the cross and sacrficed for us all. From that sacrifice, he gave us the Holy Spirit.
---ginger on 4/29/12


I've never stated Jesus was/is a created being.

To be made flesh, or to take on the seed of Abraham is not created.

The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son.

Let's remember our definitions of words.

Begotten is opposite of created.

Adam and Eve were CREATED. Angels were created. Those born of Adam/Eve and all humanity after are begotten, or birthed. Just read the geanologies. Begot him who begot him etc.

CREATION ended on the 6th day.

WE too who are Born Again are not created, but BEGOTTEN Sons through Jesus Christ.

That's why man's so called man spirit is not rebirthed.

You can't rebirth what you never possessed to begin with.

Man did not inherit one less rib either through Adam.
---kathr4453 on 4/28/12


Ginger/Kathr, I will tell you why, Jesus Christ is not a created being. He is God who was incarnated in a human body. He is from everlasting.
--MarkV

So I guess Mary didn't carry Jesus for 9 months , feel him move inside of her and give birth to him. Is that what you are saying?
If so, what was nailed to the cross?
Are you saying that God lied when he says he went to Mary?
Are you saying that the Holy spirit did not overshadow Mary?
Really, all of these scriptures are false then?
According to you, MarkV that is.
---ginger on 4/28/12


I have never said God delights in the death of others, have never said He enjoys torturing anyone.--MarkV

Mark if you claim He doesnt want to save everyone, then that is exactly what you are saying. Can you not see that?
---CraigA on 4/28/12


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Ginger/Kathr, I will tell you why, Jesus Christ is not a created being. He is God who was incarnated in a human body. He is from everlasting.
Though accomplished in the fullness of time, it was resolved upon before time, decreed and enacted in heaven by the Eternal Three. "The Lamb slain from the foundation (or founding) of the earth" (Acts 2:23).
If that is not good enough for you nothing is.
---Mark_V. on 4/28/12


Craig, you are a liar, and a hypocrite. I have never said God delights in the death of others, have never said He enjoys torturing anyone. You are a liar and a hypocrite. Instead of lying why do you not provide some Truth for a change. At least one day of your life, use it for the glory of God. Because you are doing it for the glory of your father who is a master liar.
---Mark_V. on 4/28/12


Then you claim that "rebirth" is not "born again" So please tells us what "rebirth" means?
---Mark_V. on 4/20/12

Sorry, I have been away.

I cannot tell you what rebirth means because rebirth is nowhere in the Bible. New birth, born anew, born from above is what Jesus describes in John 3.

Regeneration is synonymous for new birth. The only excepttion is when people use it to indicate a renovation of taking a dead spirit and making it alive. The proper term for that type of renovation is metamorphosis, translated in the Bible as "transformed".
---Mark_Eaton on 4/27/12


ginger, there is nothing wrong with what you are saying. They must have another Jesus, not the one of scripture.

They also believe the Man Christ Jesus was around when Abel put his faith in teh coming redeemer, stating this MAN Christ Jesus had to quicken Abel before Abel could have faith to believe.

Their heretics Ginger. But do you think they will admit they are. Of coarse not.

It's a war, and they are waring against the saints to try to wear us out.

We all know markV and christan are not of the same faith or belief as many here.

Don't worry, we all know they make up stuff to make YOU/ ME and everyone else look bad..so they can look good.

WEEE little men made of flesh, have NO POWER over God's SAINTS!
---kathr4453 on 4/27/12


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Am I the only one who understands that Christ's fleshly body was descended from the jew?

The Bible says he was one of them, they were his people! And they did not receive him.

Tell me why MarkV says it is heretical to say Christ's fleshly body was made of flesh and blood? Wasn't his mother Mary flesh and blood?
And wasn't that what was nailed to the Cross? His fleshly body?

What is heretical about this?
Someone please tell me!

I understand that Christ was both flesh and GOD.

BUT, Christ did not just appear out of heaven, he was born of a woman. The Bible says this.
So, why is it heretical?
---ginger on 4/27/12


This may be worth repeating:

Revelation 3

Buy of me Gold tried in the fire that you may be rich, and salve for your eyes, ears etc. so that you may SEE.


Now, if God has already GIVEN you eyes and ears to see and hear...WHY THE REBUKE?

Is God rebuking the LOST or the Saved?

Either way, doesn't matter.

Some claim they see and hear and see and hear NOTHING worth seeing and hearing.
---kathr4453 on 4/27/12


Worth repeating:
Ginger, I'm a little confused here.
You said: Jesus is the vessel of honor made from the same lump.

Made of the same lump?
Or better said, made?
Joh_8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath, I am from above: ye are of this world, I am not of this world.
Seem to me, Jesus is not the same lump.
He made the lump, didn't he?

Rom 9:24-25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people, and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Help me out Here!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/26/12
---Mark_V. on 4/27/12


Who said anything about Jesus not having a soul and spirit? NOT ME.

But PERHAPS if you have taken something I said and TWISTED it to say somethong I didn't, is ANYONE HERE SURPRISED???

You're a MASTER artist at that very thing including the Word of God.

OR are you again changing the subject BECAUSE you cannot defend WITH SCRIPTURE the subject at hand.

SUBJECT:

SPITIT rebirthing our man spirit.

SCRIPTURE PLEASE. You've been asked 10 times, and still fail to answer the question.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/12


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I warn you for your own soul, do not speak heretical views if you do not understand--MarkV

This is the very thing YOU do when you claim that God delights in the death of men and in fact predestines it when He declares He does NOT and would rather men know the truth, repent and be saved!

Save your warnings for yourself. When you cease to reword scripture you are given, THEN and only then can you claim to carry the "Truth"
---CraigA on 4/26/12


MarkV
You show your ignorance.
Christ's fleshly body came from the JEWS, Jesus was a JEW. From the same lump...hello! His mother Mary was a descendant of king David.
It is not blasphemy to state where Christ's fleshly body came from. IT IS TRUTH!
Christ IS the vessel of honor that came from the same lump...lineage, bloodline as the Jews who are the vessel of dishonor.



Christ
---ginger on 4/26/12


Kathr, Jesus Christ possessed a human rational soul and spirit. (Matthew 26:38) Christ said to His disciples
"My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death" This could hardly be attributed to His divine nature and therefore is a reference to the fact that He possessed a human soul.
A similar statement is given in (John 13:21) in regard to His human spirit where it is recorded,
"When Jesus had thus said, He was troubled in the spirit" From these and other scriptures it is evident that Christ possessed a true humanity not only in its material aspects as indicated in His human body, but in the immaterial aspects as specified in Scripture as being His soul and spirit, though without a sinful nature.
---Mark_V. on 4/26/12


Ginger, what you are saying is the same herectical ideas Kathr gives. You think its ok to just blaspheme Christ and who He is without been judge by God but you are wrong. I warn you for your own soul, do not speak heretical views if you do not understand something correctly. You said Jesus was created. He was not created, He is the Eternal Son of God.
You said:

"Christ is the vessel of honor created from the same lump as the vessel of dishonor. Christ came from the jews!

If you don't know how to speak about Christ without stripping Him of His deity, don't speak about Him until you know.
---Mark_V. on 4/26/12


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amen craig and kath!

We obtain mercy by having faith in christ (Romans 9).
If we read all of Romans 9 in context, we find that the vessel of dishonor is not all mankind but the jews who refused to believe in Christ(not all jews).
Christ is the vessel of honor created from the same lump as the vessel of dishonor. Christ came from the jews!
We see that our righteousness comes from having faith in Christ and being in CHRIST, the vessel of honor!

Kath, I loved it when you spoke of the remnant, by the way, that was truly awesome.
We see in v4 that the Israelites are who the adoption and election were originally given to.
---ginger on 4/26/12


Did Jesus really rebirth our corruptable flesh? NOPE, He certainly DID NOT!!
---kathr4453 on 4/26/12


Not one verse in scripture says our spirit is rebirthed by His Spirit. It's just not there.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/12


Amen! Thats why Jesus gives us HIS Spirit.
---CraigA on 4/26/12


MarkV,
Man is not spirit and soul.
he is a LIVING SOUL.
Read your bible.
Genesis!
God created Adam from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils and he became a LIVING SOUL.
That is what we are.

Jesus was different. The second adam was both GOD and Man.
Kath is very right. Not sure where you get your info from, though MarkV, cause it is wrong.
---ginger on 4/26/12


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Markv, does not believe::
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy, the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/12


Kathr, you attack every topic mentioned in Scripture as you were destine to do. No matter what Truth we are speaking of, you find a way of attacking it. You say,
1. you can come to Christ without faith, you get everything later.
2. the Holy Spirit did not indwelled anyone in the Old Testament.
3. Jesus Christ is not the eternal Son of God.
4. Now, like any herectic, you try to confuse the two natures of Christ. In His humanity, He had a spirit and a soul just like every human being, but without a fallen nature. In His Divine nature He is God and needs no spiritual rebirth. God the Spirit raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the physical death. He is the Shepherd of the sheep. Through the blood of (what?) everlasting covenant.
---Mark_V. on 4/26/12


Here is something one needs to think about. IF in fact our man spirit is rebirthed , one is stating our man spirit has the "power" to put to death/mortify the deeds of the flesh. Romans 8:11-13

But Hebrews 13:20-21 says otherwise, unless you believe Jesus too was REBIRTHED when He rose from the dead.

If we walk in the Spirit, (( again what or who's spirit)) we won't give way to the flesh.

Is the FRUIT of the Spirit really our own fruit? Love Joy Peace???

And by this same Spirit of which we bear fruit, we also crucify the flesh..Galatians 5:21-25.


Is this not teaching one becomes a little god?

Not one verse in scripture says our spirit is rebirthed by His Spirit. It's just not there.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/12


Flesh and blood cannot "enter" the Kingdom of God. So flesh and blood cannot see it either. Flesh meaning our Old Adam.

Only the New Creature, the New Man who is IN CHRIST will be able to enter. That is what Jesus is teaching. One needs to put their faith In Christ, whereby THEN one is Born again or born from ABOVE, baptized into His death and raised up a New Creature to enter the New Creation. The Kingdom of God IS that New Creation. No re-birthed flesh will be able to enter it either.

That's why one MUST believe in Jesus SO THAT Jesus can give them a NEW LIFE to enter. HE IS OUR LIFE. We are hidden with God IN CHRIST .

We are members of HIS BODY making us acceptable to enter. The Bible teches we PUT ON CHRIST!
---kathr4453 on 4/25/12


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Where does scripture teach that the spirit needs to be born of "the Spirit"? Is it the Holy Spirit, God's Spirit or the Spirit of the LIFE of Christ?

You all believe man's spirit was reborn before Jesus Resurrection. SO by who's SPIRIT did that happen? If you say the Holy Spirit of God's Spirit, DO YOU REALLY NEED JESUS CHRIST??

How do you explain away Galatians 2:20-21 or Romans 8:11-13. If the SPITIT is putting to DEATH the deeds of the flesh, it's not talking about your epedurmus.

God does not regenerate our OLD MAN, our old man is crucified AKA DEAD or died with Christ and we are raised up a NEW CREATURE, IN CHRIST.

It's Christ in us, so it's THE Spirit of the Life of Christ in us.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/12


francis, you are correct. In (Matthew 19:28) the term 'regeneration" does not carry its normal theological meaning of personal regeneration found in (Titus 3:5). Instead, Jesus was speaking of "the times" of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began (Acts 3:21) This is in reference to the earthly kingdom described in (Rev. 20:1-15) when believers will "sit on..thrones" with Christ (Rev. 3:21) judging governing (1 Cor. 6:2,3).
---Mark_V. on 4/21/12

Now you ask where am I getting these questons from?
---francis on 4/25/12


francis, why do you ask those questions? You know where they come from if you have read Scripture. They come from Jesus,
"Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven" (John 3:3). Then to make sure He was understood He said:
" Jesus answered, "most assuredly, I say to you unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." The reason:
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"
All who are born of the flesh. They need to be born of the Spirit in order to not only see the kingdom of God, but also to enter it.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/12


It's the Arminian teaching about "regeneration" that I reject not the word "regeneration". Understood?
---christan on 4/23/12
How important is "spiritual" regeneration in Christianity? Does it then mean that everyone born into this world is dead since Christ taught of "spiritual" regeneration? If they are not dead, why does the "spirit" needs to be born of the "Spirit"?

Where is that stated in here?
---francis on 4/24/12


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"My point is why reject one, and ask to accept your?" francis

You cannot tell the difference, right? There are only two kinds of vessels that God has created according to Paul, vessels of honors and dishonors. No need for me to elaborate the fruits of these vessels.

"Regeneration" is taught by the Arminians and the Calvinists and that's because it's in the Bible. But here's the difference, the Arminians say you have to believe then God will give you His Spirit BUT the Calvinists teaches otherwise, that one is born of the Spirit is the very reason they are able to belief God.

It's the Arminian teaching about "regeneration" that I reject not the word "regeneration". Understood?
---christan on 4/23/12


Theologians have used this word( SPIRITUAL REGENERATION) for centuries to describe one being "born of the Holy Spirit". ---christan on 4/23/12

Today, we are told by preachers that one must "accept Jesus Christ" in order to be save. However, such a teaching cannot be found anywhere in the Holy Bible. Isn't this then a lie against the Word?
---christan on 1/20/12

Theologeons have also used " accept jesus Christ" for years to means believe in Jesus.

My point is why reject one, and ask to accept your?

basically: Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
---francis on 4/23/12


Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

regeneration here indicates the world made new. The new earth.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,

This verse speaks of baptism as a result of our new life.

So if you want to say born again, say born again.
If you want to say born of the spirit say born of the spirit
---francis on 4/23/12


"Can " spiritual" regenaration be found in the bible." francis

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3 - so what's this Jesus is talking about? Born of the Spirit, right?

Dictionary definition of regenerate is "to revive or produce anew, bring into existence again." Theologians have used this word for centuries to describe one being "born of the Holy Spirit". Have you ran out of ammunition that you are now trying to find fault with the dictionary? How pathetic can you be? Very, I must say.
---christan on 4/23/12


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francis, I don't believe anyone is trying to make you believe anything. They are just giving you the Truth as written by the writers of Scripture and interpreted by those who have translated the word of God to us. As you have seen before, many here are given the Truth and they twist it so that the meaning in the context is completely gone. Those are the one's that have believed a lie for so long their hearts have already been hardened against the Truth. The Spirit is the one that brings light to His word and convinces the believer to the Truth that is spoken. We are all messengers of the Truth if we do it for the glory of God and not for some denomination.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/12


Today, we are told by preachers that one must "accept Jesus Christ" in order to be save. However, such a teaching cannot be found anywhere in the Holy Bible. Isn't this then a lie against the Word?
---christan on 1/20/12

you wrote a blog against the phrase " accept jesus to be saved" and now you want us to accept a blog where regerantion in the bible is only used two times: Once in reference to the new earth, and opnce in reference to baptism.

Why do you want to be understood and not seek to understand others?

Can " spiritual" regenaration be found in the bible.

Tell you what: I will extend the olive brach and accept your post that spiritual regeneration is being born in the spirit
---francis on 4/21/12


James, Christ came from Heaven, born from the Holy Ghost, not born from Joseph the seed of man. The Holy is Almighty and therefore sanctifies the unregenerate, the unregenerate cannot unsanctify the Holy. When the unholy or the dirt and mud is thrown upon a holy one, the substance of the pearl reamins holy and it is not converted to the dirt or mud. That is why hell could not hold Jesus, because the sin that he carried was not his own but belonged to others, he himself was still 100% holy when sinners slew and cursed him.
---Eloy on 4/21/12


francis, you are correct. In (Matthew 19:28) the term 'regeneration" does not carry its normal theological meaning of personal regeneration found in (Titus 3:5). Instead, Jesus was speaking of "the times" of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began (Acts 3:21) This is in reference to the earthly kingdom described in (Rev. 20:1-15) when believers will "sit on..thrones" with Christ (Rev. 3:21) judging governing (1 Cor. 6:2,3).
---Mark_V. on 4/21/12


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There are major problems with the idea that people are born spiritually dead.

If a baby is born spiritually dead, and dies physically, does it go to hell? Many teach that the baby is spiritually dead, yet exempt from the requirememnt to believe the gospel to be saved.

If spiritual death is passed through blood line, then Christ would have been born spiritually dead, having a geneology that goes back to Adam

Scripture says that when Christ comes back, all sinners will be exterminated. Yet there will be sinners and saints in the Millenial Kingdom. Where will they come from, since resurrected saints will not marry or procreate?
---James_L on 4/21/12


No, some people are born spritually dead, because both parents are spiritually dead: and some children are born holy, because one or both parents are born-again Christians (ref:I Cor.7:14).
---Eloy on 4/21/12


"Does it then mean that everyone born into this world is dead since Christ taught of "spiritual" regeneration?" Yes, everyone born into this world dies. Every one born into this world succumbs to a carnal disposition very early in life, which makes everyone prone to, if not destined to, die in trespasses and sins. Due to the innate carnality of our thinking we become, over time, destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God. Therefore, by the Spirit and grace of our Father, and the faith of Jesus, we must to be "quickened together with Christ", through the forgiveness of sins, and the renewal of our minds. Rom 7:14>8:7>Col 2:13>Rom 12:2
---Josef on 4/21/12


Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

regeneration here indicates the world made new. The new earth.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,

This verse speaks of baptism as a result of our new life.

This makes it difficlty to answer the blog question if regeneration is used. The blog asks: How important is "the word made new?" or "baptism as a result of the new life"
---francis on 4/21/12


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Correction to previous post, the line that reads "Regeneration is, a restoration," should read "Regeneration is, a renovation," or a restoration of man to an acceptable condition with the Father.
---Josef on 4/21/12


"How important is "spiritual" regeneration in Christianity?"
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit, That he might sanctify and cleanse [the Church, the body of Christ] with the washing of water by the word," Regeneration is, a restoration, from above, to true life. The born again experience.
---Josef on 4/20/12


Mark E, sometimes you surprise me with what you say. I know you have a purpose and something moved you to tell Christan he needed a new vocabulary and to study the teachings of Jesus. Why throw stones? Then you claim that "rebirth" is not "born again" So please tells us what "rebirth" means? You must know otherwise you would not have told Christan to get a new vocabulary. When we were born physically once, now we are born again, but of the Spirit, isn't that rebirth? "reborn" if not what is it? Please teach me. I might not be too bright either since I believe they are both the same.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/12


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