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Good Tree No Evil Fruit

Jesus taught, "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." By the same token can a vessel of dishonor become a vessel of honor and vice-versa?

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 ---christan on 4/19/12
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THe Holy spirit was "upon" them. DO you know what that means? It means ON them not in them.

Christ had a body like yours and mine BEFORE he went to the cross.
AFTER he went to the cross and rose again, he a GLORIFIED BODY. The first of the resurrected just like will have when he comes back for us.
A glorified body can become solid, vapor, what ever is wants.
That is how Jesus appeared solid to Thomas.
Do you doubt the power of God for him to be born inside of a human body , die on the cross, resurrected in a glorified body. If you read the bible without all your religious, falsehoods, you will realize this is exactly what Christ did.
---ginger on 5/2/12


Tell me Ginger, if Christ had a new body a, different one!

Why did Christ say to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands, and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Seem the old and the new are the same.
And if Christ didnt have a body, before Mary.
In who, image, were we made?

And who was Jacob wrestling with, a ghost? In Gen_32:24
And Jacob was left alone, and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Is this still a different body?
Or was this a flesh and blood man?

Im not telling you what to believe.
But asking you, what do, you believe!
Peace Sister!
---TheSeg on 5/2/12


It is now said, that
"I also KNOW that his spirit was not able to be in us until he died on the cross."

( 1 Peter 1:10,11) tells us that the Old Testament prophets had the Spirit of Christ in them.
(Numbers 27:18) We are told the Spirit was in Joshua
( Daniel 4:8: 5:11: 6:3) Tells us the Spirit was in Daniel.
( Luke 1:15) The Spirit was in John the Baptist from his mothers womb.
( John 20:22) Christ bestowed the Holy Spirit on the disciples while Christ was still with them.
---Mark_V. on 5/2/12


Seg, you are mixing scripture.
In luke, Christ hwas talking about his RESURRECTED body not the one he was in before he had died!

Note: We cannot inherit the kingdom of God as we are..FLESH AND blood. We must be transformed.
And the Bible says that we will be.

You are looking at Post resurrection and i am talking about PRE- resurrection.
You just don't seem to get that do you?
What was Christ BEFORE he died on the cross?
This is what I am referring to, you are trying to use scripture that does not go along with what I am talking about.
You are denying the human part of Christ that was the sacrifice.
---ginger on 5/2/12


Jer_18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.


Rom_9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Saying:
God is willing to show his wrath and make his power known!

But, has endured! The vessels of wrath fitted to destruction!
Making the riches of his glory known on the vessels of mercy!
Which he had afore prepared unto glory!

Even us, whom he has called!
Not the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Not two people, everyone!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/2/12




No, I am not, Christ clearly said:
Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Note! Flesh and bones

You said
Remember, Jesus fleshly body was made of clay.
Note! 1Co_15:50
flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
Yet! Christ is sitting at the right hand of God
Tell me, is he with that fleshly part made of clay?

Moreover, in Joh_8:23 Christ clearly said:
I am not of this world. Just ignore this!
And keep saying part of him was that fleshly part!

Then say to me!
You are disagreeing with the FACT that Jesus was FLESH AND BLOOD!
Gen_1:26!
---TheSeg on 5/1/12


Seg,
I believe all of that.
I also KNOW that his spirit was not able to be in us until he died on the cross.
The body he walked the earth in that we beheld was born of a woman.
Lets not leave this out.
When you understand how God did this, then you will understand that I'm not disagreeing with anything that you have posted.
You are disagreeing with the FACT that Jesus was FLESH AND BLOOD like you and me AND GOD at the same time!
The Bible CLEARLY says that the fleshly part of Christ was born of a woman. And that woman was part of the nation of Israel. It was prophecied that Christ would be born like this.
Why are you disputing this part? I am not trying to do this. Just taking both the WHOLE and the parts as one.
---ginger on 5/1/12


Mark_V
I would guess, ha ha!
This is why he said:

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already is it in the world.

1Jn 4:4-5
have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world!
---TheSeg on 5/1/12


Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Mar 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan, and was with the wild beasts, and the angels ministered unto him.

Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Jas_1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

I know this!
It's not what I believe, that should matter to you.
But, what you believe!
---TheSeg on 5/1/12


Jesus Christ is eternal and anyone teaching another gospel is a heretic. It is better for that person not to speak then to be foolish enough to condemn themselves as the word of God tells us.
"Of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, "who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen" (Rom. 9:5).
Not only did He come in the flesh, "He was not made or created," but as the fathers foretold of His coming, He did come in the flesh and He is the eternally blessed God.
---Mark_V on 5/1/12




Ok seg,
so you don't believe Christ was tenpted in flesh like we all are?
I believe the Bible says this. The Bible also says he bacome a fleshly man.
I am guessing that you don't believe that when Christ walked the earth as a man that he was both God and man.
Am I correct if so, then you deny all of the gospel.
---ginger on 4/30/12


Gen_6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man,
(for that he also is flesh:) yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Mal_3:6 For I am the LORD, (I change not,) therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, (that it is I myself:) handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Joh_3:6 That which is born of the (flesh is flesh,) and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven!
And the bread that I will give is (my flesh!)

Who flesh? Christ's flesh!
Who blood? Christ's blood!
Please!
---TheSeg on 4/30/12


Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.


you posted this Seg.
Now, where again did Jesus get his fleshly body from?

Okay, note that Mary was an Israelite and Jesus was born an Israelite (also the son of God, but that is not the part I am talking about) I am talking about his flesh.

Whole of Israel was considered by God a dishonorable lump. Not taking away from Mary being blessed, what I am saying is a general statement.

From the SAME lump 2 vessels were made. The first was dishonorable (Israel). Out of that lump came the honorable vessel which is Jesus.
---ginger on 4/30/12


One last thing, Ginger!
You just said:

Mary was blessed because you carried JESUS.

Now is this also what the bible says?
Lets read it again!

Luk_1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luk_1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
Luk_1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

She was already called Blessed!
Now!
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

You see this, right?
Peace!
---TheSeg on 4/30/12


Rom 9:21

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

MarkV, you missed a very tiny word here. Its "same" the vessel of dishonor and vessel of honor came from the SAME lump.

how this is possible?

Is it possible that we being made a vessels of dishonor can be made into vessels of Honor?

When were each created, we are one lump. In this passage God takes the the lump and makes something NEW.

A new creature perhaps?
The Bible says Christ makes us new creatures.
None but Christ were ever born vessels of honor. We all were born vessels of dishonor.
Who made us vessels of Honor?
---ginger on 4/30/12


Mark_V., I now have to say, you were right.

Ginger (Speaks)
(You think Christ was made like Adam and Eve and that is not what the Bible says.)
What are you now talking about? Go back and read, what I said!

(He made Jesus from the dishonorable lump of the Israelites to make the honorable one called Christ.)
Here you go again! Ginger! Christ was not made!

The Bible Speaks: Joh 1:1, Joh 1:2, Joh 1:3
All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
THIS IS THE POINT!

(You can like it or leave it but it is the truth.)
(We must rightly divide the word of God so we have understanding.)
How true, Ginger!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/30/12


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\\No where in the Bible does it say to do this yet you do. So who doesn't believe what it says? Me or you?\\

You have no idea what I do.

\\Mary was blessed because you carried JESUS.\\

So, because of the child she bore, she IS the Blessed Mother according to the Bible.

Actually, Jesus said she was blessed because she heard the word of God, believed it, and kept it.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/30/12


Sorry Cluny, I meant that Mary(she) carried Christ, was a typo.

Okay, How are any of us vessels of honor in our original state?(before we were saved?
NONE are. Only God is good. For us to become good, We have to get into THE vessel of Honor which is Christ.
He is the only vessel of honor that was ever created. He is how we become a good tree to bear good fruit.
Without being in him, we would be bad trees, and vessels of dishonor.
God is the potter that takes the vessel of dishonor in which you were born into and makes you a NEW CREATURE by you being in the vessel of Honor which is Christ.
Scriputure calls us new creatures in Christ.

MarkV, please stop cherry picking verses.
---ginger on 4/30/12


Christan, a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. The reason is, all their good comes from above, and the glory to Christ.
A corrupt tree cannot bring good fruit, because anything without faith is sin, and the good they do does not bring glory to God.
A vessel of dishonor cannot become a vessel of honor. The selection of the clay was done from the foundation of the world. Only, "the elect" are vessels prepared before hand for glory.
Both Moses and Pharaoh were wicked sinners, even murderers, and equally worthy of God's wrath and eternal punishment. But Moses received mercy while Pharaoh received God's judgment, because it was God's soverign will ( Rom. 11:7: Josh 11:18-20: 1 Thess. 5:9: 2 Peter 2:12).
---Mark_V. on 4/30/12


Cluny, I don't worship Mary nor pray to her, That is what I meant. No where in the Bible does it say to do this yet you do. So who doesn't believe what it says? Me or you?

Mary was blessed because you carried JESUS.

Seg, Why are you yelling at me?
I know I am blessed not because of anything I did but because Christ lives in me. And I believe God when he says he used a woman to begget Jesus. Why don't you?
You think Christ was made like Adam and Eve and that is not what the Bible says.
He made Jesus from the dishonorable lump of the Israelites to make the honorable one called Christ.
You can like it or leave it but it is the truth.
We must rightly divide the word of God so we have understanding.
---ginger on 4/30/12


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MAYBE IT WAS JUST TO SEE IF YOU BELIEVE?

HE SHALL, BE BORN OF A WOMAN! WHO, I GOD! SHALL CALL BLESSED!
BUT REALLY WHO IS GOD TO TELL US, WHAT TO BELEVE?

ANYBODY CAN CALL HIMSELF HOLY THESES DAYS.
EVEN IF THEY DONT BELIEVE, BECAUSE IT IS TRUE!
AND DON'T YOU WORRY ABOUT IT!
EVERYTHING THAT, BELONES TO ME SHALL COME TO ME, AS IT IS WRITTEN!

FOR ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY, THAT IS GOD!
YOU AND I ARE NO DIFFERANT THAN ANYONE.

GOD BLESSES YOU, IF YOU SEE THE DIFFERANTS!
AND GOD BLESSES YOU, IF YOU DON'T!

BUT, PUT NO DIFFERANTS BETWEEN THEM AND US!
BECAUSE TO LIVE OR TO DIE, YOU AND ME ARE THE LORD'S
GOD BLESSED YOU, Sis!
---TheSeg on 4/29/12


\\No I don't think she is the blessed mother as catholics do.\\

Apparently, you don't believe the Bible, ginger.

Luke 1
28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord [in effect, "mother of YHVH", for Who else is the Lord?] should come to me?

I could give others, but you get the idea.

Repent!

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/29/12


Seg i did not say he had to turn to a woman, God said he turned to a woman.

Cluny I did say exactly what you said. Christ (one person) had two natures (duality) meaning God and man.
Seg, no matter how you slice it God used Mary to have, BEGOT, the fleshly body of Christ. Christ's body was not created as adam and eve were. He was born of a woman. That is scripture. Tell me Seg, why did God send an angel to Mary BEFORE she got pregnant?
---ginger on 4/29/12


God the creator of heaven and the earth!
Needed a fleshly body! So, he turned to a woman?

Let's forget about!
Mat_1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet!

Luk_1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
You have no idea what, Overshadow by God, is!

Luk_1:28,Luk_1:41-42,Luk 1:44-45
So, God, An Angel, The Holy Ghost and even john!
All called her Blessed, but not you. Good going!

Triality of Christ
I claim no Religion, only faith!
Peace Sister!
---TheSeg on 4/29/12


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\\Again, need more study to see the duality of Christ.
He was God and man!\\

Duality is PRECISELY the wrong word to use. That way lies the heresy of Nestorius.

He was God and man--two natures in ONE person.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/29/12


Um, you have read the Bible I dont need to tell you what she did. No I don't think she is the blessed mother as catholics do.
But I tell you this, you obviously are a man cause you would not have asked me what she did.
You don't know what it is like to have your body taken over for 9 months.
By the way, when Christ says that to her, it is the Spirit of God talking to her, not Jesus's flesh!
Again, need more study to see the duality of Christ.
He was God and man!
Why do you ignore this fact, Seg?
You ignore that the Holy Spirit had NOT been given until Jesus died. He needed a fleshly body to carry it to us from God. He got that fleshly body from Mary. Why else do you think God went to her in the first place?
---ginger on 4/29/12


Ginger please, stop for a minuet
Listen! Tell me, what Mary had to do with the birth of Christ.

Other than to fulfill what was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Now in truth! Do you really believe Mary the Blessed Mother!
Gave something to God?

Tell me, why did Christ at the cross say:
Woman, behold thy Son!

Is this any way to speak to your mother?
You think a real flesh and blood man, like your Lord, would have said, woman!
To his mother!

Think, for the love of God, think!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/28/12


\\Yes, she was there, Mary carried Jesus for 9 months.\\

Are you saying that the Son did not take His human body and nature from her?

That's not what the Bible says.

\\I know Christ existed in spirit at the beginning. Not what I am talking about, though.\\

Not quite the right words, as there is a human spirit. The Divine Logos/Son existed at the beginning.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/28/12


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But you want to say:
And the Word was made flesh, by Mary!
---TheSeg on 4/28/12

Not what I said!
Yes, she was there, Mary carried Jesus for 9 months.

Are you saying she didn't or
The holy spirit didn't overshadow her?
What bible are you reading?

Apparently we are talking about 2 different things.
I know Christ existed in spirit at the beginning. Not what I am talking about, though.

Romans 9 is about jews. 1 Corinthians 15 is about gentiles.
look at who Paul is teaching.
God produced Christ's earthly body through the jews(Israelites). Its in the OT and the NT. Are you sayig Christ didn't have an earthly body? If so, what was nailed to the cross?
---ginger on 4/28/12


\\What made Christ different and from above is that God formed that body and placed the Holy Spirit in it.
---ginger on 4/27/12\\

ginger, the Son/Logos was incarnate, NOT the Holy Spirit.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/28/12


Christan, I did not say Mary was a child of God as we are, even though in the end she was.
I am saying God used her to create the fleshly body for Jesus.
Have none of you read the OT that pertains to Israel and how God will produce the MESSIAH, JESUS through them?
Obviously not.
Seg, I see the big picture, from OT through the NT, but obviously, you nor Christan, nor MarkV do not.
So never mind because all of you are stiff necked and refuse to understand what I explained. I can only chalk it up as God refusing to let you see.
Maybe it is the false hoods you teach ? I don't know, but I am done.
---ginger on 4/28/12


Just maybe you should read 1Co_15 again.
Because you are right, this is talking about how all thing are different.
But what you don't see, is, all they have in common.
Creation!

Yet, So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in (dishonor), it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power!

Now you say read john_1-14, why? Seems clear enough! But, let read it together.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (stop) and we beheld his glory!

But you want to say:
And the Word was made flesh, by Mary!
So, she was there when Christ was (form!)
Big problem! Gen_32:23-29!
---TheSeg on 4/28/12


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"Mary was a descendant of king David." ginger

Your point is that made her a child of God? Is that your justification? Absalom was from the very loin of King David, read what happened to him? By your understanding he must be saved, right? Let's see, "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:8

The "promised seed" are the elect who are the children of God. That's because they've been "promised" to be "quickened by the Spirit"

Right back at you, "Apparently your lack of understanding is far beyond what I thought."
---christan on 4/27/12


Seg,
1Co_15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh:--
This is talking about how all things created by God are different, animals are not the same flesh as us.
Don't you understand that Christ's body was flesh like mine and yours.
What made him different was the Holy Spirit INSIDE of him.
His mother was FLESH and his Father was God.
Christ was BOTH.
Didn't you read john 1:14?
Go back and read it again cause it says he came in the flesh and we beheld his glory.
I can't explain it any simpler.
It would help if you would not just pick out verses and ignore their context.
---ginger on 4/27/12


Seg,
Please understand that when I say the same lump, I am talking about Christ mother's geneology.
The Bible says he went to his own and his own would not receive him (john 1)
His own is the Israelites.
Jesus was born a jew.
I am not saying he was sinful. He was the vessel of honor, the vessel of the Holy Spirit! The son of God.
Yet he had to put on flesh to redeem us. That flesh part was from his mother.
God created Jesus body by using the same lump as Israel. The same geneology.
Israel the vessel of dishonor and Jesus the vessel of Honor. All came from the same lump (geneology).

What made Christ different and from above is that God formed that body and placed the Holy Spirit in it.
---ginger on 4/27/12


Ginger, I hear you, sorry!
But you have to understand, when you wrote:
(When I say the same lump, I am talking about the part of him that was flesh.)

You are saying, you believe the flesh of the lord, is the same as ours.
Rom_8:3 God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh--
This does say in the likeness of sinful flesh.

1Co_15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh:--
1Co_15:47 the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Just to be clear, no other flesh could do what his flesh did!

You said the vessel of honor is Christ.
Christ made everything, did he not?
Joh_8:54, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing--

There is a bigger picture here!
Peace!
---TheSeg on 4/27/12


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What heretical remark, MarkV?
Jesus' lineage? The Bible tells us what Jesus' lineage was! Mary was a descendant of king David.
Apparently your lack of understanding is far beyond what I thought.
Christ was both God and Man.
The man part came from his mother who was a jew, Mary.
And God who was his father placed his spirit within Christ.
So, Christ was BOTH.
You are just mad because what I said debunks what you believe.
Even Seg knows that Christ had a fleshly mother which is descended from the lump that Paul is talking about.
The lump was Israel, God's chosen people.
The vessel of dishonor was the disobedient jews from Israel. The vessel of honor was Christ who was also a jew from Israel.
---ginger on 4/27/12


Seg,
Yes Christ did make us.

John 1:3 says Christ made the world,But little further down in John 1:14 it says:

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

(Christ created a fleshly body to dwell in by using a fleshly woman named Mary)

If you look at verse 11 in John chapter 1, It says:

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Now, I ask you this, Seg, who was Jesus' own who refused to receive him?

Israel is the answer.

Because they refused Christ, they became vessels of dishonor.
---ginger on 4/27/12


The Seg, I warn you that answering this women, Ginger, LindaH, and Kathr their leader will bring nothing but vengeance and condemnation on every answer you put down from now on for speaking against them. If you are ready to take the challenge for the glory of God, put on the armor of God and be strong. Evil is at the door every day.
But I want to thank you for answering that heretical remark Ginger has made of the Lord who created all things. Peace brother,
---Mark_V. on 4/27/12


The Seg,,

When i say the same lump as the Bible does, we are talking about how Christ is from the Israelites..the same lineage, bloodline.
Jesus was a jew also.
Now the Spirit in Him was from God, IS God, actually.
When I say the same lump, I am talking about the part of him that was flesh.
The Israaelites are the vessels of dishonor except for the remnant that God has/is/will save.
Christ was God and man when he walked this earth.
God made him a body of clay like ours BUT put HIS spirit in it so Christ was not just a living soul like we are.
Hope that clears up the confusion.
---ginger on 4/27/12


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Also Seg,
What Jesus says in John 8, He's refering to the Spirit of God inside of him, not his fleshly body.
Remember, Jesus fleshly body was made of clay. His spirit was of God, Holy Spirit!

In Romans 9, it's not a good idea to just pick verses out of it. You have to take the chapter as a whole.
Notice he says "people who were not my people"
Jesus' people were the Israelites, but since they denied he was the messiah, it opened the door to the gentiles to become "the people who were not my people".
The gentiles were not Jesus' original people.
This chapter is about the Israelites being cut of and the gentile being grafted in because their faith.
Except for the remnant of Israel, of course.
---ginger on 4/27/12


Seg, the passages you gave were great and many more do give proof that Jesus Christ came from heaven. Mormons believe he was created also. Job, even in his day believed that the Lord already lived when he said, "I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth" Job 19:20.
---Dan on 4/27/12


Ginger, I'm a little confused here.
You said: Jesus is the vessel of honor made from the same lump.

Made of the same lump?
Or better said, made?
Joh_8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath, I am from above: ye are of this world, I am not of this world.
Seem to me, Jesus is not the same lump.
He made the lump, didn't he?

Rom 9:24-25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people, and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Help me out Here!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/26/12


"For the good that I will to do, I do not do, but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me" (Romans 7:19).
---Mark_V. on 4/26/12

This is no excuse, MarkV.
Christan, you take vessel of honor and dishonor- Romans 9 way out of context.
THe vessels of honor in this chapter are the Israelites who don't believe Jesus. Jesus is the vessel of honor made from the same lump.
The lump Is the nation of Israel.
Context CONTEXT!!!!
---ginger on 4/26/12


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Rom_11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear,) unto this day.
Are you saying this is not a gift from God?

1Co_2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
This is also a gift!

1Co_12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
We should all profit from each other! Mar_8:36?

God, what am I trying to say!
If God made you sleepy, how can I possibly wake you up?
So, shouldn't I believe, Mar_11:23!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/26/12


The Seg, you asked,
"Why can't they believe?".
Because they don't want to believe. Why? They are not able to listen to the Word of God. They need faith. Just think of all the truth that has been given here, and they don't want to believe, no one is forcing them not to, they just don't want to. God has to bring the light of Scripture to them.
It is not God's fault for not drawing them, He is not obligated to. In fact it's God's love that draws some who are already condemned. That He saves any is the miracle, for He could have chosen to save none. People are not sinners because they sin against God, they sin because they are sinners with a sinful nature. They sin because they love to sin, God does not make them sin.
---Mark_V. on 4/26/12


The Seg, God commands us to do many things we are not able to do. He could not ask us for less, because He is God, pure holy and righteous. He could not say, "ok, sin a little"
In order to come to Him we need perfection,( Christ).
We are able to come to Him because of Christ who is the Mediator between men and God. It is His imputed righteous that allows us to come to God.
I do love you, but I can honestly say, it's hard for me to love everyone as God would want me to. The flesh I carry with me stops me.
"For the good that I will to do, I do not do, but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me" (Romans 7:19).
---Mark_V. on 4/26/12


To whom it may concerns:


Mat_10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

Christ said we are to love each other.
But, as The Lord, loves you!

Now you want me to except less than that from you!
No! You are to love me, in kind. The way the lord said!

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

If you dont, how can you love God? Joh_5:42!

Mar_4:28 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself, first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

Peace!
---TheSeg on 4/25/12


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Yes one thing is clear, man is condemned.
Because he doesn't believe, God!

John_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already,
because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Now why can't they believe?
Is it God's fault for not drawing them?
Or is it man's fault for not letting other men believe?

Let me ask you something, if I don't go to heaven, who fault is it?
Mine, Yours, Satan's or God's

Where does the buck-stop, is it not with God?
In Fact, I think, I even heard God say, The Buck Stop Here!

Am I blaming God? No!
But, if it's up to God, believe him!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/24/12


The Seg, when you were 7 or 8 years old, you had not yet read all of Scripture. Scripture is written the way the Spirit inspired some to write it. What we think or feel about Scripture is different to everyone. But one thing is clear, man is condemned already, and very much in need of a hope a Savior (Jesus Christ). If Christ does not come into his heart, then there is the sentence. No changing the Word of God no matter how we feel or think. Even the lost can see what is written. They might not understand spiritual matters but knows what God said. They might not like it, but it does not change. I don't like to hear of the millions that died to preserve the nation of Israel, but God had His own purpose. God wrote it and I believe it.
---Mark_V. on 4/24/12


Hey Mark, I didnt make man.
But I know man, because I know myself.
And not like that guy on the mountain, Luke_18:11!
It is because, I know, I am exactly as other men!
That, I know everyone is saved!

You said you wish everyone would be saved, but I know they are not!
Mark, I didnt wish it, when I was a kid of 7 or 8 years old.
You think, I said to myself, God, I wish everyone would be saved.
You dont think, Ive havent asked myself, why do you believe this?
Im laughing!

I know! You dont think Im one of those who say, DO!
When we know, we can do nothing!
Pray! Yea, maybe pray!
But for what! Matthew_9:38

Peace,Love & Happyness
TheSeg
---TheSeg on 4/23/12


ELOY -4/20/12 - When a sinner repents from sin ------ They will be coverted -

Well maybe or maybe not - Now they might repenting, because God is drawing them. But the act of repenting is a work. And no works a man can do can save him. That goes the same from people who say Now I Accept Christ - It's the same thing - That person would be trying to do the Work of getting themselves save.
---RICHARDC on 4/23/12


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The Seg, I myself wish everyone would be saved but I know they are not. The whole gospel revolves around how God created man and how they responded to God. Disobeying Him, and God bringing in the curse. That everyone is condemned already. That the only hope they have is through God's Son Jesus Christ. Why have a gospel? Why have God's Son die? Why have missionaries? Why even preach the gospel since there is no gospel? Why even mention heaven or hell. Why would Jesus talk about a good tree? Why even speak of vessels of honor and the others of dishonor? And more then anything, why have a Bible, the word of God? When in the end everyone will be saved. Sure, there are passages that seem to imply but they only imply something, they are not fact.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/12


I don't believe everybody is saved because of the bible.
Though there are some things in the bible, I do love!

Romans_14:11-12
As I live!
By this, I know! Everyone is on their knees and confessed before God.

Romans_10:10
But does this mean those on their knee in Romans_14:11, believe!

I guess so, in Revelation_7:9
There is a great multitude, which no man could number!
Just what kind of number is this?
Is this number, greater than the few in Matthew_7:14?
You know it is!

Yes, I believe everyone is saved!
Just as I believe some will never see it.
It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Wow, did I just call everyone a dog?
No, he did!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/23/12


\\I believe everyone will be saved in the end\\
---John.usa on 4/21/12

1Corinthians 15 context is physical resurrection (15:12, 36-43).

verse 50 - FLESH AND BLOOD (body) cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

Compare:

1Cor 15:21-22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:18
So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Romans 5:10
having been reconciled (through faith), we SHALL BE "saved" by His "life" (resurrection)
---James_L on 4/23/12


John.usa: Your comment about 1 Cor 15:28 is reasonable.

However, we still have to ask whether it is the only (or at least the most important) comment as to what God will do at the end.

I do not deny it would be very nice for it to be the 'convenient' end.

But there are rather too many other Scriptures that seem to indicate that some will be lost. I seem at least to feel there are more Scriptures that list that not all will be saved.
---Peter on 4/22/12


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So, when I have my foot on your enemies, necks.
You will consider him a friend and a brother, saved?

I think the word youre looking for is safe!
You can now consider them safe, not saved.

Because! I have my foot on his necks.
If I let him up, I dont know what hell do!
That doesnt make him, your brother.
That makes me your brother.

What must he do to be my brother?
Tell me is death, your enemies or your friend?
He is going to be destroyed!
Will you now ask for his life?

Remember you have the keys.
Will you not, ask the lord, that your enemies be destroyed?
Death and Hell, friend or foe
You did say everyone, right?
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/21/12


Johnusa, you called God "Herod the Great" for doing what He told us He did to millions of people for not only been under the written letter of the Law, but for those whom He didn't want to have mercy on. And now you claim everyone will be saved because you believe God is love and will have mercy on everyone because of your interpretation of a passage to the exclusion of so many others. Why not just go out and kill your enemies? Because in the end you will be saved. Why give the Covenant of obedience when in the end it will mean nothing? Why have His Son die on the Cross when it doesn't mean a thing since all will be saved? Can you see where I am going with this?
---Mark_V. on 4/22/12


No, I don't believe everyone is saved now. But I believe everyone will be saved in the end, just as is promised in 1 Corinthians 15:28. That's how it is.
---John.usa on 4/21/12


John.usa
If I understand you right.
Your blaming mark for what God has done.
Or is it your view, that God has not destroyed anyone?
You have read the bible right, did mark write it?
So you are now making mark, God?

I believe everyone will be saved too!
But to believe everyone is saved, right now is Im sorry, stupid!
Listen Christ said a lot of things. But nowhere is it said everyone is saved!
If it did, I would have found it.

More than anything, I believe he said, "If I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me"
Do you see Christ bring lifted, that way today?
If you say, yes! Then I guess, I am a liar too!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/21/12


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Johnusa, you call the God of Scripture "Herod the great"
You say to me:
" no respect for your views or your hateful god who creates people just for the sake of destroying them"
God said,
"...And between your seed and her Seed:".
Who put enmity? God.
Because of that enmity Cain killed Able.
The promise land was to be taken from the Canaanites. Later they were to slaughter the Canaanites, "thou shall save alive nothing that breatheth, but thou shalt utterly destroy them, namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, as the Lord commanded thee" You can reject the God of Scripture if you don't like Him.
---Mark_V. on 4/21/12


Satan, at some time, was a vessel of great honor. so were a third of God's angels that have fallen.
---aka on 4/20/12


Mark, gotta give you credit. No, I have no respect for your views or your hateful god who creates people just for the sake of destroying them. The true incarnation of your god is Herod the Great, not Jesus.
---John.usa on 4/20/12


Johnusa, you say you were trying to support my view and Christians but, please give me a break. I could see right through what you wrote. It's ok. You are free to make comments. I answered because I just wanted to make it clear that no one knows who the vessels of honor are going to be or the vessels of dishonor. God has all that information already, I sure don't. In the end everyone will find out what they were.
God did say,
"Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called, whom He called, these He also justified, and whom He justified, these He glorified"
This are the vessels of honor.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/12


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Mark and John: I don't know if you really disagree so much.

I feel you really disagree one how you define how and when one becomes a vessel of honor, not whether IS one.

You can find enough verses to 'prove' either, though I see more that implies a vessel of honor, but I won't say anything
---Peter on 4/20/12


True repentance is powerful. When a sinner repents from sin and asks Jesus into their life and to change them, then they will be converted, from sinuousness to righteousness.
---Eloy on 4/20/12


Mark, here I was trying to support Christian's and your position. Don't you want to feel special and superior as a vessel of honor? I do honor you both as special and superior.
---John.usa on 4/20/12


The point Im trying to make.
I have no doubt it is God, who give you faith in which you can believe.
But its what we do with this faith once we receive it.

I know some people, who can give you the exact year, day and time.
They were born again! I really felt like saying, what you dont know the seconds?
Really, Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. 1Co_12:7!

Many call what they have faith, and I am sure it is!
As I am also sure, this is not the only gift. 1Co_12!

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Remember the commandment, Exo_20:17?
Nor anything that is thy neighbors.
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/20/12


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Johnusa, according to your believes you think everyone is a vessel of honor because you said everyone will be saved in the end.
I don't believe that only I and Christan and others are the only vessels of honor, in fact you too could be a vessel of honor one day. I sure don't know. God knows all things, who they are. I answer to bring the Truth, if you reject the Truth of Scripture all your life, we can conclude you were a vessel of dishonor.
"Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called, whom He called, these He also justified, and whom He justified, these He glorified" Only those are vessels of honor. You might be one, or a vessel for dishonor.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/12


Except for Christian and Mark and perhaps a couple of others here, all of us are vessels of dishonor, and there is nothing we can do to change it. We are without hope, so we might as well just eat drink and be merry!
---John.usa on 4/19/12


For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

When Jesus said:
Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree,-

Isnt he saying that we will, do these things!
Now I dont know if withering a fig tree is a good thing.
But I understand and I see us do these things!

James said:
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
So can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
Jas_3:13!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/19/12


A corrupt tree is corrupted by the lies growing on it. Corrupt fruit are words picked off the tree, passed around the dinner table and eaten until everyone is so engorged with them that they can't see the truth anymore.
---barb on 4/19/12


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No, a vessel of dishonor cannot become a vessel of honor and vice-versa. You have to read Matt.12:25-37 to understand. The key verse is 31. Jesus is talking about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and He quite firmly tells us that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will NOT be forgiven.

Jesus sums it up in verse 37 by telling us that we are justified or condemned by our words.

We either learn and speak the truth of Jesus Christ as given to us by the Holy Spirit or we corrupt ourselves by believing the lies who come from an unholy spirit thru false prophets, disciples. We blaspheme the Holy Spirit by passing on words (bad fruit) that did come from Him. Also read John 15.
---barb on 4/19/12


Matthew 12:33 "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good, or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit."
---Nana on 4/19/12


What is a corrupt tree? What is evil fruit?
---atheist on 4/19/12


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