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God Gets Everyone Saved

It is said, that God who is Almighty, wants everyone to be saved. If He does, and He is Almighty God who's nature cannot change, what stops Him from saving everyone? Scripture please, and no name calling.

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What is your part after God has saved you from your sin that you need to do? You're implying "if you do not do your part", you're going to loose your salvation. Where does it say in 1 Thessalonians 5:23,24 or anywhere where in the Scriptures you "have to do your part"? That's your evil 'free-will' doctrine you subscribe to.

The part of "Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all, hold on to what is good,reject every kind of evil. " V 21-22

Does not say God will do it for you: Hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil, sounds like something you have to do 'if you choose to do it':)
---Ruben on 4/23/12


"Yes God is Faithful but you need to do you part." Ruben

What is your part after God has saved you from your sin that you need to do? You're implying "if you do not do your part", you're going to loose your salvation. Where does it say in 1 Thessalonians 5:23,24 or anywhere where in the Scriptures you "have to do your part"? That's your evil 'free-will' doctrine you subscribe to.

If you have to "do your part", what's the standard before you're saved? See, how silly your 'free-will' doctrine is? God saves you and you can loose your salvation. How sad is that? The salvation you subscribe to is not of grace but of works!
---christan on 4/23/12


"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away" (in John 15:2)

"'If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered, and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.'" (John 15:6)

This does not say all will be saved. But we have that God is not pleased with "the death of the wicked" (Ezekiel 33:11), but the wicked are dying, though this is not God's will. So, when it says He is "not willing that any should perish" (2 Peter 3:9), I see this can mean He is not pleased, though people are perishing . . . getting "worse and worse" (2 Timothy 3:13).
---willie_c: on 4/23/12


"He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it." - do what? "sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thessalonians 5:23,24 - salvation is all 100% God's work!
---christan on 4/23

Christian,

Yes God is Faithful but you need to do you part :

"Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all, hold on to what is good,reject every kind of evil. " V 21-22
---Ruben on 4/23/12


JamesL, Luke 8:11-15 is about the parable of the sower. Verse14 specifically speaks of the third ground which is symbolic of an "unregenerated" heart, one pretending to be a Christian but is weeded out by God. Only the last ground which is symbolic of those who are truly "born of the Spirit". Only these by the grace of God will persevere till the end that's because they're called by God. Paul declared,

"He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it." - do what? "sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thessalonians 5:23,24 - salvation is all 100% God's work!
---christan on 4/23/12




James L, many hear the word, with no spiritual ears. If they did, they would be born again. "and hearing by the
word of God"
The natural man does not have spiritual ears. Many in churches today hear, but do not perceive, they have not been changed by the Spirit. Another thing, nowhere are we told the others were saved, but the last one's who produced fruit kept the Word. What is keeping the word? It is "abiding" in the Truth. Abiding is remaining in the Truth.
"I am the Vine, you are the branches, He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit" (John 15:5). Who bears fruit? Those who remain with Him. They keep the Word of God.
It all comes from Scripture brother James.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/12


And what do Christians do? They ignore the nature, character and attributes of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/12


Indeed they do!

(Ezekiel 33:11)
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die

He doesnt pleasure in it and He tells us not to as well! Never forget that!

There is no doubt that God is sovereign, but to twist his sovereignty so that it only benefits you (because you somehow feel God loves you more than the rest) and curses those whom you harbor hatred towards is just despicable.
---CraigA on 4/23/12


Peter, God's word tells us who He is. Passages that people ignore. There's also no mistake who we are.

"He worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:11).
"Known unto God are all His works, from the beginning of the World" (Acts 15:18).
"But He is of one mind, and who can turn Him? and what His soul desireth, even that He doeth" (Job 23:13).
"For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things to whom be glory forever Amen" (Rom. 11:36).
"My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" (Isa. 46:10). Just a few Scriptures,
And what do Christians do? They ignore the nature, character and attributes of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/12


\\James L, no where in Luke does it say believers don't bear fruit?\\
---Mark V.

REALLY ??
Luke 8:14
The seed which fell among the thorns, theses are the ones who have heard (remember, faith comes by hearing, right?), and as they go on their way...bring NO FRUIT to maturity.


\\They have to have faith, and if they did, they would not fall away.\\
---Mark_V.

REALLY ??
Luke 8:13
Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy, and these have no firm root, THEY BELIEVE for a little while, and in time of emptation FALL AWAY.

You like to say that you get your beliefs from scripture, but I have to ask - What scriptures have you been reading ??
---James_L on 4/23/12


LindaHelm, you don't understand the meaning of "a mighty hand compels him" in Exodus 3:19,20 and you want me to believe you understand "omniscient"? Heard of "omnipotent"?

You've a god that only knows the future but didn't write nor purposed what's going to happen. That's not my God of the Bible. For the God of the Bible declares,

"Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." This is "omnipotent"!

Bottomline, God created Pharaoh for the very purpose of destruction, whether you like it or not. Paul confirms this in Romans 9.
---christan on 4/23/12




"what stops Him from saving everyone?"

Isa 59:1,2 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Our own free will/freedom of choice to sin is the only thing that keeps God from saving us. According to Christ, most will choose sin over salvation.

Mat 7:13, 14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


---jerry6593 on 4/23/12


//"many on here have said God is defeated by sinful man."//

I didn't say this, MarkV said this.
I believe God can and will save my family. WHY?
because his word says he will!
God is not a liar. So I believe him!


MarkV believes he won't. He thinks his prayers for the lost are in vain.
I believe God can do anything!!
I believe he does what he says he will do.
MarkV blocks the door of salvation because he's afraid of someone getting saved that he doosn't want to get saved.
God says forgive or you shall not be forgiven, MarkV. You should start believing God for what he says he will do.
---ginger on 4/23/12


Mark V: Here I'm trying to answer your initial question, but first I'll say that we don't any have such direct statements (either way) in scripture, though.......

One could say that since Jesus says that he who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will NOT be forgiven, we could say that implies that God will not forgive him/her.

But more to logic (with which you can dispute, of course). The problem is how much God makes each of us turn to Him (as St.Augustine argued) or how much we make that decision (as Pelagius argued).
---Peter on 4/22/12


Mark V: I'm sure my last attempt didn't do much good,but let me try some more!

We cannot know what prevents God from doing from what He says He wants, but from some reading (mostly C.S.Lewis), I get the idea that there are even things that God cannot do.

Not because of His power, but because those things are illogical. It may, for example, be that God placed (because it is good) a limit on how much 'pressure' God can put on each person to turn to Him, maybe because beyond a certain pressure the person (in a way I don't know) 'sort of stops being a Soul' and just becomes like a recording of praise for God.

Silly? Maybe, but it's sort of my limit of understanding
---Peter on 4/22/12


Cmon now Christan. Even a child can see that what God is saying is that Pharaoh will not let Israel go unless God forces him to!

Your god sounds like a fortune teller with a bandanna and crystal ball---Christan

Are you suggesting that God is not omniscient and doesnt know what decision a man will make on his own, unless He himself intervenes and manipulates the situation?
---LindaH on 4/22/12


MICHEAL E - 4/22/12 - 1 TIMOTHY 2:4 - Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

JOHN 6:36 - ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVETH ME SHALL COME TO ME: and him that cometh to me I will not cast out. ( The ALL that in view are the chosen )

Micheal e - Man perishes because he rejects God provision ?

JOHN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know Them, and they follow me.
( The sheep - true Believer - does not reject, they Follow )
---RICHARDC on 4/22/12


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"NOT every born again person will share in Christ's inheritance. NOT every believer will suffer with Christ. Some will bear no fruit (Luke 8:13-14). Not every believer will hear "Well done" (Matt 25:26-30)" James_L

This theory of yours is absurd when one is "born of the Holy Spirit". How can a "believer" not suffer with Christ, bear no fruit and not hear? Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." and "born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

It's a guarantee when one is "born of the Spirit" WILL see and enter God's Kingdom.
---christan on 4/22/12


James L, no where in Luke does it say believers don't bear fruit? They have to have faith, and if they did, they would not fall away. Jesus had just explained the parable of the soils. Then He said, (v. 8)"He who has ears to hear, let him hear" The disciples themselves didn't understand the parable. When Jesus explained, the first group heard the Word .."lest they should believe and be saved" The second group believed for a while and fell away, they were those who followed Jesus for the miracles and then left Him. The third group fell away because they loved their wealth rather then spiritual riches. The next group fell on good ground, they heard the word with a good heart, and kept it, and beared fruit with patience.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/12


MICHAEL E - NO one knows if they are elect ?

ROMANS 8:16 The spirit itself witness with our spirit,that we are child of GOD .
---RICHARDC on 4/22/12


LindaHelm, Scripture says "But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless a mighty hand compels him." Do you understand "a mighty hand compels him"? Scripture definition: "but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." It's God who hardens!

Your god sounds like a fortune teller with a bandanna and crystal ball. Your god is definitely not the same God as the Scripture. Read this:

"The kings heart is in the hand of the Lord, Like the rivers of water, He turns it wherever He wishes." Proverbs 21:1

You still think Pharaoh or any of us operates outside of the "mighty hand" of God? I rest my case.
---christan on 4/22/12


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Tit.2:11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
God desires all men to be saved. 1 Tim 2:4, Titus 2:11, Eze 18:27, 2 Peter 3:9
God desired repentance Matt 11:20 & Luke 19:41
Man perishes because he rejects Gods provision.
Choose life Deut 30:19
Calvin thought the church was Israel. Mat 26:28, Heb 8:8, 9:28
Gods Purpose is Fulfilled in Christ. The cross of Christ is the center point of Gods purpose.
The priests rejected Gods counsel. Luke 7:39
Eze 18:27, 2 Peter 3:9
The only time foreordained is mentioned it is Christ 1 Peter 1:19-20
Gods purpose is fulfilled in Christ,not man. Eph 3:10-11
God is wiser than man, this is how his purpose gets accomplished Rom 11:33
---michael_e on 4/22/12


II Timothy 2:[23]But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. [24]The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, [25]with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, [26]and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
---Rod4Him on 4/22/12


\\Biblical election concerns God choosing Christ to die for the sins responsible to mans account.\\
---michael_e on 4/21/12

Not so.

Biblical election refers to those people who God foreknew as joint-heirs with Christ (Rom 8:17). They are the ones who are conformed to the image of Christ through suffering (Rom 8:29, 1Pet 2:21), and are made to inherit the Kingdom (Matt 5:10)

NOT every born again person will share in Christ's inheritance. NOT every believer will suffer with Christ. Some will bear no fruit (Luke 8:13-14). Not every believer will hear "Well done" (Matt 25:26-30)
---James_L on 4/21/12


Genuine Christians would never belief God who is Almighty, is stop by the decisions of sinful man. What God are you guys worshipping? ---Mark_V on 4/21/12

God told Moses, "but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." Exodus 4:21 - why do you not belief it's God who hardens the man as He has declared?
---christan on 4/21/12


I always wondered why when I address "Christan", "MarkV" pops up no matter what blog its in. You should be ashamed of yourself, whoever you are. Noone will listen to anything you say if you have to jump from name to name to support yourself.
---LookImHiding on 4/22/12


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Michael e, I learned about Election from Scripture. You don't want to believe what the written word says. Go ahead an hang on to the god you created

Ginger, you said,
" ..but you bare false witness by saying "many on here have said God is defeated by sinful man." NO ONE HAS SAID THAT!"

If God who is Almighty Sovereign Ruler of all things wants to save a person as you believe, and that person doesn't want to be saved, isn't God defeated by the sinner? Suggesting sinful sinners have power over God. No true Christian would ever believe that garbbish. You might as well put your faith in men and not God? Stop praying to God to save your love one's, in your mind He has no power to save anyone.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/12


No one knows if they are the elect unless they study books on Calvinism. Then everybody thinks they are.
I tried sharing the message of Gods irresistible grace, but it seems that some people are able to resist it. Calvin would suggest that Gods grace must not be given to those people.
They will be the recipients of Gods wrath. After all, someone has to take it since it was all according to Gods will.
---michael_e on 4/21/12


God told Moses, "but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." Exodus 4:21 - why do you not belief it's God who hardens the man as He has declared?
---christan on 4/21/12


Exodus 3:19,20
But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless a mighty hand compels him. So I will stretch out my hand and strike the Egyptians with all the wonders that I will perform among them. After that, he will let you go.

This was before God said He would harden Pharaoh.

That is proof of what I just gave you in Proverb 16:9. Pharaohs heart had already chosen his path and God foreknew it and used his judgments to harden Pharaoh and direct his steps.
---LindaH on 4/21/12


Mark,

Exo 30:10
(KJV)
For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

(NIV)
Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.

God is saying we have the ability to follow his laws. Why dont we? We choose not to!

God even tells us to CHOOSE life in verse 19! If God cannot lie or deceive, why would He tell us to make our own decision if we were incapable of making the right one? The law proves us all rebellious and guilty before God. It doesn't prove us incapable.

Faith is the same way. Romans 10:6-12 and Deut 30:11-14 both prove us capable of doing what God requires.
---LindaH on 4/21/12


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A classic example of deception is your "justification by death"---Christan

Romans 5:9,10

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
---CraigA on 4/21/12


MICHEAL E 4/21/12 - Now it's man responsibility to choose ?

JOHN 15:16 - YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU, and ordain you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the father in my name, he may give it you.

JOHN 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life: and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
---RICHARDC on 4/21/12


rhonda & ginger, you talk about modern christianity and what's that? Mankind have been deceived since the beginning of time and it will continue till the end.

A classic example of deception is your "justification by death". If there's such a biblical doctrine, Paul would have taught it as such you mentioned instead of dedicating almost four chapters entitled "Justification by Faith" in Romans and Galatians 3 & 4.

Paul clearly started Romans 5 with "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ"! Teach what's written and in context, not plucking one verse and making it into a doctrine of your own.
---christan on 4/21/12


1 Tim2:4Who will have all men to be saved...

Election is a Bible doctrine. Calvinism is not.
Biblical election concerns God choosing Christ to die for the sins responsible to mans account. God chose to create man. Man chose to reject God. God chose to die for man. It's now mans responsibility to choose.
Choose Christ.
---michael_e on 4/21/12


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markV,
You ask for scripture and many on here have given it several times, you refuse to listen. You say no name calling but you bare false witness by saying "many on here have said God is defeated by sinful man." NO ONE HAS SAID THAT!
Do you not see that you are saying its God's fault that man sins and that man does not repent? You are saying this. The Bible says He has the power to save anyone. You say he only saves who he chooses. That is not biblical! Salvation is offered to every person. Christ says he died for the sins of the world, you say he didn't. Who is right? you or Christ?
CHRIST IS!!!! ALL THE TIME! So, what is the point of trying to give scripture when you have had it already and still don't believe?
---ginger on 4/21/12


But they have to rely on the old KJV which ignores the Greek tense that the verbs are of a continual nature.
---lee1538 on 4/20/12

I use only the KJV and I understand this. I don't think it has to do with the version of the Bible. Scripture witnesses scripture. I think it is the person.
Most don't use scripture witnessing scripture. They use some other outside reference instead of The Holy Spirit and the word of God.
Their personal beliefs get in the way of truth sometimes.
---ginger on 4/21/12


"in the path their hearts had already chosen, which was rebellion against God." ginger//

Christan, I did not post this. Linda did. But I agree with her.
You don't understand how God can use a man's will to do HIS will. You over look it because your PERSONAL beliefs get in the way.
The scripture she posted is the truth. Man decides in his heart, GOD DIRECTS HIS PATH, STEPS, ETC!!!!

Pharoah had already decided what to do in his heart, so, GOD hardened it so he would not change his mind and God's will would be fulfilled.

Again your misinterpretation of scripture just astounds me!
---ginger on 4/21/12


Christan, his death doesnt save you. His death justifies you from your sins. His life saves you!

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life --- Romans 5:10
****

AMEN

modern christianity is deceived per Holy Scripture which is why so many believe TODAY is the ONLY day for salvation

Gods plan for salvation is not completed YET seeing Christ is NOT HERE on earth ruling the nations Satan cotnrols
---Rhonda on 4/21/12


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"his death doesnt save you. His death justifies you from your sins. His life saves you!" Blogger9680

What??? What you say above makes no sense compared to what is written in Romans 5:10. It's is through Christ's death that when He resurrected, the Christian has eternal life on the account that Christ conquered death. Not to mention the Christian now has peace with God. That's what Romans 5:10 means. You provide the verse to contradict your own understanding, now how brilliant is that?

Christ's death saved only the elect and only through faith (a gift from God) in Christ are His people saved. That's taught by Paul as Justification by Faith. There's no justification by death.
---christan on 4/21/12


LindaH, I really don't see where in (Deut. 30:11-20) it says, God gave them free will to choose. What it does say is that Moses forces the decision, exhorting Israel on the plains of Moab before heaven and earth to choose by believing in and loving God, the life available through the New Covenant (v.6). Sadly Israel failed to respond to this call of Moses to the right choice (31:16-18,27-29). Do you know why? (Deut. 29:4) explains,
"yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day" Even to this day they are still lost, rejecting the Truth. Is anyone stopping them? No. Is anyone stopping those here who listen to the Word of Truth everyday from believing it? No.
---Mark_V. on 4/21/12


"in the path their hearts had already chosen, which was rebellion against God." ginger

Amazing, you're like Blogger9680. It's you who provided Proverbs 16:9 and you come to the conclusion in the above statement? Have you really read Proverbs 16:9? Read again and it tells us clearly, you have no 'free-will'.

To contradict your understanding further, "the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:12

God told Moses, "but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." Exodus 4:21 - why do you not belief it's God who hardens the man as He has declared?
---christan on 4/21/12


Linda 2: To close out my answers, choosing life or death was also emphasized by Jesus. The one who believed in Him had the promise of eternal life, while the one who refused to believe faced eternal death (John 3:1-36). here is the reason they are guilty:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who surpress the Truth in unrighteousness, "because what may be known of God is manifest in them," for God has shown it to them. For snce the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made even the eternal power and Godhead. So that they are without excuse"
---Mark_V. on 4/21/12


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LINDA-HELM - 4/12/12 - Power to choose must be given to us from above ?

EPHESIANS 1:4 According as he hath CHOSEN US in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2 THESSALONIAN 2,13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION Though sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth
---RICHARDC on 4/21/12


Genuine Christians would never belief God who is Almighty, is stop by the decisions of sinful man. What God are you guys worshipping?
The plan He created is complete before Him, even told us how it will end.
He is outside of time.
He is Ruler of all His creation
He is never defeated by anyone or anything.
He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.
He was known as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world.
He brings those who are dead in trespasses and sin and make them alive together with Christ.
He gives them faith to believe in whom they are alive to (Christ).
He grants them repentance in order that they can see their sin.
And most of you say He is defeated by sinful man.
---Mark_V. on 4/21/12


Christan, that is in reference to the crucifixion of Christ. Yes - God used those men to do his will (which was to crucify Christ) in the path their hearts had already chosen, which was rebellion against God.

(Proverbs 16:9)
A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps

Agreed - the power to choose must be given to us from above and God says it is already IN us.(Deut 30:11-20)(Romans 10:6-13). That is why we are held accountable on judgment day.

Christan, even God says we can harden our hearts against him. (Hebrews 3:7-12) Why do you refuse to believe him?
---LindaHelm on 4/21/12


Christan, his death doesnt save you. His death justifies you from your sins. His life saves you!

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life --- Romans 5:10

Why do you think we must believe He is risen from the dead? His life IN you is what saves you. That is why a man is not "saved" before the Spirit of the life of Christ comes to live WITHIN you.
---Blogger9680 on 4/21/12


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LindaHelm, you are right in your first two paragraphs and then your unbelief is exposed by the Spirit when you say "What determines a mans eternity is whether or not he hardens his heart to the Spirit."

Pilate bragged to Christ "knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?" and Christ reply was "Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above"

Acts 4:27,28 revealed, "both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."

Hardening starts with God.
---christan on 4/21/12


"I could easily name people right now by first and last names that are going straight to hell, and don't pass go." Eloy

Wow! Have you raised your status to that of God? The disciples in their sin of self-righteousness asked of Christ, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did? But He turned and rebuked them, and said, You do not know what manner of spirit you are of." Luke 9:54,55

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matthew 7:1,2
---christan on 4/21/12


Blogger9680, you quote Scriptures with no understanding and conviction of what it says. Here, let me share with you.

2 Peter 2:1 "even denying the Lord that bought them", this imply that the death of Christ at Calvary SAVED his people and not made sinners savable, which you believe in the latter. By saying that man has to choose, you deny that His death saved.

The keynote in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 is "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.", and whose love is it that saves the sinner? God's love! Remember, "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated? Only Jacob & the elect will"receive the love of the truth" and never Esau or the reprobates.
---christan on 4/21/12


ROMANS 9:15 For he saith to Moes, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

ROMANS 9:18 Therfore hath he mercy on whom he have mercy, and whom he will he hardenth.
---RICHARDC on 4/20/12


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//It is possible that I can choose to sin but I don't have to because I have the power of Christ in me and can choose not to sin.

Agree totally as that has been the testimony of the church since its conception. However there are those that will not acknowledge that fact that one can sin and they quote 1 John 3:9 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But they have to rely on the old KJV which ignores the Greek tense that the verbs are of a continual nature.
---lee1538 on 4/20/12


Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

The free-willies must really hate this verse and that is why many of them really do not believe all of the Bible is the word of God, that the Bible only contains God's word.
---lee1538 on 4/20/12


Actually Christan, i am not in bondage under sin because Christ lives in me thus I am saved and sin has no power over me anymore. That is what being in Christ does. It gives us a choice to NOT sin. It is possible that I can choose to sin but I don't have to because I have the power of Christ in me and can choose not to sin.
Yes, it happens that I stumble and fall BUT, you don't seem to understand the power Christ gave us when he came to live in us. It is also why you don't understand salvation or the difference between man's will and God's.
---ginger on 4/20/12


God answered this perfectly in Hebrews 3:

Today if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness...Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, "They do alway err in their heart, and they have not known my ways.
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest


Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end
---Blogger9680 on 4/20/12


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Also in 2 Peter 2:1-3

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction

And 2 Thes 2:10-12

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness
---Blogger9680 on 4/20/12


It is definately said in scripture God wants to save everyone and is working through his saints by his power to do that very thing. (2 Peter 3:9, Col 1:19-29, John 12:32)

What stops him from saving everyone?

Mans ability to harden his heart and reject the love of the truth (2 Thes 2:10)

Its safer to believe what God has actually said rather than to draw conclusions of what we THINK he should have said in the first place.

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.
---CraigA on 4/20/12


Christian: 'There's such a thing as eternal security, '

Most Christians will agree, but it has not (at least by the majority of the Church) been put as a formal doctrine.

To me it seems logical, though I can see the logic of Pelagianism as well.
---Matnell on 4/20/12


There are people that choose to hate God, and hate Christ and hate Christians, so they will never be saved until they choose to change their attitude. I could easily name people right now by first and last names that are going straight to hell, and don't pass go. And that is their foolish choice because they chose to blaspheme God's own children inhabited by the Holy Spirit.
---Eloy on 4/20/12


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Whatever happened to the simplicity of the gospel?

I completely agree with you Ginger. Its so simple even a child can understand and respond.

The Spirit is poured out on all flesh and is drawing all men to Jesus just as scripture says.

What determines a mans eternity is whether or not he hardens his heart to the Spirit. It can never be said of any man "God didnt want to save me". Just as the serpent was lifted up, so Jesus is lifted up! Who will look upon him to be healed?

The Holy Lord has done everything for us and simply wants our love. Quite frankly, He deserves it for loving us in our depraved state! What a wonderful Savior!!
---LindaHelm on 4/20/12


"are you denying that man has his own will and own desires?" ginger

What's there to deny when the nature of the man is born in sin? In bondage. Just like Israel was in bondage for four hundred and thirty years in Egypt. And guess who put them there? And guess who brought them out? Did Israel by their own 'free-will' decided to walk out on Egypt on the account that they had enough of being slaves?

You're simply in unbelief that your will is in bondage of sin. Scripture declares,"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." NONE!

But of cos, your 'free-will' will beg to differ. Well, good for you.
---christan on 4/20/12


" So where is the "allowed"?---christan on 4/20/12
"And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, [allowed] only do not lay a hand on his person. [disallowed]"
"So Satan answered the LORD and said, "Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life. And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your hand, [allowed] but spare his life. [disallowed]"
If the Father did not allow Satan to exist, he would not.
---Josef on 4/20/12


So Christan are you denying that man has his own will and own desires?

Humm? What was it Jesus said in the garden of gethsemane?
Oh,"not my will but your will (God) be done"
It says here that Jesus had his own will. In fact when the bible says do not live after the flesh it really means do not live after your own will. Live after God's will.
In your lack of understanding you misinterpret every verse you quote.
Not even the basics of salvation that Jesus said even a child could understand. not trying to be harsh, but truth is truth. get out of false beliefs and read the Bible through spirtual eyes not "fleshly" ones.
Oh and carnal mind is the same as fleshly mind..a person's own will and desires.
---ginger on 4/20/12


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Who are you exalting in Luke 22:31-32 and Job 1:8-9? God alone or the men Peter and Job? I hope one realize, the verses quoted merely confirms and solidifies the doctrine of eternal security.

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing" John 6:39, "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:29

See? There's such a thing as eternal security, which you don't believe. Satan was never going to succeed in "plucking" Peter and Job from God's hand, that's because they're God's elect.
---christan on 4/20/12


Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
---francis on 4/20/12


Luke 22:31_32 "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

Job 1:8_9 "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?"
---Nana on 4/20/12


"Allowed"? Did Satan asked God to allow him to do evil? "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4

When Job was attacked by Satan did he give "glory" to Satan? This was what Job say to his wife, "Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?" Job 2:10

Satan was created to serve God's purpose of doing evil, which he cannot but do. So where is the "allowed"? Even Satan and his cohorts does not have 'free-will' - and fallen man has?
---christan on 4/20/12


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"Man,s free will prevents him from being saved." weatherbill

We keep hearing of this kind of salvation from 'free-willers' like you but none of you have provided a Scripture to uphold your believe.

Now, how does your understanding stand against this from Paul, "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction" Romans 9:21,22

I understand this as one is going to hell is because that's where God wants you and vice-versa to heaven, as explained in verse 11 of the same chapter.
---christan on 4/20/12


"What stops Him from saving everyone? Satan's influence, allowed of the Father since the beginning. "Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." And Satan "hath blinded [the unbeliever's] eyes, and hardened their heart, that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and [Jesus] should heal them. For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed. "The god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." Note Rom 6:16
---Josef on 4/20/12


"Man,s free will prevents him from being saved. Without faith, it impossible to please God. The proud he resists." weatherbill

It's confirmed, the man's 'free-will' is rooted in darkness. For who in the right frame of mind is told by God that eternal life is found in His Son, still rejects this Truth and rather go to hell? Simply proving that 'free-will' is not only dumb and foolish, it has no power to save the man from his sin.

The only "faith" that pleases God is His gift of "faith", which solely belongs to Him. Man does not posses this "faith" unless He gives it to you. It cannot be earned! As for being proud, even the Christian is proud.
---christan on 4/20/12


Man,s free will prevents him from being saved. Without faith, it impossible to please God. The proud he resists.
---weatherbill on 4/19/12


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Mark, that is a question I've been asking all along, and the answer is "Nothing."
---John.usa on 4/19/12


Even though it is God's desire that "everyone be saved", only those who are willing to forsake the ways of corruption and seek divine redemption will find His Son as the final sin sacrifice.

God's children should not be loved for the gift of redemption (ONLY GOD HIMSELF should be given devotional/spiritual love).

Neither ministers nor fellow believers shall share any glory that belongs to GOD ONLY (do not have a CORBAN devotion). Either be kind or unkind to ALL people. Show no preference for the brethren ("SHOW no partiality", James 2:1).

Because of the way devotion has been taught for many centuries, many believers will have an apostate devotion,.....they will be saved, but "as through fire".
---more_excellent_way on 4/19/12


MoreExcellentWay, you contradict yourself.

First you say, "By our own efforts, we are incapable of correctly understanding", incapable means - not having the necessary ability or strength to perform. Then in the same breath you contradict yourself saying "Only when a person seeks GOD".

How does one who's "incapable by his own effort" suddenly becomes "capable"? Let alone "seeking God", who's a Spirit? How does a man suddenly become a capable spirit that he's able to seek God? Didn't the Bible tell us we're all "dead in sins and trespasses"?
---christan on 4/19/12


COMPLETE "salvation" is a TWO STEP process. Hebrews uses the word "purification" to specify that our flesh is no longer bound to the 10 commandment law of sin and death.

Luke 3:6 "all flesh shall see salvation".

God's will has been done, salvation has been MADE AVAILABLE to every human being, HOWEVER, only those who have sincerely sought the creator shall have purification of the flesh. If they are GOOD STUDENTS of God's Spirit, their "salvation" will become COMPLETE (Hebrews 9:14).

The Jews did not have the final sin sacrifice, they needed to obtain purification from the 10 commandments year after year.

Hebrews 1:3 "When He had made purification for sins...".
---more_excellent_way on 4/19/12


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If you say to your mother "Mom, as a gift to you, I sent a check to charity", she will say to you "I don't appreciate your gift....it is CORBAN". The Lord enables the sincere to understand the principle of "Corban" in Mark 7:11. Like many of His secrets, God's wisdom ("the depths of God", 1 Corin. 2:10) is on a 'need to know' basis (if you personally have decided that you have 'no need' for His wisdom, you will not find it). We have been taught to love God in a 'Corban manner' by being loving to His children and performing works/deeds (oh well, all is not lost...."FOR GOD IS NOT SO UNJUST....").

Remember, "FOR GOD IS NOT SO UNJUST..." (Hebrews 6:10, the apostate devotion).
---more_excellent_way on 4/19/12


Nobody stops him, we just refuse to except his free gift:

"From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more."(JHn 6:66)

"But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."(JHn 5:39-40)

"These things happened to them as examples for us. They were written down to warn us who live at the end of the age."

"If you think you are standing strong, be careful not to fall."( 1 Cor 10:11-12

"And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
"Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes"(LK 19:41-42)
---Ruben on 4/19/12


Humanity has unknowingly accepted the ways of satan. The weakness/handicap of being mortal (instead of divine/spiritual) and having 'physical' flesh to provide for (eating, shelter, etc.) is an overwhelming burden ("flesh" is not innately evil) which prevents true understanding. By our own efforts, we are incapable of correctly understanding God/divine spirituality. Only when a person seeks GOD as their ONLY spiritual teacher will they gain proper understanding of what is DIVINELY SPIRITUAL, otherwise, we only THINK WE UNDERSTAND properly. One of satan's lies is that there is only one element to SALVATION, but in Hebrews, we are told there is....1) purification of the FLESH and

2) purification of the CONSCIENCE (SPIRIT).
---more_excellent_way on 4/19/12


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