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Day Six Of Creation

Is 24 hours long enough to accomplish all things mentioned in day six?

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 ---1st_cliff on 4/22/12
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Cliff, evening is the end of daylight,which God called "day" and the beginning of darkness which God called "night." As we still do! Morning is the end of nighttime and the beginning of daytime. Just as it is today!

Following this description God says this was-"the first day."

By now we all know God is here describing the first ever 24hr day. If there was any other time-period which could be so described, including being called the "first day" then one of the present Bibliosceptics whould willingly have provided this information. But no one has because such time period does not exist. But will you BiblioSceptics believe what God has said? No.
---Warwick on 4/29/12


jerry6593:

Creating sun, moon, and stars in a 24 hour period would provide some fairly catastrophic alerations in angular momentum too. Gathering all the waters on earth into one place in 24 hours would also be extremely catastrophic. If pro-24-hour people can ignore egregious violations of the laws of physics, they can't very well honestly accuse anti-24-hour people of not sticking with those same laws.
---StrongAxe on 4/29/12


\\to ask you for the source is not unreasonable. the school systems make our kids watch "science" programs about evolution but that does not make darwinism true science\\

The impact theory of the origin of the moon, and cosmology in general, have NOTHING to do with Darwinism or the evolution of life.

Please do not confuse them.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/29/12


Cluny, I asked "when did the earth do one revolution in 6 hours, and how do you know this?"

As I expect3ed your 'answer' lacks fact and is but speculation. Just a belief about what may have happened in the past. You don't know.
---Warwick on 4/29/12


//Apparently, neither of you have watched any science programs about the creation of the moon.// cluny

to ask you for the source is not unreasonable. the school systems make our kids watch "science" programs about evolution but that does not make darwinism true science.
---aka on 4/29/12




Jerry, If evening and morning are metaphorical where's the Long days and nights?
Why metaphoric? From the evening 'till the morning is technically describing "over night"
From sunset to sunset is 24 hrs.
from noon 'till noon, or midnight to midnight!
Not evening to morning!
Why metaphoric?
Evening is darkness (beginning of a creative day,) by "morning" a clear finished product called "good".
---1st_cliff on 4/29/12


\\Cluny when did the earth do one revolution in 6 hours, and how do you know this?\\

**ot a big believer in the law of Conservation of Angular Momentum, are you?**

Apparently, neither of you have watched any science programs about the creation of the moon.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/29/12


//At one time the earth's rotation took just 6 or so hours.//

source?

the only thing that i can find is a cartoon called zula patrol on qubo.
---aka on 4/29/12


Cluny when did the earth do one revolution in 6 hours, and how do you know this?
---Warwick on 4/29/12


Cliff: You have just set up a scenario wherein vegetation must survive long periods (prehaps millions of years) in both darkness evening) and light (morning). Try that with your plants and see how long they live. You further deny the biblical account of instantaneous creation.

Psa 33:6,9 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. ... For he spake, and it was done, he commanded, and it stood fast.


Cluny: "At one time the earth's rotation took just 6 or so hours."

Not a big believer in the law of Conservation of Angular Momentum, are you?
---jerry6593 on 4/29/12




\\Jerry, The earth has always rotated at the same speed (approx 1,000 MPH)
God's creation periods,\\

This is not true.

At one time the earth's rotation took just 6 or so hours.

Even now, the earth's rotation varies slightly. Leap seconds (as they are called ) have to be added every so often, including the end of the year.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/28/12


Mark, what does precision time mean-Exactly?

The Exodus Scriptures you will not deal with clearly show 'day' with a number means a 24hr earth day-e.g. Exodus 19:10 "the third day."

I have challenged all and sundry to provide what other time-period (other than 24hr day) has daylight and nighttime, evening and morning and is called "the first day." Absolute silence!

In John 11:9 Jesus clearly shows that He believed in a 24hr day pointing out that the light part of a day is 12hrs.

We all know when 'day' and a number are combined it means a 24hr day e.g. John 11:6. But some claim that in Genesis where 'day' and a number are first combined it doesn't mean 24hr day! I smell a rat!
---Warwick on 4/28/12


Jerry, The earth has always rotated at the same speed (approx 1,000 MPH)
God's creation periods, "yoms", were not dependant on how many times the earth went around! Vegetation had lots of time to grow.
Look at a rose,peach,watermelon,robin,peanut,oak tree,octopus,etc.
Tell me they were not carefully designed,but zapped in seconds...no way!
When He finished each phase He declared it good!
He used this pattern (6 yoms) to establish the 6 day work week.It then became law!
He had no reason to "cram" each yom into 24 hrs.
Jesus said "My Father has kept working 'till now" Jn.5.17
WORKING= designing, creating,marvelous stuff!
---1st_cliff on 4/28/12


Cliff, John 11:6 "So, when he heard that Lazarus was ill, he stayed two days longer in the place where he was." These "two days" were they the same length? If so why?

John 11:17 "Now when Jesus came, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb four days." These "four days" are they all the same length? If so why?

Ezekiel 31:1 "In the eleventh year, in the third month, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:"

Is "the first day" of the month a 24hr day and of the same length as the third day, the 10th day, the 20th day...? If so why?
---Warwick on 4/28/12


jerry6593:

I never said they were necessarily different. They may very well be the same. All I keep saying is, we have no basis to ASSUME they are the same, as in every case, the criteria we use to establish how long a day is did not apply then.

Was there an evening and morning on the first day? Yes. But those were NOT based on sunset or sunrise, since there was no sun to set or rise yet. Were they 24 hours long? Maybe, but 24 hours do not DEFINE a day, they are merely a phenomenon of sunrise/sunset on earth (which, again, were not meaningful during days 1-3).

God plainly did not say just how long those days were, because it's not important to the story of Genesis. Why do YOU think it's important? This is choking on gnats.
---StrongAxe on 4/28/12


LeeAxeCliff: OK, ye who want Days 1-3 to be "different", just how long do you think they were? If they were significantly longer (long enough for some form of Evolution), how do you explain the survival of the Day 3 vegetation with such long daylight and darkness periods?

The entire veracity of your arguments hangs on your answer to this one question - so don't pass it by again.


---jerry6593 on 4/28/12


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Warwick:

Why is it so important for you to win this particular argument? I don't keep bringing it up in blog after blog (most of which do not even relate to this issue), yet you keep doing so. Why do you do that? I just respond to you when you bring it up again and again.

Granted, THIS particular blog is one specifically devoted to this question (so it IS appropriate to bring it up here). But it would be interesting to know why it is so important to you for people to believe something that the Bible does not actually explicitly say anywhere.
---StrongAxe on 4/28/12


Warwick, You have to admit that a "yom' is a period of time.
That God took 6 yoms to create is a given.
Need they be all the same length? Why?
Insisting that he cram everything into 24 hrs (for one yom) is ridiculous!
Six phases of creation ,using evening and morning metaphorically, was the pattern to establish a 6 day work week,but of course "these days" are all 24 hr.!
Evolution doesn't happen,perfection of "design" did!
Why did the 7th day not close with evening and morning??? What time period is this?
---1st_cliff on 4/28/12


Warwick, you want me to say the day has 24 hrs exact when it doesn't. Why would you want a lie to be Truth? If it was written as 24hr it would be a lie since it doesn't have 24hrs exact. It has 23hrs 56 min. You didn't want me to give you the passage which Jesus spoke which speaks of a day having 12 hrs, but you want me to except the one in Exodus. We know what the intend is without the word giving precision time.
When we affirm that God's Word is without error, we should understand this statement in the same way that we would the statement that a particular report or analysis is accurate and without error. It is important to distinguish levels of intended precision.
Give one reason why the time has to be exact?
---Mark_V. on 4/28/12


Mark, you avoided answering my questions regarding Exodus 19:10,14, 20:8-11, and 31:14. Please do so. These Scriptures show your approximate time idea is incorrect. If you believe I am wrong about this please show me where and how.

The Scripture you refer to is John 11:9. It does not claim what you say, and is irrelevant to the discussion.

As I have shown Genesis 1:3-5 in 3 ways defines only a 24hr day. If you believe these 3 descriptors can be applied to any other period of time then say so. If you cannot be honest enough to admit God is speaking of 24hr day. Do you notice no one has been brave enough or honest enough to admit the obvious. Why? Because to do so would undermine their nonBiblical man-made beliefs.
---Warwick on 4/27/12


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Is 24 hours long enough to accomplish all things mentioned in day six?
---1st_cliff on 4/22/12

Yes
And there was even time left over to make a woman. And as everyone knows women are very complicated
---francis on 4/27/12


Jesus said,"Are there not twelve hours in the day?" Here Jesus did not mean that the day had 12 hrs. ---markv

hemera time between dawn and dusk...daytime. no he did not even say day as in Monday, Tuesday... he said twelve hours in the daytime.

strongaxe, i agree. there is no reason for me to think it is more or less. i take it as it comes. and if anybody can show me why it is so important to make it more or less, that is provide witness to the Truth, then i will consider that.
---aka on 4/27/12


Warwick, how can anyone give you a precise time when there is no precise time mentioned in Genesis? It is silly. You want to pin something as truth when God did not put that truth down. Everyone has to make his own mind what it must mean to them. I know Jesus didn't mean "Are there not twelve hours in a day? (John 10:9). Day there was not 12 hrs. Because day is mentioned again. "If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble" He is speaking of the light of day (the sun). Then He turns around and says, "But if one walks in the night, he stumbles, (here is why) the light is not in him" How can the light be in him if we assume the light was the suns light? It does not light within us. The Spirit does.
---Mark_V. on 4/27/12


aka:

One can conjecture that they MAY be the same. One could even go to far as to say they PROBABLY are the same. But one can't say FOR SURE that they ARE DEFINITELY the same.
---StrongAxe on 4/26/12


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It is so easy to say Genesis does not say the days of creation are 24hr days. However as time has shown not one person has given a cogent argument in support of their belief. Not one!

It is so easy to solve. Genesis 1:3-5 ends with "the first day." Now if we are to believe it is neither the first or a 24hr day there has to be some support from Scripture, grammar or last of all logic. But there is none as the silence here perfectly demonstrates. If this text should support some time-period other than a 24hr day then someone would be able to show us what other time-period is called the first day, and is comprised of daylight and nighttime and evening and morning. But not a word just absolutely unsupported rhetoric.
---Warwick on 4/27/12


LeeAxeCliff: OK, ye who want Days 1-3 to be "different", just how long do you think they were? If they were significantly longer (long enough for some form of Evolution), how do you explain the survival of the Day 3 vegetation with such long daylight and darkness periods? The entire veracity of your arguments hangs on your answer to this one question - so don't pass it by.


---jerry6593 on 4/27/12


Warwick, I answer all your (and other's) questions.
When they don't get posted it looks like I'm not answering.
Fundamentalists helping fundamentalists?????
---1st_cliff on 4/27/12


Warwick, I disagree with your precision. Nothing is precise in Gen. 24 hrs are not mentioned. Gen is not meant to be precise. You are trying to add what is not there in Gen. If God said 24hrs He would have been off. Did He want to be precise? No. Approximately is Ok.

Jesus said,"Are there not twelve hours in the day?" Here Jesus did not mean that the day had 12 hrs. He was speaking spiritually truth, that the time would soon come (nighttime) when, by God's design, His earthly work would end and He would "stumble" in death. Jesus was stressing that as long as He was on earth doing God's will, even at this late time in His ministry, He would safely complete God's purposes"
---Mark_V. on 4/27/12


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however, if a + b = c in 4 out of seven times, then can't we safely conclude that a and b are the same in the first three cases?

the danger of saying that assuming that a and b are different than this a and b (especially in such close proximity) is the foundation of heresy. ... this resurrection here is different than that resurrection there.
---aka on 4/26/12


The point isn't whether the first 3 days were 24 hours or not - it's that the Bible doesn't say one way or other. strongaxe

that is my point also. i just gave the reasons why i believe one more than the other.
---aka on 4/26/12


aka:

The point isn't whether the first 3 days were 24 hours or not - it's that the Bible doesn't say one way or other. Rather, if we try to categorically say that they were 24 hours, or that were not 24 hours, in either case, we are reading between the lines and making assumptions about something that the Bible describe in detail.

If we say it's based on the rotation of the earth with respect to the sun, this cannot be used to describe the first 3 days. If we say it's always 24 hours regardless of celestial mechanics, it fails on Joshua's Day.
---StrongAxe on 4/26/12


StrongLee, there were no days before the earth was created, read the Bible!

I gave you every opportunity to suggest what time period other than 24hr day is composed of daylight and nighttime, and evening and morning and like the 24hr day in Ezekiel is "the first day." But you ducked and weaved because you willingly refuse to accept the obvious.

You would have us believe "the first day" may or not be 24hrs, but your actions show you believe otherwise. You know what "the first day" means in Ezekiel, and elsewhere but not in Genesis!

God's word says He created light which brought about "the first day." What part of "the first day" do you not undestand?
---Warwick on 4/26/12


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ucneal, that which you refer to demonstrates that God does not live days of any length, as He is eternal. However we aren't but live in time. That God created in 6 earth days, as per Genesis 1 proves, was to set a template for man's 6 days of work and one of rest-see Exodus 20:8-11. As Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. Not for God.
---Warwick on 4/26/12


Mark read Exodus 19:10 'the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their garments and be ready by the third day, because on that day the LORD will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people." Is this approximate time? Or is He speaking of only 24hr days?

Exodus 31:14 "You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death...." For the Israelites was "the 7th day" approximate time?

In Exodus 20:8-11 God commands the Israelites-work 6 days and rest the 7th because I created in 6 days and rested the 7th. Considering Exodus 19:14 are these days approximates or 24hr days?
---Warwick on 4/26/12


Everyone puts God and Jesus in a box, comparing our lives and time to Gods time...The bible clearly states that "a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day" God does not look at time at all. He is Omnipitant and Omnepresent. He is right now in the begining and at the end......Do not question what already is...
---ucneal on 4/26/12


Given that, how do we know the first 3 "days" were 24 hour periods when the Sun hadnt even been created yet?
---CraigA on 4/25/12

how do we know it wasn't? there is more evidence that points one way and not the other. we have a span of time that falls into evening and day at day 4 through 7. the three time periods before were longer in our time. maybe it was shorter. with God, All things are possible.
---aka on 4/25/12


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Warwick:

Of course, Ezekiel's mention of a day (as is every other mention of a biblical day (except Joshua's long day) AFTER THE SUN AND EARTH WERE CREATED refer to 24 hour days.

However, no matter how many such references you find, these days HAVE NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the lengths of days BEFORE the sun and earth were created, because ALL the subsequent days rely on the relationship between the sun and the earth THAT DID NOT EXIST BEFORE DAY FOUR. What part of this do you not understand?
---StrongAxe on 4/26/12


Warwick, Move on?
This question is not answered. Bible based answers?
Light means 24 hr. day?
And darkness means? "Oh well it's all in there together, light, dark " bible based?
God said "this is the 1st yom" creation period.(I am a bible believer in 6 yoms of creation)
God used this pattern in enacting the "weekly" law,forever after referring to the "law" when mentioning "for in 6 days God made heaven and earth"(re affirming the 6 yoms)
This explanation satifies sceptics and believers because it is bible based and makes sense!
---1st_cliff on 4/26/12


Warwick, the Bible should be understood within the parameters of precision intended by the authors.
1. Numbers are often given approximately, a frequent practice in popular communications.
2. Speeches and quotations may be paraphrases rather than reproduced verbatim, a usual practice when summarizing someone else's words.
3. The world may be described in phenomenological terms, meaning, (how events appear to human viewers, not God's point of view).
4. Speeches made by men or Satan, are recorded or paraphrased accurately without implying that what these persons affirmed was correct.
5. Sources were sometimes used by a writer to make a point without implying divine affirmation of everything else which that source said.
---Mark_V. on 4/26/12


The REAL issue here is not the exactness of the 24-hour day or whether God is capable of the instantaneous creation that the Bible claims. The REAL issue is this -- Were the creation days in fact millions of years long, such that Evolution in some form was possible? Do any of you metaphorists believe that the Holy Scriptures support a multi-million year creation?


---jerry6593 on 4/26/12


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StrongAxe, you posed the idea that Jesus was speaking metaphorically as regards Genesis. I showed he was not. You do not admit the obvious and move on to another idea.

As I have said before it matters not whether the days are 23, or 25 hours. We call days 24hrs, which are not exactly 24hrs, for convenience. It changes nothing.

You say Scripture does not define days as being 24hrs. However consider Ezekiel 31:1 "In the eleventh year, in the third month, on the first day (shades of Genesis 1:5) of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:"

Is this an ordinary, earth-rotation 24hr day or not? Or do you maintain that as it does not say 24hrs we cannot know?
---Warwick on 4/25/12


Cliff I am not side-stepping, you are as I am explaining what Genesis 1:3-5 says, and you propose no alternative explanation based upon Scripture, because you cannot.

As God says He created light which by 3 definitions means 24hr day:

1) It is composed of daylight and nighttime.
2)It has evening and morning.
3) God says this was "the first day."

Any one of these three describes the 24hr days man has always lived. When combined together to a Bible believer they definitely mean a 24hr day.

Read what I wrote to Mark concerning Ezekiel. Am I wrong?

This question has been answered, and answered. Move on to another of my unanswered questions.
---Warwick on 4/25/12


Warwick:

I have been constantly saying that:
1) The creation days MAY have been 24 hours
2) They may also have NOT been 24 hours
3) Genesis doesn't say one way or other, because nowhere in the Bible is the phrase "24 hours" (nor anything remotely resembling it) ever mentioned.

Since, with the exception of Joshua's Long Day, all days witnessed by man (i.e. days 7 and later) have dealt with a stable sun/earth arrangement, of course THOSE days all HAPPEN to be around 24 hours long. However, that does not prove that the days before that were 24 hours long. If, say, the earth were to slow down and take 25 hours to make a complete cycle, days would now be 25 hours long.
---StrongAxe on 4/25/12


Warwick,That's a little fancy side step your tripping here!
Now you're saying God fixed a light source on day one-three, then replaced it with the sun and end with "If you don't believe that it's your problem!! Nice try!
That's the best you can come up with to explain darkness on the far side of the earth??
Heaven must have always been dark since the very first thing God said was "Let there be light"?
How does that work???
Light of understanding?
"HE" separated light from darkness. When you finally "get it" does a light come on in your head? Doesn't that end the darkness??
---1st_cliff on 4/25/12


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Mark, you have criticized my precision before but have never explained what you mean. I assume you refer to my comments about Genesis 1:3-5. Please explain my over-precision in detail supplying quotes.

When we talk of day-length we must remember that throughout the Bible when 'day' is accompanied by a number it means 24hrs.

For example read Ezekiel 32:1. When he wrote "the first day" did he mean the first 24hr day of the 12th month or not? If I am correct here why am I too precise in believing "the first day" in Genesis 1:5 to be likewise the first 24hr day?

Remember also that in Exodus 20:8-11 God says He created in 6 days, are they 24hrs or not?
---Warwick on 4/25/12


StrongAxe you would have us believe that because '24hrs' does not appear in the Bible that people did not live 24hr days nor understand what ther first day, the second day... means. We are no smarter than they and we, even children, know what one day, two days, the first day, the second day means.

I can imagine a court case where the witness says "We arrived on the fourth day." You then say "but you have not said we arrived on the fourth 24hr day so how can we know what you mean?" You would be laughed out of court, and rightly so.
---Warwick on 4/25/12


Warwick:

We are all prepared to take Genesis 1:3-5 as written - believing all the words that are actually there, and leaving all the words that are not actually there out of it.

Yet in almost every single post on this matter, you seem to insist on including "24 hours" everywhere - words that are NOT in Genesis 1:3-5 (or anywhere else in Genesis, or anywhere else in the Bible).

We are all trying to read the lines, while you are trying to read between them. Why can't we just agree that "Genesis says what it says"?
---StrongAxe on 4/25/12


StrongAxe, Jesus knowing He made Adam and Eve on day six of His creation obviously considered 6 days out of 4,000 years "at the beginning." If those who propose long days are correct Jesus got this wrong. Did He get things wrong?

A typo, should be Mark 13:19.

Luke 10:19 Jesus alludes to Genesis 3:15, no metaphor.

Luke 17:26,26 shows no metephor but that the destruction of the world during the flood was world-wide as will be at the coming destruction He speaks of. See also Matthew ch.24. No metaphor here.

Luke 8:44 calls Satan a murderer from the beginning, as he was, no metaphor.

John 16:20,21 refers to the reality of Genesis 3:16.

You misunderstand John 11:26
---Warwick on 4/25/12


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Cliff, it is obvious from Genesis 1:3-5 that the first ever daylight and nighttime evening and morning day came about after God said. "Let there be light and there was light." If you do not have the faith to believe God created a fixed light source to light the earth without the sun then that is your problem. If you are correct heaven is going to be somewhat dark as there is no sun there.

Question asked and asked and asked, and answered, move on. Plenty of my questions to go!
---Warwick on 4/25/12


Aka, why can we not take Genesis 1:3-5 as written?
---Warwick on 4/25/12


Warwick:

Genesis says Adam and Eve weren't created until 6 days AFTER "the beginning", but Jesus didn't think it necessary to be that precise.

What does Mark 13:9 have to do with reality vs. metaphor?

Does Luke 10:19 mean all Christians invulnerable? What about martyrs?

Luke 17:26,27 MUST be metaphor, since God promised to NEVER AGAIN destroy the earth with a flood.

John 8:44 was addressed to people whose physical fathers were NOT Satan.

John 16:20: does the world have emotions, and a voice?

The abundance of Christian cemetaries means either John 11:26 is a metaphor, or 99% of Christians throughout history (including Stephen, Peter, Paul, etc.) didn't believe in Jesus.
---StrongAxe on 4/25/12


Here is something puzzling to think about.

"Day" and "night" were created on day 1. On day 1 there was said to be "evening" and "morning".... BUT without the sun, moon and stars because those werent created until day 4.

Given that, how do we know the first 3 "days" were 24 hour periods when the Sun hadnt even been created yet?
---CraigA on 4/25/12


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Cliff: "When has a day ever ended in the morning?"

Since the beginning of time, on the first day of Creation Week - as Warwick has told you. The question you should be asking is "How did the definition change?" The answer is found in scripture, where the change is credited to the "little horn", "beast", "man of sin" power. This power also formally changed the Lord's Day from the seventh day to the first day of the week.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


---jerry6593 on 4/25/12


AxeMark: "Since Jesus himself often spoke in metaphors, one must assume he and his listeners were familiar with them."

I find it humorous that you consider God's own handwritten, matter-of-fact statement "For in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth" (Exo 20:11) to be a metaphor and yet you believe the parable of the rich man and Lazarus to be factual.


---jerry6593 on 4/25/12


Warwick, I also disagree with your thinking. You try to make precise what is not precise in God's Word and run into opposition.
When we affirm that God's Word is without error, we should understand this statement in the same way that we would the statement that a particular report or analysis is accurate and without error. It is important to distinguish levels of intended precision. Here is an example,
Most of us would agree the United States population is 220 million people, even though this figure may actually be incorrect by several million people. However both the speaker and the hearer recognize that this figure is intended to be an appromimation and that when understood within its intended level of precision it is a true statement.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/12


Warwick, Are you just being coy or what? The darkness is on the far side from what????There's no sun!
Any one in space sees the shadow cast from the sun!
There's always darkness "somewhere" on earth as there is always light.
Not facing the sun where's the starting point??
Earth was in orbit around the sun before the sun existed?
Evening and morning is looking more and more metephoric!
---1st_cliff on 4/24/12


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StrongAxe, read what Jesus quoted from Genesis .

In Luke 11:51 Jesus speaks of the blood of righteous Abel shed from the beginning of the world. Metaphor or fact? Note He the Creator, says this occurred at the beginning not thousands or millions of years after the beginning.

In Matthew 19:4 Jesus talks of Adam and Eve's creation, again at the beginning of the creation, not millions of years later. Metaphor or fact? Is Adam therefore metaphor, and his sin just a metaphor? If Adam's sin is a metaphor is Jesus death and resurrection (the result of Adam's sin) also a metaphor?

What about Matthew 23:35, Mark 10:8, 13:9, Luke 10:19, 11:51, 17:26,27, John 8:44, 16:20. Are Jesus' words metaphor or sober history?
---Warwick on 4/24/12


//taking Genesis 1:3-5 at face value, and there is no reason to do otherwise, // --Warwick

yes there is. to twist and dispute God's word and slip in your own version of life. the serpent did it in the garden of eden. oldest trick in the Book.
---aka on 4/24/12


1Cliff,

As someone who lived and worked in Israel, the day beginning at sundown is initially odd. That the working week begins on Sunday (technically Saturday evening) is also weird, at first, to grasp. Eventually you get used to it and your western goyim mentality slips away.

Without clocks, sundials etc, knowing the day begins at sundown is easy, plus most people are active and up then. Makes perfect sense to me.
---Marc on 4/24/12


Cliff, taking Genesis 1:3-5 at face value, and there is no reason to do otherwise, God defined our 24hr day 2 ways. He created light, and that light shining upon the earth brought about "day" on the nearside of the earth and darkness which He called night, on the far side. Just as anyone in space would see today.

He then says "And there was evening and there was morning-the first day." He is instituting the 24hr cycle where each new day begins at evening and ends at the next evening. For example the Jews rest the Sabbath from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset. Saturday begins Friday at sunset. Where do you think they got that from?

This describes nothing other than a 24hr day.
---Warwick on 4/24/12


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Warwick, Step by step:
So day begins (also ends) at sundown. By just starting evening and ending morning technically is just describing over night.No mention of "daytime"(my reason for thinking metaphor)
With the absence of sun and a omnipresent God (light) how is darkness accomplished? The earth would have no dark side!
Simply reading Genesis doesn't cut it!
---1st_cliff on 4/24/12


Warwick:

You said: But if you do not believe Genesis 1:3-5 (in fact the whole of Genesis)is sober history (as Jesus and the apostles took it) on what basis do you believe any NT book?

Since Jesus himself often spoke in metaphors, one must assume he and his listeners were familiar with them. If he saw a metaphor somewhere else, he could easily comment on it, without necessarily having to believe it was literally true. If Jesus is the vine, we can believe we are the branches, without needing to also believe Jesus was made of wood, or that we are made of grapes.

One cannot deduce from the fact that Jesus and the Apostles quoted Genesis that they necessarily assumed it was literally true, and not just metaphorically true.
---StrongAxe on 4/24/12


Cliff, work through my questions I will deal with what you ask.

In Genesis 1:3-5 "the first day" is composed of the light part "day" and the dark part "night." Exactly as in a 24hr day today. Note "day" is not accompanied by a number so means "day", e.g. "I spent the day (daytime) fishing"

In the Middle East each new day begins at "evening" which is the end of daylight and the beginning of darkness, which leads to "morning" i.e. daylight, which leads to the next "evening"....... Just as in 24hr days today. So these verses describe a 24hr day two ways.

Do you know of another period of time so described?
---Warwick on 4/24/12


Warwick, When has a day ever ended in the morning?
Not even in the middle east do days end in the morning.
Who's ridiculous now?
Our day begins from midnight to midnight.
It is sober history just not your interpretation of it!
Again you go off the deep end with drivel!
If it's a human skull it's obviously post Adam. (what's your point?)
Darkness?????
---1st_cliff on 4/23/12


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Cliff, answer all my questions then pose yours.

The idea Genesis 1:3-5 is a metaphor is too ridiculous for words. This is an evasion of the question, a non-answer.

But if you do not believe Genesis 1:3-5 (in fact the whole of Genesis)is sober history (as Jesus and the apostles took it) on what basis do you believe any NT book? Maybe Jesus dying and rising again is a metaphor. Maybe it just mirrors the going down and the rising of the sun? Maybe He never physically rose?

The fossil record shows death, disease and suffering of man and beast. I have seen where it contains the skull of a human which was penetrated by the teeth of a large cat. Where does this historically fit in? Is it pre or post Adam's sin?
---Warwick on 4/23/12


Warwick, I do answer your questions but you don't comment on them!
What other time period?
Starting out at evening getting brighter 'till full sun of morning is metaphoric, so length of day is immaterial!
Words of Jesus and His "Bonafide" apostles are believable!
Jesus verified the OT !
You've yet to answer where night (darkness) came from when no sun was present (day 1-3)
Creation started out perfect deteriorating to the mess of today. (Satan having a short time creating havoc)
---1st_cliff on 4/23/12


StrongAxe, the beginning of my blog should of course read-that Scripture does not have 24 and hrs together is irrelevant..
---Warwick on 4/23/12


Cliff, you constantly pose questions but rarely, if ever, answer any:

If you believe this day (of Genesis 1:3-5) can be of some other length please tell me what other time-period, other than a 24hr day, is composed of daylight and nighttime, and evening and morning?

But if you do not believe what Genesis here says, on what basis do you believe any NT book?

Romans 8:22 says the whole creation (not just man) suffers because of the fall. It went quickly from perfection with which God endowed it to increasing imperfection. Or do you say it always the mess it is today?

Why should I continue to answer your questions if you do not answer mine. I suppose it is because I have answers!
---Warwick on 4/23/12


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StrongAxe, that Scripture does have 24 and hrs together is irrelevant, because those without an ulterior motive understand what 1 day is. See Leviticus 25 which mentions various years many times and never has 365 day and years together. It does not need to say a 365 day year (or 12month years) for us to understand, does it? Likewise is speaks of the tenth day not the tenth 24hr day. Therefore by your argument we cannot know what God means here! What a confusing, evasive and incompetent god you propose. In fact if you are correct we cannot know what God means anywhere He says hour, day, week, month, year etc. What nonsense.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
---Warwick on 4/23/12


Paul says that when our Groom Jesus returns for us, we will be changed . . . resurrected . . . "in the twinkling of an eye" (1 Corinthians 15:52). Our bodies, then, made of the dust of this earth, will be changed "in a twinkling of an eye" into God's own glory. And "the creation itself will also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God," we have in Romans 8:21. So, I can see that God is able to twinkle this whole creation into our "glorious liberty" of the resurrection. So, I would think He could have made the whole universe in less than a day . . . easier and faster than we can think about it (c:
---willie_c: on 4/23/12


aka, The question is not doubting God's ability,but the interpretation of the length of time each creation day. Possible for God but Adam was human (not superman)
How many thousand birds and animals can you name in a day?
Plus be put to sleep,have a bone removed to create a female, recover and function being new to life yourself.
You somehow believe Adam was created and adjusted to life as a human in a matter of minutes? Let's get real huh?
---1st_cliff on 4/23/12


Cliff: If your boss told you to work five undefined time periods each week, what are the chances that you'd be fired? It's impossible to obey what you don't know how to obey. Your boss would also be intentionally evasive and deceitful for such nebulous specification. Do you think that's the way God is? Do you think that God is a deceiver? Do you think that He works too slowly to get it all done? Since He spoke matter into existence, do you think that He has a severe speech impediment?


---jerry6593 on 4/23/12


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It's eazy to say God doesn't live in time or experience time the way we do : Book chapter and verse please.
---1st_cliff on 4/23/12


Mar 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God."

even if Jesus were Michael twice-baked, an archangel would not question God on how quickly that he can accomplish anything. and your logic is more credible than all scripture?
---aka on 4/22/12


You don't think that God experiences time in the same way as us, do you?

That's what your question implies.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/22/12


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