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Sit Under Others Teaching

Why is it people will sit under the TEACHING/PREACHING of others, and believe everything they see and hear?

Why is it people will never take time to study scripture for themselves, and examine scripture to see if what they saw or heard is indeed true?

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 ---Rob on 4/26/12
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God made several covenants in the bible. Many of them depending only on God's word.

Examples:
The covenant with Noah: SIgn of the rainbow. This is based ONLY on Gods word

The covenant to make Abraham a great nation: Again based only on Gods word

The ten commandments: It is the word of God and unchanging. Violation is sin

1 Cor 15:56 the strength of sin is the law.
( I will have to explain that to you later)
Romans 7:7 Is the law sin? God forbid

The covenant with israel. This is a two way covenant. A conditional covenant. It is based on the people's ability to obey " all that the lord hath said."

The NEW covenant. unconditional. Based on Gods ability to write his laws in our hearts
---francis on 5/1/12


Francis, (pt.1 of 2)

Are you now saying that the covenant spoken of in Deut.4 and 5 is different from the one in Exo.19 and 20? Oh c'mon...

In Exo.19:9,11 the Lord said he will come down in a thick cloud on mount sinai so that the people may hear His voice. And moses brought the people to the foot of the mountain to meet God and moun sinai was covered in a thick cloud because God had descended upon it. (Exo.19:16-18)

Deut.4:10-12 tells of the same day that moses assembled the people at the foot of the mountain to hear God's words as He speak from the midst of the fire that covered the mount.
(continued)
---jonweckl on 5/1/12


WHAT GOD MEDIATED:

Deuteronomy 4:12 And THE LORD SPAKE unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice YE HEARD THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude, only ye heard a voice. And HE DECLARED unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU to perform, [even] ten commandments, and HE WROTE them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 5:22 These words THE LORD SPAKE unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And HE WROTE them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Notice that Moses ( unlike exodus 19) is not the mediator, God speaks directly to the people and God writes himself
---francis on 5/1/12


The next logical discusion is RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH
---francis on 5/1/12

2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge,

So christ in us, enables us to obey the laws of God. just as promised in the new covenant. that is one avenue of righteousness by faith
---francis on 5/1/12


Francis, do you not know that by following the old covenant, instead of the New Covenant, you bind yourself under the laws and consequences of failing that covenant, which is namely, a curse? The Galatians did this same thing, after receiving salvation through Christ they listened to those old testament Jews outside of Christ and were deceived into thinking that after deliverance through Christ they also still needed to go back and serve the old testament covenant laws, and thereby they all fell from grace going back under the curse that they were deleivered from. You cannot serve the old covenant, and also the New Covenant, for they are enmity one against the other. One is the ministry of death, and the other is the ministry of Life.
---Eloy on 5/1/12




Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

It is with this finger/ spirit of God that he writes his laws in our hearts and minds. The same finger which wrote it originally on tables of stone
---francis on 5/1/12


(Pt.1 of 2) Francis,

You're just going in circles.

1. "see the difference in what God spoke and moses spoke to the people?" Are you belittling Moses authority in speaking to Israel? Isn't Moses a prophet of God and therefore speaks the words that God commanded him to speak?

2. "this is the agreement / covenant mediated by Moses"
You also mentioned that in "Exodus 19 you will see that this is the agreement / covenant mediated by Moses." -- Whatever that covenant mediated by Moses is, as Heb.8 says, Christ is now the mediator of a better covenant which replaced the old covenant.
---jonweckl on 5/1/12


---jonweckl on 5/1/12
The old covenant is an agreement between " all the people" and God. That they would obey " all that the lord say." and in turn God would be their God and bless them. For this covenant to stand, it depends of both God and the people. the people did not do all that God sais. Infact they went after other gods.

Notice that in the new covenant is it all God dependant.

In the old covenant the people said all that God says "WE" will do.

In the new covenant Gods says "I WILL" put my laws in thier hearts and minds

The next logical discusion is RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH
---francis on 5/1/12


jonweckl on 4/30/12
No contradiction.
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them,
God is not the one who broke the covenant they did. SO a new one had to be put in place

Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

This is not talking about the covenant itself, but the laws which gdo gave to Moses, and them moses gave tothe people, In context it refers to the sacrifices

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

see the difference in what God spoke and moses spoke to the people?
---francis on 5/1/12


Francis,
You say that the covenant mentioned in Exo.19 is not the 10Cs. But, in Exo.19:20 "...and the Lord came down upon mount sinai..." and continuing to Exo.20:1 "and God SPAKE ALL THESE WORDS, saying..." verses 3-17 then enumerates the 10Cs, with the law on sabbath being mentioned in verses 8-11.

So the covenant mentioned in Exo.19 (by continuing to Exo.20) shows that it is the 10Cs and that God came down upon the mount and spoke these words/commandments.

This is echoed in Deut.5:4 "...the Lord talked with you face to face in the mount..." and in Deut.4:12-13 "And the Lord spake unto you...and he declared unto you his covenant... even TEN COMMANDMENTS..."
---jonweckl on 5/1/12




Francis, two points i'd like to share:

1st: You're actually contradicting yourself. You're saying now that God will not change his word/covenant. But in your previous reply to my post (also dated 4/30/12) you said "the covenant in Exodus 19 is mediated by Moses and is the covenant which is called the old covenant." --meaning the covenant mentioned in Heb.8 is the covenant mentioned in Exodus 19, the old covenant which was replaced by the new covenant.

So, you say God will not change his covenant, yet you accept that the covenant in Exodus 19 is the old covenant mentioned in Hebrews.
---jonweckl on 4/30/12


--jonweckl on 4/30/12
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. If you read the NT you will find all ten commandments either commanded or observed. While if you read Exodus 19 you will see that this is the agreement / covenant mediated by Moses. Notice that the 10 commandments is not a covenant between two people. It is God's covenant,

---Eloy on 4/30/12
Yes, and the sabbath is a covenant sign that God created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh. Both the rainbow, and the sabbath are covenants given by God based only on God's word.
Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

What we call the old covenant is based partly on man's word ( exodus 19)
---francis on 5/1/12


Francis,
2nd: "Remember ye the law of Moses...which I commanded unto him in Horeb..."(Malachi4:4) "...our God made a covenant with us in Horeb."(Deut.5:2) V.4 says the Lord talked to them face to face in the mount (also mentioned in Deut.4:11-12, Exo.19:20-25 and continues in Exo.20.

What is this covenant that God made with them in Horeb as mentioned in the above scriptures? Deut.4:13 tells it explicitly "...which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments..." To further prove: I mentioned Deut.5:2 earlier, verses 4-22 enumerates the ten commandments (verses 12-14 talks of the sabbath day)
Exo.20 (which continues the "story from Exo.19) also enumerates the ten commandments.
---jonweckl on 5/1/12


Francis, pt.2: "Now if the Priesthood be changed, then of necessity the Law also change be made. For there is truly a disannulling of the Commandment going before, for the weakness and unprofitableness of it. For the Law perfected nothing, but a bringing in of a better hope by which we draw near to God. By so much security, Jesus indeed parent of a better Testament. Then said he, Here I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second." Hebrews 7:12,18,19,22+ 10:9.
---Eloy on 5/1/12


ginger: "Jerry, are you suggesting that because I am not under the law that I don't follow it?"

What then do you mean by "not under the Law"? Do you or do you not keep the Ten Commandments? You claim to follow Christ. He said:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,


---jerry6593 on 5/1/12


Francis, pt.1 of 2: "But if the ministry of death, written engraved in stones, was glorious, which was to be done away: How will not the ministry of the Spirit be rather glorious? And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished. But their minds were blinded: for up to this day remains the same vail untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament, which is done away in Christ. But even up to this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it will turn to the Lord, the vail will be taken away." II Cor.3:7,8+ II Cor.3:13-16.
---Eloy on 4/30/12


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Francis, Let me first see if i understand what you're trying to say:

You are for keeping the observance of the sabbath. In your reply to my post where i mentioned that the old covenant was replaced by a new covenant with Christ as chief priest, are you saying that the covenant mentioned in Exodus 19 is the old covenant? But that this covenant which is called the old covenant IS NOT the ten commandments. Did i get what you're trying to say correctly?
---jonweckl on 4/30/12


Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

God's word and Gods covenant are one and the same. When God gives his word / covenant be sure that he will never cange it nor break it.

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

So why do we think that God would change even one commandments in his word/ covenant?
---francis on 4/30/12


Francis, Yes, the rainbow is the old covenant God gave to Noah. Specifically it is God's sign declaring to the world that he will never again destroy the whole earth and all life in it by a flood of water. And the New Covenant which supercedes this old covenant, is what I call the Covenant of Fire, where God will once again destroy the entire world and everything in it, but this time he will destroy it by fire. This new covenant of promise is seen in: Dn.3:21-30+ II Pt.3:5-14+ Rv.20:15+ 21:1,23+ 22:5.
---Eloy on 4/30/12


---jonweckl on 4/30/12
I stopped there because the post is limited to 125 words, and what I gave was enough to show that this is not the old covenant in question.

It is a covenant, but like the rainbow and the sabbath, it is not the old covenant in question. These covenants are mediated by God himself, where as the covenant in Exodus 19 is mediated by Moses and is the covenant which is called the old covenant.

No one would call the rainbow the old covenant would they?
---francis on 4/30/12


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A-men. All should know that the ten commandments are indeed part of the old covenant. Gods Law: "Love God with all your heart and mind and conscience and might: and love your neighbor as yourself." is written in both the old covenant and is also written in the New Covenant. The old covenant is B.C.(Before Christ), being the Levitical-Mosaic Law delivered by Moses. And the New Covenant is A.D.(Anno Domini), that is in the Annual of the Lord, being the Judaic-Messianic Law delivered by the Messiah Jesus. "Of the Old Testament you have heard, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and a life for a life: but the Lord God gives you a New Law, Love your enemies."
---Eloy on 4/30/12


Francis> "The ten commandmemnts are spoken and written directly by God, not by Moses. It is not the old covenant"

You're right.. the ten commandments were written and spoken by God. "And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words..." (Deut.4:12)

But why did you stop there? Verse13 states: "So he declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten commandments, and He wrote them on two tablets of stone." (Deut.4:13)

So God declared to the nation of Israel His covenant... that is THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.
---jonweckl on 4/30/12


Amen jon!

Jerry, are you suggesting that because I am not under the law that I don't follow it?
I am in Christ, his is in me and I follow what he says.
I follow the Spirit of the law which is Christ not stone tablets which have been nailed to the cross. Perhaps you should read what jon posted, it might do you some good.
I don't need to look at the 10 to know what sin is, I have Christ who shows me that. He is who we follow, not the the 10. Why is it that you don't seem to get that?
---ginger on 4/30/12


---jonweckl on 4/30/12
Notice how Moses is the mediater of this covenant

Exodus 19:3 say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel..if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:..
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
This is the old covenant mediated by Moses

The ten commandmemnts are spoken and written directly by God, not by Moses. It is not the old covenant
---francis on 4/30/12


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Francis,

The law of Moses could not justify anymore (Acts13:39) The priesthood having been changed (to Christ's everlasting priesthood), there was a necessity to change also the law (Heb.7:12). Christ is the mediator of this new and better covenant (Heb.8:6)

This new covenant, is not according to the covenant given to the fathers of the nation of Israel when they were led out of Egypt. (Heb.8:9). The covenant given to them when they were led out of Egypt is the ten commandments, (Deut.4:13) "and he declared unto you his covenant... even ten commandments..."

"In that he saith, a new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.'" (Heb.8,13)
---jonweckl on 4/30/12


Rob: Did you see how easy it was for Francis to quote the exact Fundamental Beliefs #17? The fact that you misquoted it and then refused twice to quote it exactly shows that you were intentionally deceptive from the begining, prefering your hate-filled lies about your Christian brothers to the actual truth. It is apparent that you posted this blog for the sole purpose of providing a forum for your (and your fellow religious bigots) to engage in hate speech. You are upset at Adventists ONLY because we point to the Bible - all of it - and it offends you. It seems that you prefer the word of men, with their twisted version of the Bible to allow you to continue in sin.


---jerry6593 on 4/30/12


Ginger: "Give me one scripture where CHRIST says in the new testament we have to worship the way you say we need to? [?]"

Give me one scripture in the new testament where CHRIST says that only the New Testament is to be followed, or that His Ten Commandment Law is destroyed.

Are you married? If yes, is your husband a Christian? If Yes, is he under the (10C) Law? If no, do you mind his committing adultery? Why not, if he is not under the Law as you proclaim for yourself?


---jerry6593 on 4/30/12


Francis,

The law of Moses, has been changed. (Heb.7:12). The priesthood having been changed to Christ's everlasting priesthood, it was necessary to change the law.

God said He will make a new covenant that is not according to the covenant he made with the fathers of the nation of israel when they were taken out of Egypt. (Heb.8:8-9) The covenant He made when they were taken out of Egypt is also called in the bible as the law of Moses, the ten commandments. (Deut.4:13, Exo.24:12, Deut.4:44-45)

This new covenant, also called a better covenant with Christ as mediator (Heb.8:6) made the first one old and ready to vanish away. (Heb.8:13)
---jonweckl on 4/30/12


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Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Mark 2:27 The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Good Francis, now who was Jesus SPEAKING TO when he said this? Find out and you will have the answer as to if you are right or not.
Just a little hint: Paul rebuked Peter for trying to make gentiles follow what was meant for the jews.
Physical circumcision, physical worship on the sabbath. Sound familiar? Jesus says you cannot live in BOTH. You must live in Him or in the law not BOTH.
---ginger on 4/30/12


Francis: You are missing the point. If we are loving God with all our heart, soul and mind, we are not having any idols, or other Gods, and we will not use His name in vain. We will remember the Sabbath. If we love our neighbor as ourselves, we will honor our parents, not covet our neighbor's stuff, etc.

Jesus sums up the Ten Commandments in the passage in Matthew 22.

You still have explained that verse that Jesus said. Are you challenging Christ's Word?
---Trish on 4/30/12


Please explain what Jesus meant in Matthew 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
---Trish on 4/29/12

To continue, God is love, 1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love.

All his laws are based on Love
You can replace the word based with hang. Love is the foundation of all his laws, and government, and we in turn show love for God when we obey his commandments.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

We are also able to show love to our neighbour when we keep his commandments
1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
---francis on 4/30/12


---Trish on 4/29/12
Lets get to the original text:

Deuteronomy 6:3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it,
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

After Moses had given all the ten commandments of God in Deuternomy 5, He then ends by saying that by keeping all Gods commandments, statues, laws, and ordinances, we show that we love God with all our hearts

remember that love god is the FIRST and GREATEST and the second is like it
---francis on 4/29/12


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Francis: Please explain what Jesus meant in Matthew 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

You are great at pulling verses out of context. I gave you this verse in context, and you went back three chapters and pulled one verse out of context.
---Trish on 4/29/12


---Trish on 4/29/12
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


---ginger on 4/29/12
Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Mark 2:27 The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

never did Jesus say he ws the sabbath. He gave instruction on how to keep the sabbath, and even left us information that we will know that he expected us to keep the sabbath in the future: Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

And in the new earth:

Isaiah 66:22-23 from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---francis on 4/29/12


Francis: If one loves the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind, they are putting no other god before Him. If one loves His neighbor as himself, he will be honoring his mother and father.

That passage quotes the Lord Jesus Christ. How can you question our Lord?

I believe the passage speaks for itself. I also believe it takes a lot of arrogance on your part to question Christ Himself.
---Trish on 4/29/12


Francis,
Give me one scripture where CHRIST says in the new testament we have to worship the way you say we need to?
He doesn't.
See, I don't just have one day where I rest and seek God and thank him. I do it EVERYDAY!!!!
Because I obey what God has said to the gentiles. I went to Christ and he gives me rest everyday.
Nothing was commanded of us in the OT. But the NT was all about us. Get into that. You will find something..the whole truth!
Nothing wrong with the OT cause it points to Christ but if you want to know what Christ will have us do, you got to read the NEW.
---ginger on 4/29/12


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Rob on 4/29/12
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.Fundamental Beliefs, 17

Is this what you read and are having difficulty posting?

What this says ( which you are having difficulty understanding) is that ELlen G white's writings does not conflict with the bible and can be tested against all that is in the bible
---francis on 4/29/12


Trish, your answer to Francis 4/29/12 was quite good.

Unfortunaterly Francis judges righteousness by works of the law so he will discard your answer. Francis is lukewarm as described in Rev 3:16, mixing grace and works. You CAN'T mix grace and works of the law (Rom 11:6), but Francis insists you can.
---Haz27 on 4/29/12


---Trish on 4/29/12
Is that a yes or a no to honouring father and mother and not having any other gods?
---francis on 4/29/12


..the sabbath. Which by the way was a command given to Israel not gentiles.
---ginger on 4/28/12

This is what you were told in order to get you not to obey the commandments of God. The bible says something very diffeent.

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger ( GENTILE), that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people ( ISRAEL):
Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger ( GENTILE), that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,
---francis on 4/29/12


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Okay Jerry, in the 27 Fundamental beliefs of the SDA Church #17, who's words are authorative and to be followed, and who's words are only a standard to be followed?
---Rob on 4/29/12


Francis: Matthew 22 answers your questions about Honoring your father and mother, and Not having any other gods before GOD.

"34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?
37 Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.[b] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.[c] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
---Trish on 4/29/12


Francis said: "if all the laws are nailed to the cross, what do you do with honour thy father and thy mother, or thou shall have no other gods before me?"

Gal 5:14 "all the law is FULFILLED in one word...Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself"

Rom 13,10 "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the FULFILLING of the law".

Israel followed the law but they failed to attain righteousness. Why? Because they sought righteousness "by works of the law" (Rom 9:32), just as Francis is likewise doing.
Francis, you are not submitting to the righteousness of God (Rom 10:3).
---Haz27 on 4/29/12


Rob: "Instead of myself doing it, why don't you"

Not so fast. You are the one making lying accusations. I challenged you to provide the exact quote from which your lying statement originated, but you have refused. Why? You are not interested in truth but in a distortion that fits your prejudices. Again I challenge you to "put up or shut up".


Cluny: "I have attended not one but two public SDA seminars, and have found SDA doctrine to be a tissue of contradictions."

I have noticed that you have difficulty paying attention.


---jerry6593 on 4/29/12


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Ginger, I think you were thinking of Mark 2:28, Jesus is "Lord also of the sabbath".

But Francis condemns himself. Francis has brought himself under the law thus making himself a transgressor/sinner (Gal 2:18). Francis doesn't even keep the sabbath correctly. James 2:10 shows that Francis is guilty of ALL the law.
He refuses to submit to the righteousness of God and if he continues to willfully sin like this, the results are seen in Heb 10:26.

Heb 4 speaks of the "rest" that Christians enter into.
---Haz27 on 4/28/12


Christ says all the law and ordinances was nailed to the cross.
---ginger on 4/28/12
2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment,

Exodus 12:17 the feast of unleavened bread.. an ordinance

Exodus 12:43 the ordinance of the passover

2 Chronicles 35:13 And they roasted the passover with fire according to the ordinance:

Ordinances are procedural protocals, biblically pertaining to the sacrifices of the sanctuary.

The ten commandments are not ordinances

Now if all the laws are nailed to the cross, what do you do with honour thy father and thy mother, or thou shall have no other gods before me?
---francis on 4/28/12


---ginger on 4/28/12
It is very easy to say that francis says that men sin if they do not keep the sabbath. I would rather that you say the bible says that SIN IS THE TRANGRESSION of the law. That way it is God, and not francis who says that it is a sin not to keep the sabbath

Paul is not speaking of the ten commandmnets when he says one man esteem one day alike, he is speaking of the feast day.

There is not one single bible verse which says that Jesus is the sabbath. Not one

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill.

At the same time God also said keep the sabbath
---francis on 4/28/12


Rob, Some people do not like to take the time to read and to study the Bible, so it is easier for them to let somebody else do it, then for themselves to do it. But the problem is if a person does not actually check it out for themself, then how can they be sure that what the speaker is saying is actually the Biblical truth, since they know not the content of the Bible?
---Eloy on 4/28/12


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Francis you say that man is sinning when they do not worship on what you call the sabbath. Which by the way was a command given to Israel not gentiles.

Christ says through Paul that one person esteemeth another day while others don't. Neither is a sin.
No matter what day you worship, it is not sin.
You say it is sin.
Christ says all the law and ordinances was nailed to the cross. Christ says he is our rest.
Sabbath means day of rest.
Look it up.
Besides, others have given you plenty of NT scripture about it.
Yet you keep posting OT scripture. That alone tells me you don't seem to follow what nt says only the ot.
---ginger on 4/28/12


\\Instead of myself doing it, why don't you, Francis, and other SDA's encourage people to CAREFULLY EXAMINE the SDA OFFICIAL WEBSITE, to see what they actually do believe and teach.

Why don't you encourage others to CAREFULLY EXAMINE Ellen Whites prophecies and writings, then follow the example found in Acts 17:11\\

I have attended not one but two public SDA seminars, and have found SDA doctrine to be a tissue of contradictions.

I have read EGW prophecies and found her to be a false prophet.

It's not for nothing that when former SDAs embrace the fullness of the true Orthodox faith, they are received by BAPTISM.

Christ is risen1
---Cluny on 4/28/12


Jerry, I know how we can settle this matter.

Instead of myself doing it, why don't you, Francis, and other SDA's encourage people to CAREFULLY EXAMINE the SDA OFFICIAL WEBSITE, to see what they actually do believe and teach.

Why don't you encourage others to CAREFULLY EXAMINE Ellen Whites prophecies and writings, then follow the example found in Acts 17:11.

It is true I am not SDA, I have never been SDA, and I will never become an SDA.

But it is an OUTRIGHT LIE (breaking one of the TEN COMMANDMENTS) when you and Francis say I did not grow in an SDA home.

I don't know how many books EGW wrote, but I do now for a fact my Mother has more than 20 books in her library which were written by Ellen White.
---Rob on 4/28/12


Jerry, if you noticed I encouraged others to not just believe me, but to go to the Offial SDA website and see what they say concerning THE GREAT CONTROVERSY and THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT.

Jerry, I still encourage people to do this and read what is written for themselves.

But you are against this and trying to divert peoples attention from this, because you don't want people to know the truth.
---Rob on 4/28/12


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Rob: "I got this rot from the Official SDA website."

No you didn't! If you were to give an exact quote (in context) from the official SDA website, it would show that your statement is a distortion of of the truth as presented on the website. Do you actually think that your hatred of SDA's makes you a better Christian or will earn you salvation points? Why don't you study the Scriptures as you propose, and make your arguments from that perspective, rather than descending into religious bigotry?


---jerry6593 on 4/28/12


---ginger on 4/27/12

You will have to show me where christ is our sabbath from the bible

you will have to show me how I am in the old covenant

Just saying something does not make it so.

show me
---francis on 4/28/12



---ginger on 4/27/12
COMPARE AND CONTRAST:
Daniel 7:23 The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth,..Daniel 7:25 and he shall.. think to change times and laws:

WITH

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

What is the most likely source of an attempted change is Gods laws and times: Jesus, His disciples, his church, or the forth beast(ROME)
---francis on 4/28/12


ginger, you are correct about Francis.
He mixes works of the law and grace and that CANNOT be.
"if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work". Rom 11:6

James 3:10,11 also speaks against it.
"Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing (grace) and cursing (judging by law). My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water (grace) and bitter (judging by the law)?"

Rev 3:16 warns the likes of Francis.
"because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."
---Haz27 on 4/27/12


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Jerry, you asked where did I get this rot?

I got this rot from the Official SDA website.

I encourage others to not just believe me, but go to the SDA Official website and see what they say concerning THE GREAT CONTROVERSY and THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT.
---Rob on 4/27/12


Francis,
Get out of the old and into the new. You are not Israel of the ot.
Christ says in the new covenant that HE is our rest.
I believe Christ not something written to the disobedient Israel. That is who those commands were given to.
See, you do try to mix the old with the new, Francis, and Christ says that it just won't work.
---ginger on 4/27/12


Francis, do you realize the reason there is a sabbath in Heaven is because the one who IS our sabbath will be with us?---ginger on 4/27/12


Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

We come before Him every sabbath and new Moon to worship. He is not our sabbath. He is not our new moon either
---francis on 4/27/12


Francis, do you realize the reason there is a sabbath in Heaven is because the one who IS our sabbath will be with us?
Yep He sure will, his name is Christ.
Sabbath means "day of rest"
Christ says "come to me... and I will give you REST!
The day you worship on has nothing to do with the sabbath. The sabbath has to do with "REST". Christ and he finished it, he said so.
He has given us REST
---ginger on 4/27/12


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As for the sabbath, I don't think Francis realizes that Christ IS our sabbath. He's our day of rest. Christ says he is this.---ginger on 4/27/12

I want you to think about this:

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

If Christ is our sabbath today, why is there both the sabbath and christ in the new jeavens and new earth?

Also have you noticed that the bible says Christ is our passover, but never says he is our sabbath?
---francis on 4/27/12


---Rob on 4/26/12
1: Can't post whole chapter 125 word limit

2: Not against people doing any research on SDA. When you research something you study the thing not what people say about the thing.
What you are researching is not what SDA teach, but what people say SDA teach. BIG difference

3: Francis did not say keep the sabbath, God did Exodus 20:8 and also allowed for works of love to be done on the sabbath Included in this care for hospitalized patients

4: The BIBLE teaches that THE ANGEL OF THE LORD is God

5: Christ work did not finish on the cross. He did not send the holy ghost while on the cross, he did not cleanse the samctuary while on the cross, and he TODAY continues to WORK on our behalf.
---francis on 4/27/12


Rob: "Why do SDA?s teach Christ did not finish His Work on the cross, but resumed doing His work in 1844?...etc."

Where do you get this rot? You indict yourself when you say to search the Scriptures for truth, and then question why SDA's keep the Sabbath. Because the Bible commands it - that's why!


---jerry6593 on 4/27/12


Rob, I can't answer some questions because I don't know anything about SDA except for what Francis posts.

As for the sabbath, I don't think Francis realizes that Christ IS our sabbath. He's our day of rest. Christ says he is this.
That's why Paul taught in Romans 14 about the days and what we eat, etc. To take not offense, one esteems a day over another, one can eat but the other feels condemned if they eat.
Paul is teaching its not about these things but about Christ. BUT, if we who don't feel condemned and do them in front of one who feels condemned, we cause them to stumble. Same for what Francis says about the sabbath, he doesn't realize that he causes stumbling by condemning those who don't worship on sabbath as he does.
---ginger on 4/27/12


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Why does Francis say a person must keep the Sabbath

Jesus did after feeding the 5,000. If he just wanted to get away from the crowds he would have gone with disciples but he went away for some alone time with Daddy.
---Scott1 on 4/27/12


Why does Francis say a person must keep the Sabbath, yet ....

Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath...Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

yikes!
---aka on 4/26/12


Ginger, you have made some post on these blogs which I totally agree with.

I have a few questions for you.

Why did Francis only share what is written in 2 Timothy 2:2, and not the whole Chapter?

Why is Francis so against people researching what SDA's really teach and believe, and only want people to use the Official SDA website?

Why does Francis say a person must keep the Sabbath, yet SDA's have people working at their institutions on the Sabbath?

Why does Francis and other SDA's teach Jesus was the Archangel Michael, and they reject what is written in Hebrews 1:1-5?

Why do SDA?s teach Christ did not finish His Work on the cross, but resumed doing His work in 1844?
---Rob on 4/26/12


Rob is correct, many sit under the teachings of others trusting whatever they preach without checking scriptures to confirm if it's true.

Most of us would have been guilty of this at some time, or even still. It's human nature unfortunately, and we see it in many different areas in life (not just regarding the Bible). If something is too hard for us to understand and we don't have enough time and/or interest to study it, we resort to the easier path of placing trust in so-called "experts".

Unfortunately this can get us into trouble when the blind lead the blind.
---Haz27 on 4/26/12


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Hi Rob,

1. Like Francis said it is biblical

2. Like M.E.W said, they don't want to be responisible and think that when they get in front of God, they can point the finger at the teacher and blame them instead of accepting responsibility for themselves.

The Bible says for us to search the scriptures and to test the spirit from which teaching comes from. if it does not line up with the word of God, it is false.
---ginger on 4/26/12


Elijah and Elisha both has students called " the sons of the prophets."

Jesus taught his disciples

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

So who then said it is wrong to sit under teachers and study with them?
---francis on 4/26/12


All of the pastors I have ever had have challenged the congregations to study for ourselves to be sure we are hearing the Truth being preached. They have always welcomed discussion and questions.
---Trish on 4/26/12


Why is it people will sit under the TEACHING/PREACHING of others, and believe everything they see and hear?
---Rob on 4/26/12

BECAUSE IT IS BIBLICAL to " sit under a preacher or teacher."
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

John 21:16 He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
---francis on 4/26/12


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1) Because it is easy. In a nation like U.S. with unlimited access to the Bible (book, phone, internet, etc) and resources (Crossway, LifeWay, authors, etc) we get used to the Bible and do not honor it for what it is. Pastor said it this way "Fireworks are cool until you work at a firework stand everyday", we can do the same with God in our holy huddles. The Bible becomes common place and we do not advance in our spiritual walk and disiplines. President Reagon said it this way, "One generation accepts, next follows, next assumes, next falters"

2) People make excuses. "That would require sacrifice and personal responsiblity and I am too busy".
---Scott1 on 4/26/12


Psychologically, people do not like taking (being accountable) responsibility for their own actions/words, so they 'cop out' and enjoy having 'LEADERS' (masters) and 'superiors' be responsible instead.

They have now become a "FOLLOWER" type of person (weak willed, "follow the Pied Piper").

The Lord does not want a "FOLLOWER TYPE OF PERSON" (not even for HIMSELF), The Lord wants us to be a MEMBER OF "the Way".

Before Paul was Paul, he was SAUL who persecuted the devotees of Jesus.

Acts 9:2 "so that if he found any....BELONGING TO the Way....".

People want "teaching/preaching" so they can be a "follower" instead of "be responsible".
---more_excellent_way on 4/26/12


Rob, Your 2nd paragraph is my criteria, not a cookie-cut-Christian!
---1st_cliff on 4/26/12


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