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Love Versus Salvation

Last night on TV I heard a famous preacher say that God loves us unconditionally, and that we should love God unconditionally and one another unconditionally. But isn't God's love for us based on our acceptance of Jesus as Saviour?

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 ---Geraldine on 4/30/12
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strongax, repent and get saved, then after you are a born-again Christian, then you can be qualified to talk of accountability, but until then you are not.
---Eloy on 5/14/12


Eloy:

Saints must be accountable. If a saint does something wrong, it is right for other saints to call him to task. If a sinner sees the problem, it's even MORE important that it be addressed - because it brings reproach not only on the saint, but on the whole body of Christ, and any claim that the saint is not accountable to the sinner merely raises the spectre of self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

Paul addressed this very issue when he wrote about one man who was living with his mother-in-law (1 Corinthians 5).

If someone claims to be righteous, and even unbelievers can plainly see he isn't, it shows him as a deluded fool and/or a hypocrite, and the same goes for anyone else who agrees with him.
---StrongAxe on 5/14/12


Eloy, just to get back at those who try to correct you, you again claim you are divine. You said,

"When the sinner repents from their sin and becomes a member of my body then there is fellowship.."

Again you claim to be Divine, when you say, those who convert to Christ, become a part of your body. You are so confused.
All believers are a part of the Body of Christ, not your body. You are not Christ.
---Mark_V. on 5/14/12


sinners do not, nor cannot, keep saints accountable, for the sinner's life has yet to be converted and is totally separated from the saint's life. When the sinner repents from their sin and becomes a member of my body then there is fellowship, and until then, birds of a feather will flock together: sinners with the sinners, and saints with the saints.
---Eloy on 5/13/12


I just try to keep Eloy (and everyone else, including myself) accountable to the same standards the Bible itself demands - corroborating all truth with 2-3 witnesses (i.e. corroboration), refraining from speaking in tongues publicly without an interpreter, etc.

It's just that Eloy seems to need to be corrected on such matters the most, because he constantly makes claims, INSISTING he is right and his claims are "proven" correct and he is a "proven" saint, etc. - but declining to show such proof when asked. On the rare occasions he DOES show proof (e.g. how Henoch wrote the Pentateuch, the exact day and hour of creation, etc.), such proofs are usually convoluted logic rather specific witnesses.
---StrongAxe on 5/13/12




Eloy, and everyone who may think different needs, to know that we, as a group, are not attacking Eloy personally.
My/our purpose is to warn those who are new in Christ or seeking Christ to not trust Eloy's statements. It is for their good and spiritual benifit.
I want those people and others to know that God does not behave as Eloy thinks and says. God is guided by His own Written Word. Eloy is led by some other spirit and even he needs to realize that.
---Elder on 5/11/12


Elder, you are so right in what you say concerning Eloy. I try not to condemn him but to expose what he says as false doctrine. I thought as many that he had changed when he gave his story about his job, and how he was asking forgiveness. But nothing really had change. It was just another one of his ploys to get people to believe what he says. People like him are a danger to those who are not prepared with the truth, similar to those people with Jim Jones and others who are captivated by his words. He does proclaim to be God, the light Jesus saw on while on the Cross. Very disturbing.
---Mark_V. on 5/11/12


elder, in my vivid imagination here is what I see....eloy sitting in a chair sort of like he thinks he's a king and trying to dictate what everyone should believe. since he is writing his on bible, we know what he does is not biblical. I have sympathy for him, yet he is anti christ. when he tells everyone not to address him until they accept "his" truth, automatically that puts him above everyone else...or so he thinks. God help him is my prayer.He has surely made a fool out of himself here on christianet. I would run and hide my face if I were him but watch...he will come back at me with something stupid.
---shira4368 on 5/11/12


shira4368, someone needs to expose Eloy. I am tired of the condemning remarks that he directs towards anyone who corrects his mis-statements and Scripture errors.
I feel that sometimes he acts like he is drunk when he posts and it sounds like a demonic influence making statements.
---Elder on 5/10/12


Eloy:

You accuse people without basis. When I point out your error (by pointing out specifics of what the Bihle ACTUALLY SAYS), you say "whenever you are ready to receive the truth, address me", implying that I am not interested in the truth.

By pushing your own opinions and ignoring plainly quoted scripture, it is YOU who are plainly demonstrated just how you view the truth. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

Jesus called us to bear spiritual fruit, NOT to be fruit inspectors, which, unfortunately, you seem to have made your full-time calling.
---StrongAxe on 5/10/12




Eloy, if I had not already received the Truth I sure wouldn't look to you for any. You don't have it. 90% or better of your comments are disgraceful, misleading and/or unscriptual.
I have been on CN for well over a decade. I was here long before you came. I remember you posting as Eloy and then answering yourself as Curt to promote your false doctrine and lies. We have all seen your demonic answers to simple Bible questions. We read your false "forgive me" statement and then watched as you continued on in your ungodly ways. You were right in a way. The sea of truth is so big and your boat is small and it is leaking.
Still love ya though and I am praying for you.
---Elder on 5/10/12


elder, eloy just goes on and on and on and no one listens to him. No one wants to address him. He should be embarrassed by his pompas attitude. Seeing this is a first for me. truly one of a kind.
---shira4368 on 5/10/12


elder, whenever you are ready to receive the truth, address me.
---Eloy on 5/10/12


strongax, whenever you are ready to receive the truth, address me.
---Eloy on 5/10/12


Strongaxe, of course all descendants of Adam are sinners. Even the elect are born under sin. So while "we" (believers) were yet sinners Christ died for "Us." Love is the motive of all God's goodness and grace toward His children. He has for them an "everlasting love" (Jer. 31:3) It was in "love" that He predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself" (Eph. 1:5). Proof of this is, that, from all eternity He, "accepted us in (Not "in Christ) the "Beloved" (Eph.1:6). Note carefully that this declaration is given before reference is made to the forgiveness of our sins in (v.7).
---Mark_V. on 5/10/12


Eloy, as you can see by Strong-ax and his responce your false accusing un-Christ like attitude is revealed to more than just a few people.
Why don't you get back to basics and serve the people and the Lord with truth as you have the ability to do?
Why do you continue mislead, distort the truth and accuse people as if you are God Himself? I am not the only one who has asked or wonders about your answer to this question.
So, now, give us an honest answer or falsely defend your behavior once again.
---Elder on 5/10/12


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Eloy:

In the Bible, blasphemy is only ever used against two things:
1) God, or
2) The King.
It never refers to other individuals, and you are neither God nor King.

In the second instance, it only happened once, the king in question was the corrupt king Ahab, and the accusation of "blasphemy against the king" were a fraud conclcted by his wife Jezebel used to murder the innocent Naboth and steal his land (1 Kings 21).
---StrongAxe on 5/9/12


"elder, as normal you continue to post falsehood and blaspheme."
Eloy
eloy, as normal you lie, distort the Scripture and try to mislead people.
When someone disagrees with you and points out your falsehoods you try to act as if you are God and say they blaspheme or are lost. This is not the first time you have done this either. This is just what you do and know.
So, what do you call what you do?
---Elder on 5/9/12


elder, as normal you continue to post falsehood and blaspheme.
---Eloy on 5/9/12


Yes Geraldine, you're right. God sent his only Son into the world in order to rescue all those whom embrace him. But not all desire God for their life. For example, there are times when I am sharing the gospel with an unsaved soul, and they have said, "You know what you can do with your Jesus? Take your Jesus and your God, and shove it where the sun don't shine!" These antiGod and antiChrist souls are totally condemned unless they repent and get right with God. For no one will spit in the Lord's face and sit as his supper table also, you will not crucify him and embrace him also: each soul is either for, or else against God. And according to our choice determines our eternal fate, being, heaven or hell.
---Eloy on 5/9/12


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Oh Cluny..... Wake Up!
---jerry6593 on 5/9/12


Eloy:

God COULD have given us his new covenent just like the old. The one thing that was necessarily unique about Jesus was that it was necessary for him to die, in order to take upon himself the sins of the world (so he had to first be born).

He died for us who were yet sinners, before we had any idea of repenting. He did not die for the righteous (as it would not be necessary to die for the righteous).



Mark_V.:

Before Christ died for us, we sinners were no different from any other sinners. Even if God chose "us" from the foundation of the world, "we" were not born sinless and did not live our lives sinlessly - otherwise, there would have been no need for Jesus to die us.
---StrongAxe on 5/8/12


Eloy as normal you misuse Scripture. Now take time to learn something.
II Cor 5:10 is written to Christians. There are no lost people who will stand this judgment. Read the entire chapter and then the entire book.
Paul was writting to believers here. This is the Bema judgment for Christians not the Great White throne judgment for lost sinners. This passage is about receiving or loosing rewards not salvation.
Look at 5:5 and you should be able to see that only Christians have the earnest/downpayment of His Spirit. Paul is speaking to Christians here!
---Elder on 5/8/12


Craig, the plan of God is complete before Him, yet it's unfolding before our eyes through time. Nothing He ordained will change. God could stop sin if He so chose to do so. But He allows it to continue until the time He ordained it to stop. All with one purpose to an end. God could have stopped Adam from sinning. He could have prevented the division between the two children but didn't (Gen. 3:15). He could have prevented the destruction of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, Jebusites but commanded Israel to destroy them in (Deut. 20:16-17). All with a purpose to an end. He permitted the death of His Son. He is God and there is no other. He permitted the angel of death to killed thousands, until God said "Stop."
---Mark_V. on 5/8/12


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Strongaxe, you said,
"Then how do you explain the fact that God loved us while we were yet sinners?"
Here, "while "we" (speaking of believers) were yet sinners. The "we" are the elect, chosen before the foundation of the world. Those spoken of in (Eph. 1:4)
Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love" The others are the children of wrath.
"For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9). These statment would be pointless if God has not "appointed" any to wrath. Two different children.
---Mark_V. on 5/8/12


strongax, Jesus came to give us his New Covenant, which is NOT to save the unrepentant. God's Commandment to obey the Commandments from the Lord God Jesus stands, and therefore are the two separate abodes: one for the righteous, and the other for the condemned. Unconditional? never was, never is, and never shall be. You obey God, else be condemned, that is the condition it always has been since the beginning. Before Christ there were the righteous and the wicked, and after Christ also there are the righteous and the wicked, and we know them by their fruits. "For we must all appear in front of the Judgment throne of Christ, that every one will receive the things in body, according to what we have done, whether good or bad." II Cor.5:10.
---Eloy on 5/7/12


Eloy:

So tell us, why did God send Jesus in the first place?

Before Jesus came, there were people who were sinners. There was nobody there to tell them otherwise, so they were unrepentant. They didn't repent until AFTER Jesus came to them. Which means God sent Jesus to this earth DECADES before he died for any repentent sinners, and DECADES before they were in any position to repent.

In fact, God had this PLANNED for much longer, so he planned on sending his son to save unrepentent sinners MILLENIA before they eventually repented.
---StrongAxe on 5/7/12


strongax, Romans 5:8 is acurrately translated that Christ was numbered with the transgressors, NOT that Christ was dying for unrepentant transgressors. lit.Gk: "because the love of God has been poured out in these hearts of us by his Holy Spirit given to us. According to chronicle above, yet Christ without respect died for us being weak. For hardly for a just one somebody will die, for on behalf of the good perhaps somebody yet dares to die, but God which introduced of his love toward us, because besides being of the offenders, of us Christ for us died." Rm.5:5-8.
---Eloy on 5/7/12


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Strong Axe is right. God loved us while we were yet sinners.
---Catholicus on 5/7/12


Eloy:

Then how do you explain the fact that God loved us while we were yet sinners? Every time you address this issue, you seem to ignore that part. Remember, those are not my words, but Jesus's very own words.
---StrongAxe on 5/7/12


Geraldine, NonChristian liars and deluded sinners believe and profess the satanic lie that God loves everybody, even the wicked sinners, because these lost souls love the lie of escaping accountability and responsibility for their sins. Let us see exactly what God himself says about sinners: "And together will be the destruction of the transgressors and the sinners, and consumed they that forsake Yhwh. Note, the day of Yhwh comes, cruel both with wrath, and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he will destroy the sinners thereof out of it. All the sinners among my people will die by the sword, which say, The evil will not overtake nor confront us." Is.1:28+ 13:9+ Am.9:10.
---Eloy on 5/7/12


He does not treat everyone the same, if you cannot see that with your spiritual eyes then you are blind to spiritual Truth--MarkV

Only children base Gods love for a person on the conditions that person currently lives in.

Would you also determine Gods love for a person based on whether or not He allows them to be raped and murdered. I mean He didnt love them to STOP the incident did He!? And then He turns around and offers the offender forgiveness of their sins and give them a new heart. All the while the victims family is churning in their own bitterness and following a god of their own making who is just as bitter and resentful as they themselves are.

What a horrible reality that would be.
---CraigA on 5/7/12


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Geraldine, when we see the word hate used in dealing with God's attitude towards sinners or saints in sin we must understand the word used. The word used means preferred or the such. The Bible says God is Love, so how could He hate? God did not "prefer" Esau because of his sin yet He still loved him.
Contrary to Eloy's falsehoods we are not Saved by works. If so he would be lost forever. His brand of Christianity is marred at best and false at worst. Click on his name and you will get the opinion of the forum family on his false teaching... zero help!!
---Elder on 5/7/12


false doctrine says God loves all: but true doctrine says: I judge righteous judgment, and all the wicked are under my wrath says the Lord. I hate them with perfect hatred, says the Lord, think not that I love the wicked, for I have prepared a lake of fire and brimstone for all them I hate, and not love, says the Lord. Fill full your cup of woe, for as you have given it will again be given onto you, full measure into your own bosom says the Lord. In utter darkness there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The smoke of your torment will go up forever and ever: and your fire will not be quenched and your worm will never die, says the Lord.
---Eloy on 5/7/12


God says, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." God commands,"You will love the Lord your God with all your heart, life, conscience, and might." And, "All their wickedness in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes rebellious. And the King will separate the sheep on his right hand from the goats on the left. Then will he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me all you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. And these will go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
---Eloy on 5/7/12


Eloy:

1 John 4:10
"Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

This is unconditional love. There would be no need for propitiation for sin, if we were not sinners. God loved us while we were yet sinners. He did not love us because we deserved it or had already earned it.
---StrongAxe on 5/6/12


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//God does. He does not treat everyone the same//
Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Apparently Peter thought God was a respecter of persons, and Mark still does.
---michaei_e on 5/6/12


Geraldine, "unconditional" love is not Biblical, and comes from the pit. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked, each soul is rewarded according to their works. God is just, and he indeed loves the righteous and has prepared a heaven for them, and he also hates the wicked and there is an everlasting hell fire awaiting for them.
---Eloy on 5/6/12


Linda, I don't make the rules God does. He does not treat everyone the same, if you cannot see that with your spiritual eyes then you are blind to spiritual Truth.
Jesus said "And If I tell you the truth why do you not believe Me?" The unbelief of the Jews toward Jesus demonstrated that God was not their Father spiritually. Then answers the question He put to them,
"He who is of God hears God's words, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God" (John 8:46,47). If God love them all the same, they would be able to hear God's words. But God did not treat them the same. He treated them differently. It was His right. "God has to give them spiritual ears so that they can hear God."
---Mark_V. on 5/6/12


Cluny: Are you there?



---jerry6593 on 5/6/12


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Mark V "since we don't have the mind of God"--this is what I wrestle with, too much. I want to know it ALL, right now, and I know in my deepest self that I need to "trust Holy mystery," and be thankful for what God does tell us in his Word.
---Geraldine on 5/3/12


Exactly Geraldine! When people pursue mysteries that God doesn't want them to know yet, they are no longer living by faith, but by their own understanding. That is something spoken against in scripture. Theres a reason for it. It leads to deception!
---LindaH on 5/4/12


Cluny:

"Well, jerry, this is what was said in the SDA Revelation Seminar"

I have straightened you out several times on this point, and have given you corroborating scriptures, and now you try to convince me with this hearsay evidence? Give the exact quote (in context) from this "beige covered" book, and maybe we can go from there. Why are you not able to argue your point from Scripture alone? I am.


---jerry6593 on 5/4/12


Geraldine, no person can know all the reasons God does certain things. I read it, and I believe it, even when I don't understand it all. We will never understand it all. I know from His Word that not all people are treated the same. I don't know why, but know its true. His infinite and knows all things, we are finite. His written it, given it to us, and has even told us how it will end. Nothing can change that. No actions of man will change what He ordain to be. Life itself is held by His power.
The most important thing for every believer is to depend upon God now that they are saved, and what do they do? They depend on the free will of man. Who did we depend on before we were saved? In ourselves. So what has changed for them? nothing.
---Mark_V. on 5/4/12


Geraldine: God does love us unconditionally - but He cannot let us in Heaven with sin - because that would ruin all of the good of Heaven

So God must send people to hell, even though He does not like that, because the alternative, of letting sin in Heaven, would ruin heaven

At least that is how I understand it - maybe I'm wrong
---Peter on 5/3/12


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---Cluny on 5/2/12
It is your understanding of the bible which is at fault here

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned..making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly,

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha..are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The bible says that Sodom and Gomorrha are an example of what will happen to the ungodly. The fire of Sodom and Gomorrha is called ETERNAL FIRE. The fire has gone out years ago, but the results, the destruction of the city and wicked is eternal.

This is an example of what will happen to the wicked when God returns: they will be destroyed forever, they will be lost forever.
---francis on 5/3/12


\\Cluny:

What does the Orthodox church teach about Daniel 12:2, John 5:28, Revelation 20:13,15 etc.?\\

We teach the entire Bible as a whole, not verses ripped out of their context as does the SDA.

**Cluny: "The SDA says the wicked will be burned up alive to a crisp on earth. This will last only until the last one is burnt up."

Again, you show your ignorance of scripture. **

Well, jerry, this is what was said in the SDA Revelation Seminar--the one with the beige cover to put each night's lesson.

Maybe the people who wrote this and the SDA pastor who taught it were ignorant of Scripture, but it didn't take me too long to figure that out.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/3/12


The reasons behind some being born poor are not give in Scripture. To speculate is bring our own opinions and feelings--MarkV

But when you claim it is because God doesnt love everyone the same you are doing that very thing... speculating according to your own feelings. Why not just accept what God says even though at this moment it doesnt seem to make sense? That is faith
---LindaH on 5/3/12


Mark V "since we don't have the mind of God"--this is what I wrestle with, too much. I want to know it ALL, right now, and I know in my deepest self that I need to "trust Holy mystery," and be thankful for what God does tell us in his Word.
---Geraldine on 5/3/12


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Cluny:

What does the Orthodox church teach about Daniel 12:2, John 5:28, Revelation 20:13,15 etc.?



Geraldine:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Note the progression here:
1) God loved the world
2) He gave his son
3) People believed in his son

Note that 1) must necessarily have come before 3) - God loved BEFORE people believed.


Daniel 12:2
"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
---StrongAxe on 5/3/12


Cluny: "The SDA says the wicked will be burned up alive to a crisp on earth. This will last only until the last one is burnt up."

Again, you show your ignorance of scripture.

Mal 4:1,3 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. ... Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Gehenna (the perpetually burning trash dump outside Jerusalem) was merely a metaphor for the final lake of fire.

---jerry6593 on 5/3/12


Linda, I have no clue why you are trying to give me a lesson about life. I answered the question with the truth. I didn't give a reason why they are born the way they are, but do know they are not treated the same. The reasons behind some being born poor are not give in Scripture. To speculate is bring our own opinions and feelings. Since God is righteous, everything His done is righteous, and has a purpose and reason why some are given while others are not. All is in His Sovereign control. And since we don't have the mind of God, we don't know how all the intrinsics come together. Life itself is a gift of God. Whatever purpose He has, it will all come together in the end, the way He ordained it to be. For He is God and there is no other.
---Mark_V. on 5/3/12


Did it ever occur to you Mark that the reason some are born less fortunate is so that those of us who have the love of Christ in us can show them Gods love. What a pity you dont see that as the same as God loving them.

Who is happier: the one who has nothing and is given everything OR
the one who has everything and receives nothing

Who is more thankful: A man born with his sight OR a man born blind who is later given sight?

Its OUR job to show Gods love. Not just sit back with the beautiful Spirit that He gave us and brag about it, doing nothing to show the broken and less fortunate Gods TRUE love in Jesus.
---LindaH on 5/2/12


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\\what did the verses I posted say, abnd what do SDA say? Tell us the difference\\

The SDA says the wicked will be burned up alive to a crisp on earth. This will last only until the last one is burnt up.

The Bible says the wicked will be lost eternally in gehenna.

Two different things.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/2/12


francis, I was not asking what the Bible says.

I'm asking what the SDA says, which are NOT the same things.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/2/12
REALLY?
what did the verses I posted say, abnd what do SDA say? Tell us the difference
---francis on 5/2/12


\\what problems do tou have with the verses I posted?
---francis on 5/2/12\\

francis, I was not asking what the Bible says.

I'm asking what the SDA says, which are NOT the same things.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/2/12


In other word, jerry, you are saying that the SDA teaches that God resurrects the unsaved only to burn them up alive.

Thank you. You've answered by question.

Christ is risen.
---Cluny on 5/2/12
what problems do tou have with the verses I posted?
---francis on 5/2/12


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Mark V, let us hope that those born to depravity, and with God's help overcome it, will receive a special reward when judged.
---Geraldine on 5/2/12


\\Does He do it "simply to burn them alive"? NO! You left out the most important part - the judgement, and the confession of Jesus before final death in the lake of fire.\\

In other word, jerry, you are saying that the SDA teaches that God resurrects the unsaved only to burn them up alive.

Thank you. You've answered by question.

Christ is risen.
---Cluny on 5/2/12


Geraldine, God loves the creation He created. He does not love every single person the same. The proof is in life. God does not give the same or equal favors upon all people. Men in this world find themselves unequally favored. One child is born to health, honor, wealth, with good and wise parents who train him up from infancy in the nuture and admonition of the Lord, and afford him every opportunity of being taught the Truth, while another is born to disease, shame, poverty, of dissipated and depraved parents who reject and riducule and dispise Christianity, who take care to prevent their child from coming under the influence of the Gospel. Some are happy while others are miserable. No Geraldine, not everyone is loved the same.
---Mark_V. on 5/2/12


Cluny: "Does the SDA believe that God will resurrect the unsaved after the millennium simply to burn them up alive on earth and kill them again"

Francis gave you Scripture to answer your questions, but apparently, that was not enough.

Does God resurrect the wicked after the millenium? YES!

Does He do it "simply to burn them alive"? NO! You left out the most important part - the judgement, and the confession of Jesus before final death in the lake of fire.

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Do you understand now, Yes or No?


---jerry6593 on 5/2/12


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Geraldine, The Apostle John states: 1st John4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
The reason we love him is because he loved us first. The reason we accept him as our personal Saviour is because he first loved us. The reason we want to follow him is because he first loved us. etc.
The prophet Jeremiah under inspiration of the Holy Ghost states:
Jer31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Geraldine, let me ask you a question. When does everlasting start and when does everlasting stop?
It started before we accepted him and it never ends.
Lord bless you dear child of God. I hope this helps.
---trey on 5/2/12


---Cluny on 5/1/12
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

YES
---francis on 5/2/12


francis, please answer the question I asked. I will rephrase it so all you have to do is answer "yes" or "no."

Does the SDA believe that God will resurrect the unsaved after the millennium simply to burn them up alive on earth and kill them again, rather than letting them remain dead?

Yes or no, please.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


---Cluny on 5/1/12
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
---francis on 5/1/12


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\\So again SDA is 100% correct
---francis on 5/1/12
\\

So, the SDA believes in a god who resurrects wicked people only to burn them alive, right?

Please answer yes or no.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


geraldine,God judges us after death,either we accept jesus and live as he told us or we choose to follow satan,and scripture tells us that God wants all to be saved,thats because he loves all of us,and while we were yet sinners ,as scripture tell us he sent his son to die in our place,we choose were we end up,by either accepting jesus or rejecting him.
---tom2 on 5/1/12


SDA doctrine, according to the Revelation Seminars I attended, says that hell does not exist yet.
---Cluny on 5/1/12
By hell in this context we are talking about the lake of fire, and not the grave.

If we are talking about the lake of fire then it surely does not yet exist
Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

If we are talking about the grave, then there is no grave for the devil and his angels

So again SDA is 100% correct
---francis on 5/1/12


\\hell was created for the devil and his angels

Some people just choose to join the devil and his angels
---francis on 5/1/12\\

SDA doctrine, according to the Revelation Seminars I attended, says that hell does not exist yet.

It will be on earth, when God resurrects the wicked after the millennium for no other reason than to burn them alive. Satan and his minions--spiritual beings--will be burned up, too.

The RS also taught that the saved will return from heaven and walk on the ashes. Just how spiritual beings (Satan et al) are burned to physical ashes is never clarified, nor was I told how the ashes were cleaned up later, or by whom.


Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


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Then do we conclude, if God loves ALL, he created hell for some of those he loves?
---Geraldine on 5/1/12
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


hell was created for the devil and his angels

Some people just choose to join the devil and his angels
---francis on 5/1/12


Then do we conclude, if God loves ALL, he created hell for some of those he loves?
---Geraldine on 5/1/12


Garaldine, you said,

" But isn't God's love for us based on our acceptance of Jesus as Saviour?"

You have it backwards. Our acceptance is based on His love.
"But God who is rich in mercy, "because of His great love with which He loved us" even when we were dead in trespasses, "made us alive together with Christ" ( by grace you have been saved).

God does love us unconditionally, the "elect" the "Church" His beloved. True Christians do love Him unconditionally.
We should love one another unconditionally, but many times we don't.
---Mark_V. on 5/1/12


"But isn't God's love for us based on our acceptance of Jesus as Saviour?" No.
"Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
---francis on 4/30/12"
Amen.
---joseph on 5/1/12


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please read john 3-16,and understand as humans we can love someone and not like what they do.and we forgive them just as God does when we accept his son.
---tom2 on 4/30/12


Nope.

God's unconditional love for the world is why He sent His only-begotten Son to start with. John 3:16.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/30/12
AMEN


Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
---francis on 4/30/12


Nope.

God's unconditional love for the world is why He sent His only-begotten Son to start with. John 3:16.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/30/12


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