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Are There Fake Christians

In Romans 10:2 The Apostle Paul speaking of the Jews said that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Do you believe that in these modern times many who call themselves Christians are the just like those Jews?

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 ---trey on 4/30/12
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Trey, there is much false doctrine today. Carnal flesh refuses to repent. We are given the commnd to be holy, and to take up our cross and follow after God, then he will be our Father and we his child. But the sinner is deceived with great delusion, thinking "God loves me no matter what". But God never said that, and he did not make the lake of fire and brimstone in vain. He commands all flesh everywhere to repent and so be saved: God never said, Come follow me, and bring your sins too. No, God forbid. For unless the catepillar sheds its cocoon it cannot fly. Yes, too many souls are staying in their cocoons rather than shedding their sins to be changed into all the goodness that God desires for them.
---Eloy on 5/18/12


ginger, you said something that is so wrong about me. you said referring to me,

"A scribe or pharisee in todays terms would be someone who says they are saved and looks down their nose at the "sinners"

I don't look down on sinners, for I am a sinner myself saved by grace. I might look down on child murderers, molesters and rapist. For another child was taken by another man here in Gilroy. I do pray they catch him, and give him the chair as the law allows, and pray they find the girl alive. I pray for her salvation and pray for her parents, and not sorry I don't pray for the molester. I do look down on them for I am a father myself.
---Mark_V. on 5/18/12


Ginger, GREAT NEWS!!!

Genesis 8: And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged,

----
21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour, and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake, .....

The new cleansed ""earth"" after the flood was not CURSED!!

Does that mean man is not then cursed either, since they believe it is one and the same??
---kathr4453 on 5/18/12


Trish, thank you very much for the correction. Peace be with you always.

Chris, thank you also very much. I have to stand for the Truth, no matter the cost. God has it all under His control even when we see things so very wrong. Nothing escapes His sight, "Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: But all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do" (Heb. 4:13). For,
"A man's heart deviseth his way: But the Lord directeth his steps" (Prov. 16:9).
---Mark_V. on 5/18/12


Thanks Kathr,
If I am labelled crazy, that is fine.
If God changed us first, then why does he require a broken and contrite heart FIRST?
Calling on Christ is because of the conviction of the Holy Spirit. THe Spirit sees that broken heart and when we call on Christ THEN he comes in and changes us from the inside out.
God does not require we change BEFORE we come to him. In fact, we can't change BEFORE coming to him or else it is us doing the work and not God. How would God get glory out of that?

And yes, I thank God for the prison ministries because he has changed many murderers and rapists, etc.
If MarkV thiinks he won't see them in heaven, he better think again. Paul is gonna be there and he was certainly a murderer.
---ginger on 5/18/12




Yep,

LDS, JWs, Unitarians...
---Marc on 5/18/12


We are told no-one with sin shall enter heaven.

We are also told that any who come to the Lord and genuinely repent will be forgiven and cleansed.

There is hope for everyone.

God so loved the world he gave his only son. That our sins may be forgiven.

Blessings to all
Be gentle with each other.
---chris on 5/17/12


I think the core of the problem here is that MarkV doesnt understand what we mean by "free will". The proof of it lies in statements that he has made in the past that "man has God-given power to make choices but no free will".

I had my suspicions that English wasnt his first language because of his grammatical errors and struggles with understanding certain words.

The CHOICE we make is to call upon Jesus Christ. He is the one who saves us from the penalty of sin and changes our hearts with his Spirit. That is why we call upon him.

It doesnt take a good heart to understand our need to do that. Just humility
---CraigA on 5/17/12


God is not keeping a point system on little and BIG sins. Only a worldly minded person would believe that.
---kathr4453 on 5/17/12


Or a person who is desperately trying to hold onto their belief that God chose them to be saved OVER someone else.

I think the word you used fits best. Pharisee. They missed out on Christ because they were too proud to admit they were no better than anyone else. Thats why they hated Jesus. He attacked their pride with his words.
---LindaH on 5/17/12


AMEN ginger, join the club of schizophrenics. Scripture uses the word SIN which means to fall short. No one falls just a little bit short. WE have all fallen SHORT of the Glory of God.

I know there are many on death row who have committed horrible sins, who are Born Again, thank goodness to Prison Ministries.

I guess markv believes those who God has called into prison ministries are labeled schizophrenic too.

James says if you break ONE of teh 10 commandments you have broken ALL in God's eyes. That should say it all. God is not keeping a point system on little and BIG sins. Only a worldly minded person would believe that.
---kathr4453 on 5/17/12




A scribe or pharisee in todays terms would be someone who says they are saved and looks down their nose at the "sinners" and says God won't save them because of what they have done. God can't save a murderer, or a child molester but God saved you because you didn't commit THAT kind of sin. They say "Thank God I am not that kind of sinner!"
Big surprise! In God's eyes there is no big sin or little sin. Sin is sin is sin.
If you stole a penny, you sinned. If you told a white lie, you sinned. And you are equal to the murderer and the molester.
God can and does save all kinds of people and that is what we should be praying for.
---ginger on 5/17/12


Kathr and MarkV: The word is spelled, "schizophrenic."
---Trish on 5/17/12


KJV

Luk 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts,


Luk 20:47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.

Do people think there are people who fit this today?

In relation to the original question.

The mercy and love of God passes all understanding.
---chris on 5/17/12


Well markv, I believe gossiping and back stabbing is a SIN. So you believe my doctrine is depraved? The CROSS and the preaching of the CROSS is depraved.

OK, but I'm not surprised. I've always known you believe the Doctrine of the Cross is depraved.

You feel free will is depraved.

I'm in good company of the depraved.

We'll just have to see at the Judgement seat of Christ won't we. I'm not afraid at all of that day.

What you are MarkV is anti-Semitic. And any Jew who knows scripture who shows how wrong your doctrine is you are threatened by.

I can't help that.

I am what I am BY THE GRACE OF GOD!!

WHEN YOU CURSE ME YOU CURSE GOD, AND CHRIST IN ME!
---kathr4453 on 5/17/12


Kathr, I tried very hard not to use the word "Schitzophranic" concerning you, but since you think it is ok to use it, I will say what many of us have discussed between ourselves on emails concering you. That you have to be mentally sick, that somehow you have a real mental problem. And that maybe we should not answer you at all. But I, not them, have concluded that you are not mental but depraved, blinded by satan and lost. And evil is the only thing that can come out of your mouth. That's why they don't answer you, but I do. Not to change your mind, but to bring truth to others when I answer your false doctrines.
---Mark_V. on 5/17/12


Second, I am not a Pharisee, I am a Christian latino born in Texas. Get your facts right.
---Mark_V. on 5/17/12


So no such thing as a Latino from Texas being a Pharisee?

Unfortuantely many professing christian from all sorts of backgrouds are Pharisees.

Jesus said "BEWARE of the Leaven of the Pharisees".

And the Pharisee said..."Thank goodness I am not like other sinners"...

OH now you want to play stupid and say ONLY a Jew can be a Pharisee, and Jesus was talking ONLY to Jews.

No wonder you are hard to reason with.
You're a trip MarkV.
---kathr4453 on 5/17/12


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Big difference between you and I. Your theology is twisted. Why pray to God in the first place. You do not believe He can do anything without the permission of the child murderers? ---Mark_V. on 5/16/12

Your theology is even more twisted then and you don't really believe what you say you believe. When your brother had cancer, you appealed to the bloggers on Christianet to pray for his salvation, so I guess I could ask you the same question you asked CraigA in the comment above. No need to pray or get the word out if there is no choice on the part of the recipient.
---blogger8980 on 5/17/12


MarkV, Ginger understands, CraigA understands. It's YOU who fail to understand the Gospel. YOU like to argue, but your arguments sound more like you are schitzophranic than anything else. All over these blogs, you don't make any sense at all. You take and TWIST everyone words to, and then you can't even understand what YOU have twisted.

THAT's TWISTED!
---kathr4453 on 5/17/12


Kathr, because all you want to do is argue, you forget what you say and contradict your own self. First you claim there is child murderers, molesters and rapist in heaven. Then you answer back to me with,

" You simply don't understand Romans 6-8 or Colossians 2 or Corinthians..OLD THINGS pass away behold all things become NEW."

You seen to not understand what you preach. If all things pass away behold all things become new, why are there murderers and molesters in heaven? You fall in your own mess.
Second, I am not a Pharisee, I am a Christian latino born in Texas. Get your facts right.
---Mark_V. on 5/17/12


Amen Craig and Kathr!
God takes the worst of the worst and creates them a new creature in Christ.
David was a murderer AND and adulterer.
Yet was a man after God's own heart. He did not have Christ yet he had faith in God. He asked God to CREATE in him a clean heart.
He asked! He sought after God.
If God can change him he can change anyone.
All of us have sinned a fell short. That is why Christ came..To save the sinner. Change them, give them a clean heart.
God can change the worst of the worst. and in fact HE has. WHO are we to say who he won't change and who he will?
MarkV says this all the time yet believes God won't do this. That is a strange concept to me.
---ginger on 5/17/12


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Mark V keep the faith brother
---willow on 5/16/12


//you forgot those who never heard about Jesus, they never rejected Christ, they never heard of Him.//
Mark, I didn't forget
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,
---michael_e on 5/16/12


Kathr, I get it. You said child murderers, rapist, molesters would be in heaven. That's what you said. By your logic they are still the same people they were while on earth. If those kind are in heaven, no one is save in heaven. You might get attack by one. Shear nonsense, just to argue. Only those who are justified are in heaven.

---Mark_V. on 5/15/12


Here markV again believes the preaching of the CROSS is foolishness. That a child molester cannot repent and be Justified. You do not understand how one even becomes a New Creature IN CHRIST through the Cross. You simply don't understand Romans 6-8 or Colossians 2 or Corinthians..OLD THINGS pass away behold all things become NEW.

You're a pharisee MarkV.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/12


KJV

Luk 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts,


Luk 20:47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
---chris on 5/16/12


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Trey: YES, we human beings of today are no better than the Jews. We go into disobedience like they did. The only advantage that we have today is MORE grace than they had because of Jesus.
---Adetunji on 5/16/12


CraigA, Pray for discernment. Esau chose food over his God-given birthright. He was hungry so he sold his birthright, the firstborn blessing of inheritance, to Jacob for some bean pottage. When Jacob fought with the angel of God, he was not being evil, but personally seeking the Lord to bless him. Therefore he was not evil nor cursed, but God blessed him and changed his name from "Jacob" to "Israel". The first church was called "Bethel" meaning, "house of God, or God's house" which was set up by Jacob, it is recorded in Genesis 28:16-22. Esau's heart was not right (Gen.27:41). Therefore says God, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.". Malachi 1:2,3+ Romans 9:13.
---Eloy on 5/16/12


Esau and Jacob both did not have murder in their hearts, but only Esau.===Eloy

But Jacob had greed in his. He manipulated his own brother out of his inheritance and then cheated him out of his fathers blessing.

Jacob was not righteous according to the law either.
---CraigA on 5/15/12


Craig, God saves anyone He desires. All are sinners. Even I. I teach the sovereignty of God, you teach the sovereignty of man with his free will. I pray that God shuts the doors to heaven to child murderers and kills them so that many more children are not murdered or molested, you pray that God opens the doors of heaven to the child murderers. I pray for the children, you pray for the murderers. And when you pray and bleed for them, you believe God cannot do anything because they won't let Him, they have free will. They have to give permission for God to save them. Big difference between you and I. Your theology is twisted. Why pray to God in the first place. You do not believe He can do anything without the permission of the child murderers?
---Mark_V. on 5/16/12


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Discernment manifests that there are sinners and saints: not all are sinners and not all are saints. Not all are goats and not all are sheep. Not all are tares and not all are wheat. Cain and Abel were not both murderers, but only Cain. Esau and Jacob both did not have murder in their hearts, but only Esau. Not the world and Noah with his family were sinners, but only the world. God knows how to save the righteous out of the world and to condemn the wicked, and he has prepared a heaven and a hell, and not just a hell.
---Eloy on 5/15/12


No Mark, you don't get it.

Pick the worst sin you have ever done and label yourself accordingly. That is what you are! That is what Jesus saved. You didn't deserve salvation any more than a murderer or child molester. I know that will anger you but its true. You are NO better. Neither am I. Neither is ANYONE in these blogs.

Moses was a murderer. King David was a murderer. Paul was a murderer. Have you not noticed that God typically picks the worst sinners and most broken people to show His power in?

Yes- He could even choose a child molester.
---CraigA on 5/15/12


Kathr, I get it. You said child murderers, rapist, molesters would be in heaven. That's what you said. By your logic they are still the same people they were while on earth. If those kind are in heaven, no one is save in heaven. You might get attack by one. Shear nonsense, just to argue. Only those who are justified are in heaven.

Michael e, you said only those who rejected Christ will go to the Great White Throne of judgment, that is not all fact, you forgot those who never heard about Jesus, they never rejected Christ, they never heard of Him. "And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God, "and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Act 13:48).
---Mark_V. on 5/15/12


I would think we have all failed in our duty as Christians at sometime. I know I have many times. There are times when I have got lost.
I don't see myself as a fake Christian, maybe a little fallible when i look back on life. Wrong priorities, hurting people with careless thought or word.Taking God for granted.
Yet when I come to God feeling ashamed and repentent, disappointed.
There are time I feel his warmth, he takes my hand, dusts me down. I feel forgiven but I am not worthy of it.
Fake Christians to me are those that make money out of faith for their own purpose. Pretend to believe to get popularity. etc.
God knows what is in our souls Trey.

---chris on 5/14/12


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MarkV, the REASON there will be no child molesters in Heaven is any child molester who has received Jesus Christ is CRUCIFIED with Christ, where that old adam sin man is CRUCIFIED with Christ, and the NEW MAN IN CHRIST, who is a NEW CREATURE is no longer seen after the FLESH in God's Eyes, has been forgiven, the OLD MAN is done away in Christ, and the New Creature is who will be in heaven. Flesh and Blood cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven MarkV...

YOU STILL DON'T GET IT DO YOU!!!
---kathr4453 on 5/14/12


//only those who have rejected God's offer of forgivness through Jesus Christ will stand at the Great White Throne.//
Amen Kath
---michael_e on 5/14/12


Rob, I know for years Bob Jones University would not let other races into the school for fear of different races dating. We see this even today when George W Bush won in NC based on a lie that John McCain was once married to a Black woman and had a mixed race child. The truth was John and his wife, both white adopted a black girl. But that truth came out too late for John. Dirty politics!

But it proves there is still prejudice today in SC...where Bob Jones University( Calvinist) is....among other places.
---kathr4453 on 5/14/12


Kathr, you did a lot of talk and again you bring in Calvinism, and what you've been getting is the Word of God.
There will be no child murderers in heaven, nor molestors or rapist. If they were, it would not be save for children in heaven. You have the wrong heaven, your thinking of hell. That's where they are going. This is Bible Truth.
"For God appointed us not unto wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9).
This statement would be useless if there was not others appointed unto wrath.
"The election obtained it, and the rest were hardened" (Rom. 11:7).
"Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect?" (Rom. 8:33). You do.
---Mark_V. on 5/14/12


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Kathr, even though I am not a Calvinist, many years ago I was engaged to a lady who was Calvinist.

Her Pastor forbade our marrying because he said we would be unequally yoked, because we were of different race and culture.
---Rob on 5/13/12


MarkV, only those who have rejected God's offer of forgivness through Jesus Christ will stand at the Great White Throne.

Even non child molerters as well.

All Pharisees will be there too. THOSE who think they are the Elect and are not, and those who think they are better than another.

God doesn't compare YOU to another.

This is what is wrong with your doctrine. You believe God picked you out because you think God judgen sin on a scale from one to ten.

Salvation is not INHERITED.

Jacob INHERITED the blessing because of Birth right. God did not Choose Billy Bob down the street from Isaac.

He chose those who were the descendents of Abraham by PHYSICAL BIRTH to fulfull the promises made to Abraham.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/12


//They will get what they deserve.//

Years ago, as a baby Christian I found myself in a Calvinist Church, where in 1983 or so there was a great drought somewhere in Africa, and people were dying right and left.

My heart broke for these people. But on a Sunday, our Pastor stated, we should not be concerned, and because they rejected God many moons ago, THEY DESERVE to die.

This Church had no compassion on anyone, self righteous smug people. And several self righteous women who didn't believe a woman should go to church without their husband.

When an 8 year old boy was saved(visitor not a member) at VBC, they completely snubbed him and did not acknowledging him or reach out to his parents.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/12


I found really odd things about this Calvinist Church too. When they taught Romans they SKIPPED OVER Romans 6-8 as though it didn't exist. They go from Romans 5 to Romans 9 omitting the most important part of DOCTRINE, right into ELECTION, not Identification.

This happened TWICE. Once in SS and another time when the Pastor was teaching Romans.

These people have a zeal for God, but NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE.

In Identification, Romans 6-8 our old man is CRUCIFIED with Christ.

In Calvinism, their old man is re birthed and sanctified.

These people are truly ENEMIES of the CROSS.

MarkV has validated this false cult over and over.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/12


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Conclusion: So whether it's TBN's false Gospel of prosperity, based on OT Blessings given to Israel for obedience, or Calvinists who believe they are Israel and cling to OT teachings believing they are the New Israel of God,they BOTH bypass Romans 6-8, that the NEW CREATURE is DEAD to the things of this world, is raised up to sit in HEAVENLY places In Christ, AFTER we identify with Him in Death.

---kathr4453 on 5/13/12


Kathr, in heaven there will only be righteous people. The molestors, child murderers, rapist, with stand before the Great White Throne of Judgment where they will be judge by their works. There will be no evil wicked people in heaven. You have the wrong heaven.
---Mark_V. on 5/13/12


It would be good for all of us to remember that we shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
---Catholicus on 5/12/12


//They will get what they deserve.//
Mark, are you going to get what you DESERVE??
What does the Bible say you deserve?
---michael_e on 5/12/12


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Yes, there are FAKE CHRISTIANS, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

If you want to see what they look like and what they do, all you need to do is watch the people you see on TBN and Daystar. They provide a venue for these types of people, Romans 1:28-32.
---Rob on 5/12/12


heaven will be full of murderers and child molesters. HOWEVER flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven no matter how good that FLESH IS. MarkV believes his FLESH is good and being sanctified daily. THAT IS A LIE FROM HELL!

Those who are Christ's HAVE CRUCIFIED THE FLESH.

ANYONE, even a child molester can become a NEW CREATURE in Christ.

That is what is so wonderful about tHE Gospel. Anyone's sinful FLESH, no matter what, is crucified with Christ that the power of SIN, (Yes even child molestation,) IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.

Let's all PRAY for the Lost no matter what they have done.


MarkV, you being a self righteous lot will spend eternity WITH CHILD MOLESTERS. There are no 5 star hotels in hell!
---kathr4453 on 5/12/12


Michael e, you sure can read but not understand. Kathr can read and not understand either. Nothing wrong with that, you are not along, many are with you. I do pray for those who rape and murder children, that God will stop them(sin that leads to death) so they don't rape and kill another child ever again and cause pain to the child and their parents for the rest of their lives. You can pray for God to open heaven because they were so bruttle to the children. Maybe God will permit child molesters, murderers and rapist into heaven. The Bible says He only permits those who are Just.
And to Kathr's answer, there is categories for sins, for there are degrees of sins. And God will be just and not cruel. They will get what they deserve.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/12


Where all this is REALLY leading, something that has always been taught to Calvinists, is that what Calvin did...murder was perfectly OK. Because in Calvin's eyes, who Calvin murdered Calvin considered evil. Look too at the witch hunts in Salem..Calvinists ON Calvinists....motivated out of GREED and hate. They accused their own, not outsiders...

Mark my words, in the END when anti-Christ rules for his short time, he will USE people like MarkV to execute judgement on others, believing they have done good, and actually believing anti-Christ is Christ Himself, and they believing they are gods too, passing judgement and executing that judgement.

They are not SHEEP, but GOATS!

The doctrine and mindset is as evil as it gets.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/12


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//I am sorry you have not prayed for the death of some real bad dudes.//
Mark, In the news the other day a 13 year old girl stabbed her 4 year old cousin to death. You would actually pray for her death?
//how do you know the will of God?//
I can read.
---michael_e on 5/12/12


So I choose to pray for the children, not the murderers. You choose the opposite.
---Mark_V. on 5/6/12


AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL.

MarkV puts sins in categories of 1-10. GOD DOES NOT. MarkV fails to see that in God's eyes a liar is just as evil to God as a child molester.

MarkV is a pharisee through and through, and does not speak for God or Christians.

YET MarkV claims he begged fro mercy after salvation. WHAT awful thing do you think God wouldn't or hadn't forgiven you of at the time of your salvation?

God Justified the UNGODLY, including child molesters, murderers, liars, cheats, drunkards, etc.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/12


Michael e, I am sorry you have not prayed for the death of some real bad dudes. Second, you said it is not the will of God, so how do you know the will of God? In ( Exodus 13:15) we are told it was the will of God to killed every firstborn. Our prayers are not Gods prayers, they are our own prayers and we can pray for whatever we want, it does not mean God will answer our prayer. He will do what He has already ordained to be done. After all He is God.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/12


Trey, the answer is yes. 2 Timothy 3 warns of those who have a form of Godliness buy deny the Power, from such TURN AWAY.

Today as we speak, this warning still applies.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/12


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Atheist, if there is no God Craig can't be wrong. You keep coming back to the blog because your pilgrimage of despair en route to nothingness leaves you empty and you attempt to fill your emptiness with more arguments for despair. That is why your questions are circular. Its clear to all of us the one thing you have never expressed is joy. Though we pray for you, your efforts to recruit and persuade the joyful to exchange eternity for nothingness is fruitless.
I would suggest you give it a rest but the tortured soul cannot rest. How sad.
---larry on 5/11/12


Atheist, it is Gods desire that all men know the truth and be saved (1 Tim 2:4), but yet it is written in scripture that men resist the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51, Hebrews 3). When they resist the truth of God and God knows they will not repent, He sends them delusion (2 Thes 2:11).

God uses you in the way that you choose (Proverbs 16:9). Whatever path you choose God will use you for his glory. If you want to repent, God accepts you by his mercy and grace. If you want to be rebellious, He will use you in that path as well.
---CraigA on 5/11/12


Mark, I have never prayed for God to kill someone, that is praying against His will.
---michael_e on 5/11/12


Craig,

Who sends the delusion?
---atheist on 5/11/12


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Atheist, please understand that Mark speaks for himself, not every Christian in the world.

The Bible is very clear that men are sent strong delusion BECAUSE they reject the truth. (2 Thes 2:10) The aren't sent delusion to keep them from accepting the truth.

Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it. (John 3:17)
---CraigA on 5/11/12


Michael e, I pray because as a believer I now depend upon God. All believers now have access into the kingdom of God. We are not complete yet until our bodies are glorified, but right now we can speak with God and ask for His help on all things. It is a desire that all believers have, a relationship with the Lord. Don't you have it? I know that God's will, will be done, and I also know His decision is perfect. Maybe not what I want to hear, but nevertheless perfect for He is perfect.
---Mark_V. on 5/11/12


Mark:"His elect and they will all come to faith and be saved, the rest are vessels of wrath. They chose to do what they do."

Which is it,---make up you mind. God chooses, or they ignore god.

Or does god choose to make them ignore him so he can torture them in hell?

Nice guy, your god...
---atheist on 5/10/12


//Only a miraculous work of God can change them and save them, no matter what I pray.//

So why do you pray?
---michael_e on 5/7/12


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Michael e, you are so wrong. The reason some are saved and some or not is because of God. He has chosen His elect and they will all come to faith and be saved, the rest are vessels of wrath. They chose to do what they do.

I pray for everyone on line, because I believe none of them are child murderers. If you are one, I would never pray for you. I would pray that God gets rid of you in order to save the children. No child molester, murderer is willing to change himself, they love to take advantage of children. Only a miraculous work of God can change them and save them, no matter what I pray. It is His will that will be done, not mine. So I choose to pray for the children, not the murderers. You choose the opposite.
---Mark_V. on 5/6/12


No, MarkV, I pray that the child molesters will see their sinfulness and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, so HE can make them a new man.

You shouldnt be praying for their condemnation. You should be praying for a change to take place in them. Thats a greater testimony for the life-changing power of Jesus Christ.
---CraigA on 5/6/12


Mark. if God killed every sinner, no one would be on this blog, including you.
---michaei_e on 5/6/12


Michael e, if you love the Child murderers and want God to save them, how is that possible when you believe that the child murderers have to let Him? Remember? most of you say you have free will. God cannot interfer with man, and now you are giving me advice.
What I pray for is my own personal relationship with the Lord. And I "don't" love the child murderers. I love the children. I don't want anymore to be killed. So my prayer is that God does away with all of them. If He does, many children will be saved. I rather have the children saved then the child murderers. You want the opposite. You and Craig have not even spoken for the children, where is the love for them? At least I am not a hypocrite.
---Mark_V. on 5/6/12


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All may have erroneous beliefs. The question of 'fake Christians' means you must define where is becomes fake.

Probably that is people who at the end will not be saved.
---Peter on 5/5/12


//I pray to God for Him to kill the wicked child murderers and molestors so that they don't kill another child ever again. And prevent them from anymore sin.//
Christians should pray for God to save people not kill them
---michaei_e on 5/5/12


Are there real Christians, and is you one?
---atheist on 5/5/12


Craig, now you question my salvation because I do not love the child murderers and rapist. Your a hypocrite. Lets see the difference between you and I,

I pray to God for Him to kill the wicked child murderers and molestors so that they don't kill another child ever again. And prevent them from anymore sin.

While you, since you believe in free will, you pray to the child murderers and molestors so they can change their own behavior because they have free will and God cannot change them unless they let Him.

We are different.
My dependance is on God, while yours is in the child murderers and molestors who have free will. Because you bleed for them.
---Mark_V. on 5/4/12


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Mark, the Spirits presence is evidence that we are the children of God. That's how you KNOW. If a mans desires dont change its a sign that he doesn't have Jesus living in him.

I dont think you understand what the preaching of the cross is. Jesus told us to take up our cross and follow him. That means we must live selflessly just as He did...even to the point of death if God asks it of us. He that loses his life for Christs sake shall find it!

Its a natural human response for us to hate certains sins more than others... but that is living according to the flesh and not the Spirit. If a man cant love his enemies the way Christ loved us, is he living by his flesh or the Spirit?
---CraigA on 5/2/12


Craig, here you go assuming. Do you have reason to believe you are one of them?
I don't lie and say I love everyone the same. I admit I cannot love child murderers.
4. I am not a stumbling block for others. They stumble because they do not know the Truth. God, not me, has kept it from them.

"The preaching of the Cross is to them that perish foolishness," but unto us which are saved it is the power of God" (1 Cor. 1:18)
"But we preach Christ crucified, "unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness" but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God"
---Mark_V. on 5/2/12


That's why you still see the anger and hate that comes out of their mouths so many times. There has been no change in them.
5/1/12
--MarkV


Now see thats where you are very wrong sir. To assume that those who disagree with yoru doctrine havent experienced a change because of the love of Christ in just unbelievable. How can you dare make such an assumption? Jesus Christ has help me overcome racism, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and sexual addiction by changing me from the inside out. That is why I asked him to be my Lord and Savior. I knew I needed the change because the Spirit convicted me.

Dont be a stumblingblock for your own brothers and sisters because youre too proud to admit you dont know everything.
---CraigA on 5/1/12


The "zeal not according to knowledge" that these Jews had did NOT stop them from being Jews. It simply meant they were instructed poorly.
---Cluny on 4/30/12

Reminds me of another Scripture, also given to tell us about the end times:

2 Tim 2:5 "holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power, Avoid such men as these"

People with zeal but without knowledge remind me of the video clip I watched where a teenager stole a tank for a joyride. The kid was impossible to stop and left such devastion behind him.

As the Scripture says, avoid such men as these.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/1/12


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cluny, sometimes your foolishness is a delightful.
---Eloy on 5/1/12


\\"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for 'Israel is that they may be saved."\\

Did this mean they weren't "real" Jews?

By no means.
---Cluny on 5/1/12


Cluny, don't you think this passage is talking about non-Christians? Verse one clearly says,

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for 'Israel is that they may be saved."

They did have a zeal for God, in that they demonstrated by their legalistic conformity to the law and fierce oppostion to Judaism's opponents (Acts 22:3: 26:4,5: Gal. 1:13, 14: Phil. 3:5,6), but Christ they did not know. Today, we have the very same thing, many call themselves Christians but have no contrite heart for the Lord Jesus Christ, or have the wrong gospel with the wrong Christ. That's why you still see the anger and hate that comes out of their mouths so many times. There has been no change in them.
---Mark_V. on 5/1/12


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