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Wife Has Jules Spirit

What do you do if you are a pastor and you wife is a drunk and lies behind you back a says she is not doing it but you find she is and she has been doing this for 6 year.and what if she has a Jules spirit that is hurting his ministry from getting off the ground and she is calling members starting trouble.

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 ---tavares_richardson on 5/1/12
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Tavares, as pastor, you should know the qualifications of an overseer of a chuch and shouldn't put your bad testimony for others to see.

1 Tim 3:1-7, 'A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous, one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence, for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the Church of God?"
then hear this,
"Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil"
---Mark_V. on 7/12/12


Hi Jed, I definitely agree with you as far as "oppositional defiance disorder". When my ex-stepdaughter was "diagnosed with that, I about puked! She was such a brat and now she had a "disorder"--ugh!
---Mary on 7/9/12


T_R: If one's ministry is truly from God, nothing nor anyone can keep it down! God will likewise deal with (remove) the trouble makers.
---Leon on 7/9/12


Trish, it seems after much arguing on other threads about this topic we seem to understand each other now. All those times when I refered to bogus mental illness diagnosis, this is what I meant. I didn't mean that mental illness isn't real. I know there are legit mental illnesses that are beyond the patient's control. But I do not consider these "personality disorders" and "behavior disorders" that are really just a nice lable for selfish and irresponsible behavior to be a true mental illness. And I don't think people ought to be receiving Disability money for acting out, but many do. I don't think people ought to be getting paid for having "opositional defiant disorder" or "explosive anger".
---Jed on 7/9/12


tavares_richardson on 5/1/12

answer seems to be simple:

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
---francis on 7/9/12




"And we still will never find out what a Jules spirit is, I'm afraid.

Glory to Jesus Christ!"
---Cluny on 7/8/12


Cluny: I'm convinced T_R was trying to spell "jealous" & phonetically came up with "ju les". "Jealous" is the only word that fits contextually with what T_R's two run on sentences seem to be saying. Allegedly, the pastor's wife has a "jealous spirit". :/
---Leon on 7/8/12


Jed: I agree with you, especially when it comes to personality disorders. The only real true mental illnesses are schizophrenia, and the other psychotic disorders, and bipolar disorder, along with the other mood disorders such as clinical depression and hypomania.

Personality disorders are simply learned behavior patterns and if they are learned, they can be unlearned.

The reason they get the label of mental illness has to do with insurance companies. There has to be a code to communicate diagnoses for the insurers.

As it stands, the acronym DSM stands for Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, not Mental Illnesses.
---Trish on 7/8/12


Cluny, I hold a Ph.D. in Psychology and have worked in crisis intake at my area's largest mental health facility. When most people (who have never worked in mental health) hear the term "mental illness", they think of severe mental illness like Schizophrenia and Schizoaffective Disorder where people have uncontrolable visual and auditory dilusions and paranoia. However, these are not what most "mental health" patients are today. The majority of our patients' problems are just very innapropriate behavior that has been given a mental illness lable as an excuse for their bad behavior.
---Jed on 7/8/12


\\One classic example is called Opositional Defiant Disorder, which is defined as a pattern of disobedient, hostile, and defiant behavior toward authority figures. ... "Disorders" like these account for the vast majority of people diagnosed with a mental illness today.\\

Thank you for explaining what you mean.

In what field of mental health are you qualified?

And we still will never find out what a Jules spirit is, I'm afraid.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/8/12


Cluny, of the millions of people diagnosed with a mental illness in America, few cases are legitimately beyond the patient's control. Most "mental illnesses" are "behavior disorders" and are nothing short of plain old attention seeking behavior resulting from being a spoiled brat. One classic example is called Opositional Defiant Disorder, which is defined as a pattern of disobedient, hostile, and defiant behavior toward authority figures. 20% of school children in America are diagnosed with this "disorder". We people with commone sense recognize this behavior as a simple lack of discipline. "Disorders" like these account for the vast majority of people diagnosed with a mental illness today.
---Jed on 7/7/12




I guess we'll never find out what a Jules spirit is.

\\Most of what is considered "mental illnesses" is a SIN.\\

Jed, can you give an example of a mental illness that is really a sin? Please be specific.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/7/12


Jed:

You said: Alocoholism is a SIN. That's right. All addictions are SIN. Most of what is considered "mental illnesses" is a SIN. Let's get real. People just need to start obeying God and quit making excuses.

Can you show any biblical reference to corroborate this?

Alcoholism is a weakness for drinking - i.e. a temptation. The bible frequently condemns drunkeness, but does not condemn those with predispositions to drinking, but choosing to abstain from it.

Temptation itself is not a sin. Jesus himself was tempted in all things (Hebrews 4:15).

Martin Luther one compared temptation to a bird. While you can't stop a bird from flying overhead, you CAN stop one from building a nest in your hair.
---StrongAxe on 5/20/12


Jed: That is true. But HOW do you define who is 'addicted' to something?

And no, it is never 'obvious' or 'easy to see' or something like that

Are you 'addicted' to air?
---Peter on 5/20/12


Alocoholism is a SIN. That's right. All addictions are SIN. Most of what is considered "mental illnesses" is a SIN. Let's get real. People just need to start obeying God and quit making excuses.
---Jed on 5/20/12


cluny still needs his presbyterian bi-focals.
---Eloy on 5/19/12


\\I see two problems. One, the pastor's wife is an alcoholic and unsaved, which may cause various problems like this.\\

The real problem is that Eloy is unsaved, as can be seen in his calling Jesus the Father and the Holy Spirit, and saying that the Father and Holy Spirit have physical manifestations.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/18/12


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Cluny I wonder the same thing myself. I have searched everywhere for an answer to what a Jules spirit is. The closest thing I found was where a man with the first name Jules started a Gnostic Church in France. I'm still wondering what the writer meant,Tavares please enlighten us to what kind of spirit is a Jules and what does it do. Thank you.
---Darlene_1 on 5/10/12


Is tavares ever going to tell us what a Jules spirit is?

BTW, tavares. Are you asking for yourself or someone else?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/6/12


AA is a good thing, my sister is a member, but it would be better if they put Christ Jesus at the center of their support and for permanent deliverance from alcohol consumption. For scripture reads, "whom the Son sets free is free indeed", not some free, not a little free, but completely and totally free from sin. Either a person is converted, else still a sinner, but once converted then you are in Christ and Christ is in you, not just for an hour on Sunday for church, but 24/7 holy and righteous and clean 24/7 daily, always and at all times every day, his new life. And there is no bondage nor any fear of sin anymore because greater is he that is in us, than he that is in the world.
---Eloy on 5/3/12


When it is in context of discussing Steps 2 and 3, I share that Jesus is my Higher Power. When it is in context, I share that the Bible is my guide for life.

I am more interested in developing friendships with people who need help staying sober, so I can share that I am only sober because of my personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

AA is not a therapy group. It is about developing relationships outside of the AA meetings where people help each other stay sober by encouraging one another. AA meetings are where newcomers reach out for help and meet people who are successful in staying sober. From there, friendships are formed.
---Trish on 5/3/12


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Trish...You have no problem saying that Jesus is your Lord in AA meetings?
---KarenD on 5/2/12


Karen: You do not know the history of AA. If you did, you would not say we were being politically correct in changing the wording to include people of other faiths.

I have met Jews, Hindus and Atheists, who are able to get, and stay sober, because AA welcomes them. Most people in AA near me are fallen away mainline Protestants and Catholics.

Most AA meetings are Closed to people who are not alcoholics. You would not be welcome there. I, however, being an alcoholic, can attend both Closed and Open meetings, where I can be light and salt, to the unbelievers, and show them my hope in Christ.
---Trish on 5/2/12


Strongaxe: People go to AA meetings in the beginning, to learn how to get sober, and to learn the 12 Steps. Once they learn the Steps, they are taught to help the newcomers. Some people become sponsors, who are like mentors. It is selfish to just get sober, and not go back to meetings to share your hope.

In AA meetings, we always have a time of open sharing. That is where we learn who is struggling, and where I learn who to reach out to after the meetings. I give them my phone number, and get theirs, and try to reach out to them between meetings to help them along the way. That is how AA works. It's not just going to meetings. It's about building relationships.
---Trish on 5/2/12


Trish:

I wasn't speaking about people who attend AA in order to mentor others. This is a positive reason to do so, and can apply to other endeavours as well. Students go to school to learn, and later go back as teachers to help others learn.

I was speaking about the idea that "if you stop going, you may relapse". People who go back for this reason are treating it as an impotent placebo, replacing a harmful addictive drug with a harmless addictive drug, and going back because they have to, not because they want to.
---StrongAxe on 5/2/12


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Cluny...Actually, I do know the history of AA and that the Big Book originally did not say that you could have faith in anything. The original book talked about faith in Jesus Christ. But, now it is politically correct.
---KarenD on 5/2/12


Strongaxe: The 12th Step of AA is about helping other alcoholics. The philosophy is by helping other alcoholics, I am made stronger. I go to AA meetings to meet other alcoholics, and share with them my hope, which is because of my relationship with Jesus Christ.

I met a baby Christian who I am since mentoring and taking to church and Bible studies at my church. This friendship would not have been possible if I stopped attending AA meetings.

Attending AA meetings is not an addiction. It is a way to help others who need encouragement and hope that they can stop drinking and get better. That is the essence of the 12th Step of Alcoholics Anonymous. I can't keep my sobriety if I don't give to others who need help.
---Trish on 5/2/12


Cluny:

Jesus didn't tell the blind man to go to the pool Siloam every week for the rest of his life. If the only way AA can work is if you must go every week or relapse, then it is not a cure, but a treatment, like much medicine is today - replacing a lifetime addiction to one drug by a lifetime addiction to another, albeit more benign, one.
---StrongAxe on 5/2/12


traveres, the woman is obviously an alcoholic. Lying about it etc is all part of that senerio.

Maybe the Lord wants the man to deal with his wife first before starting a ministry. If this began about 6 months ago, her husband needs to find out why. SHE comes before any ministry..period.

Is this YOUR wife, or someone elses?

It's really between that man and the Lord.
---kathr4453 on 5/2/12


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Karen: Talk about twisting my words. My faith is in Jesus Christ. I go to AA to meet others who are struggling, and to be a light to those who may not know Christ. Helping other alcoholics helps me stay sober.

I met a baby Christian last year at a meeting, and now I am mentoring her in the Word, and she attends church and Bible study with me. This would not have been possible without my attendance at AA meetings. Who else can tell the members of AA about the true Higher Power, Jesus Christ, except a believer who attends AA.

I also attend a recovery Bible study at my church, for women in my church. My friend I am mentoring also attends that with me.
---Trish on 5/2/12


strongax, whenever you're ready to receive, address me.
---Eloy on 5/2/12


I suppose if you had seen the blind man groping his way to the pool of Siloam, you would have told him, "You don't need to do that. Just have faith in Jesus," not knowing that the blind man was doing EXACTLY what Jesus told him to do.

Did it ever occur to you, KarenD, that Jesus is working through AA meetings for Trish?

Did you not know that AA started with a Christian movement originally called the Oxford Group (not to be confused with the Oxford Movement in Anglicanism)?

MYOB, dear soul.

Meanwhile, we still don't know what a "Jules spirit" is.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/2/12


Alcoholism is a physical genetic condition which predisposes a person to want more and more alcohol once they have tasted it. It was concluded to be Genetic after research was done on twins adopted by different families at birth but both were alcoholics. It is no different than the seasonal allergies I get in the Spring and Fall and resulting infections,mother has them,so do my Grandchildren. We must not judge our Christian brothers and sisters and especially make judgements about things we don't fully understand. Christians have a tendency to name things because of sin when they may not be. A person must do what works for them in trusting God for help. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin,but AA"s made part of Trish's faith to cope.
---Darlene_1 on 5/2/12


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Trish...It is sad that you think that you will relapse if you don't go to AA meetings. Jesus can set you free from all of that. I know hundreds of alcoholics who don't attend AA and are not drinking. They put their faith in Jesus, not in a meeting.
---KarenD on 5/2/12


Eloy:

You wrote: Or know you all not that wrong will not inherit kingdom of God? Be not deluded: neither drunkards, nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit kingdom of God." I Cor.6:9,10.

You should definitely take this verse to heart, because you are constantly calling people unsaved, full of darkness, blasphemers, etc. based solely on whether they happen to personally disagree with YOU, and not knowing anything else about them or their state of grace.
---StrongAxe on 5/2/12


"Or know you all not that wrong will not inherit kingdom of God? Be not deluded: neither drunkards, nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit kingdom of God." I Cor.6:9,10.
---Eloy on 5/2/12


\\Most diabetics stay diabetics for the rest of their lives.\\

There was someone who used to post here who claimed he was healed of diabetes.

He's now on dialysis, which is why we don't see him him anymore.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


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hello,Mary my friend If one thing well,uh let's 2 things I have surely learn being on here,before being on here n just ELENA'S life...do not judge! and mercy! (sigh!) Please forgive! Forgiveness being judgemental & unforgiveness...both have lethal consequences ...(my own opinion) so,yes I learn not to judge no one If at all possible! I was thinking about the other day,how hurt somtimes feel 'bout my daughter and I cry out and say "lord I don't understand..I felt later 'n prayer like the Lord touch my heart 'n say how many times have I forgivin' you? ELENA? My response yes,Lord wow! So many times, I know I love my daughter & I got to hold on to love her and faith never give up,lord!
---ELENA on 5/1/12


what if she has a Jules spirit that is hurting his ministry from getting off the ground...

Ummmm....his first ministry is to his wife. He seems more concerned about HIS public ministry than he does his private ministry. I'm sorry, but that is as hypocritical, if not more so, than her drinking....and his lack of attention to her a fuel to continue what numbs the pain of feeling so insignificant he would put others in front of her. The marriage, not the public ministry, is a representation of the relationship between Christ and the church. A public ministry will be no more successful than the private and a man whose wife is hurting while he plays the public role cares more for public image than the image of Christ.
---Linda on 5/2/12


Hi, right on Elena! :) Yep, you are sooo right about not judging whether someone is saved or not, that's not up to us but there's sure a lot of judgement in the church, unfortunately. And they judge the pastor just as much as the wife. My pastor's wife has been delivered and their marriage restored, praise the Lord! :)
---Mary on 5/1/12


family,we need to be carefull about say'n if the pastor's wife is not saved...I believe God is able to do above & beyond what we could or seculate.Trish brings up good points...we can not judge about her being saved & alcoholism is a disease. We need to pray for this pastor and pray they can both get adequate Christian balanced help for treating them both...a proffesional Christian counselor for pastors & also,A LA N O N for family of alcoholics we should pray for all pastors! They many are good & get such demands from the public,they get "burn out!" men ought to always pray and never faint.Effective prayers of the righteous availeth much. Jas5:9......Jas5:15,16.
---ELENA on 5/1/12


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Karen: There are some diseases that never go away. Alcoholism is one of them. As long as I do not drink, I won't get drunk again. But, if someone slipped me a drink, it would lead to that uncontrollable urge coming back. Once an alcoholic has alcohol in their system, all bets are off.

If I stop going to AA, I am denying that I am powerless over alcohol, and denying that I need God's daily help to resist the temptation to drink again.

Most diabetics stay diabetics for the rest of their lives. Most people with Parkinson's disease have it for the rest of their lives. Alcoholics are alcoholics for the rest of their lives. Sober or drunk, they are always alcoholics, one drink away from being drunk.
---Trish on 5/1/12


\\Wondering at what point a Christian will finally say they are not an alcoholic.\\

OK. I'm not an alcoholic, and never have been one.

But alcoholism itself is not a choice. It's a DISEASE.

Drunkenness is a sin. Alcoholism, per se, is not.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


Wondering at what point a Christian will finally say they are not an alcoholic. Sick of hearing people call themselves these terms all the time. I'm also figuring that this couple are pastors for a non-denominational church. Most denominations would not allow him to pastor if his wife is a drunk.
---KarenD on 5/1/12


Cluny:

Perhaps the poster meant "jealous spirit" rather than "Jules spirit"?
---StrongAxe on 5/1/12


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tavares, one thing you will learn in Al-Anon is how to quit being your wife's enabler--that is, allowing her to continue her self-destructive behavior.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


Cluny: Thank you for pointing out the truth about alcoholism and alcoholics. Alcoholism is a disease because it is progressive and deadly. Alcoholics lie about their drinking, because of a defense mechanism called denial.

Alcoholics do not have a demon. They need medical help to detox from the alcohol. People die from detoxing without medical supervision. They also need professional treatment, like inpatient or outpatient rehab. After treatment, they need a support group of other recovering alcoholics, like AA or Celebrate Recovery.

AA is available almost everywhere. Celebrate Recovery is not as available. I have been to AA meetings in New York, Pittsburgh, Michigan, and of course Philadelphia.
---Trish on 5/1/12


Eloy: A person can be an alcoholic and be saved. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. I am an alcoholic, and I am saved. Don't even try to say I am not saved. You do not know my heart, only God does.

Also, nobody but the Holy Spirit of God can get someone saved. You should know that.

Stop spreading lies on the blogs.
---Trish on 5/1/12


I see two problems. One, the pastor's wife is an alcoholic and unsaved, which may cause various problems like this. And two, the Pastor needs to take action to get his wife saved, or else acknowledge the fact that she may destroy him and his sheep and his church if he does not put a stop to her.
---Eloy on 5/1/12


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Attend Alanon meetings and get some counseling for yourself to learn coping skills and to learn how to relate to your wife. Or, do an intervention, and get your wife into alcoholism treatment. Or, give your wife an ultimatum, treatment or separation.

All of the behavior you are describing is related to your wife's alcoholism. Once she gets sober, the other behaviors should lessen.

But, please do tell us, what is a Jules spirit?
---Trish on 5/1/12


What is a "Jules spirit"?

Is that one of these popular superstitions like "Jezebel spirit"?

Your wife is clearly an alcoholic--which is NOT a domen but a mental and physical disease. Hiding one's drinking, rather drunkeness, is one of the things that alcoholics do, frequently for years. They also lie about it.

What do you do? You seek help from Al-Anon. You are not the first one, or even first pastor (or for that matter, pastor's wife) to go through this.

BTW, if you were truly called to be a pastor, your wife would have her life in order.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/12


Jules spirit? What is that?
---KarenD on 5/1/12


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