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Was Jesus A Real Man

Was Christ a real man born of woman with the the holy spirit of God inside of him or was he already glorified when Mary carried him in the womb?

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 ---ginger on 5/2/12
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"You don't prove me wrong but mislead readers you have." marc

"...but mislead readers you have"?

Yoda is that you?
---scott on 5/11/12


Mark V. Excellently stated Christology.
---Catholicus on 5/10/12


David, I agree. Jesus is NOT the Father. He is the Son. He had a beginning, "This day have I begotten thee."(Psalms2:7) It just so happened that His "beginning" was before "our beginning." He was already with the Father even before "His works of old." He was "set up from everlasting, from the beginning.." (Pro.8:23)

So Ginger, while they are both mentioned as being "from everlasting", Jesus was begotten, but the bible never mentions that the Father had any beginning.

So the Word being in the beginning with God(Jhn1:1) concurs with what is in Prov.8:22-31
---jonweckl on 5/10/12


Wow, another person hiding behind a different name. Why hide? Is there shame to ask a question?

Jesus is 100% God and since He is, His Divine nature never lost His Glory. (John 17:5) is speaking of His incarnate human nature which is 100% man, the part of Him which dies on the Cross. 'It is finished' Jesus had just completed His work (v.4) Jesus looked past the cross and asked to be returned to the glory that He shared with the Father before the world began. His humanity was now going to join with the Father as they are both One.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/12


Hebrews 1
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
---micha9344 on 5/10/12




LoveGodLovePeople:

I had a nice apartment 20 years ago. I no longer have it.

I had my citizenship since I was born. I still have it.

The use of the word "had" implies "possessed it in the past". It does not necessarily also imply "no longer possesses it".



Cluny:

You said: A beaver BUILDS a dam, but begets little beavers.

This is true. Unfortunately, Word of Faith preachers use this reasoning to say that since God is our father, this makes us little gods.
---StrongAxe on 5/10/12


David,
What do you make of the first chapter in St. John then?
It says that Jesus was the word of God made flesh. It says that he was God also.
God is 3 parts of One God.
So even though Jesus was not known as Jesus before he put on flesh, he was in the beginning WITH God. That there was nothing made that he didn't make.
So how do you justify Christ not being in the beginning with God as part of God?
---ginger on 5/10/12


Scott: I notice you don't prove me wrong but mislead readers you have.

David: Jesus declares ''I am the First and Last'' (Rev 1:17)
Jesus or the Father declares ''I am the Alpha and the Omegathe First and Last.'' (Rev 22:13)
God Almighty declares himself ''I am the Alpha and the Omega.'' (Rev 1:8)
If Jesus is the First and Last, he must be the Alpha and Omega, according to the very words of Scripture.

How many 'First and Last's are there? How many 'Alpha and Omega's are there?
---Marc on 5/10/12


What trinit'arianism fails to recognise is that not only does it misrepresent the 'Father', but also the 'Son'. High Priests of this form of Arianism- Marc and Cluny's false-odoxy (although Cluny calls it 'orthodoxy') want us to believe the 'Son' is eternal just as the 'Father' is.

This false-odoxy belief negates the meaning of 'son'.

If the 'son' never had a beginning, how can he be called a 'son'? A 'son' by definition must have a beginning. This is so both physically and scripturally.

Gabriel said the child 'will be called holy, God's Son.' (Lu.1:35)

Jesus is not the creator nor is he 'the Alpha and Omega'. Neither is Jesus 'the Father'. Jesus was/is the 'Son of God', Lu.1:35- KJV/NIV/NAS/ASV...
---David8318 on 5/10/12


"He never lost His glory as some will suggest"

John 17:5
And now O Father glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was
---LoveGodLovePeople on 5/10/12




"For eternity, minus 6,000 years, God WAS NOT Father." (Again). marc

Wait patiently by your front door (possibly on a Saturday or Sunday morning). Ask the next person who stops by with a bible in their hand whether your (above) statement is true according to God's word.
---scott on 5/9/12


Scott,

Until you PROVE me wrong, rather than asserting I am, my point still stands.

JWs believe Michael aka Jesus was God's first-born, God's first creation. Therefore, God the Father only became the Father when he created his first-born, notwithstanding Cluny's very valid point.
---Marc on 5/9/12


\\"For eternity, minus 6,000 years, God WAS NOT Father.\\

I didn't know that God was affected by time.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/9/12


"For eternity, minus 6,000 years, God WAS NOT Father." marc

Hate to interrupt your vitriolic rant...but Jehovah's Witnesses (still) believe no such thing.

You should really check your facts if you want to be taken seriously.
---scott on 5/9/12


\\If Jesus (aka Michael) is the first created being, then the Father can't be Father until he created Jesus (aka Michael).\\

Actually, even THEN he can't be "father".

Someone MAKES or CREATES something different from himself. He BEGETS something like himself.

Examples: A man BUILDS a house, which has a different nature from himself, but he BEGETS children who are likewise human, with the name human nature.

A beaver BUILDS a dam, but begets little beavers.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/9/12


Cluny,There were other influential Arians like Eusebius of Nicomedia, distantly related to Constantine (actually baptized him)
The whole household of Constantine leaned to Arianism 'till Theodosius put an end to it.
The church was full of Arian haters, (the majority rules)
Historians like William Roan (Arius revised 1987.2002)give details.
---1st_cliff on 5/9/12


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ginger, since Jesus was also God, He was always glorified. He never lost His glory as some will suggest. In His humanity, He was all human with a spirit and a soul. If you want to discuss a subject on Jesus Christ, you have to indicate which of the two natures you are talking about. Most heretics try to mix One (His human nature) with the other (Godly nature) to proof a point they have against His Deity. What Mary carried was 100% God, 100% human.
---Mark_V. on 5/9/12


Scott,

If Jesus (aka Michael) is the first created being, then the Father can't be Father until he created Jesus (aka Michael). A sonless person, by definition, can't be a father until he has a son. Whether you want to admit it or not is irrelevant: it's the logical deduction from The Watchtower's invented, heretical theology.
---Marc on 5/8/12


\\He was known to be intellectually superior,and deplored,in his view, Christian theology being "freely mixed with pagan philosophy"\\

Since you say that the writings of Arius were destroyed, just how do you know what he thought about Christian theology, or how it was "mixed with pagan philosophy?"

Can you give any documentation of what Arius said or thought?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/8/12


\\Much of his education came from Lucian of Antioch (teacher and martyr)\\

And St. Lucian is considered a saint of the Church.

Too bad Arius didn't learn the right things from him.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/7/12


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Cluny,Constantine ordered the burning of Arius' writings (none are extant today)
He was known to be intellectually superior,and deplored,in his view, Christian theology being "freely mixed with pagan philosophy"
Much of his education came from Lucian of Antioch (teacher and martyr)
At the Synod of Tyre (335CE) He was "obviously" poisoned,by the description of his horrendous death (not to mention timely) as Alexander "wished" Arius would die before the meeting!
The "set up" was that it would resemble Devine intervention!
---1st_cliff on 5/7/12


"For eternity, minus 6,000 years, God WAS NOT Father." marc

Hate to interrupt your vitriolic rant...but Jehovah's Witnesses believe no such thing.

You should really check your facts if you want to be taken seriously.
---scott on 5/7/12


\\Cluny, At the council of Nicaea 325CE ,of the 250-300 Bishops who attended, \\

Wrong. There were 318 bishops.

\\it was a "set up"
Arius' writings were confiscated,\\

Wrong. He continued to write, preach, and spread his little ditties.

\\he was exiled (silenced)\\

Wrong. He continued to live in Alexandria, and he died there. You don't want to know how.

\\Some historians say he was threatened with death and some of his followers murdered!\\

And they are wrong, too, as Arianism continued for some time.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/7/12


As any good Watchtower-fearing JW will tell you, God the Father only BECAME Father when he created Michael the Archangel. That is, for eternity, minus 6,000 years, God WAS NOT Father. That is, for approximately all of eternity God was lacking something, namely, being Father.

Great theology!
---Marc on 5/6/12


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\\"Back to the Bible" has been the cry of every heretic from Arius onward...
The classic creeds are....summaries of faith for believers, not for non-believers\\
---Cluny on 5/5/12

I agree 100%. The creeds give a believer a bite-sized run-down. But, shouting a creed at a heretic only makes him more antagonistic, and further entrenches him in his ignorance.

That's why I say a heretic must be defeated by scripture.

back to the bible? Let's meet them there, and battle with that which is sharper than a two-edged sword
---James_L on 5/6/12


\\"Back to the Bible" has been the cry of every heretic from Arius onward...
The classic creeds are....summaries of faith for believers, not for non-believers\\
---Cluny on 5/5/12

I agree 100%. The creeds give a believer a bite-sized run-down. But, shouting a creed at a heretic only makes him more antagonistic, and further entrenches him in his ignorance.

That's why I say a heretic must be defeated by scripture.

back to the bible? Let's meet them there, and battle with that which is sharper than a two-edged sword
---James_L on 5/6/12


Cluny, At the council of Nicaea 325CE ,of the 250-300 Bishops who attended, not one was Jewish (He was anti-Semitic) it was a "set up"
Arius' writings were confiscated,he was exiled (silenced) Some historians say he was threatened with death and some of his followers murdered!
Freedom of religion did not exist in those days!
Like Hitler is reputed to have said "Might is right"!
Theocracy does not equate with democracy!
Arius was railroaded, the majority rules!
---1st_cliff on 5/6/12


\\Arianism is defeated by scripture, not through creeds,
---James_L on 5/5/12\\

"Back to the Bible" has been the cry of every heretic from Arius onward.

The classic creeds are distillations of what the Bible teaches. They are summaries of faith for believers, not for non-believers, as the Psalmist sang: "I believed, and therefore I spoke."

**He knew the ridiculous doctrine of Jesus being His own Father ,or His own Son,praying to himself!**

This is a parody of what true Christianity teaches.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/5/12


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"Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him, who had the power of death, that is, the devil," (Hebrews 2:14) So, Jesus did come in flesh and blood, like a man, so He could share in what we go through . . . "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15) So, Jesus came so He can share with us, but without sharing in our sin.
---willie_c: on 5/5/12


In other words, you are saying you are an Arian, not a Christian.

\\They ganged up on him and silenced him just as Jesus had predicted (wolves in sheep's clothing)\\

And who is the "they" who ganged up on Arius? How did they silence him?

Can you tell me, please?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/5/12


Scott it is evasive of you to say JW's beleive Jesus was "The Son" before He came to earth. By "The Son" you surely do not mean what the unsuspecting think you mean! We all know a son of a man is equal in substance to his father. Scripture calls Jesus "the Son of God" as we know what this means, that the Son of God is equal, and one with The Father, therefore He is God. As God knows what we know and think why would He call Him "The Son" with its obvious connotations, if it were not true?

Of course Jesus is God, sharing the names/titles of The Creator, The Redeemer, The Saviour, and the Alpha and the Omega etc with the Father. How many Creators, Redeemers and Saviours etc are there in your fable?
---Warwick on 5/5/12


"People here stoop to agumenta ad hominem when they cannot actually answer the objections made." Cluny

Objections? Your assertion (before you introduced the "Michael" red-herring into the discussion) was that JWs don't believe that Jesus was "The Son" before coming to earth. (5/4/12)

Were you right or wrong? (Proverbs 16:18)
---scott on 5/5/12


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/1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. ---aka on 5/4/12//

A Big...

AMEN.
---char on 5/5/12


Arius was shot down because he had the right picture,
not because he was a heretic!
They ganged up on him and silenced him just as Jesus had predicted (wolves in sheep's clothing)
Jesus said "you will be hated" and he is/was!
He knew the ridiculous doctrine of Jesus being His own Father ,or His own Son,praying to himself!
He knew Jesus never lied when He said "Our Father in heaven" when he was standing right in front of them!
Keep the belief "sensible"!
---1st_cliff on 5/5/12


\\He falsely accuses JWs for not believing that the Son of God was the Son before coming to earth. But when his accusation is exposed as unequivocally false, low and behold, now suddenly the subject has shifted to Michael. Fascinating, yet par for the course.\\

It's interesting how people here stoop to agumenta ad hominem when they cannot actually answer the objections made.

I have seen in JW literature where they say that Michael was incarnate--NOT the eternal Son of God--and known as Jesus.

And even though jesus said He rose from the dead in a physical body, JWs say the body "dissolved into gases."

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/5/12


----He wasn't even the Son before His incarnation----

\\This is the heresy of Arianism...\\
---Cluny on 5/4/12


No, sir. I am well aqcuainted with the Arian heresy, but do not espouse it.

Jesus is the Word of God become flesh, not the Son of God become flesh.

If you go back to the OT, a son primarily denoted "heir". God said of the Christ "I WILL BE a Father to Him, and He WILL BE a Son to Me." (Hebrews 1:5)

Jesus is the Word of God from everlasting, God of very God, not dispute here.

He became heir to the Kingdom - The Son of the King.

Arianism is defeated by scripture, not through creeds,
---James_L on 5/5/12


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I dont know you believe Michael is Christ.
But to me the word is very clear!
Michael cannot be Christ!

Jud_1:9 Yet Michael the archangel
said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon.
That old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan!

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb.

Two very different people!
Well to me, I see two very different people!
But, God bless you all for believing in something greater then yourselves

Unlike some who says, there is no God!
But even this makes you stronger.

I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians, both to the wise, and to the unwise.

Peace
---TheSeg on 5/4/12


Perhaps Cluny should consider a career in politics.

He falsely accuses JWs for not believing that the Son of God was the Son before coming to earth. But when his accusation is exposed as unequivocally false, low and behold, now suddenly the subject has shifted to Michael. Fascinating, yet par for the course.

If you hurry, I believe there is still time left to give Romney and/or Obama a run for there money. You definitely have what it takes.
---scott on 5/4/12


Here we go with the name calling.
Because one believes this and one believe that.

Yet, when I ask a simple question?
Most say, no!
Why, because you dont believe it.

Yet, here is Jacob wrestled a man.
Who changes his name from Jacob to Israel!
Something Christ does a lot.
And here is Israel calling this man, God!

In Mal_3:6 God talking says:
For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Isa_43:10 says:
Ye are my witnesses, I have chosen!
I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa_43:11!

In Isa_44:8 God ask:
Is there a God beside me?
Yea, there is no God, I know not any!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/4/12


\\Not sure who "JfWs" are but if you're referring to JWs you are ill-informed. Jehovah's Witnesses both believe and teach that the Son of God was certainly the Son of God before coming to earth to sacrifice his life on behalf of mankind.\\

JfWs = Jehovah's False Witnesses.

They teach that Jesus was Michael the Archangel, a created being.

This is the heresy of Arianism.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/4/12


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Scott, as usual I smell evasion in your words.

Scripture describes Jesus as Son of man, which He is being flesh, born of Mary-100% human.

But Scripture also describes Him as the Son of God which means He is God, equal in substance with the Father. That Scripture also describes Jesus as the God, The Creator, The redeemer, The Saviour, and the Alpha and the Omega (all names/titles) of God means He is also God-100% God. This you do not accept.
---Warwick on 5/4/12


"This is the heresy of Arianism, which the JfWs and SDAs cling to." Cluny

Not sure who "JfWs" are but if you're referring to JWs you are ill-informed. Jehovah's Witnesses both believe and teach that the Son of God was certainly the Son of God before coming to earth to sacrifice his life on behalf of mankind.

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify this for you, no doubt you would like your accusations of heresy to have some small ring of truth.
---scott on 5/4/12


\\He wasn't even the Son before His incarnation\\

This is the heresy of Arianism, which the JfWs and SDAs cling to.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/4/12


Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone, and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh, and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Who is this man?
Seeing as it, cant be the Lord our God!
Peace!
---TheSeg on 5/4/12


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1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

most things that we speculate about remains a mystery despite our wonderful human logic.
---aka on 5/4/12


\\Christ could have simply come down and appear as flesh. Why did God use Mary?
Has anyone ever thought about why?\\
---ginger on 5/3/12

Had he come through a Christophany, He would not have redeemed OUR flesh (1Cor 15, 1st Adam vs 2nd Adam) We are "saved" (resurrected) by His life (resurrection) Romans 5:10


\\...when he walked this earth.
Before that He was the Son/Logos/Word. NOT Jesus.\\
---ginger on 5/3/12

He wasn't even the Son before His incarnation. He BECAME the Son. You need to investigate the Old Testament significance of the son as it pertained to an inheritance. Jesus is God's HEIR. We "have the power to become" sons, or joint-heirs, through suffering with Him
---James_L on 5/4/12


\\Again, I understand that Jesus was a fleshly man 100% and God 100% when he walked this earth.\\

Jesus is STILL 100% man and 100% God. He never did or will shed His human nature which He assumed at the Incarnation.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/4/12


Seq, Hebrews 10:5 convinces me that Jesus did not have a body until He came into the world "Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me,"
---Warwick on 5/4/12


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Seg, Before Jesus came here as a man, He was not a man.
John 1:1 says that he was the word, the Logos. He was not know to us as Jesus.

Peter, I asked this question because some one here seem to think that Jesus was not a man born of a woman when he walked this earth and we got to see him. They think he was a created being like Adam and Eve were. That is not what scripture says. Scripture says he was begotten by God. Begotten is different from being created.
---ginger on 5/4/12


Now the question to you is:
Before Christ, walked the earth was he a man, 100% human and 100% God?
Yes or no. Simple!
---TheSeg on 5/3/12


Ginger: I am not sure what you mean by the question.

Jesus had all the problems of a man, yes, and all the temptations to sin, but He had the Spirit of God to protect Him - which we would have, too, if we did not sin.
---Peter on 5/3/12


Seg

"THe vessels of honor in this chapter are the Israelites"
This was a mistype, a typing error on my part. I meant to say vessels of dishonor.
And in that chapter Romans 9, Paul is talking about Israel being vessels of dishonor.
Seg, why don't you understand that Jesus' fleshly body was descended from King David, thus Jesus in the flesh was a Jew?
Also, In Romans 9 it says tha same lump. It says nothing of 2 differnt lumps. That means God made something new out of something old. Something of honor OUT OF something of dishonor.
Again, I understand that Jesus was a fleshly man 100% and God 100% when he walked this earth.
Before that He was the Son/Logos/Word. NOT Jesus.
---ginger on 5/3/12


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Sorry Ginger, but in: Good Tree No Evil Fruit

When you wrote:
THe vessels of honor in this chapter are the Israelites who don't believe Jesus. Jesus is the vessel of honor made from the same lump.
The lump Is the nation of Israel.
ginger on 4/26/12


I wrote:
Ginger, I'm a little confused here.
You said: Jesus is the vessel of honor made from the same lump.

Made of the same lump?
Or better said, made?
TheSeg on 4/26/12


Then you answered:
Also Seg,
What Jesus says in John 8, He's refering to the Spirit of God inside of him, not his fleshly body.
Remember, Jesus fleshly body was made of clay. His spirit was of God, Holy Spirit!
ginger on 4/27/12

You See?
---TheSeg on 5/3/12


\\I dont believe anyone here, so far in this blog, is claiming that Jesus is the Archangel Michael incarnate.\\

francis has done so, and perhaps jerry believes this.

This is the teaching of the SDA.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/3/12


Why did God use Mary?

Why does a 5 year old go to work with is dad. Because he helps in an important action, no. Because the father loves the son/daughter and he/she gets to, same with our Father God. Mary just got an awesome job.
---Scott1 on 5/3/12


Seg,
What are you talking about?
When I first said something about Jesus being a man, you said he wasn't.
I said he was 100% man and 100% God.
I have never said Jesus didn't come here in the flesh.
He did. The same kind of flesh we are. Cluny gives a wonderful description and so does Mark Eaton. These 2 men have helped me the most on the subject. You have done nothing but falsly accuse me. How does that help what you are trying to present?
---ginger on 5/3/12


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I dont believe anyone here, so far in this blog, is claiming that Jesus is the Archangel Michael incarnate.

But whether or not, Christ was spirit or a man before Mary gave birth to Jesus!
When Ginger wrote, (know Christ existed in spirit at the beginning.)
Mean, she does not believe, he was a flesh and bones, man!

John_1:30 write:
This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a (man) which is preferred before me: (for he was before me.)
This is saying Christ is a man!.

For anyone to say Christ had to put on human flesh.
Is saying Christ was not 100% human, before Mary!
Mal_3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not!

You make sense of this!
Peace out
---TheSeg on 5/3/12


Thanks Cluny.
I understand what you are saying.

Could you get Seg to understand this too.
He keeps trying to tell me that Christ existed before he was a man, and I already know that.
We aren't talking about that.
It seems that Seg denies the truth about why God used Mary.
Christ could have simply come down and appear as flesh. Why did God use Mary?
Has anyone ever thought about why?

James, I know Christ is risen and he is alive and at the right hand of God.
But it is not the here and now I am talking about. I am asking what he was before his resurrection.
While he was here with us.
---ginger on 5/3/12


ginger, I think you are groping your way towards correct Chalcedonian Christology.

Yes, Jesus is 100% human--but also 100% God, united in ONE Person with two complete perfect natures, human and divine.

But He did not merely have the "holy spirit of God inside of him". That is the heresy of Adoptionism, or possibly classical Nestorianism (which the Assyrian Church of the East no longer believes today, btw).

But these are matters that cannot profitably be discussed before people who cling to the Arian heresy, claiming that Jesus is the Archangel Michael incarnate.

And it would take more than 125 words to explain fully.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/2/12


Was Christ a real man...
---ginger


Are you saying Jesus was not Deity?
---JIM


Jesus was God in the flesh.
---Jed


I am saying he was 100% flesh like us and 100% God.
---ginger


I believe Jesus was fully man and fully God
---Mark_Eaton


I wish believers would stop referring to Jesus as "WAS". Do you not believe that HE IS ???


Here is some good stuff:


The Son/Logos is eternal....
Christ is risen!
---Cluny
---James_L on 5/2/12


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This is why! Ginger, you said:
I am saying God used her to create the fleshly body for Jesus.
I know Christ existed in spirit at the beginning. Not what I am talking about, though.
Seg, no matter how you slice it God used Mary to have, BEGOT, the fleshly body of Christ. Christ's body was not created as adam and eve were. He was born of a woman.

In this blog:
Before he walked in flesh like ours, he existed.
Just, not as a man!

Then you talk about, John 1:14:
Saying:
he put on flesh like ours and we beheld his glory.
Seg says it was not like ours.

Because, our flesh has no glory!
as of the only begotten of the Father!
---TheSeg on 5/2/12


Jesus emptied himself spiritually when he became flesh.He was 100%man. When his father rose him again he was exalted more so then when he was originally with his father.However when on earth he was fully human.everything he did came from his father.
---Candice on 5/2/12


Jesus was, is, and always will be 100% glory, even before he created the world, and Jesus was, is, and always will be 100% God Almighty, even before he created Mary and her womb.
---Eloy on 5/2/12


atheist, we are not talking about that kind of glorified. We are talking about the body given to Christ. when we say glory in this sense it is the form or shape of something, not the praise of something, okay.
Just trying to clarify the discussion so the thread does not get derailed.
---ginger on 5/2/12


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hello,this is ELENA.. To the athiest,we are Not to ever give NO glory what so ever to anyone but,the Lord God!1Ch16:24,chap16:28,29:11 we owe our very breath,existence to a mercifull Holy God Heavenly Father is loving and forgiving... My prayers continue for you always! we are huge family...and you are always welcome...thankyou,God bless you... :) HE IS LORD! I love Him... He Loves you,too!
---ELENA on 5/2/12


Being glorified is something people do to other people or things---what's the point?
---atheist on 5/2/12


Jesus is son of man, fully man as was Ezekiel for example, whom God calls "son of man" throught the book of Ezekiel e.g. 20:4.

Hebrews Chapter 2 shows Jesus is man "Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil" vs 14.

Hebrews 10:5 "Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,.....a body have you prepared for me,"

See 1 John 5 Jesus is the Son of God.

As to His flesh He is man, to His spirit He is God. "God is spirit, ...." John 4:24
---Warwick on 5/2/12


\\ He did not begin at human conception like the rest of us.\\

His human nature did.

\\ The Bible is clear that Jesus has always existed from before the foundations of the world.\\

The Son/Logos is eternal, but He was not known as Jesus until incarnate in the womb of the Virgin Mary. (He was never Michael the Archangel, btw.)

Since the Incarnation, what He does in His divine nature, He does in His human nature, and vice versa.

The Holy Spirit of God is the THIRD person of the Holy Trinity, not the Second.

Scott, "hypostatic union" comes from Greek, though Latin may have borrowed it. (Greek: "hypostasis"=person.)

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/2/12


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Mark Eaton,
WOW!! I had never thought about that and I know the story of Moses well. It is one of my favorites.
But you are right. Christ would not have been able to come here in his original glory(form) because it would have destroyed her.
He would have had to change his glory(form) and put on our flesh
Thank you so much!!
---ginger on 5/2/12


Ginger:

I believe Jesus was fully man and fully God and was born of a woman from the Holy Spirit.

However, I believe that God's glory was the one of the things that Jesus emptied of himself when He came to Earth as told to us in Phil 2:7.

As Moses found out in Exodus 33, no man in this frail human body can see God's face and God's glory. It will kill us.

The glory of God within Jesus would certainly have killed Mary if Jesus had emptied Himself of it.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/2/12


1scott, that was spot on!! Amen!

No Jim I am not saying Christ was not a deity. I am saying he was 100% flesh like us and 100% God.

Before he walked in flesh like ours, he existed. But John 1:14 says he put on flesh like ours and we beheld his glory.
Flesh like ours. So at this particular time, he was like us.
Seg says it was not like ours.
The Bible says it was.
He does not seem to understand that Christ had to have flesh like ours to be the perfect sacrifice for sin, to be tempted and still not sin.
I bet Seg didn't even read the scripture I posted that said Christ would be like us. It was prophecied in Isaiah that he would be born of Judah an Israelite but special. God in the flesh.
---ginger on 5/2/12


Jesus was God in the flesh. 100% God and 100% man. He did not begin at human conception like the rest of us. The Bible is clear that Jesus has always existed from before the foundations of the world. The Bible tells us that Jesus was an active participant in all of creation, and that nothing in creation was made without him.
---Jed on 5/2/12


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I say both due to hypostatic union. This is a Latin term (I think) that Jesus while on earth was both God and human thus He operated in God power and in human power. For example he could forgive sin, which only God can do. Another example is that He was tempted by Satan which is his human form. Talking about the womb John the Baptist jumped in the presence of God when Mary and Elizabeth saw each other.
---Scott1 on 5/2/12


Joh 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying,

I have both glorified it!
And will glorify it again!

Joh 12:29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

Joh 12:30 Jesus answered and said,

This voice came not because of me,
but for your sakes!
---TheSeg on 5/2/12


ginger...Are you saying Jesus was not Deity?
---JIM on 5/2/12


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