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Freedom And Liberty In Christ

Scripture teaches we have FREEDOM and LIBERTY in CHRIST.

There are some organizations like Seventh Day Adventist and others who do not allow individual congregations the FREEDOM and LIBERTY to decide what will be taught, but dictates what will be taught and when.

What are your thoughts?

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 ---Rob on 5/8/12
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Always twisting the Word of God to help promote a false doctrine...
You elevate the Jewish Sabbath above man.
The continuation of the verse is "not man for the sabbath".
Context, francis, context...
---micha9344 on 5/18/12


start showing some scriptures for those things you post.

I am not the only one with a bible?

I am constantly answering questions and giving reference texts, where are your?

You do not think that christians should keep sabbath show it.

You think jesus is the sabbath show it.

You think we should only keep 9/10 show that Jesus lied when he said not one or tittle shall pass away.
---francis on 5/18/12


Jesus was a Jew. He had to keep the Jewish Sabbath
---micha9344 on 5/18/12

There is no such thing as Jewish sabbath. The sabbath is called: The sabbath of the LORD thy God: Exodus 20:10

The bible says: The sabbath was made for man, Mark 2:27

The bible also says:
1 Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man.

Now, I say if MAN means JEW, then please leave the women to the Jew in the same manner as you leave the sabbath to the Jews
---francis on 5/18/12


HOW CAN YOU OWN A BIBLE AND LET FOOLS DECEIVE YOU?

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger (NON-JEW), that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people:..Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Also the sons of the stranger ( NON-JEW), that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE ( JEW AND NON-JEW) that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,
---francis on 5/18/12


Jesus was a Jew. He had to keep the Jewish Sabbath prescribed to Israel to 'fulfill all righteousness'
This same covenant is 'old' ready to be 'cast away', but for the remnant of Israel yet to have their promises fulfilled.
The 'sign' of this 'old' covenant was the keeping of seventh day of 'rest".
The sign of the covenant made with Abraham was 'circumcision', which was not passed to the Church.
So, if the sign of the covenant with our father Abraham is not passed, what makes a person think the sign of the covenant the Bible calls 'old' is passed?
---micha9344 on 5/18/12




francis, as Warwick sometimes says, you are trying to avoid answering, show one passage where God commanded man that the Sabbath was on Saturday. You have this great faith, and wisdom, and teach others to do so, but cannot provide one passage. At least show one passage where God said He started creation on Sunday and rested on Saturday. You should be able to do one or the other if you believe that to be the case. If you can find one passage I will say you are correct.
---Mark_V. on 5/18/12


francis, you didn't show where God commanded us to keep Saturday as the Sabbath.
Of course Jesus went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day
---Mark_V. on 5/17/12

And by your wisdom, you do not think that this sabbath which our lord observed is on the same day which SDA observe it?
---francis on 5/17/12


Francis said "It is you who are making a bog deal about ONE of the commandments, as I have said before all ten are in the Nt we need to keep all ten"

But Francis is guilty of ALL 10 of the commandments, (James 2:10).

Israel also followed after the law, similar to the SDAs, and failed to attain righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith but by works of the law instead (Rom 9:32).

Christ is the END of the law, FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Francis, stop pushing for righteousness by works of the law.
Believe on Jesus instead.
---Haz27 on 5/17/12


---lee1538 on 5/17/

Sorry lee1538 there is no such thing as gentile church

CHURCH IS ONE

THEY ALL KEPT THE SABBATH
---francis on 5/17/12


francis, you didn't show where God commanded us to keep Saturday as the Sabbath.
Of course Jesus went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day the Jews observed, Jesus was under the Law. And where would you find Jews to talk to? In a synogogue, on the same day SDA's worship just like the Jews who were under the Law. Where else could we find all of you worshipping? But you can find us worshipping God on Sunday, just as all believers who are in Christ now. But to set things right, Christ lives in us, and we really worship Him everyday but meet as a group on Sundays. For He will never leave us. When we walk in, Christ is present. If we walk out, Christ is not present. It becomes an empty building.
---Mark_V. on 5/17/12




---Mark_V. on 5/17/12
Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Jesus was in the habit of going to synagogue every sabbath day.
This is the very same day of the week whcih SDA go to church.

By saying that we cannot prove that sabbath is saturday (7th day) You are either saying that: (1) People have lost track of time and days of the week or (2) Jesus was confused and may have habilually gone to synagogue on the wrong day

Which are you saying?
Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Lord of the sabbath did not know when sabbath was, or time lost?
---francis on 5/17/12


//It is you who are making a bog deal about ONE of the commandments, as I have said before all ten are in the Nt we need to keep all ten.

While TRUE, only 9 of the 10 commandments are listed as COMMANDS in the New Testament.

And in the listings of sins, to break any of them except the Sabbath is listed as a sin.

The Adventist can only show where the early Jewish Christians continued to observe the Jewish Sababth as well as everything else in the Mosaic tradition including circumcision, but they are unable to show any verse that even implied the Gentile church observed the Sabbath.
---lee1538 on 5/17/12


You only care about one of the Ten Commandments ---Mark_V. on 5/17/12

says you?
It is you who are making a bog deal about ONE of the commandments, as I have said before all ten are in the Nt we need to keep all ten

You seem to think 9/10 so you are the one making a big deal about 1
---francis on 5/17/12


francis, you cannot escape your own sin. You break the commandments of God all the time. If you didn't you would not need a Mediator to speak on your behalf. You could stand before God on your own if you were perfect and pure, but all fall short of the glory of God. You only care about one of the Ten Commandments and even then you cannot provide one passage where God said that Saturday was the seventh day Sabbath, or that He begin creation on Sunday and finished friday and rested on Saturday. One commandment you care about and you cannot provide any proof.
---Mark_V. on 5/17/12


THE POINT IS LOVE

God's LAW is based on LOVE
God's character is LOVE
God's disciples are known by their LOVE

The LAW that you detest, think is bondage, think is work is a reflecion of the character of God.

When we keep the laws / commandments of God we reflect his character

Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds,

Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
---francis on 5/16/12


The point is useless and nearing blasphemy if it involves using God's Word to support man's doctrines.
---micha9344 on 5/16/12


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---micha9344 on 5/16/12
You missed the point totally.
1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and LOVE one another, as he gave us commandment.

---Mark_V. on 5/16
When Adam sinned , he broke the first commandments. By yielding to satan, he made satan his god.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey,
---francis on 5/16/12


The law is spiritual to those who are in Christ. The law is physical works to those who are not in Christ. ---Mark_V. on 5/15/12

The ten commandments are actualy passive. They require you to do nothing.
Most of then say do not, do not, do not. Once says to hold you parents in high regard, which does not require you to do anything physical, and one ( the one most people seem take issue with) requires you to actualy STOP PHYSICAL WORK and rest

Anyone who finds the ten commandments to be physical works is not yet converted
---francis on 5/16/12


It's sad how people pull out verses without context just to support their own brand of theology and doctrine.
Prior to 1John 4 or 5, we read this..
1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Is this not what John is writing about when speaking of commandments?
Why do some autmatically go to the Jewish Pentateuch for their law and commandment interpretations?
Maybe the answer lies at the source of their foundation, which may not be Christ.
---micha9344 on 5/16/12


Francis, you continue to say, this are the Ten Commandment's. Unless specified, Ten Commandments, the breaking of God's commandments is any sin. Anything God tells us to do and we don't do, we break His commandment. Adam broke the commandment of God, to not eat of the tree, he sinned. When God says, do not go there and you go there, you break the commandment of God. When you can give to the poor and don't, you break the commandment. Any sin is the breaking of the commandments of God. You try to pin the Ten Commandments so that you can say, "Here, you broke one" while you are holy and pure others are not, only because you are an SDA. No other reason. You are wrong francis. You break many commandments everyday so does everyone else.
---Mark_V. on 5/16/12


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The law is spiritual to those who are in Christ. The law is physical works to those who are not in Christ. ---Mark_V. on 5/15/12

1 John 5:3 For this is the LOVE of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 4:8 God is LOVE.

Matthew 22:37 LOVE the Lord thy God. LOVE thy neighbour. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

God Laws are founded on his CHARACTER: LOVE! which is a SPIRITUAL CHARACTER

It cannot be a burden, or physical work. is it as God says it is: Isaiah 58:13 a delight

If it is a burden or work for you, you are not in christ, and christ is not in you
BOTTOM LINE!!!!!
---francis on 5/15/12


According to our understanding we worship.
Many smaller churches are imposing their own doctrines. The 'leaders' express what they believe they have been led to impart. Some is beneficial, some is speculative.
The individual depending on what stage of growth they are, will have to be the one to decide where they should be.
Maybe some 'leaders' feel their authority or 'power' is being impinged on if others express open zeal for God through 'unacceptable' means, thereby exposing flaws in the leaders 'ideology'.
When leaders make worship a formality, i.e. getting in and out then rush home to watch the game, that is not truth or dedication.
---Jesudan on 5/15/12


The law is spiritual to those who are in Christ. The law is physical works to those who are not in Christ. ---Mark_V. on 5/15/12

Romans 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:

In the context of which Paul is talking, the law here referrs to the law of the ten commandments.

So are you saying that thou shall not covet is an old testement law not to obey by believers?
---francis on 5/15/12


If you continue in the law, you are cursed, ---Mark_V. on 5/15/

Mark_V says if I do these I am cursed:

1: have no other gods before me.
2: not make unto thee any graven image..
3: not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
4: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5: Honour thy father and thy mother:
6: not kill.
7: not commit adultery.
8: not steal.
9: not bear false witness.
10: not covet

GOD SAYS: Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Check your CONTEXT Mark_V
---francis on 5/15/12


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Francis said: "those living in sin are in bondage"

BUT, its SDAs who live in sin, being in bondage to the law. Being under the law makes you a transgressor/sinner (Gal 2:18) and as SDAs fail to obey the law they are guilty of all (James 2:10).

Gal 5:1 warns not to be "entangled again with the yoke of bondage".
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace." Gal 5:4
Gal 5:9 warns "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump."
This warning is about the likes of SDA's leaven (doctrine) of works.

Christians instead are free,"led of the Spirit," thus "not under the law". Gal 5:18.
---Haz27 on 5/15/12


francis, here is your reasoning, you say,
"1: For we know that the law is spiritual: Romans 7:14"
The law is spiritual to those who are in Christ. The law is physical works to those who are not in Christ. And you demand for everyone to be in the physical by giving Old Testament laws, when you just posted that the law is spiritual to all believers. How do you reconcile your very words? In order to argue you keep giving the written letter of the law, and you know anyone under that law is cursed. (Gal. 3:10-12). "The just shall live by faith" If you continue in the law, you are cursed, "but that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God"
You can live under the law, its your right.
---Mark_V. on 5/15/12


---Rob on 5/14/12
Be careful with your foolishness. Jehovah has said in his Holy Scripture that His sabbath and none of his laws put any one in bondage:

Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath..my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight,

Numbers 28:25 on the seventh day ye shall have an holy convocation, ye shall do no servile work.

1 John 5:3 His commandments are not grievous.

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Only those living in sin are in bondage, those obedient to the laws of God are free

Psalms 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
---francis on 5/14/12


Francis, you wrote Mark V's post are worthless.

This is what I expect to hear from a servant of Satan, who hates God's Truth.

You say you keep all 10 Commandments which is a proven lie.

Like Satan, you want to put others in bodage and say they must keep the Sabath on Saturdays and must obstain from eating certain foods.

This clearly goes against what is written in Colosians Chapter Two and 1 Timothy 4:1-5.
---Rob on 5/14/12


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Mark_V. on 5/14/12
Your post is worthless

1: For we know that the law is spiritual: Romans 7:14
So those who obey the law are engages in spiritual activities
2: You keep 9/10
commandments. Why do you think that only those who
keep 10/10 are under the law?
3: Although christ took my death on the cross the bible still comands all believers to keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:12

Your post seem to be a post of one who has not read scriptures at all
---francis on 5/14/12


francis, I wish you would answer for yourself. Your denomination has you in bondage, and won't let you go forward. You insist to live in the physical, the written letter of the law, and refuse to go forward, in the Spirit of the law which is Christ. You know Christ took your place on the physical, to free you from the law you could not keep yourself by your works, yet want to remain under the letter of the law. That's why you give James, that a person doing Saturday Sabbath, is doing good works. Jesus is our Sabbath, and will always be our Sabbath. But you don't like that, you want to do the works of the Sabbath. How can you remain under the law when you know the Spirit of the law? You want the works of the law to get into the kingdom of God.
---Mark_V. on 5/14/12


CORRECTION
In determining which laws would be in the New Covenant, facilitating fellowship was not a consideration. What better way to facilate fellowship with jews than by circumcision?

The only consideration were the covenants that would be brought to an end by the death on Jesus.

These included:
the covenant made with Adam and Eve: The killing of the lamb, and the promoise of the death of the Messiah for their sins Genesis 3:15 thou shalt bruise his heel.

CIrcumcision: The blood covenant made with Abraham that all nations would be blessed from his seed.

Covenants which were not made with blood, but established only on the word of God cannot come to an end. These include the rainbow and all ten commandments
---francis on 5/13/12


In determining which laws would be in the New Covenant, facilitating fellowship was not a consideration. What beter was to facilate fellowship with jews than by circumcision?

The only consideration were the covenants that would be brought to an end by the death on Jesus.

These included:
the covenant made with Adam and Eve: The killing of the lamb, and the promoise of the death of the Messiah for their sins Genesis 3:15 thou shalt bruise his heel.

CIrcumcision: The blood covenant made with Abraham that all nations would be blessed from his seed.

Covenants which were not made with blood, but established only on the word of God cannot come to an end. These include the rainbow and all ten commandments
---francis on 5/13/12


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Rob, you have to have order in an assembly in church. You cannot have a room of people wher each person proposes to talk about a different topic. Therefore we preachers and teachers create a common syllablus on what subject we will cover when we gather together.
---Eloy on 5/13/12


Circumcision is a blood covenant, given as a covenant sign that all nations would be bless through the seed of Abraham.
Jesus Christ being the seed of Abraham through which all nations would be blessed, having died for the sins of all nations, it was no longer nessessary to continue with circumcision.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 5:11 if I yet preach circumcision,...then is the offence of the cross ceased.
---francis on 5/13/12


---StrongAxe on 5/12/12
Gal3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law ( OF MOSES since the law of the preisthod is the law of Moses)

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant HAD also ordinances of divine service ( reference to the sacrifices),
Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats ( OFFERINGS) and drinks ( OFFERINGS)

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
seperating circumcision from 10 commandments
---francis on 5/13/12


//There is a reason why christians no longer have to be circumcised, but have to abstain from things strangled.

It has nothing to do with " fellowship with jews."
----
Totally WRONG!

The conflict between Jews and Gentiles is well known. Ever read of the rebuke Paul gave Peter when they were in Antioch? Peter separated himself from the Gentiles when the Jews from Jerusalem showed up? Read Galatians 2.

Your determination to promote OT sabbath keeping really prevents you from seeing the truth.
---lee1538 on 5/13/12


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francis:

Since you are asking for scriptures, do YOU have any scriptures that say that one specific tiny subset of the Law of Moses (i.e. that dealing with blood sacrifices) is done away with, but the rest is still fully in force?
---StrongAxe on 5/12/12


There is a reason why christians no longer have to be circumcised, but have to abstain from things strangled.

It has nothing to do with " fellowship with jews."

There is a reason why christians no longer have to make sacrifices, but cannot worship idols.
---francis on 5/12/12


Jewish believers continued to observe OT laws concerning blood and Gentile believers were admonished to respect those Mosaic beliefs in order to facilitate fellowship. There was always a fictional problem between Gentiles and Jews even if both were Christians.
---lee1538 on 5/12/12
have you any scriptures for that sir?

This seems contrary to your stance against circumcision.

Would it not also be that Gentile believers would be circumcised and were admonished to respect those Mosaic beliefs in order to facilitate fellowship?

Why follow one part of the " mosaic law" to keep fellowship and not another?

Keep in mind ACTS 21 where Moses did not teach jews to forsake Moses and circumcision
---francis on 5/12/12


//How then did the disciples know that men with men was against the law in the NT Romans 1:27.

There are several NT scriptures that forbid sexual immorality. If you ever get around to reading the New Testament you would be able to see that. Read Romans 1.

//How did they know that eating blood and things strangled was against the law in the NT, but being uncircumsized was not against the law in the NT.

Jewish believers continued to observe OT laws concerning blood and Gentile believers were admonished to respect those Mosaic beliefs in order to facilitate fellowship. There was always a fictional problem between Gentiles and Jews even if both were Christians.
---lee1538 on 5/12/12


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Strone Axe, it took many years, but I am thankful I have found a place of Worship and study where the leaders are held accountable.

There have been times when Elders have been removed because they were teaching things which clearly went against what is found in scripture.

These Elders along with others left the conregation when they learned unbiblical teaching is not, and will not be tolerated.
---Rob on 5/12/12


Wow! Thanks Strongaxe ...and everyone, I was not aware of any of this. You have certain cleared up much more for me! Thankyou,I spoke to my pastor where I attend. he explain to me they sit with the person and explain in detail all their constitution of their church but,If the person does not agree then they are free NOT to become member of the church.
---ELENA on 5/12/12


ELENA:

Churches can't be forced to accept members. They are required to obey labor laws when hiring employees, although they CAN impose religious tests with regards to ministers and teachers. For example, a Catholic church can't demand its janitors be Catholic, but it CAN demand its priest be Catholic. Their tax-exempt status does, however, require that they not try to influence the electoral process. So while they can teach on issues (e.g. divorce is wrong), they can't endorse or condemn candidates (e.g. don't vote for John Doe - he's divorced) or parties (e.g. don't vote Democrat - they support divorce).



Rob:

It is fine as long as the leaders are accountable - which, unfortunately, is not always the case.
---StrongAxe on 5/11/12


They however, cherry pick what laws are required of Christians in contrary to what was decreed by the church at the Jerusalem council Acts 15.
---lee1538 on 5/11/

LOL LOL LOL
This will stump you
How then did the disciples know that men with men was against the law in the NT Romans 1:27.
How did they know that eating blood and things strangled was against the law in the NT, but being uncircumsized was not against the law in the NT

were they cherry picking, or are their guidlines to go by?
---francis on 5/11/12


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It is obvious that Rob views the distinction between the Old and New Covenant.

The Old Covenant (made by God with Israel at Mt. Sinai) eventually contained over 600+ laws. The means of becoming part of that covenant was thru circumcision.

The New Covenant also a covenant made by God with Israel has as its requirement belief in Jesus as the Christ. It did not have the laws, statutes, and regulations of the Old covenant.

Adventist confuse the covenants thinking that the New covenant is the Old covenant with its 600+ laws written on the heart of believers. They however, cherry pick what laws are required of Christians in contrary to what was decreed by the church at the Jerusalem council Acts 15.
---lee1538 on 5/11/12


Francis, you wrote can two walk together unless they agree.

Scripture teaches the old has passed away and all things are new.

Can a person be under the OLD COVENANT which has passed away, and also be under the NEW COVENANT?
---Rob on 5/11/12

LOL LOL
Is that how you study the bible?

Is that how you interprete this verse of scripture?

what I posted has nothing to do with old or new covenants at all. That fact that you got old and new covenant our of Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? tells me that you need to be a SDA. You interpretation is bad.

Not only are you out of context, ou do not even have the correct doctrine
---francis on 5/11/12


hello,moreexcellantway! Thankyou for taking time to answer my questions..yes,much of what you said my own daughter the few last times,conversation 'bout evil 'darkness of this world . She said similar to some people we out "mom doesn't understand things like that,she lives 'n a different world"... I got to admit yes,it is difficult to figure out.Thankyou.
---ELENA on 5/11/12


Elena, you are well equipped to do the same as the woman who wiped our Lord's feet with tears of sorrow, but there is a drawback in this world of corruption ('the ideology of goodness', idealism). The idealistic attitude that "evil is illogical" is the reason why you have a difficult time understanding "darkness". Unfortunately, government no longer has respect for legality (it was once 'THE ideal'). Nowadays there is also the obsession to be MULTICULTURAL and 'politically correct' ("fair" to all cultures)...thereby not letting the church have any more 'special priveledge'/freedom (of course, GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE in church matters is UNJUST)...2 Timothy 3:3,4 "haters of good, treacherous, reckless".
---more_excellent_way on 5/11/12


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Francis, you wrote can two walk together unless they agree.

Scripture teaches the old has passed away and all things are new.

Can a person be under the OLD COVENANT which has passed away, and also be under the NEW COVENANT?
---Rob on 5/11/12


Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
---francis on 5/11/12


How can two walk together unless they agree?
---francis on 5/10/12


Hello,Everyone..reading here the posts recently few weeks maybe similar blogg once again here general discussion..the denominational churches,you mention here the churchs forced to take folks maybe they would not otherwise,lose thier non-profit status...other blogg Steveng you said Gov't owns the churches? What about separation church & state? How can they force church's??? Doesn't sound legal...thanks anyone who responds..
---ELENA on 5/10/12


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Hello,again..my 2nd question(maybe It will be Posted this one) I am truly try'n to understand.. I thought the gospel/church for everyone.. I understand about repentance...But,how can they (anyone sinner ) come to know God's word & the gospel,change toward a christian If you do not teach them??And on the other hand I don't understand gov't force church's.??
---ELENA on 5/10/12


StrongAxe, I agree with you 100% concerning what you wrote about Jonestown, Waco, and televangelist.

I also will be the first to admit there was a time in my life when these so called televangelist had me caught up in their tangled web of deceit.

Just like SATAN, these people are so SUBTLE in the TACTICS they use, a person often does not realize they are being trapped until it is to late. Also they have some people so BRAINWASHED, they can never escape.

To this very day, I am so very thankful I have learned how important it is to take the need time to study scripture in the true context which it is written. This includes asking and answering the questions, WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, AND TO WHOM the scripture was written.
---Rob on 5/10/12


Rob:

Denominationalism has both advantages and disadvantages.

Individual churches are bound together by a shared belief, and are held accountable to it. Unfortunately, when the whole denomination strays from the truth, it is difficult for individual churches to resist this.

Non-denominational churches have the opposite problem. They have nobody to hold them accountable whenever their leaders go off the deep end.

We have seen extreme cases of this in Jonestown and Waco, but they still happen to a much lesser extent in many other churches. Look at some of the weird teachings coming out of some TV evangelists.
---StrongAxe on 5/10/12


Rob, Is "denominationalism" the condition of all denominations regarded together? You cannot group all denominations together, since in fact some denominations are of completely different faiths. There are Christian denominations, and NonChristian denominations. The Christian "Baptist" denomination are called such because they emphasize the need for baptism and probably trace there beginnings back to John the Baptist. The "Methodist" because they emphasize "the method", et cetera. But a denomination that bases their faith on Christ alone is a "Christian" denomination, and those that do not are "NonChristian" denominations.
---Eloy on 5/10/12


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Eloy, the second best thing which happened to me in my life was being rescued from denominationalism.

I attend the Berean Bible Church which began as an in home Bible Study. It has no denominational affiliation, but has people who came from many different denominations.
---Rob on 5/10/12


Rob, What is the name or the denominational branch of your church? A lot of Bible studies have their own preprinted lessons or study aides with the topics, including preprinted questions to review together in class which emphasizes the Biblical passage/passages that the class is studying. The same thing goes for preaching as for teaching, usually the preacher prepares sermon notes to help guide him through the subject and the passage/passages for that particular service. As long as the prepared notes used are not contradicting the scriptures, but rather elucidating the scriptures, than it is a proper teaching/preaching method.
---Eloy on 5/10/12


In My local SDA congregation we have a group that meats via telephone every sunday night, one group meets every monday, everyone meets for wednesday night prayer meeting, one gruop meets friday night, everyone meets on sabbath morning, and two seperate group meeting on saturday afternoon.

Each group chooses what it wants to study.

The sabbath school is the same for every church everywhere in the world. Each preacher preaches to edify each individual congregation.

So in my SDA congregation we have LIBERTY to study as we please, and because we are part of a world wide church we all world wide study together regardless of what city, state, or nation we are in.

I cannot see how anyone would have a problem with that
---francis on 5/10/12


I guess the place I attend for Worship and study must be different and maybe rare.

Whether it be Sunday School, Mid-Week Bible Study, or during the Sunday Sermon, we only use the Bible.

We go through the Bible book by book, chapter by chapter, and verse by verse.
---Rob on 5/10/12


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//LEEJ is that what you missprinted from steps to christ chapter 7?

You really need to look at Chapter 7 of Steps to Christ. I did not "misprint" anything from it.

It appears that the first 6 chapters are really on target but then in chapter 7, it degenerates into a work salvation message.
---lee1538 on 5/10/12


LEEJ is that what you missprinted from steps to christ chapter 7?

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness.

Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---francis on 5/9/12


Every worldly denominational church is a cult in themselves each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. Every church within a denomination receives what to teach and what not to teach from the president or board of directors. For instance, more and more denominational churches are allowing gays into their membership - even ordaining them to minister. Governments are now beginning to force churches to accept gays or they will take away their non-profit status. Obama and Biden now believe that gays should marry so who do you suppose will force the your dearly coveted denominational churches to marry them by law or get stripped of their non-profit status?
---Steveng on 5/9/12


//I would say that the only true churches are those that have consistently taught the same things for the last two millennia.
---

Yes, there is a centrality of teachings found within the church for the past 2 millennia.

And that is why I cannot be a Seventh Day Adventist as they teach beliefs not found within the church since its conception.

Their argument that they were given some kind of special anointing by God to reveal new truths is not only unconvincing but without any merit.
---lee1538 on 5/9/12


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Everyone thinks their faith is the best. So sda's will say theirs is the best. I say mine is the best. If churches depend on their headquarters for subject taught I think that is wrong. My pastor teaches what God lays on his heart. He prays for guidance from God. His sermons are powerful and biblical.
---Shira4368 on 5/9/12


I would say that the only true churches are those that have consistently taught the same things for the last two millennia.
---Catholicus on 5/9/12


I wrote a review on Steps to Christ in Amazon. It is a good book until one reaches chapter 7 where the author brings the Christian back under the OT 10 commandment law given at Mt Sinai.

"Righteousness is defined by the standard of God's holy law, as expressed in the ten precepts given on Sinai."

"The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been, - just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents - perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness." chapter 7.

And who will ever achieve 'perfect righteousness'?

Yes, indeed, Adventists have always pitched the view that one has no freedom and liberty in Christ as righteousness is in the law!
---lee1538 on 5/9/12


For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do
not the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually
members of one another (Rom. 12:4, 5). And Christ is the
head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the
dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence (Col. 1:18).

It does not matter where in the world your live, If you are a SDA you are member of ONE body. So why should the body not study the same thing at the same time? This is just greater proof of the unity of the body. Keep in mind that each pastor preaches to suit his congregation's needs, but the sabbath school lesson is the same worldwide each sabbath. All members receive the same knowledge
---francis on 5/9/12


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This post is a testimony to the seventh day adentist church as the true church of God

the BIBLE says: Matthew 24:14 And THIS GOSPEL of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world

So the true church preaches THIS GOSPEL and not these gospels.

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling,
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

What this posts says i that the SDA church is ONE.

We do not have two seperate faiths or spirits or baptism we have ONE

thanks Rob
---francis on 5/9/12


Galatians 2:4 Liberty- not having to be circulcised.
1 Cor 8:9-10 and 1 Cor 10:29 liberty to eat whatever clean meat is sold in the market place,

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption:

This verse warns of people who promise you liberty but lead you into sin. It's companion verse is this:

Jeremiah 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not, And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

Never is liberty about commiting sin
---francis on 5/9/12


Rob, not at all. Many corporate groups, or churches with a headquarters, will receive from the headquarters what subject to teach upon during their scheduled gatherings. In a way it is a good thing, because all of the sunday school classes will be studying the exact same subject at that same time, being on the same page. This is also done in many secular schools, each school branch under the umbrella of the headquarters receives the scholastic literature and curriculum on what topics and on which scheduled times of the year they should be teaching, to instruct in their school. And then if they also broadcast on TV or radio they will use the literature that they all received from their headquartes.
---Eloy on 5/9/12


I think people are missing the point of the question.

Organizations such as the SDA General Conference dictates to every SDA congregation what is to be taught in their Sabbath School, and when it will be taught.

Is this not a form of mind control?

Is there much difference between this and being in a concentration camp?
---Rob on 5/9/12


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Rob, The group of people that gather for Bible study usually have some structure in the class. Customarily the leader leads on a specific subject to study, and not the individuals instructing the instructor on what subject to teach.
---Eloy on 5/8/12


I don't know much about the Adventists, but if a church is not accountable to anyone but itself, then any crazy doctrines might be taught with impunity. That's how it is already in many churches.
---Catholicus on 5/8/12


God "FREED" us from "THE LAW", He didn't 'set us free' (abandon us).

Too often, when a person no longer wants their pet, they will "set it free" in the wild (ABANDON it). God doesn't abandon ownership of anyone, He did not even surrender ownership of CAIN (He put a mark of ownership that could be clearly seen by all, Genesis 4:16 "put a mark on Cain").

"LIBERTY" means we are NOT ENSLAVED or dictated to (we are allowed to make our decisions for our lives and determine what we will do with our lives). We are "free" TO ESTABLISH who we ourselves are and will be,...(OUR 'identity' is OUR personal choice). We are to be judged under the "law of LIBERTY", James 2:12.
---more_excellent_way on 5/8/12


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