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Explain Matthew 5:19

Does Matthew 5:19 pertain only to the Old Covenant or is the New Covenant also in view?

Whosoever shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven...

We do not teach circumcision, dietary laws, or other OT laws.

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 ---lee1538 on 5/9/12
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---Mark_V. on 5/18/12
I did not avoid you. I answered you.
Now AGAIN: Unless you think that the day Jesus kept as sabbath was different from the one we keep today. Then sabbath is saturday

Furthermore, people go to church on Sunday because of the ressurection:
Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

So by biblical standards if sunday is the first day,. then the day before is the 7th and is the sabbath
---francis on 5/18/12


francis, you are avoiding me. Why not give one passage? If you believe in Saturday Sabbath so bad, and everyday you speak about it, you should be able to come out with one passage where "God commanded man to keep "Saturday Sabbath". Or, that He begin creation on Sunday and rested Saturday. Please man up.
---Mark_V. on 5/18/12


Why don't SDA Elders sit among the people in the congragation, but are seated on an elevated platform/stage facing the congregation and looking down on them?
---Rob on 5/17/12

Nehemiah 8:4 And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose, and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand, and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, [and] Meshullam.

Nehemiah 8:5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people, (for he was above all the people,) and when he opened it, all the people stood up

Maybe they are Ezralites
---francis on 5/18/12


Francis, you wrote everything we do SDA worship God.

If this is true, why do SDA,s do the very things Christ Himself rebuked the Pharisees for doing in Matthew 23:1-6?

Why is it that when the SDA Elders walk in, the congregation must stand, and if I remember correctly, must remain standing until the Elders take their seats?

Why don't SDA Elders sit among the people in the congragation, but are seated on an elevated platform/stage facing the congregation and looking down on them?
---Rob on 5/17/12


I have a straight forward question to ask you. Which day of the week do you Worship?
---Rob on 5/17/12
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

For SDA worship is not what happens on just one day. Worship is how we live.

What we choose to eat is worship of God because we obey God in his dietary law

What we choose to wear os worship when we wear what God says

And yes when we keep the sabbath that too is worship because it is what God said

In everything we do, SDA worship God.
---francis on 5/17/12




If it is not in your conscience and it is written "that God commanded us to keep Saturday Sabbath,"
---Mark_V. on 5/17/12

Francis, the calendars I have in my home have seven days per week, listed as being Sunday thru Sataurday.
---Rob on 5/17/12

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
---francis on 5/17/12


francis. you tell me,

"This is the commandments of God,not my consscience. I encourage you to obey it"

If it is not in your conscience and it is written "that God commanded us to keep Saturday Sabbath," please provide the passages where God said Saturday was the seventh day. My conscience is ok. Because I have yet to see one passage where God said that the Seventh day was Saturday. I have yet to see one passage where God said "He begin creation on Sunday and rested Saturday either." Jerry could not provide one passage maybe you can. Help us so that our conscience can be right?
---Mark_V. on 5/17/12


Francis, the calendars I have in my home have seven days per week, listed as being Sunday thru Sataurday.

I have a straight forward question to ask you. Which day of the week do you Worship?

I want to see if you will answer this question or if as usual, you will avoid answering it while you look for a lie you hope people will believe.
---Rob on 5/17/12


If a persons work week begins on a Wednesday, what day is their sixth day of work, and when would be their seventh day to rest?
---Rob on 5/16/12

God did not base His sabbath on MAN's work week, He based it on HIS work week.

Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
---francis on 5/16/12


Francis, why do you harp so much about keeping the Sabbath, yet you neglect thou shalt not have other God's, and thou shalt not lie?

If a persons work week begins on a Wednesday, what day is their sixth day of work, and when would be their seventh day to rest?
---Rob on 5/16/12




---Mark_V. on 5/16/12

YOu are confussed:
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This is the commandments of God,not my consscience. I encourage you to obey it
---francis on 5/16/12


Hi Lee, I believe what Christ is teaching in Matt 5:19 is 1. The Jews considered some laws to be lesser than others. In truth all God's laws are equally important.
2. Just as under the Law Age, now in the Kingdom of God Age, if a man teaches and follows God's moral laws (Luke 10:27) he shall be great here in the Kingdom, however, if he breaks,changes or down plays God's doctrines, and commandments and teach other to do the same he shall be counted the least here in the Kingdom of Heaven by devout men and God.
---trey on 5/15/12


francis, as for me, I do not question your salvation, or whether the spirit is in you or not. My intent concerns your interpretations of Scripture.
The SDA's doctrine are very wrong. While you believe in the keeping of the written law, I do not mind. You want to keep Saturday Sabbath, I should not try to make you go against your conscience. Why do you try to make others go against their conscience?
"For when we were in the flesh the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to brear fruit of wrath. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we "should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter" (Rom. 7:5,6).
---Mark_V. on 5/16/12


Francis, you wrote now if thou keep the Sabbath, yet if though lie, thou art becaome a trangressor of the law.

Francis, many times on these blogs you have been exposed and proven to be a liar, which means you are a transgressor of the law.

You have also been exposed and proven to serve and follow a FALSE GOD.
---Rob on 5/16/12


No I did not
No I did not
Because I have faith

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James could have said:

For he that said, honour thy parents, said also, Do not covet. Now if thou honour thy parents, yet if thou covet, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Or

James 2:11 For he that said, remember the sabbath, said also, Do not lie. Now if thou keep the sabbath, yet if thou lie, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Because he who said... also said...dishourning parents is trangression, same as not keeping the sabbath day holy.
-francis on 5/12/12
---francis on 5/15/12


Franscis, it must be a bug of some kind because I dont see it. Would you mind answering again?

"Francis, did you receive the Spirit by going to church on Saturday? (Gal 3:2)

Do you think that you will keep the Spirit by going to church on Saturday? (Gal 3:3)

Does Jesus work miracles by the Spirit among your congregation because you attend church on Saturday or because you have faith (Gal 3:5)
---CraigA on 5/15/12


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According to the usual rules of grammar "these commandments" clearly refer to the positive commandments of the Beatitudes.

And v 19 should not be read without v20. No one can doubt that the scribes and Pharisees were keeping all the OT commandments. But did their keeping of them, especially their Sabbath observance and avoidance of pork make them righteous?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/15/12


---CraigA on 5/15/12

I answered on 5/12/12 unless it was another question which i missed
---francis on 5/14/12


Right here:

"Francis, did you receive the Spirit by going to church on Saturday? (Gal 3:2)

Do you think that you will keep the Spirit by going to church on Saturday? (Gal 3:3)

Does Jesus work miracles by the Spirit among your congregation because you attend church on Saturday or because you have faith (Gal 3:5)
---CraigA on 5/12/12 "
---CraigA on 5/14/12


---CraigA on 5/14/12

I answered on 5/12/12 unless it was another question which i missed
---francis on 5/14/12


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//Is not keeping the Law of foremost importance to you?

The law is important in that it reveals what sin is. However, the Bible tells us that the law was but a tutor, guardian or schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.

However, ONCE we have been justified by faith in Christ, we are no longer under the law.

Gal. 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Unfortunately Adventists simply cannot see that as they still believe we are justified by the law.
---lee1538 on 5/14/12


Francis, I answered your questions that were a response to mine. Why have you not responded with answers to mine? A simply "yes" or "no" response is all Im looking for. Unless of course you think you would trap yourself in answering in such a way
---CraigA on 5/14/12


Is not keeping the Law of foremost importance to you?
---Mark_Eaton on 5/14/12

Don't you think this question is better adressed to those who write the blog question?
---francis on 5/14/12


Can you show me, or explain to me how and where in this post did you see any thing about trying to fulfil the law yourself?
---francis on 5/11/12

Is not keeping the Law of foremost importance to you?

I have seen blogs and blogs and blogs of you and Lee discussing keeping the Law.

I included this from past history.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/14/12


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francis, I wish you would answer for yourself. Your denomination has you in bondage, and won't let you go forward. You insist to live in the physical, the written letter of the law, and refuse to go forward, in the Spirit of the law. You already know Christ took your place on the physical, to free you from that law you could not keep yourself by your works, yet want to remain under the letter of the law. That is why you give James, insisting a person doing Saturday Sabbath, is doing good works. Jesus is our Sabbath, and will always be our Sabbath. But you don't like that, you want to do the works of the Sabbath. How can you remain under the law when you know the Spirit of the law? You want the works of the law to get into the kingdom of God.
---Mark_V. on 5/14/12


Where does it say in scripture that the Sabbath was designed to be a day of worship?
---CraigA on 5/13/12
Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation,

Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth.. from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Sabbath has been, and always will be a time of congregational worship.
---francis on 5/12/12
---francis on 5/13/12


So do you also have faith that God did create the world in six periods of unknown duration and rested on the seventh?

Yes, indeed! And so does everyone that believes what the Bible says.
---lee1538 on 5/13/12
James 2:19 the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

SDA put thier faith into action: We keep the sabbath day holy because we believe that God created the world in six days and rested the 7th.

How do you put your faith that God is the creator into action?
---francis on 5/13/12


FRANCIS, Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. A day of rest designed by God because He himself rested also on that very day.

If that day is Saturday and we rest on Saturday and go to church on Sunday, how are we doing wrong?

Where does it say in scripture that the Sabbath was designed to be a day of worship?
---CraigA on 5/13/12


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Neither. Matthew 5:19, in the context of the whole of Matthew chapter 5, emphasizes ONLY the NEW LAW. Therefore, to wrongly apply the old covenant to Jesus' New Covenant is sin. You cannot apply the new to the old, nor put new wine in old vessels. Jesus is very clear your obedience to his Commandments must surpass that of the Sadducee teachers and Pharisee Ministers whom only obey the old law, and therefore they are condemned. You cannot obey two opposing Masters: the ministry of death, and also the ministry of Life: for they are enimity one against the other.
---Eloy on 5/13/12


---Cluny on 5/13/12
Time cannot erase the fact that God created the world in six days and rested the 7th.

In-fact the bible tells me that through eterniy we will be keeping the sabbath

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Six day of creating were not falling earthly days. There was no sin on earth during creation week.

But God did command us to remember that he is the creator. When did God stop being the creator?
---francis on 5/13/12


So do you also have faith that God did create the world in six periods of unknown duration and rested on the seventh?

Yes, indeed! And so does everyone that believes what the Bible says.


---lee1538 on 5/13/12


\\So do you also have faith that God did create the world in six day and rested on the seventh?\\

Do you have faith that God is eternal, or do you believe that He is bound by time and experiences it as we do?

And do you have faith that the six days of creation were fallen earthly days?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/13/12


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Because I have faith
---CraigA on 5/12/12
So do you also have faith that God did create the world in six day and rested on the seventh?

Many people have lost faith in God as creator and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1:25

The bible calls us to Fear God, and give glory to him, and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Rev 14:7

Do you see the relationship between faith, worshiping God as creater and the sabbath?

Here it is: Exodus 20:11 in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed
---francis on 5/12/12


---Rob on 5/12/12
By the way, how did you decide which 9/10 to keep?

Did you lose faith that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11?

Have you been made aware that those who make sunday thier day of rest are doing so because they changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature( THE SUN) more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1:25?

Rob, If you want to give your mother a great mothers day gift. Sit and talk to her about why she became a SDA. I gaurantee her heart is aching for you
---francis on 5/12/12


Francis - //the sabbath is MANY times in the NT:

While the Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament, it is in reference to the missionary effort of the early church as the gospel was first presented to the Jews.

However, since the majority of Jews rejected the Gospel, the church became more Gentile and no longer observed laws that were particularly Jewish such as the Sabbath.

Early church history as seen by Adventists scholars have confirms that.

Now that you got the truth, will you also reject it as the jews did the Gospel?
---lee1538 on 5/12/12


Francis, over and over again you have bad mouth people and called them FEMALE DOGS for only keeping 9 of 10 of the commandments instead of keeping 10 of 10.

Yet you yourself do not keep all ten even though you say you do.

All a person needs to do is look through these blogs and see all the times you have told OUTRIGHT LIES, then you went on a rant to try to cover up your lies, and to draw attention away from the lies you have told.

Look at the time when you tried to get me to lie and say I don't know what SDA's believe and teach.
---Rob on 5/12/12


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---CraigA on 5/12/12
No I did not
No I did not
Because I have faith

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James could have said:

For he that said, honour thy parents, said also, Do not covet. Now if thou honour thy parents, yet if thou covet, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Or

James 2:11 For he that said, remember the sabbath, said also, Do not lie. Now if thou keep the sabbath, yet if thou lie, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Because he who said... also said...dishourning parents is trangression, same as not keeping the sabbath day holy.
---francis on 5/12/12


Fortunately there in NO command in the New covenant that says we need to observe any day as holy. ---lee1538 on 5/12/12

the sabbath is MANY times in the NT:Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

BUT THIS IS NOT:
Deuteronomy 27:21 Cursed [be] he that lieth with any manner of beast.

remind me not to let my dog come ovr to your house, because who knows
---francis on 5/12/12


CraigA, did you receive the Spirit by Honouring your father and mother? (Gal 3:2)

Do you think that you will keep the Spirit by Honouring your father and mother? (Gal 3:3)

Does Jesus work miracles by the Spirit among your congregation because you Honouring your father and mother or because you have faith (Gal 3:5)
---francis on 5/12/12


No - I did not.
No - I do not
Because I have faith

Now its your turn.
---CraigA on 5/12/12


//So if people rest on Saturday (which is the Sabbath) and go to church on Sunday... what exactly is the problem?
---Blogger9680 on 5/12/12
For many of us we have jobs that are very demanding such as those in the medical profession. As a result, in order to get necessary work done around the house, shopping and other errants, one really has to work on weekends. While we hope we can get a few breaks to rest and recuperate, it is not always possible.

Fortunately there in NO command in the New covenant that says we need to observe any day as holy. Adventists have been searching for decades for such a command and they have yet to find one. Perhaps that is why they decided to make Ellen White's writings as being scripture.
---lee1538 on 5/12/12


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Francis, did you receive the Spirit by going to church on Saturday? (Gal 3:2)

Do you think that you will keep the Spirit by going to church on Saturday? (Gal 3:3)

Have you suffered in vain? (Gal 3:4)

Does Jesus work miracles by the Spirit among your congregation because you attend church on Saturday or because you have faith (Gal 3:5)
---CraigA on 5/12/12

CraigA, did you receive the Spirit by Honouring your father and mother? (Gal 3:2)

Do you think that you will keep the Spirit by Honouring your father and mother? (Gal 3:3)

Does Jesus work miracles by the Spirit among your congregation because you Honouring your father and mother or because you have faith (Gal 3:5)
---francis on 5/12/12


//Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation,

Silly that some people believe they are Jewish when they became Christians. As such they hold the OT laws to be applicable.

But they are really phony as they really do not obey all the laws found in the Old Covenant.

Exocus 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

Does Jerry or Francis light their stoves to cook their food and heat their homes on the Sabbath?

if they say they do not, they lie.
---lee1538 on 5/12/12


Scripture nailed Adventism to the cross 2000 years ago!

(Col 2:16,17)
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind



If a person thinks keeping the Sabbath or worshipping Michael the archANGEL as Jesus Christ ensures them righteousness, then they have missed the mark once again.
---LindaH on 5/12/12


Francis, did you receive the Spirit by going to church on Saturday? (Gal 3:2)

Do you think that you will keep the Spirit by going to church on Saturday? (Gal 3:3)

Have you suffered in vain? (Gal 3:4)

Does Jesus work miracles by the Spirit among your congregation because you attend church on Saturday or because you have faith (Gal 3:5)
---CraigA on 5/12/12


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So if people rest on Saturday (which is the Sabbath) and go to church on Sunday... what exactly is the problem?
---Blogger9680 on 5/12/12
Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation,

Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth.. from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Sabbath has been, and always will be a time of congregational worship.
---francis on 5/12/12


francis, lee said it all when he said,

"Typical of Adventism! They tell you that what counts is the righteousness in Christ and then go on to tell us we must strive to obey the law to become righteous".

you speak about how man cannot keep the Law perfect and how Christ could for our behalf and then turn around tell us that in order to be righteous we have to obey the law. Some double talk there don't you see it?
You refuse to believe in the answer concerning those who are in Christ. Second, no one is saying they don't do the sabbath, what you demand is to do Saturday instead of Sunday, for no good reason whatsoever.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/12


\\Not keeping the Sabbath day holy is the sin.---Francis\\

What day do we get to keep in an unholy, sinful, and profane manner?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/12/12


Not keeping the Sabbath day holy is the sin.---Francis

So if people rest on Saturday (which is the Sabbath) and go to church on Sunday... what exactly is the problem?
---Blogger9680 on 5/12/12


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Blogger9680, how do you understand these texts:

Romans 7:7 Is the law sin? God forbid

and

1 Corinthians 15:56 the strength of sin is the law.
---francis on 5/12/12


Jesus taught (Matt. 5:2) of hope and of righteousness and of rewards. He also taught more in depht of what his audience " heard that it was said by them of old time".
Matthew 5:19 refers to both old and new, his words being binding and commanding as he also said in, John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
---Nana on 5/12/12


Francis, do you believe people who go to church on Sundays will be condemned for it?
---Blogger9680 on 5/11/12
NO!!!

John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.( same law also says remember the sabbath day to keep it holy)
Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is death,

So it is not the going to church on Sunday that is an issue, it is putting your foot on the sabbath that is the sin, Going to church on Sunday is no sin. Not keeping the Sabbath day holy is the sin.

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath from doing thy pleasure on my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight,...
---francis on 5/12/12


Francis, do you believe people who go to church on Sundays will be condemned for it?
---Blogger9680 on 5/11/12


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If the requirement of the law has been completed, why do you want to try to fullfil it again yourself?
---Mark_Eaton on 5/11/12



Very good question, MarkE.

Hopefully its to show love for God, and not to merit eternal life.
---CraigA on 5/11/12


But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---francis on 5/11/12

Jesus came to fullful the law. And in giving us this "escape" as you word it, Jesus completed our requirement for the law. So the requirement of the law has been completed for those who accept the free gift of God.

If the requirement of the law has been completed, why do you want to try to fullfil it again yourself?
---Mark_Eaton on 5/11/12


Can you show me, or explain to me how and where in this post did you see any thing about trying to fulfil the law yourself?
---francis on 5/11/12


But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---francis on 5/11/12

You are forgetting key elements in your statement. Jesus came to fullful the law. And in giving us this "escape" as you word it, Jesus completed our requirement for the law. So the requirement of the law has been completed for those who accept the free gift of God.

If the requirement of the law has been completed, why do you want to try to fullfil it again yourself?
---Mark_Eaton on 5/11/12


Can anyone tell me what is their understanding of this post??

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness.

Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---francis on 5/11/12


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//He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness.

Typical of Adventism! They tell you that what counts is the righteousness in Christ and then go on to tell us we must strive to obey the law to become righteous.
---lee1538 on 5/11/12


Can anyone tell me what is their understanding of this post??

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness.

Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---francis on 5/10/12


//Can anyone tell me what is their understanding of this post??

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness.

Some good answers to your question can be found on forum Christian Apologetic & Research Ministry. View their forum under Seventh Day Adventism regarding Steps to Christ.
---lee1538 on 5/10/12


//Lee, we both know it is pointless to share the Book of Galatians with Francis.

Yes, since Adventism is really an Old Testament pseudo-Judaizing denomination. However, there are many that have read and understood the book of Galatians and have left the SDA for a more Biblically oriented denomination.

Since Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God became a Christian denomination, there is yet hope for Adventism, but they need to cut themselves free from olde Ellen White and her teachings.
---lee1538 on 5/10/12


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Can anyone tell me what is their understanding of this post??

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness.

Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---francis on 5/10/12


francis, The passage in (Matt. 5:17) is speaking to the disciples, only believers are in Kingdom of heaven. Jesus does not refer to loss of salvation is clear from the fact that though offenders will be called least while the positive result is that whoever keeps and teaches God's Word, he shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven. Jesus was calling the disciples to a deeper, more holiness than that of the Pharisees, for they had a tendency to soften the law's demands by focusing only on external obedience. Jesus show that the righteousness called for actually involved an internal conformity to the Spirit of the law, rather then the external compliance to the letter of the law.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/12


Lee, we both know it is pointless to share the Book of Galatians with Francis.

What is cleary written in Galatians has been shared with Francis many times, but is always rejected because it goes against the teaching of Ellen G. White and the SDA's.
---Rob on 5/10/12


francis - from Steps to Christ Chapter 7 - "Righteousness is defined by the standard of Gods holy law, as expressed in the ten precepts given on Sinai."

So she believes our righteousness comes form obedience to the 10 commandments.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
---lee1538 on 5/10/12


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Can anyone tell me what is their understanding of this post??

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness.

Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---francis on 5/10/12


//LEEJ what is your understanding of this post?

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness.
----
The previous quote 2 paragraphs above this quote is -

"Righteousness is defined by the standard of God's holy law as expressed in the ten precepts given on Sinai."

This clearly means that one must achieve 'perfect righteousness' by obedience to the 10 commandments.

And this nullifies the previous statements "we do not earn salvation by our obedience, for salvation is the free gift of God, to be received by faith."
---lee1538 on 5/10/12


LEEJ what is your understanding of this post?

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness.

Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---francis on 5/9/12
---francis on 5/10/12


There has been a tug and pull approach with this verse, me being messianic have seen it. One thing to note is put the verse into context. Who is he talking to? When was he saying it? This man was not talking to New Covenant believers because the New Covenant wasn't started yet. These were Torah (Law) Observant Jews who knew only the Old Covenant. These words however will not pass away until heaven and earth pass away, and the WORDS haven't. That does not mean we have to be Torah observant. It is a "NEW" Covenant promised to Israel in Jeremiah 31:30-31 and extended to us in Romans 11. NOT a Re-newed covenant. I hope this helps you out.
---Tim on 5/10/12


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francis //He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---
That is basically my position. We need not strive to become righteous by the law for our salvation as that is really impossible.

Unfortunately Steps to Christ really brings one back under the law. Perfect righteousness being the condition required for eternal life.
---lee1538 on 5/10/12


The old covenant/ten commandments were of a physical nature. The new covenant/ten commandments are of a spiritual nature. It was once said that if you killed someone (physically) you have transgressed the law. Now, if you are angry with someone (spiritual) you have killed him and again transgressed the law - same laws, different terms.

The one ultimate law is to love - genuine love. But if you bring together all the laws they fall under love - love of God, love of others. The 613 laws of Moses fall neatly unter the ten commandments. The ten commandments fall neatly under the two commandments. These two commandments fall neatly under the ultimate commandment Jesus spoke of.

In today's world, your thoughts have betrayed you.
---Steveng on 5/9/12


LEEJ is that what you missprinted from steps to christ chapter 7?

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness.

Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness
---francis on 5/9/12


francis//By backing up a few verses, we see that this is not about the covenants, but about the law of God.
----
Christ was under the Old Covenant law.

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

So is our obligation to the Old Covenant law or are we under a different covenantal relationship?

If one had asked Jesus if male children need to be circumcised and observe the laws of Moses, what would have been Jesus' answer?
---lee1538 on 5/9/12


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Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

By backing up a few verses, we see that this is not about the covenants, but about the law of God



Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill, and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Going forward a few verses it appears to be specifically the ten commandments
---francis on 5/9/12


In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus only speaks of ethics, and not of ceremony. And his ethical principles were stringent. With that, we can decide what he meant.
---Catholicus on 5/9/12


You need to back up some read what is being stated in Matthew. Christ said He did not void the law, but fulfilled them. To teach they have been done away with because of what Christ did is in error and to teach otherwise is a sin. The Christian is NOT under any of the laws because Christ fulfilled the laws, and not because we did or are doing anything to keep the laws.
---wivv on 5/9/12


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