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Is Israel In God's Heart

My question is this, if Israel is God's heart, and where he chose to put his name for all time, why do most Christians find no relevancy in this nation or the world's oldest surviving city? Even when under attack as she always is?

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Mark V, here are some other passages for you. John 8:34-36, Matt 22:37-40, Rev. 12:17, 1st John 3:4-10 and 1st John 5.
---barb on 6/7/12


barb, you are speaking about the evidence after a person is saved. We were saved unto good works.
We were talking about merits and both passages (Matt. 19:16-24) and (Eph. 2:8,9) are speaking about the same thing. Merits will not get us into heaven, only by God granting us faith in His Son are we saved. The rich young ruler's merits could not save him, even though he said he kept the commandments of God, for in order to be pure, he could not give up his possessions to help others. Our righteousness are as filthy rags. For anything without faith is sin.
Your welcome to bring other passages to point out what you believe. peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/12


Mark V, exactly, the works of God are to believe in His Son whom He sent. To me this means to learn His teachings which were given to Him by God, to repent of my sins, to agree to obey His words and to put them into practice. It does not mean (to me) just to believe that Jesus is God's son, to repent and accept that He died on the cross for my sins and therefore I am saved by grace thru faith.

It is so much more than that. John 14:23-24, John 3:18-21.
---barb on 6/6/12


barb 2: you said,
"where does Jesus say that keeping His Father's commandments is futility?" Jesus knows that our own merits cannot save us.
"Then they said to Him, "What shall we do that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God" (remember, the work of God), that you believe in Him whom He sent."
This is the work of God not the work of man. Only through the Work of God can anyone believe in the Son of God. Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from Heaven..." They did not believe Jesus was the true bread from heaven.
---Mark_V. on 6/6/12


barb, your correct. Matthew 19:16-24) is not a parable. Sorry.
you said:
"What did the rich young man lack? Why was he sorrowful? The rich young ruler said he kept the commandments. So he asked what he lacked. Jesus told him if he wanted to be pure, to sell everything and give it to the poor, but the young man walked away.
Jesus was not setting terms of salvation but was exposing the young man true heart. His refusal to obey here revealed two things.
1. He was not blameless as far as the law was concerned, because he was guilty of loving himself and his possessions more than his neighbor. (v.19).
2. he lacked true faith which involves a willingness to surrender all at Christ's bidding (16:24).
---Mark_V. on 6/6/12




Mark V, where does Jesus say that keeping His Father's commandments is futility? Matt 19:16-24 is NOT a parable. Matthew 20 is a parable. Did you read the right chapter?

Jesus is clearly telling the young ruler that to enter into the Kingdom he must keep the commandments and follow Him. See Matt 19:27-29. This is the exact same thing that the remnant of the Woman in Rev. 12:17 have completed.

What did the rich young man lack? Why was he sorrowful?
---barb on 6/5/12


While on earth, "Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" (Rom. 15:8). He was a Jew among the Jews, confining His ministry to the nation Israel, and announcing Himself as their King. Israel having rejected Him, He went back to glory, and when Israel continued in their rejection, He revealed through the Apostle Paul His new program for this dispensation of the grace of God, so that now we do not follow Him in His humility, as the Messiah of Israel, but we follow Him as the glorified One at God's right hand, and the Head of the Body.
---michael_e on 6/5/12


Craig A, I don't have faith. I have complete trust that the Holy Spirit is leading me in the right direction. With Paul you need faith but Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL truth. I trust in His words and He leads me.
---barb on 6/5/12


barb, (Matt. 19:17-24) parable, (Eph. 2:8,9) an explicit statement.
the context of Matthew and Eph. is the same, merits. (Matt. 19:16-24) Jesus said, "if you want to enter into life, keep the Commandments" This of course is law, not gospel. Before showing him the way to life, Jesus wanted to impress the high standard required by God and the absolute futility of seeking salvation by his own merit. This should have elicited a response that keeping the law perfectly is impossible, instead the young man declared he qualified for heaven under those terms. But he didn't.
(Eph. 2:8,9) "we are saved by Grace through faith, not of works lest anyone should boast" salvation is not of merit but of grace.
---Mark_V. on 6/5/12


Barb, how can you have faith that God will preserve your soul, if you don't even have faith that He can preserve his own word to us?
---CraigA on 6/4/12




Craig A, Who wrote Hebrews? Some people will tell you Paul but did he? At the back of my bible KJV it states that this book was most probably written by some other person who had come under the influence of Paul...so why use a book that with no credentials? As for 1st, 2nd and 3rd Peter, there is a lot of credible evidence that Peter was NOT the author...you can check it out for yourself. There is NO evidence that John did not write his epistles so I use them and have no problem with their message.

Mostly I'm looking for discrepencies between the words of Jesus Christ and Paul or if you can find where they agree on a doctrine that would be good too.
---barb on 6/4/12


Craig A, I picked revelation because it is consistent with the words of Jesus Christ. Check it out. Rev. 12:17, Rev. 21:7-8, Rev. 14:12 etc. etc. Revelation shows us that the way into the Kingdom taught by Jesus has not changed after all.
---barb on 6/4/12


So Barb, Im curious as to why you picked out Revelation for this experiment and not Hebrews, 1-2 Peter, and 1-3 John or Jude.

Do you believe THEY are all against Jesus' word as well?
---CraigA on 6/4/12


Mark v, start with this test. Look up everything that Jesus said about salvation (a good starting point would be Matt 19:17-24) and then look up everything that Paul said about salvation (you could start with Ephesians 2:8-9). Write it all down and compare it side by side.

Now you are probably going to tell me that after the ressurrection everything that Jesus taught was changed and that Paul was given a new revelation in vision from Christ so I will need you to show me from the book of Revelation where Jesus admits to that fact and agrees with Paul.

---barb on 6/4/12


barb, what test do you want to do? I believe that in order to understand the gospel of Jesus Christ, you need to believe in the other books also. But that takes faith. you have to have it. But go ahead and test it with a question, maybe I can answer or someone else can. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 6/4/12


Mark V, I agree that Jesus in His humanity had to die. Jesus was the Passover Lamb and He paid the death penalty for His Kingdom. However, we must know how to enter the Kingdom or His death is of no use to us.

I also agree that the Holy Spirit helped the disciples of Jesus to remember all that He taught them and that we have their written words in Matthew, John and Revelation.

I guess where we differ is that I do not believe that the bible is the inerrant word of God. But if it is then it should be able to stand up to scrutiny so why not put it to the test.
---barb on 6/3/12


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barb, Jesus in His humanity had to die, which was foreordained before the foundation of the world. In His flesh He was leaving the apostles behind. They had to stay and finish the work Christ asigned to them. Jesus was going to be with them in Spirit so that they could spread the gospel. Jesus in His humanity was local. He could not be in every place at one time. That is why He was going to sent the Comforter. To do the work that was till required, to indwell believers and guide them to all truth, so they could witness for Christ to all nations.
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12


Michael e, "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord shall enter into the the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven. Many will will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in your name? And in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you, depart from me, ye that work iniquity". Matt 7:21-23.

Also see Matt 15:8-9 "These people draw near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
---barb on 6/1/12


//Paul did a top rate job to discredit Jesus Christ and His Father//

Paul calls Jesus "Our Lord Jesus Christ" over 40 times in his writings, if that is discredit, the rest of us are in serious trouble.
---michael_e on 5/31/12


We would search in vain for a clear presentation of the preaching of the cross in the ministry of Jesus and the disciples in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.
---michael_e on 5/30/12

Amen.

2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters.

There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
---aka on 5/30/12


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Micahel e, Jesus' ministry was about the Kingdom of Heaven and how to enter in. If all Jesus had to do was to die on the cross and save us all then why did He bother teaching His disciples? Why didn't He just climb up on that old rugged cross and die? Jesus came to testify to the truth (John 18:37) and those who are of the truth hear His voice.

Paul did a top rate job to discredit Jesus Christ and His Father and thus Satan has deceived the whole christian world...
---barb on 5/30/12


Paul explains the preaching of the cross as it was given to him by Christ: 1 Cor 1:17-18

the redemptive work of Christs death and resurrection is the base of our message of salvation for today, be careful not to read into Jesus ministry what is not there.

We would search in vain for a clear presentation of the preaching of the cross in the ministry of Jesus and the disciples in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.
---michael_e on 5/30/12


Mich9344, I hear you and I understand what you are saying. This is what is important to me, that I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, that I obey those teachings and that I abide in those teachings.

I guess it will be up to Him to judge me. He said to follow Him and that is all that I am doing. Paul does not teach the same message that Christ taught and you can stretch it and bend it but you can't make it fit without ignoring the Word.

The letter to the Laodiceans in Rev. is full of light for those want to see. These folks think they have all they need but Jesus tells them they are spiritually wretched and poor and blind and naked. He is not giving out any free gifts or robes of righteousness here.
---barb on 5/28/12


Micha, you have given very good points with your answers to Barb. Thanks for defending the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 5/28/12


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barb,
you say your salvation does not hang on anyone's word but Christ.
But now you say John and Matthew must be accounted true witnesses, whereas Paul cannot.. not to mention 2Peter: which says:
1:1a Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ...
and also:
1:16b ...but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
Maybe you should question those that question authorship validity 1900+ years after it was written, while those throughout the centuries have accepted it...
So, who is on "your" list of trustworthy authors? You have John, Matthew, and people that say Peter did not write 2Peter so far....
---micha9344 on 5/27/12


//In conclusion, if one loves his neighbor and his enemy, he/she loves Jesus.//

Curious...this sounds like salvation is the works of "love thy neighbor" in contrast to loving Jesus which results in "loving your neighbor."

1 John 4:20 "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"

The love of God and the love of neighbour are separate as written:
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."
"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
---Nana on 5/26/12


micha9344, There is a lot of credible evidence that Peter was not the author of 2nd Peter. Check it out for yourself.

Jesus may not have written a word that is in the bible but check out John 15:27 and John 14:26. Jesus was talking to his disciples and it is for sure that we have two eyewitness reports, one from John and one from Matthew.

I claim no authority except the Authority of Jesus Christ and His Word. What I do have is a choice and my choice is to believe in the light/truth of Jesus or to believe in the darkness/lies of Satan.
---barb on 5/26/12


//this sounds like salvation is the works of "love thy neighbor" in contrast to loving Jesus which results in "loving your neighbor."// Rod4Him

smokescreen. does Jesus' direct words sound like salvation by works?

//How/where is this happening?//

Zionism for one and in any judaizing denomination will do, which comprises all of the denoms that i know.

//the question remains, does God keep His promises?// Yes, through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit which. his people are circumcised in the heart.

//The fact remains that Jesus was a Jew wearing zitzits.//

jesus did wear tzitzits. and because he did, nowadays, the jews circumcised in the heart can wear jeans even if they are female.
---aka on 5/25/12


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barb,
Jesus did not write a single line in the Bible.
God used devout men of God to write what had happened.
You are not believing Jesus without first believing Matthew, Mark, Luke and/or John.
Now your a questioning what Peter says about Paul
is accurate?
Such gall!!
You can't believe Jesus without believing whom Jesus sent just as you can't have the Father without the Son.
It's an authority issue.
What makes you believe you can call one part into question while accepting other parts?
Who gave you that authority?
---micha9344 on 5/25/12


... if Israel is God's heart, and where he chose to put his name for all time, why do most Christians find no relevancy in this nation.... Blog Question

The city is not representative of the people. Entire Family of consisting of Twelve nations composing Israel was the North House of 10 and the South House of 2 at time of the split.

Christians are taught that "jews" equal Israel. They are trapped in confusion in this one place. Never considering that GOD doesn't fail and that "all" Israel has been found, composing,promoting Christianity even today. They are blind. Sheep being led by wolves for preachers mostly. If they would ask their Lord instead of preachers for answers the wolves would run away.
---Trav on 5/25/12


Rod4him, you gave (Romans 11:21). God did make promises to Israel, but they rejected the truth. Even Paul says in (v. 11:14)
"If by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them" "my flesh means Jews like Paul," which really means that so many others were not saved. Only those with faith in Jesus Christ will enter the kingdom of heaven. Every believer makes up the Church, no matter from where you are from. And the Church is the bride of Christ.
(v.21) is saying, that Israel (the natural branches) was not spared despite being God's covenant nation, why should Gentiles, strangers to God's covevant (Eph.2:11,12) expect to be spared if they sin against the truth of the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 5/25/12


//In conclusion, if one loves his neighbor and his enemy, he/she loves Jesus.//

Curious...this sounds like salvation is the works of "love thy neighbor" in contrast to loving Jesus which results in "loving your neighbor."

//..world and christendom have also been given a super-imposed semitic paradigm which people have unknowingly believed.//

How/where is this happening?

Martin Luther exacerbated the anti-semitic paradigm exemplified by Hitler.

//..who claim "Jewish heritage" even if born in Israel are not necessarily the Jews that belong to Jesus.//

True, however, the question remains, does God keep His promises?

The fact remains that Jesus was a Jew wearing zitzits.
---Rod4Him on 5/25/12


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micha9344, Yes, I know that Paul wrote Gal. 2:9. Aka had told me that Paul never said that he was sent to the Gentiles and that the disciples of Jesus were sent to the Jews and that is why I quoted that verse.

And no, I do not question the Truth. Jesus Christ is the Truth. I question Paul.

My salvation does not hang on two verses that Peter may or may not have written. My salvation hangs on every word that Jesus Christ taught and not the words of anyone else.
---barb on 5/25/12


barb,
Paul wrote: (Gal 2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
And you question its truth.
Read what Peter wrote: (2Pe 3:15-16) And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you, As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Wrestle much?
---micha9344 on 5/24/12


//christendom has been given an anti-semitic paradigm which people have unknowingly believed...In conclusion if one loves Jesus, he/she is loving a Jew.// --Rod4Him

Conversely, the world and christendom have also been given a super-imposed semitic paradigm which people have unknowingly believed.

Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie--behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and they will learn that I have loved you.

the ones who claim who claim "Jewish heritage" even if born in Israel are not necessarily the Jews that belong to Jesus.

In conclusion, if one loves his neighbor and his enemy, he/she loves Jesus.
---aka on 5/24/12


//why do most Christians find no relevancy in this nation...?//

One challenge is to define "nation." Having said that, one reason is that from early Christianity it has been taught that the OT and Jews are not revelant to being a Christian.

God made promises to Abraham and Issac and Jacob. If God does not keep His promises, as St Paul said in Romans 11:21"...if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you."

Furthermore, the world and christendom has been given an anti-semitic paradigm which people have unknowingly believed.

In conclusion if one loves Jesus, he/she is loving a Jew.
---Rod4Him on 5/24/12


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barb the one who leads me does not want me to be led on the same merry-go-round on which He does not ride. peace to you.
---aka on 5/24/12


aka, yeah it would appear that it was the disciples of Jesus who made that decision but we have only Paul's word for it. The disciples of Jesus did not leave us any record of their actual ministry after the resurrection of Christ. All we have is Paul's account thru Luke who is a follower of Paul.
---barb on 5/23/12


Rev. 2 & 3 "to him that overcomes will I give..."--Sandy_G on 5/22/12
John answers this rather clearly...
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 5:4-5 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
---micha9344 on 5/23/12


Barb , i never said that you were a satanist . but, you have just demonstrated your inability or lack of willingness to read someone else's writings and use them in proper context.

you said many believe your way. My point was just because many believe does not give that belief credence... like satanists.

Who i follow is not the issue. it is who leads me.
---aka on 5/23/12


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Barb, A-men. over Jesus they chose instead: "Give us Barrabas!"
---Eloy on 5/22/12


//Why did Paul say...when Jesus clearly sent his eleven disciples to the Gentiles in Matt 28:18-20?// ---barb on 5/20/12

Aka, Gal. 2:9 "And when James, Cephas and John who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the heathen (Gentiles) and that they go unto the circumcised (Jews)".

it appears here that it was the apostles who decided that and they did just that... apostles to the Nations and Paul to the Gentiles.
---aka on 5/22/12


No. God knows if he has any one in his heart.
---Eloy on 5/22/12


barb, I also believe you are way off of your believes. You picked only what you wanted from the Word of God. You asked Sandy,
"Sandy, This is what I am asking, if our pastors and teachers know the truth and are teaching the truth which according to them is that we are saved by grace thru faith then why hasn't Jesus come back for us? If salvation is a free gift then why haven't we received our gift..."
Did you want God to stop saving others because you were saved? What about all those who have not been born yet who will be saved? Forget about them? When Christ is ready to come He will come and gather His Church. Don't you know that if you are saved and die now you will be with the Lord? You have access to heaven already.
---Mark_V. on 5/23/12


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Barb: If you believe that "saved by grace thru faith" and "salvation is a gift" means that you only have to say you believe Christ is the Son of God and you are saved then I agree with you that is not what Christ taught. Salvation comes to those who believe AND repent. Repentance to me means stop sinning and start living by every word of God. (Rom.6:1-)We receive the HS to help us obey and when we fall we have Christ as our High Priest making intercession for us. Rev. 2 & 3 "to him that overcomes will I give..."
---Sandy_G on 5/22/12


Aka, Gal. 2:9 "And when James, Cephas and John who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the heathen (Gentiles) and that they go unto the circumcised (Jews)".

I follow God the Creator thru the Law and the Prophets and the words of His Son, Jesus by believing and trusting in the writings of His eyewitness disciples and you call me a Satanist. Who do you follow?
---barb on 5/22/12


Sandy, that is correct. I do not believe that we are saved by grace thru faith or that salvation is a gift. Why? Because that is not what Jesus taught. What does believing in Jesus mean? Does it mean to just believe that He is the Son of God and you are saved? To me it means to believe in the words that He taught and to abide in those teachings and to live in His words. John 14:23-24

When Jesus returns He must have a Kingdom (church) on earth so that they can fight the Kingdom of the World. The Kingdom of Heaven will not fight with bombs but it will be a war of truth vs lies. When you see the Kingdom of this World forming together then you will see the Kingdom of Heaven coming together. Rev. 14.
---barb on 5/22/12


Eloy, yes Jesus came to the Jews first but they rejected Him. John 1:10-13. They did not believe then nor do they believe now that He is their Messiah. The Kingdom was taken from them and will be given to another nation bringing forth fruit. Matt 21:43.

As individuals the Jews can be saved if they repent and do the works but they are no longer the Kingdom that will bring the truth to the world.

"Away with Him, away with Him." "We have no king but Caesar". John 19:14-15.
---barb on 5/22/12


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Barb, the apostles were saent out in teams, two-by-twos. The propagation started with the Jew first, and then spread out to all the world to preach the gospel to ecvery creature. Recall when the NonJewish woman sought Jesus' healing, and Jesus was reluctant, and replied to her,"Should I take the bread from the Jewish children and give it to the dogs? I am come for to seek and to save the lost house of the Israelites. The woman said, 'Yes, Lord, but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the Master's table." Therefore Jesus healed her. He is gathering all the sheep from the world, not just the Jew, but all his sheep. Paul was sent to reach the Gentiles, and Peter to witness to the Jews.
---Eloy on 5/21/12


Believe me I am not alone in my beliefs about Paul. Look it up and see for yourself.
---barb on 5/20/12

there are a lot of people who believe in Satanism. does that in itself give it credence?
---aka on 5/21/12


Barb: I am in total ignorance as to what you believe therefore it is hard for me to wrap my mind around your questions. Are you saying that you do not believe we are saved by grace through faith or that salvation is a gift? If not why not? And what does believing these things have to do with the timing of Christ's return?

Eloy: May God pour out on you, dear brother, every spiritual gift. Wish you nothing but the best.
---Sandy_G on 5/21/12


//Why did Paul say that he had been sent to the Gentiles and that the apostles of Jesus had been sent to the Jews when Jesus clearly sent his eleven disciples to the Gentiles in Matt 28:18-20? //

Paul never made that delineation.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

He said what he was commissioned to do and he made no mention of what you claim.
---aka on 5/20/12


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Sandy, This is what I am asking, if our pastors and teachers know the truth and are teaching the truth which according to them is that we are saved by grace thru faith then why hasn't Jesus come back for us? If salvation is a free gift then why haven't we received our gift and why are we not living in the New Jerusalem come down from Heaven? Rev. 21:1-4.

Are we missing the truth? What did Jesus tell the rich young ruler about salvation? What does Jesus tell Nicodemus about being born of the Holy Spirit?

Believe me I am not alone in my beliefs about Paul. Look it up and see for yourself.
---barb on 5/20/12


Matt 28:18-20?
---barb on 5/20/12
Your premise is wrong, so you conclusions are also wrong.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

ALL NATION does not mean gentiles. It would have included israel also.
---francis on 5/20/12


Can anyone answer this question? Why did Paul say that he had been sent to the Gentiles and that the apostles of Jesus had been sent to the Jews when Jesus clearly sent his eleven disciples to the Gentiles in Matt 28:18-20?
---barb on 5/20/12


I think it would be wise to hesitate and think awhile before deciding that the combined wisdom of the Church has been wrong about St.Paul these past two thousand years, and that you are right.
---Catholicus on 5/19/12


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I do not believe it was by the authority of Jesus that Paul was called to be a disciple. After His ressurrection Jesus sent His 11 remaining disciples to the Gentiles/Nations. "Go and TEACH ALL NATIONS/GENTILES, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Matt: 28:18-20. -barb

if Jesus' command only applies to the 11 apostles, and no one else at a later date, then it cannot apply to anyone except the 11.

So where have we gone wrong?
---aka on 5/19/12


Barb: I have never come across anyone who claims to be Christian and yet thinks a great deal of the Bible is not the word of God. Amazing. Would you please elaborate on your last paragraph (If our pastors and scholars...) as I am not getting your meaning.
---Sandy_G on 5/19/12


Sandy, I do not believe it was by the authority of Jesus that Paul was called to be a disciple. After His ressurrection Jesus sent His 11 remaining disciples to the Gentiles/Nations. "Go and TEACH ALL NATIONS/GENTILES, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Matt: 28:18-20.

If you are going to the words of anyone else other than Jesus to learn the truth, you are engaged in an excercise of futility. John 6:63.

If our pastors and scholars are correct in what they are preaching and teaching today then we should be living in the New Jerusalem. So where have we gone wrong?
---barb on 5/19/12


Barb: You say, "What do we need Paul for?" My question then is: By whose authority did Paul become an apostle to the Gentiles? But then it is impossible to use scripture to make a point with someone who does not believe that scripture is scripture. We will just have to agree to disagree on this point.
---Sandy_G on 5/19/12


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Sandy, Jesus Christ is the only authority that can lead us to the truth and He was sent by His Father to do just that. John 17:17, John 18:37.

My beliefs in regard to Paul are shocking to many people but I stand firm in what I have learned by following Jesus and no one else.

Did Jesus finish His work on earth? John 17:3-4. Then what do we need Paul for? Did God allow the serpent into the Garden of Eden? Then why do you think He did not allow Satan into the bible? Jesus warned us of Paul but few want to see the truth. Matt: 7:15-21, John 5:43, John 10:1-5.
---barb on 5/18/12


Barb: I am in shock at your words and I quote, " I will never be grafted into the lies of Paul...". Lies of Paul? You think that part of the scriptures are lies? If we believe that part of the scriptures are lies how can we believe any of it? Which one of us would be the authority to state what is lies and what is truth?
---Sandy_G on 5/18/12


//to release a large amount of money to a Messianic Jewish Ministry to feed hungry people all over the world and build a dental clinic in Israel.//

this can be verified?
---aka on 5/13/12


Tim, it takes God to give us a heart for Israel. In 2008 God led me to release a large amount of money to a Messianic Jewish Ministry to feed hungry people all over the world and build a dental clinic in Israel. Ever since I weep for Israel and pray for the peace of Jerusalem. He lined my heart up with His heart for Israel and Jerusalem. God has to do it and we have to be yielding to His workings in our lives in this area.

Most folks are hurting so deeply that they can't get passed their own hurts and get healed so God can use them for His Vision for Israel. We need preachers to bring healing to people first, then they can go about God's work. Amen?
---anon on 5/13/12


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We see in Bible history how the Jews lost what they could have with God, while-ever they were sinning against Him. They can not have their benefits and land while they have not returned to the LORD. So, just returning to land is a false return.

It says even Egypt "will return to the LORD," in Isaiah 19:21-25. Israel will return to the LORD, along with Egypt and Assyria. So, we do not see this, now, in human history, to say the least.

Returning to land is not returning to the LORD first. They need to first obey how Messiah rules us with His own peace in our "hearts" (Colossians 3:15). And if we seek this first, "all these things shall be added to you," (Matthew 6:33) Messiah says (c:
---willie_c: on 5/11/12


Barb, Jn.5:46,47 does not read that Moses wrote the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, instead it reads that Jesus said about Moses, that "he wrote of me." (ref: Dt.18:15). Moses did not write the first five books of Moses because Moses was not even born until 2,589 years and 10 days after Adam the first man was created.
---Eloy on 5/11/12


//Abraham was not a Jew nor was he from Israel. in God's family, i am a new creature...neither Jew nor Gentile.
---aka on 5/10/12//
Amen how true
---michael_e on 5/11/12


//Read John 19:14-15. //

John 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.


???
---aka on 5/10/12


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Moses wrote the first five books of the old testament and Jesus tells us so in John 5:46-47. Moses was a Hebrew. Certainly the Jews wrote and preserved many great writings in the bible but that does not give them the assurance of salvation. Read John 19:14-15.

I will never be grafted into the lies of Paul but will be born of the Holy Spirit into the Kingdom of God as taught by Jesus Christ.
---barb on 5/10/12


Because God is not a racist! The dirt of Israel is not in God's heart, people are in God's heart, and people from all races are in God's heart: and not all people are in God's heart, nor are Israeliis better than NonIsraeliis, but only those people whom love and obey God are the people in God's heart.
---Eloy on 5/10/12


//Whether the modern post WW2 State of Israel is the same as the Israel of the Bible is debatable.// cluny

agreed. i side with it is not. God brought one Israel together. The UN brought the other. We all know each track record.

//Don't forget JESUS was a jew, and if you are born agin [sic] so are you, for we are grafted in to Abraham's family//

Abraham was not a Jew nor was he from Israel. in God's family, i am a new creature...neither Jew nor Gentile.
---aka on 5/10/12


Arthur Gilbert, so what do you do with the words of Jesus, "The kingdom shall be taken away from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruit thereof"?? Jesus does not say "might be taken away" or "could be taken away". No, He says "shall be taken away from you" and He is talking to the Jews.

By the way, I will be born into the Kingdom of God by the Holy Spirit according to the words of Jesus Christ and NOT grafted into Abraham per the words of Paul.
---barb on 5/10/12


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Israel is still GOD'S chosen people. We wouldn't have GOD'S word if it was not for the jewish people, for it was they that GOD chose to write his word the Bible. Don't forget JESUS was a jew, and if you are born agin so are you, for we are grafted in to Abraham's family .
---Arthur_Gilbert on 5/10/12


Israel is no longer God's Kingdom. Matt 21:43 "the Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruit thereof" Also see Matt: 23:37-39.

God always told Israel "IF" you will obey and keep my law....but they never did obey and never put an end to their sin or brought in the everlasting righteousness that God commanded. Dan 9:24.

The Kingdom was NOT taken away from the fathers of Israel but their Kingdom was given to a nation willing to listen to the Fathers and bear the fruit (truth) of it.
---barb on 5/10/12


I don't know what you mean by this. Israel is NOT a city. Jerusalem is. And Damascus is older than Jerusalem.

Whether the modern post WW2 State of Israel is the same as the Israel of the Bible is debatable.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/10/12


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