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Required By Death For Sabbath

Why there is such enmity against the Sabbath? Referenced the scripture Romans 8:7. I really would have liked to hear what others have to say.

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---jonweckl on 5/24/12

Ok show me sabbath in law of christ

While I show you sabbath and christ BOTH in the new earth:


Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

1: If christ is the sabbath now, why do we need a sabbath in new earth when we have the fullness of Jesus Christ and all his glory?

2: If sabbath is for OT only, why is it in the new earth?
---francis on 5/24/12


Yet there is NOTHING WHATSOEVER in the context that says that these are "feast sabbaths" rather than "ordinary sabbaths".
---StrongAxe on 5/23/12

Leviticus 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month,.. shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day [shall be] a sabbath, and on the eighth day [shall be] a sabbath.

These may fall on any weekday, unlike the weekly sabbath which must fall on the 7th day / saturday

strongeaxe are even reading those verses?
---francis on 5/24/12


Francis,(on 5/24/12) you claimed about "... the permanence of sabbath IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS..."

That's why i asked you to prove to me that the sabbath IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS is permanent, and suggested that you could probably start by first telling how the sabbath should be observed according to the 10Cs.

Because, after telling me how the sabbath was commanded to be obseved according to the 10Cs, then if as you claim this sabbath is permanent, that is how that sabbath should still to be observed today, tomorrow, and forever.
---jonweckl on 5/24/12


Francis,

Just to add to what StrongAxe mentioned...

Col.2:16 should then read, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of SABBATH, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
or this way: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the HOLYDAYS"

Either way, it is redundant and makes no sense.
---jonweckl on 5/23/12


francis:

Yet there is NOTHING WHATSOEVER in the context that says that these are "feast sabbaths" rather than "ordinary sabbaths".

The fact that it only mentions "sabbaths" without a qualifier means that either it means just ordinary ones, or those PLUS the special feast ones (but that is not important, as those have ALREADY beem included earlier in the same verse).

Please tell us, just how you "know" that these cannot refer to ordinary sabbaths, but MUST refer only to special holiday sabbaths? Because there's nothing in the verse that tells us that.
---StrongAxe on 5/23/12




Francis,
I think the problem here is you mix the observance of the sabbath as it was mandated in the law of Moses (or 10Cs) and the truth of the sabbath as shown in the law of Christ (or in the gospel).

The sabbath law in the 10Cs was "thou shalt NOT DO ANY work."(Deut.5:14) -- ANY WORK. Remember the man in Num.15:32-36. He was trying to do good. He was gathering sticks to keep his family warm. Yet he was stoned to death as commanded by the Lord.

So when Christ said in Mat.12:12 that it is well to do good on sabbath days, is He in effect preaching about the 10Cs... or is He preaching about the gospel -- the law of Christ.
---jonweckl on 5/24/12


The sabbath as it was mandated to be observed in the 10Cs is permanent?
---jonweckl on 5/23/12

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

So from this we know that just as it has been from the beginning, and as it is today, from one sabbath to another, that is every sabbath, God's people will gather to worship him.
And as it was in eden, every new month / new moon, everyone will come to the New Jerusalem to partake of the tree of life
---francis on 5/24/12


Haz: "The SDAs are "carnally minded"."

Try to focus carefully on this scripture:

Rom 8:7 Because the CARNAL MIND is enmity against God: for it is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW of God, neither indeed can be.

It is YOU who claim to be NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW, not the SDA's who do indeed claim to be subject to it. How could you possibly have gotten that backwards?


---jerry6593 on 5/24/12


francis, now you need help from me to show you where the passage is at? Are you serious? There is no such passage. You want to show me the text, go for it. Just because Jesus went on the sabbath day to talk to the Jews means nothing. That was the day they gathered to worship. What's that got to do with anything? Jesus knew where He could find most Jews. He would not go on another day, since they would not be there. If Jesus want to talk to the SDA's He would find you guys on Saturday's, following the same laws the Jews followed. If He wanted to talk to born again Christians, He would find most of them in on Sunday worshipping. But Jesus now lives inside of us, He doesn't have to look for us.
---Mark_V. on 5/24/12


StrongAxe on 5/22/12

You ned to spend more tome reading carefully

Some times a feast may last for more than one day, yet only one day of that time is a sabbath

That si why the text mention feasts and sabbath days
---francis on 5/23/12




Only to 'do good' on the sabbath day implies one is not 'doing good' the other six days.
Only to 'worship' on the sabbath day implies one is not 'worshiping' the other six days.
Prescribing a day to 'do good' or to 'worship' implies one may 'do as he pleases' the other six days.
This is simply not how scripture intends. These ideas are misleading at best and heresy at worst.
The 'day of rest' (sabbath) was commanded of Israel as a sign of the covenant God had with them. It had nothing to do with when to worship or do good.
This covenant is old and about to be thrown away were it not for the remnant of Israel.
How fearful must those who adhere to such doctrines be!!
---micha9344 on 5/23/12


Francis> "...about the permanence of sabbath in the ten commandments..."

Really? The sabbath as it was mandated to be observed in the 10Cs is permanent? Can you please enlighten me. Perhaps you can begin by telling us how was the sabbath to be observed according to the 10Cs?
---jonweckl on 5/23/12


From these passages:

NONE OF THESE is on point to what Paul meant in Colossians 2:16-17. As I already pointed out, this CANNOT refer to holiday sabbaths, because if it did, sabbaths would be redundant, as holidays are ALREADY mentioned.

He 9,10,13:8-9, Rv 1:10 have NOTHING to do with the Sabbath.

Ja 2:10-11: Do you refrain from shaving, wear tassels on your clothing, and make your wife live outside the house once a month? If you don't, you are breaking The Law.

Mt 5:17-21, Ja 2:10-11, 1 Co 7:19, Rv 12:17,14:12 talk about obeying God's laws, but none say WHICH laws apply to Christians.

Is 66:22-23: People will worship God FROM week to week and month to month - it doesn't say they will worship ON specific days.
---StrongAxe on 5/22/12


---jonweckl on 5/22/12
In one chapter, there may be several doctrines. This is why the bible says: Isaiah 28:10 here a little, and there a little:

Now if you looked at the long list of texts i posted. You will find two seperate doctrines. One line looks at the feasts of the sanctuary as shadows of good things to come from Colossians 2:16-17,
and another line of doctrine about the permanence of sabbath in the ten commandments as opposed to that of the sabbath fo the other feasts deays. It is also axplained in detail in a blog called:
SDA explain Colossians 2:16-17, and in a recent blog called: Old Covenant Feasts
---francis on 5/22/12


Francis, you like using parts of the scripture and make it fit your belief.

E.g. When you want to prove that the 10Cs will never be changed, you use verses like Mat.5:17 and conclude that "the law" mentioned in the verse means the 10Cs. However, if we use Heb.7:12 which states that it was necessary to change THE LAW, you'd turn around and say it is not the 10Cs being mentioned but only the dietary laws and customs of Moses.

In Mat.5:17 Christ said he did not come to destroy the law -- and you say this is the 10Cs which includes the sabbath law.

"...because he not only HAD BROKEN THE SABBATH..." (Jhn.5:18) So who's correct Francis? Matthew and John seem to be at odds here if we follow your argument.
---jonweckl on 5/22/12


---StrongAxe on 5/21/12
Romans 14:5 Your question is where do I get the idea that he is speaking about feast days, and not the sabbath fo the ten commandments.

From these passages:
Colossians 2:16-17,
Hebrews 9:-Hebrews 10:
Leviticus 23:1-39
Numbers 29:
Matthew 5:17-21
Hebrews 13:8-9
James 2:10-11
1 Corinthians 7:19
Revelation 1:10
Isaiah 66:22-23
Revelation 12:17
Revelation 14:12
---francis on 5/22/12


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francis:

You said: The passage in which you are referencing does not speak of the ten commandments.

It speaks only of the feast days.


You keep saying this, but where did you get that idea? It specifically mentions holidays (i.e. feast days) and then sabbaths. If these sabbaths WERE merely feast days, why mention them TWICE? Stores are often closed on "Sundays and holidays" but never "weekends and Sundays".

One should be believe what the Bible says unless it's CLEAR it must mean something else - and here it's clear it DOESN'T. Why not just believe what it actually says, rather than reading some different meaning between the lines, just so it can conform to your own personal agenda?
---StrongAxe on 5/21/12


Francis> "Well i wish you had told that to God before he placed a time period on it:"

"He AGAIN marks out A CERTAIN DAY (Heb.4:7)... not the same 7th day sabbath of the Israelites, but "ANOTHER DAY" (v.8). There remains A REST(v.9) (one rest) for the people of God -- not 52 rests each year (there being approximately 52 saturdays) but only one: A REST.

It is "a rest" that we should enter into (v.11). "Come unto me,... and I will give you rest..." (Mat.11:28-29)

Regardless of the literal day christians congregate, Christ is with them. (Mat.18,20) and where the spirit of Christ is, there is peace, there is rest, there is sabbath. "...my peace I give unto you..." (Jhn.14:27)
---jonweckl on 5/22/12


"where God commanded man that the Sabbath was to be on Saturday, or that He started creation on Sunday and rested Saturday. .
---Mark_V. on 5/21/12

Sorry mark_V, but in order to give you that text I need some more information from you.

here is what I need to know: Are you saying that the sabbath which SDA keep (ON SATURDAY) is on a different day from the sabbath whcih jesus kept?

Once I get this information that I will give the scripture.
---francis on 5/21/12


---more_excellent_way on 5/20/12

The passage in which you are referencing does not speak of the ten commandments.

It speaks only of the feast days.

Now in the church at that time some christians continued to observe the feast days, and soem did not.
This is what paul is speaking about when he says some count one day above another, and soem count all days alike.

He is not speaking about the sabbath at all.

As proof of that, I offered you scripture which says that even in the new earth all Gods people will keep the sabbath

i also offered you scripture that says not one jotty or tittle will be changed or removed from the ten commandments
---francis on 5/20/12


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//Francis, give up this discussion/arguing between us two. It is pointless for us to continue discussing the "all days alike" versus "one day" issue because....

1) you don't listen.
etc. etc. etc.
----

That is because Francis believes God never changes His law, in fact the Apostles erred when they decided Gentiles need not be circumcised to be legit.

Hebews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Poor Francis simply does not know how to interpret the Bible, he actually believes instead the junk his church is teaching.
---lee1538 on 5/20/12


More Excellent Way, you are 100% correct concerning Francis. He has been so decieved and brainwashed by SDA's he probably will never, ever accept the truth.

Just look at all the times Francis has been caught in lies, along with the lies which are being spread by SDA's have been exposed. Francis will go on a rant.

Look at all the times Francis would not answer questions, when someone noticed SDA teachings which clearly goes against what is written in scripture, and questioned Francis about them. Francis avoids these questions like they are a plague.

If a person wants to know the truth concerning SDA's, they need to google WHAT SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST WON'T TELL YOU, and HIDDEN HERISIES OF SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST.
---Rob on 5/20/12


francis, you give me stories of what man were doing and not once did you provide one passage
"where God commanded man that the Sabbath was to be on Saturday, or that He started creation on Sunday and rested Saturday. Not one, Zero."

If you believe so hard that He did, why do you not show one passage. Your whole religion stands on Saturday and to this day you provide nothing but stories of man. We know what man did in the Old Testament, and we also know what man begin to do in the New Testament and why.
---Mark_V. on 5/21/12


Francis, give up this discussion/arguing between us two. It is pointless for us to continue discussing the "all days alike" versus "one day" issue because....

1) you don't listen.
2) you don't offer any EXPLANATIONS.
3) there is no verse that has the words "Jesus is sabbath". All you want to do is OPPOSE ME and be contrary.

Scripture SPECIFICALLY SAYS "weak in faith".

It also clearly states "one day" or "all days alike" is the issue (eternal) and indicates that we should notice there is a CLEAR CHOICE to be made.

You have clearly and repeatedly avoided even COMMENTING ON "weak in faith" (there is a REASON for that, WHAT is that reason?).
---more_excellent_way on 5/20/12


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---Mark_V. on 5/20/12
Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Unless you think that the sabbath which was celebrated in the bible was on another day besides SATURDAY?


---more_excellent_way on 5/20/12

No need to argue. I have already given you at least 5 scriptures that says the sabbath was, is, and always will be a day of the week. Now I await your scripture that says Jesus is the sabbath.

It should be something like this:
1 Cor 5:7 Christ our passover
Hebrews 3:1 the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus,

more_excellent_way 3:16 Christ our sabbath
---francis on 5/20/12


francis, you are still avoiding me. I asked you for one passage on the other blogs and you said you already gave it to me but I have read almost all of your answers and none have one passage where God commanded man that Saturday was to be the Sabbath day. Or that He started creation on Sunday and rested Saturday. Maybe you just forgot. I will wait.
---Mark_V. on 5/20/12


I really don't want to argue with you, but I do want to share with you one of the most amazing experiences in my life that is repeated over and over again by believers.

Believers will repeatedly claim that scripture is very, very meaningful to them (VERY MEANINGFUL), BUT, when they see words or even whole verses that they don't like, they simply IGNORE THEM and continue to argue their favorite verses taught by man and DELIBERATELY not reply with an explanation for...."WEAK IN FAITH".

DON'T think you are fooling me, I see you REPEATEDLY avoid giving an alternate explantion for the words "WEAK IN FAITH".
---more_excellent_way on 5/20/12


the man who is "WEAK IN FAITH".. chooses a "TIME PERIOD" for sabbath?.
---more_excellent_way on 5/19/12
Lets play show me yours, and I will show you mine:

Here are my texts that show sabbath is a DAY of the week:
Exodus 16:30 So the people rested on the seventh DAY.
Exodus 20:10 But the seventh DAY is the sabbath of the LORD thy God
Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath, my holy DAY:
Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's DAY,

Here is my text that says in in the new earth we have BOTH Jesus and Sabbath:

Isaiah 66:22-23 the new earth,..it shall come to pass, that from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

show JESUS IS SABBATH
---francis on 5/19/12


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I have no intention or desire of "judging", but the scriptures do say...

Romans 14:1 the man who is "WEAK IN FAITH" (might that be meaningful to the person who chooses a "TIME PERIOD" for sabbath?.....I guess not).

The Lord makes it obvious that honoring Him should be the goal, therefore, it should not be a matter of contention/arguement (you truly are FULLY "welcome", Francis), but maybe the words "weak in faith" might be meaningful to those who believe scripture is an authority even though it did not hang on the cross.

Matthew 28:18
"And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" (ONLY Jesus hung on the cross).
---more_excellent_way on 5/19/12


Daniel 7:23-25 The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth,.. And he shall.. think to change times and laws:

When compared with these scripture

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Where is the only source of a change in the law of God?

Add this text:

Revelation 13:2 and the dragon gave him ( THE BEAST) his power, and his seat, and great authority.

and the picture is now clear who is behind this antisabbath movement: Satan, working through the 4th beast
---francis on 5/19/12


You have made scripture your master and you walk by the book, not jesus. You need THE BOOK to approve of everything you think, do, and say
---more_excellent_way on 5/19/12

Thank you?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Although I do not know how one can walk by the book and not walk by what Jesus says
John 5:39 Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me
---francis on 5/19/12


Yes, early Christians gathered at the synagogues on the sabbath - because that was the tradition. ---StrongAxe on 5/19/12

NO! Because it was a command:

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation,

Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth,..it shall come to pass, from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---francis on 5/19/12


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---StrongAxe on 5/19/12
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

FULLY EXPLAINED IN A BLOG CALLED: SDA Explain Colossians 2:16 and also in blog called: Old Covenant Feasts

Please read these two blogs





---more_excellent_way on 5/19/12
I do not understand your post. You seem to be saying " put away the bible and follow God." is that what you are saying?
---francis on 5/19/12


more_excellent_way. Unfortunately Francis has no understanding of scripture.

1Cor 2:13,14 tells us: "These things we also speak, not in words which mans wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Francis understands scripture as a natural man.
---Haz27 on 5/19/12


francis:

Yes, early Christians gathered at the synagogues on the sabbath - because that was the tradition. This fact DOES NOT IN ANY WAY prove that the Apostles TAUGHT that the sabbath must be kept in old testament fashion. You are making deductions based on what you think they must have thought, not what they ACTUALLY said they taught.

Let's see what the Paul DID, SPECIFICALLY teach on this subject:

Collossians 2:16-17
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come
, but the body is of Christ."

So, please, as Paul asked, stop telling us that we're wrong. Give it up already!
---StrongAxe on 5/19/12


Yes, there are people whose enmity for the Sabbath has them limiting it to what they can understand and dictate that others copy-cat, instead of submitting to how Jesus has us rest, as the intended purpose (Matthew 11:28-30, Hebrews 4:1-12). Why? Because they are limited to glorifying days and themselves, when in fact Jesus and His rest (Hebrews 4:1-12) from our own works is eternal.

Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath told that man to carry his bed on the Sabbath > that was not enmity for him to do that work which Jesus told him to do!!!! > John 5:8-18 > though "He broke the Sabbath", as it says in John 5:18.

"it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" (in Galatians 2:20).
---willie_c: on 5/19/12


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Francis, it is pointless to argue. You have made scripture your master and you walk by the book, not Jesus. You don't realize it, but God has become an instruction book to you because you have decided to enjoy the pride of being a RELIGION MASTER. You need THE BOOK to approve of everything you think, do, and say (the flesh human being becomes a souless "beast" instead of a "living, breathing soul").

King David was a man after God's own heart. We should all imitate that, but we have all been taught to make THE BOOK our goal instead.
---more_excellent_way on 5/19/12


---StrongAxe on 5/18/12
LOOK CLOSER:
Acts 13:42 the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Acts 13:43 many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God

"the Jews and religious proselytes" these were christians who had gathered on the sabbath to worship. they lived in this city.
If these christians were not keeping the sabbath and keeping sunday, the phrase would be NEXT DAY ( which is when you claim christians gathered) but it is NEXT SABBATH which is when THE NT says christians gathered
---francis on 5/18/12


.....JESUS is the ETERNAL sabbath.
---more_excellent_way on 5/18/12
You would have to have some sort of text for that. Just as the bible says Jesus is: The light, the lamb, the bread, the high priest, it should also have said that Jesus is the sabbath.

Remember the bible clearly says that in the new earth we will come before Jesus every sabbath and new moon. So jesus cannot be the sabbath.


---StrongAxe on 5/18/
Moses did not command the sabbath. The sabbath commandment came from God himself, NOT FROM MOSES, who also wrote it on two tablets of stone. On the very same tables of stone was honour father and mother.

Both Moses and God makes a distinction between LAW OF MOSES and COMMANMENTS OF GOD
---francis on 5/18/12


The Lord will tarry with the sincere who have not yet learned to stand on their own feet while they walk in order to honor Him, but because they hold themselves accountable to THEIR "master" (scripture), they are instead mistrusting the one who wants to be called "Abba Father" and be a caring "lord" ("lord" is a term used for a royal caretaker that CHERISHES and cares about those who ACCEPT the "lords" mentoring).

Is SCRIPTURE your master, OR is JESUS your mentor and lord? (choose today whom you shall serve). Have you taken lord Jesus at His word today......or is SCRIPTURE your master (and "sabbath"?).

.....JESUS is the ETERNAL sabbath.
---more_excellent_way on 5/18/12


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francis:

Far from commanding sabbath observance, Matthew 12:12 says it is PERMISSIBLE to do good on the sabbath.

No apostles commanding sabbath keeping in Acts 13. They just preached in the synagogues then because people were there then. If a preacher preached at the mall every Thursday, that would not be a command to keep Thursday holy.

Jesus taught how to better keep the sabbath.

Yes, because he preached to JEWS who were required to keep it.

The church practices it without question

No. SDA do.

The NT was written...

The NT contains two paradigms:
1) Jesus taught a perfection of the old Mosaic covenant
2) The Apostles taught the new covenant, no longer under Moses
---StrongAxe on 5/18/12


jerry6593. Rom 10,3 "Christ is the END of the law for righteousness..."
END here means END (not goal).

Consider Rom 8:2 "SET FREE from the law"
Gal 5:18 "NOT UNDER the law"
1Tim 1:9 "the law is NOT MADE for a righteous man, but for....ungodly and sinners"

The SDAs are "carnally minded". They are still in the flesh establishing righteousness through works of the law. (Gal 2:18, Gal 3:3, Gal 5:4, Rom 7:5)

SDAs claim to be under grace but then mix it with works of the law. This is being lukewarm. You can't mix grace and works, Rom 11:6
---Haz27 on 5/18/12


And what has the Sabbath commandment which has application ONLY with the individual, to do either with God or with ones neighbor?
---lee1538 on 5/18/
In the Middle east culture, it is considered a great insult and disrespect to put your foot on an individual or an object.

When we do not keep the sabbath day holy, God calls it an insult and disrespect to him.

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY,

That is why God commands to REMOVE YOUR FOOT/ stop insulting, stop disrespecting what is Holy to God

When we show respect for what is holy to God, then we show respect for God
---francis on 5/18/12


Neither Jesus nor any of the apostles are recorded as having taught sabbath-keeping, ---StrongAxe on 5/18/12

Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days

Acts 13:42 the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Jesus taught how to better keep the sabbath. The church practices it without question

The NT was written
1: To correcct wrong behavior
2: To encourage the saints

There IS NOT an issue in the church as to whether or not christians should keep the sabbath. It is accepted as God's commandments and kept by all the saints.
---francis on 5/18/12


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//Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Matthew 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
---
And what has the Sabbath commandment which has application ONLY with the individual, to do either with God or with ones neighbor? NOTHING!
---lee1538 on 5/18/12


Why there is such enmity against the Sabbath?
---Sandy_G on 5/16/12
The sabbath commandments tells us who God is:
Exodus 20:11 in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

His name: The LORD,
His Title:Creator,
His area of rulership: Heaven and earth.


"Sunday is our mark of authority..... The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

---francis on 5/18/12


francis:

Exactly. If you do only two things (i.e. love God and your neigbor), you have done all that Jesus demands of you.

Note that sabbath-keeping is conspicuously absent from this, because it does not express love for neighbor, nor love for man. God made the sabbath for man, NOT man for the sabbath. Neither Jesus nor any of the apostles are recorded as having taught sabbath-keeping, even though every other one of the remaining nine commandments is explicitly mention directly or indirectly (again, because all of them are covered by one or two of the Love commandments).
---StrongAxe on 5/18/12


Matthew 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Matthew 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
---francis on 5/18/12


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""Now who is the carnally minded, the Law-keeping SDA or the lawless ones like you?""
Didn't the Pharisees ask a similar question, have the same belief, thought the same way?
---micha9344 on 5/18/12


Sandy_G: "Jerry 6593: Your answer was really helpful. Thank you. Seems like many of us have misunderstood that the law was bondage rather than sin. Thanks again."

Thank you, Sandy. It is not often that someone on this website appreciates biblical truth. They are generally more interested in being right in their own current beliefs than accepting what God may have for them.


---jerry6593 on 5/18/12


Haz27: "Christ is the END of the law, FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone that believeth. Rom 10:3"

The word "end" in this scripture means "goal" - not destruction - just as it sometimes does in English today (compare Rom 4:16).


"But the likes of the SDAs are carnal"

You've got it backwards!

Rom 8:7 Because the CARNAL MIND is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the LAW of God, neither indeed can be.

Now who is the carnally minded, the Law-keeping SDA or the lawless ones like you?


---jerry6593 on 5/18/12


francis, I repeat in answer to your statements,

works have no place in bringing salvation.
1. "But to him who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness." (Rom. 4:5).
2. "Now to him that works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt." (Rom. 4:4).
3. "Not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 2:9).
4. "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." (Rom. 9:16).
5. "Why? because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, "by works of the law. For they stumble at the stumbling stone" (Rom. 9:32).
---Mark_V. on 5/18/12


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the law WAS ACTUALLY A YOKE.
---StrongAxe on 5/17/12

Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath, ...my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable,

Psalms 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty

LIBERTY, DELIGHT, A YOKE


Is paul placing people under a YOKE when he says this:
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

I am 100% sure that you missunderstood paul
---francis on 5/18/12


francis:

Paul goes into great detail about us no longer being under the yoke of the law. Such a comment would be meaningless, unless the law WAS ACTUALLY A YOKE.


Rob:

Technically, even though lying is wrong, it does not violate the Ten Commandments. Only bearing false witness AGAINST someone else does.
---StrongAxe on 5/17/12


Francis, once again you have been caught in another lie, which also once again proves you and SDA's do not keep the ten commandments.

If what you wrote is true, why do SDA's have people working on Saturdays in their hospitals and other institutions?
---Rob on 5/17/12


Stopping physical work, itself, is not bondage.

However, imposing this on others - i.e. forbidding others from working (or telling them that they sin if they work) IS bondage.
---StrongAxe on 5/17/12

Does God know about this?

Someone should have told God about that before he COMMANDED THIS:
Exodus 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
---francis on 5/17/12


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Christ is the END of the law, FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone that believeth. Rom 10:3

Here we see God says our righteousness is not judged by the law, once we believe on Jesus. Jesus Christ has brought an end to righteousness by the law. Instead it's righteousness by faith.

But the likes of the SDAs are carnal, walking in the flesh, establishing righteousness through works of the law, thus not submitting to God's righteousness (Rom 10:3).

Christians however, are led by the Spirit and thus not under the law (Gal 5:18).
---Haz27 on 5/17/12


Exodus 31:14 "keep the sabbath, because it is holy for YOU" [JEWS].

Many believers choose to be BOUND/restricted by the old law, and RITUALS.

Leviticus 25:6 "The sabbath of the land shall provide food for you" (I walk in new covenant land and eat solid food, today "The Son of Man is "LORD of the sabbath").

Exodus 31:16 "Therefore [ONLY] the people of Israel shall keep the sabbath".


Romans 14:1 "As for the man who is weak in faith"..."it is before his own master that he stands or falls"......"One man esteems one day while another....all days alike".

Don't make it a work/regulation or requirement, but do it as HONOR TO THE LORD.
---more_excellent_way on 5/17/12


---StrongAxe How would you like it if you were racing home one father's day after work, trying to get home to honour your father, but the trafic was slow and you did not make it by midnight on father's day, and then a police officer pulled you over, charged you with not honouring your father, and then shot you on the spot (death penalty as required by the Law of Moses)? Would that meet with your approval? THAT kind of law would not make one rest easy, but rather fill one with terror. THAT is bondage.
---francis on 5/17/12


francis:

Stopping physical work, itself, is not bondage.

However, imposing this on others - i.e. forbidding others from working (or telling them that they sin if they work) IS bondage.

How would you like it if you were racing home on Friday night after work, trying to get home before sunset, but traffic was slow, and sunset happened, and then a police officer pulled you over, charged you with Sabbath breaking, and then shot you on the spot (death penalty as required by the Law of Moses)? Would that meet with your approval? THAT kind of law would not make one rest easy, but rather fill one with terror. THAT is bondage.
---StrongAxe on 5/17/12


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---CraigA on 5/17/1
1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law.

I would hope that you know that the 4th commandment is only 1/10, and as you say we have no excuse to trangress the law, none of them

On another blog you asked my about recieving the spirit by keeping sabbath, I asked you about receiving the spirit by Honouring father and Mother.

The 4 commandments is keep the sabbath, the 5th is honour father and mother.

Do you honour your father and mother by fear or love?

I treat the 4th commandment as one of ten, no greater than the first or tenth.

No excuse to sin, means I have no excuse to dishonour my father, nor do I have any excuse to not keep the sabbath
---francis on 5/17/12


being INSIDE Jesus, are living the ETERNAL SABBATH ("THE LORD'S DAY" is the sabbath ETERNALLY, it is not a "TIME" period).
---more_excellent_way on 5/17/12
Well i wish you had told that to God before he placed a time period on it:

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God

Leviticus 23:32 from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

And please inform God that in the new earth we need not have a sabbath because we are inside Christ:

Isaiah 66:22 the new earth,..it shall come to pass, that from.. one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Try to keep God updated on your ideas
---francis on 5/17/12


Francis... we are DEAD to the 10 commandments (Romans 7:4-6). There is NO condemnation in Jesus Christ (Romans 8:1).


But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter

It doesnt give us an excuse to sin, but it does take away the penalty for breaking the law which is DEATH. We died with Christ! (Romans 6:2) How can the law condemn one who is already dead?
Do you not even understand your position in Christ?

Serve God by his law now out of LOVE in the Spirit, not fear of condemnation. If you fear the law will condemn you then you aren't living by faith in Jesus Christ.
---CraigA on 5/17/12


The ten commandments are actualy passive. They require you to do nothing.
Most of then say do not, do not, do not. One says to hold you parents in high regard, which does not require you to do anything physical, and one ( the one most people seem take issue with) requires you to actualy STOP PHYSICAL WORK and rest. Anyone who finds the ten commandments to be physical works is not yet converted

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

How can anyone claim that to stop physical labour, is bondage or a burden?
---francis on 5/17/12


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Jesus came in the "fulness of time" (the completion/END of time). He ended the age of time and began the age of ETERNITY ("the fulness of time", Ephesians 1:10).

If a believer decides to live spiritually inside Jesus's body....(in Jesus, spirits have no gender and are neither Jew nor non-Jew, (Gentile unbeliever), Galatians 3:28, 1 Corinthians 10:2 (we were baptized into JESUS, not Moses) they, being INSIDE Jesus, are living the ETERNAL SABBATH ("THE LORD'S DAY" is the sabbath ETERNALLY, it is not a "TIME" period).

Matthew 12:32 "either in this age or in the age to come".

Mark 10:30 and Luke 18:30 "and in the age to come eternal life"....verses from RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 5/17/12


I agree with StrongAxe, there is no enmity against the Sabbath. The opposition is to the works of law doctrine of the likes of SDAs.

Rom 8:7 is referring to the likes of SDAs. They are "carnal" similar to Israel "pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law". Rom 9:31

"being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God". Rom 10:3

You can't mix grace and works, Rom 11:6
---Haz27 on 5/17/12


Jerry 6593: Your answer was really helpful. Thank you. Seems like many of us have misunderstood that the law was bondage rather than sin. Thanks again.
---Sandy_G on 5/17/12


Axe: "a yoke of obedience to a law that Jesus died to free us in bondage from"

Herein is the crux of the matter. The Bible defines sin as the transgression of the LAW - the Ten Commandment law as a minimum. It also records that Jesus came to free us from the bondage of SIN - NOT from the bondage of the LAW. Jesus FULFILLED the penalty required for the transgression of the LAW - namely DEATH - the price of our sins. If the LAW could have been destroyed, then there would have been no need for Christ's sacrifice. Those who willingly break the Ten Commandment LAW, and teach others to do the same, are promoting SIN, and are called LEAST in heaven.


---jerry6593 on 5/17/12


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Sandy, Strongaxe is correct. Here is how I read (Rom. 8:7) in the context.
You have to start in (v. 3).
"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righeous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit"
The reason the law cannot save us is because it was weak in the flesh. But through God's Son we can fulfill the righteous requirement of the law if we walk according to the Spirit. And only those in Christ walk in the Spirit. We now walk in the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.
---Mark_V. on 5/17/12


There is not "enmity against the Sabbath". Rather, it is opposition against the ideas of those who would impose a yoke of obedience to a law that Jesus died to free us in bondage from. If someone wants to keep the Sabbath, or be circumsized, or refrain from pork, or even pray seven times a day facing Salt Lake City while wearing a tinfoil hat, he's free to do so, and all blessings to him. But that doesn't give him a right to shove such beliefs down everybody else's throats.
---StrongAxe on 5/16/12


Teaching circumcision was not an accident, nor a missunderstand of the gospel DEFINATLY NOT done by any of the apostles.

Paul gave the reason why some jews taught circumcision,
Galatians 4:17 They zealously affect you, [but] not well, yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.
Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised, only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

This was an intentional perversion of the gospel to please jewish leaders, and avoid persicution
---francis on 5/16/12


It was first taught that in addition to Jesus, a person must be circumsized and follow the Law:

Acts 15:5 "But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses"

But it was decided by the Apostles under the leadership of the Holy Spirit that the Gentiles would only need to follow certain things:

Act 15:28-29 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication, if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well..."
---Mark_Eaton on 5/16/12


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Many people think the sabbath is a day of limitation that is not true. In the Bible the sabbath is a good thing for physical and spiritual growth. Physical-in the Law it says that "do no ordinary work" that means take the day off go play golf, watch a movie, etc. Spiritually - The Law says leave the fields unplanted every seventh year or do not gather manna (food) on the sabbath the purpose of this is to remind us that God will sustain and provide. Jesus put it this way "Do not worry about tomorrow..." A large portion of Luke is dedicated to observance of the sabbath, so it has always been a problem. Same as tithing people have forgotten the purpose of the Law for the action of the Law.
---Scott1 on 5/16/12


Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---francis on 5/16/12


No one is against the Sabbath.

What Christians here are against is the neo-Galatian idea that Gentiles are bound to it and the OT dietary laws, which some are insisting.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/16/12


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