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Are Prayer Cloths Scriptural

Another blog starting discussing the use of prayer clothes. Do you think this practice is scriptural?

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 ---KarenD on 5/16/12
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Yes, things and people can be sanctified through touch, or transference of God's shekinah glory upon whatsoever it touches. Recall the woman whom has the issue of blood for 12 years and spent all her money on doctors which could not heal her, and how she touched "the hem" of Jesus' garment and received healing? (Mk.5:25-34). And recall when the dead man was let down into the godly man Elisha's grave, when the dead man touched Elisha's bones he resurrected back to life? (II Kg.13:21).
---Eloy on 5/28/12


I found that my faith grows with every answered prayer,not just mine,but when I hear of others being touched by God too,it increases my faith. I am blessed to have a faith walking Mom and relatives who taught me from a very young age to trust God. We can pass faith down to future generations by teaching our families,like mine did me,how to trust God and put faith in action through prayer. Example,when my great grandson was about 2 1/2 years old his fever went so high,very fast,and he went into convulsions,they called the ambulance,but before it got there his 6 year old sister,laid her hand on him and said"God fix my little brother". God did. That is because she had been prayed for all her life as I was.
---Darlene_1 on 5/28/12


I never read where Jesus gave many ways of increasing your faith as you say.
//MarkV

I guess you don't remember saying this, huh?
You did.
I have been saying this the whole time!
You keep rejecting what I say.
If a piece of cloth being prayed over and given to you, helps you to believe Christ will do what he says he will do, then that is INCREASING your faith.
If using a rosary helps you then use it. And from my understanding the rosary is not just used to pray to Mary.
But it is not me who rejected the increasing of faith. YOU DID.
It is ALL about INCREASING your FAITH in GOD.
(not yelling, just emphasizing)
---ginger on 5/28/12


ginger, thank you for agreeing with me when you said,

"He uses situations, people, objects, the entire Bible to INCREASE a person's faith."

And what did I say, Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God. So what did you present with your answer, the word of God, the entire Bible.
---Mark_V. on 5/28/12


I never read where Jesus gave many ways of increasing your faith as you say.// MarkV

Then I don't know what Bible you are reading.
He uses situations, people, objects, the entire Bible to INCREASE a person's faith.
Our faith grows as we walk in Christ from the size of a mustard seed to a big tree growing by the river rooted and grounded in Christ.
Christ used water, mud, even the hem of his garment to heal people and increase their faith.
If you don't believe God can make your faith can grow, then why did you answer amen to my post on "faith can move mountains?"

You need to go back and read Hebrews 11 too.
---ginger on 5/27/12




ginger, your answer to Darline is the reason I said prayer cloth's are a farce. Word of faith teachings. God speaking about faith,
"Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of God"
I never read where Jesus gave many ways of increasing your faith as you say.
I have given you the Word of God and you turn around and reject it. I put down His Word and you reject it. Then someone gives you a prayer cloth and your faith increases. Then you say, praying to a rosary is the same as a prayer cloth. Praying to a rosary is praying to Mary. Doesn't that tell you it is a farce to do that? What kind of denomination do you attend that teaches prayer cloth's? You should leave it and read the Word so your faith can increase.
---Mark_V. on 5/27/12


Darlene1,
Yes, I do feel that it gets picked apart.
I have used one also. I need help with my faith on a certain situation. My church prayed with me and gave me that cloth and the situation was resolved 100%.

I see the cloths as the rcc sees the rosary. I see nothing wrong with either one. Christ used many objects to help increase a person's faith.
I don't really think this is about weak faith in general. I believe there are certain areas in our lives where our faith is weak. We each have one and Christ helps us to get through those by sending/using what we need increase our faith in that area.
---ginger on 5/26/12


Ginger some may need a prayer cloth to have faith,thank you for saying none here do,but with due respect that isn't true for most. Even for those who use them it doesn't mean their faith is weak,it can just mean they know they can comfort and the peoples prayers can help. They really aren't that big a deal. I've been a Commited Christian 63 years and have used one once,which helped. I prayed over one once for a woman terminal with cancer,was she cured,no,but it reminded her of my love and prayers for her. No one in the Bible could have taken anything from Paul they were not suspose to have or use. Ginger do you ever feel maybe the Bible gets picked to little pieces for no good reason at all,I do. I have to wonder who is this hurting? God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/25/12


ALL in scripture is for our learning - the good and the bad. Christians are rewarded when they are good and punished when they are bad.
Steveng on 5/24/12

Is this really the understanding you received from God
or is this the understanding man believe of the word of God
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/25/12


Strongaxe, I completely agree with what you said. Anything Steven added is included in what you said. All scripture is beneficial for us to learn, the historical facts, the warnings, an the teachings that apply to us as believers. An so what you said, said it all,

"Just because somebody in the Bible did something, that is not necessarily a mandate for us to do the same. Some things in the Bible are teachings, some are historical facts, and some are warnings."
---Mark_V. on 5/25/12




StrongAxe: "We should't read the story of Abraham and Isaac, then grab our kids..."

The Abraham story was about faith. No one should "grab their kids" wielding a knife unless, of course, God expressly told you to.

StrongAxe: "We shouldn't look to Solomon..."

Another story of faith and obedience.

StrongAxe: "Just because somebody in the Bible did something, that is not necessarily a mandate for us to do the same. Some things in the Bible are teachings, some are historical facts, and some are warnings."

ALL in scripture is for our learning - the good and the bad. Christians are rewarded when they are good and punished when they are bad.
---Steveng on 5/24/12


Someone tell me if Im clear?

Youre talking about a piece of fabric, someone pray with?
And what, give it to someone else to pray with, and so on?
Like a chain letter?

Im asking, is this what God said or did he say:
Joh_4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

It doesnt sound like he talking about a rag!
These are just pieces of clothes right?
I dont get it, and what the difference between this and a statue?

See my point?
Peace all
---TheSeg on 5/24/12


Steven, how can you authenticate what you do comes from the Spirit of God? It's impossible. How can you proof what you do are say come from God? Will God say, yes, believe Steven, it comes from Me." God speaks to the spirit of man and no one can hear but the person God is speaking to.
People would have to put their faith in you, not in God, in order to believe what you do or say. Men fall short of the glory of God for all man fail. The only way a person can know that what another says is true, is if what the person says comes from the word of God, because that only is the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 5/25/12


Trish, you are right that when we go through some hard times it means a lot that people are praying for us. But how do they know to pray for you unless you or someone else mentions the trouble you are in? If you asked for prayer, you can be sure your brothers and sisters in Christ will begin to pray for you. They don't each have to tell you they are praying. Prayer is so important because it shows our dependence upon God. Not that we depend that God does what we want, but as Cluny said, "when I pray for someone I ask God to have mercy and for His will to be done in him or her." I asked Darline for prayer, because she is a prayer warrior and others who hear, who are also prayer warriors will also begin to pray.
---Mark_V. on 5/25/12


MarkV: When I was hospitalized for two weeks in January, I was never discouraged, or upset about all that was going on with me, because I knew people at church were praying for me. It meant a lot to me to have that assurance.

A person's emotional state has a lot to do with their physical healing. Therefore, I believe you are wrong in saying that a person does not need to know that God's children are praying for them.

The night before my surgery, I told a friend I would like to have someone from church pray with me before my surgery. My friend, our pastor, and an elder all came at different times, and I had perfect peace about the surgery.
---Trish on 5/24/12


Cluny, Stron Axe, Markv
I love all of your answers!
Even though none of us on here need a cloth or some other item to have faith when we pray, there are some who do.
Most people who ask for them are the ones with very small faith and they need that piece of cloth to cling to.
I believe there is a time in our walk that we must be able to let things like that go and just know that God hears us and knows we only want his will done for us and others that we pray for.

I have learned and grown in Christ to understand that some people need that extra for their faith to grow.
---ginger on 5/24/12


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\\Darline, you are right but let me say that you don't have to know that people are praying for you when you ask for prayer.\\

Since I don't pretend to know all a person needs, when I pray for someone I ask God to have mercy and for His will to be done in him or her.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/24/12


Steveng:

Yes, everyting in scripture is beneficial for our understanding, but it doesn't all apply to us.

We should't read the story of Abraham and Isaac, then grab our kids in one hand, a knife in another, and race up the nearest mountain.

We shouldn't look to Solomon (the wisest man who ever lived), and build ourselves a harem of 1000 women.

Just because somebody in the Bible did something, that is not necessarily a mandate for us to do the same. Some things in the Bible are teachings, some are historical facts, and some are warnings.
---StrongAxe on 5/24/12


Darline, you are right but let me say that you don't have to know that people are praying for you when you ask for prayer. I don't answer everyone who needs prayer because we as believers should get right with it. I know if I ask for prayer there are many who are praying. They don't have to tell me they are, I know they are. I do tell some times for one reason only. Because most of the people who ask for prayer are women. And I want to make them feel assured that man like me, are also praying. They might not say they are but they are. I know I can count on all of you to pray for me when I ask. Though we are not in heaven yet, we have access now to pray in the Spirit. And God does what is necessary and right for all who ask for prayer.
---Mark_V. on 5/24/12


Paul was a tent maker. The cloths taken from his body were most likely the very cloths he used to wipe the sweat from his brow. Nowhere does it say these were prayed over before they were taken. Paul had such a revelation of Jesus as He is (including His name as Healer) that that revelation worked out from his spirit, into his soul, and out through his body. Those cloths from his body were saturated with what flowed out of him....and it wasn't just sweat.
---blogger8980 on 5/23/12


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Mark V,my brother-in-Christ I accept you didn't answer with a mean spirit. I agree,no power in a piece of cloth but there is power in knowing someone cares and prays for you. There's no difference than having a prayer partner across town pray and agree with you in prayer,just as you are praying for the women with cancer. The practice is only as good as the intentions and the people who do it. Too many times the way its used now is evil,trying to get money by sending objects which doesn't do anyone good. I am strongly against speak it into being or Name it and Claim It. That abuse of the righteous disappoints them,which affects their faith in God when they don't receive. Most people in this age have only seen the counterfeit,not the real.
---Darlene_1 on 5/23/12


If the cloth that is received does not take part in healing, then the use of Acts 19:11-12 is unscriptural.
Trying to push prayer into this verse is adding to the Word of God.
I do not know why someone would need a piece of cloth to let them know someone else is praying for them.
Paul actually used letters for this. These letters were placed with other scripture and is part of the our Bible today. No mention of him sending cloths out for remembrance
Paul even requested to be prayed for. No mention of him requesting a cloth for remembrance.
Prayer cloths are unbiblical.
---micha9344 on 5/23/12


Mark_V.: "Everything that happened that's written, does not always apply to us."

EVERYTHING in scripture is for our benevite - both good and bad.

Mark_V.: "What we do today can never be authenticate it comes from God. We can never proof it does."

Yes, it can. By the spirit.
---Steveng on 5/23/12


Prayer cloths are for weak christians to use.

But do not get caught into a trap by repeating your prayers like many do with prayer cloths and roseries. As their faith grows and matures, they will put away their worldly objects and have 100% faith in God who works through them.
---Steveng on 5/23/12


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prayer clothes are a crock of mess. Jesus Christ is my intercessor..not some rag someone sends in the mail.I pray no one really believes that.
---shira4368 on 5/21/12

Elder, this is what I was addressing shira on. I have not said anything out of the way to her.

And yes Paul used prayer cloths. A piece of cloth that he prayed over.
The cloth itself does not have any power. It is the prayer.
The cloth is proof that someone loves you and is praying for you. Especially if they cannot be there to see you do it. I hope that makes sense.
And Cluny, just cause you say they are relics mean nothing. The cloth is not was healed people, it was God through prayer that did.
---ginger on 5/22/12


Cluny 5-21 & 5-22 great answers!!
---Elder on 5/22/12


11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them.

Cluny, are you saying that they cut pieces of Paul's clothes?
Nah, I don't think so. I believe Paul took aprons and cloths and prayed over them. I believe this because it says through Paul's hands.
God used Paul's hands to work miracles. These cloths would not be relics. Paul's hands should be, according your way of thinking, that is.
---ginger on 5/22/12


Sister Darline, you said,

" I beg,please don't have a mean spirit about this."

Sister, It's not a mean spirit why I answer. I know prayer clothes have no power whatsoever. While the gesture might be good, the practice is a very bad. People begin to practice what they believe.
We have to stop believing in such nonsense. Marilyn Heckey once said that speaking releases the ability of God. Start speaking it into being. Speak to your billfold. "you big billfold full of money." Speak to your checkbood, say, "You, checkbook, you. You have never been so prosperous since I owned you. You are just jammed full of money." Such practices are rediculous. That you can create what you speak.
---Mark_V. on 5/23/12


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\\Acts 19:11-12,Paul did\\

ginger, these were things that St. Paul actually used, sometimes called second class relics. (First class relics are pieces of the body of a saint.)

It does NOT say that St. Paul prayed over cloths and sent them out. It says that his garments were TAKEN from him.

Not the same thing as home made relics of prayer cloths.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/22/12


Prayer clothes have no power,prayer does,"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much","Pray you one for another and so fulfill the Law of Love". Yes,those begging preachers cloths are nothing but that doesn't mean ones prayed over by honest Christians are nothing. Those people who received Paul's cloths trusted Paul and knew he was in touch with God,all the cloths did was to help those people release their own faith to God believing they would be received because Paul's prayers were received. It is simply an agreement between two or more people joined together and released to God,"If two agree as touching anything in earth it is done in heaven." I beg,please don't have a mean spirit about this.
---Darlene_1 on 5/22/12


\\These conformed that Paul was God's messenger since there was no complete N.T. to use to determine the truth of his message\\

Miracles mean nothing.

Simon Magus performed miracles, too.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/21/12


ginger, you shouldn't talk to Shirl like that.
Since our paper money is made of a linen mix why not send someone $50.00 and say I'm praying for you? It would mean more than some rag that you don't want laying around cluttering up your house.
---Elder on 5/21/12


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\\Cluny so when Christ said we would be able to do what he did, you think he was only talking to the disciples?\\


Cluny: "No, I don't think so. I KNOW He was talking only to His immediate disciples. You don't actually think He was talking to YOU, do you?"


All of scripture is talking to all the people in the world yesterday and today.
---Steveng on 5/21/12


//prayer cloths. Just that they are scriptural and used.
---ginger on 5/21/12//

the prayer clothes of today are not scriptural:

Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

it did not say that these miracles were bestowed on anyone else. therefore, only certain cloths that Paul touched were touched by God not the ones used today.

in fact, if scriptural, shouldn't the modern prayer cloths more accurately be called healing cloths?

(although, now it makes me wonder: why some argue that certain "miracles" are handed down by forefathers but turn around and deny that this could be.)
---aka on 5/21/12


ginger, (Acts 19:11,12) no where tells us that Paul taught prayer clothes. I don't know where you come out with that. "Now God worked unusual Miracles by the hands of Paul" First, God worked the miracles, Second He worked them by Paul's hands. These confirmed that Paul was God's instrument or messenger. Handkerchiefs, aprons were idoms. The belief that mystical power could be so transmitted was widespread in the ancient world even believing that Peters shadow could heal ( 5:15: Matt. 9:21). In contrast Simon Magus and Bar-jesus were other possible examples of such people. they exercised what Jesus and the Apostle did over demons, in the name of Jesus they were overpowered.
---Mark_V. on 5/22/12


MarkV and Cluny
Here is the scripture.

Acts 19:11-12,Paul did.

Shira, you should not talk to people like that.

And there is nothing wrong with any of us praying for you or anyone.
In fact we are told to do so.
Yes Christ is our intercessor, but we still should pray FOR each other.

A prayer cloth is a sign that someone prayed for you. It has no power in or of its self.
And no one is telling you to believe in prayer cloths. Just that they are scriptural and used.
---ginger on 5/21/12


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prayer clothes are a crock of mess. Jesus Christ is my intercessor..not some rag someone sends in the mail.I pray no one really believes that.
---shira4368 on 5/21/12


MarkV, either all of a Scripture is still true or none of it is. If we still have evangelists, pastors and teachers, we most assuredly still have apostles and prophets. God did not cut off two fingers of His hand. There are five offices of the five-fold ministry and five is the number of grace. To cut off any of those five is to shorten His hand to the detriment of the growth of the body. Every part of God (hands, eyes, feet, mouth, etc) is to have a manifested expression in the earth.

Apostle ~ governs (thumb)
Prophet ~ guides ("fore"finger)
Evangelist ~ gathers (middle, longest to reach out)
Pastor ~ guards (marriage finger)
Teacher ~ grounds (pinky finger to get in hard to reach places like ears)
---blogger8980 on 5/21/12


ginger, Paul never taught prayer clothes. "Unusual miracles" is mentioned in the Word of God. These conformed that Paul was God's messenger since there was no complete N.T. to use to determine the truth of his message ( 2 Cor. 12:12: Heb. 2:3,4). The miracles Paul did, are authenticated by the Word of God. And what happened to the Jews who tried to exorcise the evil spirits by Jesus whom Paul taught? The spirit said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know, but who are you?" The Jews were overpowered. Paul was a messenger of God the Bible tells us, but how can you tell who is a messenger of God since there is no one to tell you so? Just look around you at the false teachers in churches today, that will give you a clue.
---Mark_V. on 5/21/12


\\Paul says plainly in scripture he used them to give to those who were not able to get to him for prayer and healing.\\

Please give book, chapter, and verse, ginger where St. Paul says he did so, ginger.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/21/12


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MarkV...Anyone ever teach you about the unforgivable sin?
---KarenD on 5/21/12


.. Heavenly Father,Please be with my good friend Mary,our sister 'n the Lord. I am glad be alive to get a chance pray for anyone,anytime,anywhere..please DO NOT GIVE UP! We all love you & you know you are a precious jewel 'n the eyes of the Lord.. Often,had to sit & regroup "ELENA, you stand on faith & God has brought me this far...he will NOT leave you desolate!"... Now,I am talking to you,NO MATTER HOW it LOOK... How BAD YOU MAY BE THINKIN' it IS? it NOT OVER...Keep your FAITH! Don't let NOTHING...you NOT defeated! You know it IS NOT OVER... God is in CONTROL!!! I love you sister 'n the Lord,seem like I know you always/offer text you my songs...cheer you up! Free!Read heb.11 (FAITH)Rom.8:35-40.
---ELENA on 5/21/12


MarkV,
We have to compare the words of men to the word of God to see if they are speaking false or truth.
If what that man says does not line up with the word of God, they are false.
If it does line up, they are truth.
God does still give us apostles, preachers, teacher, evangelists, prophets.
This has not stopped. Our very lives that we live before God are testimonies that we belong to Christ.

And prayer cloths are acceptable and spoken of in scripture. Paul says plainly in scripture he used them to give to those who were not able to get to him for prayer and healing.
---ginger on 5/20/12


Blogger89, some of the gifts of the Spirit are at work today, yet some are not at work today. We have the New Testament now. We do not need tongues, prophets. Tongues were given so that others with different languages could understand the gospel Truth of the New Testament since it was not written yet. Prophets were guided by God to bring revelation that had not appeared yet in Scripture, but was completed at the close of Scripture. No one now can proof what they say comes from God unless God already told us. If He hasn't there is no way anyone can say it came from God. Man are sinners and invent many things in their minds that they cannot authenticate. When we preach the gospel, it is the Word of God because it is written already in God' Word.
---Mark_V. on 5/21/12


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If the Word is closed on "and He gave some apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers" then we must conclude two things:

1. You cannot prove you are elect using the Scriptures from the same book. You quote "chosen from the foundation of the world" to prove election but say the Scriptures pertaining to the five fold ministry in the SAME BOOK is not valid because the Bible is "closed".

2. If there are no apostles and prophets, then there are no evangelists, pastors and TEACHERS. That puts you out of the job you do here.
---blogger8980 on 5/20/12


ginger, I don't question what the Bible says, I believe in the Word of God and what it says happened during the Church Age, for there was no New Testament. What I question is what people say after the Bible closed. Even during the time of Jesus, there were many false prophets, healers, not moved by the Holy Spirit. We know they existed because the word of God tells us. It also tells us that the elect are not deceived by them. After the Bible closed, there has been thousands of false prophets, teachers not moved by the Spirit. Since there is no way they can proof what they do comes from God, how can anyone believe them? You cannot compare the Word of God with the word of men. There is no way. If you put your faith on men you are in big trouble.
---Mark_V. on 5/20/12


Cluny, I believe God still makes some apostles as Paul tells us.And some teachers, pastors, etc.
I believe everything written in the Bible, not just some of it.
Paul says he used cloths to send for healing and other miracles. I believe him. Christ said we all would receive power to do these things. This power happened in the upper room. It is listed in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I believe it all.
If you don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirt or God giving some as as apostles and teachers and pastors etc., then I can't make you. But I myself am a bible believing daughter of God 100%.
---ginger on 5/19/12


\\So you don't believe in the positions given by God for some to be called apostles, teachers, preachers, etc?
or the charge given to the 12 original disciples to go and make more disciples?\\

Disciples are one thing. Apostles are another.

You don't think they are the same, do you?

Christ is risen !
---Cluny on 5/19/12


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Cluny,
So you don't believe in the positions given by God for some to be called apostles, teachers, preachers, etc?
or the charge given to the 12 original disciples to go and make more disciples?

Karen, I understand what you are saying but my church does not charge money. We do as what Darlene posted. It is an extension of our prayers to God for that individual.

Markv, look at the scripture Darlene posted. I didn't add anything to the word, it is in there.
---ginger on 5/19/12


\\And as for the upper room address, well, what do we do about Paul then? He wasn't there and he certainly had the same power.\\

Paul is an apostle. We are not.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/12


ginger, the Bible is the Words of God. It contains what God wanted us to learn about Him. What's written has its own meaning on what God wanted to convey to each passage. The Bible closed. When we read it, we first should find the meaning God had for each passage. Second, we as believers should ask ourselves, how that meaning applies to us as we walk with the Lord. The action each one takes is not always the same. But the meaning in the passage never changes. Everything that happened that's written, does not always apply to us. What God said is authenticate by His Word and written for us. What we do today can never be authenticate it comes from God. We can never proof it does. Our word is not proof it comes from God because it's our word.
---Mark_V. on 5/19/12


As Cluny pointed out it is prayer "cloths", not "clothes" as I originally posted. As Darlene stated this practice was started in Acts 19. It is something that I saw as a young child in pentecostal churches where they sent home a hanky which had been anointed with anointing oil to someone who was bedridden. For those of you who don't know what a hanky is, ask your grandmother. Those televangelists sending out so-called prayer cloths and asking for donations will have to answer to the Lord on judgment day. They will have to answer for the other false nonsense they are spewing out of their mouths. Those listening with "itching ears" will be held accountable also.
---KarenD on 5/19/12


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Mark V I want to share this information,it isn't the modern "Word of Faith" preachers who started prayer cloths. As the Bible verse in Acts 19 says it was started by Paul. Where I first knew of it was as a child from Grandma listening to the Radio preachers. Prayer Cloths were never given for an offering,nor did they ever ask for them to be paid for so one could receive a healing. They were simply an extension of their ministry giving the Word and love,trying to win souls and pray for healings. When I used one was 1956 and things were a lot different then,there weren't as many preachers trying to take advantage of people in need of God's touch. Acts 19:11,12 Its found here. God would have stopped Paul participating if it was wrong.
---Darlene_1 on 5/19/12


Cluny
as for the chair. I said "They deserve the chair".
So do I according to God. So do you and all those who have sinned.
I did not say that I want them to die. I would prefer they come to Christ and repent and be saved.
God says that we are to live by the laws of the land we live in, too.

And as for the upper room address, well, what do we do about Paul then? He wasn't there and he certainly had the same power.
Christ sent them out 2 by 2 to make more disciples.
Gifts of the Holy Spirit? healing, Intercerory prayer
Christ has given the same power to all his disciples.. you, me and every one else in Christ.
Why are Gifts of the Holy Spirit explained and given to us, if not?
---ginger on 5/19/12


In the early church, people used paper to minister to one another.

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

But people who are limited will try to limit this to what they dictate.
---willie_c: on 5/19/12


ginger, thank you for answering concerning child murderers and molesters. I mentioned before, that for about 16 years now, I have been praying for about four children who have been taken from the Bay Area in California. Nicky, Amber, Michelle, and now another girl from Gilroy. I know when I pray that chances are they are dead already, but I pray that God somehow makes it possible for them to die, so that they never again murder another child. Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry something happen to you too. peace
---Mark_V. on 5/19/12


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\\Do I think they deserve the chair? YES.\\

Three things, ginger:

1. What did Jesus say about "eye for eye and tooth for tooth?"

2. What did Jesus say about the qualifications for executioners in John 8?

3. If you read John 14, you will see that this is the Upper Room address, and He was talking to the Apostles only. Even Judas had left at that point.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/18/12


MarkV,
In the other blog I actually did not say YOU were a pharisee. I only gave the definition of what one was.
I understand you are a father. Im a mother and I was molested myself. Do I think they should go to jail? YES. Do I think they deserve the chair? YES. Do I pray God changes them? YES.
Do I think if they truly repent, I will see them in heaven? YES.
You should pray they are caught AND that God saves them too.

As for prayer clothes, you can all believe what you want. I know what the word says. God says he thats in me is GREATER than he thats in the world. Paul used them also. See previous post for scripture. Im done trying to explain them to those who think its okay to use a rosary and not a piece of cloth.
---ginger on 5/18/12


\\Cluny so when Christ said we would be able to do what he did, you think he was only talking to the disciples?\\


No, I don't think so. I KNOW He was talking only to His immediate disciples.

You don't actually think He was talking to YOU, do you?

Christ is risen !
---Cluny on 5/18/12


Shira I hate those letters too,I throw away those kind of cloths,and the prayer "Spring Water",too. I agree God blesses through Jesus however here's something to think about. The Prayer Cloth isn't wrong,it's how the greedy preachers have chosen to use them. Paul would never allowed the Christians to get cloths from him to use for healing and casting out demons if God objected. Evidently God allowed that to be done.The cloth has no power it is the prayers prayed by the saints out of love,it's their faith plus our agreement faith,which brings power. I see little difference praying longdistance for others and using cloths. Intercesory prayer is used in both cases. Groups of intercesors pray over and send cloths to USA troops.
---Darlene_1 on 5/18/12


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\\I don't know why some people are facinated with prayer clothes.\\

**discussing the use of prayer clothes.**

++and never, ever heard anyone mention prayer clothes.++

People, the plural of "cloth" is "cloths."

Check the dictionary, please.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/18/12


I don't know why some people are facinated with prayer clothes. I got one in the mail and they wanted it back with a donation so I could get a blessing. I burned the whole thing. Thru God, Jesus Christ is all the blessings I need. He has blessed me everyday.
---shira4368 on 5/18/12


\\Cluny so when Christ said we would be able to do what he did, you think he was only talking to the disciples?\\

Where did Christ say to make prayer cloths?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/18/12


karen D, I belonged to a Pentacostal Church for many years and never, ever heard anyone mention prayer clothes. Never. I did not know that other Pentacostals believed that. I guess nothing surprises me, no matter the denomination.
Word of faith teachers have introduced so many non biblical views. The force of faith, God who stands at 6'2" who weights somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds. That Jesus died two deaths. That He accepted the sin of Satan in His own spirit. Just a lot of things not biblical at all. Where they come out with all that stuff is a mystery.
---Mark_V. on 5/18/12


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Cluny so when Christ said we would be able to do what he did, you think he was only talking to the disciples?
That is not what Christ said at all.
Prayer changes the one who is praying and the one who you are praying for.
It is when we seek god TRULY not just through prayer but all things, that God moves and does miracles.
---ginger on 5/18/12


Karen D, nothing like that is biblical. I don't understand how anyone can even believe such a thing. Can a priest pray over water and make it holy? No. Can a person make a piece of cloth holy, no. Was the fruit that Adam ate cause them to sin? No. Disobedience cause them to sin. The fruit was good to eat. What is written in Scripture concerning objects was not the objects themselves, it was the power of God. What happens is that the objects become idols. If someone prays to an idol made of wood or stone, that object cannot cure no one. It's the power of God which cures. If someone prays to a chair, Will that chair cure anyone? No. God cures people. Chairs, cloth's, water, or any object does not cure anyone. God does, if He so chooses to do so.
---Mark_V. on 5/18/12


\\Do you not believe you have the power of Christ in you? That prayer can change things?\\

The thing that prayer changes is the one who is praying.

The purpose of prayer is to get in tune with God's will and move with Him, not to try to get Him do do what you want to do.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/17/12


Cluny,
None who have Christ in them is ordinary. God said where 2 or 3 are gathered in HIS name he is in the midst of them.
Paul and Peter when they adressed the church, they called all of them saints, not just themselves.
A prayer cloth has the prayers of every person who prayed and who has Christ in them attached to it.
Do you not believe you have the power of Christ in you? That prayer can change things?
---ginger on 5/17/12


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Prayer cloths are nothing more than homemade Protestant relics, an abuse from the Middle Ages, with this difference: The homemade relics of the middle ages were supposed to be from saints. Prayer cloths are from ordinary people.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/17/12


Aparently more than the protestants used them. Acts 19:11-12,Paul did.
At least they are mentioned in scripture. I see nothing about rosary, but you don't see me insulting you or anyone else over it.
---ginger on 5/17/12


KarenD for scriptures showing all Gods commited Christians are saints try Romans 8:27 but there are many verses in the Bible which shows that is how God views his people. Any person called to intercessory prayer is no ordinary person. Neither are all the rest of God's people for they are the Temples of the Holy Ghost,Jesus/God fills their hearts which makes them very extra ordinary. Relics are something that are many times worshipped in the RCC and possibly some other churches,prayer cloths are merely tools,not venerated like relics,but used to help God's children.
---Darlene_1 on 5/17/12


Cluny...Where is that scripture that only certain Christians are "saints" and that we are not all Saints!
---KarenD on 5/17/12


Prayer cloths are nothing more than homemade Protestant relics, an abuse from the Middle Ages, with this difference: The homemade relics of the middle ages were supposed to be from saints. Prayer cloths are from ordinary people.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/17/12


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Yes I do think the practice of prayer clothes is based on scripture. Acts 19:11,12, 11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick hankerchiefs or aprons and the diseases departed from them and evil spirits went out of them. I know from experience some do work,the ones who are prayed over for healing or what ever they are for. With my first child I had a very hard delivery which left me with many surgical stitches and I was in severe pain,my Grandma was taking care of me and she gave me a prayer cloth to wear and the pain eased up where I could rest. We have long distance people praying for us why not have a point of contact to them by clothes,actually in agreement for healing.
---Darlene_1 on 5/16/12


I believe they are just like the rosary in a sense or the clay Christ used to heal a man of blindness. Yes, he had to wash off the clay. Just like one uses the prayer cloth or rosary to focus one's faith.
What ever makes your faith stronger and brings you closer to God.
Cluny asked me in another blog if I thought those who use a rosary were weak in their faith. No I do not. I believe that cloths, and rosary help to focus your faith and make it stronger but that does not mean you are weak in faith.
Some people do not need them, some do.
The Bible speaks about people being stronger or weaker in faith than others. But It was not meant as Cluny thought I meant it. And I apologize for making him think that with what I posted.
---ginger on 5/16/12


Whatever gets your mind at peace to listen to God do it. Some people dressing up for church is worship. The best scriptural view of this is the high priest clothes of taking off the unclean and putting on the clean, this is a physical action for a spiritual need. It can become non-scriptural like anything else when it becomes more important than God.
---Scott1 on 5/16/12


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