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Ten Commandments Or Jesus

Why is it there are some people who constantly talk about keeping the Sabbath, and keeping the 10 commandments. Yet, you will seldom if ever hear these very people talking about CHRIST. I would love to hear your thoughts.

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 ---Rob on 5/20/12
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--Haz27 on 6/7/12
NO INTELLENGENCE AT ALL, NO UNDERSTANDING WHATSOEVER

1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

1Romans 6:15 What then? shall we transgress the law. because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of the transgression of the law unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, ... But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found the transgressors of the law is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
---francis on 6/7/12


Warwick. Generally, many here on CN offer scriptures (based on their understanding of them) to support doctrine. Disagreements often occur but the usual form is to rely on scripture to back up your beliefs.
But you use little or no scripture and instead rely on false allegations on your opponents character.
Please change this style of yours. If you don't like your doctrine being questioned it's better not to answer than to respond with false allegations.

I see contradiction in your doctrine. You claim salvation ONLY by grace BUT with works of the law as proof of it. Your habitual disobedience of the CORRECT Sabbath is proof of not saved, according to your doctrine.
---Haz27 on 6/7/12


Warwick, I also disagree with your statement

"The choice is yours, either you do not understand what "we are saved by faith (not Law).." means, or have not actually read what I wrote or you have willingly misrepresented what I have said."

Faith does not save, Grace does"

Salvation is of Grace as the Scriptures teach, it cannot be of works, whether actual or foreseen. There is no merit in believing, for faith itself is a gift of God. God gives His children an inward working of the Spirit in order that they may believe, and faith is only the act of receiving the proffered gift. It is, then, only the instumental cause, and not the meritourious cause of salvation.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/12


Haz, I do not remember any quotes you supplied, regarding Francis, let alone anything I needed to apologize for.

If you make allegations back them up.

I trust you now understand I am convinced, by Scripture, we cannot be saved by obedience to Law, only by faith in Jesus Christ. And as James says we should demonstrate we are saved by our post-salvation good-works. What better work is there than to follow God's will? But can we perfectly follow Gods will? No. 1 John 2:1 says "....But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

What of those who claim to be saved but continue to willingly, as a practise, live contrary to God's will. I ask you where do they stand before God?
---Warwick on 6/7/12


Francis on 6/7 > "oops I just posted TEN. I di dnot even post on drunkeness, effeminate, revilers, or extortioners,"

I thought you said your church observes 10/10 commandments? So if you include drunkeness, effeminate, etc... that would now be 14/10 commandments? (LOL)

My point, if you say you follow the 10Cs then obey 10Cs only, since as you said "he added no more." If you say you obey Christ then obey Christ and not the 10Cs for Christ commanded more than 10. And these are not the 10Cs.. but the law of Christ... the gospel -- "the power of God unto salvation"(Rom1:16)
---jonweckl on 6/7/12




Warwick: You tried the constant request for examples months ago regarding quotes from Francis. I did the time consuming work, found them and you never apologized. I'm not trawling through your posts now. Your tactic is wasting my limited time and is a deceitful attempt to divert attention away from questioning your doctrine.

Again I suggest rational debate based on scripture instead of false allegations.

BTW you see obedience to law as proof of respect for the will of God. Hence your doctrine suggests you are lost because you habitually choose the wrong day to observe Sabbath. You are habitually disobedient to the law and you always QUESTION THE SALVATION OF PEOPLE WHO ARE HABITUALLY DISOBEDIENT.


---Haz27 on 6/7/12


Francis: I never see you refer to the commandments to Christians in 1John3:23
1:BELIEVE on Jesus.
2:Love one another.
Why is that? Disobedience?

Note also Heb 4:9 "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."

This rest is for those who "BELIEVE". Those who obey the commandment given in 1John3:23

But you follow the same path as physical Israel establishing righteousness by works of law and thus not submitting to the righteousness of God.
Rom 11:6 says you CANNOT mix works and Grace. Yet you do.
This makes you in UNBELIEF.
---Haz27 on 6/7/12


BTW there's 2 commandments for Christians...NOT 10.
---Haz27 on 6/7/12

NO INTELLENGENCE AT ALL it is as though you were repeating what a less inteligent person told you:

1 Cor 8:6 there is but one God,
1 Cor10:14 flee from idolatry.
1 Timothy 6:1 the name of God.. be not blasphemed.
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet

oops I just posted TEN
I di dnot even post on drunkeness, effeminate, revilers, or extortioners,
---francis on 6/7/12


Just a thought, if a person follows the speed limit and still gets in a wreck, is the law defective? will the speed limit save?
---Rod4Him on 6/7/12


Jerry,

"He is defining it for those who decided to write their own opinion into the law" -- So from the time the law was given on the mount, God, not even through Moses was able to "define" the law so that they all believed that "any work" means any work and not "servile work only"?

"the man-made, counterfeit Sunday" -- "And upon THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them.." (Acts.20:7) -- man-made?

"Jesus was really stupid to write a defective law," -- "For finding FAULT with them...: -- So was the 1st covenant faulty/defective?
---jonweckl on 6/7/12




Francis: Have you been to foot-washing to cover for your disobedience in cursing others by calling them dogs, stupid, etc?

Matt 5:22"whoever says, You fool! shall be in danger of hell fire."
James 3:9,10. "With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so."

BTW there's 2 commandments for Christians...NOT 10.
1John3:23
1:BELIEVE on Jesus.
2:Love one another.
It seems Francis disobeys these two. Why?
---Haz27 on 6/7/12


Jerry > "and say "think not that I came to destroy the Law"..."

You have been misled by your leaders to think that "the law" here means the 10Cs.

Here's the verse: "Think not that I am come to destroy THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil" (Mat.5:17)

"...all things must be fulfilled...written IN THE LAW of Moses, and IN THE PROPHETS, and in the psalms, CONCERNING ME." (Luk.24:44) -- the "things" that "must be fulfilled, written in THE LAW and in THE PROPHETS are things "concerning him."
---jonweckl on 6/7/12


Haz, again I point out you misrepresent me. I wrote "we are saved by faith (not Law) our desire, and attempts to live as God Commands, are not unto salvation at all but in respect for the will of God."

You made the following comment "I think your (sic) saying even you would be unsaved because you do not observe Saturday Sabbath."

The choice is yours, either you do not understand what "we are saved by faith (not Law).." means, or have not actually read what I wrote or you have willingly misrepresented what I have said. I think it is the latter. This is why I fairly, and properly call you dishonest.

I note you can give no example of any of my "false allegations."
---Warwick on 6/7/12


It is sad an organization ...can have people so BRAINWASHED, DECEIVED,...THEY HAVE LOST ALL ABILITY TO KNOW AND ACCEPT TRUTH.
---Rob on 6/6/12

Daniel 7:23 The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth ..and he shall.. think to change times and laws:

Clearly YOU are the one deceived to think that God has changed his ten commandments, when it is the 4th beast who will try to do so.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Thus according to Jesus you will be called the lowest form of life
---francis on 6/7/12


francis//The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

Moral law is really something that is inherent in man. It is there as we were created in God's image. We do not have to LEARN it but something like the Sabbath would indeed be something that has to be learned and I would view these types of laws that can put one into bondage.
---lee1538 on 6/7/12


---Rob on 6/6/12
You, your mother, and I all know that you are not in this church because they teach the truth. The ONLY reason you are there is because you are rebelious against you mother. So you do what all rebelious teenages do: You make a choice that is directly opposed to your mother

That is why you believe that elders cannot sit on pulpits, or why you do not believe in church authority. Once you have dishonoured your parents authority, it is imposible for you to come under any other authority

In rebelion you choose a church that teaches 9/10 commandments, because your mother choose one that teaches 10/10, just so you can break her heart and try to hurt her again
---francis on 6/6/12


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Warwick. False allegations seems to be your normal argument in debates. I've noticed you have done this with quite a few others here on CN as well as me. Please try to just keep to topic. Offer scripture to support your doctrine, not false allegations.

Your statement contradicts itself. I have questioned you on this many times before and only got ambiguous answers.
Using yourself as example, your doctrine would have you unsaved because you picked the wrong day to observe Sabbath therefore habitually disobedient.



---Haz27 on 6/6/12


Francis, a normal person would have learned by now, the tactics you use to try and draw peoples attention away from the truth by your telling lies, and bearing false witness against others does not work.

Do you really take so much joy, and find so much pleasure in doing the work of Satan.

It is sad an organization such as the SDA can have people so BRAINWASHED, DECEIVED, and DELUSIONED, THEY HAVE LOST ALL ABILITY TO KNOW AND ACCEPT TRUTH.

The situation you are in reminds me so much of those who followed Jim Jones, David Keresch, and those like them. It is very scary.

I hope someday your eyes will be openned to truth, and you will stop being a servant of Satan, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, and 2 Peter Chapter Two.
---Rob on 6/6/12


leej what do you think about these statements:

The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

good works, done in obedience to God's commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith
---francis on 6/6/12


Leej has yet to show:

1: That any laws were for israel only

2: The text that states that ONLY those things from the Old Testament that are repeated in the New Testament are applicable to Christians

3: That 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: means only scripture in NT

4: Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. means rest in christ
---francis on 6/6/12


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They believe Ellen G. White was a Prophet sent by God.
Her writtings are of the same quality as God's Word, a continuing source of authority and truth,
---Rob on 6/5/12

I know trhat you have issues with women of authority

But pay attention to the number of female prohettess is the bible.

Is it possible that this hatred of women in authority is a result of your rebeloin against your own mother?

I am now curious about your relationship with your wife. Do you respect her at all?
---francis on 6/6/12


Francis has this silly idea that all the laws found in the Old Covenant are applicable to the Christian but there are not.

Some were commanded ONLY to the people of Israel, others to individuals, and what is in the New Testament to His church.

Francis has yet to find even a single hint of a command in the New Testament, that one needs to observe the Sabbath or the dietary laws.

Perhaps the Holy Spirit forgot to command these things to His church and had to send olde Ellen White into the world to give us the right instructions.
---lee1538 on 6/6/12


One reason they are people insist on being under the LAW and reject GRACE, is because those who are UNDER GRACE, are held to a much higher standard than those who are UNDER THE LAW.
---Rob on 6/6/12


nothing new, many people think that they are free to commit sin
---francis on 6/5/12

francis.....if you believe that the people here who claim to have freedom in Christ claim to be free to go out and commit sin...well then, you just do not understand what grace is all about.
---JIM on 6/6/12


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Haz, you wrote "I have found from our debates your answers to be consistently contradictory and ambiguous.' Give me one example.

Your usual tactic is missrepresentation and now you do it again. I do correct you because you are being deceitful. I wrote "we are saved by faith (not Law) our desire, and attempts to live as God Commands, are not unto salvation at all but in respect for the will of God. Do you imagine the one saved from sin and hell will pay back his Saviour by living immorally? Will he lie, steal or commit adultery?

Which part of the above quote gives you basis to write "I think your (sic) saying even you would be unsaved because you do not observe Saturday Sabbath."
---Warwick on 6/6/12


jonwekl: "Logic then tells us that when Christ spoke of this in Mat.12:12, he is in fact, changing the law on sabbath."

Logic??? He is most certainly NOT! He is defining it for those who decided to write their own opinion into the law (just like the man-made, counterfeit Sunday). You must think Jesus was really stupid to write a defective law, and say "think not that I came to destroy the Law" when he came to destroy it. The 10C law will never change, the New Covenant places it on the heart rather than in stone.


---jerry6593 on 6/6/12


Jerry, just to reply to your post in "Quotes from the Old Testament" on 6/5/12

Yes, the author of the 10Cs is the God that I obey... the same God who said that He will make a new covenant with His people because the 1st covenant was faulty.

"Where in the NT do you find scriptural support for ignoring the OT and disobedience to God?" -- Did i ever, at any time, say this? What i do not follow is the 10Cs because that has been done away with.
(part1)
---jonweckl on 6/5/12


To Jerry,
(part 2)
The problem with you and Francis is you insist on keeping the 10Cs but you go to the teachings of Christ to show how it should be observed. The 10Cs when it was given in the Mount was complete, and was observed as it was stated.

What do i mean? Again, the example in Numbers15:32. If the "TRUE" sabbath law in the 10Cs was IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD on sabbaths, then why was the man commanded by God to be killed? It is because the law in the 10Cs is 'THOU SHALT NOT DO ANY WORK."

Logic then tells us that when Christ spoke of this in Mat.12:12, he is in fact, changing the law on sabbath.
---jonweckl on 6/5/12


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Francis said: "yes i do keep all ten commandments"
BUT, when questioned on this he wont answer.
Consider his record on CN. Francis said:
"your lack of intellence is scary!"
And we know of his label for many here as "dogs" etc.

So, what does scripture say?
Matt 5:22"whoever says, You fool! shall be in danger of hell fire."
James 3:9,10. "With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so."

Francis curses others calling them dogs, stupid, etc and also by preaching works of the law instead of grace.
---Haz27 on 6/5/12


"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
---Haz27 on 6/5/12

Your missinter[pretation of this text is nothing new

Jeremiah 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.

Jeremiah 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not,

Jeremiah 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

nothing new, many people think that they are free to commit sin
---francis on 6/5/12


Rob, i agree with your post on 6/5/12 specially on EGW.

And this is what the bible tells them:

"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and WOMEN RULE OVER THEM. O my people, THEY WHICH LEAD THEE cause thee TO ERR, and destroy the way of thy paths." (Isa.3:12)

Their logic is so distorted because in the organization of their church, it is also distorted:
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ, and THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN IS THE MAN, and the head of Christ is God." (1Cor.11:3)
---jonweckl on 6/6/12


Jerry. Rom 10:4 "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Even if you insist on using the word "Goal", it's means the same. Consider Gal 3:23-25
"But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our TUTOR TO BRING US TO CHRIST, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are NO LONGER under a tutor."
Also:
Rom 8:2 SET FREE from the law.
Gal 5:18 NOT under the law

Following SDA doctrine is being carnally minded and enmity against God.
---Haz27 on 6/5/12


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Jerry, the Greek word for fulfil is PIEROO. It means to COMPLETE, END, or EXPIRE.

Throughout these blogs Francis and Jerry display the exact characteristics of those in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, and 2 Peter Chapter Two.

They believe Ellen G. White was a Prophet sent by God.
Her writtings are of the same quality as God's Word, a continuing source of authority and truth, and no Christian library is complete unless it includes the writtings of Ellen G. White.

They believe a person in authority should never be questioned, and studying scripture by book, chapter, and verse is nonsense and garbage.

They are against people asking and answering the questions WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, and to WHOM scripture is written.
---Rob on 6/5/12


Warwick. I hope your not going to try the false allegations tactic again. There is no feigning misunderstanding of your doctrine. I have found from our debates your answers to be consistently contradictory and ambiguous.

But to answer your question, the criminal on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" was saved regardless of being a criminal. Many Christians are in continual adultery (Mark 10:11) and they will NOT profit by it. But, those who are genuine believers are saved.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think your saying even you would be unsaved because you do not observe Saturday Sabbath.
---Haz27 on 6/5/12


---CraigA on 6/4/12
The bible does not say that God was tired.
What it does say is this:
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Are you suggesting that by obeying God we turn a blessing into a curse?

My ANSWER: The law of Christ, which is the gospel of Christ.
---jonweckl on 6/4/1
No the answer is THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. That is the law in which we find thou shall not commit adultery.

the gospel is the new that Jesus came to die because of ourt sins including commiting adultery and not keeping the sabbath
---francis on 6/5/12


Haz we have been through this before in lengthy detail and you feigned missunderstanding then also.

One simple question will solve it: Consider a person who claims to be Christian but who has a life of persistent and purposeful breaking of the 10 Commandments-they steal, curse their parents, committ adultery etc. Would you consider them to be saved?
---Warwick on 6/5/12


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Haz: While I realize that your ignorance of Scripture is likely incurable, nevertheless, I'll try one more time.

"You never cooked, drove car, lit any fire on Sabbaths?" While I'm sure you think such questions are cute, such prohibitions are not in the Ten Commandments.

"Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth". I've previously explained to you that the Greek for END used here means GOAL. Otherwise Christ is contradicted when He says "Think not that I am come to destroy the law". It is your carnal mind that is enmity against God's Law (Rom 8:7)


---jerry6593 on 6/5/12


Francis, do you really think God needed to rest after 6 days of creating? Or is it more likely He was setting an example for us. Blessing us with the permission to do NOTHING on one day of the week because He himself did the same.

You turn a blessing into a burden. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
---CraigA on 6/4/12


Francis, can you please answer these question.
1: Do you mean since you became an SDA you were NEVER involved in the foot washing for slip ups on the 10c?
You never cooked, drove car, lit any fire on Sabbaths?

2: This question is similar to the first and what your hoping to be asked. What happened to you WHEN YOU BROKE a commandment as an SDA?

3: My source for less than 10commandments is 1John3:23 "this is His commandment: that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and LOVE one another".
Do you have problems with this, Jesus commandments to us?
---Haz27 on 6/4/12


Francis 5/31/12> "Not what verse, not what chapter, not what book, WHAT LAW"

My ANSWER: The law of Christ, which is the gospel of Christ. That which Christ commanded His apostles to teach to all nations and observed in its entirety.

Now that i answered you plainly. Answer me this: What is the law on sabbath keeping as stated in the 10Cs?

Let me guess, you won't answer directly, and just babble some excuses again.
---jonweckl on 6/4/12


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Warwick. I'm not understanding your point. Are you saying we are saved by grace but if a Christian disobeys the 10commandments (aka law of sin and death) they are unsaved?

BTW, I'm not saying Christians can get away with doing wrong. But I suspect we differ in how we see the law.

Note the commandments of Jesus to Christians.
1John3:23 "this is His commandment: that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and LOVE one another"
And love does no wrong to another, Rom 13:10.
And remember loves forgives 7x70 too.
---Haz27 on 6/5/12


Francis, you missed answering my question regarding your claim you keep all 10 commandments.
---Haz27 on 6/4/12
I did answer your question

I did not know that less than 10 was an option

I need your source for less than 10

James 2 says THE WHOLE LAW meaning all ten

So if you have a source that says less than 10 please share it with us

Otherwise you yourself need to keep all ten
---francis on 6/4/12

What I think you want to ask is what happen if or when I were to break one of them

Go ahead ask that question
---francis on 6/4/12


Haz, you have Jesus saying His death was insufficient and we must perfectly/completly obey the 10 Commandments for salvation. Notice Jesus adds-anyone who teaches others to break the Commandments will be called least in heaven. The point being those who willingly and repeatedly break the Commandments AND teach others to do likewise (as you seem to be suggesting we should do) will make it to heaven, just! He is not saying Commandment obedience brings salvation. If He said this He would be making His own substitutionary death of no avail.
---Warwick on 6/4/12


Francis, you missed answering my question regarding your claim you keep all 10 commandments.

Do you mean since you became an SDA you were never involved in the foot washing for slip ups on the 10c?
You never cooked, drove car, lit any fire on Sabbaths?

My source for less than 10commandments?
1John3:23 "this is His commandment: that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and LOVE one another"

Christians are under the much more glorious ministry of the Spirit/righteousness.

You are under the old ministry of death/condemnation. You have no right to judge anyone by that ministry. It's PASSED AWAY 2Cor 3:7-11. Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes, Rom 10:4
---Haz27 on 6/4/12


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---CraigA on 6/4/12
Where did I say that i was blameless?
What sure sign is it when you say things about people that is not true?
---francis on 6/4/12


Francis said: "yes i do keep all ten commandments"
---Haz27 on 6/3/12

I did not know that less than 10 was an option

I need your source for less than 10

James 2 says THE WHOLE LAW meaning all ten

So if you have a source that says less than 10 please share it with us

Otherwise you yourself need to keep all ten
---francis on 6/4/12


Warwick. Consider Matt 5:19 and James 2:10. To break just ONE commandment makes you guilty of all and called least in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus kept it however and he taught obedience to it. He is called great in the kingdom of heaven.

But, the whole world (including Francis) is guilty before God, Rom 3:19.
All have sinned.
Man needs Jesus Christ as savior.

Now, "Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth". Rom 10:4

But Francis still preaches the old ministration of death/condemnation which is the law of sin and death (10c).
---Haz27 on 6/4/12


Now that is a sure sign of delusion when a person thinks because they keep "10" of Gods laws that they keep them ALL and are blameless.

Francis, sell all that you have, give it to the poor and become a street minister.
---CraigA on 6/4/12


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Haz, I believe James is saying we cannot be justified by a partial, or imperfect observance of the Law. But as we are saved by faith (not Law) our desire, and attempts to live as God Commands, are not unto salvation at all but in respect for the will of God. Do you imagine the one saved from sin and hell will pay back his Saviour by living immorally? Will he lie, steal or commit adultery?

In Matthew 5:19 the Lord Jesus says these Commandments are not to be broken. How do you answer this?
---Warwick on 6/4/12


Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Logically, it follows that if you don't love Jesus, you will break His Commandments. What's even worse, some even teach others to break the Commandments, and we all know what's said about them in heaven.


---jerry6593 on 6/4/12


Francis said: "yes i do keep all ten commandments"

Does that mean since you became an SDA you were never involved in the foot washing for slip ups on the 10c?
And have you never cooked, drove car, lit any fire on Sabbaths?

And if Francis has slipped up sometime since becoming an SDA then he's guilty of ALL the law (James 2:10) and worthy of death.
---Haz27 on 6/3/12


---Rob on 6/3/12
Are the commandments which I speak of any diffeent from what the apostles spoke of:


1 Cor 8:6 there is but one God,
1 Cor10:14 flee from idolatry.
1 Timothy 6:1 the name of God.. be not blasphemed.
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet

Seems like francis, Jesus, and all the apostles are on the same page as to ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS

where are you rob?
---francis on 6/3/12


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Francis, once again you have been caught in a lie by saying you keep all 10 commandments. First of all saying you keep all 10 commandments is saying you do not sin.

Second, many times you have written that I was adopted into a SDA home, I did not grow up in a SDA home, and I don't know what SDA's teach. That is bearing False Wittness.

If that is not enough, look at the times you bore False Wittness against people by calling them FEMALE DOGS, or FEMALE DOGS IN HEAT.

To call them any type of dog or other animal, when they are people, is bearing False Witness against them.
---Rob on 6/3/12


---Rob on 6/3/12
Are the commandments which I speak of any diffeent from what Jesus spoke of:

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him..if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother:
Luke 4:8 Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Matthew 5:34 Swear not at all, neither by heaven, for it is God's throne:
Matthew 12:12 it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days

and yes i do keep all ten commandments as god commanded me to.

DO you keep all ten commandments as God commanded you to?
---francis on 6/3/12


Rob, I think you and some others are in error regarding God's 10 Commandments. We are saved by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8,9) but James adds those saved will be obvious by their post-salvation good works. Do these good works save us? No, but we the saved were "..created in Christ Jesus for good works..." Ephesians 2:10

Likewise we are not saved by obedience to God's Commandments as we would need to be perfect to be so saved. And none is perfect. However when saved can we live in contradiction to His Commandments? Can we steal, murder or dishonour our parents? Is it not a good work (after we are saved) to live as He commanded?
---Warwick on 6/3/12


Francis, you are always harping about keeping the LAW, and that others are to keep the LAW.

Francis, I have a very simple question to ask you. I want to see if you will answer this very simple question, or if as usual you will come up with some type of rederick or rant to avoid answering.

Francis, do you keep all of the 10 COMMANDMENTS?

I still suspect you will not answer, even though like the PHARISEES. you tell others they must keep the LAW, which is something you, yourself don't do, Matthew Chapter 23.
---Rob on 6/3/12


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James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill.

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother


Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet

And to break ONE is to be guilty of sin, does not matter which you break because HE WHO SAID, said them all.
---francis on 6/1/12


nothing in the bible that says "you CANNOT commit adultery"... you CAN, but you SHOULD NOT. Makes sense? (LOL)
---jonweckl on 5/31/12

Now pay close attention to this question:

What LAW in the says that you should not commit adultery?

Not what verse, not what chapter, not what book, WHAT LAW
---francis on 6/1/12


Francis on 5/31/12

"---jonweckl on 5/31/12
TRICK QUESTION:
Where in the bible does it say you cannot commit adultery?"

No, not a trick question -- it's a stupid question. There is nothing in the bible that says "you CANNOT commit adultery"... you CAN, but you SHOULD NOT. Makes sense? (LOL)

Let's make this easy. Let's go back to the 10Cs and particularly the command you seem to like so much.

Can you tell me, WHAT is the commandment on sabbath as commanded in the 10Cs?
---jonweckl on 5/31/12


---jonweckl on 5/31/12

TRICK QUESTION:
Where in the bible does it say you cannot commit adultery?
---francis on 5/31/12


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Francis on 5/30/12

If i do not commit adultery, but looks on a woman with lustful thoughts... did i break the 7th of the 10Cs? No, because what the 7th law prohibited was the COMMISSION of the act: "DO NOT COMMIT"

But, did i commit a sin? Yes, because i broke Christ's commandment: "whosoever looketh on a women to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Mat.5:28)
---jonweckl on 5/31/12


---Eloy on 5/30/12
When you honour your father and your mother, are you ministering death by keeping the 5th commandment?

When you do not covet, steal, lie or murder, when you do not make idols to worship, when you do not take God's name in vain, when you serve God and God only are you then ministering death?

How did you come to the conclusion that is it acceptable to honour your father and mother and worship only one God, but unacceptable to keep the sabbath which is in the same law, spoken by the same God, and written on the same tablets of stone?
---francis on 5/30/12


Lee etc, as I have told you I am not Adventist and don't agree with all their beliefs. However I find it somewhat ironic that you a BiblioSceptic harangue Francis because you don't approve of some of His beliefs. I don't think it would be more ironic if you were a slave of the WTS and arguing with Francis. After all your beliefs undermine the only gospel. What can be worse than that?
---Warwick on 5/30/12


They cannot talk of Christ because they have no Christ in their life to talk of. For you cannot serve two masters: the Holy Spirit, and also the letter of the law: The N.T. ministers life, and the o.t. ministers death, and they are opposites: the one embraces Christ, and the other slays Christ.
---Eloy on 5/30/12


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francis //Walk into any SDA church and all you will hear is something about the Sabbath and how those evil terrible Roman Catholics changed the most important commandment of God. They ASSUME you already believe in Christ. --lee1538
You forgot about ellen G white get your lies together
---
The formers tell me that one generally will NOT hear anything about olde Ellen White until after they have joined the SDA church. Poor souls, when they realize they have been hoodwinked it is often too late.
---lee1538 on 5/30/12


Walk into any SDA church and all you will hear is something about the Sabbath and how those evil terrible Roman Catholics changed the most important commandment of God. They ASSUME you already believe in Christ.
---lee1538 on 5/29/12
You forgot about ellen G white
get your lies together
---francis on 5/29/12


//Look how many blogs Rob writes specifially about SDA, ellen White, Sabbath and how few he actually writes about Jesus.
---
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he (Jesus) is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Jesus is the Savior, not observance of laws from an obsolete covenant. Hebrews 8:13

Walk into any SDA church and all you will hear is something about the Sabbath and how those evil terrible Roman Catholics changed the most important commandment of God. They ASSUME you already believe in Christ.
---lee1538 on 5/29/12


CHRIST gave the 10 commandments to Israel. Whoever loves the 10 commandments and does not love Christ can be likened to someone who appreciates a gift more than the giver.
---Adetunji on 5/23/12


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---jonweckl on 5/22/12
Reasonable

I do not take it personally.
But can you not see the hyproracy here?
Look how many blogs Rob writes specifially about SDA, ellen White, Sabbath and how few he actually writes about Jesus.
---francis on 5/22/12


Francis> "Why do you keep writing blogs about SDA, Sabbath..."

Being a religious blog, obviously we would talk about the words of God... the scriptures. As 2Tim.3:16 says "all scriptures... is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction..." The 10Cs and the sabbath, being part of the words of God, will be discussed -- is it still in effect, should christians still follow it, etc.

My point, as we discuss the different parts of the scriptures in order to try to understand the fullness of God's entire words, a certain belief may be raised that would contradict the belief of another, and should not be taken as a personal attack on the SDAs, or its leaders.

At least that's how i try to approach it.
---jonweckl on 5/22/12


Why is it there are some people who constantly talk about keeping the Sabbath, and keeping the 10 commandments. Yet, you will seldom if ever hear these very people talking about CHRIST. I would love to hear your thoughts.
---Rob on 5/20/12

Better question is: Why do you keep writing blogs about SDA, Sabbath, ten commandments and SDA and not about Jesus?
---francis on 5/21/12


Catholicus, I agree, some people get stuck on the Law. Like the rich young man asked Jesus, "Good Master, what 'good thing' must I do to enter into the kingdom of God?" Jesus answered, well said to keep the commandments, but one thing you lack: "Go sell what you have, give it to the poor: then come follow me, and you will have treasures in heaven." But the rich young did not do it. You see, the young man was keeping the 10 commandments, but Jesus said that that is not enough to get into heaven. So to follow Jesus we must obey Jesus' commandments above Moses' commandments. That is why he came, to show us the New Law, the New way, the best way, the only way, take up your cross and follow after Jesus right up into glory.
---Eloy on 5/21/12


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Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
---francis on 1/30/12 11
Luke 24:27 And beginning at MOSES and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things CONCERNING HIMSELF.
---francis on 6/22/11

What Jesus did on the cross enables us to keep the law( IMPARTED RIGHTEOUSNESS) because we are partakers of the divine nature / christ is in us.
What Jesus did on the corss enables us to be creditied with his perfect sinless life ( IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS)
---francis on 1/27/12

You are wrong
All you do is talk about SDA and Ellen G white

All SDA do is talk about JESUS and LOVE and righteousness by faith
---francis on 5/20/12


Rob. The reason why some obsess over works of law is seen in scripture.

Gal 3:2,3. "Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so FOOLISH? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"
---Haz27 on 5/20/12


The old Law-keepers are NonNew Law-keepers, or NonChristians. For a little leaven, leavens the whole soul.
---Eloy on 5/20/12


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