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Christian Belief Of Creation

Some Christians don't believe the Bible account of Creation, neither do they believe in the man-made theories of the Big Bang and Evolution. What do YOU believe about origins, if anything? And what is the basis of your beliefs?

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 ---jerry6593 on 5/24/12
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Warwick, and Jerry: Thanks for your comments. It is similar to what I have found in some books - that our problem (there is was not with evolution, it was a comment in general) is not with a thought out reasoned dispute (which I don't have with creation.

My problem is when I am tired, sleepy, etc..... old thoughts (which my brain knows to have problems) get back in.

I do still have some problems even with the more scientific of the theories explaining how things did occur in a short time (not that I claim they took a long time, I feel that the explanations are incomplete)
---Peter on 6/15/12


I too tried to "meld" evolutional theory and the written biblical history.
I was always reviewing and modifying my ideas, usually by ignoring certain facts the Bible presents.
After many years the historical accounts as written in the Bible could not be ignored, and thus an indepth study of evolutionary and long-age theory revealed a major amount of assumptions and ignoring of facts to present a historical model without any supernatural influence. As I continued to study further, much evidence presented itself toward the validity of scripture "as it is written" as well as more and more evidence contradicting current ideas of our origins.
Praise God that He opened my eyes to the Truth.
---micha9344 on 6/15/12


Jerry,

It really sounds weird to me when I hear someone 'fess up and say swapping from being an evolutionist to a creationist caused much struggle. I must be one of the few who did the move without any angst because I could instantly see it made more scientific and logical sense than what I had believed ever since I was bought my first books on palaeontology and archaeology at age 7.

My meta-reasoning now is that God only made 1 world, and one world's existence CANNOT be explained in two entirely different ways. One will stand out for its ineptitude and inability to explain reality because it's an imposter explanation.
---Marc on 6/15/12


Peter, you are not alone with these thoughts. Many Christians who were once convinced of evolution have said they found Christianity hard to accept because they believed that 'science' had somehow proved it wrong. Is it possible that you, as they, have been indoctrinated to think this way?

The fact that the Christian body contains many highly qualified scientists who once believed in evolution is testimony to the fact they were firstly indoctrinated into what is a belief, not a scientific fact. I always recomend anyone having your thoughts to read articles on the creation site. That is the one Atheist claimed had lots of scientific errors but when pressed could not find one.
---Warwick on 6/15/12


Peter: You are among the very few honest people on this subject. The internal conflict you are experiencing is not at all unusual. The cure is prayer. Ask God to show you the truth.

Many years ago, I agonized over the very same conflict - 6,000 years of the Bible vs. 3.5 billion years (the age of the earth at that time) taught at my University. Then (after much prayer) God sent me a new co-worker (a PhD physicist working with nuclear-pumped lasers) who explained that nuclear decay rates can be greatly accelerated in the presence of intense light. That was the beginning of my investigation of the "scientific" basis for the long-age paradigm. You see on these blogs the place at which I have arrived.


---jerry6593 on 6/15/12




I know that the correct thing is to believe in the 6-day, 24-hour, creation, but when that is in my head, I find that something is always arguing with it!

It is what I believe intellectually, but somehow emotionally I find it hard....

Sorry!
---Peter on 6/14/12


NurseRobert: "Becuase it makes sense. Why do you believe the Biblical version of creation, or for that matter, your particular brand of Christanity?"

I believe the Bible because it makes sense, because it is indeed the Word of God, because Jesus believed it, and because it better aligns with the scientific evidences on the planet than do the silly academic conjectures. Why don't you approach the academic theories with the same skepticism that you do the Bible? You'll be amazed at what you'll find.

Why do you look for discrepancies in the Bible? So that you can justify your anti-biblical position? Either the book IS God's Word or it isn't. And just who made you the final arbiter of truth?


---jerry6593 on 6/14/12


NurseRobert, God does say no man can see His face and live. But He also says men saw Him face to face and lived, as recorded in Genesis 32:30, and Exodus 24:11. Relevantly, in both instances the coment, that God did not hurt them, follows. Isaiah thought he was done having seen "the Lord Almighty." I see no proof of contradiction here. A possible answer is man was not then allowed to see God's face and live, unless God decided to reveal Himself. But Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father (John 14:8,9) and Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. God has revealed His very likeness, physically and spiritually in Jesus and no one perished!

It appears you look for errors while others look for understanding.
---Warwick on 6/13/12


Warwick, you are right again, you know it is hypocrisy, I know it is hypocrisy, but he doesn't believe it is. What do you expect? For him to admit he is a hypocrite? It is almost as if you want him to admit something he does not see. Is it not enough to tell him or others the Truth? I keep bringing the truth over and over, but I don't expect them to answer and say, 'Mark you are so right" in fact I expect for them to say, "you are so wrong" your preaching a false doctrine. As far as God is concern I have done my duty. God knows what to do with His Truth. Maybe a whole bunch of others who don't answer will see for themselves the Truth and they will check it for themselves. That is all I meant.
---Mark_V. on 6/13/12


Mark, NurseRobert more fully explained his antiBiblical views here as he was asked questions. You obviously had a better understanding of his beliefs than I did.

It is always my desire to support those who stand up for the word of God. And to challenge those who cherry-pick what they will believe. How can NurseRobert really believe in the Biblical Jesus if he does not believe in the Biblical Adam whom Jesus considered an historical person? That is hypocrisy.
---Warwick on 6/13/12




NurseRobert, show me where I said I had set a trap for anyone.

When I use the word liberal I am obviously using it in a Biblical sense of one who does not hold to the Scriptures as revealed Truth. I do not use it politically. I thought that would be obvious.

I have not ducked anything as my witness to reality about origins is the perfect eye-witness, God Himself. Do you imagine there was someone else standing by watching creation occur?

Further I believe Jesus rose from the dead but cannot prove it. My stand is faith in God and all He has revealed to us.

If you cannot trust Genesis because you believe it was only written by man then to be consistent you must likewise reject the truth of the NT.
---Warwick on 6/13/12


Mark,Warwick needs to feel good about himself, so he demeans anyone who doesn't think like him. I feel sorry for him.

As for being a liberal: you once said: "lets get it right, liberals as we know them in this country are for the rights of the people with complete disregard to the will of God. ---Mark_V. on 3/8/12

Of course, I disagree with that. We have an obligation to help our fellow man, to show dignity for everyone, to care about the welfare of people as told in scripture....

Psalm 12:5, Psalm 14:6, Proverbs 14:31, Proverbs 19:17, Proverbs 28:27, Jeremiah 5:28, Ezekiel 18:7, Matthew 25:35, Galatians 2:10, and a couple of personal favorite, 1 John 3:17-18 and Proverbs 31:9 as well as multiple others..
---NurseRobert on 6/13/12


Warwick, you are right, we are to challenge others whom we believe are teaching wrong in order to get to the Truth. But I did not see Nurseroberts hiding anything. He actually spoke bluntly. And actually said some things I never heard from him before. I already knew he was a liberal, since he has answered many answers to Elder and others before. But here he answered the questions you put to him. He says he believes in Jesus and not the historical Adam. I think he was clear on that also. It there something else you are looking for that I did not see?
---Mark_V. on 6/13/12


Warwick, spin it anyway you want, fact is you said one thing then denies you said it.

Your non-answer was expected. The only answer: you have NO proof other than scripture. God does not lie but the Bible was written by man and errors exist. Jacob said he saw God and lived. (Gen 32). God said no one can see his face and live (Ex 33) Mark says Jesus was cruicified at the 3rd hour, John says the 6th, 2 Kings says Ahaziah was 22 when he became king, 2 Chron says 42. If these are not factual errors then what? Translation problems? Either way, they are errors.

I have no agenda, other than to learn. You choose to belittle and dismiss others to pump up your own pride. Christians like you give all Christians a bad name.
---NurseRobert on 6/13/12


NurseRobert, I said "The questions I asked are not a trap to those who believe." The trap is not mine but exists for those who evade the truth, a trap of their own construction. Others were endeavouring to discover what you believe and you were somewhat evasive. My questions flushed you out.

Clear? I set no trap but you admitted there was a trap for you.

I have told you I accept the Truth of God's word. It needs no falible sinful man to verify it for me, as God does not lie. But you believe He does, so why believe what He wrote about Jesus? Those of the world who tell you Genesis is not Truth will also say dead people do not rise again. If you believe them about one why do you not believe them about the other?
---Warwick on 6/12/12


Mark, regarding NurseRobert, this is a public forum where all can and are challenged to state, and defend their beliefs. I did not remember what he believes and noticed others were in the same position, asking him questions. As I see it he was evasive, and I discerned a hidden agenda. Therefore I challenged him and his 'liberal' views have been exposed. He believes Jesus is an historical reality but Adam is not. How can any Christian not believe what Jesus said about the historicity of Adam? Who gives us the right to pick and choose what parts of the Word of God we are prepared to believe. Is our salvation based upon human reasoning or upon the word of God. The latter of course as man knows nothing in comparison to God.
---Warwick on 6/12/12


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Warwick said:

"questions I asked are not a trap to those who believe. Only to those who will not believe."

"I have not constructed traps"

So from one side of your mouth you admit you were setting traps (and poorly at that) and from the other you deny you did it. What does that make you?

And how is what I post a trap when I tell you it is? Are you that afraid to answer the question?

Once again, you dance from the questions ask. I will ask it again:

"what NON scriptural proof do you have that Adam existed?"

"is the Bible completely accurate, with NO error in fact?"
---NurseRobert on 6/12/12


NurseRobert, I have not constructed traps,as already explained. However the truth is a trap for those who try to evade it.

You have adequately answered my questions admitting you have no Scriptural reason to reject the historicity of Adam, but do so anyway. You therefore reinterpret Scripture through nonBiblical beliefs and by the same rule have no reason to believe in salvation through Jesus Christ.

You rightly say I have no right to trap anyone then endeavour to trap me! I believe the Bible is revealed Truth from God. The more I read it from cover to cover the more I am amazed how it fits so perfectly together. For example Jesus quoted from Genesis 1:27 and 2:24, as historical reality, to give His foundation for marriage.
---Warwick on 6/12/12


Warwick... who are you to try and "trap" anyone?

You remind me a pastor who once told me that I shouldn't be reading ANYTHING other than the Bible. If I know anything, its God gave us brains to think and reason. Tell me, is the Bible completely accurate, with NO error in fact? Do all parts of the Bible agree with other parts? Come on now, this is a trap, are you going to fall into it?

I have no "scriptural reference" regarding a historical Adam and you know that. Tell me, what NON scriptural proof do you have that Adam existed?
---NurseRobert on 6/12/12


NurseRobert, your angry answer speaks volumes.

The questions I asked are not a trap to those who believe. Only to those who will not believe.

You say you believe in Jesus as an historical person, and the salvation we may receive by him. But you do not believe in Adam as a likewise historical person. On what Scriptural basis to you reject the historicity of Adam?
---Warwick on 6/12/12


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Warwick, I believe that Nurseroberts has answered almost all of your questions about what he believes. In fact he was honest enough to answer knowing full well what others would say. I already knew what he believed from reading many of the answers on other blogs and it was good enough for me on what he believed, why is that not good enough for you and Jerry? What do you want him to say now? To say he is not Christian? to say he is not saved? What is it that you want him to say? Or what is it that you want to say but don't? Don't drag it out by accusing him of not answering right away.
---Mark_V. on 6/12/12


Why do we believe anything, Jerry?

Becuase it makes sense. Why do you believe the Biblical version of creation, or for that matter, your particular brand of Christanity? Becuase some prophet who died 100 years ago said you should?
---NurseRobert on 6/12/12


Warwick, I have just finished my 5th 18 hour day, with another one for tomorrow. Unlike you, I have a life outside of CN and I answer questions in my own time, not yours.

I believe in Jesus, that he was a physical being who died on the cross for the sins of mankind. You will say, becuase I do NOT beleive in the literal intrepretation of the Bible, that every single thing there is right and there is no error, that I am no a Christian. Your opinion really matters little. You claim to be a Christian, but play games - setting "traps" that anyone could see a mile away. Its people like you that drive people away from any belief in Christ.
---NurseRobert on 6/11/12


I believe NurseRobert has had more than adequate time to answer my relevant questions. As he has not done so is good evidence he was aware of the trap (for him) in these questions. They only contain a trap for those who play fast and loose with the truth. Anyone who holds to the truth of all of Scripture would happily answer truthfully as there is no trap for them, because they hold to the truth.
---Warwick on 6/11/12


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NurseRobert, could you please give me an answer? The questions I asked were

"Do you consider yourself a Christian? Do you believe you are forgiven by accepting Jesus physically and historically died and rose again that you may be saved?'
---Warwick on 6/9/12


NurseRobert: "I beleive that the univerise (sic) is billions of years old. I believe that human life, as we know it, is about 50000 years old. Can I prove this? No"

Yet you believe it. Why? Because some liberal college professor that doesn't love you says so? Yet when Jesus confirms the existence of Adam and Eve, fiat creation, the flood of Noah, etc. you do not believe Him. Doesn't that strike you as strange?


---jerry6593 on 6/9/12


Moses existed?
Maybe not if he said something like this:
Deu 31:30a And Moses spake...
Deu 32:8a When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam...
Paul real?
Rom 5:14a Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses...
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Jesus?
Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
Maybe they are just disillusioned so that NurseRobert can have his opinion.
Ezra?
Maybe NurseRobert can read 1 Chronicles 1-9 and tell me which are real and which are not...
Job?
Job 31:33a If I covered my transgressions as Adam...
---micha9344 on 6/5/12


NurseRobert: The two following quotes of yours appear to be in conflict:

"The big bangers base their beliefs on conjecture and observation"

"I do not believe the Big Bang or Darwins theory are false."

You seem to adhere to wild theories based on nothing but conjecture, while disbelieving the written history which was ratified by the God you claim to serve. Can you explain this?


---jerry6593 on 6/5/12


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NurseRobert,

Luke included Adam in Jesus' genealogy, just like all the other [historical] men. Did Luke ultimately trace Jesus' bloodline and base this list of real men - as you concede - on a fable and a non-existent man?
---Marc on 6/4/12


NurseRobert, thank you for your reply. I cannot imagine how anyone decides for himself that part of the Bible is historical reality, and part is fable. What makes you believe Adam and Eve were not historical people?

Do you consider yourself a Christian? Do you believe you are forgiven by accepting Jesus physically and historically died and rose again that you may be saved?

I am just trying to come to an understanding of what and why you believe.
---Warwick on 6/4/12


Warwick, I believe there are historical truths in the Bible.

I believe Moses existed,
I believe a good bit of the old testament (I believe there is enough historical proof regarding the OT rulers and battles). I believe that Jesus existed as well as Paul, Peter and the deciples. There is enough historical proof to back them up.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/12


NurseRobert, do you believe any of the Bible is historical truth? And if so why?

As the Bible says the whole of Scripture is God's word, not the ideas of any man.
---Warwick on 6/4/12


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Warwick, I do not believe that Adam and Eve were actual persons, but instead were legend written down to explain the creation of the world.

Tell me, who wrote the book of Genesis?

Marc, not me, but I have always wanted to visit Hawaii.
---NurseRobert on 6/3/12


NurseRobert,

I once lived in the US, knew a guy called Robert, who eventually became a nurse and now lives in Hawaii. I thought, what a truly small weird world if...
---Marc on 6/3/12


NurseRobert, in your belief where do you place the fossil record: before or after Adam?
---Warwick on 6/3/12


Jerry.. You're question was: Do you believe that the Big Bang Theory and Darwin's Evolution are false theories?

My response was no, I do not believe the Big Bang or Darwins theory are false. I beleive that the univerise is billions of years old.

I believe that human life, as we know it, is about 50000 years old.

Can I prove this? No

Can you prove otherwise? No you cant.

Marc: No, I live in upstate NY. Why do you ask?
---NurseRobert on 6/3/12


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NurseRobert: If it is true that you believe neither the man-made, naturalistic theories of origins, nor the Bible explanation, then I still don't know what you do believe! Would you please share your own personal beliefs on the subject with us? I think that's what we're here for.



Cluny: "Besides, the change doesn't and cannot happen in Protestant churches."

Why is that?


---jerry6593 on 6/2/12


NurseRobert,

You wouldn't live in Hawaii by any chance?
---marc on 6/1/12


Cluny, I am glad you know the bread is bread and the wine wine. From my reading of Scripture Jesus was commanding we remember Him everytime we eat bread and drink wine. It therefore Has a great Spiritual significance without a physical change in substance. Oterwise we are cannibals.

However you used it as an argument against taking Genesis 1 at face-value, as written. Your point does not stand, because as you admit the bread and wine (no matter how significant) are still bread and wine. However Genesis 1 is God's sober literal account of His creative acts. No one in Scripture takes it otherwise and we offend God if we reinterpret His word away from reality.
---Warwick on 5/30/12


Jerry I think NurseRobert has already answered the question for you. He wrote "The big bangers base their beliefs on conjecture and observation, the creationists base theres on the Bible and what they observe." In reality all Christians must be Creationists or deny that Jesus is Creator. NurseRobert freely admits Creationists get their view from God's word, and observation. While big bangers base their beliefs upon observation based upon conjecture. He clearly shows Christians, as one would expect, base their views upon ther Word of God, He being the only eye-witness, and the only perfectly trustworthy one at that.
---Warwick on 5/30/12


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Jerry, on this site there are ALWAYS trick questions. People here like to play gotcha games. I will give my answer some thought and get back to you..

And yes, granddaughters are very special! Im lucky to have two of them, as well as two grandsons.
---NurseRobert on 5/30/12


\\Reading this is my body/ blood we must consider if Jesus is recommending cannibalism. Definitely not.\\

That's what the Roman pagan accused Christians of.

\\ Secondly I have looked and ther is no flesh and blood, at communion.\\

No one said it took on the APPEARANCE of flesh and blood.

Besides, the change doesn't and cannot happen in Protestant churches.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/30/12


NurseRobert: You are indeed the contributor to whom I referred. Now's your chance. They are not trick questions, and there are no wrong answers to questions about opinions.

What do YOU believe about origins, if anything? And what is the basis of your beliefs?

P.S. I also have a new grandaughter. Great, aren't they?


---jerry6593 on 5/30/12


MarkV: "You told me God commanded man to keep Saturday Sabbath. You were wrong and couldn't find one passage to that lie. Now you changed your tune"

You know full well that it is YOU who is the liar, as you have admitted in acknowledging your having brought up this subject. What I have said in the past, and still contend, is that God Himself commands the keeping of the seventh-day Sabbath. To deny that is to deny the Bible. You have yet to explain how you would derive that day of the week for yourself. I have pointed out that the rest of the world has concluded that that day is sundown Fri. to sundown Sat. But you stand in singular opposition to the entire world. Good grief!


---jerry6593 on 5/30/12


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Lets define what is meant by Literal interpretation. Throughout the centuries since God revealed the Scriptures, there have been a number of approaches to the study of God's Word. Most interpretors have emphasized Literal interpretaion. which is meant interpreting God's Word the way one interpretes normal human communication. A parable as a parable, a metaphor as a metaphor, a similie as a similie, historical facts as such. Figures of speech as such. Words are to be interpreted according to the authors intention. If the author meant to interpreted literally, we err if we interpret them symbolically and so on.
---Mark_V. on 5/30/12


Cluny when we read literature we take it at face value unless there is solid reason not to do so.

Reading this is my body/ blood we must consider if Jesus is recommending cannibalism. Definitely not. Secondly I have looked and ther is no flesh and blood, at communion.
Conversely when I read Geneis 1 I see absolutely no reason to take it as other than straight-forward historical prose. Jesus and the apostles regularly quoted from or alluded to Genesis and always as sober historical reality. For one example see Mark 10:6-8 where Jesus quotes Genesis 1:27 and 2:24 as real history, the real basis for Christian marriage. No poetry, allegory or metaphor here.
---Warwick on 5/29/12


\\There must be a point where you accept things as literal.. why not Genesis 1?\\

Do you accept, "This is My Body, this is My Blood" as literal?

If not, when will YOU come to the truth as written in God's word?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/29/12


If not at Genesis 1:1 In the beginning..., when does the Bible start being a history book, a book of historical facts?
Abraham?
Noah?
Enoch?
Cain?
Adam?
Day 4?
Throw out Genesis 1 and we're ok?
There must be a point where you accept things as literal.. why not Genesis 1?
Because the Earth is not eternal as in the views in Jesus' day, but only 4.5 billion years old?
When will they come to the truth that is written in God's Word?
When man's truth and God's truth seems to collide which gets "reinterpreted" the most?
I believe even the orthodox believed in Genesis 1 literally for 1700 years or so...
---micha9344 on 5/29/12


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\\I wouldve stood a heretic because I dont believe in the in Biblical account of creation. \\

It depends on what you mean "don't believe", I suppose.

I don't think (as opposed to don't believe) that Genesis is supposed to be either history or science, as we understand those disciplines today. That's why Genesis should not be compared with science, but the creation myths of the surrounding contemporary cultures.

I DO believe (as opposed to think) that Genesis says that the physical universe is NOT self-existing or eternal but has a cause, which is God, and that it exists and is sustained solely by His will and loving creative power.


Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/29/12


Jerry, how quickly you change your tune. You told me God commanded man to keep Saturday Sabbath. You were wrong and couldn't find one passage to that lie. Now you changed your tune, now you say,

" Could it be because it points up your own non-biblical views on the subject? It was God - not Jerry - who commanded US to REMEMBER the Sabbath Day."

Now its only "Sabbath day" that God commanded, not "Saturday" Of course you were wrong. Those who go to church on Sunday remember the Sabbath Day. You remember it by going on Saturday. Do we mind? No. But don't throw your corrupt teachings at us. We answer to the Spirit of the Law, not the letter of the law.
---Mark_V. on 5/29/12


Jerry, if someone else put the blog up, I would think different then I do now since you put the blog up.
Concerning creation, we believers believe the Word of God to be true. We read what is written, without adding any words of our own. God created we believe by faith. Some here do not believe the Bible accounts. They are in big trouble because they get to choose what they want to believe and what not to believe. They become the standard of truth. Still at enmity against God. Nothing has really changed. But to the believer, the only standard of Truth is the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 5/29/12


The question was addressed to another contributor on a previous blog,
---jerry6593 on 5/25/12

Sorry to be late to this party. Ive been with my new grand daughter. Cluny, I believe Im the contributor to whom Jerry is referring. During the Inquisition, I wouldve stood a heretic because I dont believe in the in Biblical account of creation.

These questions get us nowhere. There is no definitive proof of either side. The big bangers base their beliefs on conjecture and observation, the creationists base theres on the Bible and what they observe. None of us were there at the creation of the world. There are too many unanswered questions, on either side. This area of discussion will not be solved in our lifetime.
---NurseRobert on 5/29/12


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"God is Light", and in Him is no darkness. HOW THEN did darkness "fall upon" anything? Obviously there was total light and darkness fell upon it.

This too can be see in the Garden. God created Adam /Eve, in perfect light, and darkness fell upon them, being without form and void.

Now Jesus has come into the world, God saying Let there be Light.

Even in Genesis 1, we see a type and shaddow of our New Birth.

Anything God created IN THE BEGINNING would in fact be perfect...not something without form and void and darkness falling upon it unless something happened.

AND, How many years did Adam/Eve lived in the garden b4 sin. It could have been millions.
---kathr4453 on 5/29/12


MarkV: "Cluny ... any time Jerry makes a statement or puts out a blog question, in the end it comes down to the Seventh Day Sabbath."

You are so funny! It was you - not me or Cluny who brought up the Sabbath! Cluny is irritated whenever I bring up Creation, becauses it points up his non-biblical views on the subject. You seem to be irritated by the subject of the Sabbath. Could it be because it points up your own non-biblical views on the subject? It was God - not Jerry - who commanded US to REMEMBER the Sabbath Day. I'm simply obeying His command. Who are you obeying?


---jerry6593 on 5/29/12


Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

This does not refer to the begining of God. IT refers to the begining of this earth and solar systemm

the angels which God also created have a different begining
---francis on 5/28/12


Cluny, I agree with you, it is my experience that any time Jerry makes a statement or puts out a blog question, in the end it comes down to the Seventh Day Sabbath. He either speaks of when the earth was created, and how much time a day has, then he speaks about the letter of the law. All leading to Saturday Sabbath. This subject or topic has been going on, way before I started here on line.

---Mark_V. on 5/28/12


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Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

We don't know when that BEGINNING WAS. Scripture never says, on the first day God created the Heavens and earth.

We know in the Beginning darkness "fell upon" the face of the deep, yet the first day God said let there be Light.

In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Did God come into existance on the First day??

So, the Begining and First day are two entirely different times.

I don't believe the gap theory in any way this takes away from anything. I believe the gap theory is when Satan and 1/3 of the angels fell which caused DARKNESS to FALL UPON the face of the deep.
---kathr4453 on 5/28/12


Craig, the earth was created on day 1. In Hebrew every verse (not 1:1 as nothing preceeded this) begins with 'And' Hebrew 'waw.' This means each statement is connected sequentially and chronologically. Each of God's actions follows directly after that in the preceeding verse. Therefore from "In the beginning" to "And there was evening and there was morning-the first day" is 1 linked action. Throughout Genesis 1 "And the was evening and there was morning-the first, second, day" etc, always refers to Gods actions in the day mentioned. Day 1 is no exception.

This brings Genesis ch. 1 into line with Exodus 20:11 which says God made everything in 6 days. Your view has them in conflict.
---Warwick on 5/26/12


John what you have written about is the old Gap Theory, a compromise view (compromising the Bible and changing worldly views) now mostly discredited as it does not fit with Scripture or long-ages evolutionary ideas.

Genesis 1:2 refers to the earth before God caused the land to appear, and before any vegetation or creatures were created. Void means empty, which the earth was before God filled it.
---Warwick on 5/25/12


aka: "life is either the product of chance or the product of a creation. you have to make more leaps of faith to believe life is a product of chance than a product of creation."

Well put! In fact, science and mathematics confirm that the origin and diversity of the life that we see by random chance is absolutely impossible. Thus, belief in a non-supernatural system of origins is blind faith at its worst.


---jerry6593 on 5/26/12


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Scott1: "is still creating the heavens and the earth."

The Bible disagrees with you:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.


"we play with science at the feet of our heavenly Father"

Good point! Most of the great scientists (e.g. Newton) in history saw nature as a revelation of God's handiwork. (Although the acceleration of gravity is only 9.81 m/s^2 on earth.)


---jerry6593 on 5/26/12


Dinosaurs are land animals just like the komodo dragon and alligator. They were made on day six of creation.
The reason people find them buried in rock layers layed down by water all over the world is because of the gobal flood in Noah's day. And if you know what I mean by "day" in that sentence, how could you not know what it means in Exo 20:11?
---micha9344 on 5/25/12


Heliocentrism is a lie!

My reasons:
Earth already exists prior to "Day 1". Check it out for yourself

And God said...
Day 1 Day and Night
Day 2 Atmosphere
Day 3 Vegetation
Day 4 Sun, moon and stars created

Science bases everything on the sun and it being the reason for our existence. To believe completely in what science teaches is to deny that God created the Earth BEFORE everything else we know!

I often wondered why when star gazing and considering how many other worlds are out there, how disconnected from God I felt at that very moment. Because I was grieving the Spirit by believing a lie.
---CraigA on 5/25/12


Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
---francis on 5/24/12


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Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth - Which God would have created perfectly.
Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form or void. Some biblical scholars translate that verse as:
And the earth became without form or void.
Therefore there could be many years between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.
Which would explain what scientists have found (eg dinasour skeletons).
---John on 5/24/12


life is either the product of chance or the product of a creation.

you have to make more leaps of faith to believe life is a product of chance than a product of creation.

Since I am a man capable of only very little faith when it comes to life itself, i believe life is a function of creation an not that of chance.

therefore, for me..

Gen 1:1 In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.
---aka on 5/24/12


Cluny: I know that you think that this blog was meant just for you because of your belief in Theistic Evolution while professing to be "Orthodox", but it wasn't. The blog question was addressed to another contributor on a previous blog, but he did not have time to respond because of that dreadful 75-post limit. Sorry if you're disappointed that some of us don't consider you to be the center of the universe.


---jerry6593 on 5/25/12


Jerry, you posted, "Some Christians don't believe the Bible account of Creation". This is not a true statement, for every true statement accepts the truth of the Biblical account, which is the chronicle of Christ creating his world and all things in it. Whenever a statement begins, Christians do not believe the Bible, or Christians do not believe Christ: or else, Christians believe antiBible ideas and lies like evolution, mythologies, et cetera, then this is falsehood and the person believing the falsehood is not a real Christian with Christ living in them.
---Eloy on 5/25/12


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May be Satan actually believes a big bang made the universe. Jesus says, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven," in Luke 10:18. I can see there was a big bang of thundering praise in heaven when Satan got smacked out. And then, all of a sudden after that bang, there he was discovering the earth, thinking the bang made it.
---willie_c: on 5/25/12


My view, God in perfect time created the heavens and the earth and is still creating the heavens and the earth. God has given us some wisdom and thinking ability to discover some relationships hold true in God's great creation, for example gravity-9.81 m/s square. What this means is that we get to explore more and more of His infinite wisdom and power as we explore his awesomeness. Scripture - "all of creation glorifies the Lord." Just like a child plays with toys at the feet of his father, we play with science at the feet of our heavenly Father through our 5 senses. yes we do get somethings right (we think) and somethings we get things wrong, for example the earth is flat. we got that wrong because we misunderstood our 5 senses.
---Scott1 on 5/24/12


I thank Jerry for persisting in posing such questions. Many bloggers here passionately defend Scripture but show 'feet of clay' when it comes to defending Genesis Creation, which is the only foundation for the resason that Jesus came to die in our place. Undermine Genesis and you undermine the one and only gospel.

If there is any obsession here it is from those who refuse to believe what God's word says about Creation. Jesus and the apostles quoted from or alluded to the first 11 chapters of Genesis no less than 107 times. And always as sober historical truth. But the no sayers here will not believe this. They are so committed to worldly views of beginnings they reject even the words of Jesus Christ. This is an unhealthy obsession.
---Warwick on 5/24/12


You're really obsessed with this matter, aren't you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/24/12


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Jesus was and is the vision of our Father's creation.

It was and is all about Jesus and all that Jesus means to our Father.

So, Jesus is "the Beginning of the creation of God" (in Revelation 3:2) . . . "the firstborn over all creation." (in Colossians 1:15)

Day one . . . light divided from darkness
Day two . . . the firmament dividing the waters
Day three . . . earth and seas, plants
Day four . . . lights, sun, moon
Day five . . . sea creatures and birds
Day six . . . land creatures, man

I find it interesting that God would keep track of time so He did each of these in one day.
---willie_c: on 5/24/12


Can anyone really be a Bible believing Christian & not believe in the Bible recorded Creation account? Should "real Christians" listen to the Big Bang deafeningly noisy rhetoric of evolutionist or should "real Christians" be listening to, hearing & obeying the words of God apart from all of the hubbub & doubt driven racket of pseudo & non-Christians?

What do you believe Jerry & why?
---Leon on 5/24/12


I believe in one God !the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. -Nicene Creed
---Catholicus on 5/24/12


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