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Jesus Author Of Ten Commandments

Since Jesus is the Author of the Ten Commandments, does He intend that Christians should keep them?

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 ---jerry6593 on 5/28/12
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"Father, Son and Holy Spirit, 3 persons/Godhead...oft demonstrated." Warwick

Then you shouldn't have difficulty providing one verse that says the above.

For 1,500 years before Christ the monotheistic Jews worshipped their God Jehovah as one, not as a Trinity.

If 1st century Christians were now to radically change their view of God (and their very salvation would depend on accepting this new idea) don't you think there would be one clear statement that God is a Trinity?

Paul explains Christ's resurrection using the entire 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians.

But not one word to teach and explain the most monumental change that a Jewish/Christian convert would have to make.

Why?
---scott on 6/7/12


"If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." Marc

You miss several fundamental points with your literal interpretation of Jesus' words.

1. Jesus is not his father. They are two distinct individuals as indicated at 1 Thess 3:11:

"Now may our God and Father himself, and our Lord Jesus, direct our way unto to you". ASV


2. The Father was/is in heaven- Jesus repeatedly told his disciples that his Father was (not right in front of them, on earth, but) in heaven.

"...Give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." Matt. 5:16 (See also Matt. 5:45, 6:1, 7:11, 10:32, 18:19, etc., etc.
---scott on 6/7/12


Scott, that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the 3 persons of the Godhead has been oft demonstrated on these pages. You have had nothing sensible to say in contradiction.

I am sure you believe the Father is God. That the Son shares God's attributes, names and titles -Creator, Redeemer, Saviour and the Alpha and the Omega demonstrates He is God. He, called Himself God, as did His apostles and enemies.

Peter equates lying to the Holy Spirit with lying to God. We baptize people into their 3 names. That He can be blasphemed means He is God, not an impersonal force-He counsels, teaches, reminds,testifies, commands, calls Himself I and has fellowship with us.

Not 1 verse but verse after verse, after verse.
---Warwick on 6/7/12


Francis > "If you cannot see the difference between healing a man,"

Oh, I can see. It is you who cannot see the difference. You cannot see the difference in the commandments given in the 10Cs and the commandments given by Christ in the law of Christ.

It is clear that the Jesus you know is not the same Jesus i know... not the Jesus that was preached by the apostles.
---jonweckl on 6/7/12


Francis,
You've been so confused by the confusing doctrines of your leader who have destroyed "the way of thy paths."

Initially you were debating the story in Numbers by using the babylonian captivity and how they "made strict rules about how to keep sabbath". Now you're admitting that the man did in fact broke the sabbath law. Which is which?

I think you will only understand that what Christ preached was the gospel and not the 10Cs when you really, truly understand what Christ meant when He said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." (Mat.5:17)
---jonweckl on 6/7/12




Lee: "And to whom did Jesus command to 'remember the Sabbath day'? If you answered to the people of Israel, you got the right answer."

If you'll recall, there was a "mixed multitude" of non-Hebrews among the children of Israel. The Sabbath commandment even contains reference to non-Hebrews as "the stranger that is within thy gates".

And to whom did Jesus preach primarily? If you answered to the people of Israel, you got the right answer.

You still are without an answer to the question of why God would write a defective Law. Was He inept, prone to mistakes, or just playing a joke on us?


---jerry6593 on 6/7/12


Scott wrote ''seeing Jesus Christ was LIKE seeing the Father himself.''

Really? I think that this is a clear example of JWthink i.e. if it doesn't agree with our theology, ADD SOME MEANING CHANGING WORDS.

Jesus said "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."
---Marc on 6/6/12


---jonweckl on 5/31/12
If you cannot see the difference between healing a man, or helping one in pain and suffering on the sabbath, and gathering sticks or doing any servile work on the sabbath, then you do not know who Jesus is.

Isaiah 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me, I am weary to bear [them].

Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
---francis on 6/6/12


jerry6593//Why do you think Jesus wrote "Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy" if He intended that you forget it?
---
And to whom did Jesus command to 'remember the Sabbath day'? If you answered to the people of Israel, you got the right answer.

If you say to His church, they all you need to do is to quote Book, Chapter and verse from the New Testament.

You really need to give it up, Jerry, as any argument you may give in favor of observing the Sabbath- a tenet from a covenant that was declared obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), is very very very weak!
---lee1538 on 6/6/12


---jonweckl on 5/31/12

The man gathering sticks on the sabbath was in direct violation of the sabbath. He was to gather his sticks and manna on the 6th day, what the bible calls the preperaion day, rather than gathering on the sabbath.

In matthew 12, the issue is very different, it is whether or not you can help someone wo is in need on the sabbath.

The answer in matthew 12 12 is YES, you can do good deed on the sabbath.

Can you see the difference between a man doing SERVILE work of the sabbath which should have been done during the six working days, and a man in pain who needs relief on the sabbath?
---francis on 6/6/12




"Outrageous statement"- Marc (2)

But much more is involved in that expression than mere representation. The request, "Lord, show us the Father," suggests that Philip wanted Jesus to provide a visible manifestation of God similar to the visions of Moses, Elijah and Isaiah in ancient times. (Ex. 24:10, 1 Ki. 19:9-13, Isa. 6:1-5).

But in those visions Gods servants saw, not God himself, but symbolic representations of him. (Ex. 33:17-22, John 1:18)

Jesus' reply indicated that Philip already had something better than visions of that type. Since Jesus perfectly reflected the personality of his Father, whom only the Son fully 'knew,' seeing Jesus Christ was like seeing the Father himself. Matt. 11:27.
---scott on 6/6/12


"Scripture says..." Warwick

"Scripture says there is 1 one God (Spirit not flesh) comprising 3 persons- Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Warwick

What Bible are you using that says anything like this? Chapter and verse please.
---scott on 6/6/12


"Outrageous statement"- Marc (1)

Outrageous to whom?

Repeatedly the Scriptures refer to Jesus as the one sent from God as his representative. (John 3:17, 28, 34, 5:23, 24).

The Bible often describes persons who represent others as if they were the ones represented.

1. Matthew relates that a "a centurion came forward to him [Jesus], beseeching him" to heal his slave. (8:5-13) Yet the parallel account (Luke 7:1-10) says that the centurion "sent elders" to Jesus.

2. Mark writes that "James and John came forward" asking to sit at Jesus' right hand (Mark 10:35-37) But Matthew says this request was made by their "mother" (Matt. 20:20, 21).

Continued
---scott on 6/6/12


Francis on 6/5/12

Again, a lot of babble, no substance.

When I 1st mentioned about the man in Numbers15, you babbled about Babylonian captivity and that "once they got out of captivity they made strict rules about how to keep sabbath." -- which, no matter how you stretch logic would not fit into the story.

1. the story in Numbers happened when they were still wandering in the wilderness. -- How is that related to the babylonian captivity?

2. the man was killed not because the people or even Moses "made strict rules about sabbath", but because IT WAS COMMANDED BY GOD.
---jonweckl on 6/6/12


Scott, Scripture says there is 1 one God (Spirit not flesh) comprising 3 persons- Father, Son and Holy Spirit. When coming into the world the Son says "a body have you prepared for me," Hebrews 10:5.

What is Jesus' body like? "the image of God" 2 Corinthians 4:4. "the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature" Hebrews 1:3. The image of the invisible God, the exact imprint of His nature. Jesus was asked-show us the Father and Jesus said seeing me is seeing the Father because Jesus is the only physical representation of God. In seeing the Son we see God the 3 in 1 which obviously includes the Father He being also God.
---Warwick on 6/6/12


jonwiki: "If as you claim, the law on sabbath in the 10Cs has always been what Jesus commanded, then why was that man commanded by God to be stoned to death?"

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Why do you think Jesus wrote "Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy" if He intended that you forget it?


---jerry6593 on 6/6/12


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francis, were you not under the law before Christ came into your heart? Were you not in jail, sentenced to death? Weren't you unable to escape?
Now you have been set free. Your sentence was given to Christ. He freed you from your sentence. Why will you not accept that fact? Why are you trying to get out when you are already out? You are no longer under the sentence of the law. Stop playing games with the Word of God, the gospel of your salvation. You make Jesus sacrifice mean nothing, when in reality your own merits means nothing. The merits of Christ are everything.
If you are not saved, then it is impossible for you to believe. I am beginning to think you are still guilty.
---Mark_V. on 6/6/12


What commandments do we do to please Him?

1John3:22,23
"And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST and LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as He gave us commandment."

1: Believe on Jesus
2: Love one another.
It's 2, ONLY TWO commandments.

The law of sin and death that the SDAs teach has passed away.
Christ is the END of the law for righteousness, to everyone that believes, Rom 10:4
---Haz27 on 6/6/12


Francis, since i know you will never answer those questions, i leave you these:

"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and WOMEN RULE OVER THEM. O my people, THEY WHICH LEAD THEE cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." (Isa.3:12)

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ, and THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN IS THE MAN, and the head of Christ is God." (1Cor.11:3)
---jonweckl on 6/5/12


"The main cause of the Babylonian captivity..." -- Why are we suddenly in babylonian captivity?

Really?!
---jonweckl on 6/5/12

Yes if only you would READ the bible:

2 Chronicles 36:21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years
Nehemiah 13:17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?
Nehemiah 13:18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.
---francis on 6/5/12


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Scott,

Re John 14:8,9, Jesus clarifies his outrageous statement with another subsequent outrageous statement. It's mentioned several times the Father lives in Jesus and will live in the believer (v.23). However, Jesus claims He, Jesus, "am in the Father" (v. 11). This clarifies why Jesus can assert with authority seeing the Son, you've seen the Father. The Watchtower can't patch it together because a mere creature can neither live in the Father, come "out of [ex] the Father" (John 16:28) nor contain "ALL THE FULLNESS of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:9).

Scott, as the Watchtower's representative, explain how a created being can do all that.
---Marc on 6/5/12


Francis > "Your comments are not worth replying to at this time. They show a vast lack of bilical knowledge. You are not reading your bible at all, you are just saying what cmes to your mind."

A lot of babble, but no substance. That's what you do when you're caught in the corner with your distorted belief.

If i am so "UNKNOWLEDGEABLE" about the bible, why can you not explain Numbers15:32-36? If as you claim, the law on sabbath in the 10Cs has always been what Jesus commanded, then why was that man commanded by God to be stoned to death?
---jonweckl on 6/5/12


Scott,

Your argument's subtext was 'people in glass houses'. It wasn't, despite your present DISHONEST distortion of this exchange, about an insignificant detail that these three were occultists, but whether Watchtower's use of Greber's and Thompson's translations is comparable to Origen's use of the three ancients. Greber and Thompson asked demons John 1:1's meaning and were told Jesus is ''a god''. However, the three didn't ask demons to translate the Old Testament. In any case, Origen merely used their translations to demonstrate the LXX's superiority, as overlooked by you when you cut-and-paste Epipanius from a JW-inspired site.

If you think you've won a victory, Ill give it to you, but it's a tad hollow.
---Marc on 6/5/12


"I have never said Jesus is the Father..." Warwick

"It is clear Jesus believes that in seeing Him they have seen the Father." Warwick, 1/20/12

Also:

"Scott you repeat the blog question "Can you see God the Father and talk to Him one on one? This is answered...John 14:8,9 "Philip said to him, Lord, show us the Father...Jesus said to him, Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father." Warwick 2/24/12

Certainly a literal application.

So, give us your exegesis of John 14:8,9. Remember, the disciples ask Jesus to 'show them the Father' not "show us God."
---scott on 6/5/12


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---Mark_V. on 6/5/12
Not everything in the Ot was a type, everything in the earthly sanctuary was a type.

Two examples:
1: Tree of life is not a type since it re-apears again in the new eartgh
2: Sabbath is not a type since is continues into the new heavens.
Also not that these were not given AFTER SIN, but before sin.

I agree egypt was bondage, SIN is also bondage. But no man has VER been in bondage by obedience to the Law of God


jonweckl on 6/5/12
Your comments are not worth replying to at this time. They show a vast lack of bilical knowledge. You are not reading your bible at all, you are just saying what cmes to your mind.
---francis on 6/5/12


Scott I have never said Jesus is the Father. I have pointed this out before. In the real world Jesus said "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" John 14:9. If anyone is saying He is the Father it is not me but Jesus. But He isn't, as He is uniquely aware He is God the Son but "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" 2 Corinthians 4:4

Jesus 'God with us' is the very representation of The God, Greek Ho Theos, applied directly to Jesus, John 20:28. Jesus tells Phillip seeing Him is seeing the Father as He is the very physical representation of God who is invisible Spirit.
---Warwick on 6/5/12


francis, everything in the Old Testament is a type to the Truth (Jesus Christ)
In the O. T. Israel was in bondage to Pharaoh, he was their law. They could not escape. Until God set them free. But once they were free, they begin complaining and wanted to go back to Pharaoh.
Now you are doing the same. you were in bondage to the law of God, and Jesus comes to set you free. He tells you, "I came to set you free, I am the way, the Truth and the life" and you answer "I don't believe you. I will remain here in bondage." Jesus say's, "but I am the only Way out" and you say, "I will find my own way out" but you never can set yourself free. Only fools refuse freedom.
---Mark_V. on 6/5/12


Another distortion by Francis.

"The main cause of the Babylonian captivity..." -- Why are we suddenly in babylonian captivity?

"..they made strict rules about how to keep sabbath... contrary to the spirit and intend of the sabbath."

Really?!
Numbers15:32 "while the children of Israel WERE IN THE WILDERNESS," -- where were they? They were still in the wilderness.
v.35-36 "And THE LORD SAID UNTO MOSES, The man shall be surely put to death...and he died, AS THE LORD COMMANDED MOSES." -- so who made the strict rules about how to keep sabbath? It is very clear that it was God who commanded the man to be killed. What "strict rules" are you talking about?
---jonweckl on 6/5/12


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Apparently Marc forgets his snarky accusation:

"The only citations about Theodotian, Symmachus, and Aquilla being Gnostic occultists were from 200 sites...all JW sites. There is no supporting evidence to back up this cut-and-paste, plagiarised error. Care to do some work and explain your claim? Even Wikipedia doesn't mention this." Marc

Yes I did some "work", two minutes worth and posted a response that proves the "error" was yours. I know that stings when your flip comments are so drenched in sarcasm.

"No supporting evidence to back up this cut-and-paste, plagiarised error."

DId you not say the above? Were you right or wrong?
---scott on 6/4/12


Francis on 6/1/12 > "You really and truely have no idae what you are talking about, neither from the bible , nor the history"

Then why can you not say what IS THE COMMANDMENT ON SABBATH AS STATED IN THE 10Cs? I have asked you several times but instead you dodge it and babble.

You babble about Ezekiel, Chronicles, Nehemiah but you did not answer the example i gave in Numbers15. Why was the man killed? Tell us. And while you're trying to find an answer for that, remember this:
"and the LORD SAID unto Moses, the man shall be surely put to death..." (v.35)
"and he died, as the LORD COMMANDED MOSES" (v.36)
---jonweckl on 6/4/12


Francis on 6/3/12 > "Why do you think, that it was no longer nessessary for believers to be circumcised, but they had to continue to honour thier mother and father?"

Because Christ commanded christians to obey their parents. On the other hand, he did not command us that we need to be circumcised.

Unlike you, when God said that the old covenant will be done away with and replaced with a new covenant, christians believe that the entire covenant was done away, and not just select certain things which are not convenient to observe and keep others which are beneficial -- say, "tithes"?!
---jonweckl on 6/5/12


Mark_V. on 6/4/12

Obeying the law is the OPPOSITE of bondage

Psalms 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

The bible calls it the law of liberty

What you want to say is that those who trangress the law are in the bondage of sin, and christ has redeemed us from the curse of the lawe, being made a curse for us


Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid.
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
---francis on 6/4/12


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Scott,

Your latest comment's the red-herring, another instance of dishonesty.

Recall I demonstrated Watchtower quotes favourably from Thompson's occult translation, as it did with Greber's. You responded Origen used occult translations and ''proved'' this via cut-and-paste of Epiphanius' book from JW sites. If you'd properly researched Epiphanius his 19th passage gives the reason: ''[B]ut Origen, having learned that the translation of the seventy-two [i.e. Septuagint] was correct, placed it in the middle so that it might refute the translations on either side [i.e. the occultists]. This one thing only Origen did helpfully.''

When are you going to understand that the Watchtower's arguments always involve lying misquotes?
---Marc on 6/4/12


why do you not understand Jesus has to set us free from the bondage of the law? ---Mark_V. on 6/4/12
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: Presenting the wisdom of Mark_V who believes that if he does these things:

Exodus 20:3 have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 not make unto thee any graven image,
Exodus 20:7 not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother
Exodus 20:13 not kill.
Exodus 20:14 not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 not steal.
Exodus 20:16 not bear false witness
Exodus 20:17 not covet

Then he is in BONDAGE of THE LAW
---francis on 6/4/12


"If you'd properly researched Epiphanius...the reason..." Marc

Memory refresher:

You pontificated: "The only citations about Theodotian, Symmachus, and Aquilla being Gnostic occultists were from 200 sites...all JW sites. There is no supporting evidence to back up this cut-and-paste, plagiarised error. Care to do some work and explain your claim? Even Wikipedia doesn't mention this." Marc

It took 2 minutes to find (on a Non-Witness, Church Father site) the Aquila/Epiphanius citation that proved your claim unequivocally false.

The "reason' that Origen used "Gnostic occultists" that you now post is a red-herring and different subject.

Apology accepted.
---scott on 6/4/12


francis, why do you not understand Jesus has to set us free from the bondage of the law? Do you even know what that bondage is? We were found guilty and so condemned. Jesus is the only one who can set us free. When a man is set free, it is because his debt has been paid. Only Jesus Christ can set you free. No matter how much you try with your own works to escape condemnation, you never can, and will remain there guilty until your sentencing At the Great White Throne of Judgment. In the court of God you are guilty without Christ.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18).
---Mark_V. on 6/4/12


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Rob: You have no understanding of scripture whatsoever. As you have been shown repeatedly, you try to use Galatians as an excuse to continue in your sin, when this is expressly contradicted by Jesus own words.

Try to pick the correct version of Scripture below:

Mat 1:21 ... and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their SINS.

Mat 1:21 ... and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from THE LAW.

P.S. I would NEVER read the "Clear Word", as Ellen White gave us explicit council NOT to write our own Bible.


---jerry6593 on 6/4/12


When Jesus came to earth he did Not command man, Follow the laws of the old testament, instead he said, The Kingdom of heaven is come upon you, Follow Me, and Follow My Commandments. For where is each person's personal sacrifice in the old testament? Now Jesus says, unless you take up your own cross and follow after me, you cannot be my disciple. He said all the Law and the Prophets from God are based upon only 2 Commandments: Love God first and completely, and love others in need just as you care for yourself: This do, and you will live.
---Eloy on 6/4/12


---Rob on 6/3/12
Let me see if you have any biblical knowledge at all

Why do you think, that it was no longer nessessary for believers to be circumcised, but they had to continue to honour thier mother and father?
---francis on 6/3/12


Jerry, you wrote Jesus did not come to set you free from the LAW, but to set you free from the bondage of your sin.

Jerry are you saying what is written in the Book of Galatians are lies, ie

Galatians 2:15-21.

Galatians 3:11-25.

Galatians 5:16-18.

I guess it is foolish of me to ask if you believe what is written in Galatians are lies. Over and over again you have proven you reject them because to you what is clearly written are nothing but a bunch of lies, and you also reject Christ.

Then again, what is written in Galatians in the Clear Word Bible, which is published by Seventh Day Adventist is probably completely different.
---Rob on 6/3/12


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Scott,

Recall I demonstrated Watchtower quotes favourably from J.S. Thompson's occult translation, as it did with Greber's. You responded that Origen used occult translations and ''proved'' this via cut-and-paste of Epiphanius' book from JW sites. If you'd properly researched Epiphanius his 19th passage gives the reason: ''[B]ut Origen, having learned that the translation of the seventy-two [i.e. Septuagint] was correct, placed it in the middle so that it might refute the translations on either side [i.e. the occultists]. This one thing only Origen did helpfully.''

When are you going to understand that the Watchtower's arguments always involve lying misquotes?
---Marc on 6/3/12


MarkV: "free from the bondage of the law"

Jesus did not come to set you free from the LAW, but to set you free from the bondage of your sin. And since sin is defined as the transgression of the law, then by your rejection of the law, you reject your own salvation from sin! Is that what you really want?


---jerry6593 on 6/3/12


Psalms 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
Psalms 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

Adam and Eve walked in LIBERTY until satan came and offered then freedom from God's bondage. The same freedom Mark_V is offering

Satan told them that God had them in bondage because God had withheld from them his wisdom.

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Once Adan and Eve ate, they were then in bondage of sin.

spiritual bondage only comes when we walk away from the law of God. Mark_V says keeping Gods laws is bondage
---francis on 6/2/12


You want to speak on the law, don't include them with those who are free from the bondage of the law.
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: Presenting the wisdom of Mark_V who believes that if he does these things:

Exodus 20:3 have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 not make unto thee any graven image,
Exodus 20:7 not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother
Exodus 20:13 not kill.
Exodus 20:14 not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 not steal.
Exodus 20:16 not bear false witness
Exodus 20:17 not covet

Then he is in BONDAGE of THE LAW
---francis on 6/2/12


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francis, I believe it is you who does not know what you are talking about. First you give the Old Testament law that could not save anyone, to try to proof a point, and when someone answers you, you bring out the teachings for believers in ( Gal. 5:22,23) who are saved by the Spirit to proof your answer is correct. You try to mix both to answer questions. And then tell others they don't know what they are talking about. Obedience of the law saved no one, for no one could keep the whole law. The fruits of the Spirit are for believers. So what's up with that? You want to speak on the law, don't include them with those who are free from the bondage of the law.
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12


---jonweckl on 6/1/12

You have no idea what you are talking about

You need to read talmud and mishna

The MAIN cause of the Babylonian captivity was israels depature from the sabbath Eziekel 20 and 2 Chronicles 36:21, Nehemiah 13:18

Once they got out of captivity they made strict rules about how to keep sabbath, Those laws were contrary to the spirit and intend of the sabbath.

it is againt those laws, like not healing on the sabbath which jesus spoke out

You really and truely have no idae what you are talking about, neither from the bible , nor the history
---francis on 6/1/12


Francis, let me try mo make my post on 5/31/12 a little clearer.

Gal.5:22-23 actually concurs with what Christ mentioned in Mat.12:12 "...it is lawful to do good on sabbath..." Now, why did Christ say this in Mat.12:12? -- because in the 10Cs, the command was "thou shalt NOT DO ANY WORK." (Deut.5:14).

Should we now say that Christ merely clarified the sabbath law in the 10Cs? -- No, because if that was really the law in the 10Cs, God would not have commanded the man in Numbers15:32-36 to be stoned to death.

So why did God command that the man be killed? -- because he broke the sabbath law enforced at that time. So Christ in Mat.12:12 is in fact, showing a "change of the law."
---jonweckl on 6/1/12


Francis > "There is NO LAW against doing good deed on any day, especially the sabbath day"

Tell that to the man gathering sticks on a sabbath who was stoned to death. He was doing a good deed, he was gathering sticks to kindle fire to keep his family warm. (Numbers15:32-36). Better yet, tell that to God, for He commanded that that man be stoned to death.

So is there NO LAW? -- Wrong.. again. There was a law... the law on sabbath declared in the 10Cs. Christ's words in Mat.12:12 is not the sabbath law in the 10Cs, but the law of Christ -- the gospel.

You keep insisting that the 10Cs is still enforced but you're quoting commandments given by Christ which is not the 10Cs, but THE LAW OF CHRIST.
---jonweckl on 5/31/12


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Since Jesus is the Author of the Ten Commandments, does He intend that Christians should keep them?

YES!! But not to gain righteousness. Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. Uphold the law to show your love for God.

People step over the line by telling a man in which way he can worship the God who saved him from his sin. Its the same as offering unwanted advice on how you should be treating your husband or wife. Some people should stay out of other folks business and worry about their OWN relationship with Jesus Christ (He knows who I'm speaking to)

Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth(Romans 14:22) (case closed)
---CraigA on 5/31/12


Paul rejected his righteousness under the law (10c) as dung. He choose the righteousness which is of God by faith, which is through the faith of Christ, Phil 3:6-10

2Cor 3:7-11
"if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones (10c),...., which glory was PASSING AWAY, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be MORE glorious?
For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds MUCH MORE in glory. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. For if what (10C) is PASSING AWAY was glorious, what remains is MUCH MORE glorious."

Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes, Rom 10:4
---Haz27 on 5/31/12


"Citations about Theodotian, Symmachus, and Aquilla being Gnostic occultists...no supporting evidence...plagiarised error." Marc

Epiphanius of Salamis-

"But according to his [Aquila's] former habit, while yet thinking the things of the heathen, he had been thoroughly trained in vain astronomy, so that also after he became a Christian he never departed from this fault of his, but every day he made calculations on the horoscope of his birth. He was reproved by the teachers...But instead of standing rebuked, he became bold in disputation and tried to establish things that have no existence, tales about fate..."

Epiphanius of Salamis, Weights and Measures (1935) pp.11-83. English translation
---scott on 5/31/12


---jonweckl on 5/31/12
There is NO LAW against doing good deed on any day, especially the sabbath day

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,GOODNESS, faith,

Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
---francis on 5/31/12


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Cluny: "The Bible itself speaks of ONE law: THE LAW, an integral whole."

I think you may be on to something! This must be THE LAW that is written in our hearts under the New Covenant, since there is no other. That would mean that the Ten Commandments, at a minimum, form a part of the New Covenant!

Way to go, Cluny!!!


---jerry6593 on 5/31/12


Francis > "or this one by Jesus that not only encourages people to keep the sabbath,..."

Again, an interpretation of the scripture distorted by your belief.

How does Christ's words on Mat.12:12 "encourage people to keep the sabbath", when in fact what is written in Mat.12:12
"...it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days" --meaning it is not against the law (lawful) to do good works (do well) on sabbaths

contradicts the law on sabbath as stated in the 10Cs
"..the 7th day is the sabbath... in it thou shalt NOT DO ANY WORK..." (Deut.5:14) -- meaning ANY WORK done on sabbath is considered unlawful.
---jonweckl on 5/31/12


Nope. Follow only Jesus' New Testament Commandments. period.
---Eloy on 5/30/12
what about this one :

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

which says do not break ANY of the commandments nor teach other to break them.

or this one by Jesus that not only encourages people to keep the sabbath, but do good deeds on the sabbath

Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
---francis on 5/30/12


Nope. Follow only Jesus' New Testament Commandments. period.
---Eloy on 5/30/12


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---lee1538 on 5/30/12

That is easy easy easy.

Even thou they had pagan gods, and sacrificed to idols, they knew that murder, adultery, theft was wrong, and some of them did not do it.

But here is the thing:
Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,

Even thou they did not know the law, they will still be judged by the law, and we who know the law we will also be judged by the same law

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
---francis on 5/30/12


francis //Besides this law, commonly called moral,... The moral law does forever bind all, ...Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

You still do not have any good explanation as to how Gentiles who had not the law actually by nature observed the law. Romans 2:14

If Gentiles obeyed the law (moral), and did not observe the OT Sabbath, how then could you logically say that the Sabbath is a moral law?

You really have a problem, don't you? Your stuck!!!!
---lee1538 on 5/30/12


"You lie about my Gesenius' comment. I said that as a Jew he wouldn't accept meanings of words or verses that Christians view as pointing to Jesus." Marc


When and where did you say this? If you can't provide the post with the date we would have to ask...who's lying?

Take your time.
---scott on 5/30/12


Scott,

Re Gesenius, what's your real point? Do you think I'm anti-Semitic? Or are you desperate to win, anything?

Presently I believe it's this: You want to deceive believers and non-believers to hopefully forget that (i) your list of Bible translations never said what your Watchtower believes (that's rich!), even after Warwick and I quoted what they really said (ii) that God the Father became God the grandfather (still waiting for an explanation) is arrant nonsense.

Ever wondered why, at best, the Watchtower has only ever had a few million followers, whose tidal wave resignations match the organisation's appalling record of false doomsday prophecy?
---Marc on 5/30/12


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Yes, as He empowers. And "This is [the] first and great commandment. 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' And [the] second [is] like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Mat. 22,35-40 "Whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." Mat 7:12
---josef on 5/30/12


lee1538L
This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness, and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our ( MORAL) duty towards God, and the other six, our ( MORAL)duty to man.

Besides this law, commonly called moral,... The moral law does forever bind all, ...Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it

These good works, done in obedience to God's commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith
---francis on 5/29/12


//Already answered you in a blogs called" MORAL VERSES CEREMONIAL LAW"

Romans 2:14-16 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them ....

It would be logical to believe that since the Gentiles observed the law without having the law that was given to the nation of Israel, that the verse speaks of moral law.

If that is the case, THEN we would have to conclude that the observance of the Sabbath is NOT NOT NOT a moral law.
---lee1538 on 5/29/12


\\You keep asking the same old question
---francis on 5/29/12\\

And you keep avoiding and deflecting.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/29/12


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And on just what warrant of Scripture do you make this totally human division into "moral" and other laws, francis?
---Cluny on 5/29/12
Already answered you in a blogs called" MORAL VERSES CEREMONIAL LAW"

Please give BCV that make a distinction between the "moral law" and "ceremonial law," francis.
---Cluny on 3/9/12

Go back to the start of the post see ALL the texts I have posted
---francis on 3/9/12

You keep asking the same old question
---francis on 5/29/12


\\Besides this law, commonly called moral,...\\

And on just what warrant of Scripture do you make this totally human division into "moral" and other laws, francis?

The Bible itself speaks of ONE law: THE LAW, an integral whole. To offend against one of its commandments (such as not sleeping in the same bed with your wife during her period) is to be guilty of breaking it all.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/29/12


Jesus, to me, seems more into calling attention to our two Love Commandments which He Himself says are the greatest commandments > Mark 12:28-34.

So, if we want to rightly represent Jesus, by calling the main attention to what He values the most, why do certain people mainly call attention to lesser commandments?

Why are there not so many blog questions about how to relate in God's love? For example, keeping the Sabbath would include how to relate in God's love on the Sabbath. So, how about questions about how to relate in God's love? Or else, we are not truly keeping the Sabbath )c:
---willie_c: on 5/29/12


This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness, and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

Besides this law, commonly called moral,... The moral law does forever bind all, ...Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[

Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it

These good works, done in obedience to God's commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith
---francis on 5/29/12


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I can understand the Atheist's ignorance on the subject, but Christians should be familiar with these scriptures:

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Joh 1:1,14 In the beginning was the Word ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us

1Co 10:1,4 ... our fathers ... drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. [not Peter]


---jerry6593 on 5/29/12


Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)

God did not write ceremonial laws or laws that that to be learned onto bellievers hearts. Obervance of the Jewish Sabbath is something that would have to be learned.
---lee1538 on 5/29/12


Jerry, I believe that Christians are to keep the moral laws of God. ---trey on 5/28/12

Since the phrase " moral law" does not appear in the bible, can you please define it for me?
---francis on 5/28/12


\\Cluny correct,the 10commanments were made by God, not his son.
---womandisciple on 5/28/12\\

The Son of God IS God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/28/12


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So Jesus wrote the 10 commandments not only before he was born of a virgin but before he was resurrected after he died so he could forgive us because the first two people he made couldn't follow instructions?
---atheist on 5/28/12


Jerry, I believe that Christians are to keep the moral laws of God. We as Christians are no longer under the Law Dispensation, as a gentile my ancestors never were, but now we are under the Grace Dispensation, however, we are still subject to God's moral laws.
Christ boiled them down to this:
Lu10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbour as thyself.
I will leave it at that.
---trey on 5/28/12


Since Jesus is the Author of the Ten Commandments, does He intend that Christians should keep them?
---jerry6593 on 5/28/12
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

yes he does

Revelation 14:12 the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

yes he does


Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

yes he does
---francis on 5/28/12


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