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Who Was Jesus

WAS JESUS AN ATHEIST? That is, did Jesus believe that other gods did not exist, or they did exist but it was wrong to pray to them?

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 ---atheist on 6/1/12
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"1 Timothy 3:16"- LindaH

"Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with "God" as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus "he": (NIV, RSV, NRSV, JB, NJB, REB, NAB [`70], AT, GNB, CBW, and Beck's translation), "he who" (ASV, NASB, NEB, MLB, BBE, Phillips, and Moffatt), "who," or "which."

Even the Douay version has "which was manifested in the flesh." All the best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word ("who") here instead of ("God")."
---scott on 7/2/12


Jesus is God

This is like asking if you believe that you are the only you

(1 Timothy 3:16)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
---LindaH on 7/1/12


Athiest, not possible for Jesus to be or every had been an athiest. He is the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/12


A man says, "There is no gold in China"
Another man says, "I have this nugget, it is from China."
"That is either not gold or it is not from China", proclaims the first.
The gold can be proved from observational science, whereas where it is from can be proved by historical(eyewitness) accounts.
The limited knowledge each man possesses pales in comparison to the amount of knowledge in the universe.
But the second man has a sufficiency to prove the first wrong even if the first does not believe in the validity of the statements made.
Such is the unbeliever to the believer.
---micha9344 on 6/30/12


NO! Jesus was NOT an atheist, He believed in the one true GOD, YHWH or Jehovah, and He knew that any other god was nothing more than a demon deceiving the people. Catholicu, IF you will read through the Holy Bible, you will find NO WHERE in there where the reality of God's existence is "proven, it is merely stated as fact.
---tommy3007 on 6/30/12




"It is incumbent on you to demonstrate that there is a God."
Catholicus
No, you have this all wrong. I do not have to prove what I have.
You have stated that you don't have it and you don't believe that I can have it either, so the proof remains on you. Not to convince me but to prove yourself right.
Since you don't have what I have now, that proves that you never had what I have to begin with.
You may have had a ritual or performance but I have Jesus Christ.
I really dont have to prove anything to anyone. But, it is easier to prove that God exist than it is to say there is no God.
---Elder on 6/29/12


Mark V, that's easy. I believed in God when I wrote that. Now I don't.
---Catholicus on 6/29/12


Catholicus, to me the greatest proof of God's existence is that He tells us He is Creator. And explains His Creation in sober historical prose which fits perfectly with the world we see. Conversely anyone who rejects God has only naturalistic evolution. Various nonBelievers have been asked, and asked to provide proof for evolution. Silence is the only reply.

I accept I believe in God by faith but it is not a blind faith but accords with Romans 1:20 which says God is Creator as seen clearly in the world around us. So clearly that men are "without excuse."

Maybe you are the one to supply proof, or even evidence which can be tested by the 'testable, observable, repeatable scientific method?
---Warwick on 6/29/12


So what proof is there of GOD. I cannot prove that GOD exists. I can show logically that it is possible that GOD exists.

First you need to look up the Rare Earth hypothesis. It points out that life is so improbable as to be nearly impossible. In fact there is proof for it being impossible. Abiogenesis is considered impossible but Evolution is based on abiogeneis. By the way do you know the current theory on how we got the moon? Could you tell me the odds of this event happening?
---Samuelbb7 on 6/29/12


Catholicus, you argue there been no God and that it is not important, then you answer Shira with,

"Hi Shira, moving is always difficult, especially a long move to a new place. God be with you as you prepare for that. May He give you confidence and comfort"

You must believe in God are else you would not be giving that kind of advice. Or were you just joking to entertain yourself?
---Mark_v. on 6/29/12




My new friend, how could I prove to you something you dont believe in regardless if it were true or not? If you dont have a genuine question, then you cant get a real answer, you seem to have all of the answers you want on the matter. Your comments still dont negate my first response based on your absolute statements of you being sure there is no God. I am not asserting there is a God, I live as if there is one and that is not a question, but my reality. Also, are you sure there are no unicorns, I am not, but if there were, they wouldnt appear to affect my eternity as the question of God does yours.
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 6/29/12


Poppa Bear, it is not incumbent on me to demonstrate that there is no God any more than to demonstrate there are no unicorns. It is incumbent on you to demonstrate that there is a God. Logic asks proof of assertions, not proof of denials. Peace to you.
---Catholicus on 6/29/12


All I know for sure is that God did not create anything, as God is only a product of human imagination.
That is a false assumption logically speaking that is. You simply cant know this for sure without being omnipotent/ all knowing.
Adieu
---Poppa_Bear on 6/29/12


Catholicus,again I appreciate your honesty. Such honesty isn't very common.

If you do not believe God created (supernatural process) you must believe it all came about by evolution (natural process). Maybe you believe this by blind faith, not really knowing how it all happened?

I do not believe you have to be scientifically qualified to answer my question about polystratic tree fossils. You may have noticed that Atheist is unwilling to attempt an answer. He expects answers from others but has no answer when he is asked questions. I believe it fair to say he does not answer for 1 of 2 reasons. 1) He hasn't even thought about it, and does not have an answer. 2) He knows that any answer will not support the evolutionary story.
---Warwick on 6/29/12


Warwick, you are making a false assumption. I have no formal training in science. All I know for sure is that God did not create anything, as God is only a product of human imagination. I know you believe God is a real entity, and that's okay with me. People are welcome to their beliefs.
---Catholicus on 6/28/12


Catholicus, as you are not a believer I imagine you most certainly believe in the long-ages evolutionary view of origins. Therefore I would like you to answer my question:

"the long-ages evolutionary story has living trees slowly covered as layer by thin layer of sediment builds up around the tree, over vast periods of time, eventually covering it. How can this happen over long time periods without the tree (which is in the open air, exposed to the full force of nature), not rotting long long before it was covered?"

It is intering to notice Atheist who started this thread, though an ardent evolutionist, cannot answer this question or my other one about natural selection/mutations.

---Warwick on 6/28/12


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Warwick, I just made a couple of offhand comments. Really, the whole subject is of little interest to me. Some people believe in imaginary causes. I don't mind that you do, not at all.
---Catholicus on 6/27/12


Catholicus, the preservation of "bog people" has nothing to do with the question. It seems you do not understand my question. The bodies of the "bog people" have been preserved by chemicals in the bogs, such as tannins. The plant chemicals also protected them from bacteriological or insect attack.

Conversely the long-ages evolutionary story has living trees slowly covered as layer by thin layer of sediment builds up around the tree, over vast periods of time, eventually covering it. How can this happen over long time periods without the tree (which is in the open air, exposed to the full force of nature), not rotting long long before it was covered?

Please do me the favour of answering the question as asked
---Warwick on 6/27/12


When all is said and done, it really doesn't matter how old the earth is, except to a few specialists.
---Catholicus on 6/27/12


Warwick, they found the bodies of those bog people intact who had been covered in sediment for centuries.
---Catholicus on 6/27/12


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Atheist again I ask question number 2. If your evolutionary story is correct you should be able to easily answer this.

In various places in the world there are fossilized tree trunks buried upright in layers of sedimentary rock which evolutionists claim took hundreds of thousands or millions of years to form.

The question for you is: Why did these these trunks not rot to nothing before they were covered?
---Warwick on 6/27/12


Atheist you have not answered question 1 below. Be brave and attempt an answer.

"A question: in evolutionary terms how do you explain the present parlous state of mankind which suffers from c3,600 genetic diseases, caused by various mutations. Evolutionists claim natural selection plus mutations have brought about evolution from the original imagined lifeform to all we see alive today. They say that only mutations which confer survival advantage are retained, thereby, they say, adding new unique specific genetic information to the genome. However the susceptibility to various forms of cancer results from mutations passed on by parents. How do these (and other) life-shortening diseases confer survival advantage?"
---Warwick on 6/27/12


Catholicus, whether wood does or does not rot in an anerobic watery environment is not relevant to the question.

In the long-ages evolutionary story sedimentary rock strata are said to form layer by layer over vast periods of time. But do they? In many places (such as canyons) fossilized tree trunks are exposed in these strata, some coalified. How can the tree not die and rot over the imagined vast periods of time evolutionists claim the sedimentary layers formed, layer by layer?
---Warwick on 6/27/12


Warwick, wood won't rot in an anaerobic environment.
---Catholicus on 6/26/12


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All scripture is given by inspiration of God - 2 Tim 3:16.

Christ is God - John 1:1.

Isa44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God, I know not any.

So we see that Christ, who has existed since before time with the God the Father and the Holy Ghost, declares there in only one God, and it is he!

Yes, I believe in the Trinity.

Yes I believe: 1John5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
---trey on 6/26/12


Atheist enjoys ridiculing those who take God's word as revealed Truth. He feels superior. However when put to the test to defend evolution he fails every time. Jerry asked Atheist to supply proof of evolution c20 times but he couldn't. There are Christians who likewise cannot defend their beliefs but Atheist ridicules these saying they have blind faith. But he is the same!

I have another question for you Atheist. In various places in the world there are fossilized tree trunks buried upright in layers of sedimentary rock which evolutionists claim took hundreds of thousands or millions of years to form.

The question for you is: Why did these these trunks not rot to nothing before they were covered?
---Warwick on 6/26/12


Atheist: Every living thing has a spirit. Every ideology or school of thought also has a spirit controlling it. Every idea that does not agree with what God/Jesus Christ teaches/says/said is under the influence of Satan(including atheism). I humbly invite you to leave the evil camp. Talk to Jesus wherever you are sincerely in faith, HE will connect with you. HE has promised not to reject any that comes to HIM John 6:37.
---Adetunji on 6/26/12


Atheist, you seem to know precious little about the Bible and not much more about evolution.

A question: in evolutionary terms how do you explain the present parlous state of mankind which suffers from c3,600 genetic diseases, caused by various mutations. Evolutionists claim natural selection plus mutations have brought about evolution from the original imagined lifeform to all we see alive today. They say that only mutations which confer survival advantage are retained, thereby, they say, adding new unique specific genetic information to the genome. However the susceptibility to various forms of cancer results from mutations passed on by parents. How do these (and other) life-shortening diseases confer survival advantage?
---Warwick on 6/24/12


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atheist, Accept Christ, and know God: but reject Christ, and be rejected.
---Eloy on 6/23/12


Atheist: If animals were asked to discuss who human-beings are, they will (my opinion) have a lot of negative things to say of men e.g. killers of animals, destroyers of forests, polluters of the air, noise makers etc. Reason: They are not able to understand/appreciate the good purposes of human-b connected to such negatives. Likewise God is much more superior to us (purpose, wisdom) and its difficult for people to appreciate the ONE who multiplied a nations population from 70 persons to Millions through slavery in Egypt with human logic alone. It is no contradiction but GOD is mysterious, HE can be connected by FAITH first.
---Adetunji on 6/20/12


"So what powers do all these other gods have?"
atheist on 6/7/12
They have the power to keep people like you blinded from seeing the real Truth of the Gospel.
---Elder on 6/19/12


Athiest, you do have the harder questions for Christians. The very reason I speak alot about God to others, but they also see a God who is going around in circles just like you do putting out fires. So when I answer them they get upset.
Everything that happens in life, is happening at the exact time God permits it to happen. Nothing is outside of God. If one thing was happening without God permitting or allowing it to happen, that one thing would be more powerful then God. And that is not so. His time is perfect. What He designed is complete before Him. Nothing is going to change. The time to live and the time to die, is already written. And we are told how it will all end. That is His design.
---Mark_V. on 6/9/12


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Our God is ALL powerful not weak.---Adetunji

In that case God should be able to get anything done in any amount of time.


Atheist: We Christians are not polytheists......We know that other gods were created by Satan to distract people from following the true God.....


Adetunji, that's quit a contradiction.
---atheist on 6/8/12


Atheist:#2: Our God is ALL powerful not weak. The fact that Osama B.Laden survived many years before being caught does not mean the American government was weak. Your child's(or apprentice) refusal to follow your instructions sometimes may not mean that you are weak? Does it?
---Adetunji on 6/8/12


Atheist: We Christians are not polytheists. Knowledge & believe are not always equal. We believe, trust, depend & interact with the only true God (Father/Son/H.Spirit). We know that other gods were created by Satan to distract people from following the true God & gain the fellowship that Satan has lost. The power that Satan(other gods) misuses is from God. All powers belong to & comes from GOD even your breath.
---Adetunji on 6/8/12


So what powers do all these other gods have? And is their power strong enough to counteract your god. Maybe that why when people pray for something it doesn't always happen, or why bad thing happen to good people. The effort of many bad gods make your god, true or false, a mere weakling.
---atheist on 6/7/12


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Psa 115:2-5 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where [is] now their God? But our God [is] in the heavens...Their idols [are] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
Psa 135:5 For I know that the LORD [is] great, and [that] our Lord [is] above all gods.
Deu 4:28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
Jud 10:14 Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen, let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.
1Ki 18:24a And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God...
---micha9344 on 6/7/12


"So if you believe that other gods answer prayers then you are a polytheist. So how many gods are there exactly?"
atheist
Ahh... so coy.
Did you see where a man and woman were running to cross a train track. The train was coming. The man saw it and stopped the woman didn't. She ran in front of it and was killed.
Now do you think that I didn't know where you were going with your tripe.
There is only one True God. Why do you think I said that so many times.
Again, read Exod 20 for answers. There are many false gods.
We all know that there is at least one false god at work in your life. They normally posess with many others also. Too bad they can't give you life though, no matter how many you have.
---Elder on 6/7/12


So if you believe that other gods answer prayers then you are a polytheist. So how many gods are there exactly?
---atheist on 6/7/12


Eloy, your answer was right on. Jesus in His divinity was God, that is He said,
" Believe me that I in the Father, and the Father in me:" He was speaking from His human nature. In the divine nature they are the same God.

womandisciple, you are also right because in His humanity, as a human being while on earth, He didn't want any worship, He was always talking about the Father, and was doing the works the Father called Him to do. In His divine nature He was also God.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/12


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"Do these other gods answer prayers?"
atheist
Yes, it appears that they do. They will even testify in a watered down and false way about Christ.
These anti-christ/gods will do anything to keep folks like you and me from seeing Jesus for who He is.
The little gods/anti-christ will even afflict people and then withdraw when some false preacher of theirs prays over them. It make the weak minded think they were healed by some man with special power.
They are very deceptive just to keep you away from Christ!!
---Elder on 6/7/12


atheist: Yes, Satan answers some of the prayers(deceitfully) made to these other gods. How? (1) Satan takes heavy tolls from the supplicants before given them anything. (2)Satan takes away one problem but replaces it with another problem that these people will never be free.
---Adetunji on 6/7/12


womandisciple, Jesus says: "I and Father are one. The person that sees me sees him that sent me. The person that has seen me has seen The Father. Believe me that I in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me because of the very miracles' sake." John 10:30+ 12:45+ 14:9,11.
---Eloy on 6/6/12


Jesus was a Jew as far as through his mother.The title "christian"came later. He wasn't an athiest because he did as his father requested and prayed to his father whom is the only true God. He directed others to only pray to the father.
---womandisciple on 6/6/12


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Adetuni,

Do these other gods answer prayers?
---atheist on 6/6/12


"Elder, How many gods do you believe exist? And do you pray to them all?"
atheist
There are many little gods and spirits of anti-christ. There is a spirit of anti-christ active in your life that makes you believe as you do.
The one true Elohim/God said to not have other gods before Him, Exod 20:3. So that statement proves there are other gods.
We all have a nature to worship something. You worship non-belief. That is the spirit of anti-christ working in you. That spirit will not protect you in the day of judgment.
Only the True God Elohim/Jesus is worthy of our service and praise. Don't learn this too late.
---Elder on 6/6/12


atheist, no, no other gods exist. There is only one God, the creator of heaven and earth and all things therein, whom was manifested in the flesh for all to witness, Jesus Christ conceived from the Holy Ghost.
---Eloy on 6/6/12


Atheist: God/Jesus/Holy Spirit IS(not was) the true GOD. All the others gods part of which you have mentioned were engineered by Satan(Lucifer who rebelled against God & is under his 1st punishment on the earth) through men who wants to think the other way like you. In Yoruba land alone Satan created more than 100 gods. The Lord Jesus Christ knows everything that is existing(believe is not the right word).
---Adetunji on 6/6/12


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I have seen threads where entries have seemingly disappeared, too.

Once in a while, you'll run across a thread with a reply to someone (let's say jane)

Then you scroll down thru the entire thread, and there is no entry from Jane.

Why was someone responding to Jane, if Jane never wrote anything? Or, why is Jane's entry no longer there if it was there before?

I've also seen my own entries disappear on occasion. Not often, but a couple of times, early in the thread.
---James_L on 6/5/12


"For those of jesus christ, if your mind is on jesus christ, talk as if you are talking to the 93% of readers that never blog." aka

Agreed!
---scott on 6/5/12


Warwick, okay, it's between you and the moderator then.
---Catholicus on 6/5/12


"but, for those of jesus christ, if your mind is on jesus christ, talk as if you are talking to the 93% of readers that never blog."
---aka on 6/4/12
Glad you posted this, some may not be aware so many stop by..."Let the words of my(our) mouth, and the meditation of my(our) heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my(our) strength, and my(our) redeemer",and bring you glory Lord.
---chria9396 on 6/5/12


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Catholicus, be that as it may but the thread was closed and the reply button missing for four days before Scott's blog appeared. If this was just once then it could be a simple error. However it has happened many times with Scott and David (ardent JW's) sometimes getting to post 4 blogs after the thread had closed.

The moderator must reply to this or I am free to see bias.

What if there were 75 blogs when the thread was closed, before Scott's blog? If there were not 75 blogs why was it closed?
---Warwick on 6/4/12


atheist, No Jesus was not an atheist, instead he is Theo.
---Eloy on 6/4/12


//However on ... Scott is somehow magically able to post!//

you just noticed. Davidxxxx too. as a said in the past, this is a christia Net and not a christiaN et.

catholicus, if you close on 75 and add one and subtract another, that is 75. it has happened often in the past.

but, for those of jesus christ, if your mind is on jesus christ, talk as if you are talking to the 93% of readers that never blog.
---aka on 6/4/12


Warwick. I counted the posts. There are exactly 75.
---Catholicus on 6/4/12


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Moderator: there is good reason to believe the 'playing field' here is not level.

The thread 'Explain the Triune God' closed 30th May and of course the reply button was removed. However on 4th June Scott is somehow magically able to post! You must explain how this can occur. How can a thread be closed and the reply button removed but Scott can still make a reply?

You must answer this or be fairly accused of bias. You are not above reproach.
---Warwick on 6/4/12


Elder,

How many gods do you believe exist? And do you pray to them all?
---atheist on 6/4/12


Sure other gods exist. For example, Satan is the god of all atheists.
---Elder on 6/3/12


Athiest, you spend all that time learning about mythological gods, when you could have been learning about the real God of the Universe. But of course you are not willing, no one stops you. What you need is for the Spirit to open your eyes to the real God of all creation. Otherwise you will continue to not even try to learn about Him. The other gods bring more interest to you. I don't fault you. You cannot help who you are.
---Mark_V. on 6/3/12


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Atheist,

These gods don't exist, therefore no God exists.

Love your poor reasoning. However, it can be corrected - with some work.

You, like usual, don't deal with the question.

So, where is the evidence I asked for about chemical evolution leading to life?
---Marc on 6/3/12


JESUS IS IMMANUEL, GOD WITH US: Jesus created the heavens and the earth and all things therein, other so-called gods are dead idols and there is zero breath in them.
---Eloy on 6/3/12


Aka, you're probably right about that.
---Catholicus on 6/2/12


Marc,

Thor, like ALL gods, was mythological.

God of Thunder. Thursday is Thorsday.

Son of ODIN and JORD, he's the famous Scandinavian God with Hammer, the burly red-bearded Lord of Thunderstorms. He rides through the storm clouds in a chariot pulled by goats and throws his hammer MJOLLNIR all over the place to create lightning. Thud Thud Clang.

He's not terribly bright and LOKI was always leading him astray. They were firm friends and THOR was always ready to bash his enemies with the business end of his hammer.

Married to SIF, he's also been known to have a fling with the Giantess JARNSAXA, with whom he produced the equally fearsome MAGNI and MODI. His daughter is THRUD.
---atheist on 6/2/12


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catholicus, i think it is more like a spiritual stiff arm than a conversion calling.
---aka on 6/2/12


Atheist,

Mind providing the documented historical evidence for the existence of Thor et al?

BTW, mind clearing up some "minor" matters about the observable, repeatable, experimental scientific evidence that stochastic (i.e. chance, unassisted) chemistry was able to produce life?

Hmm...thought not!
---Marc on 6/2/12


athiest, Jesus in His humanity spoke to the Father, it's written in God's Word. Zeus and thor spoke to no one. They are not even real. And all those gods you mentioned cannot talk, walk, think, or even help you, they are made of stone, rock, metal, wood, and painted as people.
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12


Atheist, are you here to convert us to atheism? If so, why? I have no idea what you are trying to achieve here with us.
---Catholicus on 6/2/12


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Christians were called "atheists" in the first three centuries precisely because they refused to believe or worship the official deities of Rome--or even popular ones.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/2/12


So,

Jesus was actually a polytheist: he believed he was god, but he prayed to another god? Did he also pray to the "Holy Ghost".

Where did Zeus and Thor fit in? Were they gods, or not gods but just imaginary friends that some people prayed to?
---atheist on 6/2/12


Athiest, that was a very dumb question. How can Jesus be an athiest? He is God. You suggest Jesus did not believe in Himself. Nonsense. You are like those unbelievers, if you don't believe in Jesus, then believe the miracles He did. Not even that you believe. Jesus knew people worshipped other gods made of stone, wood are gold. They could not talk, move, are answer prayer. Our God does all and more.
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12


He believes there is no other like God our Father, but there are inferior "gods" of Satan's kingdom. Satan, in the New Testament is called "the god of this age", in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The word, "god", here, is translated from the Greek Bible word "theos". And "theos" is also used to speak of God our Father. The same word can have exact opposite meanings > like how, in English, "love" (1 Timothy 6:10) for money is not the same in meaning as God being "love" (1 John 4:8 & 16). Satan's "gods" are exactly opposite!!

By the way, Jesus is personal with us, not to be worshiped like an object at a distance like ones make Him seem to be, along with their idols.
---willie_c: on 6/2/12


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Jesus was not an Atheist. He is God the Son, and He prayed to God the Father.

I believe He knew of false gods, which is why He gave the commandment, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind."

Hope this makes sense.
---Trish on 6/2/12


No. no. yes.

The first is obvious.

Jesus did believe that other false "gods" or idols or existed.

Yes. Through extrapolation, we only saw Jesus pray to His Father.
---aka on 6/1/12


Atheist, I don't quite understand your question. Could you restate it a little more clearly? Peace to you.
---Catholicus on 6/1/12


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