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What Applies To Christians

What determines if any of the laws found only in the Old Testament are applicable to the Christian?

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 ---lee1538 on 6/6/12
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---Mark_V. on 6/15/12

Well, I must ask you to POST this covenant of works you keep talking about.

In My bible, KJV, from the day Adam sinned, salvation has always been based on the grace of God, and righteousness has always been by faith.

Somehow you have found somethng no one else has ever seen, a covenant of works.

I want to see it too
POST IT!!!
---francis on 6/15/12


francis, you really amaze me. you have been speaking for the Covenant of works for months upon months. Every blog you do that and still don't know the Covenants. People are saved by God grace through faith from the begining. When God covered Adam and Eve with coats, that was not grace. His grace was the Atonement He promise after they sinned. Those who were saved by God were saved by grace through faith, the same way they are saved today. Works never saved anyone. None can keep the whole law, they break one and they have broken all of them. If they could keep the whole law, they would not need Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/12


The concept that the Old Testament no longer applies to the Christian is a NEW GOSPEL - one NEVER taught by Christ. About those of you who preach this new gospel, Paul writes:

Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


---jerry6593 on 6/15/12


The Old Covenant of works of the law
---Mark_V. on 6/14/12

WRONG VERY WRONG

God promised RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH to ADAM and EVE

Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

and to ABRAHAM:
Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD, and he counted it to him for righteousness.

SO NEVER EVER in the bible is works of law a standard for grace or salvation

From Adam it has ALWASYS been righteousness by faith

The old covenant is an agreement that they wold obey all that God said, and in turn Jehovah wold be thier God

This is NOT a covenant fo works, NEVER could man obtain salvation by works
It has always been by grace through faith
---francis on 6/14/12


francis, the Old Covenant of works of the law are very much applicable today to those "who are not in Christ." They are condemned because they have broken the law. Until God saves them by grace, they will remain condemned. Before God they are guilty heading to hell. They need to be freed, and only Jesus Christ can free them. If you are with those who are under the law, you too are condemned. No way out but through Christ Jesus our Lord. Follow the law or follow Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/12




None: Because Christians follow the New Testament Law, not old testament laws.
---Eloy on 6/14/12

Saint Eloy, why then did Jesus specifically tell us to obey many of the Old Testament laws? Several times throughout the New Testament, Jesus quotes specific commands from the Old Testament telling us to keep them. Why would he tell us to obey part of the law and not all of it? If Jesus came to destroy the law, then he would have destoyed all of it. Obviously he did not. If he wants us to obey some of the Old Testament laws, it would reason to believe that he wants us to obey all of them.
---Jed on 6/14/12


None: Because Christians follow the New Testament Law, not old testament laws.
---Eloy on 6/14/12


"What determines if any of the laws found only in the Old Testament are applicable to the Christian?"

Christians are people who follow Jesus! Jesus said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets [The entire Old Testament]: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Your question(s) should therefore be:

What laws of the Old Testament are NOT applicable to the Christian, and WHY?

Some argue that the Law has been fulfilled, but are unable to articulate just how "thou shalt not kill" is fulfilled. I am aware of only two things that can possibly be fulfilled - prophecy and debt obligation. Both were fulfilled at the cross - but nothing else.


---jerry6593 on 6/13/12


Francis, It is sin to pick and choose which parts of the old testament to obey and disregard other parts. If you want to follow the old testament as you keep on insisting, then you have to follow "all" the old testament,
---Eloy on 6/9/12

So, what you saw in the OT was also mentioned by Christ in his preachings. Knowing that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom.1:16), Christ would not lack in teaching us all that we need to follow/observe.
---jonweckl on 6/11/12

Thanks jonwecki for making my point
---francis on 6/11/12


Francis, on your 6/8/12 post about your dog:

Col.3:5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth, FORNICATION,..."

and your 6/9/12 post about Lev.19:4:

Acts17:29 "...we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold...graven by art and man's device."
and again: Col.3:5 also talks of a different kind of idolatry.

Col.3:5 "...which is idolatry..."

So, what you saw in the OT was also mentioned by Christ in his preachings. Knowing that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom.1:16), Christ would not lack in teaching us all that we need to follow/observe.
---jonweckl on 6/11/12




Francis,

You used Lev.18:22. -- Did you not see 1Cor.6:9 "...neither fornicators...nor abusers of themselves with mankind..."
or this: Col.3,5 "mortify therefor your members...fornication..."

and on 6/10 you used Lev.19:4 -- Did you not see Acts17:29 "...that the Godhead is like unto gold...graven by art.." and Col.3:5 (again) talks of a different type of idolatry.

When you defended the 10Cs, you like quoting from the NT. Why is is that now you can't seem to find the commandments/preachings of Jesus (in the NT) that correspond to what you see in the OT?

Knowing that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, Christ would not lack in teaching us all that christians should observe.
---jonweckl on 6/11/12


---Eloy on 6/9/12
Well my friend. If that is your logic, you also need to keep all the old testement laws
The Old Testament says: Leviticus 19:4 Turn ye not unto idols,

Remember all the other nations had idols as gods, only Israel had the true unseen God

So if you choose not to accept idols which the old testament commands, then you must go by all old testament laws, based on your faulty logic.

I will repaet for those who did not know. ALL laws having to do with shedding of blood are obilished by the perpetual shed blood of Jesus

It is ONLY these blod shedding laws that do not have to be kept by those who accept the blood of Jesus
---francis on 6/10/12


Francis, It is sin to pick and choose which parts of the old testament to obey and disregard other parts. If you want to follow the old testament as you keep on insisting, then you have to follow "all" the old testament, even as you implied. Now you want to change and say, no, just some parts apply and others parts no longer do. So which is it Francis? "all" is required to be followed as you first said? or "some" as you are now saying? Do you see the futility of your nonstandardizing the Law? For this reason Christ said "Take up your cross and Follow me. Not, follow the old testament, but follow me, and not obey the old testament, but obey my commandments.
---Eloy on 6/9/12


so much for the misinterpretations of...
Mal 3:6a For I [am] the LORD, I change not,
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Are you telling us that there are commands that only apllied to Israel?
I wish some people would just make up their minds....
---micha9344 on 6/9/12


start sacrificing your animals,
---Eloy on 6/8/12

Christians go by the bible, knowing that jesus shed his blood for our sin, we no nonger follow any laws which deal with shed blood, we accept the shed blood of Jesus for all our sins
---francis on 6/8/12

laws having to do with shedding of blood for sin or cleansing has been done by Jesus. Christians are now to accept the blood of Jesus by faith.

In times past, we had a sanctuary, which as a schoolmaster taught how the shed blood of Jesus cleansed us from sin, now that Jesus has shed his blood, we no longer need to shed the blood of animals, we accept the shed blood of Jesus
---francis on 6/7/12

1 Cor 5:7
Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
---francis on 6/9/12


Eloy: Your logic is laughable. The New Testament wasn't even written yet when Jesus and the Apostles preached, so how could we have been instructed to follow the NT only? Jesus and the Apostles quoted extensively from the Old Testament, and always with the intent of validating its veracity. If the subsequent writings of the NT differed from the preaching of Jesus and the Apostles, it would be a different gospel. It would seem that YOU are preaching another gospel.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


---jerry6593 on 6/9/12


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Jesus says to live "by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God," in Matthew 4:4. So, every word of scripture is for us to live by. God is able to use every word to somehow feed us for how He has us love. There is His love application for every word (c:
---willie_c: on 6/9/12


Francis, The actual word in this verse is "pasa" which may be translated not only "all", but means "every", "any", "each", or "individual", according to the context of use. This verse points out the good use of current scripture in daily living, and in no way is this verse supporting the abolished old testament, which leaven will leaven the whole soul onto perdition. No where will you find that Christ commands anyone to follow the ministry of death which he has ended through his ministry of life. Your problem is that you reject Jesus Christ, and supplant him with the old testament, that is a life completely devoid of the Holy Spirit and of Jesus.
---Eloy on 6/8/12


If a sinner misapplies dead law and dead scripture to things today, then that one is in sin and subjects themself to the curse. You must rightly divide the word, the old apart from the new- B.C. apart from A.D., and rightly apply the word, else you have satanic teaching and death. Every word? Then Francis, start sacrificing your animals, no? you said "every" word. And start throwing away all of your clothing that has mixed threads? no? you said "every" word. Repent and get right with God, and stop playing with dead things. Francis, Read Galatians in the New Testament please.
---Eloy on 6/8/12


Francis, New Testament please.
---Eloy on 6/8/12
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Are you willing to accept the phrase New testament in the place of " all scripture?"

So that the verse may read 2 Timothy 3:16 THE NEW TESTAMENT is given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

or

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
---francis on 6/8/12


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Francis, New Testament please.
---Eloy on 6/8/12


Only the living New Testament words from Jesus will you desire to obey.
---Eloy on 6/8/12
Jesus never spoke these words:

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

or these word either:

Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

THESE BE THE WORD OF JESUS:
Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Christians go by the bible, knowing that jesus shed his blood for our sin, we no nonger follow any laws which deal with shed blood, we accept the shed blood of Jesus for all our sins
---francis on 6/8/12


BEST GUIDE:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Luke 4:4 That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
---francis on 6/8/12


Francis, After you become a Christian, you will not be tempted to lay down with beasts, nor will you ask yourself, is it ok to lay down with beasts, because none of the myriad of dead old testament rules and regulations will be in you to be concerned about, but Only the living New Testament words from Jesus will you desire to obey.
---Eloy on 6/8/12


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Eloy, unbelievable! You totally and deliberately misquoted scripture and chopped it all up to fit your doctrine! You even replaced the word "old coventant" with "old testament" to try to fit what you said. And you cut out alot of parts of the scriptures to make it say something completely different that what it really says. Those scriptures say nothing about doing away with the old testament or the law. I can't believe you would intentional distort the scriptures like this. Why not just post the scriptures how they really read?
---Jed on 6/8/12


If that law makes you more like Jesus then it still applies. If you can get a tattoo and not become an idol sure. If you like pork ok. Paul said it this way "all things are permissible but not all things are benefitual".
The other category is if Jesus has fullfilled that law for example animal sacrifices and the high priest. Jesus has become our sacrifice and high priest (Hebrews).
---Scott1 on 6/8/12


jed, Jesus tells us: "Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you all will in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." And Jesus told the Pharisee Nicodemus, whom was a leader of the old testament levitical law"Except a person be born again, that one cannot see nor enter into the kingdom of God." "For the Law perfected nothing, but a bringing in of a better hope by which we draw near to God. By so much security, Jesus indeed Parent of a better Testament. Then said he, Here I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second." Hb.7:19,22+ 10:9.
---Eloy on 6/8/12


"the ministry of death, written engraved in stones, which was to be done away: as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that Israel could not look to that which is abolished. But their minds were blinded: for today the same vail is untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament, which is done away in Christ. For there is truly a disannulling of the Commandment going before, for the weakness and unprofitableness of it. For the Law perfected nothing, but a bringing in of a better hope by which we draw near to God. By so much security, Jesus indeed Parent of a better Testament. Then said he, Here I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second." II Cor.3:7,13,14+ Hebrews 7:18,19,22+ 10:9.
---Eloy on 6/8/12


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But any law not found in the New Covenant but is only in the Old Covenant would not be applicable to the Christian walk.
---lee1538 on 6/7/12

Leviticus 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it [is] confusion.

Is my dog safe at your home for a weekend, or should I be worried that becvause this law is not n the new testement books that my dog may be violated by you?
---francis on 6/8/12


Eloy, that is a very flawed doctrine you follow. Please give one scripture that indicates the new testament has anymore authority than the old testament. In fact, I would like to see one scripture that actually divides the two as you do. Please tell me where in the Bible it says what will be included in the old testament and what will be in the new testament and that the old testament is now void. Please, since you made that statement that only the new testament is applicable.
---Jed on 6/8/12


Christians follow and obey the New Testament.
---Eloy on 6/8/12


//laws having to do with shedding of blood for sin or cleansing has been done by Jesus. Christians are now to accept the blood of Jesus by faith.

But any law not found in the New Covenant but is only in the Old Covenant would not be applicable to the Christian walk.

Remember there are civic and ceremonial laws (customs) that did not cover over into the New Covenant.

And then there were laws that Christ fulfilled.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
---lee1538 on 6/7/12


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THE ANSWER IS BLOOD

laws having to do with shedding of blood for sin or cleansing has been done by Jesus. Christians are now to accept the blood of Jesus by faith.

In times past, we had a sanctuary, which as a schoolmaster taught how the shed blood of Jesus cleansed us from sin, now that Jesus has shed his blood, we no longer need to shed the blood of animals, we accept the shed blood of Jesus

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
---francis on 6/7/12


Jesus said if you love The Lord and you love your neighbor, then you have fulfilled all the laws. Everybody needs to learn to love.
---Jed on 6/7/12


Lee: And to whom did Jesus command to 'remember the Sabbath day'?

---
Jerry //If you'll recall, there was a "mixed multitude" of non-Hebrews among the children of Israel. The Sabbath commandment even contains reference to non-Hebrews as "the stranger that is within thy gates".

These 'mixed multitude' were proselytes to Judaism. They became circumcised and were required to observe all the laws of Judaism.

Your confusion lies in the fact that you wrongly try to tie these converts to the nations from which they came. Sorry guy, but the law given at Mt Sinai was NOT NOT to all nations.

Laws given to Israel were not given to other nations, howbeit, moral laws were common among different peoples.
---lee1538 on 6/7/12


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