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Explain Matthew 5:17

The Greek word for FULFIL is PIEROO. It means to COMPLETE, END, or EXPIRE.

In Matthew 5:17, Christ said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfil."

As an individual, what does this mean to you?

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Matthew 5:17 means this, "It is finished. A new commandment I give to you: That you all love one another, as I have loved you, that you all also love one another. For I say to you, Except your righteousness be more plenteous than of scribes and of pharisees, you all will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. I say to you, Care for the enemies of you, bless those cursing you, do well to those hating you, and pray over them that shame you and persecute you. Therefore be you all perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Jn.19:30+13:34+ Mt.5:20,44,48.
---Eloy on 6/21/12


Francis: Do you ever get the feeling that we have stumbled into a room in which all of the intelligence has been vacuumed out?
---jerry6593 on 6/21/12

sometimes
Most of them are jusrt deveived
and very few of them are taught well
---francis on 6/21/12


Francis: Do you ever get the feeling that we have stumbled into a room in which all of the intelligence has been vacuumed out? We ask questions and post scriptures, but they are ignored. They offer scriptures that are either irrelevant or prove the opposite of their point. It seems to be an impossible task to reason with such, but one that must be done nonetheless. I commend you for your tenacity in this war with error.


---jerry6593 on 6/21/12


Matthew 26:2 Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified//
For what reason?
---michael_e on 6/20/12
Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for THE REMISSIONS OF SIN.
---FRANCIS on 6/20/12


//Matthew 26:2 Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified//
For what reason?
---michael_e on 6/20/12




We would search in vain for a clear presentation of the preaching of the cross in the ministry of Jesus and the disciples in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John
But it is very plain in 1Cor 15:1-4
---michael_e on 6/19/12

are you saying that the text I gave are just not clear?

try this: Matthew 26:2 Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
---francis on 6/20/12


//But what say ye aboutthese texts:John 12:32 Luke 9:22 Matthew 20:28//

We would search in vain for a clear presentation of the preaching of the cross in the ministry of Jesus and the disciples in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John
But it is very plain in 1Cor 15:1-4
---michael_e on 6/19/12


Jesus didn't preach his redemptive work on the cross for salvation during his ministry on earth.
---michael_e on 6/19/12

Maybe I missunderstand you. But what say ye aboutthese texts:
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.


Luke 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many
---francis on 6/19/12


Jesus didn't preach his redemptive work on the cross for salvation during his ministry on earth. Instead, Jesus taught the gospel of the coming kingdom (Mark 1:14-15).

This gospel consisted of repentance from sin, doing the commandments, and seeking first the kingdom (Matt 5:19, 6:33). these ideas are good and Biblical ideas, but none of them include faith in the redemptive work of Christ on the cross.
---michael_e on 6/19/12


michael e:

The concept that the Old Testament no longer applies to the Christian is a NEW GOSPEL - one NEVER taught by Christ. Paul wrote:

Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Even the two great Laws of Love you mentioned are quotes from the Old Testament!
---jerry6593 on 6/19/12




francis, what you don't want to grasp is that you cannot stand before God with your own works. People are at enmity against God, separated from Him because of our sin. God does not permit us to stand before Him without Christ. God allowed that with Adam before He sinned. After sinning the covenant of grace came into been. And the only way man could come to God is by His Son because we are all sinners. And only His righteousness allows us to come to God. All your righteous works will not allow you to come before God. Only the Works of Christ are exceptable.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/12


jerry
matt 22 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

"are you going to kill him, of course not"
If you can't handle these two commandments, why waste your time with 600
---michael_e on 6/18/12


This is clearly a question about the law, and what does it mean that christ fulfill the law.

the person who has intelligence: capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity, aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc. will answer this question in terms of what it means that jesus fulfilled the law, and how it relates to us

The result of accepting the death of Jesus for our death, is being PARTAKERS of the divine nature, which empowers us to obey God and stop living in sin ( SANCTIFIATION: righteousness by faith, Imparted righteousness)
---francis on 6/14/12
---francis on 6/18/12


Francis said: "I am only appropriatly answering the blog question. It asked about the law I answer about the law"

Francis. Most here on CN would agree, you obsessively push the law here, and little on Christ.
Mark_V is correct saying, "you speak for the law, and hardly ever speak for what Christ has done in your life"

This blog addresses what scripture CLEARLY says.
Christ is the END OF THE LAW, Rom 10:4
We Christians differ from Francis in that we seek to "be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith" Phil 3:9

But for Francis, it's all about the LAW (which ENDED).
---Haz27 on 6/17/12


Mark_V said to Francis: "you speak for the law, and hardly ever speak for what Christ has done in your life.
Very TRUE!
Francis speaks little of Christ our Savior. His obsession is with the law instead.
---Haz27 on 6/17/12

You do realise that I am only appropriatly answering the blog question. It asked about the law I answer about the law
---francis on 6/17/12


intelligence capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity, aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

Your posts are biblically lacking in these basic things
---francis on 6/17/12


Mark_V said to Francis: "you speak for the law, and hardly ever speak for what Christ has done in your life. No one but Christ has kept the whole law, the reason for our need of Jesus Christ who has kept it for us. Give glory to God, and stop giving glory to what man must do."

Very TRUE!
Francis speaks little of Christ our Savior. His obsession is with the law instead.

Francis asks if he keeps the 10C is he under the law? BUT, he can't even keep the 10C himself. And he even claims those who disobey the 10C face death, just like under the law.
Maybe Jesus is a stumbling stone for Francis like with Israel.
Christ is the END of the law, Rom 10:4
It's UNBELIEF that prevents people entering into God's rest.
---Haz27 on 6/17/12


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You have given evidence that you speak for the law,
---Mark_V. on 6/17/12

THANKS:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Rev 12:1 the remnant.. keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 The saints: they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

You do realise that I am only appropriatly answering the blog question. It asked about the law I answer about the law

But you still did not answer my question:
If I keep the ten commandments I am under the law ?
---francis on 6/17/12


francis, you said to me,

"So If I keep the ten commandments I am under the law, is that what you are suggesting?"

francis, the law is not only the Ten Commandments. It is all the Laws of God. Jesus defined what adultery is, "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." What the Ten Commandments stated change for those who are in Christ. You have given evidence that you speak for the law, and hardly ever speak for what Christ has done in your life. No one but Christ has kept the whole law, the reason for our need of Jesus Christ who has kept it for us. Give glory to God, and stop giving glory to what man must do.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/12


intelligence capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity, aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

Because you posts are biblically lacking in these basic things I must put you on hold.

BYE
---francis on 6/16/12


Francis, you desire to be under the law of sin and death (ministry of Death/Condemnation).
Gal 2:18 says this makes you a TRANSGRESSOR (sinner).

Your condemning yourself. Heb 10:26 refers to the likes of you.
"For if we sin (1John 3:4,Gal 2:18) wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth (Christ), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,..."

Rom6:16 "whether of sin (being under the law,thus making yourself a transgressor, Gal 2:18, and not submitting to the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3) unto death, or of obedience (believe on Jesus)unto righteousness?

Francis, your lukewarm works+grace doctrine results in rejection by God, Rev 3:16.
---Haz27 on 6/16/12


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Your doctrine is obedience to the law, and failure to obey means DEATH.

---Haz27 on 6/15/12

LACKS INTELLIGENCE, shows that you do not yet understand the scriptures or what it means to be " under the law" or what it means to have "righteousness by faith."
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death,

Romans 6:16 whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

ALL OF THESE ARE NT TEACHING
---francis on 6/16/12


Lee: "Physical circumcision for instance like the OT Sabbath belonged ONLY to the Old Covenant."

If that were true, then you should be able to find a scripture to justify it. But you can't. The only scriptures that mention the New Covenant are quotes from the Old Testament, and they only mention The Law being placed in our hearts. No mention of circumcision or the Sabbath is ever made in conjunction with the New Covenant!

Why don't you take my advice and listen only to Jesus for awhile, as Paul seems to confuse you.


---jerry6593 on 6/16/12


michael e: "are you going to kill him, of course not"

Then you are contending that I can fulfill the Ten Commandment Law by myself? After all, I've never killed anyone either. If that were true, then we wouldn't need a savior at all! We'd just "save" ourselves. We'd then have salvation by our own works.

It is a fact that some murderers claim that they "loved" their victims. (Ever hear of euthanasia?) It is also a fact that many have loved the persons with whom they had adulterous affairs. Did all this "love" fulfill the law? I don't think so! Only the sacrifice of Christ can fulfill the law.


---jerry6593 on 6/16/12


Francis. Your doctrine is obedience to the law, and failure to obey means unsaved/DEATH.

And what does scripture say about law of sin and death?

Rom7:10"the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring DEATH"
Rom7:13"sin, that it might appear sin, was producing DEATH in me through what is good"
Rom6:23 For the wages of sin is DEATH

It's the SAME doctrine! The ministry of DEATH/Condemnation

For you proof of righteousness is obedience to the law (imparted righteousness), which you yourself fail at. Remember, unless your righteousness exceeds that of Pharisees you cannot enter His Kingdom.

BUT, a Christian's righteousness is WITHOUT THE LAW. It's by FAITH instead, Rom 3:20-22.
---Haz27 on 6/15/12


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Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death

"The standard of righteousness is SINLESS LIVING ( complete obedience to the law of God)"
---Haz27 on 6/15/12

Ok These are my posts, now what you have to do is show that these posts show that I am under the law, and then show why you dissagree with them

Are you saying that the wages of sin is NOT Death, and that the standard of righteousness is perfect obedience to Gods laws sinless living?




---lee1538 on 6/15/12
Well you just do not understand the difference between circumcision and the sabbath. Now is time to ask someone who does.
You took a guess it was dead wrong: seeing that in the new earth we continue to have sabbath
---francis on 6/15/12


Francis asked:"post QUOTES FROM ME to show me how I continue under the law"

Here's a couple:

"What was the punishment for breaking one of these commandments?
Francis are you still alive?
---michael_e on 6/15/12
Francis replies: "Not was, what IS the punishment:
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
That has NOT changed"
BLOG: Explain 1Cor 15:56

"The standard of righteousness is SINLESS LIVING ( complete obedience to the law of God)"
BLOG: Adam And Eve Had No Faith

I can post more. Francis's doctrine is the law of sin and death. The old ministry of Death/Condemnation which has ENDED.
---Haz27 on 6/15/12


Jerry //Exactly which laws of the Old Testament are NOT applicable to the Christian, and WHY?

Physical circumcision for instance like the OT Sabbath belonged ONLY to the Old Covenant.

A covenant is an agreement between parties and like a last will and testament become obsolete when replaced by a new one.

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

So sorry Jerry but the Sabbath is a law found only in a covenant that became OBSOLETE.
---lee1538 on 6/15/12


Everywhere you go you keep asking the same questions. People here have thrown the whole Bible at you, and yet you want to continue under the law.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/12

So If I keep the ten commandments I am under the law, is that what you are suggesting?

IF not, tell me why you suggest that I continue under the law.

post QUOTES FROM ME to show me how I continue under the law
---francis on 6/15/12


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//Just how is "thou shalt not kill" fulfilled?//
If you love God and you love your neighbor as yourself, are you going to kill him, of course not
---michael_e on 6/15/12


francis, he is under the law if he is not in Christ. If he is in Christ he is not under the law. Everywhere you go you keep asking the same questions. People here have thrown the whole Bible at you, and yet you want to continue under the law. As I said before, what you do is up to you. You can follow a denomination, or you can follow Christ. No one here will object.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/12


Lee: Your answer lacked specificity.

Exactly which laws of the Old Testament are NOT applicable to the Christian, and WHY?

You seem to argue that "thou shalt not kill" is no longer in force - contrary to Christ's own words ("Think not that I am come to destroy the LAW").

Just how is "thou shalt not kill" fulfilled?

If you are unable to answer these simple questions, then your position is without merit. Paul seems to confuse you. Perhaps you should listen to Jesus alone for awhile until you become grounded.


---jerry6593 on 6/15/12


\\If a christian honours his mother and father...is he then under tha law?\\
---francis on 6/14/12

Maybe, and maybe not. It depends on WHY someone honors their parents.

I honored my parents when they were old, but not because there was a law that demanded it of me, and not to establish righteousness.

If you seek to establish righteousness from the Law, then you are under a curse
---James_L on 6/15/12


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Simple question:
If a christian honours his mother and fat5her, which is the first commandment in the law with promise, is he then under tha law?
---francis on 6/14/12


blogger8980 quoted:
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions,and genealogies,and contentions,and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain.

Very good point.

Titus 3:10,11 continues:
"Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned"

I suspect many of us here debating against those under law do so mostly for sharing the gospel of grace on a public forum for the benefit of others who may be tempted to fall away into works of the law.
---Haz27 on 6/14/12


---Haz27 on 6/14/12

Obeying the law is the RESULT of your salvation.

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


The result of accepting the death of Jesus for our death, is being PARTAKERS of the divine nature, which empowers us to obey God and stop living in sin ( SANCTIFIATION: righteousness by faith, Imparted righteousness)
---francis on 6/14/12


MarkV, I have never said it is okay to brake God's law. The discussion on the other blog was about obedience to earthly government, not God. Now I see why the confusion on the other blog. I was talking about man's laws and you thought I meant God's laws. The rest of what you said I agree with. I think we ought to obey God's laws because he wants us to and he gave them to us to protect us. But salvation no longer depends on keeping God's laws because Jesus has already paid the price for our salvation. But we should still obey them because that is the right thing to do. If we love the Lord we will obey.
---Jed on 6/14/12


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Francis. I do realize you say saved by grace, BUT, then you ADD to grace the doctrine that obeying the law proves one's salvation.

Consider Rom 11:6
"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace, otherwise work is no longer work."

It's GRACE ALONE. Not works of the law as well.

Mixing grace & works is what Rev 3:15,16 speaks against.
"I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."
---Haz27 on 6/14/12


Because the New Covenant is one of the Spirit and not the law.
---lee1538 on 6/14/12

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my LAWS LAWS LAWS LAWS LAWS LAWS LAWS into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Francis on 6/14/12


//What laws of the Old Testament are NOT applicable to the Christian, and WHY?

Because the New Covenant is one of the Spirit and not the law.

2 Cor. 3:7f Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. .... For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Those w/o God's Spirit have only a religious philosophy.
---lee1538 on 6/14/12


Haz27 here is the problem that i think you are having. You may believe that people who keep the law are keeping it as a means to obtain salvation or righteousness, so you constantly post, saying It's either works of law or grace ---Haz27 on 6/13/12. When you understand that no one has ever been saved by keeping the law, and that all salvation is by grace, and that those who keep the law do it out of LOVE, and a deep understanding of what sin has done to God, you will come to the understanding that those who are saved by grace, saved because they could not attone for thier own sins, keep the law not to be saved, but because they Love God, maybe then you tune with change

Why do you honour your father and mother?

---francis on 6/14/12


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What laws of the Old Testament are NOT applicable to the Christian, and WHY?

Some argue that the Law has been fulfilled, but are unable to articulate just how "thou shalt not kill" is fulfilled. I am aware of only two things that can possibly be fulfilled - prophecy and debt obligation. Both were fulfilled at the cross - but nothing else.


---jerry6593 on 6/14/12


Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions,and genealogies,and contentions,and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain.
---blogger8980 on 6/14/12


Jed, you are been hypocritical. On the other blog you had a reason for breaking God's law. For days you talked about it. Here you say,
" I am saying that Jesus never said it is okay to stop obeying God's laws just because he paid the penalty for breaking them."
You are trying to defend both sides.
Then you said,
" You mentioned feeling convicted of sin. How can you sin if there is no law?"
The laws remain. In Christ there is no condemnation for breaking them, but they still exist.
" And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." Believers do break the law and sin.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/12


It's either works of law (death for man) or grace (life in Christ).
---Haz27 on 6/13/12

LOL LOL again no intelligence

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Exodus 20:6 shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments

I see LONG LIFE and MERCY here I do not see death at all.

What you are talking about here is not just another gospel, it is another version of another gospel.

Do you not understand that LIFE IN CHRIST includes obedience to the 10 commandments, by being partakers of the divine nature which enables us to overcome sin in our mortal bodies?
---francis on 6/14/12


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Francis,consider the law.
Rom7:10"the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring DEATH"
Rom7:13"sin, that it might appear sin, was producing DEATH in me through what is good"
Gal 3:10"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the CURSE"

Francis,"YOU who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?...Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the FLESH, and he of the freewoman through promise......But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now" Gal 4:21-29

---Haz27 on 6/14/12


Jed. See Rom 13:10, 1John 3:23 for how Christians are to live.

Regards the LAW (10C) its holy, just and good (Rom 7:12).
And "what the law could NOT do in that it was WEAK through the FLESH, God did by sending His own Son..." Rom 8:3

We needed a savior as the law condemned man to death for transgressions.
Hence, "Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Rom 10:4

It's either works of law (death for man) or grace (life in Christ).
"but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law." Rom 9:31,32



---Haz27 on 6/13/12


Gal 5:1 "do not be entangled again with a YOKE OF BONDAGE" (10C LAW).
---Haz27 on 6/13/12

LOL LOL LOL
I have said it over and over again, you are the most unintellegent blogger here

Are you in bondage if you: honour you father and mother?

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Or are you in bondage for keeping any of the ten commandemnts:
Exodus 20:6 shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Does mercy and long life from God sound like bondage to anyone except Haz27?
---francis on 6/13/12


Micha, why would you suggest now that the ten commandments be a guide for holiness living? Didn't you just say that Jesus did not want us to worry about following them?
---Jed on 6/13/12


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Part 1
jed, We were all unbelievers at one time. But even as sinners, we had an understanding, somewhat of right and wrong, some sense of morality, it is this and creation itself that shows us there must be a Creator and Lawgiver. but then, at some point in life, we were introduced to God's Word, we realized that we have offended a holy (love and justice mixed perfectly) God.
This is where the 10C's come in, our schoolmaster, why we know we need a saviour. So, these laws reveal the sin that has previously been ignored. This is where Christ comes in. Christ is our payment for not only our rebellion and ignorange of the past, but also our mistakes and poor decisions of the present and future, until He returns or we die.
---micha9344 on 6/13/12


Lets see what LAW Francis wrongly calls law of liberty.

James 2:9,10 "you commit sin, and are CONVICTED by the law (10C) as TRANSGRESSORS. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is GUILTY of all.

Gal 2:18 "if I build again those things which I destroyed (10C LAW), I make myself a TRANSGRESSOR.

Gal 5:1 "do not be entangled again with a YOKE OF BONDAGE" (10C LAW).

Rom 8:2 "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the LAW of SIN and DEATH (10C)."
---Haz27 on 6/13/12


Okay Micha, I'm trying to understand. Are you saying then that there is to be no standard for right and wrong via rules, that everyone should just obey whatever they think the spirit may be speaking to them at the time? Then why did God make rules to begin with? If I told you God was telling me to take my neighbor's wife, how would you know if that is true or not? Can you know what God is speaking to me? Shouldn't there be a standard of rules by which you can know right from wrong? Everybody seems to think they are hearing from the Spirit of God, yet they all argue and disagree, so everyone can't be hearing from God. There has to be a way to know for sure right and wrong.
---Jed on 6/13/12


MarkV, you misunderstood. The stop sign thing was an illustration. Jerry was not suggesting that your brother could pay for your sins. He was using the brother paying the ticket as an illustration of Jesus paying for our sins. Also, neither Jerry or I have suggested that salvation is dependent on obedience. I am by no means suggesting works can save. I am saying that Jesus never said it is okay to stop obeying God's laws just because he paid the penalty for breaking them. We do not obey God's laws in order to be saved, but to be obedient children and please the father. You mentioned feeling convicted of sin. How can you sin if there is no law? If Christ has removed God's rules then there is no such thing as sin.
---Jed on 6/13/12


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"Okay micha, if you feel okay with sinning you go ahead and don't bother obeying God.... that's why you've adopted this doctrine that God is okay with disobedience to His commands. Why do you go rob a bank tonight just to make yourself feel better?"-Jed on 6/12/12
--Wow, from my post, you got all of that?...
Where in the Law of Liberty (Love God and my neighbor) do you get disobedience?
That is quite a jump of accusation you have made...
If you need to be restricted with a list of do's and don'ts from a dead law rather than being led by the Spirit unto all righteousness, I'd like you to reconsider.
For there is now no condemnation...
---micha9344 on 6/13/12


Lets see what LAW james is speaking about when he says we shall be judged by THE LAW OF LIBERTY:

James 2:11 Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill.

10 COMMANDMENTS

Why does James call it LAW OF LIBERTY:

Psalms 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts...AndI will delight myself in thy commandments,

Those who OBEY the law and commandments are free

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law

what law points out SIN that we may be judged by

again 10 commandments
---francis on 6/13/12


Jerry, I never heard such nonsense as your illustration, you said:
"Jed: The stop sign is a good illustration. It remains in place after you get a ticket. But if you ask, your older brother may pay the fine for you and FULFIL your obligation to The Law!"

You are not in purgatory, no one can pay your fine but Christ. When someone is in Christ, there is no more condemnation of any law. You become a new creation, and your will, will be to honor God. And when you don't you are convicted of sin, and ask God to forgive you, not for salvation but because you are sorry you sinned against Him. You suggest the death of Christ on the Cross was not good enough to save you, that it needs your works for Christ to save you.
---Mark_v. on 6/13/12


Francis & Jed.
micha9344 got it right.

Gal 5:1 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty (grace) by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage (law).

We see this in James 2:10,11 "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in ONE point, he is guilty of all....So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."

Francis is under the law (bondage) and guilty of ALL of it. "He is a hearer of the word, and not a doer". He beholds himself in a mirror, and goes his way, and straightaway forgets what manner of man he was, James 1:25

Christians are in liberty (grace). Our righteousness is in Christ.
---Haz27 on 6/12/12


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Okay micha, if you feel okay with sinning you go ahead and don't bother obeying God. I think He would be more pleased if we try to do what He said, so that's what I'm going to do. You're going to do whatever you want anyways, that's why you've adopted this doctrine that God is okay with disobedience to His commands. Why do you go rob a bank tonight just to make yourself feel better?
---Jed on 6/12/12


Do a bible search for the word blood and you will see the importance of the blood sacrifice.
---Jed on 6/12/12

I suggest that you read the Word, not merely search it.

Heb 9:16 "For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it"

Without the death of Jesus, you are still in your sins and must fulfill the Law under the old covenant.

But the death of Jesus brought us the new covenant. He gave us life everlasting, as a gift under the new covenant.

So you see, it was only death not blood that has brought us eternal life under the new covenant.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/12/12


The Law of Liberty
---micha9344 on 6/12/12
Actually the law of liberty is the ten commandments.

Psalms 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts... And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,
---francis on 6/12/12


"..All of God's laws were designed to help us.."-Jed on 6/12/12
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
One cannot, as some here have shown, quote the 10C's without using a word that relates to sin (law of sin) and the punishment is death (law of sin and death).
Whereas The Law of Liberty and Life that sets us free from the law of sin and death, as stated by the 2 greatest commandments, is the one written in the believer's heart
Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
---micha9344 on 6/12/12


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Mark Eaton, stop playing games with words. Bood sacrafice and death are the same thing. It was the blood offering that was required in the old testament. The blood was always required to be sprinkled on the burnt offering to cover the sins. It was all about the blood, not merely the death of the animal. Do a bible search for the word blood and you will see the importance of the blood sacrifice.

Jerry already said that Jesus' death fulfilled the law and paid the payment for our sins. That does not mean God wants us to ignore his laws now. All of God's laws were designed to help us. If you follow God's laws you will prosper, that what they were designed to do.
---Jed on 6/12/12


So, the meaning of fulfil is not to end or destroy the law, but rather to complete its requirement for a blood sacrifice.
---jerry6593 on 6/9/12

No. No. No.

Blood sacrifice is not requirement of the Law. DEATH is. Jesus came to satisfy the requirement of the Law for all who believe on Him (John 1:12). Therefore, the Law no longer has power over the believer. Neither does death. They have been satisfied by Jesus.

Therefore, why would believers want to "try" to satisfy the Law when it no longer has power over them?
---Mark_Eaton on 6/12/12


micha9344 on 6/9/12 + 6/10/12, explained it all. Christ is the END of the law.

Scripture warns against being under the law establishing righteousness. Even today we still see some professing Christians being just like the foolish Galatians going under the law. They make themselves transgressors/sinners (Gal 2:18) and frustrate the grace of God.
---Haz27 on 6/12/12


Yes, jerry, exactly. Jesus has already paid our tickets, but he didn't remove the stop sign or tell us to ignore the stop sign. In fact, he specifically tells us to obey the stop sign, but if we do mess up and run a stop sign, all we have to do is ask and he will pay the ticket. But that doesn't mean we can just ignore the stop signs now.
---Jed on 6/11/12


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Jed: The stop sign is a good illustration. It remains in place after you get a ticket. But if you ask, your older brother may pay the fine for you and FULFIL your obligation to The Law! This concept is not all that difficult, but some here will fight to the death to retain their "right" to continue in their pet sins.


---jerry6593 on 6/11/12


Rom 8:1-4 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin, and the strength of sin [is] the law.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
---micha9344 on 6/10/12


If it is the law to stop at all stop signs, and I do that, then I have fulfilled the law. Does that mean that the law is now void and nobody else needs to stop at stop signs? By no means. If Christ came to end the law, then he would not have said "I have not come to destroy the law". Both Jesus and the apostles frequently referenced the old testament laws in affirmation, not condemnation. Jesus, on several occasions, urged people to follow God's laws, not forsake them.
---Jed on 6/10/12


The word fulfill is best understood by exchanging it with the word illuminate.
Continued reading in this section of Matthew illustrates that Jesus was illuminating the commandments.
---earl on 6/10/12


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micha: Pick the correct version of scripture:

Mat 1:21 ... and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their SINS.

Mat 1:21 ... and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from THE LAW.


---jerry6593 on 6/10/12


Matt 1:22 'fulfilled' pointing to Christ
Matt 2:15 same
Matt 2:17+23, 4:14, 8:17, 12:17, 13:35, 21:4, 26:54, 27:9, 27:35. Mark 1:15, 14:49, 15:28. Luke 4:21. John 12:38.
Completed, Accomplished. Ended (Luke 7:1).
One doesn't ask to have the prophesies accomplished, but when it comes to the law it's different.
It all points to Christ, nothing of what we do could get us there...
That is why the law was our schoolmaster (Gal 3:24), why Christ is the end of the law to those who believe (Rom 10:4), and why we now follow Christ through the 2 Royal Laws of Liberty, to which even Christ said hung "all" the law and prophets, not just some of them.
So why should "fulfil" be different in Matt 5:17?
---micha9344 on 6/9/12


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven...Ye have heard that it was said.. Thou shalt not kill,

In context with the phrase " thou shall not kill" Christ is talking about not doing away with the ten commandments, but rather fulfilling the phropecies concerning Himself
---francis on 6/9/12


Not to defame the great scholar Rob or anything, but actually the word is not pieroo in Greek, but (according to Strong's):

pleroo

From G4134, to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), etc.

G4134:

pleres

replete, or covered over, by analogy complete: - full.

So, the meaning of fulfil is not to end or destroy the law, but rather to complete its requirement for a blood sacrifice.

---jerry6593 on 6/9/12


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"As an individual, what does this mean to you?" That "it is finished".Jesus came as the Father's fulfillment of the law, as foretold by the prophets. To finish the task, and intent, initiated through them both. Salvation through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus was the consumation of both the Law, and prophets. For the Law was man's "schoolmaster" to bring him to Christ, the prophets foretold of Him, and gave man the direction. As it is written, Christ is the 'end'- (termination, or that by which a thing is finished, as concerning the aim or purpose) - of the law, for righteousness to everyone who believes. Gal3:24>Rom10:4
---joseph on 6/9/12


It means that Christ is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets, and therefore the law of dead works, including Sabbath observance, has passed away.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/8/12


Jesus fulfills the Law in Himself, in His words and in His actions by performing God's will in all its fullness, transgressing none of the precepts of the Law. He fulfills the Prophets by both being and carrying out what they foretold.
---Catholicus on 6/8/12


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