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What Did Paul Teach

What exactly (please be specific...like make a list) did Paul teach that some here think is against what Christ taught?

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 ---Marie on 6/9/12
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Barb, I have posted this previously, but here it is again for you. Jesus says of Paul, "He is a chosen vessel to me, to bear my name in front of the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel: For I will show him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake." Acts 9:15,16. Paul was a Holy Apostle from Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:1, and Saint Paul wrote 2/5 (that is almost half) of the whole New Testament of the Holy Bible. So if Paul taught a different gospel than Jesus, then Jesus Christ and myself are both liars.
---Eloy on 6/14/12


Mark_V.: "The Churches who were once separate and independent from each other were given only two positions of leadership, Pastors and deacons."

The early church was only separate by location, but they were one in thought. If I started ten churches in the United States and asked you to go to a certain church, you would ask, "Which church?" I would the reply, "The church of Atlanta." The definition of church is greatly different today than it was 2000 years ago. There was only one church back then, but we have many today each having thier own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible.
---Steveng on 6/14/12


Mark V, I appreciate the effort but I am looking for something outside of Paul for proof. Paul can tell us that Jesus spoke to him and Luke can write it down but does that prove anything?

Who is Ananias? I know he is mentioned in Acts 9 as a disciple and in Acts 12 as a devout Jew but is he mentioned anywhere else? I guess I can check it out for myself. Thanks.
---barb on 6/14/12


Mark_V.: "The Pastor was called "bishop" both pastor and deacons to be selected by the Church"

All five ministries in Ephesians 4:11, not just three as you say, are chosen by God. All five ministries, not just three as you say, are needed for the maturing of the church - the body of believers, not a denomination or a building. Other gifts are shown in 1 Corinthieans 12:28. Jesus himself held each of the ministries.

In Ephsians 3:4-5, Paul states that the mystery, unknown to generations in the past, is now revealed by the Spirit of God's holy apostles and prophets. When Jesus ascended, he gave these gifts/ministries to men until the end of time. Ephesians 4:8, 11-13. He gave these gifts AFTER he ascended.
---Steveng on 6/14/12


Mark V., If you doubt that the ministires of the prophets are no longer, you will definately be gloating over the death of the last two prophets revealed in Revelation. You are the one of many christians who will celebrate the death of these last two prophets from God by sending each other gifts because they did not conform to your worldly denominational church doctrines. You will wrongly believe that these two prophets sent by God are demons who have been tormenting those who lived on the earth including christians who say they are christians, but are not.
---Steveng on 6/14/12




Your worldly denominational churches are improperly structured. Scripture points out that the ministries are apostles, prphets, evangelists, pastors and teachers in that order. All these ministries are needed to bring the church to maturity. Man's fear, wrong interpretations and prejudices deprive denominational churches the two foundations that the Lord himself place in the world causing the church to be improperly balanced. Pastors, evangelists and teachers alone cannot bring the church to maturity. That's why Jesus gave us all five ministries for that purpose. According to the bible, what are the duties of the apostles, of the prophets that Jesus gave after his ascention?
---Steveng on 6/14/12


The OT prophets had disciples. Jesus had twelve of them. Jesus' twelve disciples, now being called apostles, had many disciples of their own. Is your faith strong enough to become an apostle? Are you ready to perform miracles greater than Jesus as Jesus said? Or is your faith weak and your mind doubtful of the calling. Will you forever be just a christian by name or is your faith strong enough to be not only baptised with water, but be baptised by the Holy Ghost? Or will fear keep you from your calling?

Has there ever been a time when you saw a sick person and thought to yourself, "if I only had faith enough to heal that person."? But your thought became full of fear and doubt?
---Steveng on 6/14/12


sis barb, I gave you the passages before, where Jesus Christ, Lord of heaven and earth spoke to him, and later spoke to Aninias, and told him he was a chosen vessel of His,

"But the Lord said to him, Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before the Gentiles, Kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things He must suffer for my name" (Acts 9: 15,16).

Jesus was speaking, is that not good enough? Jesus was in His divinity. Or are you saying that only when He spoke in His humanity counts? I don't understand your logic.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/12


Eloy, can you prove that Paul is an apostle approved by Jesus Christ? I need evidence from the mouth of Jesus. If you can give it to me I will believe his scriptures as you say.

Maybe you can find something in Revelation...Jesus must have said something like "for by grace you are saved thru faith and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." after He was ressurrected.
---barb on 6/14/12


aka, I mean from sun down Friday until sun down Saturday.
---barb on 6/14/12




Steven, your very wrong concerning what you said:

" The reason most christians debate Paul's writing is because of today's basic tenets that the apostles and the prophets are no longer needed."

I believe in the teaching of Paul, and still believe there is no apostles or prophets today leading any Churches. The Churches who were once separate and independent from each other were given only two positions of leadership, Pastors and deacons. The Pastor was called "bishop" both pastor and deacons to be selected by the Church and to be servants of the Church. Christ was the Head of the Church according to Scripture. Christ been the Author of this religion, organized by the Apostles and to be called the Church.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/12


Barb, Saint Paul was a proven Apostle from Christ, accept his holy scripture.
---Eloy on 6/14/12


Barb,when you say Sabbath , do you mean from Friday sundown to Saturday when the first there stars appear or do you mean a couple of hours on Saturday? i am not arguing about Sabbath...just curious.
---aka on 6/14/12


Barb, how am I offended?

What concerns me is those who feel they can decide what part of God's word they will or will not believe. Does God give us that choice? You appear to reject Paul's writings but his works are the most clear and powerful presentation of the one and only gospel.

I am also concened about those who reinterpret Scripture through changing so called scientific views of man. They destroy God's Truth and lead people away from faith.

But you discount Paul entirely, providing no rational basis for this. Why not submit to the whole word of God? Let us leave our falible opinions out of it.

Either believe what Scripture says or not, in totality The Bible is either Gods' word or it isn't.
---Warwick on 6/14/12


Linda, it is not my opinion but God's Word. It was not until Paul was given his ministry that the Gentiles were included in the promises of God,

"Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-who are called uncircumcision by what is called circumcision made in the flesh by hands that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commomwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ" (Eph. 2:11-13).

From Abram two Acts, 2,000 years, only a few Gentiles knew salvation.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/12


Paul wrote thirteen letters, the first nine were to churches, the next four to persons. Paul revealed the mysteries of God to the church unto the end. The reason most christians debate Paul's writing is because of today's basic tenets that the apostles and the prophets are no longer needed. These two ministries of the five mentioned in Ephesians 4:11 are the ministries that todays denominational churches and christians fear most, but are terribly needed to bring the church to maturity. The great delusion is when christians who think they are christians, but are not because they believe that the prophet and the apostle are no longer needed. Not just three, but all five ministries are needed to bring the church to maturity.
---Steveng on 6/13/12


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Warwick, you told me that Peter referred to Paul as a "beloved brother" and that he called Paul's writings scripture so I thought that you wanted a response from me. I answered you as honestly as I possibly could and I did not mean to offend you with my reply but as I said in my last post, my salvation does NOT depend on two verses that Peter may or may not have written.

As I have said before I follow the words of Jesus Christ and no one else.

Right now I attend a home church and study with a group of folks on the Sabbath. Previously, I attended the Baptist church but I have also done a lot of searching thru other denominations.


---barb on 6/13/12


God sovereignly kept the Gentiles out of the promises.

I thought for a second you were gonna back that up with scripture, but opinions typically lack that

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance GOD WINKED AT, but now commandeth ALL MEN EVERY WHERE to repent:

OF course the Spirit circumcises our hearts, but you refuse to believe you do not get the Spirit of God until you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ! Scripture is very clear on this matter! Idk why you hate that truth so much! God took the first step (and the most important) and He patiently waits for our response because He is not willing that anyone perish!
---LindaH on 6/13/12


Barb it appears you have deleted anything Paul wtote from the NT and now begin to cast doubt upon 2 Peter. If Peter didn't write this then it appears he didn't write the first letter either (2 Peter 3:1) Did the dastardly Paul write it too? What else gets the chop?

Really Barb you are cherry-picking what you believe to support a view not consistent with Scripture.

Please tell us what denomination you attend?
---Warwick on 6/13/12


Linda, before you shoot your mouth off about me, read the Bible. Jesus earthly ministry was for the lost sheep of Israel. Paul's earthly ministry was for the Gentiles. Jesus Christ Himself appointed him. He taught him what to say and do. He had a lot to say that was different because the Gentiles were aliens to the commonweath of Israel and strangers to the promises, they had been without hope and without God. (Eph. 2:11,12). God kept the promises from them for 2,000 years, and until Paul came into the picture, very few Gentiles had been saved by God. Paul was there by appointment of Christ as He told Ananias in (Acts 9:13). God sovereignly kept the Gentiles out of the promises. Even though you say people have free will.
---Mark_V. on 6/13/12


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Scott, when I read Gal 2:6 I hear Paul saying that he did not learn anything from the disciples of Jesus. In other words the disciples of Jesus added nothing to Paul's message.
---barb on 6/13/12


Gal 2:6 //"... conference added nothing to me".//
-Barb
So what does this mean to you that Paul was different and thus the conference did not apply or that Paul was correct and thus did not need to be corrected. The first statement is a misinterpretation.
---Scott1 on 6/13/12


---barb on 6/13/12

Sorry i did misquote Gal 1. But chapter 2 still applies
---Scott1 on 6/13/12


you say, The Father and Jesus are the same God. the bible says, God is spirit. yes, at one point one of those spirits also became a man.
---aka on 6/12/12

Not sure what position you are taking.

Your position orignally was that the Trinity is incorrect. Yet, you seem to agree with it. Matter of fact, in previous posts you described it very accurately.

Do you dislike the word trinity but agree with it in concept?

My opinion is God is a title, like Senator. The Heavenly Father is a distinct entity known by a name we no longer know. He is God. Jesus is His Son, also spirit but also body and also God. The spirit of Jesus is known as the Holy Spirit, who is also Spirit and also God.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/13/12


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Scott, can you give me the scripture that says Paul spent years with the disciples of Jesus? All I can find is this in Gal 1:17-18 where Paul says he spent 15 days with Peter and James and that he saw no other disciples. Did Paul learn anything from Jesus' disciples? Gal 2:6 "But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were it maketh no matter to me, God accepteth no man's person,) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me".
---barb on 6/13/12


//I believe the gospel of Matthew because Matthew was an eyewitness of Jesus Christ.//

Actually, the author of Matthew probably wasn't the Levi of the disciples.
---Rod4Him on 6/13/12


Michael and Warwick, you keep throwing 2nd Peter 3:15-16 at me and I will answer it one more time so listen up. There is credible evidence that Peter did not write those letters. You can look it up and see for yourself. As for me I do not depend on those two verses or believe Paul's teachings on salvation because of them.

Jesus said that His disciples would bare witness to him and that is why I believe Matthew and John. John 15:27. Jesus chose 12 eyewitness apostles, one was lost and that leaves ten to to witness for Him and to witness for one another. No, I cannot show you a scripture that says that Matthew had 10 witness other than what Jesus says in the above verse and John 14:26.
---barb on 6/13/12


This dissing of Saint Paul is foolishness. John says it perfectly, "If any person say, I love God, and hates their brother, that person is a liar: for the one that loves not their brother whom they have seen, how can they love God whom they have not seen? And this commandment we have from him, That the one who loves God, love their brother also." I Jn.4:20,21. The second commandment from God is just as important as the first, namely, the Golden Rule is to Love others as you Love yourself.
---Eloy on 6/13/12


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//Matthew was a disciple chosen by Jesus and he has ten other disciples to testify to his apostleship.//
Barb
Where do the 10 others testify to his apostleship?

Do any of them testify like this?
2Pet 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you,

16 As also in ALL his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
---michael_e on 6/13/12


Barb, the Scriptures you gave regarding Pauls ministry to gentiles in no way contradict a number of other Scriptures such as Mark 15:16 where Jesus "said to them, Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." The whole creation obviously includes the gentiles, and not only Paul. That Paul was sent to the Gentiles does not mean the other disciples were not likewise sent.

You say you do not trust what Paul said regarding His given ministry but give no reason for your rejection. Peter had no such doubt, calling him "our dear brother Paul" and describes Paul's writings as "Scripture."
---Warwick on 6/13/12


//If so then it is because Matthew was a disciple chosen by Jesus and he has ten other disciples to testify to his apostleship.//

Paul spent years with Peter and James (brother of Jesus) before his ministry to the gentiles. If Peter and the others disagreed with Paul I think that they would have specificly mentioned him by name as a false teacher (which they do not). Also please explain how Luke wrote Luke and Acts interviewing Peter, Mary, and others but then quitting to follow a "false teacher" in the same book. If I was a false teacher in Paul's place I would not admit to being wrong like murder of Stephan, thorn in flesh, apology to John Mark in 2 Tim etc.
---Scott1 on 6/13/12


James, did Jesus call Himself, The Way, The Truth and the Life? I follow Jesus and He is the Way. I have no proof to offer you that the early followers of Jesus called themselves The Way. I am sorry I ever said that.

I believe the gospel of Matthew because Matthew was an eyewitness of Jesus Christ.

If you do not agree with me that is fine and you may call me any name you wish but when you call me internally conflicted....well, why in the world would I think you really wanted an answer from the likes of me??
---barb on 6/13/12


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Michael e, not sure I understand your question. Are you asking why I believe the account in Matthew's gospel and not the account in Acts? If so then it is because Matthew was a disciple chosen by Jesus and he has ten other disciples to testify to his apostleship.
---barb on 6/12/12


barb,

why didn't you answer my questions from the other blog about the "Followers of the Way" and the gospel writers ??

Luke used the term, and then he quoted Paul using it. WHO ELSE ???

So why are you comfortable calling yourself a follwer of the Way, if the only two people who ever used the term are false teachers ??

and

How do you know you can believe what is in Matthew's gospel ? Did Matthew even name himself as the writer? Who gave you that info ??

You have to believe somebody besides Jesus' disciples just to know that Jesus' disciples can be trusted.

Where are the writings of "The followers of the Way" ???

Like I said before, you are internally conflicted
---James_L on 6/12/12


//Paul said that Jesus sent him to the Gentiles. I do not believe him//
Barb, This is what Matthew said, knowing he didn't witness this, why would you believe this and not what Paul writes?

Matt 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus
---michael_e on 6/12/12


Warwick, Yes. Paul said that Jesus sent him to the Gentiles. I do not believe him but of course you must make your own choice.

You asked for the verse where Paul said he was sent to the Gentiles and the disciples to the Jews. I have given it before but here it is again. Gal 2:9 "And when James, Cephas and John who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the heathen (Gentiles) and they unto the circumcised (Jews). Also see Gal. 2:7 where Paul says pretty much the same thing.

We have only Paul's word that this ever occurred and as for me I believe Matt 28 where Jesus sent his disciples out to all the nations.
---barb on 6/12/12


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Warwick, oops, when I said that Paul told us that he alone was sent the Gentiles I was wrong because he tells us that Barnabas went with him. I apologize.

Did Paul (thru his follower, Luke who wrote Acts) tell us that he (Paul) had been sent to the Gentiles by Jesus. Yes, that is what the writer says. As for me I do not believe that the spirit that appeared to Paul was Jesus Christ.
---barb on 6/12/12


Leon, A-men. Paul was very astute in showing how "the Law" is contrary to "the Spirit". Most religions have "laws", but how many have the "Spirit of grace" the "Spirit of mercy" the "Spirit of love" the "Spirit of compassion" the "Spirit of patience" the "Spirit of help" the "Spirit of forgiveness"? Which would you prefer for yourself: the law with the full penalty for breaking it? Or, the Spirit with its immunity to the law's sentences? The Law says: "you deserve death, no ifs and no ands and no buts, you get death", But the Spirit says: "you derserve life for choosing Christ, no ifs and no ands and no buts, you get life".
---Eloy on 6/12/12


Jesus...Still a Spirit and a body...Any problem with that? Mark_Eaton none at all. first, i am not trying to be smart when i ask is there a problem. please drop the bravado. i am trying to work through this with you.

you say, The Father and Jesus are the same God. the bible says, God is spirit. yes, at one point one of those spirits also became a man.

i realized that Jesus said that He and the Father are one. you are talking one entity, I am talking unity. Your wife and you are one, but is she typing as you type? you are two different beings that make up one entity. my son, if he did everything that i do and say, he can say,"I am one [in agreement and action] with my father." may i continue?
---aka on 6/12/12


And Paul touched many other subjects that Jesus did not have time to say while here in His humanity

This statement was so asinine it made me laugh. I really hope you weren't serious. This is coming from the same man who says God is completely sovereign and man has no free will. Did man cut Gods time short on Earth so that He couldn' t cover all the bases?

If only God had planned out his time on earth a little better, He could have covered everything necessary.....sigh....
---LindaH on 6/12/12


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Do not be afraid of man for he can only kill the body, but be afraid of God for he can kill the body and the soul.
---Steveng on 6/12/12


only one was a person for a very brief period of time. The three are spirit. any problem there?
---aka on 6/12/12

Yes.

Our physical body is temporal and only "houses" the real person.

Jesus displayed His uncorruptable body to His disciples after the resuurection.

Therefore, Jesus is still a person who HAS a perfected body. Still a Spirit and a body.

Any problem with that?
---Mark_Eaton on 6/12/12


Barb, As Eloy's quote clearly shows none less than Jesus appointed Paul to be an apostle to the Gentiles. Correct? Therefore to say Paul was 'on another Scriptural road' is not true. It shows what you have written "Paul would have us believe that he was sent to the Gentiles" its totally wrong, by the testimony of our Lord and Saviour Jesus.

But again you appear to believe Paul considered himself to be the only apostle to the gentiles. Where does he say that?
---Warwick on 6/12/12


Contrary to what the legalist & cultist (all the discontent, unrepentant, unregenerated grumblers) here believe, Paul unashamedly taught no less than the uncompromised gospel of Jesus Christ. That is why Paul's Holy Spirit led teachings are in the Bible. GOD PUT THEM THERE!!!
---Leon on 6/12/12


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Hi, Marie (c: Paul has written that "the husband is head of the wife," in Ephesians 5:23. And ones take this to mean that Paul is into men being superior to women. But if you are in love, your position does not make you more or less than someone else, because the love is equal. We all have God's very own love (Romans 5:5). So, one being over another does not make any real difference . . . except to ones who do not know God's love.

Also, consider how a human head so needs and depends on and trusts its body! Paul has God's love meaning for what Paul gives us, not how ones perverted from love can understand and see things!!
---willie_c: on 6/12/12


It's evident from 1 Cor 15:1-4 that the gospel of our salvation includes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus as payment for our sins. This truth is the cornerstone of Christianity. Yet no where in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John did the Twelve Apostles understand the preaching of the cross.

The twelve were ignorant of Jesus death, burial, and resurrection

Matt 16:21-22 Jesus first began to tell them of his death and yet Peter tried to prevent it.
Mark 8:31-32 Another account of Peter rebuking the Lord for speaking about his death.
Mark 9:31-32 After hearing about the death and resurrection of Jesus the disciples understood not and were afraid to ask him
---michael_e on 6/12/12


Mark, as i said 125 is not enough. if someone needs more, they are attacked in the meantime.

only one was a person for a very brief period of time. The three are spirit. any problem there?
---aka on 6/12/12


not trying to discredit something that has credit only to judeo-christians. the trinity is God of the OT (Yahweh) that is the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit in the NT.
---aka on 6/10/12

Huh?

Your first explanation made no sense.

If Jesus prayed to His Father and sent the "comforter" later, then why are they not three separate persons?

Jesus said "I and the Father are one". Either that was heresy or it was correct. They are both God and both separate.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/12/12


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Paul taught the immortality of the soul
---1st_cliff on 6/11/12

I think that this is your interpretation of this text

I do not see " absent from th ebody and present with the lord" as being immortal soul, nor do I understand it to mean that we go to heaven as soon as we die.

In the context in which it is writen I understand it to mean the ability of human beings to look past their current moans and graoning of bodily pain, to focus on The Lord.

what is important is that you do what pleases God even if you are unable to see past you present infirmities.
---francis on 6/12/12


Barb, if I understand you correctly you believe Paul said He alone was sent to the gentiles. Where does Paul say this?
---Warwick on 6/12/12


barb, your arguments are not legit. How can Paul teach the exact same things Jesus taught? Impossible. Jesus had a purpose and so did Paul. 1Cliff, is wrong. Jesus touched many subjects that Paul did not. And Paul touched many other subjects that Jesus did not have time to say while here in His humanity. Each individual person in Scripture had a perticular purpose asigned by God. The gospel is still the same. Jesus Christ came and died for us in order that we could have eternal life and is now risen. And all that believe in Him, with true faith, will be forgiven, become His children and be granted eternal life.
---Mark_V. on 6/12/12


Try again ?Cluny?
It must be like the fundamentalists of today that the pharisees believed in the "resurrection of the body" (this phrase is not found in scripture) but as any good Bible Dictionary will tell you that ,as a sect, the believed in the immortality of the human soul!

Nana,No ,but they will be alive when God resurrects them!

Warwick,The dead are ONLY responsive to God's voice!
---1st_cliff on 6/12/12


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Michael e, you take the words of Paul and use them to negate everything that Jesus taught.

Do I think that those words that you put in RED from Paul are the words of Jesus Christ...absolutely not. And you have just put words into the mouth of God that He did NOT say and that my friend is blasphemy.
---barb on 6/12/12


michael e, yes I believe that the Holy Spirit helped the disciples to remember every word that Jesus Christ spoke. John 14:26, "But the Comkforter which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you ALL things and BRING ALL THINGS TO YOUR REMEMBRANCE WHATSOEVER I HAVE SAID UNTO YOU." Jesus was talking to His disciples here. Now go ahead and tell me I am wrong.
---barb on 6/12/12


//Incidentally, you don't actually think the writers, wrote from memory do you?//

I'm probably not understanding what you are suggesting. Are you suggesting that they were dictaphones for God?

We know that Luke researched for his material.
---Rod4Him on 6/12/12


//I guess it is Paul's word against the eyewitness disciples.//
No barb it's your thoughts against Gods Word.
Incidentally, you don't actually think the writers, wrote from memory do you?
---michael_e on 6/11/12


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Please read the Holy Bible. Paul was a Holy Apostle from Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:1, and Saint Paul wrote 2/5 (that is almost half) of the whole New Testament of the Holy Bible. So if Paul taught a different gospel than Jesus, then Jesus Christ and myself are both liars. My Jesus says of Paul, "He is a chosen vessel to me, to bear my name in front of the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel: For I will show him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake." Acts 9:15,16.
---Eloy on 6/11/12


Michael e, yes Jesus sent His disciples out in Matt 10:5-6 to only the lost sheep of Israel. Then after His ressurrection in Matt 28:18-20 and after the Jews had rejected Him as their Messiah He sent the remaining 11 out to ALL Nations (Gentiles).

Paul would have us believe that he was sent to the Gentiles and the disciples of Jesus to the Jews but that is not what is recorded in Matthew 28. I guess it is Paul's word against the eyewitness disciples.

Jesus tells His disciples in John 15:27 "And you also shall bare witness, because you have been with me from the beginning."
---barb on 6/11/12


Most of you who teach that Paul's teaching was different than Jesus interprets scriptures using worldly knowledge instead of spiritual wisdom. Jesus, the apostles and all the godly people from the beginning taught two things: the gospel (in which most of you have no clue) and how to get there. Most of you have the knowledge of God, but deny his power. You have stopped at water baptism, but did not go further to be baptised in the Holy Spirit. This is the reason why the world does not believe because there are no miracles happening in todays' world.
---Steveng on 6/11/12


Matthew 22:29_32 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

It would seem that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive, 1st cliff?
---Nana on 6/11/12


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\\Paul taught the immortality of the soul (as did all Pharisees) Absent from the body,in the body out of the body etc. all intimating that the soul is immortal!
Jesus taught death and resurrection,\\

So did St. Paul. 1 Cor 15.

And as we know from Acts's account of St. Paul's trial before the Sanhedrin, the Pharisees DID believe in Resurrection.

So try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/11/12


Cliff, as you say Jesus said "Do not be amazed at this for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out" Jn.5.28."

This must mean the dead can hear God's voice. So they are responsive.

Remember Jesus stood at Lazarus' tomb and called him out, and out he came, summoned by God the Son John 11:43. Maybe it as Jesus has said that the dead are just sleeping awaiting God's voice. To us they are gone but to Him who can call them back to life, they are just sleeping.

Remember how the Lord called even dry bones back to life? Ezekiel 37:1-14.
---Warwick on 6/11/12


Paul and Jesus did not preach the same thing!
Paul taught the immortality of the soul (as did all Pharisees) Absent from the body,in the body out of the body etc. all intimating that the soul is immortal!
Jesus taught death and resurrection,,IE "Do not be amazed at this for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out" Jn.5.28.
Luke 16's Rich man and Lazarus is the main fundamentalists benchmark to believe that life continues after death!(it all hangs on the word of a Roman Gentile?) Obviously this tale did not come from Jesus!

Soul (psyche/ruach) is mentioned over 800 times not once saying deathless, immortal or never dieing!
You can believe Paul, I'll believe Jesus!
---1st_cliff on 6/11/12


If you are saved from your sin it is because you heard the gospel Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that Jesus died for your sins and resurrected according to the scriptures.
this wasn't the gospel taught by the twelve during Jesus earthly ministry.

Matt 10:5-6 Jesus sends his disciples to avoid the Gentiles and preach to Israel only. In verse seven this is the message they were preaching to Israel only:

And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

This was known as the gospel of the kingdom (Mark 1:14-15). It wasnt until later that Jesus first mentioned his death.

---michael_e on 6/11/12


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Jed: "Pauls teachings did not conflict with Jesus'..."
Agree with your understanding and Francis yours too. I am a firm believer in all the Bible but had been reading that some did not think Paul's writings were scripture and could not figure out why.
---Marie on 6/11/12


Barb, I am aware of the Ebionites and some other small anti-pauline groups of Jewish Christians which existed earlier in history. But there are no such groups that have existed continuously since the time of the Apostles. You are welcome to believe what you will, but you will be about as successfully convincing as the few Jehovah's Witnesses around here are. Peace to you.
---Catholicus on 6/11/12


//Catholicus, actually there were quite a few folks who were critics of Paul in the past //

we are not asking for websites. we are asking for names.
---aka on 6/11/12


David: "It's not what Paul taught, but it's the way in which many teach what Paul taught."

Exactly!

Peter recorded:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Many on CN will take one of Paul's letters and construe it to mean something in direct contradiction to Jesus' own words - as if Paul somehow trumps Jesus.


---jerry6593 on 6/11/12


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Apostle Paul taught the Very same as Apostle Peter, Acts 2 v 38. The Apostles All taught The Same, beginning with Apostle on the day of Pentecost.
God isn't double minded to give the other Apostles diff to preach.
---Lawrence on 6/11/12


antiChrist and antiChristian women will blaspheme Saint Paul and his gospel from Jesus Christ which he preached without compromise. Misandrosy which hatred of men, these women will sin by blaspheming their head rather than being the helpmate which they were created for, to be the man's companion. They fail realize in thier hatred, they are also hating Jesus Christ the Lord, for he also is a man. These sinners who want to dis Saint Paul are NonChristians whom are antiChrist and antiHoly Bible, for Saint Paul, proven to be a Saint from Christ has written a large part of the New Testament Holy Scriptures.
---Eloy on 6/10/12


//Aka, you actually just described the trinity in your attempt to discredit it. //

not trying to discredit something that has credit only to judeo-christians. the trinity is God of the OT (Yahweh) that is the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit in the NT.

Elohim of the OT is The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from the beginning as Godliness revealed throughout the Scriptures.

Jed, it is no big deal. 125 is just not enough.
---aka on 6/10/12


Catholicus, actually there were quite a few folks who were critics of Paul in the past and there are a bunch of forums and websites today that do the same. I would provide links but I don't believe that is allowed here.
---barb on 6/10/12


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I guess what interests me is that the combined wisdom of believers in Jesus over the centuries has accepted Paul's writings as canonical, but then a few people come along and say all those believers have been wrong. People come up with all sorts of ideas to convince themselves they know better. But I am not convinced by them.
---Catholicus on 6/10/12


"Goldiness" lol

spell checkers are useless if you do not check the author first.
---aka on 6/10/12


"Elohim (Godliness) consists of one interaction of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." -aka on 6/10/12

Aka, you actually just described the trinity in your attempt to discredit it. You do know that Jesus observed all the Jewish feasts and festivals right? This is why Jesus said "I have not come to destroy the law, but fulfill it". And that Christians worship the same God that established Judaism and gave us the commandments?
---Jed on 6/10/12


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