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Explain 1 Corinthians 15:56

Explain 1 Corinthians 15:56 the strength of sin is the law
in light of Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin?

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"Adam was created tolive forever, as long as he did not eat from the tree of good and evil, he did not have to work for eternal life, he was born with it granted to him"-francis on 6/25/12
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
This does not say "live forever again", nor does it say "continue to live forever"
So, is there any passage that says Adam was made to live on earth forever?
---micha9344 on 6/28/12


Adam was created with righteousness, he did not have to work for it

Adam was created tolive forever, as long as he did not eat from the tree of good and evil, he did not have to work for eternal life, he was born with it granted to him

He was in no need of grace

He was in no need of salvation

And like all God's creation he was created a free moral agent to choose his own path.

What exactly did adam have to work for in the context of life, grace, righteousness, and salvation?
---francis on 6/25/12


The covenant of works that condemns everyone is the covenant God make with Adam "before he sinned."
---Mark_V. on 6/25/12

Nope wrong
What was Adam working for?

Adam was created a free moral agent. he was creasted in the image of God: He was created righteous, perfect, without sin. he did not have to work for salvation, nor did he have to work to stay alive.

He was a free moral agent like all of God's creation to chose to walk with god or walk away from God
---francis on 6/25/12


francis, what I have found is many questions posted by Jerry concerning the Saturday Sabbath, and here you posted this one which also leads to the law which then leads to breaking your law of Saturday Sabbath.
Yet in all the time here you never presented one passage where God commanded anyone to keep Saturday Sabbath. You and Jerry were not able to provide one passage. Only that you keep the law, but in fact you cannot keep all the law otherwise you would not need Christ to keep it for you. And since no one is saved by keeping the law, including you, everything you argue is useless.
---Mark_V. on 6/25/12


-CraigA on 6/24/12

If you look at the majority of questions about keeping the sabbath, and about keeping the law, they are not written by SDA.

When these questions are written, and SDA answer them in great detail, and with many scriptures, then we get This:

Why is it there are some people who constantly talk about keeping the Sabbath, and keeping the 10 commandments.
---Rob on 5/20/12

Rob himself writes many blogs not about christ, but about SDA the sabbath and the ten commands

Is not keeping the Law of foremost importance to you?
---Mark_Eaton on 5/14/12

Don't you think this question is better adressed to those who write the blog question?
---francis on 5/14/12
---francis on 6/25/12




francis, I will make one more attempt. The covenant of works that condemns everyone is the covenant God make with Adam "before he sinned." Keep the law perfect or die. He broke the law and took all with him. Every descendant of Adam is born "in Adam." That is the covenant of works that was violated. Adam was our representitive.
God made another covenant with mankind "after the fall," that was a covenant of grace. He promised a Redeemer. All other covenants are covenants of grace only one better then the other. Only through a substitution can man be saved. The substitute is Jesus Christ who keeps the law for us and we are now "in Christ".
---Mark_V. on 6/25/12


Francis asked: "do you see any issues in my post that shows any lack of faith?"

Most here on CN know the answer to this question, Francis. It's your obsession with the law. You judge people here as unsaved if they don't obey it to the same (IMPERFECT) level that you do.

And as Rom 11:6 says, it's either works of the law OR grace. It CAN'T be both.
Francis mixes works of the law and grace together.
Thus, being lukewarm, God will spew you out of His mouth (Rev 3:16). Being lukewarm is having no faith.
---Haz27 on 6/25/12


I honestly just dont understand why you people are so obsessed (and YES its an OBSESSION) with the Sabbath Day!

Do you not understand that you look like you preach the law for salvation!? Instead of obsessing about the law so much why not obsess about Jesus Christ? That is the only way people will have a heart that desires to obey the law in the first place.
---CraigA on 6/24/12


You're just not getting it! Faith in Christ seems to be a stumbling block for you
---CraigA on 6/21/12

take time to gather your thoughts before your post.
Be sure you are responding to the right question.

Even the covenant with isarel that God would be thier God and they would be his people and obey him, was a covenant of faith.

God had already proven Himself to them. He even promised to forgive their sins, all they had to do with accept it by FAITH
---francis on 6/16/12
NEVER has anythng ( Salvation or grace) been earned by works. It has always been righteousness by faith from the very day that Adam sinned
---francis on 6/15/12

do you see any issues in my post that shows any lack of faith?
---francis on 6/23/12


Francis, you are OBEYING HIM by believing on his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ!

Gal 3:1,2
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

You're just not getting it! Faith in Christ seems to be a stumbling block for you.

If all we had to do was repent of our sins and obey the commandments to receive the Holy Spirit, then Jesus died for nothing!
---CraigA on 6/21/12




So where have you guys read about " A COVENANT OF WORKS."
---francis on 6/20/12


I havent.

The right faith will produce the works because we rely completely upon Jesus Christ and that is when his Spirit lives THRU us!
---CraigA on 6/21/12


Many coventants that God made with people he gave them specific instructions to follow.
---Jed on 6/20/12

At what point in time did all that God create not have instrution to follow?

Do not the angels who have never sinned follow instruction?

If following instruction or obeying god is a covenant of works, then one may make a false arguement that the new covenant is also a covenant fo works:

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all THEM THAT OBEY HIM

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things, and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to THEM THAT OBEY HIM.
---Francis on 6/20/12


Francis, Now I understand what you are saying but I disagree. Many coventants that God made with people he gave them specific instructions to follow. Many of them were contingent upon works. If you do this, then I'll do this.
---Jed on 6/20/12


---Jed on 6/20/12
I was not saying that works does not matter. I was saying that all covenants of God is based on FAITH, and not works. And that there is no such thing as covenant fo works.
---francis on 6/20/12


Francis, I'm not really sure what you are talking about. Covenant of works? I've never heard that term before. I was simply responding to your posts about faith being all you need and that works don't matter.
---Jed on 6/20/12


---Rod4Him on 6/20/12

---Jed on 6/20/12

---CraigA on 6/20/12

You guys are getting off track and off the subject.

We are talking about a covenant fo works.

So where have you guys read about " A COVENANT OF WORKS."
---francis on 6/20/12


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//I did not see And works without faith is dead also.//

However, one of the main messages of scripture is that people could have works but still not follow/believe/(have faith) God with their hearts.

One can have works without faith, but one can not have faith without works.
---Rod4Him on 6/20/12


Francis, don't water the scripture down. "Faith without works is dead". Meaning exactly what it says. That faith alone is not enough. That's dead.
---Jed on 6/20/12


Romans 10:1-4 is for you Francis.


Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Francis, is that he might be saved. For I bear him record that he has a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For he being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish his own righteousness, has not submitted himself unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one that believeth
---CraigA on 6/20/12


Francis, read James. "Faith without works is dead. And works without faith is dead also."
---Jed on 6/19/12
thanks jed
which further proves that there is no covenant of works.

there are only covenant fo faith which is demonstrated by works

By fait abel made a work of sacrifice
By faith noah made a boat
By faith abraham left home and saught a bettet contry

So the covenant is never a covenant of works, but one of faith. WHen we act on faith it is called works

I did not see And works without faith is dead also."
---francis on 6/20/12


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francis, lets me honest, no amount of Truth will change you heart, because the Truth has to come to you in power, so no matter what anyone tells you, you will be talking about the law till you blue in the face. Once you are under the grace of God then you will be speaking about what the Lord is doing through your life, and not what you must do to earn your way into heaven by trying to keep the law. The law has you in bondage. You are in great need of freedom.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/12


Francis, read James. "Faith without works is dead. And works without faith is dead also."
---Jed on 6/19/12


"He was created without sin, he had no need to work for life eternal he was born with it"-francis on 6/19/12
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
francis is, once again, using human understanding without regard to scripture.
Don't worry though, he is slick and will find a way to misuse scripture and knowledge to redeem himself...
---micha9344 on 6/19/12


all God required of any one is faith not works.
---francis on 6/16/12

Really, Where?
---Ruben on 6/19/12

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah,
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham

Now in the CONTEXT of which we are speaking, God has NEVER had a covenant that required works

What would works have earned them?

All these people had was FAITH IN THE PROMISE,

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
---francis on 6/19/12


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John 16:26_27 "At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God."
John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name"

Sons? Standing before or standing with always? How?
John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."
---Nana on 6/19/12


all God required of any one is faith not works.
---francis on 6/16/12

Really, Where?

"But he who does what is true comes to the light"(JHn 3:20)

"they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life"(JHn 5:28-29)

"Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" If you would enter life, keep the commandments"(JHn 15:16)

"HE SHALL REWARD EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS." (MT 16:26)

And not foget about the separation of the sheeps and goats based on the works. (MT 25:31-46)
---Ruben on 6/19/12


---Mark_V. on 6/19/12
Bottom line is this:
There is no such thing, and theer has never been a covenant of works

What would works gain anyone?

What was Adam going to work for?
He was created without sin, he had no need to work for life eternal he was born with it
---francis on 6/19/12


Francis, I will write it down again here in case you miss the other blog.

francis, what you don't want to grasp is that you cannot stand before God with your own works. People are at enmity against God, separated from Him because of our sin. God does not permit us to stand before Him without Christ. God allowed that with Adam before He sinned. After sinning the covenant of grace came into been. And the only way man could come to God is by His Son because we are all sinners. And only His righteousness allows us to come to God. All your righteous works will not allow you to come before God. Only the Works of Christ are exceptable.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/12


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francis, works is our own obedience.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/12

Your premise is thus faulty.

All who are sons of God, this would include the Holy angels are obedient to Him.
Even nature obeys Him

Daniel 7:27 all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Matthew 8:27 What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him,
---francis on 6/17/12


francis, works is our own obedience. Our works that God demanded from Adam who failed. No works no salvation. And since all who are born are under Adam, they too are under the works of the Law of God. No one even now can keep the whole law by obedience, we all still fail, but we have an Advocate in the Lord Jesus Christ who stands for us before God. Praise be to God in the highest for sacrificing His own Son so that we could have life.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/12


Francis. It's good to see you've made a small effort at toning down your usual ridicule of any who don't buy your false doctrine.

BTW, its the Spirit within a man that gives him understanding.
It's unfortunate you refuse spiritual understanding.
Hence, Acts 28:25-27 says to the likes of you:

"Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see, and not perceive,
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them."
---Haz27 on 6/17/12


---Haz27 on 6/16/12
intelligence capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity, aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

Because you posts are biblically lacking in these basic things I must put you on hold.

BYE

---Mark_V. on 6/16/12
Very nice post on the mechanics of a covenant. Good job.

yet, there is no such thing as a covenant of works.
God is not asking anyone to work for anything

In almost every covenant, God had already blessed the people with whom he made the covenant, and all God required of any one is faith not works.
---francis on 6/16/12


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Francis said: "He even promised to forgive their sins, all they had to do with accept it by FAITH"

Francis,YOU desire to be under the law, contradicting your claim above.

Francis is similar to Israel
"they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone."Rom 9:32

Rom 14:23 "whatever is NOT OF FAITH IS SIN."

Gal 3:11,12 "the just shall live by faith.Yet THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH,"

BUT, for Christians we seek to "be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith"
Phil 3:9
---Haz27 on 6/16/12


francis, what you discribe is what a covenant of God is, when God as a king and what He demands from His servants. It is never equal. In a suzerain -vassal covenant there is no negotiations between the two parties.
The first element of these covenant is the preamble, which lists the respective parties, (Ex. 20:2) God is the suzerain: the people of Israel are the vassals. The Second element is the historical prologue. Here list what God has done to deserve loyalty. The next section the Lord lists what He will require of those He rules. With Adam God demanded loyalty, obedience, to His commands. And promised a blessing for obedience, and a curse for disobedience.
---Mark_V. on 6/16/12


---Mark_V. on 6/16/12
there is no such thing with God as covenant of works.

God does not makes covenants based on what man will do, but based on what God has dene, and what God can do.

Even the covenant with isarel that God would be thier God and they would be his peopel and obey him, was a covenant of faith.

Exodus 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

God had already proven Himself to them. He even promised to forgive their sins, all they had to do with accept it by FAITH
---francis on 6/16/12


In most households there are rules. The person who makes the rules, usually from time to time allows the rules to be bent. Let's say that a child has been just an exemplory child. If that child breaks one of the rules of the house, the parents may let that child/ rule slide because this child has been so well behaved in the past.

Although there may be a set dicipline measure for breaking that rule, the measure is not strong, it is flexible because for good behaviour in the past, the parent may let the rule slide.

Not so with the law.
No amount of good behaviour in the past will allow us to break any of the 10 commandments without it being sin.

Thus sin is strong because the law is unyielding
---francis on 6/16/12


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Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Different people, different covenant, different commands...Same God
---micha9344 on 6/16/12


francis, you should know what a covenant is. Though you don't find the word covenant in Genesis between Adam and God, a covenant is normally an agreement between two equal parties, but in Scripture they are not equal parties. They follow a pattern common to the ancient Near East suzerain-vassal treaties. Between a conquering King and the conquered. In Genesis, the covenant is between God who is King, and Adam who is but a servant of the King. God lists the benefits of obeying Him, and the curses should the people or in this case Adam for disobeying Him. Adam disobeyed and incurred the curses to himself and all mankind, not the blessing of eternal life. That is as simple as I can make it without putting down Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 6/16/12


1 Corinthians 15:56 the strength of sin is the law

Sin can only get it's strength from a strong unbreakable, unchanging law.

Ecclesiastes 4:12 a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

But if we take one of the cords away, it is quicker to be broken because it is not as strong

If we are able to take any of the ten commandments away from the law, then sin has no strength, because the law is easily taken apart

Sin is sin, because the unchanging law ( the ten commandments) Says that it is sin
---francis on 6/15/12


1 Corinthians 15:56, Paul is discussing the Law of Sin and Death. We are sinners and therefore we will die.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

In Romans 7:7 Paul is discussing the Moral law of God written in our hearts. Heb8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hope this is helpful.
---trey on 6/15/12


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francis, if you drive your car on Saturday, you are DESECRATING the Sabbath, and deserve to die, according to the OT.
---Cluny on 6/15/12
NT also
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death


---lee1538 on 6/15/12
If you have not yet figured out the difference between the sabbath, and circumcision ask me and I will be happy to tell you.

Engraved on the very same stone is: Honour thy father and thy mother tnat thy DAYS MAY BE LONG...

Are you saying that if we honour or father and mother, and have long days then we are participating in a ministry of death?
---francis on 6/15/12


\\9: Do keep the sabbath day holy
10: Do not bare false witness

SIn which is breaking of the law, gets it's trength from these commandments which are unchangable, unbending and unyielding.\\

francis, if you drive your car on Saturday, you are DESECRATING the Sabbath, and deserve to die, according to the OT.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/15/12


francis //SIn which is breaking of the law, gets it's strength from these commandments which are unchangable, unbending and unyielding.

Yes, the OT law specifically states that male children MUST BE circumcised and if possible on the 8th day after birth. But, I would ask you francis, if this law is APPLICABLE to us as Christians. If you say male children need not become circumcised then CLEARLY, you have a law that is not applicable and thus is NOT a sin.

It is the same with the OT Sabbath as if it were applicable THEN we would MOST CERTAINLY see it commanded of the church in the New Testament BUT we do NOT.
---lee1538 on 6/15/12


Haz //Francis. The ministry of DEATH, written and engraved on stones is the law of sin and death (10C).
Trangression resulted in death, the same as what you preach here on CN.

The Adventist like Francis and Jerry, possess a mindset much like the radical Islamist in that they cannot be subject to change without an overwhelming external influence. In the case of former Adventists, it is usually an act of God's holy Spirit opening their eyes to the false gospel as preached by Adventism.

Thus we can expect to see them embrace that ministry of death & condemnantion craved on letters of stone unless the Lord has mercy upon them.
---lee1538 on 6/15/12


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What was the punishment for breaking one of these commandments?
Francis are you still alive?
---michael_e on 6/15/12

Not was, what IS the punishment:
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
That has NOT changed

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.





The original covenant between God and humankind was a covenant of works.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/

NEVER has anythng ( Salvation or grace) been earned by works. It has always been righteousness by faith from the very day that Adam sinned
---francis on 6/15/12


1: honour your father and your mother
2: Do not worship other gods
3: Do not take God's name in vain
4: Do not make idols to worship
5: Do not commit adultery
6: Do not steal
7: Do not kill?
8: Do not covet
9: Do keep the sabbath day holy
10: Do not bare false witness

What was the punishment for breaking one of these commandments?
Francis are you still alive?
---michael_e on 6/15/12


francis, the original covenant between God and humankind was a covenant of works. In this covenant God required perfect and total obedience to His rule. He promised eternal life as the blessing of obedience, but threatened mankind with death for disobeying God's law. All human beings from Adam to the present are "inescapably members of this covenant." People may refuse to obey or even acknowledge the existence of such a covenant, but they can never escape it. All human beings are in a covenant relationship to God, either as covenant breakers or covenant keepers. The Covenant of works is the basis of our need of redemption (because we have violated it) and our hope of redemption because Christ has fulfilled its terms for us.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/12


2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance, which glory was to be done away:

How many are aware that Paul is not talking about the ten commandments here. Remember it was NOT THE 10 commandments that shone, it was MOSES' face

Exodus 34:29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
---francis on 6/14/12


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1: honour your father and your mother
2: Do not worship other gods
3: Do not take God's name in vain
4: Do not make idols to worship
5: Do not commit adultery
6: Do not steal
7: Do not kill?
8: Do not covet
9: Do keep the sabbath day holy
10: Do not bare false witness

SIn which is breaking of the law, gets it's trength from these commandments which are unchangable, unbending and unyielding.

These commandments tells us without reservation what is acceptable to God, and what sin is.

If these laws can be changed in anyway then sin would be subjective and not have any strength at all

1 Corinthians 15:56 the strength of sin is the law in
---francis on 6/14/12


Francis. The ministry of DEATH, written and engraved on stones is the law of sin and death (10C).
Trangression resulted in death, the same as what you preach here on CN.

Rom 8:1,2:" There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me FREE FROM THE LAW of sin and death."

Francis, if you want to please God, obey His commandments, 1John3:23
BELIEVE ON JESUS
LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
This is the better much more glorious ministry of the Spirit/Righteousness Christians are under 2Cor 3:7-9
---Haz27 on 6/14/12


\\Do you bare false witness?\\
---francis on 6/14/12


ummm, francis.

I'm not sure if you are aware of it, but BARE means NAKED

Are you saying that you take all the clothes off a liar?
---James_L on 6/14/12


Francis, your under the ministry of DEATH/CONDEMNATION written in stones.
---Haz27 on 6/14/12
I would like to ask a 10 questions to those who think that "ministry of DEATH/CONDEMNATION written in stones" means ten commandments:

1: Do you honour your father and your mother?
2: Do you worship other gods?
3: Do you take God's name in vain?:
4: Do you make idols to worship?
5:Do you commit adultery?
6: Do you steal?
7: Do you kill?
8: Do you covet?
9: Do you keep the sabath day holy?
10: Do you bare false witness?

All these were written and engraved ON THE SAME STONE
---francis on 6/14/12


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//Christians are under the much more glorious ministry of the Spirit/Righteousness. We obey His commandments, 1John 3:23

Totally agree but those that advocate obedience to law have only a religious philosophy by which they strive to live. And they are subject to their own interpretation of the law.

Those that walk by God's Spirit are NOT under the law.

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
---lee1538 on 6/14/12


But if the ministry of DEATH, written and engraved on stones,
---Haz27 on 6/14/12
What do you understand the ministry of DEATH, written and engraved on stones, to be?
---francis on 6/14/12


Francis. Your wrong. We Christians do keep His commandments.
"this is His commandment that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and LOVE one another, as He gave us commandment."
1John 3:23
Why do you disobey?

But if the ministry of DEATH, written and engraved on stones, was glorious,... which glory was PASSING AWAY, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of CONDEMNATION had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 2Cor 3:7-9

Francis, your under the ministry of DEATH/CONDEMNATION written in stones.

Christians are under the much more glorious ministry of the Spirit/Righteousness. We obey His commandments, 1John 3:23


---Haz27 on 6/14/12


Haz27 on 6/13/12

This is the very first intelligent post that you have every posted 20:1 you follow it up with some unintelligence like saying that christians do not have to honour their father and mother, or do not have to abstain from adultery, ( keep ten commandments)
---francis on 6/14/12


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Francis. Agreed the law is not sin."But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire" Rom 7:8
So we see it's sin that dwells within man, Rom 7:17

"O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind (Spirit) I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin." Rom 7:25

Now, Christians are NOT in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Rom 8:9
Christ is in us, hence the body is DEAD because of sin. Rom 8:10
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit, Rom 8:1
---Haz27 on 6/13/12


SUCH A SIMPLE REQUEST:

---James_L on 6/12/12
---Haz27 on 6/12/12
---Rob on 6/12/12

Can you guys please explain to me what micha9344 on 6/12/12 was trying to say, and how it relates to the blog question.

I guess you guys can't explain it either huh.
---francis on 6/13/12


James L., Francis is not playing stupid. Francis is very aware of what he is doing.

Francis is also very aware that he is doing the work of the one he serves, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.
---Rob on 6/13/12


---James_L on 6/13/12

I take it that you do not understand what micha9344 on 6/12/12 was trying to say, and how it relates to the blog question.
It's Ok, i do not understand it eaither

I was hoping that you did and could explain it to me and how it related to the blog question, or how it related to what I posted
---francis on 6/13/12


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francis,

It's ALMOST fruitless to try to discuss this with you in a rational manner.

WHY ?

Because instead of pondering what someone writes, you discount any scriptures quoted and say "But what about this other scripture?"

Why don't you ever give a reasonable explanation (rebuttal) concerning the scripture that was quoted, instead of hurling a different scripture that appears to shoot down the one quoted?

Why are we the only ones who have to expound? Shouldn't you be able to?

Explain what Titus 1:9 means when it says that the Law is not for a righteous man.

And if you quote another, explain how they relate, or negate
---James_L on 6/13/12


ALL law is dead, gone, and buried (unless you want to consider "LIBERTY" a "LAW").

Mosaic law (what he brought down from the mountain PLUS the rules/ordinances of his own) was ABOLISHED. Now, no one can violate ("SIN" against) it anymore. For us, "sin" is no longer spiritually relevant at all, the word and concept is simply OBSOLETE to us, but the world is hung up on it as a self-persecution metaphor for "wrongdoing". There is no text/guidelines or obligations/requirements to this LIBERTY "law" in James 1:25 and 2:12 (but neither is it an OPTION for those who choose to "look" to PERFECTION). "when the perfect comes, the imperfect shall...." (1 Corin. 13).
---more_excellent_way on 6/13/12


---James_L on 6/12/12
---Haz27 on 6/12/12
---Rob on 6/12/12

Well then, can you guys please explain to me what
micha9344 on 6/12/12 was trying to say, and how it relates to the blog question?
---francis on 6/12/12


francis,
you try to play stupid as if nobody here has ever explained this to you. Why do you deceive?

No, the Law is not sin. Obeying the Law is not sin.

BUT, our flesh LOVES to break the Law. This is the weakness of the Law that Paul spoke of.

And this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to be death for me (Romans 7:10)

WHY?

Because sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting....(Rom 7:8)

Like putting a cookie jar on the counter and telling a 4 year old not to get into it. The prohibition piques his interest
---James_L on 6/12/12


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Rob said to Francis: "This shows there are some people who do use their brains, and it is apparent some people have a severe learning disability."

Rob, you got it wrong. It's not really "brains" v's "learning disability"
micha9344 has spiritual understanding discerning scripture spiritually.

But for Francis, being like the natural man, he "receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned" 1Cor 2:13,14
---Haz27 on 6/12/12


Francis, I like the respnse you gave Micha on 6/12/12.

But I must be HONEST, CONFESS, and ADMIT the reason I like it is a bad reason.

You wrote "Nice quotes", and "I I have no idea how it relates to the blog question".

This shows there are some people who do use their brains, and it is apparent some people have a severe learning disability.
---Rob on 6/12/12


---micha9344 on 6/12/12
Nice quotes
I have no idea how it relates to the blog question, I have no idea what point you are trying to make. You posted a lot fo text, not all related to one another
---francis on 6/12/12


Awesome post francis, but the step SDA's need to take is if it is applicable to Christians.
The law reveals sin and where there is sin there is death.
Now hold your breath, this is where Christ comes in...
1Ti 1:9a Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners...
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious...which [glory] was to be done away:
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
I don't know how it could be any clearer...
---micha9344 on 6/12/12


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Francis, why do you break the LAW and SIN, by telling LIES, and BEARING FALSE WITNESS AGAINST OTHERS?

Why do you you say you keep all 10 Commandment, when it has been proven and exposed many times by others that you don't?
---Rob on 6/12/12


Yes, the law of Moses helps to expose sin > "I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, 'You shall not covet.'" (in Romans 7:7) "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." (Galatians 3:24-25) With Jesus we have our "better covenant" (in Hebrews 8:6). But the law helped to bring us to Jesus.
---willie_c: on 6/12/12


The law is the unchanging word of God ( that is where we get our expression " written in stone') and sin is the trangression of the law.
Any violation of the law will always be sin. The law is unchanging. Therefore there is no wiggle room, no gray areas when it comes to the law and sin.
This makes sin black and white (strong). Either you have violated the law or not. No gray areas.
If we were to say that violation of any of the commandments in the law was not sin, then sin would not be strengthened by the law, we would have gray areas, some wiggle room to play with the law
but it is not so, the strength of sin is the law, the law is strong and unchanging, and so any violation of the commandments in the law is sin. No gray areas
---francis on 6/12/12


1 Corinthians 15:57 "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
What does that mean, that we are not obliged to anything? It is not so:
1 Corinthians 15:58 "Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord."

Also: 1 John 5:18 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not, but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."
And Jesus also said: Luke 17:1_10.
---Nana on 6/11/12


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francis, you must be up to something again. (1 Cor. 15:56 goes with the context). Paul joyed in the reality of the resurrection (v.52-55). He quoted (Is. 25:8) and (Hos. 13:14). The latter quote taunts death as if it were a bee whose sting was removed. That sting "was the sin that was exposed by the law of God," but conquered by Christ in His death.
(Rom. 7:7) is speaking about "knowing sin through the law."
Both passages speak about sin been exposed by the law, but (1 Cor. 15:57) tells us "But thanks be to God, who gives us (believers) the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ"
---Mark_V. on 6/11/12


"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law" 1 Cor. 15:56

Death is the result of sin. Sin derives it's power from the law, since the word sin actually means to break the law. So without the law, there would be no such thing as sin.

This fully explains Romans 7:7 -"What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

Simply put, they both verses are saying that the law is what defines sin.
---Jed on 6/11/12


Francis, I would be more interested in your explanation. Peace to you.
---Catholicus on 6/10/12


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