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Writings Of Paul False

Are the writings of Paul false because he did not say the same exact words Jesus said? Some here claim that Paul's writings have to be exact or else they are wrong, Scripture please.

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 ---Mark_V. on 6/12/12
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barb, you are correct. it does say that. sometimes my pen does not write what my mind thinks.

however, i see that you are not willing to see the relationship in this either. and also, i can see that you have found a way to side step my second point.

it seems that you still are working on the overcoming part. it takes time. hint: our works (under our own power) are like filthy rags.

ohn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

written by the same who penned the Revelation of Jesus Christ
---aka on 6/24/12

Love, as in the verb form, will get you into heaven. Genuine love, the royal love, the perfect love, is a rarity in todays world. Let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth. It's this genuine, action verb form of love that is the fulfilling of the law. It's also the ultimate law that all the laws and the prophets hang upon.

Do an online KJV bible search for the word "love."

And while you're at it do an online KJV bible search of "one another," "each other," encourag," and "comfort" to learn about puting the word "love" into action.
---Steveng on 6/24/12

No, aka. Jesus said on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. He did not say fulfil. Matt 22:37-40.
---barb on 6/24/12

//By keeping 2 commandments or by obeying all ten?// barb

jesus gave the two great commandments, and jesus said that these two fulfill the law and the prophets.

//Does He mean we must follow Him and do as He taught us, using Him as our example or does He mean we must have faith that righteousness is ours thru grace?// barb


John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

written by the same who penned the Revelation of Jesus Christ

are you saying that we can overcome under our own power without his grace?
---aka on 6/23/12

Did Jesus overcome sin? How did He do it? By keeping 2 commandments or by obeying all ten? When Jesus teaches us that we must pick up our own cross and follow Him what does He mean? Does He mean we must follow Him and do as He taught us, using Him as our example or does He mean we must have faith that righteousness is ours thru grace?

What is Jesus talking about when He makes this statement:
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me on my throne, even as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne"?
---barb on 6/23/12

Jesus in His humanity did not give the Ten Commandments. He gave two commandments. He never said that everyone could keep the whole law. If He had then we would not need Christ as our Atonement. Jesus said,
"And I will pray the Father and He will give you another Helper that He may abide with you forever the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him, but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you." "A little while longer and the world will not see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also."
Jesus Himself came to Paul in Spirit. Just what He told us He would do.
---Mark_V. on 6/23/12

2Pe 3:15-18 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you, As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Pro 1, Jn 8:34->Rom 6:16
I leave you in peace also.
---micha9344 on 6/23/12

People have come so far away from the truth that they will push any old gospel because it gives room for false interpretations. From the premise of Apostle Paul, why people go against his teaching is because he speaks truth... Western Society is Babylon and Babylon has fallen and the end of it is the monitory system and the Mark of the beast.

After these things...The end.
---Carla on 6/23/12

//Jesus Christ came and showed us the Way to overcome//

yes. you Jesus said that you keep all the commandments (by your own standard) but how many are willing to lay it all down and follow Him.
How can you keep the commandments perfectly and not follow Jesus?

Read in Matthew 19:17-21.

Paul is not a hero, he is a broken vessel like the rest of us. Your sarcasm shows us more than you think.
---aka on 6/22/12

sister barb, you do not only not believe in Paul, but you have a bigger problem in your heart concerning the Bible which is the Word of God, you even suggest God allowed lies to be in His Word. Which is nonsense, you said,

" You people talk out of both sides of your mouth just as your hero Paul did."

you really did not want to discuss anything about Paul, and wanted to hear what others had to say about the gospel, you wanted to trash him period. There is no use anyone giving you passages are talking to you. The Truth is not important as far as you are concern. So I leave you peace and move on.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/12

Mark V, when Jesus came to His Kingdom (Israel) He did NOT do away with the ten commandments. God still wants us to overcome sin. (see Rev. 2,3, 21.) Jesus Christ came and showed us the Way to overcome and those of us who want to live in His mansions know what we must do.

Paul came along after Jesus and told us that it is impossible to keep the ten commandments and overcome sin. Paul says we are justified by faith Romans 3:20-13 and then so that he can keep everyone on his side he ends with "God forbid, yes, we establish the law." Paul doesn't really care if you keep the law or not he just wants to keep you from learning the truth.

You may not agree with me but surely this time you get what I am saying.
---barb on 6/22/12

Of course the serpent is in the word and his position is clearly defined,the bible is not a stumbling block of lies hidden amongst truth..(..a note there for anyone reading the book of Job)..Pauls role in the bible is clear and he suffered greatly for his ministry and the abundance of his revelations that many christians have barely scratched the surface in understanding!
---richard on 6/22/12

Richard, yes I do believe that God allowed lies into the bible. I also believe that He let the serpent into the Garden of Eden.
---barb on 6/22/12

sister barb, I still do not understand your reasoning. You give a passage from Numbers which includes the strangers with the Jews, and the same ordinances for both, then say Paul taught different because he taught Jews and Gentiles. Can you explain what the difference is? You do know because I told you that the Gentiles as a whole were not included in the covenant made to Israel until Paul came into the picture. Sure, there were some saved before Paul began his ministry. Just like there were some saved by the Spirit in the Old T. even though it was not the norm for all believers to be indwelled until Pentacost. I still do not understand your arguments and why?
---Mark_V. on 6/22/12

Then why in the world did it matter who went to the Jews and who went to the Gentiles if the message was the same. You people talk out of both sides of your mouth just as your hero Paul did.
---barb on 6/22/12

//Paul teaches two roads, one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles.//
Barb, Paul preached to jew and gentile, the crucified Christ.

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles...
Roms 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: ...
1 Cor 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and himself crucified.

Jesus couldn't preach himself crucified, he hadn't died yet.
Matt 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in THEIR synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom,...
---michael_e on 6/21/12

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..Man did not write the bible...God HAD to do it Himself (the reasons should be obvious) the fact that Paul got in there is testimony to Gods truth...Do you really believe God would allow the enemy to plant "weeds" in the Word who John tells us was made flesh?
---richard on 6/21/12

"God and His Son teach one road. Matt. 7:14. Paul teaches two roads, one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles."-barb on 6/21/12
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
1Co 1:22-24, Gal 3:28, Col 3:28
barb, you are either deceived, willfully ingorant, or blinded by the god of this world.
---micha9344 on 6/21/12

Mark V, God gave the same laws to the stranger as to the Jew. Numbers 15:15 "One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregration, and also for the stranger/alien that sojourns with you, an ordinacnce FOREVER in your generations, as you are so shall the stranger be before the Lord." Also see Exo. 12:49, Numbers 9:14, Lev. 24:22.

God and His Son teach one road. Matt. 7:14. Paul teaches two roads, one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles.
---barb on 6/21/12

barb, it was the same gospel but to different people. The Gentiles. The words he said to them were different. They were aliens to the commonwealth of Israel. They had lived different lives. They had not heard the gospel message. His trials with them were different, but the gospel was the same, otherwise we would not have the complete word of God, and before Scripture closed we would have been warned of Paul, for us not to believe him. Paul stories are in the Word of God for a reason. Otherwise you might as well throw out all the books before Jesus was incarnated and all others after His resurrection.
---Mark_V. on 6/21/12

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//A different gospel perhaps?//
Absolutely Barb
1 Cor 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness,
---michael_e on 6/20/12

Michael e, you said "why would God go thru such trouble to raise up Paul if he wasn't doing something different"?

God sent His only begotten Son to testify to the truth John 18:37 and Jesus completed the work that God gave Him, John 17:4, so why indeed.

I do not believe that Paul was raised up by God but he certainly was preaching something different. A different gospel perhaps?

Jesus planted His Words/Truth into the field and then an enemy came along and planted words/lies. Matt 13:17-43.
---barb on 6/20/12

Paul does not teach lawlesness. He wrote:Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

People have taken some of his words and twisted them to get rid of the law. The problem is not with Paul's writings it is with those who twist them.
---Samuel on 6/20/12

James, I know that Matthew and John are not imposters because they agree with the Law and Prophets, with the epistles of John and the book of Revelation.

Paul does not agree with the Law and Prophets, the gospels of John and Matthew, the epistles of John or the book of Revelation. Paul teaches lawlessness.
---barb on 6/20/12

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Steven, thanks for your comments but I am somewhat bewildered by them. I am not at all challenged by human opinion as my eyes are upon God's word. That is my guide. I oppose what Barb is saying because she rejects any part of God's word which opposes her human views. Any Bible believing Christian has the right and is commanded to oppose those who undermine, reject, or belittle God's word.

I was challenged decades ago to continually read through the Bible from page one to the end, and then begin again. Eventually a Bible-centered overview emerged definitely linking the OT with the NT. The OT being the foundation for the NT.
---Warwick on 6/20/12

If Paul taught the same thing as the twelve,
---michael_e on 6/19/12

TRUE Paul even checked with them to be sure that they were al preaching the same thing

Galatians 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Galatians 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision
---francis on 6/20/12

barb: I would like you to pray to have more of the Spirit that was in the Apostle Peter & the eleven that made them to recognize that Apostle Paul was not working against them anymore but in alignment. The same Spirit made David to spare killing King Saul when he had the physical advantage to do it.
---Adetunji on 6/20/12

//did He just say it to His 12 disciples?//
Barb, you are right Jesus said those words to Israel's 12 Apostles
He also told them
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Do you have any biblical record of them leaving Israel?
---michael_e on 6/19/12

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Warwick and others,
don't be influenced by modern culture. Paul wrote in Colossians to keep your faith simple. People today are making their relationship with God more complicated. People today will find a way to complicate the christian life - mixing and matching whatever suits their iching ears. Don't allow others to spoil your faith and joy built on men's thoughts and ideas instead of what Christ said. Just meditate on Christ's words and you can't go wrong. Colossians:8-10
---Steveng on 6/19/12

If Paul taught the same thing as the twelve, if he was in the same group as they, why bother? Why would God go through such trouble to raise up Paul if he wasn't doing something different?

religion gets nervous when you say Christ meant what He said, they get more upset when you say Paul meant what he said.

In the gospels, Jesus says He came only to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" and His disciples were NOT to go to the Gentiles (Matt. 10:5,6). Repeatedly, events related to Jesus fulfilled prophecy, He says nothlng about a new body,or a new creation. Jesus says He came in keeping with Israel's prophetic program.
Paul says he's the apostle to Gentiles. But people think Paul didn't mean what he said either.
---michael_e on 6/19/12

Did Jesus ever say this to Paul, "And the Holy Spirit...will guide you into ALL truth and will bring to your remembrance..." or did He just say it to His 12 disciples?
---barb on 6/19/12

I already answered this one for you, barb.

There is not one shred of evidence, biblical or otherwise, that Jesus spoke this about Christians in general.

If so, are you there yet? If you are there, why the need to appeal to extra-biblical sources?

You make so much of Jesus' eyewitnesses, but how do you know who they were? Matthew writes a gospel, and names himself as an apostle? John writes another, and anonymously refers to himself as someone Jesus loved?

How do you know they aren't imposters?
---James_L on 6/19/12

Michael e, I guess if I wrote a bunch of letters saying that I was a chosen vessel sent by Jesus Christ and then I wrote another letter saying that every word I wrote was scripture you would believe me.

Did Jesus ever say this to Paul, "And the Holy Spirit when He is come will guide you into ALL truth and will bring to your remembrance every word that I spoke to you" or did He just say it to His 12 disciples?
---barb on 6/19/12

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I saw the "Critiques of Paul" and researched two of the quotes readily available to me, Matthew Henry and Tertullian.
Both were snippets taken out of context...neither of these men thought for one instance that Paul was an "enemy of the Apostles."
Matthew Henry continually refered to him as St. Paul and Tertullian also to him as Apostle Paul...
The only questions came forward were for argument sake, but were speedily answered...
The critique, however, conveniently stopped short of the complete statements.
If these two are misleading, I would tend to think that the whole document has a biased slant to it through deception and outright lies...
barb, please wake to righteousness..
---micha9344 on 6/19/12

How about the writings of the Gospel of Thomas...114 phrases of Christ..and some are hard to understand..others follow the four Gospels in the Bible...duh.
---Larry on 6/19/12

"For anyone who may be interested you can read Critiques of Paul. You will find a long list from various people (poets to philosphers) from 200 AD to the present who were critics of Paul."-barb on 6/19/12
So were the unbelieving Jews of his day. Get onboard with the unbelievers...Peter took his writings as scipture, but since you discount Paul, you also discount the the author of Peter's epistle as well as Luke, and Mark, All you have togo with is Matthew and John and you cannot even verify them as the true authors..what a state youhave put yourself into...
---micha9344 on 6/19/12

//when Paul wrote that verse the only scripture he could have been referring to was the Law and the Prophets.//

2Tim. per most chronologists was Paul's last epistle, could easily, be his repeating and referring to his earlier writings
---michael_e on 6/19/12

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2 tim 3 16 is preceded by vs 15 which clearly states that salvation is found through faith in Jesus,this is also the message of the old the "rock that followed them" was Christ...If you want to argue that Paul wasnt a follower of Jesus,youll have to do so outside of Biblical revelation..good luck with that one!
---richard on 6/19/12

Sis barb, you need to stop believing that Truth is found outside of God's Word, the Bible. If any Truth is found out there it is because it is written in Scripture already. Many people have many opinions. Much of it is truth, but only if it is in accord with the Word of God. Heretics have been around forever, and they only want to take us away from the Word with their ideas and philosophies, thats how the Church failed through the ages.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/12

For anyone who may be interested you can read Critiques of Paul. You will find a long list from various people (poets to philosphers) from 200 AD to the present who were critics of Paul.
---barb on 6/19/12

Scott 1, I disagree with your answer. All the churches you mentioned were independed. Denominations consist of many churches uniting together with one ruler or group of rulers governing all the churches in the group. In 313 an alliance was consummated and an Hierarehy was formed. In the organisation of the Hierarchy, Christ was dethroned as head of the independed Churches who united and Emperor Constantine enthroned as Head of the Church. Ephesus and the others remained independed, with Christ as Head of their churches. The Catholic Church, name for its name (Catholic) was formed. It was the first denomination. Much later the Eastern Churches split from that union and they formed their own union.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/12

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God writes on walls today, even about German philosophers. Mene mene tekel. :)
---Catholicus on 6/19/12

Some one wrote on a wall, '"God is dead": Nietzsche'. And then someone equally unknown followd up with '"Nietzsche is dead" God.'
---Marc on 6/18/12

The writings from Saint Paul are Holy Scripture. And Holy Scripture is just that, namely, holy. I have studied in depth Paul's pharisaical details which he penned, and his writings and doctrine are true and are rightly honored as Holy Writ.
---Eloy on 6/18/12

Steven, before I came across this anti-Paul doctrine on Christainet I had rarely is ever heard of it. When I once or twice did it was a view held by somewhat odd folk.

Further I cannot see how Paul's writings (described by Peter as Scripture) are not strongly rooted in God's word. I note that Paul quotes from just the first 11 chapters of Genesis many dozens of times.

I see no conflict between the quotes of Jesus, and the inspired writings of others, and Paul.
---Warwick on 6/18/12

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The reason why many do not believe in Paul's writings is because they are not strongly rooted in the word of God - the rest of the bible. Paul's words may not be exactly what Jesus said, but Jesus rarely exactly quoted the old testament either. To understand Paul's writing you must know all the words God spoke throughuut the entire old testament AND the words of Jesus. There is a big difference between knowing the bible verse by verse and knowing the bible in the spirit. It's the spirit of the context not the word for word mouthing of verse numbers. This is the propblem: knowing verses instead of the spirit of what is being said.
---Steveng on 6/18/12

You guys are a riot. If you read Nietzsche, you might actually like him.
---Catholicus on 6/18/12

"Catholicus, that book you suggested is garbage. That Fredrich character said that god is dead. He followed the god of the dead, not the God of the living."-barb on 6/18/12
I think you helped him make his point rather well...
---micha9344 on 6/18/12

Richard, the problem is that when Paul wrote that verse the only scripture he could have been referring to was the Law and the Prophets. The New Testament was not put together until many years later.

---barb on 6/18/12

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Catholicus, that book you suggested is garbage. That Fredrich character said that god is dead. He followed the god of the dead, not the God of the living.
---barb on 6/18/12

......and is profitable for doctrine reproof instruction and correction....etc etc....
---richard on 6/18/12

Thanks, Catholicus. I will check it out.

I was just thinking that in the days of Noah there was only one person who obeyed, believed and trusted in God. The rest of the world believed lies and acted wickedly and they were destroyed.

Jesus warned His disciples not to be deceived (Matt 24:4) which means they could have been deceived if they had not held onto and obeyed the Word that they had been entrusted with.
---barb on 6/18/12

Barb, you can find some really great ammo against Paul in Friedrich Nietzsche's book "Daybreak."
---Catholicus on 6/17/12

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No, barb, only you...
"Then it seemed good to us the apostles, and to James the bishop, and to the elders, with the whole church, to send men chosen from among our own selves, with Barnabas, and Paul of Tarsus, the apostle of the Gentiles..."--Clementine Homilies, Constitution of the Holy Apostles, pg 156
"Afterwards let our Acts be read, and the Epistles of Paul our fellow-worker, which he sent to the churches under the conduct of the Holy Spirit, and afterwards let a deacon or a presbyter read the Gospels, both those which I Matthew and John have delivered to you, and those which the fellow-workers of Paul received and left to you, Luke and Mark."--pg 84
---micha9344q on 6/16/12

Michael, you say that the only people who rejected Paul were the unbelievers. Was the apostle John an unbeliever? Does he agree with the teachings of Paul? 1st John 3:3-11, 1st John 5:2-3, 1st John 5:17-20.

What about Jesus Christ Himself, does he agree with Paul? Rev. 12:17, Rev. 14:12, Rev. 21:7-8, Rev. 2:7, Rev. 2:11, Rev. 2:26, Rev. 3:12, Rev. 3:21, John 15:22, John 8:34-36.
---barb on 6/16/12

Most people today think that people in the 15th century thought the Earth was flat.
This is another false idea brought on by years of distorting the truth.
The fact is early Greeks and others as far back as the 2nd century BC understood it to be round.
We still have the hard-lined flat-earthers here 2200+ years later.
This doesn't mean the general consensus is 'flat-earth' today.
The only people that rejected Paul were unbelievers, essentially to his death.
He was only rejected as a false teacher by unbelieving Jews, even though he was a Pharisee originally.
If, on the otherhand he "was" preaching a different gospel, he would have been rejected by Jesus' followers, not Jesus' enemies, as Arius was in the 3rd c.
---micha9344 on 6/15/12

Truth is not determined by how many people believe it. Most of the people in 1492 thought the world was flat.

At least you are not afraid to go outside of the bible for proof. Good job. Now try the Clementine Homilies.
---barb on 6/15/12

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All I have to say is that Paul's writings are no different than that of Christ. Paul was just as much an apostle as the others and suffered greatly for the cause. Paul never promoted/gloried in himself. He always glorified God! It is certain that Peter and Luke believed Paul to be an apostle, along with a large host of saints. They were first hand witnesses. Do you beleive that God would allow Peter of all people to be duped?
---trey on 6/15/12

"...let Paul himself convict them, when he says, that one and the same God wrought in Peter for the apostolate of the circumcision, and in himself for the Gentiles. Peter, therefore, was an apostle of that very God whose was also Paul, and Him whom Peter preached as God among those of the circumcision, and likewise the Son of God, did Paul [declare] also among the Gentiles."--Irenaeus(120-202AD), Against Heresies, Bk3, Ch13
And many more through the centuries attest to Paul's validity, yet now comes barb 1900 years later and believes Paul to be a false teacher...who is right?
---micha9344 on 6/15/12

sis barb, all the sheep follow Jesus. They belong to Him forever. The sheep follow Him because they know His voice. Yet they will by no means follow the voice of strangers." We all hear His voice. We never stop hearing Him. We might disobey sometimes, but we hear Him.
Verses (1-5) is a metaphor of a Shepherd leading His sheep, but (v. 7-10) He changes the mataphor slightly. Here He is the gate. He is the enterance to the pen (v.9) that leads to proper pasture. These words echo Jesus words in (14:6) that He is the only way to the Father. His point is that He serves as the sole means to approach the Father and partake of God's promised salvation.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/12

//In the beginning the Churches were independent, so there was no denominations.//

That is not true. When Paul wrote letters to different churchs they were read aloud at the destination church (Ephesus, Corinth, Galatia, but then passed around to different churchs in the area. The city of Ephesus (the New York city of its day) was a major hub of christianity. Pastors of the surrouding local churchs would meet there to discuss christianity. John in revelation wrote to Ephesus first then the letter would be transferred along the trade routes to the other cities. Paul commented on this by saying "some follow me, others follow Apollos ..."
---Scott1 on 6/15/12

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Mark V, I agree with most of what you wrote. I would just add that we must know the voice of Jesus or we will not hear Him calling us into the sheepfold. He teaches us in John 10:5 that if we follow Him we will not know the voice of strangers and follow them by mistake.
---barb on 6/14/12

sis barb, the visible church, denominations, is made up of wheat and tares. They carry the name of Jesus but not all the members are genuine Christians. In many cases there might not be one genuine Christian. The Spiritual Church of Christ has only One Head, (Jesus Christ) and one fold, the body of Christ, made up of genuine believers Jews and Gentiles. His body of believers comes from all corners of the world. Those are His children. The others are not His children. Jesus never created denominations. Denominations consist of wheat and tares. Many denomination claim theirs is only true church, but they are wrong, for they are mixed with tares. In the beginning the Churches were independent, so there was no denominations.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/12

Cluny, Book Chapter and verse where Jesus "setup" any "churches".
Paul established at least 7!
---1st_cliff on 6/14/12

//I hope that I would have been as the woman from Canaan and eaten the crumbs (truth) that fell from the Master's table.//
You would rather be a dog, than Rom 8:17 " joint-heirs with Christ"?
---michael_e on 6/13/12

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\\And why are there so many denominations with various differing beliefs?\\

Because most people refuse to accept the sound doctrine of the Orthodox Church, as can be seen on here.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/12

Michael, agreed. I was a sheep from another fold waiting for Jesus to bring me in.

I hope that I would have been as the woman from Canaan and eaten the crumbs (truth) that fell from the Master's table.
---barb on 6/13/12

Mark V, yes I have read that verse. Can I ask you a couple of questions? Why is there not one fold and one shepherd today? And why are there so many denominations with various differing beliefs? Is it because the sheep are scattered? John 10:11-15. Who scattered the sheep?
---barb on 6/13/12

Barb, during Jesus earthly ministry, "you were without hope" (Matt.10:5, 15:24 )
You were never a lost sheep(Jere 50:6)
Time past includes Jesus earthly ministry.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands, 12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
---michael_e on 6/13/12

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barb, become a Christian and accept the Holy Scripture, rather than rack them.
---Eloy on 6/13/12

barb, I don't understand your thinking. Did you not read.

"And I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice, and there will be one flock and One Shepherd"

Jesus earthly ministry was for the Jews, the sheep from that fold. The other sheep were the Gentiles. All of them were going to be one fold. Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel. After Christ had risen, in (Acts 9:15) Christ sent Paul to the lost sheep of the Gentiles. They had different ministries. How could Paul not be of the same Truth if Christ called him? How about you? If God called you, and indwelled you with the Spirit, are you not of the same Truth?
---Mark_V. on 6/13/12

No, Mark the writings of Paul are not false because he did not use the exact same words as Jesus. They are false because they do not teach the same message. John 17:14-26. The true followers of Jesus Christ are united in truth.

You know, I heard someone say just the other day that most people do not have a clue what Jesus taught and I have to agree with him. Jesus pretty much sums it up in Matt: 13:10-23.

---barb on 6/12/12

\\Jesus did not set up a series of "churches" complete with hierarchy.Nor did He suggest it!\\

Yes, He did, and most cursory reading of the Gospels will show this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/12/12

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When you ask of writings of Paul being possibly false you are asking with a clouded question.
When you say "false" it speaks with intent to decieve .
Paul in no way intended to decieve anyone.
He did include what he called "my gospel" of which did not fully parallel what Jesus taught.
Paul goes on to say "I speak not by commandment but permission" meaning he spliced into the original gospel within his well meant letters.
There was no intent to decieve anyone.
---earl on 6/12/12

Mark V, Paul was not like Jesus or any of the apostles.
Consider: Jesus did not set up a series of "churches" complete with hierarchy.Nor did He suggest it!
Jesus sent out evangelists and promised the "Paraclete" (comforter) to assist in teaching "all"nations and making disciples (converts).
OTOH Paul set up a whole new religion complete with new rules and regulations (Pharisees were fanatic about rules "Law")
You might call today's mismatch "Christian Pharisees" believing the immortality of the human soul and Heaven as the goal of "all" humans.
New earth ???? Doesn't fit in fundamentalists hopes! They want to be right up there with God!
---1st_cliff on 6/12/12

"Are the writings of Paul false because he did not say the same exact words Jesus said? Some here claim that Paul's writings have to be exact or else they are wrong, Scripture please."
---Mark_V. on 6/12/12

Good question Mark! I believe the main reason some here are adamantly opposed to Paul's writings is because it touches nerves in unrepentant areas of their lives. The legalist among us, want word-for-word from Paul or else they accuse him of being wrong. What we have in Scripture is Paul's thought-for-thought by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I agree Willie_c: Jesus made Paul an apostle to expand His teachings to us. What Paul taught squares with & supplements Jesus' teachings.
---Leon on 6/12/12

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