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Taxpayer Paid For Abortions

In January 2009, Obama lifted restrictions on U.S. government funding for groups that provide abortion services abroad, forcing taxpayers to fund pro-abortion groups that either promote or perform abortions in other nations. Should U.S. taxpayer be forced to fund international abortion?

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 ---Jed on 7/8/12
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\\Very little of what they do have anything to do with abortions
---francis on 8/1/12\\

That's not what PP says about themselves.

Even a very little bit of abortion is too much.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/1/12


Cluny, I guess I just had the wrong idea of what an IUD is. I just remember seeing models of them at the gyno's office when my wife was pregnant and I thought it blocked the sperm from joining with the egg or something. I thought it was made out of copper or something that slowed down the sperm and prevented it from joining with the egg. I don't know. I'm no expert in that area.
---Jed on 7/31/12


---Jed on 7/31/12
I support ALL efforts to lower abortion rates.
And you have been missinformed about planned parenthood. Very little of what they do have anything to do with abortions
---francis on 8/1/12


BTW, Jed, my mother once thought the IUD was some kind of permanent diaphragm. It isn't.

If it were, it would interfere with menstruation, right?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/31/12


the most successful programs in stoping abortions are the program which allows a mother to see the baby via ultrasound ( NON INVASIVE), programs which enable mothers to give thier babies up for adoption, and program which tell parents about the help they an receive ( public housing, food stamps, medial care, continued education during and after the pregnancy. Programs which have to do with LOVE and CARE
---francis on 7/31/12

Francis, then I assume you support the conservative organizations like the Crisis Pregnancy Centers that do all these things you just described instead of Planned Parenthood that actually teaches pregnant mothers how to use abortion as a means of gender selection?
---Jed on 7/31/12




NurseRobert if you want people to take you seriously you must not make claims you cannot supoport.

You wrote the right wing "wants to deny a person the right to prevent an abortion (i.e birth control) or even the education to prevent one?"

I asked for an explanation but you have ducked the question (I think for good reason) and asked me one. Answer mine and then I will happily answer yours.

I ask, As Jed has asked "Who's doing that?"
---Warwick on 7/31/12


the most successful programs in stoping abortions are the program which allows a mother to see the baby via ultrasound ( NON INVASIVE), programs which enable mothers to give thier babies up for adoption, and program which tell parents about the help they an receive ( public housing, food stamps, medial care, continued education during and after the pregnancy. Programs which have to do with LOVE and CARE, not programs which have to do with Jail and legislation.

None of the threats and talks of the immoraly of abortion have done anything to stop abortions.
---francis on 7/31/12


Jed: The IUD prevents the fertilized egg from becoming implanted in the uterine wall, so that it passes out of the body, instead of growing into a baby.
---Trish on 7/31/12


\\Cluny, Maybe I have the wrong idea but I thought an IUD worked by preventing the sperm from joining with the egg? Isn't that basically the same principle as a condom?
---Jed on 7/30/12\\

Nope, not at all.

Basically the IUD sets up a low grade infection in the uterus (a stupid idea to start with, right?) that prevents implantation of the embryo.

What happens in some cases (such as a cousin) is, since nature will not be frustrated, the zygote implants in the tube or some other inappropriate place--ectopic pregnancy.

Thus, the IUD is clearly abortifacient.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/31/12


Cluny, Maybe I have the wrong idea but I thought an IUD worked by preventing the sperm from joining with the egg? Isn't that basically the same principle as a condom?
---Jed on 7/30/12




Just because one does not want to make abortions illegal, does not mean they support abortions. There are far better ways to reduce abortions than by legislation. What makes you think that if abortions were illegal that abortions would stop? It would be unsafe, but it would not stop. keeping abortion legal is a way to make it safe. Providing social services ( welfare) for individuals makes it more likely that they would keep thier child rather than abort.
If they have housing, medicaid, WIC, food stamps and such, and can have HOPE, they may want to keep their child.

Second, ANYTIME anyone knowinly performs a procedure, where the outcome will lead to loss of fetus,or zygot, it is an abortion. And that is what is given in Numbers 5
---francis on 7/31/12


\\\NurseRobert you wrote the right wing "wants to deny a person the right to prevent an abortion (i.e birth control) or even the education to prevent one?"\\

I'm a conservative and I've never been against either, though some forms of birth control are clearly abortifacient, such as the IUD and certain forms of the Pill. I will admit I'm against these.

Try again, Nurse Robert.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/30/12


It is not right to kill!!!
Whether it is a zygot, fetus, or baby it is NOT RIGHT.
it is also equaly NOT right to kill inocent adults
---francis on 7/30/12

Who is advocating for the killing of innocent adults? I don't think anyone believes in doing that. Interstingly though, in your last few posts you just tried to justify abortion by twisting scripture from the Bible. Now you admit that it is wrong? Are you sure you know what you believe?
---Jed on 7/30/12


NurseRobert you wrote the right wing "wants to deny a person the right to prevent an abortion (i.e birth control) or even the education to prevent one?"

I asked for an explanation but you have ducked the question (I think for good reason) and asked me one. Answer mine and then I will happily answer yours.

I ask, As Jed has asked "Who's doing that?"
---Warwick on 7/30/12


Jed, you are right, it sure is ironic. The left seems to place the rights of the criminal above the rights of the innocent.

If you can kill innocent, helpless children (for money or convenience of course) what philosophically stops you killing anyone?

I suppose someone will tell us it's a woman's body, a woman's choice, but the child is an individual, not part of the woman's body.

I believe there may be times when abortion is justified but the statistics show most are done for convenience. As one woman was heard to say-only two children will fit in the back of the Porsche, so this one had to go! Never heard of contraception or buying a bigger car?
---Warwick on 7/30/12


It is not right to kill!!!
Whether it is a zygot, fetus, or baby it is NOT RIGHT.

it is also equaly NOT right to kill inocent adults
---francis on 7/30/12


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It's kind of ironic. The same people who think it's okay to kill a perfectly innocent baby, are the same people who thing it's wrong to execute a convicted murderer who deserves it. Go ahead and crush that baby's skull and suck his brains out with a needle, but by golly you better show compassion to those rapists and murderers. That's the complete opposite of justice.

Then again, I guess I can see why an abortionist would empathize with a murderer.
---Jed on 7/30/12


So Warwick, you are pro death and pro life.

Do you believe that only the innocent get executed?
---NurseRobert on 7/30/12


How is it that the right wing is so against abortion, but also wants to deny a person the right to prevent an abortion (i.e birth control) or even the education to prevent one? --NurseRobert on 7/29/12

Who's doing that?
---Jed on 7/30/12


NurseRobert, I would imagine those who oppose abortion do so because it is murder.

You say the right-wing "wants to deny a person the right to prevent an abortion (i.e birth control) or even the education to prevent one?" I have never heard this. What do you base your belief upon?
---Warwick on 7/29/12


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Smitty, I am happy to answer your leading question. There is a case for the execution of murderers. However the left-wing of politics opposes this. Showing the madness of their thinking they champion the killing of the unborn. In fact some sections of the left promote the idea parents should have the right to kill their born children, if they wish.

In an abortion the only human sentenced to death is the only innocent party.

As Christians we are commanded not to murder.
---Warwick on 7/29/12


Trish as usual is correct, the president lifted restrictions but NO president can force the funding of abortions for the United Nations Population Fund as it is solely up to CONGRESS. And when the president lifted the restrictions he also said two important things Jeb missed.
1. he would work with CONGRESS to restore funding. So the stroke of the pen was a largely symbolic move to embolden the secular left.
2. and he would not rescind the executive order Bush signed on stem cell research.
Abortion is hideous and the question begs a pathetically obvious answer.
What was the point Jeb?
---larry on 7/29/12


How is it that the right wing is so against abortion, but also wants to deny a person the right to prevent an abortion (i.e birth control) or even the education to prevent one?
---NurseRobert on 7/29/12


Warwick - are you opposed to all premeditated killing of human beings or just of the unborn?
---Smitty on 7/29/12


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Speaking of abortions and missgarriages, I hope that all the anti abortion women know that if abortions are ever illegal that you will stand trial for abortion if you have a missgarriage. There will be an investigation, and you will be the prime suspect for abortion until you can prove in a court of law that is was a misscariage and not an abortion
---francis on 7/29/12

That is completely untrue. Francis, get back on your meds.
---Jed on 7/29/12


What's wrong with having an abortion Smitty? Only that it is the murder of a defenceless human.

I wonder what God thinks of this wholesale slaughter? Matthew 25:40 'And the King will answer them, "Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me."'
---Warwick on 7/29/12


Speaking of abortions and missgarriages, I hope that all the anti abortion women know that if abortions are ever illegal that you will stand trial for abortion if you have a missgarriage. There will be an investigation, and you will be the prime suspect for abortion until you can prove in a court of law that is was a misscariage and not an abortion
---francis on 7/29/12


---Jed on 7/28/12
When a procedure is initiated with the known outcome of the abortion/ loss of the embryo or fetus, it is an abortion.
When the ebryo or fetus is spontaneously aborted without any procudure being initiated that is a misscariage.

what you read about in Numbers five is a procedure which has a specific, intended, and known outcome of an aborted fetus if this woman is guilty of adultery.
---francis on 7/29/12


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Francis, what are you talking about? Numbers 5 in no way discribes an abortion. You really don't know the difference between a miscarriage and an abortion? I suggest you go back to high school and take health class again. There's a huge difference between having a miscarriage and intentionally killing your own child inside your womb through mechanical means. That's like saying death and murder are the same thing just because the end result is the same. It's very sick that you would twist the Bible to defend such a sinful and immoral act in this way. There is no truth in you.
---Jed on 7/28/12


What's wrong about having an abortion?
---Smitty on 7/28/12


---Jed on 7/28/12
Do you understand the relationship betwen HOPE and ABORTIONS?

2 Kings 6:25 And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.

2 Kings 6:28 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow.

2 Kings 6:29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.
---francis on 7/28/12


The reason why abortion is funded, is not to allow greater numbers of abortion to occur, But to ensure that the few which are pwerfeced are performed safely.

Abortions should be Legal, Rare, and safe!!!!

If you are opposed to abortions please read Numbers 5:This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled,

Is this not an abortion taking place in Numbers 5?
---francis on 7/28/12


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If christians as a group worldwide, would stop having abortions, there would be no need to have abortion funding
---francis on 7/28/12

Of course, if Christians world wide refused to fund this immoral act of abortion, then other christians would not be getting them. Just because someone is having an abortion does not mean there is a need for it to be funded, it just means there's a need for it to stop.
---Jed on 7/28/12


If christians as a group worldwide, would stop having abortions, there would be no need to have abortion funding
---francis on 7/28/12


You're hellbent on damning President Obama anyway you can, aren't you?
---Leon on 7/16/12

I'm with Jed. He's not Hell-bent though. Rather the opposite.
I pray as King David for this poser in command to lose the election.
We should encourage all who care about this country to pray for his losing the election. (Prayed against bc too if it makes you feel better. Was a lovely day when he was replaced with a real leader.
---Trav on 7/28/12


Jed:

"immoral conservative policies"? George W. Bush waged a war against Iraq he KNEW IN ADVANCE did not have WMD, showing that not only did he attack a country for no reason (other than to finish Daddy's war and make business for his oil buddies), but WMD was a hypocritical excuse to boot, as he didn't invade North Korea who he knew DID have WMD.

Or Senator Jan Brewer in Arizona who would rather shut down state health insurance altogether and lose millions of federal funds, rather than kick in a small amount of state funds to remain eligible. After all, state coffers are more important than health care for those who can't afford it. (I personally know at least one person who has died as a direct result of her policies).
---StrongAxe on 7/28/12


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Ford's Foreign Policy on Assassinations
by Daniel Schorr
---francis on 7/18/12


Exactly what I thought, Francis. You make baseless claims without any example of any of this stuff actually happening.
---Jed on 7/18/1
No jed it is you who seem to be ignorant about US foriegn policy

the Phoenix Program
---francis on 7/18/12


Exactly what I thought, Francis. You make baseless claims without any example of any of this stuff actually happening. You're obviously a product of liberal news media. You're just another empty mind letting other people tell you who conservatives are instead of actually forming your own opinions based on observation of facts.
---Jed on 7/18/12


"Trade policies that cause poverty in Panama, Africa, and South America."

Again, what policies?
---Jed on 7/17/12

Jed most Americans, and especially Evangelicals are ignorant as to American foriegn policy

In another post i boldy stated that the reason why Pat Robertson was confident in his call for Chavez's assasination, is because it was done before

I will not post names, but educate yourself, look again at Pat Robertsn speech, look at on recent conservities on foriegn assasinations
---francis on 7/18/12


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Again Francis, those are very broad acusations with no examples.

"Assasinations of foriegn leaders."

Please give some names of people who were unjustly assassinated by conservatives.

"Trade policies that cause poverty in Panama, Africa, and South America."

Again, what policies?

"Funding of right wing dictoators like Marcos, and Noriaga,then imprisoning them when they are no longer usefull to the United States"

Conservatives are agaist providing foreign aid to opressive countries. U.S. aid to oppressive nations has increased every time a liberal is in office. Today we fund hundreds of communist and oppressive countries like North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, and Egypt.
---Jed on 7/17/12


StrongAxe, immoral conservative policies like........?
---Jed on 7/17/12
Assasinations of foriegn leaders.
Trade policies that cause poverty in Panama, Africa, and South America.
Funding of right wing dictoators like Marcos, and Noriaga,then imprisoning them when they are no longer usefull to the United States
---francis on 7/17/12


StrongAxe, immoral conservative policies like........? Don't just make that claim without backing it up with specific examples.
---Jed on 7/17/12


The only thing we should be taxed on is for the good of taxpayers in this country not other countries. We should be taxed for health care for all and defense of our borders only. No giving millions to other countries.
We go into other countries to kill with tax money but have no tax money for health care/life.
---duane on 7/17/12


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Jed:

You said: I will not support a president who enacts these kinds of immoral liberal policies.

It comes down to which you find more distasteful - immoral liberal policies, or immoral conservative policies (since politicians on both sides do things not everybody likes).
---StrongAxe on 7/16/12


Ditto Trish! :)
---Leon on 7/17/12


Leon: Save yourself the trouble of arguing politics with Jed. I won't discuss it with him anymore. You aren't going to change his views, and he's not going to change yours.

I posted what I did, because the law says that funding for Planned Parenthood and other federally funded health care prohibits funding abortions. I'm not getting into the abortion debate with anyone. I believe if the federal government is going to forbid money going to abortions in this country, it should also forbid our money funding abortions in other countries.

I could be mistaken, but I believe that any policy that involves federal money going anywhere needs to be passed by the House and Senate, in addition to being signed by Obama.
---Trish on 7/16/12


This blog is really all about electing a president that's the flavor you like. That's it, isn't it Jed? :) You're hellbent on damning President Obama anyway you can, aren't you?
---Leon on 7/16/12

Umm, "flavor"? No Leon, you're the one who said you support Obama because of his race. I don't care what "flavor" the next president is. But I will not support a president who enacts these kinds of immoral liberal policies.
---Jed on 7/16/12


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Leon, so you're saying you support U.S. taxpayers funding abortions in other countries? I'm sure you won't answer that question as you have a way of attacking anyone who raises a concern with Obama's policies without actually addressing the policy being discussed on the blog. You did the same thing with the "African American's for Obama" blog. You called anyone who had a problem with Obama's action a "racist" while refusing to discuss the actual topic of the blog. If you have a reason for defending Obama's actions and policies, then let's hear it. But if you're just attacking anyone who has a problem with Obama's policies and you're just defending him without any clear reason that is really ignorant and stupid.
---Jed on 7/16/12


This blog is really all about electing a president that's the flavor you like.

---Leon on 7/16/12
really? And here I am thinking that this is about U.S. foriegn policy.
---francis on 7/16/12


'No. So, write to your Congressman or Senator to get it stopped.'
---Trish on 7/9/12

"I agree with that, in addition to electing a new president who won't enact these kinds of policies."
---Jed on 7/9/12


This blog is really all about electing a president that's the flavor you like. That's it, isn't it Jed? :) You're hellbent on damning President Obama anyway you can, aren't you?
---Leon on 7/16/12


Peter: You are so right. The reason people left Europe in the first place was for religious freedom. They were living in theocracies.

William Penn founded Pennsylvania to be open to people of all religions.
---Trish on 7/15/12


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---Peter on 7/15/12

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings, that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye, for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God on this behalf.

AMEN
---francis on 7/15/12


The book of Proverbs is full of references to leaders/rulers/kings and what their roles and responsibilities are as they govern peoples and the admonitions to be a righteous ruler verses a wicked ruler and what the outcome and consequences are for both.
In His loving grip
---Poppa_Bear on 7/15/12


Francis: 'Where does God favour demoncracy over dictatorship or mornachies?'

It is a good question, and in Scriptures there isn't any comment about it.

I could offer one IDEA, though - just an idea

The idea of 'freedom' is clearly a joke - we are not supposed to be free, we are to be under God. However, a democracy, or another ruling system that allows people more freedom, allows God the ability to be their ruler....

I say that from living in Cuba and in China - if you have a big meeting (10 people) to worship, the next day the police shows up, tells you that you can't dispense information without a licence
---Peter on 7/15/12


However, "we hold these truths to be self-evident". Meaning, they are obvious. God has given us a concious that tells us that freedom is right and tyranny is wrong.
---Jed on 7/11/12
Said the pilgrims to the Native Americans, Or the conolialist to the West Africans?
---francis on 7/12/12


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I think we can all agree that there should be no killing of anyone foriegn or domestic, baby or adult, who has done nothing to deserve the death penalty, and at that without two or more credible witness

Jed I respect your position both on the abortion issue and the general issue of killing.
---francis on 7/11/12


Francis, there is no place that I know of in the Bible where God tells us to have elected officials versus dictatorships. I don't know of anywhere in the Bible that outlines human rights as we know them. I also don't know of an verse in the Bible that tells us that all people are created equal. I don't know of any place in the Bible that says we as human beings should experience freedom from tyranny. However, "we hold these truths to be self-evident". Meaning, they are obvious. God has given us a concious that tells us that freedom is right and tyranny is wrong.
---Jed on 7/11/12


---Jed on 7/11/12
I READ YOU POST, GOOD POST

So where in the bible does God say we are to elect civil leaders?
Where does God favour demoncracy over dictatorship or mornachies?
---francis on 7/11/12


Francis, I agree with you about the manifest destiny thing. I don't think it is right to kill innocent people and take land that is rightly theirs. I do believe, however, that we should do our best to spread freedom to the rest of the world and save innocent lives, this may require killing terrorists and dictators. In response to your reference to President Chavez... I do not believe assassinating him would be justified since he is not acting as a brutal dictator. I do think we should encourage the Venezuelan people to elect leaders who will adopt a capitalist economy so that the citizens may enjoy the personal freedoms that capitalism brings. Although I here from many Venezuelans that they are actually less socialist than the U.S.
---Jed on 7/11/12


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---Jed on 7/11/12
I read you post.
Have you ever heard of Manifest Destiny?

Does Manifest Destiny ever take into account the inoscence of anyone.
---francis on 7/11/12


francis, I absolutely agree with you. american has much blood on her hands and God is not pleased either. we need to teach morality and know where our kids are. I really feel sorry for the kids growing up in todays world. they will really have a tough time. that is why they need a good foundation in Jesus Christ.
---shira4368 on 7/11/12


Francis, since you insist on discussion assassinations on this thread, I agree, we shouldn't make it a practice to do kill anyone. However, I do think there is a difference between killing a completely innocent human being that has never hurt anyone and bringing justice to a terrorist or dictator who has spent a lifetime killing and torturing others. If you are trying to compare and unborn baby to someone like Osama Bin Laden then I think you're a little out of touch. There's a difference between murdering an innocent baby killing one person to prevent the continued mass killings of many more. If you know of any innocent people our government has assassinated, then I agree that is immoral.
---Jed on 7/11/12


I think if Francis wants to discuss U.S. assassinations of terrorists and dictators then he should start a new blog to discuss that, instead of trying to justify one immoral action with another.
---Jed on 7/10/12
At what age should we allow the U.S gvernment to sponsor killing of people? In the womb or on the throne?

Maybe we should not have tax payer money go to killing anyone not the baby in the womb neither the man of the throne

Value life at all ages and atages
---francis on 7/10/12


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I think he just means that if we look at what the government DOES, there are so many bad things it does that we should not ONLY consider abortions. -Peter 7/10/12

I agree. Obviously there isn't enough space on one blog to look at everything the government does that is bad and immoral, since that is about everything the government does. So all we can do is tackle one issue at a time. And I think U.S. funded international abortions is a fairly important enough topic to discuss, especially since the person who did this is up for re-election. I think if Francis wants to discuss U.S. assassinations of terrorists and dictators then he should start a new blog to discuss that, instead of trying to justify one immoral action with another.
---Jed on 7/10/12


Jed: I think what Francis means is not that we should, or even that we should approve of it - I think he just means that if we look at what the government DOES, there are so many bad things it does that we should not ONLY consider abortions.

The morality of a government is NOT defined by one thing it does......
---Peter on 7/10/12


I hate to remind you of this fact. But U.S. tax payers often pay for assassination overseas. ---francis on 7/10/12

So what your saying is that because you feel U.S. tax dollars are already being used inappropriately in other countries, we should expand that by funding abortions in other countries as well? Why not just argue that we should stop funding the removal of terrorists and dictators instead of using that as an excuse to fund overseas abortions? Obviously you seem to think it is okay to force taxpayers to fund overseas abortions and that is why you are trying to shift focus to a totally unrelated use of taxpayer money that no one here is arguing for.
---Jed on 7/10/12


The question is if U.S. taxpayers should be forced to pay for abortions in other countries.
---Jed on 7/9/12

I hate to remind you of this fact. But U.S. tax payers often pay for assassination overseas.

It is because of this practice that Pat Robertson felt confident in requesting that assassination of Presedent Chavez.
---francis on 7/10/12


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The real problems is neither the US government nor the groups - it is the people who WANT the abortions.

And yet it would be better if the US government did not do that.

At least we don't do what other government do, and FORCE women to have abortions (I've been in one country where that is regularly done)
---Peter on 7/10/12


The government's job is not to legistale morality, but provide the environment where we can all choose our own moralities
---francis on 7/9/12

In this country, it is NOT the job of the Christian church to legislate morality. If that was the case, nonChristians could not "choose their own morality."
---NurseRobert on 7/9/12


Francis, this question is not about whether abortion should be legal or illegal in other nations, that's obviously not for our country to decide. The question is if U.S. taxpayers should be forced to pay for abortions in other countries.
---Jed on 7/9/12


If we let the government dictate what is and is not immoral where would we as christians be?

The government's job is not to legistale morality, but provide the environment where we can all choose our own moralities
---francis on 7/9/12


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"No. So, write to your Congressman or Senator to get it stopped."
---Trish on 7/9/12

I agree with that, in addition to electing a new president who won't enact these kinds of policies.
---Jed on 7/9/12


So, were dragging women kicking and screaming into clinics and forcing them to get abortions??
---NurseRobert on 7/9/12


No.

So, write to your Congressman or Senator to get it stopped.
---Trish on 7/9/12


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