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Who Is Mystery Babylon

Mystery Babylon has been brought up in another post, and that we are to come out from her. If any are to come out from her, it is imperative to understand who/what she is. Does she pertain to any organization(s), church(es), individuals, a thought system, or?

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 ---chria9396 on 7/18/12
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Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings:
Daniel 7:5 a second, like to a bear
Daniel 7:6 another, like a leopard,
Daniel 7:7 a fourth beast, and it had ten horns.


Revelation 13:1 a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns
Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard,.. a bear,.. a lion:
So revelation now gives us an amalgam of all these beast which is the Roman empire
---francis on 9/27/12


Let me paraphrase you and see if I understand you properly.

You said that Babylon merged into Roman Catholicism.

I asked you to prove your point.

You said that the Bible says this nowhere, and you cannot prove it from the Bible.
No I didn't I said " Interesting, I would be happy to prove it by holy scripture if you are interested."


clearly you didn't understand me properly which is peculiar because you quoted that which I wrote, then rewrote it the opposite of what I wrote, good grief are you hitting the bottle while writing today or did Kathr write that for you? Francis has provided you with the answer, thankyou Francis.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/26/12


You said that Babylon merged into Roman Catholicism.

I asked you to prove your point.

You said that the Bible says this nowhere, and you cannot prove it from the Bible.

Do I understand you properly?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/26/12

I CAN
Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come, and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

FVE FALLEN KINGS
1: Egypt
2: Assyria
3: Babylon
4: Medo-Persia
5: Greece

THE ONE THAT IS
6: Pagan Rome that percicuted christians

7: Christian rome, from which came the eighth PAPAL ROME
---francis on 9/26/12


\\I would be happy to prove it by holy scripture if you are interested. Your question is too broad based to answer in 125 words. If you have a specific question I would be happy to reply with scripture of course.\\

Let me paraphrase you and see if I understand you properly.

You said that Babylon merged into Roman Catholicism.

I asked you to prove your point.

You said that the Bible says this nowhere, and you cannot prove it from the Bible.

Do I understand you properly?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/26/12


Ralph Woodrow published a book claiming this. He did some research, and learned he had been deceived, and withdrew the book from circulation.

Never heard of the author and don't read books about God they are usually done for profit of the author, or are done for profit of the organization they want to promote, and would obviously contain error. One person decides he researched and it proves Gods word is wrong? Interesting, I would be happy to prove it by holy scripture if you are interested. Your question is too broad based to answer in 125 words. If you have a specific question I would be happy to reply with scripture of course.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/25/12




==. babylon merged into catholic religion. catholics are modern day babylon.==

You make these assertions, but you never prove them.

Ralph Woodrow published a book claiming this. He did some research, and learned he had been deceived, and withdrew the book from circulation.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/24/12


This mystery Babylon is future and it is Jewish dominated.

babylon has always represented the chaotic gentile nations with their many heathen gods and traditions and worship of these false gods. babylon merged into catholic religion. catholics are modern day babylon. The Jews never worshiped many false gods they simply don't believe the messiah has come yet. Comparing Jews to babylon is foolish and unfounded. The Jews were punished many times for following heathen nations and never learned their lesson. Just like todays Christianity many allow their false ministers to reason away Gods word in favor of following babylon traditions that all come from catholic religions adoption of these practices.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/24/12


The attempt to assign Babylon as being the apostate Christian Church is unfounded.

This mystery Babylon is future and it is Jewish dominated. The nations have become bankrupt by their savage and ferocious militarism. It only waits for the Jew to foreclose and he will have a kingdom over the kings of the earth (Rev.17:18).

The alliance of apostate Israel with the beast forms the Babylon of Revelations, and does not concern the elect body of Christ, which this book does not address at all.

It is written by John for the Jews of the last days. It is future and does not speak of the body of Christ anywhere in it.
---Phil on 9/23/12


\\revelation 17 describes mystery babylon is the universal church in rome\\

No, it doesn't.

Rome sits on NINE hills, not seven.

OTOH, both Jerusalem (which St. Paul called "the Jerusalem that now is and is in bondage with her children") and Mecca sit on seven hills.

There is only ONE people in the Bible that has been collectively described as a harlot--and it's Judaism after the flesh.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/22/12


"We cannot avoid what we are unaware of, or do not understand" Praise God,true.
and praise God it is He that reveals all truth, leads out of all that is false/antichrist and into His Truth. Continuing in faith, overcoming.
Lot, brought out of Sodom and Gomorrah, Wife looked back though told not to. Permitted to flee to Zoar, small town. Lot afraid to stay in Zoar so lived in caves. Zoar 6820, little, from 6819 prim root, to be small, ignoble, brought low, little one, be small. Ignoble, in a great house there are.noble and ignoble purposes. Purge the latter. Lot afraid to stay in Zoar, Anyone who sets hand to the plough and looking back, not fit for the kingdom. His work in, us, yielded. Christ in us, us in Christ.
---Chria9396 on 8/10/12




revelation 17 describes mystery babylon is the universal church in rome a system with its own traditions apart from Elohim. a system that adores their queen of heaven they named mary to coincide with the mother of the Christ child in Holy Scripture and rejects Gods Word in favor of their own book of words called their catechism this system demands its people to bow down serve their pope and give their minds over to the pope this system has replaced the Lord Jesus with their pope who is called a vicar and stands inplace of GOD. Scripture cleary identifies the god of this world is Satan the pope is standing in place of Satan who rules the earth until the son of perdition is revealed this system will fight the Lord Jesus when he returns
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/5/12


Wait, watch, and be ready.
---Steveng on 8/2/12


The term "lake of fire" is used only in Revelations (Jesus speaks of a "HELL of fire") and is from ancient Egyptian paganism (look online for LAKE OF FIRE wikipedia).

The book of Revelations was for the JUDAIZER Jews of the Council of Jerusalem (Messianic Jews accepted Jesus as the promised Messiah but did not have THE SPIRIT given in John 7:39, they still followed Mosaic law). Ezekiel 20:7, "the idols of Egypt".

Hosea 9:1 "you have played the harlot".

They angered God, were given over to the King of BABYLON (Ezra 5:12), and God divorced Israel ("decree of divorce", Jeremiah 3:8.)

This pertains to the modern secular 'church' that the Judaizer Jews named (Acts 11:26).
---more_excellent_way on 8/1/12


None of the books written by catholic ever made it into the bible.

the letters of peter and paul were already in circulation before the RCC came along
---francis on 7/30/

So were the Gospel of Peter, Thomas among others! what's your point? When and who decided which books belong in the Bible?
---Ruben on 7/31/12


None of the books written by catholic ever made it into the bible.

the letters of peter and paul were already in circulation before the RCC came along
---francis on 7/30/12


Don't forget also no nation would know:

1) The books of the Bible

2) About the Trinity
---Ruben on 7/30/12
nonesense
---francis on 7/30/12


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lets start with a very simple one:
If not for the RCC no nation would get christmas day as a holiday, no nation would know anything about easter, no nation would revere sunday as a special day to the lord

--francis on 7/30/12

Don't forget also no nation would know:

1) The books of the Bible

2) About the Trinity
---Ruben on 7/30/12


the Catholic Church has very little credibility these days. No nations are going to let themselves be lead anywhere by the Catholic Church. That's just silly.
---Smitty on 7/29/12
lets start with a very simple one:
If not for the RCC no nation would get christmas day as a holiday, no nation would know anything about easter, no nation would revere sunday as a special day to the lord

like The bible says, it is the religious influence of the RCC that is dangerious, the 7th head
---francis on 7/30/12


What if this was the Spiritual City, as Revelation shows us?

For Babylon was as Ninevah repentance coming to pass as the major empire decision unfolded, which Jonah was mad about...

The sign of Jonah.

605 BC + 2012 = 2617...

7 years x 365.2425 = 2556.6975 days/years...

example:

2617 - 2580 BC Pharaoh Khufu = 37.


2580 - 2556.6975 = 60.3025...

1948 + 60.3025 = 2009...

+ 13 extra month...
---yohannes_estoniesque on 7/30/12


---aka on 7/19/12 Thank you aka, and amen.
---joseph on 7/20/12 Thank you joseph, it is indeed a blessing and honor to share whatever the Father gives. Truth that has been posted has had impact, and is much as Id thought, Mystery Babylon being a name or title which encompasses those truths.

---aka on 7/20/12 And thank you again. (Just noticed this post) Would like to respond further, much in process

Blessings
---chria9396 on 7/29/12


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The fourth beast of Daniel is Rome which was different since it started out as a Republic before become ruled by an Cesar. The teeth were made of iron which points to the iron legions of rome.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/29/12


Francis - the Catholic Church has very little credibility these days. No nations are going to let themselves be lead anywhere by the Catholic Church. That's just silly.
---Smitty on 7/29/12


---glen on 7/29/
Beast(s) are nations, kingdoms,
Harlots are unfaithful women
or women which lead men astray into adultery

So the beast is a nation ( ROME), and the harlot is the church that rules ( rides) this nation( RCC)

sorry if I said differently
---francis on 7/29/12


cluny

Why should the fourth be any different?

because daniel says so!

francis

it still seems that you are saying that the beast and the harlot are the same thing which doesn't make sense, aren't they 2 different things?
---glen on 7/29/12


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God said that the 4th beast would be different:
Daniel 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others,

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms,

Here is one way in which the 4th beast is different

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS ( of God):

It is the 4th beast RELIGIOUS ACTIONS that makes it so different
---francis on 7/28/12


The Muslim world will have to get its own political act together before it can attempt to take over the rest of the world. That's a long way off, not in my lifetime.
---Smitty on 7/28/12


\\Who could the 4th beast be anyway?
---glen on 7/27/12\\

A mahometan confederacy.

After all, the first three beasts of Daniel involved historical, geographical Babylon, which is sitting in the middle of where mahometans live.

Why should the fourth be any different?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/28/12


---glen on 7/27/12
After the political downfall of Rome,it was the Papal form of Rome that ruled the world. The Pope anointed many kings including Charlemagne, from who we get the phrase "revided Roman Empire." Many kings rulled in the name of the RCC.

In addition to this political power, the RCC also adopted many pagan teachings and spread throught the world.

Lent, Christmas, Easter, and even sunday as a day fo congregational worship are doctrine not known to any of the apostles. These doctrines are only held up in contrast to the word of God by people whom the RCC referrs to as " church fathers." None of which were apostles

It is mainly through religious influence that Rome has devoured the world
---francis on 7/28/12


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aka - your point is well taken and I agree.
---Smitty on 7/28/12


\\I am certain the Catholic Church, with its record of impeccable morals and its great influence on events in our world today, will soon be ruler over all, as the book of Revelation predicts.
---Smitty on 7/28/12\\

But Revelation does not predict this. This is merely projecting a post-Reformation reading onto it.

All you are saying is that you're convinced of what you've heard repeated over and over again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/28/12


smitty, atheists and agnostics come and go. they usually spend their time making sarcastic (albeit humorous) statements. but sarcasm is not rooted in joy, but in anger and is a poor avenue of communication. i guess you (plural) don't feel like your being heard.

however, as a group, you are not alone. there are many "christians" like that too.
---aka on 7/28/12


I am certain the Catholic Church, with its record of impeccable morals and its great influence on events in our world today, will soon be ruler over all, as the book of Revelation predicts.
---Smitty on 7/28/12


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cluny

Rome hasn't dominated the whole earth yet but i think it might happen in the future

I believe the western world is basically descended from rome and it hasn't come far off to dominating the world

Rome "appears" to be mortally wounded, but maybe it really isn't yet

Who could the 4th beast be anyway?
---glen on 7/27/12


francis

Thats why i said the harlot could be a figurative city, because it existed long before Rome ever did, the baal, queen of heaven didn't just go to rome but everywhere, hindus, and other religions

Plus i don't see how rome can be both the 7th head AND the harlot at the same time it doesn't make sense

Papal rome hasn't been around for only a "short space" so i can't see how it can be the 7th head
---glen on 7/27/12


Babel Hebr. for confusion. God wants us to come out of confusion, get into his word and be enlightened to the truth which is opposite of confusion.
Babylon is the fountain head of all idolatry and false teachings, leading to confusion.
---David on 7/27/12


Mary the mother of God seems a much more pleasant character than God himself.
---Smitty on 7/27/12


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---glen on 7/27/12
Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead [their] dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Even today the proper name for Mary is: Holy Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven

It is from the queen of Heaven tradition that we get Easter

From the worship of Tammuz we get our Lent, Ezekiel 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which [was] toward the north, and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

From Baal sunworship we get Sunday as " the lord's day"

What apostacy has the world gotten from israel?
---francis on 7/27/12


\\Are you talkingto me, or to God? because it was God who said:
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the WHOLE EARTH, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces\\

But Rome did not and does not dominate the whole earth.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/27/12


francis

I'm not sure if apostate jerusalem is the harlot just a possible theory that i have

Another one is that the harlot is some kind of figurative city that covers the whole globe

But i don't think it's papal rome

the 7th head of the beast is clearly a separate entity to the harlot who sits on it, how can they both be the same thing?
---glen on 7/27/12


As for treading down the whole earth, i should point out that the people who have virtually taken over the world recently both militarily, economically, and culturally has been western nations descended from western europe

Great britain (the sun never set on it's empire), spain, portugal, france, and recently the US

Just look at how much land mass they have covered, and the influence they have and it's not even the time of the beast empire yet!

Personally i think the 7th head was the nazi regime with it's massive persecution of the jews, followed by the state of israel being formed
coincidence?
---glen on 7/27/12


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There's nothing in the book of Daniel about Rome. He was writing about Alexander the Great and Antiochus IV.
---Smitty on 7/26/12


The Roman Empire NEVER dominated the entire world.

Try again.
---Cluny on 7/26/12
Are you talkingto me, or to God? because it was God who said:
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the WHOLE EARTH, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces

not me
---francis on 7/26/12


\\Only Rome dominated the world. israel was conqoured many times and Judism is not world wide\\

WRONG!

The Roman Empire NEVER dominated the entire world.

Try again.

Besides, Rome sits on NINE hills, but Jerusalem sits on 7.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/26/12


Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH

Only Rome dominated the world. israel was conqoured many times and Judism is not world wide

Rome has conquored the Rom is two phases
Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come, and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

( Egypt, Assyria, babylon, Medo-persia, Grece) all had fallen, The sixth was Pagan form of Rome which conquored much of the world. The Seventh is the deadlies Papal form of Rome who spread it's ABOMINATIONS all over the world
---francis on 7/26/12


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Another thing

the harlot is said to sit on seven mountains

I believe these are egypt,assyria,babylon,persia,greece and rome plus a future kingdom

Israel/jerusalem has been under the control of these empires in the past (the beast carries her), and the church of rome has only existed since after the fall of ancient rome
---glen on 7/26/12


The problem i see with the church of rome being the harlot is that it was never a faithful true church in the first place, jerusalem on the other hand has been and become a harlot

there are numerous passages about this

I currently see the vatican as the false prophet, 2 horns = church and state, 2nd beast = future pope

Vatican = city of prophecy
---glen on 7/25/12


This is NOT hard to figue out at all:

1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you,

Peter was actually writing from Rome. babylon at that time was a CRYPTIC name for Rome

A Woman is also a symbolic name for church, in the case of MYSTERY is was an apostate church of Rome
---francis on 7/21/12


Mystery Babylon is explained by the angel (Rev. 19:7) so keep reading and you will see who and what she is. In Rev 17:18 we learn that she is a great city which rules over the kings (leaders) of the earth. This city will soon begin its reign. It is called Jerusalem. In Rev. chapter 18 God's people are called out of her and she is attacked and destroyed in one hour by those she ruled over. Rev. 17:15-17. The beast she rides and is led by is none other than Satan himself. Rev. 17:8.
---barb on 7/21/12


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I do not think MB a specific place, or 1 denomination, rather what characterizes Babylon. We are being conformed to the image of Christ, so any other image/characteriztion, has no place in us. ---chria9396 on 7/20/12

beautiful...

everything temporal has an eternal match and a spiritual anti-match.

IN us...

the Image of God or the image of Babylon.

IN us...

the Spirit of God or the spirit of the world.

"Out from" and In to...

In Rev...could it be the seat of the world system... could it be the anti-New Jerusalem?

men are fighting for current Jerusalem. New Jerusalem will replace it.
---aka on 7/20/12


Beautifully stated Chria. I look forward to any further insight the Father blesses you with concerning this subject. For I agree completely that an understanding of this is imperative. We can not avoid what we are unaware of, or do not understand. Thank you for sharing. Be blessed.
---joseph on 7/20/12


Joseph, my views are still forming. At one time, I had heard/thought that 1 church was MB. I wont name, Ive seen others do so, but do not wish to bring accusations against any sincere believer within any denomination. My former understanding of Babylon was simply a pagan place/people, idolatry, to be avoided, renounced if one had any affiliation. In Daniel, mystery is hidden, secret as in King Nebuchadnezzars dream, which God alone was able to reveal to Daniel. I do not think MB a specific place, or 1 denomination, rather what characterizes Babylon. We are being conformed to the image of Christ, so any other image/characteriztion, has no place in us.
---chria9396 on 7/20/12


I just came to correct and add to a response I wrote, but it's not here.
Instead, for now, "Come out of her, MY PEOPLE,"
'her', meaning Babylon, To be pure, set apart, Holy,overcome (babylon opposite of these)
all the work of God, to His praise and glory,,,
---chria9396 on 7/20/12


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Chria i would like to hear your views concerning this.
---joseph on 7/20/12


i think it is just that...a mystery. take care of what you can today. you will know it when you know it.
---aka on 7/19/12


Some English translations say that a "mysterious name" was on the harlot's forehead.
---Cluny on 7/18/12

So then it is not "mystery babylon," but rather "mystery," "babylon."
---francis on 7/18/12


\\Is the phrase mystery babylon or are they two seperate words\\

In Greek, the word "mystery" modifies "name," not "Babylon."

Some English translations say that a "mysterious name" was on the harlot's forehead.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/12


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We are told that the harlot sits on seven hills. Jerusalem sits on seven hills.

The principal book Jews study is not the Bible, but the BABYLONIAN Talmud.

Furthermore, there is only one people in the Bible repeatedly characterized as a harlot and adultress, and it's not Rome.

Connect the dots.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/12


Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Let me emphasis the COMMA between mystery and babylon,
and ask should it be there?

Is the phrase mystery babylon or are they two seperate words
---francis on 7/18/12


I understand that Babylon means this whole world's evil system of Satan. And it has a lot of different people and groups and ways of thinking. Basically, to get out and stay out means to deny oneself and take up one's cross and follow Jesus (Luke 9:23-24) . . . so that this evil world can't get us concerned about what it will do to us or what claims it can do for us. Very important is that our attention needs to be to God and where He guides our attention. So, this world has lots of ways to get our attention away from God and how God rules us in His peace in our hearts (Colossians 3:15). One trick is to get us to think we can control this evil world. But > 2 Timothy 2:4.
---willie_c: on 7/18/12


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