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Capitalism Or Socialism

Which economic system is more moral, Capitalism or Socialism?

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 ---Jed on 7/18/12
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What i see, espeially today, are kind hearted liberls, people who are willing to use the wealth of the nation to help the poorest of people ---francis on 7/25/12

Well, Francis, I'm sorry you are suffering from these dilusions. Can't really help you there.

Trish, the founders were the farthest thing from socialists. The closest thing to the founders today are the tea partiers. You crack me up.
---Jed on 7/25/12


Jed: Speaking of the founders. When the Pilgrims landed in the New World, they needed the help of the natives, AND they worked together to survive. Not one of them could say that they survived by their own hard work, Also, I'm pretty sure they probably had a Socialist type of government.

As for Europe, my missionary friends live in France, and they are free to travel in and out of the country. They have religious freedom, ministering the Gospel to the Muslims in Marseille. Yet, they have Socialized medicine. The same is true for Great Britain.
---Trish on 7/25/12


Government FOR the people, OF the people, and BY the people.

And WE THE PEOPLE, the kind hearted liberts who voted in our government officials demand that they use our taxes to help the poor, and if you do not like it leave our country
---francis on 7/25/12


Francis, I fail to see anywhere in those scriptures you posted that Jesus supported government control and redistribution of wealth by government, rather than individuals looking out for eachother.
---Jed on 7/24/12
You know, I am yet to see a robot run the government

What i see, espeially today, are kind hearted liberls, people who are willing to use the wealth of the nation to help the poorest of people

there are MANY people like me, liberals, who pay our fair share of taxes HOPING that the givernment will take some of it for WIC, medicaid, mediare, givernment housing, school lunches and so on
---francis on 7/25/12


Jed: Most of Western Europe has some sort of Socialism, yet remain free.
---Trish on 7/25/12

Trish, they are not free. They are no more free than the founders were when they began this nation. You think having the money you earned forcibly taken from you and given to someone else is freedom? Strange definintion of freedom.
---Jed on 7/25/12




Many understand neither the meaning of "moral" nor of "socialism". Morality is not based on individual emotions as the atheists assume, but rather on the word of God. The Bible exhalts man's status to the image of God himself, and makes him answerable to God individually on questions of morality. He is individually - not collectively - commanded "Thou shalt not kill", "Thou shalt not steal", etc.

Socialism, from Plato's "Republic" to More's "Utopia" to Hobbs' "Leviathan", to Marx' "Communist Manifesto" always has one overarching characteristic - individual liberty must be quashed for the good of the collective. Such is not the government of God!
---jerry6593 on 7/25/12


Neither Jesus nor the Apostles COMMANDED that everyone live under socialism. All giving was to be completely voluntary. When a government STEALS from one person by force and gives it someone who will not work, it violates at least two Bible principles, and is thus immoral. Further, to force someone to participate in an immoral act (taxpayer-funded abortion) against their will is immoral.

We have examples of socialist "utopias" on earth:

Nazi Germany
Stalin's Soviet Union
Mao Tse Tung's China
Castro's Cuba.

Does anyone here call them MORAL?


---jerry6593 on 7/25/12


Jed: Most of Western Europe has some sort of Socialism, yet remain free.
---Trish on 7/25/12


Francis, I fail to see anywhere in those scriptures you posted that Jesus supported government control and redistribution of wealth by government, rather than individuals looking out for eachother. You seem not to understand what socialism is. Socialism is not individuals being generous and looking out for eachother out of their own free will as Jesus advocated. That could only happen in a free society. Socialism is government control of the economy and government forcing people to give money against their will to people who probably are better off than them. Capitalism is people freely sharing it with the truly needy on their own generosity. Jesus in no way advocated socialism. Saying that he did is blasphemy to say the least.
---Jed on 7/24/12


socialism, capitolism, or comunism etc. it does not mateer in the case of a believer because we belong to a theocratic government. That is we are governed by God and his word and we are to apply his to our lives here on earth regardless of what earthly government we find ourselves under
---Derrick_Gooden on 7/24/12




Murse, I'm not against government. I'm against socialism.
---Jed on 7/24/12

Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

Acts 4:35 And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Acts 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, [and] of the country of Cyprus,

Acts 4:37 Having land, sold [it], and brought the money, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.

are you really against socialism or do you not know what it is
---francis on 7/24/12


Murse, I know what socialism is, it seems you don't. Socialism is a very broad term but here are some characteristics of a socialist economy.

Goverment investment and ownership in business is socialism.

Government management of the economy is socialism.

Re-distribution of wealth is socialism.

Government provision of human needs is socialism.

Management and control over the activities of enterprise is socialism.

Replacing self-management and self-governance in the free market and economy with goverment regulations is socialism.

What did you think socialism was?
---Jed on 7/24/12


Jed, I honestly believe you don't know what socialism is..
---NurseRobert on 7/24/12


Murse, I'm not against government. I'm against socialism.
---Jed on 7/24/12


Okay Murse, you've just lost all credibility. I never said I was anti-government.
---Jed on 7/23/12

Jed, the directions of your posts (including your newest blog) all lead the reader to believe you have anti-government sentiments. Perhaps I'm wrong. Seems we all like to jump to conclusions on this site..

---NurseRobert on 7/24/12


francis,
I'm not claiming anything.
Those figures are directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).
---micha9344 on 7/23/12
I will acept this figures, and adjust my statement

Are you telling me that you are unaware that we have had 22 not 27 monhs of Job creation.

Are you unaware that GM is now the number 1 car maker?

Are you unaware that Bin Ladin is dead?

are you unaware that the wear in Iraq is over?

Are you unaware that we are drilling for oil more today than ever before?

Are you unaware of the new health care law?

So what is you basis for voting if you do not have the facts?
---francis on 7/21/12
---francis on 7/24/12


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Jed: I agree with NurseRobert. Your constant, incessant anti-government rants have been so excessively extreme one can only believe that you are most definitely anti-government.

And for pity's sake, give the anti-Obama rants a rest. There is absolutely nothing anyone can say that will change a Democrat's vote, and you are already preaching to the choir with the Republicans. All you are accomplishing is a lot of bearing false witness, and smearing a man you should be praying for.
---Trish on 7/23/12


Okay Murse, you've just lost all credibility. I never said I was anti-government.
---Jed on 7/23/12


francis,
I'm not claiming anything.
Those figures are directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).
I urge you to stop being deceived and disseminating false information less you yourself be found a liar.
Even worse, a hypocrit, pushing the Ten Commandments on others while not finding the truth for yourself.
Please don't be this way for the sake of the name of Christ you bear, even as an SDA.
---micha9344 on 7/23/12


Yes, Jed, thats exactly what Im saying. Perhaps you can suspend the rhetoric and show me differently. And it wasnt from "liberal media sites" it was from the Bureau of Labor Statistics website. Unemployment rates have been reported the same way since Roosevelt was President.

Your anti-Obama and anti- Government paranoia is really beginning to affect you.
---NurseRobert on 7/23/12


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Nurse Roberts, you're not actually suggesting that the unemployment rate is calculated the same way for Obama as it was for Bush? You need a serious reality check. Most people without jobs have been unemployed for so long now that they aren't even included in the unemployment rate, this was not the case under Bush. But since you want to scew the unemployment rate by using calculations from liberal media sites, I thought it best just to look at the fact that there are FAR fewer people working today and far more people on welfare and disability than during the Bush years. That's what the unemployment rate is supposed to reflect anyways. Of course, when calculated by liberals, it doesn't reflect those facts at all.
---Jed on 7/23/12


Jed, YOU were the one who threw up the red herring about the "real" unemployment rate. And you were the one who insunated the unemployment rate was wrong.

So we should sit by and let you put out false infomration?
---NurseRobert on 7/23/12


Hey, you guys can argue about what defines the unemployment rate all you want and define it however you want. Noone can agree on what the unemployment rate really is or how we should define it. So let's look at it in terms of actual job numbers. There are FAR fewer jobs now than there were when Obama took office and during Bush's presidency. That is a simple fact. Any "job creation" that Obama claims are hypothetical jobs, not real jobs.

But we are so off topic. The question is which economic system is more moral. Capitalism, in which everyone is responsible for earning their own survival, or Socialism, in which the reward for one person's labor is redistributed to non-working people.
---Jed on 7/23/12


--micha9344 on 7/23/12

Your comments are laughable at best.
You are actually claiming job increase during President George Bush's term?
---francis on 7/23/12


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Ever since Roosevelt was president, the BLS reported the official unemployment rate - the U3. When unemployment comes up, repubs like to say the number is MUCH higher, and quote U6 (U3 + the underemployed or those no longer looking). So lets look at repubs numbers, using the same argument:

Reagan: Reported: 7.4% (1984), other number: 20%
Bush II: Reported: 7.8% (2008), other number: 14.2%
Obama: Reported: 8.2% (4/12), other number: 14.2%

Seems Obamas numbers are close to Bush and even better than Reagan.

Simple, Jed, you cant have it both ways. The U3 is the official unemployment number and to spout other numbers is disingenuous.
---NurseRobert on 7/23/12


Do we want to go back to 22 months of Job lost and outsourceing?-francis on 7/22/12
There you go lying again...
Remember you're an SDA,which pushes the obedience to the Ten Commandments?
How quickly you divert the attention away from your "exaggeration" only to post another lie.
Bush never had 22 consecutive months job loss, or are you thinking of the 37 consecutive months of job gain between Sep-03 and Sep-06?
Over the course of 8 years 2001-2008,jobs increased from 132.5m to 134.4m with a peak at 138m.
From 2009-current, jobs have decreased from 134.4m to 132.8m with a low of 129.2m.
That is almost 10m lost jobs.
So practice what you preach and honor the 9th Commandment.
---micha9344 on 7/23/12


has anyone read the 69 lies obama told? well it is worth reading. If you watch fox news you already know them.
---shira4368 on 7/23/12


Fact is this, real unemployment is almost twice what it was when Obama was elected. Cold hard fact.
---Jed on 7/22/12

Gee, Jed... did we forget to mention this when the Repubs were in office? Of is this just a bash Obama thing?
---NurseRobert on 7/23/12


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Fact is this, real unemployment is almost twice what it was when Obama was elected. Cold hard fact.
---Jed on 7/22/12


This only shows at most 22 months if you count May, June, and July 2012.
---micha9344 on 7/22/12

22 Months of Job growth,
and that is bad because?

There are No good arguements for not voting for president Obama. 22 Month of Job grown is a BIG BIG turn around from what was going on under the last president

Do we want to go back to 22 months of Job lost and outsourceing?
---francis on 7/22/12


Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2010 -40 -35 189 239 516 -167 -58 -51 -27 220 121 120
2011 110 220 246 251 54 84 96 85 202 112 157 223
2012 275 259 143 68 77(P) 80(P)
-Bureau of Labor Statistics
Data extracted on: July 22, 2012 (10:01:49 AM)
This only shows at most 22 months if you count May, June, and July 2012.
Exaggeration is still a lie.
May we hear about the Ten Commandments from you again?
Are you deceiving or just being deceived?
---micha9344 on 7/22/12


If the Democrat Party is the party of Satan, and if most African Americans are Democrats, it follows that most African Americans are satanists. That's what Jerry is telling us.
---Smitty on 7/22/12


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This can be shown by the US Dept of Labor website.
---micha9344 on 7/21/12
show it then
---francis on 7/22/12


If God is never taken by surprise by anything, he must have planned everything out in detail from the beginning, including of course Obama's presidency and Eve's meal.
---Smitty on 7/22/12


Jed: Give it up. You'll never convince a liberal to act like a Christian. Indeed, it is impossible for a true Christian to be a Democrat. The Democrat Party is the Party of Satan. They use his methods and promote his perverse lifestyle.


---jerry6593 on 7/22/12




Actually God did not want a KING in Israel to begin with. God wanted to be their King. It was the people who wanted a KING just like the other nations had. So God let them have what they wanted..a king....Saul.

Before Kings, there were Judges and it was all just fine then too.

---kathr4453 on 7/22/12


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God is not taken by surprise! Get it!
---wes on 7/21/12


It just may be that God was taken by surprise when Obama was elected, just as he was when Eve ate the forbidden fruit.
---Smitty on 7/21/12


just like saul in the old testiment. God wanted a christian in office but the people put saul as king.
---shira4368 on 7/21/12

WRONG
God choose Saul:
1 Samuel 9:15 Now the LORD had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying, To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me.

1 Samuel 10:24 And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king.
---francis on 7/21/12


The president either gets credit for or blamed for job growth, or the lack thereof.
---Trish on 7/21/12


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There is a big difference between being in office while things are happening and making them happen.
First of all, the job growth is not 27 consecutive months. This can be shown by the US Dept of Labor website.
Secondly, the President has little or no control over many of the things on francis' list, alot of which are business related and consumer controlled, not government related or controlled.
Another example shown of Hypocrisy: telling someone to get their facts straight when his or her facts are not.
Are you deceiving yourself and/or others or are you just being deceived?
---micha9344 on 7/21/12


Francis, then why hasn't he done any of this?
---Jed on 7/20/12
Are you telling me that you are unaware that we have had 27 monhs of Job creation.

Are you unaware that GM is now the number 1 car maker?

Are you unaware that Bin Ladin is dead?

are you unaware that the wear in Iraq is over?

Are you unaware that we are drilling for oil more today than ever before?

Are you unaware of the new health care law?

So what is you basis for voting if you do not have the facts?
---francis on 7/21/12


God didn't put obama in office. just like saul in the old testiment. God wanted a christian in office but the people put saul as king. muslims may have put obama in office and I believe they did.we gave a sweet black lady in our church and I had about 10 books that outlined obamas 69 lies. she ask me what lie he told. she really didn't know. I gave her one of my books and she left it lying in her pew.
---shira4368 on 7/21/12


President Obama was put in by God for such a time as this:
To:
1: bring back manufacturing Job
27 strait months of Job growth.

2: Make GM once again to NUMBER ONE auto manufacturer

3: More drilling for oil that ever before

4:Justice for 9/11

5: End the war in iraq

6: Help people with pre existing condition get health care AND health insyrance

7: Make the image of the USA once again favourable throught the world
---francis on 7/20/12

Francis, then why hasn't he done any of this?
---Jed on 7/20/12


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I have found, in your case, you would complain about any democrat who was elected to President, so I take what you say with a grain of salt.
---NurseRobert on 7/20/12

Umm, yeah. Because I'm against all that progressive liberals stand for. I don't like socialism and communism because it isn't right. I don't vote for them so I have a right to complain about them. The ones who vote for them, or as you pointed out, don't vote at all, deserve what they have coming.
---Jed on 7/20/12


The only people that don't have a right to complain about Obama are the ones who voted for him. ---Jed on 7/20/12


Not true, Jed..Those who didn't vote at all have no right to complain, unless you happen to be one of the legal citizens dumped from the voter rolls "by mistake".

I have found, in your case, you would complain about any democrat who was elected to President, so I take what you say with a grain of salt.
---NurseRobert on 7/20/12



---Rob on 7/20/12
Very very true. No political party can ever have the moral high ground because they have within them men who are interested in self.
---francis on 7/20/12


President Obama was put in by God for such a time as this:
To:
1: bring back manufacturing Job
27 strait months of Job growth.

2: Make GM once again to NUMBER ONE auto manufacturer

3: More drilling for oil that ever before

4:Justice for 9/11

5: End the war in iraq

6: Help people with pre existing condition get health care AND health insyrance

7: Make the image of the USA once again favourable throught the world
---francis on 7/20/12


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If I understand the bible right, it was God who put Obama in the White House. So don't complain.
---Smitty on 7/19/12

Funny, I thought voters did that. The only people that don't have a right to complain about Obama are the ones who voted for him. They deserve what they got coming.
---Jed on 7/20/12


If I understand the bible right, it was God who put Obama in the White House. So don't complain.
---Smitty on 7/19/12

You are not mistaken, Smitty.
---Phil on 7/20/12


Francis, I am a war veteran and have been to other countries. I have seen first hand what Americans consider poverty, others would consider luxury.

In the past I have been Republican, and I have been Democrat. I am now unaffiliated because both political parties are full of corrupt politicians.
---Rob on 7/20/12


If I understand the bible right, it was God who put Obama in the White House. So don't complain.
---Smitty on 7/19/12


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---Darlene_1 on 7/19/12
Thanks I agree only God can be trsted.

The fact here is, unless you have lives ( not visited, not served in the armed forces) overseas, youjust would not know how life for other people are.

i gave one example of a very good socialist leader. There are others. from time to tome France has socialist government.
---francis on 7/19/12


francis your post on paradise the 7-18 was interesting. The big difference in God and any human leader is we know we can trust God to do things for our good but we can't trust a leader of our Country to do that.
---Darlene_1 on 7/19/12


talk to any demoncrat/ liberal. pregressive, and they will tell you that president Obama is NOT God. he is flawed.

God could never have such big ears
---francis on 7/19/12


Socialism is corrupt human government meant to fleece the masses for the sake of a few. It is God's instrument to fulfil His purposes.

Capitalism, the free interplay of unregulated commerce, is not a form of government. When controlled and regulated by government, is tends towards fascism, and corporate favoritism. It is oppressive. This too, is an instrument in the hand of
God, and under His control.
---Phil on 7/19/12


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Do you suggest we allow Obama to set himself up as god?
---Jed on 7/18/12

What is it about president Obama that makes some christians ( republicans) think that he is God?
---francis on 7/19/12


What we really need is a strong and respected aristocracy, but such is not possible, considering today's wretched humanity.
---Smitty on 7/19/12


My only hope is an act of God to bring revival upon our land and see the progressive liberals become saved.
---Jed on 7/18/12
Our only HOPE should be in Christ who has translated us out of this present evil world. The LAST thing on God's mind is saving the Democrats so that America can PROSPER financially.

Let's enjoy the Riches and Liberty we have in Christ that no man can take away.

Laodicea was a very wealthy place, and as we see in scripture, that wealth blinded the eyes of those who actually believed they were being blessed by God through their worldly riches. WRONG!
---kathr4453 on 7/19/12


Right wingers cant defeat Obama on the merits, so instead fall back on the same old tired old personal attacks. If he wins a second term (which it appears he will), what kind of excuse are they going to come up with then?
---NurseRobert on 7/19/12


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I don't know how the damage that has occured in the last 3 years will ever be undone.
---Jed on 7/18/12

I agree, I mean what are we going to do about these manufacturing jobs that are comming back?

What are we going to do about GM once again becoming the number ONE car manufacturer?

What are we going to do about all these people under 36 who are still on thier parents insurance?

What are we going to do about Osama B ladin?

What are we going to do now that the war in Iraq is over?
---francis on 7/19/12


Systems are not moral, people are....Morality is not about systems, it is about people
---francis on 7/18/12


YES!
---atheist on 7/18/12


Jed, maybe god will get as mad as you and hit Obama with one of those lightning bolt things.


The last three years,---how about the eight years before that?

Did you brilliant analysis of history begin only three years ago?
---atheist on 7/18/12


I don't know how the damage that has occured in the last 3 years will ever be undone. Even if we were to elect a true conservative, the poison has already infected the minds of millions of Americans. Before Obama got elected I don't remember anyone openly confessing to being a socialist. Socialism was a dorogatory word even for democrats. Now, we have democrats crawling out of the wood work openly professing to being socialists! Now people like Trish and Francis are proudly declaring socialism over capitalism! It's just sickening. My only hope is an act of God to bring revival upon our land and see the progressive liberals become saved.
---Jed on 7/18/12


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jed, he already thinks he is a god. hannity even calls him the annointed one....and it fits him perfectly. disgusting to say the least. He could have been a good president but george soros made sure he wasn't.
---shira4368 on 7/18/12

Francis, the earth is not the Kingdom of God. Do you suggest we allow Obama to set himself up as god?
---Jed on 7/18/12

silly rabbits, tricks are for kids
---francis on 7/18/12


Capitalism has its abuses - the have's abusing the have not's

Socialsim has its abuses - the government abusing the have's, and the have not's abusing the government.

Balance is the key - reward those who desire to prosper, help those who can't. Refuse to feed those who refuse to work.

stop acting like it's a crime to prosper.
---James_L on 7/18/12


jed, he already thinks he is a god. hannity even calls him the annointed one....and it fits him perfectly. disgusting to say the least. He could have been a good president but george soros made sure he wasn't.
---shira4368 on 7/18/12


both systems are perfect in theory. it is the daily practical application of the principles that causes moral concerns. the pilgrams for example, they had the first thanksgiving after they started diving up land and taking personal ownership of their land to grow crops. in ussr and china the community farms were managed horribly and thus signifcantly produced less crops to the point of starvation. In socalistic economies the state is the god and everything is for the state. Thus socalism leaves out the personal desire to succeed and advance. thus you do not work hard or improve yourself. capitalism is the exact opposite where you can forget about the person beside you and it be all about you advancing at the expense of someone else.
---Scott1 on 7/18/12


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Do you suggest we allow Obama to set himself up as god?
---Jed on 7/18/12
What are you, one of those republican who watch fox and listen to Rush limbough?

How on earth did you get anything about President Obama being set up as God from any of my posts?

It is fasinating that when your brand of republican here OBAMA they think GOD
---francis on 7/18/12


Francis, the earth is not the Kingdom of God. Do you suggest we allow Obama to set himself up as god?
---Jed on 7/18/12


Francis: Amen.
---Trish on 7/18/12


From every concievable veiwpoint, the kingdom of God is socialist.

1: No one elected God as Lord, He declares Himself ruler for life
2: There is no buying and selling in an attempt to gain wealth
3: Everyone eats from the same tree, the tree of life
4: The Law of The Kingdom fo God is absolute
5: The Son of God is the Judge

and we call this paradise
---francis on 7/18/12


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Which economic system is more moral, Capitalism or Socialism?
---Jed on 7/18/12
Systems are not moral, people are. Just ask the Native Americans and West African about the Morality of the greatest capitalist nation in the world.

Then look at the socalist system uner Maurice Bishop and you will see a paradise for all.

Morality is not about systems, it is about people
---francis on 7/18/12


Both are ultimately immoral because they are based on strictly humanistic assumptions.

FWIW, the Pledge of Allegiance (which did not include the words "under God" originally) was written by a Baptist minister of socialist sympathies.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/12


Capitalism is more moral, because it does not take one person's earned income and give it to another to the extent that Socialism does. However, for Capitalism to work in a moral way, goodwill must exist to such an extent that government does not have to tax. Fortunately, your vote is not based on your income, so there is hope.
---Geraldine on 7/18/12


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