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Never Heard About Jesus

What will happen to the untold millions of people over the centuries who never heard about Jesus?

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 ---Phil on 7/19/12
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Joseph 2: Scripture indicates that no free will exists in man's nature, for man is enslaved to sin and unable to believe apart from God's empowerment (Rom. 3:1-19: Eph. 2:1-3: 2 Cor. 4:4: 2 Tim. 1:9). While "whosoever will" may come to the Father, only those whom the Father gives the ability to will toward Him will actually come to Him. The drawing here is selective and effacious producing the desired effect upon those whom God has sovereignly chosen for salvation, those whom God has chosen will believe because God has sovereignly determined that result from eternity past (Eph. 1:9-11).
---Mark_V. on 8/17/12


Joseph, Thank you brother, And thank you for all the scriptures, I look forward to the shedding of more "light" that only God, through His Word -
In Spirit and In Truth---can bring.

Again, I say,
Blessings and
Amen brother.
---char on 8/17/12


Zech. 14:16-19 & Zep. 3:8-14 informs us that not all who live during the millennia are saints.
---joseph on 8/17/12
wow i see not a single word that says 1000 years in those texts

only ONE place in all the bible says 1000 year and it only speaks of judgment
---francis on 8/17/12


Bro. Joseph, thanks. You said 8/12/,
"They will be raised in christ and instructed concerning the salvation available to them through Jesus during His millenia reign...and be taught of Christ"
I responded to that answer. You imply because of the question that all mankind would be taught of God. And that is not the context of John 6:45). v.45 is speaking of those whom the Father draws. The combination of (v. 37) and (v.44) indicates that the divine drawing activity which Jesus referred to cannot be reduced to what many call "prevenient grace." That somehow the power to come to Christ is allegedly dispensed to all of mankind, thus enabling everyone to accept or reject the gospel according to their own will alone.
---Mark_V. on 8/17/12


MarkV on on 8/15 >"Is that what you are saying?" No Mark, not in the least. Nor was I referring to a second chance Francis, Rev. 22:11 references those who have heard and are living when He returns. As Nana said, thank you Nana, I was addressing the blog question. Isa.54:13 was initiated during the first advent of the LORD and shall be continued during His millennia reign. For in the first advent Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the (natural) house of Israel, because it was appropriate to "Let the children (of the old covenant) first be filled". However 'all' of mankind will be taught of Him, and 'all' will have an opportunity to receive Him as Lord of Salvation.
---joseph on 8/17/12




Zech. 14:16-19 & Zep. 3:8-14 informs us that not all who live during the millennia are saints. Rev. 5:10 states that the overcomers will be made kings and priests (priest teach>Eze 44:23) and they shall 'reign' (having the highest degree of influence under the authority of Jesus) on earth. The purpose of that reign will be to bring those who have never heard of Jesus to a knowledge of Him, and the one true God and Father of us all. Isa. 66:15-21 Who has graciously granted us life and salvation through His Son. When all is said and done, all men will know Him, and those whose names remain in the lambs book of life will willingly submit themselves to the Father's principle of loving one another as He has loved us. Knowing Him as all, in all.
---joseph on 8/17/12


---char on 8/15/12-Char there is absolutely nothing for you to apologize for. I know the word Amen to be so be it. I also say so be it to those who have never been privileged with the opportunity that we have been blessed with, (to willingly embrace the salvation offered man through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus), being granted that same opportunity. Your statement in response to Kat on 8/16 is correct, that was never said. In my post I offered a couple of verses upon which my belief concerning this are based, heres more. Psa. 25:8,9>Isa. 29:18,19>Isa. 66:19-23>Jer 16:19-21>Zech 14:8,9 to list a few.
---joseph on 8/16/12


2nd posting,

//char, I don't understand your post to Joseph. Why would you agreeing with Joseph cause any issues for Joseph? Either you say AMEN or not. ---kathr4453 on 8/16/12//

To my understanding ( I may be wrong) I do not see Joseph post stating,
//"that all who died in their sins, without Christ, murderers, serial killers, molesters, in other words the wicked, will be risen from the dead in the millenium, and saved?"//
It is for this reason I posted, //Discernment indeed is needed.//
( I may be mistaken) but I dont see that was ever said to begin with.

Again, //My concern is on bearing false witness. //
Am I mistaken? I ask and thank God for discernment


Thank you to sister,
Shalom
---char on 8/16/12


//---kathr4453 on 8/16/12//

I think I understand you here And Agree And yes,
Amen.
---char on 8/16/12


Scripture tells us, it is appointed ONCE for man to die and then the judgement.

Also scripture tells us, blessed are those who have part of the first resurrection, against such the second death has no power. The second death is hell.

We know this for a fact. anything else is speculation. Man will be judged according to whatever light has been given.

From Adam to Noah WE KNOW teh Gospel was preached to all.

Israel was a LIGHT TO the Nations, re: Nineveh etc, Ruth, King Cyrus a Gentile, etc.

TODAY the Gospel is preached to all men.
---kathr4453 on 8/16/12




kathr,
Bear with me, I appreciated your posts and have always looked for agreements, therefore, I will humble to God our Father first, and then to you sister, blessing...
Does this mean universalism? To my understanding (I may be wrong) universalism is the belief that (all-mankind) will be saved. I have addressed this on the-Does God Know Every Thought- blog.
I believe God knows the intention of the heart and therefore makes the judgment accordingly. When (believers and non-believers) come face to face with Him,(Word and Spirit-I believe they will for judgment) no matter what they believe they will see that He does exist, because they will be standing from judgment.Jn3:16,1Tim4:9-10

Cont'

//---Nana on 8/16/12// Agree.
---char on 8/16/12


Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:


Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)


Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

I believe GOD will treat them with justice and mercy.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/16/12


Lets not forget that Joseph was answering this:
"What will happen to the untold millions of people over the centuries who never heard about Jesus?"

His answer seems to fall within this confines: "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Also,
"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
---Nana on 8/16/12


char, I don't understand your post to Joseph. Why would you agreeing with Joseph cause any issues for Joseph? Either you say AMEN or not.

Do you and Joseph both believe in univrsal salvation for all regardless?

Yes or No? That's all MarkV I believe is asking as well.

I've also heard it taught that even all the animals from the beginning of creation will also be resurrected and live again for eternity?

Do you believe this too?
---kathr4453 on 8/16/12


Joseph,
I pray and stand before God our Father, In the name of Jesus Christ His son and Savior, and ask Him to give you wisdom before answering this question, I am sorry that my Amen, has caused you to be place in this position,
Discernment indeed is needed.

My intention is and has never been to cause any division, I trust you understand that.
Praising God as Father, for His mercy and Grace,

Blessing brother.
---char on 8/15/12


//because every time I see an Amen from someone, it almost always raises flags.// markv

i have seen when others say amen to you, and i have never seen you raise a red flag.
---aka on 8/15/12


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bro. Joseph, I have to ask this question only because every time I see an Amen from someone, it almost always raises flags.
Are you suggesting
"that all who died in their sins, without Christ, murderers, serial killers, molesters, in other words the wicked, will be risen from the dead in the millenium, and saved?"
Is that what you are saying? I just want to make sure where you are coming from since Char gave you an Amen, Amen's always raises flags. Discernment has to be used in most cases. Love you brother and peace.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/12


They will be raised in christ and instructed concerning the salvation available to them through Jesus during His millenia reign.
---joseph on 8/12/12/

Not one bible verse says that

Only ONE thing is said to be taking place during that 100 years:
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

No second chance when Jesus returns. Everyone dead and alive will remain as they are:
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
---francis on 8/15/12


francis, your theology is very very bad. You have people without Christ going into heaven---MarkV


Mark, does that mean you think dead 6 year olds will burn in the lake of fire?
---Blogger9680 on 8/15/12


francis, your theology is very very bad.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/12

I did not write it

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

I just believe it
---francis on 8/15/12


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//They will be raised in christ and instructed concerning the salvation available to them through Jesus during His millenia reign. As "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Many people shall come and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob, He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." For the "gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."Jhn 6:45>Isa 2:3>Mic 4:2
---joseph on 8/12/12///

Agree,
Blessing Joseph
---char on 8/15/12


francis, your theology is very very bad. You have people without Christ going into heaven. Such nonsense. If those people have righteousness, it is their own righteousness, not the righteouness of Christ. By nature they know the law, means they never knew the written law of God. People in pagan and heathen society generally value and attemp to practice its most basic tents. But they were a law to themselves, their practice of some good deeds and their aversion to some evil ones demonstated an innate knowledge of God's law, a knowledge that will actually witness against them on the day of Judgment.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/12


Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. BULLS AND GOATS

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh, I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, NO LONGER I BUT CHRIST IN ME..

21 And having an high priest over the house of God,

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

WE THEN ENTER HIS REST FOR NOW AND ETERNITY.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/12


Romans 4:12 "And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."

... also walk ... walk
---Nana on 8/14/12


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Conformity to the law was a matter of relationship, not something mechanical.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/12

OK and here is the relationship as stated BY THE WORD OF GOD:

Hebrews 10:16 I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,

Who do you suppose wrote those laws in the hearts of these gentile?

THE SPIRIT OF GOD did it
That is the relationship
---francis on 8/14/12


Francis,

Conformity to the law was a matter of relationship, not something mechanical. The law called for a life of faith Hab. 2:4. , a life of loyalty to the Lawgiver, GOD. If one sinned, one did not automatically become a "law breaker,". God "in the Law" made provision for sin in the sacrificial system. Once a Year was the Day of Atonement.

Only apostasy itself constituted covenant breaking. All other sins could be dealt with within the confines of the covenant relationship.

Hebrews 11 EXPLAINS that from Abel ...before teh Law to Moses IN THE LAW, to David who broke the LAW, and was still called the appel of God's eye LIVED BY FAITH.

---kathr4453 on 8/14/12


Psalms 138:2 for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

As great as the name(S) of God is, God places more emphases on his WORD than all his great names.

Jesus said: Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

James said: James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Paul said: Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Greater emphasesis is places on DOING the word of God, than the name of Jesus

Now here is a group of people who show the laws of God is in thier heart, by DOING what is in the law, and you say they will be lost?
---francis on 8/14/12


JAMES:

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

JESUS.

Matthew 19:16 Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Matthew 19:17 if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

PAUL
Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

WORD OF GOD
---francis on 8/14/12


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It does not say those who know Jesus are just. It says those who do the law are just

---francis on 8/14/12


However Abraham was some 400 years before the Law and was JUSTIFIED by Faith, not by the Law. For by the LAW no flesh will be Justified.

So we must understand the difference between Just and Justified.

We are JUSTIFIED by HIS BLOOD PERIOD!
---kathr4453 on 8/14/12


--James_L on 8/14/12
---Mark_V. on 8/14/12

Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

It does not say those who know Jesus are just. It says those who do the law are just

So here we have a a group of people who have never heard of the law of God, yet alone of Jesus, and they are DOERS OF THE LAW. The word of God says that by DOING the law, they show the law of God writen in thier hears. According to the very same text they DOERS of the law shall be just before God.

If these who have never heard of God are DOERS of the law, then even without knowing Christ, they shall be Just before God
---francis on 8/14/12


---Jed on 8/13/12
---Mark_V. on 8/13/12
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 19:17 if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, do by nature the things contained in the law, :

Understand the depth of the grace of God, that even those who do not know him, will be saved if they show love one for another
---francis on 8/14/12


\\anyone who is saved....are saved by the GRACE OF GOD\\
---francis on 7/24/12

The grace of God is found ONLY through believing in Jesus, and in His Name.

I feel sorry for you, and even sorrier for anyone who is influenced by you
---James_L on 8/14/12


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francis, You said,

"those who never heard of Jesus will be saved"

Are this teachings of the SDA's? I never heard they taught that. I tell you, you too must have been hit in the head, but not by a little rock but a big one. Why don't you just open the gates of heaven to all murderers, rapist, child molesters who never heard of Jesus. Do you have the keys?
---Mark_V. on 8/14/12


francis, you refuse to believe that the only way into heaven is through Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/12

anyone who is saved, those who have never heard of Jesus, as well as those who have heard and accept the gospel are saved by the GRACE OF GOD
---francis on 8/13/12


I reiterate what MarkV said. You are still refusing to admit that the only way to God and his grace is through Jesus Christ alone.
---Jed on 8/13/12


francis, you refuse to believe that the only way into heaven is through Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/12

anyone who is saved, those who have never heard of Jesus, as well as those who have heard and accept the gospel are saved by the GRACE OF GOD
---francis on 7/24/12
---francis on 8/13/12


francis, you refuse to believe that the only way into heaven is through Jesus Christ. As if there were many other ways. But there is only one way:
"Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, " and how can we know the way?"
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. "No one comes to the Father except through Me"
(John 14:5,6).
---Mark_V. on 8/13/12


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Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
There is no salvation without Christ, especially self-righteousness.
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Some say you are not saved unless you are first baptized.
---micha9344 on 8/13/12


God tell us the firmament speaks of God. I am really confused about people from third world countries who have never heard about Jesus dying for them. That is why we should appreciate our missionaries. they go thru stuff that people don't even know about. Missionaries are special people.
---shira4368 on 8/12/12


Acts 17:29 we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

what these verses tells us is that God overlooked the ignorance of many gentiles who did not know God or his law and who believed that God was like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device

what God would not overlook is love thy neighbour as thyself, which accordsing to Romans 2:15 has to do with how they treated one another.

So those who do by nature the things contained in the law, Romans 2:14 will be saved
---francis on 8/12/12


Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
Isaiah 41:26 ...[He is] righteous? yea, [there is] none that sheweth, yea, [there is] none that declareth, yea, [there is] none that heareth your words.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Eze 18:4 ...the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
All sin? None righteous?
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
---micha9344 on 8/12/12


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"What will happen to the untold millions of people over the centuries who never heard about Jesus?" They will be raised in christ and instructed concerning the salvation available to them through Jesus during His millenia reign. As "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Many people shall come and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob, He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." For the "gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."Jhn 6:45>Isa 2:3>Mic 4:2
---joseph on 8/12/12


Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
---micha9344 on 8/11/12

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

So the gentiles who do not have the written Law of God, on paper, patchment or stone, are doing what is right, if they are doing the Law of God they are in deed doing what is right.

So there way cannot lead to death
---francis on 8/12/12


Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
--There is no life without Christ.
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.
John 14:6
---micha9344 on 8/11/12


---lee1538 on 8/9/12
Francis is among the very few who agrees with the scripture and says:

Some will be saved, and some will be lost.
Some will be accused and some will be excused
---francis on 8/3/12

anyone who is saved, those who have never heard of Jesus, as well as those who have heard and accept the gospel are saved by the GRACE OF GOD
---francis on 7/24/12

what this says is what it says.
The gentiles do what is writen in the law of God, which shows that the law is writtenin thier hearts. how then are they not saved if they obey the law fo God?
What sin have they commited?
---francis on 8/7/12
---francis on 8/9/12


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//But the passage is (Romans 2:14.15) is speaking of those Gentiles who are a law unto themselves. They know the law of God in their hearts but they are "Automomus" here is what it says, "by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, "are a law to themselves". and here is how it ends, "in the day (Judgment Day) when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel"

Francis here has to say the scripture is wrong since how on earth could the Gentiles do by nature what the law required and yet did NOT observe the Old Jewish Sabbath.
---lee1538 on 8/9/12


How did the law get written in thier hearts?

Deut 9:10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God,

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
---francis on 8/9/12


francis, your wrong again. Those in (Romans 2:14,15) don't have Christ, they are a law to themselves?
Second, there is only two Judgments. Daniel 7:10 refers to (Rev. 20:11-15) it is for those who go through the Second death, unbelievers.

The Judgment Seat of Christ, sometimes called the Bema Seat of Christ is for believers only. (Romans 14:10-12) speaking of believers, "For we will all stand before God's Judgment seat...so then, each of us will give an account of himself to God" (2 Cor. 5:10) tells us "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Both Scriptures are refering to believers.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/12


In Romans 2:15, Paul is explaining that these gentiles have had the law of God written in their hearts.
---trey on 8/7/12

Please re-read the Writings.
The Word of God misquoted can morph into a mongrel quickly.

Ro 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts.

It says the work, or action, of the law written in their hearts, not the law itself.

Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites, to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises,

At His return to them, He will write their laws on their hearts. Jer 31:31

No one has this at this time.
---Phil on 8/9/12


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---Mark_V. on 8/9/12
You are wrong on two counts:
1: If they are doing by nature the law of God, which shows the law of God in thier hearts, there will be nothing against them. They have keep the laws of God. Why would God have any reason to condemn those who are obeying his laws?

2:There are THREE judgements in the bible, one before Jesus returns Daniel 7:10, one with the saints Revelation 20:4, and the great white throne.
---francis on 8/9/12


Trey, I know that you are right in what you say concerning those who are saved who have the law written in their hearts. But the passage is (Romans 2:14.15) is speaking of those Gentiles who are a law unto themselves. They know the law of God in their hearts but they are "Automomus" here is what it says, "by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, "are a law to themselves". and here is how it ends, "in the day (Judgment Day) when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel" That occures at the Great White Throne of Judgement.
They have a knowledge that will actually witness against them on the Day of Judgment.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/12


In Romans 2:15, Paul is explaining that these gentiles have had the law of God written in their hearts. How did it get there?
Jer31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

In other words God wrote his laws in the hearts of his Spiritual Israel, his elect, his chosen (Jew and Gentile).

God does not write his law in all men's hearts. He writes his laws in the hearts of his people.
---trey on 8/7/12


Because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Rom. 1:21).

These verses are exact opposites.

one obeys God's laws, one disregards God's law

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts
---francis on 8/7/12


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reflecting the divine law written in their heart. Mark_V. on 8/7/12

The Law came to show the exceeding sinfulness of sin. It is just and holy. It can only produce more sin.

The action of the law written on our hearts means we are subject to its action, magnifying sin, Scripture does not say, "the law written on their hearts"

It is the action of the Law, not the Law itself. It is inherent in all of us.

For the Jew, it is magnified through precepts and ordinances.
---Phil on 8/7/12


francis, you sure do a lot of twisting with the word of God. Now you are saying that the Gentiles did not sin. Everyone sins francis. Do we have people who never sinned? If we do, they don't need a Savior. They can enter heaven without Christ, shear nonsense.
That is not what the passage is saying, these people did good deeds, that does not qualify them for heaven. No deeds get you in. The reason you support the law. No one can earn his own way to heaven by been good. Anything without faith is sin. The good they do gives not honor to God.
"Because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Rom. 1:21).
---Mark_V. on 8/7/12


Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)

what this says is what it says.
The gentiles do what is writen in the law of God, which shows that the law is writtenin thier hearts. how then are they not saved if they obey the law fo God?
What sin have they commited?
---francis on 8/7/12


francis, the people in (Romans 2:14) are not saved. what the passage says is, that without knowing the written law of God, people in pagan society generally value and attempt to practice its basic tenets. This is normal for cultures instinctively to value justice, honesty, compassion, and goodness toward others, reflecting the divine law written in their heart. "Law to themselves" Their practice of some good deeds, and their aversion to some evil ones demonstrate an innate knowledge of God's law-a knowledge that will actually witness against them on the day of Judgment. Everyone needs Christ in order to enter heaven. What you are implying is, that there is righteous heathens and pagans without the righteousness of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 8/7/12


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Phil, Ephesian 2:8
Eph2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
*So faith is a gift from God.
John6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
*All that God gives to the Son will be saved.
Seems to me like salvation is by GRACE and the Son will not lose one that the Father has given him.
So my question is this, "What difference does it make in their eternal salvation if they never hear the name Jesus?" They are still saved by GRACE. If I have to do something to obtain it it is no more GRACE (Romans 11:6).
---trey on 8/6/12


Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

The gentles do "do by nature the things contained in the law," How then will they not be saved?

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

We will ALL be judged by the law, if the gentiles do the law, how then will they not be justified?

Matthew 19:16 Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 19:17 if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
---francis on 8/6/12


Mark_V.

The Sacred Writings speak nothing of "the atonement of Christ".

His work on the cross was was a ransom. It was no mere covering for sins, which is what atonement is.

There is no judgment for sin (Jn 1:29) The Perfect Sacrifice was made and accepted at Calvary.

Jn 3:18 he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Those at the GWT are condemned already, their deeds revealed, and unbelief condemning them to the second death.

It is temporary, for death is swallowed up in victory and God becomes All in all.
---Phil on 8/6/12


Phil, the passages in (Romans 2:14,15) that francis gave excuse no one of sin before God. They excuse themselves to what is right or wrong, but not excused by God. No one who did not hear of the Lord Jesus Christ and committed his life to him will escape the The Great White Throne of Judgment. All unbelievers will be judge there. And it will be a righteous judgment. If there is unrepented sin, they will have to answer to that. And all come short of the glory of God, but those who are saved have the atonement of Christ, the reason they will not be Judge there.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/12


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Only the people who will not be saved are in the great white throne judgment. There will be people who never heard of Jesus who will be saved, and there will be those who have never heard of Jesus who will belost also.

So not everyone who has not heard of Jesus will be in the great white throne judgment


Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)
---francis on 8/5/12


Phil, it's pretty simple, all who have rejected Christ or that did not hear about Christ did not receive the Atonement of Christ, they are all headed to the "Great White Throne of Judgment" They will be judge there, because,
"(Romans 1:20,21) speaks about those people.
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened"
---Mark_V. on 8/5/12


No need to preach to Gospel.
Else you may have one of these "righteous" reject Jesus in unbelief and be responsible for having them cast into Hell.
Unless your doctrine is faulty.
---micha9344 on 8/4/12


Great we're concerned for people who have not heard of Jesus and His astonishing love for humankind
Several writers state that such people will be judged on what they did in life according to the light they understood
E.G. People doing their selfless utmost for good in their community, that shall be accredited as being righteousness
Anyone aligning themselves with Satan, the Adversary, will receive just penalty - which the Bible says is the second death - won't live forever
I know God is totally fair, and is unwilling for any person to not live with Him eternally, so by all means God will save as many as possible of we humans
Behoves every believer to be an effective witness for Jesus in order for people to make informed decisions
---Fleur on 8/3/12


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No one has answered what will happen.

Does no one know?

Does God even say?
---Phil on 8/3/12
Some will be saved, and some will be lost.
Some will be accused and some will be excused
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)
---francis on 7/24/12
---francis on 8/3/12


No one has answered what will happen.

Do they all get put into a shoebox and put on a shelf somewhere?

Does no one know?

Does God even say?
---Phil on 8/3/12


Rom 8:1-3 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
John 15:5a,c I am the vine, ye [are] the branches ... for without me ye can do nothing.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
---micha9344 on 7/26/12


Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)

anyone wo is saved, those who have never heard of Jesus, as well as those who have heard and accept the gospel are saved by the GRACE OF GOD
---francis on 7/24/12


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Cluny, Jesus said "I Am The Way, The Truth, and The Life, no one comes unto The Father except through me."

Also Paul said "You are saved by grace through faith, not of works"

Doing good works and obeying the law or your conscience will never get anyone to heaven. Only faith in Jesus Christ will do that. No one will be saved without faith in Jesus Christ.
---Jed on 7/23/12


What will happen to the untold millions of people over the centuries who never heard about Jesus?
---Phil on 7/19/12

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
---francis on 7/21/12


There are two resurrections:

the first, when Jesus returns for his people and, the second, at the end of the one thousand year reign of Jesus when all the other dead shall rise and be judged from the Book of Life according to their works (while living on earth in today's world). Blessed are they that rise at the first resurrection.
---Steveng on 7/20/12


Steven, there is a lot of good people who are good to others, it does not in any was mean they will be saved. That is not biblical at all. Anything without faith is sin. A person who doesn't have Christ can give a glass of water to someone thirsty, a good deed, but he cannot give a glass of water in the name of Jesus Christ.
(Romans 1:20,21) speaks about those people.
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened"
---Mark_V. on 7/20/12


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Those who have genuine love for others, and perform it, will be saved from death at the second resurrection.
---Steveng on 7/19/12


According to A.E.Knoch, those who have not heard of Jesus will be saved during the last eon, after the millennium.
---Smitty on 7/19/12


There are people of certain groups who do humanitarian things, in order to show they don't need Jesus. This is not a good idea to do this. And there are people who have heard of Jesus, but it is being made to look as though they have not, so atheists can argue that God is not being fair. Things are not the way they are being made to look. Also, unforgiveness is in people who have not heard of Jesus. So, they are anti-Christ by their nature, in their cultural unforgiveness things. God will judge them. I'm not the one to do that, now. But forgive, and pray for them (c: > "for all men," Paul says, in 1 Timothy 2:1. God "desires all men to be saved" (in 1 Timothy 2:4). God is realistic! (c:
---willie_c: on 7/19/12


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