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Obedience To Righteousness

If no man can be justified by keeping the Law. Why does Paul tell us in (Romans 6:16) that obedience leads to righteousness?

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 ---David on 7/20/12
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David on 8/7/12
Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

my point was this israel was not children fo israel" but nation of israel
---francis on 8/7/12


They had other gods.
They had no fear of Jehovah at all. No fear that Jehovah could cause thier death.---francis on 8/6/12


Francis
(Jeremiah 31:31) says God would make a new covenant with Israel and Judah.

Does a man need to remarry his wife if they are still married?
Did God need to remarry Judah if they were still married?
Wouldn't God have had to have given Judah a certificate of divorce as he did Israel, if he was going to make a new covenant with Israel?
---David on 8/7/12


---David on 8/6/12
Disagree.
They had other gods.
They had no fear of Jehovar at all. No fear that Jehovah could cause thier death.

Jeremiah 44:16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem:

No turning from these nations at all
---francis on 8/6/12


(Jeremiah 3:8)
I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries.
---David on 8/6/12

Be careful, this may refer only to the northern kingdom, israel which went into captivity of assyria, and may not include the southern kingdomof Judah
---francis on 8/6/12


They believed nothing could happen to them because the temple of God was with them.
---francis on 8/5/12

That was true at first, but God divorced himself from Israel.
(Jeremiah 3:8)
I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries.


If God gave Israel a divoce, they were no longer in a covenant with God. And those who lived after this divorce lived in fear of death. And these folks are the one's mentioned in (Hebrews 2:14-16).
Agree or disagree?
---David on 8/6/12




---David on 8/5/12
Jer 7:4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these

They believed nothing could happen to them because the temple of God was with them.

Jer 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not, And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen i, saith the LORD
---francis on 8/5/12


So no need to fear death, since they would not die
---francis on 8/4/12

Francis
Hmmm....I must admit Francis, you make a very good point.
With the sacrificial system in place the Jews did not need to fear death. And since they did not fear death, this is the reason they did not fear God.
And if they did not fear God, this is why they did not keep his Law.

Many in the church today do not keep the Law of Christ, because they too, do not fear God.
They do not fear God because they have the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
They, like the Jews, use the sacrificicial system as if it were a license to sin.

Thank you Francis, God has used you to show me this.
---David on 8/5/12


---David on 8/4/12
I think your second question answered the first.

If they had a substitute for thier death, how would they die?

The reason why they did not fear death, is because they knew that they would not die. They knew that the lamb of God would die for them. SO they had no need to fear death.

The sacrifice itself showed how God would deal with thier sin, that God would send His Lamb to die in thier place for thier sin.

So no need to fear death, since they would not die
---francis on 8/4/12


"I do not think that "fear of death" means they were afraid to die." francis

If the Jews did not fear death, why would they bring God an animal sacrifice to attone for their sins? Why would they bother, to bring a sacrifice to die in their place?

God disciplines those he loves. And it's that disapline which leads one to keep his commandments.
Just like a young child fears their father when they are growing up. That fear, is needed to guide a young child to obedience.
If that fear is not there, the child will grow up to be undisciplined. The result,"Spare the rod, spoil the child".
You have seen a spoiled child talk belligenertly to their parents.
Do they fear them?
---David on 8/4/12


First of all, recall that God requires obedience. Not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was a test in obedience - failure to obey led to death and corruption
The reason we obey is now queried
We are not saved because we obey - Jesus told off the Pharisees for their obedience without love, mercy and compassion. Blind adherence to the Law will not, nor ever has, kept friendship between God and people
However, if you love Me, keep My commandments was what Jesus said
Love Jesus, be friends with Him, and you will want to do all He asks
We'll never perfectly keep His Law - even to think unlovingly or feel momentary evil is disobedience
Love Jesus? Obey!
---Fleur on 8/3/12




This to me just means that God has delivered US from certain death. By his blood we are delivered from death.

I do not think that "fear of death" means that they were afraid to die.

They had no reason to fear death, because they had placed their trust in Jesus as thier deleverer and substitue for death. That is what the sacrifiail system was about
---francis on 8/3/12


David on 8/3/12

Hebrews 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

I would surely consider other text before making any statements:

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
---francis on 8/3/12


David on 8/3/12

Hebrews 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

Hebrews 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil,

Abraham respected Godm Abraham had no need to be afraid of God

I think you have the wrong hebrews text
---francis on 8/3/12


You are the one who claimed that in the OT they obeyed God because of fear.
---francis on 8/2/12

Francis
Do you believe there's a difference between fear of death and the fear of God?
Example:
It was said, Abraham feared God in (Genesis 22:12).
And in (Hebrews 2:14-16) Believe it or not, it says the children of Abraham were held by their fear of death.

There is a difference, but what is that difference?
---David on 8/3/12


---David on 8/2/12
First off, you are the one who claimed that in the OT they obeyed God because of fear. I said NO.

Animal sacrifice for sin before Moses:
Genesis 3:21 Revelation 13:8

Genesis 4:4-7 Hebrews 11:4

Job 1:5
---francis on 8/2/12


Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

There is simply no rationale to believe that the commandments Abraham obeyed were those given at Mt. Sinai.
---lee1538 on 8/2/12


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Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
So before Egypt, God has laws, commandments and ordinances
---francis on 8/1/12

Francis
Excellent verse!!
Now show me where God threatened Abraham with death, if he did not keep his Laws.
And an animal sacrifice for sin, before God gave Moses the Ten Commandments.
---David on 8/2/12


Brother Micha, very well put. There is many things that applied to Israel that do not apply to us, and there is many things that apply to us that did not apply to Israel. God dealed with all people. Israel got the law of God the other nations didn't. They actually got what God thought they had coming to them to save Israel many times, other times he allowed Israel to be defeated by other nations.
David is also right when he said,
"If your obedience does not come from trusting God, it is called "Works".
If your obedience comes from Trust, it is called "faith".
The righteous will walk by Faith just as Abraham did, and that's why Paul used Abraham as his example."
---Mark_V. on 8/2/12


[MarkV: "Just because something is written in Scripture does not mean we can do that also."
Php 4:13 I can do ALL things through Christ which strengtheneth me.]-jerry6593 on 8/1/12
Gen 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood...
Gen 22:2 ...Take now thy son...and offer him there for a burnt offering...
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Different people ...Different commands ...Same God.
---micha9344 on 8/1/12


Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So before Egypt God has laws, commandments and ordinances
---francis on 8/1/12


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When The Jews left Egypt, God tried to get them to trust him. When they didn't, God gave them "The Law."
Agree or disagree?
---David on 8/1/
Sorry but all ten commandments are found in the book of genesis. Also, the first animal sacrifice that was made was made by Jesus.

Most people tend to think that the ten commandments came when they left egypt, but a close look at Exodus 16, an event which tookplace before the giving of the ten commandments show otherwise.

While it is not the theme of the book of Genesis to detail the law of God, all the law are given there.
---francis on 8/1/12


Jerry, the passage in (Phil. 4:13), in the context was based on what Paul was going through. Paul uses a Grk verb that means "to be strong" or "to have strength" (Acts 19:16,20: James 5:16). He had strength to withstand "all things" (v. 11.12), including both difficulty and prosperity in the material world, through Christ who strenthens him. That passage also applies to believers (us) in Christ Because believers are in Christ (Gal. 2:20). He (God) infuses us with His strength to sustain us until we receive some provision (Eph. 3:16-20: 2 Cor. 12:10).
---Mark_V. on 8/1/12


no one in the NT obeys God out of fear of death
---francis on 7/31/12

Francis
No one is suppose to anyway, but many still do. And that's what Paul preached against, "Works."
If your obedience does not come from trusting God, it is called "Works".
If your obedience comes from Trust, it is called "faith".
The righteous will walk by Faith just as Abraham did, and that's why Paul used Abraham as his example.

When The Jews left Egypt, God tried to get them to trust him. When they didn't, God gave them "The Law."
Agree or disagree?
---David on 8/1/12


MarkV: "Just because something is written in Scripture does not mean we can do that also."

Php 4:13 I can do ALL things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


---jerry6593 on 8/1/12


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francis, I stand by what I said, just because something was done in Scripture does not mean we should do it also. Just because satan deceived Eve, would you want to deceive others? It was done in the Bible.
Second, David is correct, the nation of Israel was under a Covenant of works, which brought blessings for obeying and curses for disobeying. The law never brought salvation. Those who disobeyed had no fear of God. Those that obeyed, obeyed because of the love they had for God.
In the New Testament, believers obey because we "are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good work, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10). Unbelievers disobey because they have no fear of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/1/12


---David on 7/31/12
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

No threats here, just the truth. Adam was not obedient to God because of fear

No one in the OT was obedientbecause of fear

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death,

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

no one in the NT obeys God out of fear of death
---francis on 7/31/12


Just because something is written in Scripture does not mean we can do that also.
---Mark_V. on 7/31/12
REALLY. REALLY? REALLY!
---francis on 7/31/12


Never did they have any need to fear death
---francis on 7/28/12

Francis
If they had no fear of death, why did God use death as a means of punishment?
And why would God threaten the Israelites with death if they had no fear of it?
---David on 7/31/12


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francis, you are speaking about the Word of God, I am speaking about the word of Jerry. Very different. Just because something is written in Scripture does not mean we can do that also. Jesus Christ is God, we are but clay made of the same lump.
---Mark_V. on 7/31/12


jerry, how dare you compare Jesus Christ who is God with man.
---Mark_V. on 7/30/12

I think paul did it several times
Comparing Jesus to Adam, to Moses, to Aarom, and to Melchizedek
---francis on 7/30/12


jerry, how dare you compare Jesus Christ who is God with man. It doesn't matter what God does, everything He does is just and right. There is no sin nature in Him. Everything man does which is wrong is sinful. We do not have the character or nature of God. If things are perfect for God it is because that is the way He wanted them. So it was perfect as far as His plan is concern. But it is written to us as very good. If Job was perfect he would not need a Savior. We are talking about man not angels, they don't get a Savior. Only one is Perfect and that is God.
---Mark_V. on 7/30/12


Obdience leads us to living righteous lives in accordance with the will of GOD. Our Righteousness comes from GOD throught the blood of JESUS CHRIST. But by the HOLY SPIRIT he lives righteously by our obdience in love.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/29/12


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Ro 3:22 and the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing.

Phl 3:9 . not having my righteousness, which is of law, but that which is through faith of Christ--the righteousness that is of God by the faith,

It is through believing on the Son that we obtain His faith. By walking in Christ's faith, through obedience to the Spirit's prompting, we rise higher and higher unto the place of sonship we were designated for, and attain the righteous that comes from God, and not works.
---Phil on 7/29/12


MarkV: "So I guess he was not without sin. Job did not curse God but the day he was born."

What a scholar you are! I suppose you think that Jesus also sinned when he cursed the fig tree. LOL!


---jerry6593 on 7/29/12


But you said,
"There was NO FEAR of death under the law of Moses."
---francis on 7/26/12

---David on 7/28/12

Why would they have any reason to fear death? Under the law of Moses it was very clear to them that an inocent lamb would have to die in thier place. They rehearsed this every time they made a sacrifice.

They knew that they would not have to die, that a substitute would be provided

So there was never a need to fear death, they also knew that one the day fo atonement all thier sins were made as white as snow.

Never did they have any need to fear death
---francis on 7/28/12


NT also
---francis on 7/27/12

But you said,
"There was NO FEAR of death under the law of Moses."
---francis on 7/26/12
---David on 7/28/12


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Throughout the Old Testament there is one account after another, where God used the Fear of death to keep the Jews in line.
---David on 7/27/12
NT also
Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell, yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

---Mark_V. on 7/27/12
Lets us end this just show me one text that says we CANNOT help but break the ten commandments
---francis on 7/27/12


There was NO FEAR of death under the law of Moses.
---francis on 7/26/12

Francis
You....... must be joking.
Throughout the Old Testament there is one account after another, where God used the Fear of death to keep the Jews in line.
One of many Examples:
(Ezekiel 33:13)
"13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live, if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered, but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it."
---David on 7/27/12


francis, your arguments are not good at all. Of course almost all of the New Testament reminds us not to sin, you know why? because we do. If we were perfect we would not need reminding.
Second, Job was perfect but only in a moral sense. The word "perfect" is the word "Tam." it means complete, whole, upright, and always in a moral sense. It did not mean he did not sin.
"After this Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. May the day perish on which I was born, and the night in which it was said, a male child is conceived" So I guess he was not without sin. Job did not curse God but the day he was born.
---Mark_V. on 7/27/12


--Mark_V. on 7/26/12
John 5:14 sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:11 Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Hebrews 12:1 let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Again I ask, does the bible say that we CANNOT KEEP THE LAW, or thatwe DID NOT KEEP THE LAW


Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job, and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
---francis on 7/26/12


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francis you asked,

"Does the bible say that " no one can keep the law?" or that no one has kept the law?"

It does not matter how you color it, no one can keep the whole law, so no one can bring salvation to themselves on his own works. Only Jesus Christ could keep the law. "The only reason believers are made righteous," is because the righteousness of Jesus Christ has been imputed to us. Remove the imputed righteousness of Christ and you are the same person underneath. "All come short of the glory of God" and that means all. The reason why the Law is condemning all who are lost even today. They need the righteousness of Christ. Otherwise they remain separated from God.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/12


--David on 7/26/12
There was NO FEAR of death under the law of Moses.

Everyone who sinned and was repentant unerstood that Jesus ( the lamb sacrificed in the sanctuary services) would die for thier sins.

the killed every sacrifice in FAITH that Jesus would die for thier sins

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:

They knew that they would not die for thier own sins, bnt that the inocent lamb of God would die
---francis on 7/26/12


David I will show the same fear in the NT
---francis on 7/25/12

Francis
True,
But, but why does a man fear God?
The Fear of God comes from the fear of death.
Under the New Covenant, in those who love God, the fear of death is taken away.
(1 John 4:18)
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear hath torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love.


Francis, was the fear of death taken away under the Law of Moses?
Best read (Hebrews 2:14-16) before you answer.
---David on 7/26/12


---David on 7/25/12
loosing arguement David as i will show the same fearin the NT

uke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell, yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

1 Peter 2:17 Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

FEAR does not always mean be afraid, it may mean REVERENCE, RESPECT
---francis on 7/25/12


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That still does not say they obeyed because of fear ---francis on 7/25/12

Francis
Here's a verse for you, that says Fear kept them from sinning.
(Exodus 20:20)
Moses said to the people, Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.
---David on 7/25/12


Francis
Does a man show his love for his wife when he commits adultery against her?
Did the Jews show they loved God when they worshiped false Idols?
---David on 7/25/12

That still does not say they obeyed because of fear or duty

what It showed is that they did not fear the lard at all to have turn against him

2 Kings 21:6 And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke [him] to anger.

does not look like fear or duty to me in thier disobedience. Who angers someone whom they fear?
---francis on 7/25/12


David, I disagree with you on what you said,
"Those under the Law of Moses, kept the Law out of fear and duty."
No one could keep the law period. ---Mark_V. on 7/24/12

Mark
I rephrased the statement below so you can understand.
"Those under the Law of Moses, tried to keep the Law out of fear and duty"

I assumed that was implied since I was referencing (Hebrews) which is about sacrifice. Sacrifice which was needed for the forgiveness of sin. If there was sacrifice, I thought it obvious to most that there was sin in the Old Testament.
Sorry, I forgot you were out there Mark.
---David on 7/25/12


NOTHING in there about obedience due to fear and duty---francis on 7/24/12

Francis
Does a man show his love for his wife when he commits adultery against her?
Did the Jews show they loved God when they worshiped false Idols?

(Jeremiah 3:8)
I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries.

Idol worship for the Jews was adultery, adultery against God.
Idol worship proves the Jews, did not love God. If they loved the Lord why would they choose to worship other Gods?
If the Jews did not keep the Lords commandments out of love, what other reason could there have been?
Did they make the Golden Idols because they loved God?
---David on 7/25/12


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Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

---jerry6593 on 7/25/12


Does the bible say that " no one can keep the law?" or that no one has kept the law?
---francis on 7/25/12


David, I disagree with you on what you said,

"
Those under the Law of Moses, kept the Law out of fear and duty."


No one could keep the law period.
"Therefore if perfection were though the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law) what further need was there to another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?"

If those under the law could keep that law they would not need Christ as a High-Priest. Christ High-Priest was clearly beyond the law which was the authority for the Levitical priesthood (v.11).
---Mark_V. on 7/24/12


---David on 7/24/12
Under Aaron's priest hood, perfection could not be achieved because: For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by the which we draw nigh unto God. Hebrews 7:19

For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: Hebrews 9:13

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Hebrews 10:4

as you can see it only pointed to Jesus

NOTHING in there mind you about obedience due to fear and duty

God promise in Eziekel to give a new heart was because they went away from his laws

Nothing about obedience due to fear and duty
---francis on 7/24/12


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Those under the Law of Moses, kept the Law out of fear and duty.

David on 7/23/12
Nothing you posted said that they observed the law out of fear and duty, and nothing you posted stated that God changed any of the ten commandments

If you have ANY text at all that shows that anyone obeyed out of fear and duty post it so we an end this back and forth

If yo have ANY text that show God changed one jot or tittle in the ten commandments post it and let's end this
---francis on 7/24/12


(Hebrews 7:11)
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

Francis
What was the perfection that couldn't be obtained under Aaron's priesthood?
It was Love.
(Ezekiel 11:19-20)
I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them, I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
---David on 7/24/12


Steven, there is only two types of people, believers and unbelievers. You are now speaking like Eloy, he says there is four kinds of people that go to heaven. Yet the Bible only speaks of one kind that goes to heaven.
The reason that no one can keep the law, is because everyone is sinful. And the reason we are condemn while lost, is because people are separated from God. The law is not only the Ten Commentments, which is written, but the law of God Adam broke. He was our representive, and sin was imputed to all men. Adam broke the commandment of God and in so doing took the whole creation down with him.
---Mark_V. on 7/24/12


When the lawyer tempted Jesus you'll notice that the lawyer spoke from the Old Testament (they didn't have the New Testament at that time). Therefore, all the 613 laws can be placed under any one of the Ten Commandments, the Ten commandments can be placed under any one of the Two Commandments that Jesus spoke of, and the two commandments can be placed under the ultimate commandment: to LOVE (as in the verb form, to do). All the laws of the prophets are hung on this one word. It is the only word in the entire universe that will get a person into heaven.

It's unfortunate that Love has almost completely evaporated from the earth which will bring in the AntiChrist.
---Steveng on 7/23/12


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I advise you to STOP NOW since you have NO idea what you are talking about, and NO SCRIPTURE to support your claim ---francis on 7/23/12

Francis
Is the word of Jesus Christ good enough for you?

(Luke 10:25-27)
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. Teacher, he asked, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
What is written in the Law? he replied. How do you read it?
He answered, Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and,
Love your neighbor as yourself.

You have answered correctly, Jesus replied. Do this and you will live.
---David on 7/23/12


Those under the Law of Moses, kept the Law out of fear and duty.
Those under the Law of Christ, keep the Law out of their love for God and their neighbor.
---David on 7/23/12

I advise you to STOP NOW since you have NO idea what you are talking about, and NO SCRIPTURE to support your claim

Psalms 18:1 I will love thee, O LORD, my strength.

Psalms 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints, he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psalms 116:1 I love the LORD, because he hath heard my voice [and] my supplications.

Psalms 119:97 O how love I thy law! it [is] my meditation all the day.
---francis on 7/23/12


Those under the Law of Moses, kept the Law out of fear and duty.
Those under the Law of Christ, keep the Law out of their love for God and their neighbor.
---David on 7/23/12

I advise you to STOP NOE since you have NO idea what you are talking about, and have NO SCRIPTURE to support your claim

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Leviticus 19:18 thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

keing the law out of Love is NOT a new testement idea
---francis on 7/23/12


Francis
The changing of the Law did not do away with the Law of Moses. But changed the reason why a man keeps Gods Law.
Those under the Law of Moses, kept the Law out of fear and duty.
Those under the Law of Christ, keep the Law out of their love for God and their neighbor.

How shall we know the Law of Christ?
"God puts his Law into your mind and writes it on your heart." (Your Godly Conscience)
Through your conscience, Gods Holy Spirit tells you not to do evil, and to help your neighbor who is in need (Romans 2:15).

It will be through this relationship that you will come to love both God and your neighbor. Love is the fulfillment of the Law.
---David on 7/23/12


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There are four types of people: one, the people who do good, the people who do bad, the people who think they are christians but are not and, four, people who do good and believe in Christ. Which one would you rather be?
---Steveng on 7/22/12


no man could keep the Ten Commandments is the very reason God changed the Law.
(Hebrews 7:12)
For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
---David on 7/22/12

Which of the TEN COMMANDMENTS have anything to do with the priesthood or was changed?

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain,

4.Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother:

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness

10. Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 7/22/12


we are no longer under the law. We are under GRACE, which is the free gift we must accept through Christ.the definition of Grace , G ift
R ecieved
A t
C hrist
E xpense
---colleen on 7/22/12


No one can keep the law.
---Mark_V. on 7/21/12

Mark
You are right if we are talking about the "Ten Commandments".
Paul is not talking about the Law of Moses in (Romans 6:16).
Paul is talking about the Law of Christ.

The fact no man could keep the Ten Commandments is the very reason God changed the Law.
(Hebrews 7:12)
For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

The priesthood was changed, and the Law along with it.
Changed to a law which makes us the servants of Almighty God. To serve him here on earth, as the angels serve in heaven.
Who brings food to the hungry on earth?
The angels in Heaven, or those who serve Christ on earth? (Matthew 25:31-46)
---David on 7/22/12


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just because my kids keep the "law" of my household, they are not necessarily justified, but when my kids in the spirit of the law obey instruction, they are righteous in my eyes.
---aka on 7/22/12


Paul was speaking to those Jews who had accepted Jesus as the Messiah but still followed Mosaic law (the Judaizer Jews that were only able to understand "milk"). Paul was not speaking to today's SPIRIT-FILLED Jesus worshippers.

For the JEWS, acts/deeds of righteousness are still performed today in these modern times as a means of worship, but, WE "spirit-filled" Jesus worshippers should not "PERFORM" anything.

If and when (good mood) we truly wish to help/give, we must be sure that we are NOT giving GRUDGINGLY, but completely voluntarily, and even CHEERFULLY lest we be a hypocrite (for God loves a cheerful giver).

Matthew 24:51 "and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites".
---more_excellent_way on 7/21/12


Righteouness, is righteous behavior, that can only be accomplish through Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/21/12

AMEN
---francis on 7/21/12


1Cor 9:19 ...servant unto all... Mark 10:44
v20 ...Jew...under the law... Matthew 18:11
v21 ...without the law.. John 10:16
v22 ...weak...save some. Psa 72:11,12>Isa 52:7
v23 ...gospel's sake... Mat 11:5
v24,25 ...run...receive...crown... 1Pe 5:4>Jam 1:12
v26,27 ... Psa 31:23,24
2Pe 3:15-16 and consider [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable [people] twist to their own destruction, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures.
---micha9344 on 7/21/12


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In Romans 6 Paul is explaining how we are no longer under the curse of the law because Christ died and fulfilled the law obligation. He further states that now we have the POWER via Christ's death to choose to no longer be slaves to sin, but to be slaves to righteousness. Praise Jesus
---churchgirl on 7/21/12


To know righteousness, one must know the what to do and what not to do. That is what the law tells us. The ultimate law is "love." How are we to know how to love when we do not know What love is or even HOW to do it? Do we love when we murder? Do we love God when we worship other gods? It's the commandments that tell us how to love (thou shalt not...). Jesus preached the gospel - the coming Kingdom of God and how to get there. In today's world a child that is not shown the ways of God becomes feral. From Exodus 24:7 to 1 Peter 1:14, scripture tells us to be obedient. From Genesis 22:18 to 1 Peter 1:22, scripture tells us to obey. From Genesis 26:5 to Revelation 22:14, scripture tells us to DO His commandments.
---Steveng on 7/21/12


David, Paul is not teaching "unbelievers" that obedience to the law leads to salvation. Paul is speaking to those who are saved, who are slaves of God. Righteousness is the fruit of the Spirit.

"That ye may approve things that are excellent, that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ, Being filled with the fruits of "righteousness," which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God" (Phi. 1:10,11).
The law saves no one because no one can keep the law. They cannot be "justified" by the law. Righteouness, is righteous behavior, that can only be accomplish through Christ. Self-righteous behavior by unbelievers is sin, for it is not of faith.
---Mark_V. on 7/21/12


Because Paul was covering both sides of his fence. This is how he has shut our eyes and ears to seeing and hearing the truth that Jesus taught. He wasn't kidding when he bragged about becoming all things to all men so that he might win some. Read 1Cor 9:19-27 very carefully. Now read John 5:37-44.
---barb on 7/20/12


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The real question is why doesn't Paul know that Jesus took the Kingdom of God away from the Jews making the Way for the Jews and the Gentiles into one narrow road? Jesus left the Jews with a desolate house but Paul doesn't get it.
---barb on 7/20/12


MORE SCRIPTURES ON THIS ISSUE:

Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

2 Samuel 22:21 The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

THE ANSWER IS IMPARTED RIGHTEOUSNESS
---francis on 7/20/12


Paul was telling THE JEWS how to be good JEWS, he was not speaking to JESUS WORSHIPPERS (he also was not giving instruction to anyone who is alive TODAY).

Today, God wants us to be "lovers of goodness", He does not want us to have to "OBEY" in order that "goodness" happen (and He wants to be "Abba Father" to us, NOT "MASTER" so that we can be His "SON").

Romans 8:15 "the spirit of SONship".

Titus 1:8 "lovers of goodness, master of himself".

This is the age of ETERNITY (Ephesians 1:10, Mark 10:30), the JESUS DISPENSATION "doctrine of Christ", 2 John 1:9.

Verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 7/20/12


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