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Is Hell Destroyed With Earth

If earth is to be destroyed won't this mean hell is also destroyed?

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 ---1st_cliff on 7/31/12
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Gordon, Nice try but Deut.32 is the rantings of Moses,and it is he in whom the fire was kindled.(just blazing anger)One cannot set the "foundation" of a literal mountain on fire!
There is not nor has there ever been a fire in Sheol
(the grave)
**THE Lowest Hell** would mean there are different levels like the Hindu hell.
(more like pagan Hades)
The Jews,for thousands of years were His exclusive people,but even now do not believe in a fiery hell!
---1st_cliff on 8/15/12


1st Cliff, In the Old Testament, DEUTERONOMY 32:22 "For a Fire is kindled in Mine Anger, and SHALL BURN UNTO THE LOWEST HELL, and shall consume the Earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains!"
---Gordon on 8/15/12


Jerry, you say,

"But Mark, I thought that you were a predestinationalist, and believed that some were "chosen" for torture before they were born."

Those who are punished, are punished for what they have done in life. God doesn't make them sin. All descendants of Adam are condemned already, they need Christ,
"He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deed were evil" (John 3:18,19). I never said babies went to hell. So please get it right.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/12


Follower, are you also suggesting Satan and the fallen angels, who hell was originally designed for will actually one day be purified with fire? NOT SO!!!

EVERLASTING Darkness is just that EVERLASTING!
---kathr4453 on 8/15/12


Mark stated: What God says, is true always, what man says, may or may not be true, what Satan says, usually mixes truth and error.

As you stated you believe holy scripture is inspired by Satan and man and is mixed with truth and error? very interesting at least now I see why you believe everything you write is above the Lord Jesus and whatever holy scripture is shared is worthless to you because you don't believe holy scripture is truth.

Mark if holy scripture is half truths then where do you find the truth of your Lord Jesus?


~humble follower of the Rock and lover of The Eternals truth (KJV) Matt 16:18, Corin 10:4, 2 Thess 2:10 1 Pet 2:21
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/15/12




Follower, your name should have been "follower of a different Christ" because the Christ you proclaim is not the Christ of the Bible.
"Matthew 4:4 states to live by every word from God. 2 Timothy 3 states all scripture is given by inspiration of God"

The passage is talking about Scripture. It's called the Word of God, the Bible. But the Bible contains words of God, satan the serpent, and men, the writers and different man.
A true follower of Christ would know that in the Word of God, Descriptive passages relate what was said or what happened at a particular time. What God says, is true always, what man says, may or may not be true, what Satan says, usually mixes truth and error.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/12


*****************

MarkV: "No innocent person will ever suffer at His hand."

But Mark, I thought that you were a predestinationalist, and believed that some were "chosen" for torture before they were born. Certainly the unborn are innocent!


*********************
---jerry6593 on 8/15/12


Mark V, You talk much about belief in "the word of God" but the word is more than just the NT.
Do you think God just forgot to mention in the OT for 4 thousand years the fact that there was a fire in "hell"?
Sheol (translated hell) is mentioned 65 times in the OT. Nowhere does it say there's a fire there in fact 31 times it is translated "grave"!
Keeping it secret for 4 thousand years is just not how God operates!
Once you realize that Jesus was speaking figuratively it all begins to make sense!
---1st_cliff on 8/14/12


Matthew 4:4 states to live by every word from God. 2 Timothy 3 states all scripture is given by inspiration of God

Mark you casually throw out the Psalmist as an opinion? In light of 2 Timothy 3 you openly state select portions of Gods word are opinion? Yes, a convenient form of buffet style Christianity to erase the words of the Psalmist as opinion for purpose of making your denominations doctrines true. True followers of the Lord believe every word as written in Luke 4:4, we don't pick and choose. Interesting you claim I have wrong teaching when I quote the words of The Lord Jesus. Your truth is more special than the word of God? Your denominational doctrines are more important than the very words of The Lord? Interesting.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/14/12


1Cliff, God made the rules. Its as simple as that. He is Holy and righteous, I'm not. I put my faith in the Word of God. I might not like many things, but God is righteous and just. No matter how we analyze the concept of hell it often sounds to us as a place of cruel and unusual punishment. If, however, we take any comfort in the concept of hell, we can take it in the full assurance that there will be no cruelty there. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe or harsh than the crime. Cruelty in this sense is unjust. God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the earth will surely do what is right. No innocent person will ever suffer at His hand.
---Mark_V. on 8/14/12




Yes probably so, Hell is not the Lake of Fire. THAT will never be destroyed. Those in hell now AKA hades, sheol are waiting for the final judgement.

In the end both death AND hades are thrown in the lake of fire.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/12


God is love and nothing you believe about a litral hell-fire is loving!
---1st_cliff on 8/13/12

God is love yes. But God is also Holy. Hell (the eternal damnation away from God) is meant for Satan and his demons we were never meant to go there but when Adam and us choose to leave his protection we were condemned to go with Satan and his demons to Hell but Jesus the second Adam washed us back into God's kingdom.
---Scott1 on 8/14/12


1st Cliff, None of us are Holy as GOD is Holy. We are to strive to be holy as HE is Holy. But, we come from sinful backgrounds. Acknowledging this means that we cannot fathom GOD's complete way of seeing SIN as HE does, because of HIS extreme and perfect Holiness. We are sympathetic to people who are condemned to Damnation on account of their sin, because WE HAVE BEEN SINFUL, TOO. We dread to think of the real consequences of the Damned because we could be in the same boat as they! But, GOD says in the Scriptures "For MY Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways MY Ways..." ISAIAH 55:8. GOD's way of seeing sin far surpasses our view of it. HIS repulsion to Sin FAR SURPASSES our repugnance to it!
---Gordon on 8/14/12


Follower, when you give the Psalm you have to remember it is not God speaking, but the Psalmist, what he feels, sees and wants. (Psalm 104:35,) it is Psalmist closing what he had just said with a benediction to the Creator in which he prays that the ungodly might no longer spiritually pollute God's universe (104:35). This prayer anticipates the New heaven. Why don't you give the context when you give passages, instead of accusing someone of something you know nothing about? Every one of those passages have a context, you just throw them out and then say, your are following wrong teachings. Lets get to the Truth if that is what you are interested in.
---Mark_V. on 8/14/12


Mark V, **People in hell will wish they be destroyed so they could suffer no pain**
If it was within your power would you end their pain????
If you say yes, then your mercy is greater than God's. Since you believe He will not!
If you say no,then you have sadistic tendencies!
---1st_cliff on 8/13/12


In Psalm 104:35 wicked be consumed and will be no more. Malachi 4:1-3 states the wicked will be stubble and shall burn them up, and ashes under the soles of the righteous Psalm 37:9-12 states evildoers shall be cut of, and the wicked shall not be Psalm 37:20 states the wicked will perish (a word which means destroy or dissappear)

Gordon it is unfortunate you have embraced false teachings and repeat these lies too. The fire is unquenchable I never claimed it was a metaphor. If you could be honest with yourself you would see nothing in the verse you shared states that the people in the fire keep burning and never burn up. the real truth is found within the 5 scriptures I shared. As it is written in the word the wicked will burn up.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/13/12


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1Cliff, those words came from the Lord. Now I suspect they are symbols, but I find no relief in that. We must not think of them as being merely symbols. It is probable that the sinner in hell would prefer a literal lake of fire as his eternal abode to the reality of hell represented in the lake of fire image. If these images are indeed symbols, then we must conclude that the reality is worse than the symbol suggest. The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain. That Jesus used the most awful symbols imaginable to describe hell is no comfort to those who see them simply as symbols. People in hell will wish they be destroyed, so they could suffer no pain.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/12


Mark V, A place of dense darkness with a fire is ambiguous . Fire produces light!
Gnashing teeth?? If you examine the casket you'll still find teeth! Do they get a new set??? Then they must be eating food??
**presence of God**?? meaning God is also in this hell fire??
You're one mixed up guy Mark.
God is love and nothing you believe about a litral hell-fire is loving!
---1st_cliff on 8/13/12


Phil, you say,

"The spirit that brought forth the destructive teaching of endless torments has you in its grips."

Don't you know almost all biblical teaching about the Lake of fire come from the lips of Jesus Christ? Some, like you, pushed the limits of minimizing hell in an effort to sidestep or soften Jesus teachings. The Bible describes hell as a place of outer darkness, a lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesn't die. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fulness of His Divine wrath.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/12


Follower of Christ, That unquenchable Fire is not for the purpose of "cleansing the sin" from the Damned in Hell. They had a chance to be cleansed of their sin, while on Earth, by the Blood of the Lamb, but, they refused it! That Hell-Fire is UNQUENCHABLE, that is not a metaphorical word. It means exactly what it says! "Unquenchable" means that it's a Fire that CANNOT EVER BE PUT OUT. The Damned will be tormented by Fires that CANNOT EVER BE PUT OUT. That Fire is REAL FIRE that continually burns, for, the Fire is a two-edged sword. It's the Fire of the Wrath of GOD burning them. And, it's a Fire that continually burns them like the sinful passions they continually burned with while on Earth. In Hell, they all remain SINFUL!
---Gordon on 8/13/12


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Gordon wrote: GOD will DESTROY the Damned with unquenchable Fire! (MARK 9:44)


Correct the sinner is destroyed. Mark 9:44 where it is suggested to cut off thy foot to be cast into unquenchable fire. The analogy is the feet would be cleansed from sin because the purpose of fire is to cleanse. Those who will not repent will burn up in the fire. The fire cleanses and purges sin. Sin is purged through fire and those who do not repent are burned up so their sin does not continue to spread. Once the wicked burn up the sin does too.

Psalm 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/12/12


Gordon, Mark 9.44 says the fire (I believe is figurative) never goes out but it doesn't say the people never die!
People,back in the day, offered all manner of sacrifices to false gods including children but Jeremiah 32 singles out the throwing of humans in a fire!
"Never entered His mind" (He said)
After all his only begotten son was sacrificed ,but not in a fire!
BTW aborted fetuses are never offered to a god!
---1st_cliff on 8/12/12


1st Cliff, That warning of GOD, in JEREMIAH 32:35, to not "cause their sons and daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech" was PRINCIPALLY because Molech was a Satanic false god, so, to offer anything up to Molech was the same as worshipping Satan. Secondly, they were offering up children and BABIES up to Molech, which is the same thing as modern-day Abortion! GOD hates the killing of the Innocents. It's not so much the Fire, Cliff, it's what they are offering up into the fire and to WHOM they offer it (Satan). GOD will DESTROY the Damned with unquenchable Fire! (MARK 9:44)
---Gordon on 8/12/12


James L, You want scripture..
Jer.32.35.(KJV)And they built the high places of Baal which are in the valley of son of Hinnom to cause their sons and daughters to pass through the fire to molech which I commanded them not, neither CAME IT INTO MY MIND that they should do this abomination"
So literally burning people in a fire did not originate with God!
Saying he never thought of such a thing answers that question! Period!
---1st_cliff on 8/12/12


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1st Cliff, It's very possible that you, also, reject the truth of eternal Torments in Eternal Damnation because you could very well be on your way there at this very moment and just don't know it. For those who truly love and follow GOD have no fear of the Truth, but, readily accept the Truth, and live their lives accordingly. GOD is a GOD of HIS Word. When He admonishes us to go to the extremes to avoid Torments in Hell (MARK 9:43-48), and when He warns us against ending up in the Lake of Fire (REVELATION 14:9-11, REVELATION 20:14-15), it's because they're such horrid places. And, He warns that GOD can destroy a soul in Hell (MATTHEW 10:28). You'd be wise to wake-up, Cliff, your soul is in danger by virtue of believing a lie.
---Gordon on 8/12/12


1st Cliff,

why is it that you never have a scriptural rebutttal against the idea of eternal torment?

All you have is vain philosophy, and questions aimed at an emotional repsonse. Why no scriptures ??

Could it be that your position has no scriptural support ??

As much as you rail against Platonic thought, you sure don't mind employing his reasoning tactics when it suits you fancy

Hmmmm.
---James_L on 8/12/12


Gordon, **way too horrid**
Is this how you describe one of a loving God's creations???
That's like saying Hitler was really a nice guy!
BTW when did God "create" such a place?? it's not listed in Gen.1 as one of His creations?
Your problem, Gordon,and Mark, is that you can't differentiate between figurative and literal!
A loving, merciful God could not make a "horrible" place for mankind any more than you could make a torture chamber for a poor defenseless animal!
---1st_cliff on 8/11/12


Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded, and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The Lord Jesus stated in Revelation that his followers will reign with him on earth for ever and ever.

Hell destroyed? There are 4 definitions of hell one is the grave and the Lord will destroy death at his return, so in a sense the grave (or hell) will be destroyed when there is no more death

~humble follower of the Rock and lover of The Eternals truth (KJV) Matt 16:18, Corin 10:4, 2 Thess 2:10 1 Pet 2:21
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/11/12


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Phil, You are the one that is believing a LIE. Eternal Damnation is way too horrid for people to risk being deceived. I will always defend the Truth on this subject whenever someone comes along here and spreads falsehoods and LIES about it. It does not matter one bit that you so strongly believe that what you're believing (Annihilation for the Damned) is "true". Any LIE believed long enough by someone becomes "truth" to them. Connect the Scriptural Dots, Phil. Will you ever stop leaning on your own understanding, regarding the Truth of Eternal Damnation?
---Gordon on 8/10/12


because the Truth says, in the Scriptures, that Eternal Torments will be Forever and Ever (Again! REVELATION 14:10-11 *sigh!*)
---Gordon on 8/9/12

I will caution you this one time. Gordon. You resist the truth. It is not your fault. You have been seduced.

The spirit that brought forth the destructive teaching of endless torments has you in its grips.

You can be set at liberty, but it will cost you time and study. You need help.

Seek God for His mercy and humble yourself. Your creed has denied you access to God.
---Phil_Nickel on 8/9/12


Phil, GOD's Ways are higher than our ways
---Gordon on 8/8/12

Mercy, love, kindness, forgiveness, compassion, justice, tenderness, affection.

Re 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

He no doubt will be ecstatic seeing billions of His created ones writhing in endless agony.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

I praise God He has not left it up to ungodly human thought, but clearly reveals Himself in His Word.
---Phil_Nickel on 8/9/12


1st Cliff, ONCE AGAIN, your using "animals" in your analogy of GOD's Love is not at all valid because ANIMALS DO NOT SIN nor do they rebel against GOD. In fact, whatever harmful nature they have is a direct result of mankind's sin! Are you afraid of acknowledging Eternal Torments because you yourself are not sure if you're really saved or not? And that, perhaps, you may more than likely end up in Damnation? Just asking! Why else would you so vociferously defend the LIE of Annihilation? It sure isn't because of a love for the Truth, because the Truth says, in the Scriptures, that Eternal Torments will be Forever and Ever (Again! REVELATION 14:10-11 *sigh!*)
---Gordon on 8/9/12


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1Cliff, your using the worlds definition of mercy. from man's view.
(Eph. 2:1-10) will explain the mercy of God very well. Paul tells us that "we" believers were once walking according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of our mind, and were by nature children of wrath. But God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses made us alive together with Christ, for by grace we have been saved..." We deserved deah, but God had mercy on us. That is love.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/12


Mark V, Your answer to my question on mercy is ambiguous!
God is Love and if you look up the definition of love it does not include torture,inflicting pain, causing one to suffer etc...
Like most humans I love animals,and have had to have some "put down" out of mercy.
When a horse breaks a leg,do they toss it in the fire??? NO, out of mercy they end the suffering with a quick bullet
God is no less merciful with humans!
If your pet became viscious and aggressive would you torture it??? (no Mark we are not made that way) We are made in God's image!
---1st_cliff on 8/8/12


Phil, GOD's Ways are higher than our ways. You are using your own reasoning and human logic when you say that it doesn't make sense that "untold billions would suffer thousands of years of torment for a short lifetime of missing the mark". It is not about the amount of time of sinning that is being judged. It is the fact that one sins but does not truly repent of it and stop their sinning and then try to walk in GOD's Ways. We are spirit beings living in flesh-and-blood bodies. And, spirits are not "annihilated" and exterminated. They live on throughout Eternity. And, the Damned are eternally punished by being brought down LOW to the lowest conditions possible in the Lake of Fire. That is the TRUE "eternal Death".
---Gordon on 8/8/12


1Cliff, you say,

"Where's the love and mercy in the scenario that you preach???"

It's in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
"Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 5:20).
You want to see the Love?
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great Love" with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)"
(Eph. 2:4.5).
---Mark_V. on 8/8/12


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Phil, REVELATION 14:9-11 "...If any man worship the Beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same (man) shall drink of the Wine of the Wrath of GOD...and he shall be tormented with Fire and Brimstone...and the smoke of their (all men who receive the mark of the Beast) TORMENT ascendeth up FOR EVER AND EVER (ETERNALLY, NON-STOP), and they have NO REST day nor night (non-stop torment day and night, 24-hours a day, throughout Eternity) who worship the Beast and his image, and WHOSOEVER receiveth the mark of his name." REV.20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire."
---Gordon on 8/7/12


1Cliff, that is where you are wrong. My God is Ruler of all things and does what pleases Him. People like you have been rediculing Him since the beginning of time. If they don't see things their way, He is unjust. He ordered th slaughter of the Canaanites, women and children, and even animals. The slaughter of Hittites, Amorites, perizzites, Hivites, Jebusites for the survival of Israel. Is that unjust? He only gave the Laws of God to Israel, and the rest were condemned, is that just? You just don't know the God of the Bible. Somewhere you found it easier to argue like all others that because He wants to save some and not save the rest He is unjust. God has a purpose for all things, something you would never understand with your finite mind.
---Mark_V. on 8/7/12


Mark V,Sorry Mark it is you who is wrong, I did not say nor do I believe that God does this.
It's
those who preach that He does "that", err.Defaming God by putting Him in that light is setting Him up to ridicule!
There's no Justice in thousands of years of torture, above all God is Mercy!
Where's the love and mercy in the scenario that you preach???
It's all sadistic vengeance!(rooted in paganism) where they threw their children in volcanoes!
---1st_cliff on 8/6/12


There will be no purpose for sheol after this takes place:

1C 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Just as all died, all will be made alive.

He will restore all things by the power that raised Him out of death.

There is nothing just about untold billions of years of torment for a short lifetime of missing the mark.

Insanity and ignorance are the only supports for eternal torment.
---Phil on 8/6/12


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Phil, "And WHOSOEVER was not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life WAS CAST INTO the Lake of Fire." REVELATION 20:15
---Gordon on 8/6/12


1Cliff, Gordon is right, you are speaking from your point of view, your own feelings and thoughts and reasons, and they carry no load on God feelings, thoughts and reasons. You do not see from God's point of view, because you see a God who is unjust, but He never made anyone sin. They sinned because they wanted to sin. He knew what they would do and they did it. He didn't make them. You think you are the standard of righteousness and because of that you see God exercizing His power as wrong. But you are wrong O man, who are you to speak against God? You are but clay and God is the Potter.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/12


Gordon

Re 14:9 If any man worship the beast...The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God.

Re 16:2 and poured out his vial... and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast

Re 16:10 poured out his vial ...his kingdom was full of darkness, and they gnawed their tongues for pain

Re 19:20 and the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet... living they were cast--the two--to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone,

Re 20:10 and the Devil..was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.
---Phil on 8/5/12


I sure don't know if it gives God pleasure to see billions suffer for eternity, but the prospect of that suffering seems to enliven some people here by giving them some sort of pleasure.
---Smitty on 8/5/12


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1st Cliff, A "sadistic fiend" is one who gets pleasure out of seeing others in pain. That's not GOD. For, the Scriptures state that GOD has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. But, HE must execute eternal Punishment because HIS Holy nature and HIS Holy Laws demand it. Like when a parent spanks a child. Most parents do not like having to spank their children, but, they do it anyway because justice demands that disobedience be retributed. You're setting up a "straw man" when you insinuate that if the lost are eternally tormented that would mean that GOD "must be a sadistic fiend". It's GOD having to do what a Holy GOD must do in Righteous Judgment. Punish the unrepentant and rebellious criminals for their crime.
---Gordon on 8/5/12


Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

What this means is that there will be no more death, and there will be no more burial places for the dead.

No one will ever die again, no one will ever have to be buried again.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
---francis on 8/5/12


Phil, Just asking, but, Are you a "Satanic Plant"? Has Satan brought you here to deceive people and to twist the Scriptures? I'm serious. I ask, because YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE PLAIN HOLY SCRIPTURES. In REVELATION 14:11, the "their" is referring to the "any man" in Verse 9, and to the "he" in Verse 10. READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER 14, Phil. Man, are you ever missing it.
---Gordon on 8/5/12


Micha, **but for their understanding that God is true..weeping and gnashing teeth**
What is accomplished by this "literal" interpretation?
What good is it for these sorry individuals to know?
Since there is no escape or reprieve,it is an exersize in futility for no other reason than to see them languish in pain for sadists to gloat over and say with a smile "I told you so" and paint God as a sadistic fiend!
Even today in some circumstances euthanasia is merciful,the wicked will simply be euthanized God is Mercy and Just!
In the "flood" it took only a few minutes to drown!
---1st_cliff on 8/5/12


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The Damned will be eternally tormented.. the Bible says that For the smoke of their Torment (in the Lake of Fire) will ascend For Ever and Ever (REV. 14:10-11). Gordon on 8/3/12

There are only three that are tormented.

It is not endless. It lasts as long as day and night, preceeding the New Heavens and Earth.

Re 19:20 And the beast was taken.. and with him the false prophet

Re 14:11 And the smoke of their (Adversary, beast, false prophet) torment ascendeth up for ever and ever

Re 19:20 These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Re 20:10 And the devil.. the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You err.
---Phil on 8/4/12


Cliff: The earth's surface is purified with fire in the lake of fire. This is the ONLY "hell fire" that the Bible speaks of. It will completly (and eternally) destroy all the wicked, including Satan and his angels. No one will survive this hell fire to continue in torment. The earth will then become the garden of God.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
---jerry6593 on 8/4/12


1stCliff
My analogy stands in the fact that man does not know if a person is guilty or not.
God already does and confinement before arraignment conviction, and imprisonment is not because they may "escape", but for their understanding that God is True and He will hold them accountable, hence the "weeping" sorrow and the "gnashing of teeth" anger.
How can one weep and gnash his teeth when he is dead?
---micha9344 on 8/4/12


No one in Heaven will ever experience death again. Gordon on 8/3/12

The Scripture do not confine deathlessness to one group.

1C 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Did death come to all?
Yes, it did.

Will all be made alive?
Yes, they will.

Men have limited God with their falsehoods and creeds, and left a legacy of evil darkness for the saints to muck around in.
---Phil on 8/4/12


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Micha9344,Your analogy is flawed in that in our judicial system all are "presumed" innocent 'till proven guilty.
By the same token you would have to believe that millions of innocents are in a fiery place for thousands of years...this does not match that fact that God is "Just"!
The reason people are jailed before trial is so they don't run away,bail is asked for for surety if they are not jailed!
Their jail time is not punishment but public safety!
---1st_cliff on 8/3/12


Phil, I CORINTHIANS 15:26 says "The last Enemy that shall be destroyed is Death." It means that Death will be done away with. No one in Heaven will ever experience death again. Death will not be anything that those, who live forever in Heaven on the New Earth, will have to ever experience again. No more dying, in other words! It is NOT saying "The Dead or Damned will be annihilated." For the smoke of their Torment (in the Lake of Fire) will ascend For Ever and Ever (REV. 14:10-11). Where there is Smoke, there is ALWAYS Fire. Do you deny the Laws of Nature that GOD set in motion? Plain and simple words do not need to be philosophically scrutinized in order to comprehend them.
---Gordon on 8/3/12


1st Cliff, And, what exactly is a "grave"? A burial place for dead bodies? Likewise, Hell is the "grave", that is, the place where spiritually dead souls are kept. Souls that are "alive" but are SPIRITUALLY DEAD and have no purpose for existing except to receive eternal punishment and torments for their sins and their rebellion against Almighty GOD. The dirt on the ground is the burial place for dead physical bodies and Hell is for spiritually dead souls. And, Hell also means "hidden" or "covered". For the dead physical bodies are "covered" by dirt, and, the spiritually dead and damned souls are "hidden" from our view, in Hell, way below Earth's surface.
---Gordon on 8/3/12


"...whereas, the Lake of Fire will be the eternal dwelling place of Torments for those same Damned... The Lake of Fire is ETERNAL" Gordon on 8/2/12

1C 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1C 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

In light of what you say, that the dead live(?) eternally in torment, and what God says He is going to do, abolish death, how can there be dead "souls" if death is abolished in victory?

How do you believe the dead live forever, yet God destroys death, and then again, He doesn't?
---Phil on 8/3/12


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"Eternal Damnation...Eternity
Hell is the temporary dwelling place of torments...
eternally-burning Lake of Fire." Gordon on 8/1/12

1C 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Again, using false expressions, not God's words, leads to fables and myth-making, Gordon.

You are a victim.

All die through Adam.
All are made alive in Christ.

It is either you, or God who is telling the truth.
---Phil on 8/3/12


Smitty, You obviously don't seem to understand how horrific Hell is, nor, do you seem to understand that MORE people are going there, than not. You don't get, it seems, the need to clarify the truths about Hell and Eternal Damnation so that all involved may make a wiser choice regarding the condition of their souls in light of Eternity. It'd be wise to do some honest research on Heaven, Hell and the Lake of Fire.
---Gordon on 8/2/12


1st Cliff, The Lake of Fire is ETERNAL. The Damned will be eternally tormented in the Lake of Fire. That's why the Bible says that "...the smoke of their Torments ascendeth up Forever and ever..." Forever means non-stop. Hell will be "cast into" the Lake of Fire. That means all of the inhabitents of Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
---Gordon on 8/2/12


Gordon you explained that perfectly. I can't remember where it is in my kjv but hell enlarges itself to accommodate people who are constantly going there. I will find it and repost
---Shira4368 on 8/2/12


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1stcliff,
Aren't people arrested and put in jail before they are convicted and put in prison?
There is logic to those that employ logic and chaos to those that don't
---micha9344 on 8/2/12


Cluny,Actually there are 3 words in Greek translated "hell",the third is Tartarus ,a place of dense darkness!
Hades is the equivalent of Sheol(Heb.)and sheol is translated "grave" 31 times in the OT.
7/31/12 you said **Where did you get the idea hell was on earth?** (answer- from the bible)
---1st_cliff on 8/2/12


Cluny, Hell gets about as much attention around here as the one who is given credit for being God. So maybe it is a sort of god.
---Smitty on 8/1/12


There are two words in Greek that are generally both rendered "hell" in most English versions:

1. Hades, or abode of the dead, corresponding with the Hebrew SHEOL.

2. Gehenna, or place of eternal punishment.

Generally in my liturgical translations, I use SHEOL for the first and GEHENNA for the second, especially since "hades" and "hell" have become trivialized in everyday speech.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/1/12


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In attempting to stay with the faulty King James Version, there are some things to consider

Re 20:13...and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Hell, a mistranslation of hades, ceases it's purpose. It is composed of all who ever died. When the are resurrected to condemnation, it is emptied of its contents, and no longer exists. The second death consumes all that enters into it.

1C 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

If the KJV translators were faithful, they would have used hell instead of grave.
---Phil on 8/1/12


Gordon, Your explanation defies all logic:
The "damned" have allready been judged and cast into hell,then they are judged a 2nd time with the same fate...God doesn't do things just as an exercise for no particular reason.
Surely you can come up with something better than that!
---1st_cliff on 8/1/12


Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire (REVELATION 20:14). Hell and the Lake of Fire are two different places. Hell is the temporary dwelling place of torments for the Damned, whereas, the Lake of Fire will be the eternal dwelling place of Torments for those same Damned. One future day, after the 1,000-Year Reign of King YAHUSHUA (JESUS) on Earth, all of the souls of the Damned will be pulled up out of Hell and will stand in Judgment before God on His Great White Throne. Then, each one will be cast into the eternally-burning Lake of Fire.
---Gordon on 8/1/12


\\Cluny, All the dialog I've had with fundamentalists tells me they believe that hell-fire is beneath the earth.\\

And who said that fundamentalists are usually right?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/31/12


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who said the earth will be destroyed? maybe, destroyed as we know it.

but, congratulations on out-thinking those who do not read well. just because you debunk the logic of fundamentalists who think they know the truth does not mean that you necessarily do.
---aka on 7/31/12


\\So you're saying there's fire in outer space???
---1st_cliff on 7/31/12\\

I'm saying, along with St. John Chrysostom, that it's not in this created universe at all.

**The bible teaches that heaven and earth shall pass away but hell is eternal.
---Smitty on 7/31/12**

Since only God is eternal, are you saying that hell is God or a god?

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/31/12


As hell is, now, yes it will be destroyed, I understand through Revelation 20:14-21:1.

But the lake of fire and brimstone hell will not be destroyed.

The earth in its present corruptible condition will be destroyed . . . but then resurrected in "the glorious liberty of the children of God." (consider Romans 8:20-21) And I can see the lake will be inside the new earth, holding all the filth and sewer buckets of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2) Satan is a gob of this sewage, and do not be a sewer bucket of his nasty filth. Hell is practical . . . a place for keeping his filth and those who volunteer to be helper buckets. Not a job I want.
---willie_c: on 7/31/12


Hell in English is a bundled term representing several different Hebrew and Greek terms with varying definitions until you specify a specific Hebrew or Greek term you cant answer this question correctly.
---Blogger9211 on 7/31/12


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Cluny, All the dialog I've had with fundamentalists tells me they believe that hell-fire is beneath the earth.
Luke16 says that the rich man died and was "buried" and in hell saw Abraham afar off!
Some have told me it's under a volcano or in the heart of the earth!
So you're saying there's fire in outer space???
---1st_cliff on 7/31/12


Where did you get the idea that hell was on earth?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/31/12


The bible teaches that heaven and earth shall pass away but hell is eternal.
---Smitty on 7/31/12


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