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Does God Know Every Thought

Do you believe God knows what we are going to do before we do it?

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 ---Phil on 8/1/12
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The Lord Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Man is but clay. Adam was clay.
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not. For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." (Rom. 9:14-16). And God says,
"For the Scriptures says to the Pharaoh, For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth" (Rom. 9:17). God raised Pharaoh up, protected him from harm so that he would be Pharaoh.
---Mark_V. on 8/25/12


Jesus Christ was not made from the dust of the ground as Adam. Anyone trying to promote this view no matter how much Hebrew and Greek they know, is attempting to undermind the deity of Christ. Jesus Christ was, is, and always will be God.
Luke 19:10) "does not" say that Christ came here to seek and to save "all the lost" Two thirds of human history had already run its course before Jesus came into the world incarnated. Half the human race was already in hell when He entered Bethlehem's manger.
Christ "did not come" here to see if there were any who would seeketh after Him. (Romans 3:11) emphatically declares "there is none that seeketh after God".
---Mark_V. on 8/25/12


God know every soul/spirit He created:
Strgs # 2597,2596,939 Kata-bain [Come down from heaven]

Jn 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but [He That came down (katabaino) from heaven], [even]( the Son of man Which is in heaven)
*["And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but (He That came down from (heaven),]
Ecc 12:7-14 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."[...]
Placed in adamah...It is for this reason it is called a House or tabernacle.

The Word of God is Housed in flesh/adamah.
The spirit/soul of mankind is house in adamah.
---char on 8/24/12


1 Cor 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Praise God for His mercy and Grace.
He is a True, Just and Fair God
---char on 8/24/12


Why has thou made me thus? Blaming the Potter.

Strgs:1690, 2082 5445 Lump: figs, to press together, a cake of pressed Figs, swelling, knead
127 adamah soil country, earth, ground, husband [man] land
Jer18(all)
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
4And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Marred -7843 shachath (shaw-khath'), a primitive root, to decay (causatively) ruin (literally or figuratively)-- batter, cast off, corrupt (-er, thing), destroy (-er, -uction), lose, mar, perish, spill, spoiler, utterly, waste
---char on 8/24/12




God knows-mankinds heart--Reason,His Word Housed In flesh... sent-Repentance/Remission.
Prov16:4(Hebrew)
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the [wicked-ra'-sha] for the day of evil-[ra'].
[Ra-sha] defined dysfunction "to depart from the (path) and become lost".
The course through life God outlined within His Word
Tsadyq- one who (remains) on the (path)
There is a path that leads to God(His Word)
There is a path that does not lead to God.Anti-another word.
Two paths, one leads to Timeless existence, the other does not.
First AdamGrk#76 Heb 120/127 of adamah,sinned. Wages= Destruction/death/enter into the world.
Rom5:12
First and last Adam Grk#76
"the red earth"
---char on 8/24/12


Man is responsible for his actions, God never makes anyone sin. The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them." (Rom. 1:18,19). But it was all known to God before the foundation of the world that they would reject Him for God is Omniscient (all knowing) and were ordained to be what God knew they would be.
"Who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, "which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal" (2 Tim. 1:9). God has always known His children.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/12


Romans 9:21 is not speaking of Adam and Jesus.
Paul had just said:
"But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will "the thing formed say to him who formed it," why have you made me like this?"
God didn't formed Adam and Jesus out of the same lump of clay. He was not formed from the same dust of the ground as Adam? That's adding to Scripture, and changing the very nature of Christ, "For that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 1:20).
What Paul is arguing in (Rom. 9:21) is that it is as irrational and far more arrogant, for men to question God's choice of certain sinner for salvation, as for a piece of pottery to question the purposes of the Potter.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/12


"Good to see you posting sister,

Blessings...
---char on 8/22/12 "
Thank you char. It's a blessing and pleasure to be here and I've missed having oportunity to post. Much I hope to share soon. God bless
---chria9396 on 8/23/12


Gods Character: Just/Fair Jn3:15-20

*That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

*For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

*He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

*And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because [their deeds were evil.]

Their deeds--Not Gods
---char on 8/23/12




Nothing said changes the Sovereign will of God, especially not man's will, who is a sinner.
The lost we are told, seek not God. If left to themselves they would continue in their state of rebellion and refuse all offers of salvation, Christ would then have died in vain. The work of God in redemption has been rendered effective through the mission of the Holy Spirit who so operates on the chosen people that they are brought to repentance and faith, and thus made heirs of eternal life. As long as man remains in his carnal state he will always be at enmity against God. He needs the Holy Spirit to change his disposition, he must be born again from above (John 3:3).
---Mark_V. on 8/23/12


3627,3615 Vessel: Whatsoever, pot, something prepared, weapon,instrument
3709,3713 Wrath:desire, violent, justifiable, punishment, anger, vengeance

Gen 2:17[...]for in the day- thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

[Vessel] now [fitted-prepared/instrument] Sin-[wrath to punishment]-

Yet, Not for eternal/timeless existence--Tree of Life-Not Eaten.

Gen 3:7 "And the eyes of them both were opened[...]knew that they were naked,[...]sewed fig leaves together [...]made themselves aprons."

Gen 3:22 "And the Lord God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and [take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:-"]
---char on 8/22/12


//---Chria9396 on 8/19/12//

Agree, Good to see you posting sister,

Blessings...
---char on 8/22/12


2nd posting-

Two vessels: One lump of clay-two vessels, one brought on destruction the other brought mercy

127 [adamah soil country, earth, ground, husband [man] land]
3627 vessel:from 3615 whatsoever, pot, something prepared, utensil, weapon,instrument
3709 wrath from 3713 desire, violent passion, justifiable, punishment, anger, vengeance
120 adam-a human being, mankind
121-adam , same as 120, the name of the first man
127 adamah soil country, earth, ground, husband [man] land
1690, 2082 5445 Lump: figs, to press together, a cake of pressed Figs, swelling, knead
Adam: First and second-vessels, lump

Gen 2:7 "the adam" formed of the "adamah".
Jn1:14 Word became flesh
Rom 5(all)
---char on 8/22/12


Character of God: True just and fair God

1690, 2082 5445 Lump: figs, to press together, a cake of pressed Figs, swelling, knead

127 adamah soil [country], earth, ground, husband [man] land

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Jer 18:8 ["If]...that nation, against whom I have pronounced, [turn from their evil], I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them."

Jer 18:10 ["If]... it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them

Mat 27:9-10
---char on 8/22/12


2nd posting-
Rom 9:21 "Hath not the potter power over the clay, and the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

One vessel unto dishonor: Adam
One vessel unto honor: Jesus Christ (Word became flesh)
One vessel unto dishonor: First Adam,
One vessel unto Honor: Second Adam Jesus Christ (Word became flesh)

Both: Vessel one lump

First Adam:Gen 2:7, Gen 2:17,Gen 3:19, Rom 5:12
Second Adam: Is 9:6-7Jn1:14,Acts10:38-43,Rev 21:4

I Cor 15:21 "For since by man [Adam] came death, by man [Christ] came also the resurrection of the dead."
---char on 8/22/12


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Josef 2: The passage I gave is (John 1:12,13). John said Jesus was in the world and the world was made through Him, yet the world did not know Him. After He grew up His own did not receive Him. "But" he says, As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God." And who were these man?
"Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" John was not speaking about the indwelling Spirit which was to come at Pentecost. This believers were born of God. Born of the Spirit. And everyone who believe by faith, is born of God. Only those. After Jesus was glorified, the Holy Spirit begin to indweel all believers only and sealed them.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/12


Bro. Josef, there is always peace between you and I. I always love your answers. And anything we share is for the glory of God.
You mentioned that the Spirit was not given until Pentecost, but you are talking about the indwelling of the Spirit. I am talking about been born of the Spirit. You have to be born of God in order to be indwelled and sealed by the Spirit. Only those born of God are the ones who believe.
"But as many as received Him, to them (only) He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" and now we find out who those people are,
"Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God" Jesus had not been incarnated yet.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/12


Lets clear something,

"//The Holy Spirit was not offered to all men until after Jesus was glorified---"

The Holy Spirit is not offered to all men. The Holy Spirit indwells believers only. Only those born of God are indwelled and sealed by the Spirit and become one body in Christ. Some sinners (not all) are made alive by God as Ephesians explains concerning those who believe."
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trepasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience..."
The sons of disobedience are not indwelled by the Spirit, another spirit is now at work in them.


---Mark_V. on 8/22/12


//The Holy Spirit was not offered to all men until after Jesus was glorified---Josef on 8/21/12///

--I think I understand and agree

In the beginning was the Word (Jn1:14)
My understanding: The Holy Spirit (God confirming His Word)Jn15:26,Jn16:26-28,1Cor2

Those who believed His Word---Saints.
(Matt27:51-53,John7:14-18,Lk24:27, 1Jn 5(all)vs6-12)
Rom 8:11 (The Spirit Rose Jesus from the dead) This is the Spirit and Truth as One conquering Death itself Heb 2:14(God swearing by Himself confirming His Word spoken and written) Is 45:23, Is 43:11, Is 45:25
(God knows the Heart)Jer17:9-10

Blessings/Shalom
---char on 8/21/12


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"They cannot call unless God makes them alive to Christ by His Spirit. Only believers call upon God." Mark_V Exactly. "And this is the work of God, that [one] believe in Him whom He sent." For "no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit." Yet, The Holy Spirit was not offered to all men until after Jesus was glorified. Refs. Jhn 6:29>1Cr 12:3>Jhn 7:39 Refs for the previous post Rom 10:14>Act 14:16>Act 17:28-30>Hbr 10:26 Mark thank you for taking the time to read and comment on my post. I will keep your comments concerning this subject in mind as I continue my studies. Thank you for extending peace to me. I extend the same to you brother, the peace that is of Jesus .
---Josef on 8/21/12


Any attempt to discredit God of His right to do what He wills with His creation is futile. "Jehovah hath made everything for its own mean, Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil" (Prov. 18:4)
To those who parish Paul say,
"God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie" (2 Thess. 2:11)
They are called to behold these things in an external way, to wonder, and to go on perishing in their sins.
John adds,
"For this cause they could not believe, for that Isaiah said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and He hardened their heart, lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart, And should turn, And I should heal them" John 12:39,40.
---Mark_V. on 8/21/12


Reminder: What is Written
Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

There [Is No]...

*speech

*language

*where their voice is...[not heard.]

Ps19(All)1-5
The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
[Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.]
[There is no speech] [nor language], [where their voice is not heard.]
Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

(all)Rom1:19-21[...]became vain in [their imaginations]...
---char on 8/20/12


Does not say they were created ( not to believe)
Does not say they (did not know God exist)
Does not say God for no reason, decided (To create them for the sole purpose of perishing them.)

[Palai] Of old, former, long ago
(Denying the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ,)

To the language: Hebraic perspective...pre-babel
God: Timeless/invisible/Spirit
Cycles:--- 0--- Hebraic and correct view of worlds in time Heb11:3

The past is in-front (can see--past)
The future is behind (cant see future)
Jn1:1 In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
1Jn1:2

Praise God-True, just and fair God.
---char on 8/20/12


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Not created for the sole purpose of perishing...

Jude 4[...] *[before of old ordained] to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and [denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."]
*(Before of old ordained)...does not say (created for the sole purpose of perishing them.)
***Before ordained [prographo] means [before written]
*[Palai]-Of old, former, long ago...it does not mean --Created.
It is for this reason... [therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this]
Jude 5 "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the People out of the land of Egypt, (afterward destroyed them that believed not.")
---char on 8/20/12


Char, (Jude 4) does tell us that,
" there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men," They were ordained to this condemnation.
Paul declares that the "vessels of wrath" which by the Lord were "fitted unto destruction" were "endured with much long suffering" in order that He might "show His wrath and make His power known" and with these are contrasted the "vessels of mercy, which He afore prepared unto glory" in order "that He might make known the riches of His glory" upon them" (Rom. 9:22,23).
---Mark_V. on 8/20/12


Char, yes, the LORD Jesus Christ truly is our only hope, there is no other, there is NO OTHER name by which we must be saved. I appreciate all of your posts. Cant comment on all now, but the Lord blesses.
And MarkV, char, yes, praise Him for His mercy and love. Behold what manner of love the Father has given unto us! ! Jn 3:1-
---Chria9396 on 8/19/12


Brother Josef, you said,
" MarkV But how are men to call upon Him in whom they have not believed?"
They cannot call unless God makes them alive to Christ by His Spirit. Only believers call upon God.
God doesn't overlook anyone and saves them because they did not hear the gospel. We are told in (Rom. 2:11) "There is none who seeks God" how can they call if they don't seek God? (Rom. 1:18-21) says, they are without excuse. "Because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them" The other nations knew the God of Israel, so they had some knowledge of God. But gospel provisions were never given to other nations but Israel. the others died in their sins. peace.
---Mark_V. on 8/19/12


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**Denying: (and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.")
Believed not: (afterward destroyed them that believed not.")

Jude 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

**Knew and denied: (the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ)

From age to age the Word of God,( I Am That I AM and Will Be what I Will be) is unchangeable, Timeless within all ages.
---char on 8/19/12


"For all are condemned already for not believing and trusting in the Lord of whom they never heard of." MarkV But how are men to call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? In past generations he allowed all the nations to walk in their own ways, [However] being God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, represented by the art and imagination of man. This time of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent, [And] if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth,.. [condemnation comes].
---Josef on 8/19/12


God knows everything and knows every step we take and which way we will go.
"Jehovah hath made everything for it own end: Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil" (Prov. 16:4).
Christ said to the wicked for "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, for they stumble at the word, being disobedient, "whereunto also they were appointed". (1 Peter 2:8).
"For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old "written of beforehand to this condemnation" ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" (Jude 4).
---Mark_V. on 8/19/12


Praising Almighty God Who (Exist-I Am) true, just and fair.
Who- According to (His Word) -- (Always) provided a witness to mankind That (He Exist-ehyeh'asher'ehyeh). Evidence: there is no hope apart from His Grace (In Christ-Anointed Word spoken/written).
Ps19(All) vs1-5

The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
Rom 1:19-20
---char on 8/18/12


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Rom 1:19-20

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:

Praising Almighty God Who (Exist-I Am) true, just and fair.
Who- According to (His Word) -- (Always) provided a witness to mankind That (He Exist-ehyehasherehyeh). Evidence: there is no hope apart from His Grace (In Christ-Anointed Word spoken/written).
Ps19(All) vs1-5

Gen 11:1 "And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech."
---char on 8/18/12


We can sure say,
Praise Jesus Christ for His mercy. Because He walked into that courtroom, and He stood between the Judge and "the guilty person (us the believers)," and said, I will serve his sentence. He took other peoples sin upon Himself. He took upon Himself sin to such an extent that He became sin. He became vile and detestable in Gods eyesthe most vile and detestable thing that could ever existand God the Father poured out the full measure of His wrath upon Him. He poured out His wrath upon Christ until that wrath was absorbed and exhausted, until every bit of justice was satisfied.
Thank you Lord for your great mercy.
---Mark_V. on 8/18/12


//Israel as His Witness: That He Is God
Is 43,44 (All),Ez33(All), Matt10(All)vs,Jn6(All vs:70-71,//
---char on 8/15/12//

Praise God for His mercy and Grace
---char on 8/17/12


Char, your answer changes nothing. Millions upon millions of people, in fact, all the other nations never had the chance to hear the Gospel. It was not provided for them. If God who is Almighty wanted to provide the Gospel to everyone, He could have done it. So all of them died in their sins. For all are condemned already for not believing and trusting in the Lord of whom they never heard of. Hear the words of Paul in the synagoge at Antioch in Pisidea:
"Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and parish, for I work a work in your days, A work which ye shall in no wise believe, if one declare it unto you' (Acts 13:41).
---Mark_V. on 8/17/12


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//that whosoever does not believe is condemned already.//
believe what?
Who's deed? Not the deeds of God/
Jn 3:16-20(all)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Cont'
---char on 8/16/12


The real fact is, that for centuries the Jews, who were very few in number, were the only people to whom God was pleased to make any special revelation of Himself---MarkV


Yeah like the Jews in Ninevah... lol
---LindaH on 8/16/12


Char, a great passage (John 3:16).
Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Which also means in the context, "that whosoever does not believe is condemned already."
"He who believes in Him is not condemned, "but he who does not believe is condemned already," because he has not believed in the name of the only Begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)

And since none of the other nations ever received the Gospel, they were condemned already for they did not believe. God did not make provisions for them. As you said,
He came for the lost sheep of Israel.
---Mark_V. on 8/16/12


Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Luke 24:27


I only add,

Amen.
---char on 8/15/12


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Matthew 10:6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

"Go to the Jews?", or "Go to Judah"?

No,

"Go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel".
Matthew 10:6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

//Israel as His Witness: That He Is God
Is 43,44 (All),Ez33(All), Matt10(All)vs,Jn6(All vs:70-71,//
---char on 8/15/12


The real fact is, that for centuries the Jews, who were very few in number, were the only people to whom God was pleased to make any special revelation of Himself. Jesus confined His public ministry almost exclusively to them and forbade His disciples to go among others until after the day of Pentecost (Matt. 10:5,6:28:19: Mark 16:15: Acts 1:4). Multitudes were left with no chance to hear the Gospel, and consequently died in their sins. If God had intented to save them undoubtedly He would have sent them the means of salvation. If He had chosen to Christianize India and China a thousand years ago, He most certainly could have accomplished His purpose. Instead they were left in gross darkness and unbelief.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/12


Has mankind resisted Gods will? Yes.
But No one has or can ever resist His intention.
Israel as His Witness: That He Is God
Is 43,44 (All),Ez33(All), Matt10(All)vs,2-4 Jn6(All) vs:70-71,

His Will: [thelo]//that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.//

Ex 33:19
And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee, and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy

Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Luke 24:27

Praising Father for His Mercy/Grace...
---char on 8/11/12


Has mankind resisted Gods will? Yes,
But No one has or can ever - resisted His intention.

Israel as His Witness: That He Is God
Is 43,44 (All),Ez33(All), Matt10(All)vs,Jn6(All vs:70-71,

His intention: [boulema]// For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son//

1.Plan of Salvation executed Carried out: Death and resurrection of His Word in flesh, Son of God, Jesus Christ[Ysha] defined:God is Salvation.
2. Put to death: Death itself [HaSatan]Heb2:14,
3. Path to Him/ Kingdom Keys: Repentance unto Remission Is55:11,Lk24:27,Rev3
Rom 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth
(Resistance to accomplish His Intention)Ex7:2-3

cont'
---char on 8/11/12


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Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Phil 2 (All)
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies[...]Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves[...]Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others[...]
Is 45:18

Amen.
---char on 8/10/12


Char, I don't believe there is any reason for a person to try to bash the Sovereignty of God to proof a point. I see athiest and others quote what you quoted. There is lots of Scripture that could use to make a point and you seem to know Hebrew and Greek. But in answer to your question the answer is yes, He choose to save some and not others. That is pretty clear since it is He who gives life to whom He want to give life to. He has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy on.
"For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion, "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy" (Rom. 9:15,16).
---Mark_V. on 8/10/12


No need to change my words also.

//Do you believe God created some for the sole purpose of perishing them?//

Again, as stated without change,

//Phil, Trying to find agreements, please bare with me//
---char on 8/9/12


Yes...simply answered.
However, a better answer to the question is the question:
What impact does the omniscience (the characteristic of God that states He knows everything) of God have on your life?
---Khe on 8/9/12


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Phil, Char has a very good question for you. I would think it could have been put very differently. Like:
"Do you think that God elects some to salvation and the others He by passess?"
I would have sounded better then how she said it, since God is not obligated to save anyone. That He saves any is the miracle. A good example is the giving of the gospel to the nation of Israel, and the none giving of the gospel and destruction of all the other nations. They weren't even given the Gospel, it went only to Israel. If God wanted to save them all, the Gospel would have been given to all nations, and everyone would have had a choice to accept or reject it. There are many other examples other then the one I just gave.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/12


Phil, Trying to find agreements, please bare with me.
God executes His Plan through whoever - He will, however, the elect, chosen before the foundation of the world, he declares Witnesses (Is43) in executing His plan of Salvation in Flesh/age (if I could call it that).
All are His-Created(from himself/invisible/spirit)-came from Him --breath[ruahh] into the flesh[adamah] He formed[bara]. Believers/non-believers alike would not even be here(visible/tangible world) inhaling, if they[iysh/ adamah/vessel of clay]were not filled with His breath[ruahh]. Gen1:26-27,Gen2:7,Ecc12:7,Ez18:4

Hebraic perspective:
Mankind composed of three entities: body/breath/mind.
Body:flesh/bones/blood
Mind:thoughts/emotions
Breath:ones character
---char on 8/9/12


//Phil on 8/5/12// May agree and differ to some extent.

Do you believe God created some for the sole purpose of perishing them?

Or that function and dysfunction is established for the purpose of balance and that the only way for one to walk in balance/completeness is In-Christ? That choice being -Ysha Christ- following the instructions of God through His Word?

My understanding,
There is One God, He spoke and He moves
Spoke His Word-Moves in testifying/confirming it.

Elect: chosen before the foundation of the world for the purpose of execution. Not that they were created for the sole purpose of being saved and others created for the sole purpose of perishing.
It is the process of elimination
---char on 8/9/12


Phil 2: You are assuming that God is here for you, but that is not true at all. It is after all His plan, not ours. Everything that is in His plan will happen because He ordained it to happen and is complete already before Him, the only thing is that we are only seeing His plan unfold through time. And no matter the choice we make He already knows. Everything is included and not one thing is missing. If God was a God of time, He would be learning and gaining knowledge as time goes by, and would have to have different plans every times something didn't go His way, but He is a Almighty God who knows all things. Nothing escapes His sight. If some molecule escaped His sight, that molecule would be more powerful then God.
---Mark_V. on 8/8/12


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Phil, you are looking at things from your point of view, Man's. God is always right no matter what He does. There is no injustice in Him. All with a plan. He permits sin to continue, is He guilty? He ordered the slaughter of many nations, is He guilty? It was for the survival of Israel, and doom for others, is He guilty? He ordered the death angel to kill all first born children, was He guilty? It's all written in Scripture.
He knew the guy in Colorado was going to kill so many and allowed it to happen, is He guilty? If you prayed for someone whose sick and they died, is He guilty?
Man want, a God who will think like them and do what they do, but God is God, His ways are not our ways or His thoughts our thoughts. We deserve only death.
---Mark_V. on 8/7/12


Mark_v,

I used the analogy of being an accessory to a crime if you are aware of a perpetrators intentions, and do not intervene.

Would it be any different if God knows ahead of time we are going to do wrong, and "knowing everything before it happens", He does nothing to prevent it?

How do you extricate God from being an accessory, if we as human beings demand justice for failing to prevent evil?

You may say."we choose" to commit evil, not God, but if He knows ahead of time, He is just as culpable.

I do not believe "God does what He wants" is a satisfactory response. He is Just, more than us, and could not know ahead of time.
---Phil on 8/7/12


Phil, you said,

"Scripture does not assign to God the "all-knowing" of what we will do next."
How could God foreknow and not know what we will do next? That is not rational.

"He know our hearts, our desires, our thoughts. Indeed, He knows everything about us." Everything, including what you will do next.

"The circumstances of our lives are arranged by Him, not our choices." True.

"Our choices are not pre-determined by God. We are disposers of our own lot, as is HE." Yes, we are deposers of our own lot the reason we are held accountable, but they were predestine to be that way, only you didn't know they would, God did, (Ezek. 11:5).
---Mark_V. on 8/7/12


Mark_v

It is very good, the things you say.
---Phil on 8/5/12


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Let's take it to the next level.

Scripture does not assign to God the "all-knowing" of what we will do next.

He know our hearts, our desires, our thoughts. Indeed, He knows everything about us.

The circumstances of our lives are arranged by Him, not our choices.

Our choices are not pre-determined by God. We are disposers of our own lot, as is HE. We are created in His image, with a will to do as we see fit, just like the Creator.

His counsel will stand. He knows the end from the beginning, for He will arrange the universe to accomplish it, and none can stop Him.
---Phil on 8/5/12


Phil 2: And since God is omniscience, He tells us if we have an ear to hear,
"For I know the things that come into your mind, everyone of them" (Ezek. 11:5). Though He is invisible to us, we are not so to Him.
"Thou know my downsitting and mine uprising, Thou understantest my thoughts afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue but, lo O Lord. Thou knowest it altogether" (Psa. 139:2-4).
The apprehension of His Omniscience ought to bow us in adoration before Him, but instead how little we know about His divine perfections. Some don't want to know the God of Scripture. The very thought of it fills us with uneasiness.
---Mark_V. on 8/5/12


Phil, we should be reminded that when we study about God, we should start with God as the beginning point. But because of our humanism, many start from man's point of view first and work their way to God. Humanism always ends where it starts, namely man. The predicament in which we sinners find ourselves is so utterly hopeless the divine redemption is our only way out. The word of God proves beyond all doubt that He is our point of beginning. The passage is found in (Eph. 1:4-12). "He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world..." And Romans 11:29) tells us,
"..But concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers, For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
---Mark_V. on 8/4/12


Leviticus 5:1 "If a person sins because he does not speak up when he hears a public charge to testify regarding something he has seen or learned about, he will be held responsible."
Leviticus 19:16 "'Do not go about spreading slander among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am the LORD."
Matthew 19:18 "... Thou shalt not bear false witness, ..."
Acts 22:20 "And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him."
---Nana on 8/3/12


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Phil, the answer is Yes, God knows everything. In fact He already told us how it will end. Josef, gave great passages. Here is another,
"There are many devices in a man's heart, nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand" (Prov. 19:21).
"But He knoweth the way that I take" (Job 23:10). The wicked would strip Deity of His Omniscience if they could, what proves that the carnal mind is enmity against God. The wicked, do as naturally hate this Divine perfection as much as they naturally compelled to acknowledge it. They wish there might be no Witness of their sins, no Searcher of their hearts, no Judge of their deeds, they like athiest wish to banish such a God from their thoughts.
---Mark_V. on 8/3/12


"Joe decides to commit a crime....He tells me ....Is it right to hold me accountable as an accessory to the crime, if so, by what standard?"-----Phil

Phil,

Now that is a good question. Where do we draw the line in such a matter? Is it different for an almost non-consequential misdemeanor compared to a felony such a murder?

What about tacit compliance such as tax dollars going to wars, or military actions in which civilians are killed or injured?

At some point one must agree that you must act, and failing to do so in itself is a crime. On the other hand, some things are not so clear, and your conscience will provoke you to action, despite the lack of society's or the law's position on a matter.
---atheist on 8/3/12


Joe decides to commit a crime. He tells me when and where he will do so. I do nothing to stop him, and he fulfills his plans.

Is it right to hold me accountable as an accessory to the crime, if so, by what standard?
---Phil on 8/3/12


"Do you believe God knows what we are going to do before we do it?" Yes.
"For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things." 1Jo 3:20
"He knows the secrets of the heart." Psa 44:21
"For [there is] not a word on my tongue, [But] behold, O LORD, You know it altogether." Psa 139:4
"There is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things [are] naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we [must give] account." Hbr 4:13
"For the word of God [is] living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword,... and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart". Hbr 4:12
---josef on 8/2/12


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"If god knows [everything] we do before we do it & he's omnipotent then [he's] quite a sadist for not stopping things like the shooting in Aurora. If [he's] not omnipotent, then [he's] not a god. On the other hand, since god does not exist, the question is pointless to begin with."
---atheist on 8/1/12


Omnipotent means Almighty (All Powerful). Yes, God is that. Likewise, He is Omniscient (All Knowing).

That's quite a scathing accusation against the One True, Holy & Living God OF WHOM YOU DON'T KNOW! If the question is irrelevant, then your reply is equally pointless. Nonetheless, unwittingly, you are right about "your god" (Lk. 4:1-13 ~ 2 Cor. 4:1-4) having limitations.
---Leon on 8/2/12


\\I'm sure my thoughts take him by surprise fairly often.
---Smitty on 8/1/12\\

And just where did you get the idea that you could surprise God, Smitty?

OTOH, God will frequently surprise us.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/2/12


O yes God know every thought. You can not fool God.
---Hamid on 8/2/12


God does indeed exist - but if He did not, I would only share the fate of an Atheist. If He exists, I, along with myriads will live in perfect health and peace forever

Sure, God knows what we think, otherwise what would be the point of silent prayers?

Free will is key - we humans are not robots, we act as we desire. Even Christians muck up - the only difference between a person who believes and someone who does not, is how Jesus is perceived - and His acceptance, forgiveness and love, which are offered to everyone, have been embraced
---Fleur on 8/2/12


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Mat 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Mar_14:18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.

Clearly
---TheSeg on 8/1/12


Mt9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
Mt9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee, or to say, Arise, and walk?
Lu11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and a house divided against a house falleth.

Seems to me that he is the creator and we are the created. I believe he hears all our thoughts.
Another example:
Mt5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Can we hide anything from God?
---trey on 8/1/12


And there can be times when He communicates with us by having us thinking what we do.
---willie_c: on 8/1/12


I'm sure my thoughts take him by surprise fairly often.
---Smitty on 8/1/12


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If god knows what we are going to do before we do it and he's omnipotent then he is quite a sadist for not stopping things like the shooting in Aurora.

If he is not omnipotent, then he is not a god.

On the other hand, since god does not exist, the question is pointless to begin with.
---atheist on 8/1/12


No, because God does not live in time.

He sees everything as they really are, in His eternal NOW.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/1/12


YES! However he lets us make choices to do what we do so we can learn from our experiances.
---womandisciple on 8/1/12


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