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What Is A Spirit

The spirit put into a body to make a soul (Gen 2:7) - is it God's spirit or man's spirit?

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 ---jerry6593 on 8/6/12
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francis, yes a soul is a living person. A soul is not the epidermas of a person. A person vs an animal has a soul where an animal does not. Animals do not resurrect. Animals are not called into judgement. Animals were never told they would spend eternity either in heaven or hell.

The soul never literally dies.

Death in scripture has different meanings. If today I am considered one who died with Christ, I'm still here aren't I?

Jesus soul did not die in that it bsacame totally non-existant. The Soul of Christ that decended into the lower parts is that EXACT SAME SOUL today in Heaven. Or else Jesus would be ANOTHER Jesus who rose from the dead.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/12


---kathr4453 on 8/21/12
I am not saying that Jesus was resurrected by touching another persons bones. I am saying that we do not understand the process of resurrection( Except that it is done by the spirit of God)

Look at some of these passages it is clear that a soul is a living being
Leviticus 5:2 if a soul touch
Leviticus 7:20 the soul that eateth
Leviticus 22:11 buy any soul with his money,

---francis on 8/21/12


\\Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die

SOUL CAN DIE\\

Text without a context is a pretext, francis. Typical SDA trick.

Context here clearly is using part for the whole.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/21/12


Can you point to OTHER resurrections before Jesus proving a soul is completely snuffed out?
---kathr4453 on 8/21/
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die

SOUL CAN DIE

Leviticus 17:15 And every soul that eateth that which died [of itself
SOULS CAN EAT

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul

SOUL CAN BE CONVERTED

you then should know that a soul is a living person
---francis on 8/21/12


He was resurrected in the same manner as all who was resurreted before Him.

If we understood how God resureted people, we would be Gods

2 Kings 13:21 ---and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
---francis on 8/21/12


Really francis, was that how Jesus was resurrected?

Can you point to OTHER resurrections before Jesus proving a soul is completely snuffed out?
---kathr4453 on 8/21/12




francis, please provide scripture where Jesus had no consciesness of His three days in the belly of the earth,...so scripture states. His PHYSICAL body was not in the belly of the earth, but in a tomb above ground.

What part of Him was 3 days in the belly of the earth?

Scripture tells us Jesus went to paradise in Hades, 1st Peter 3:18-19 tell us "...being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by His Spirit: By which also He went and preached unto the SPIRITS IN PRISON...". Also Ephesians 4:9, "...He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?".

What part of Him decended into the lower parts of the earth? Certainly not His epidermas.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/12


---kathr4453 on 8/21/12
Jesus was as dead as they come, as dead as anyone who died before Him.

He was resurrected in the same manner as all who was resurreted before Him.

If we understood how God resureted people, we would be Gods

2 Kings 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men, and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
---francis on 8/21/12


3: Jesus lost all consciousness, he had NO ability to bring himself back from the bead. His sprit, like that of all people went back to God, his body to the grave.

125 word limit
---francis on 8/20/12

So losing conscienceness and being completely snuffed out are two different things.

If in fact Jesus was totally snuffed out, WHO and what re-entered His body? A Spirit without a soul, or a BRAND SPANKING NEW SOUL with no memory of teh old one that just got snuffed out?
---kathr4453 on 8/21/12


(2Cor 12:2)
---James_L on 8/20/12
Paul does not know whether it was a vision, or whether he literally was taken to heaven.

---kathr4453 on 8/20/12
1: God did breath his spirit into man: Genesis 2:7..and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life,

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils,

2: Even the wicked has that same breath of life: Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

3: Jesus lost all consciousness, he had NO ability to bring himself back from the bead. His sprit, like that of all people went back to God, his body to the grave.

125 word limit
---francis on 8/20/12


MarkV: "If God puts His breath in a body that becomes a living soul you say, so how does one convert a soul?"

You are a SOUL. If you were a converted Christian, you would know how.



kathr: "Please show scripture where God reclaims His breath?"

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath,
Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
Job 34:16 If now thou hast understanding, hear this: hearken to the voice of my words.

---jerry6593 on 8/21/12




James L: "How does that jibe with your teaching?"

Paul frequently uses the term "the body" as a metaphor for the church - "the body of Christ". Don't be so hasty to base your doctrine on an isolated verse or two, while ignoring the preponderance of scriptural evidence to the contrary.


---jerry6593 on 8/21/12


francis, all you did was give the passages I gave you, but did not explain how the soul was converted. You tell me the person was converted, when you and Jerry say the soul is the breath of life, and didn't say to what the life or breath was converted to. And if the soul dies when a person dies, do you mean you save it so it will die when you die? Or are you saying the person die and is buried but he is really asleep and the soul is asleep also converted and saved in the grave? Come on now, you should be able to answer the questions.
---Mark_V. on 8/21/12


\\More proof that a soul is a living person and not something inside you\\
---francis on 8/20/12


"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago

-whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows

-such a man was caught up to the third heaven." (2Cor 12:2)


Paul says this could have been IN the body, or OUT OF the body.

How does that jibe with your teaching? If the body and soul are one, inseparable, then Paul should have known that there couldn't be any such thing as either in the body or out of the body. You know something he didn't?
---James_L on 8/20/12


Ecclesiastes 12:7 -- francis//

So francis, is the soul or the spirit returning to God who gave it. God didn't breath a spirit into man...

So exactly who and when has this spirit been given? And does that mean even the wicked's spirit returns to God?

In referring to Jesus scripture states He will not LEAVE my SOUL in Hell.

We know Jesus died correct and His SOUL went to Sheol/hades/Abraham's Bosom. He said before dying, into THINE hands I commend my spirit.

Did Jesus loose all consciousness of life until resurrected? How then could He or the man next to Him be absolutely sure that that THAT DAY you will be WITH Me in Paradise/Abraham's Bosom. Couldn't have been the man's Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 8/20/12


Please show scripture where God reclaims His breath?
---kathr4453 on 8/20/12
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

so yes God does reclaim it
Also see biblical references " gave up the ghost..."


If God puts His breath in a body that becomes a living soul you say, so how does one convert a soul? ---Mark_V. on 8/20/12

More proof that a soul is a living person and not something inside you

we convert people to christ or christianity

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting people: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.

---francis on 8/20/12


Please show scripture where God reclaims His breath?
---kathr4453 on 8/20/12


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Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
Let's re-visit this verse.

At the time God created "MAN", I can only see ONE TIME that God breathed into MAN'S Nostrils. I don't see other instance that God breathed breath into any nostrils.

Life begins at conception, not the moment one is out of the womb and takes a breath.

The context francis is that MAN is not ANIMAL. When an animal dies it just dies period. No Soul is in an animal. Animals won't suffer eternal LIFE or eternal damnation, because they have no soul....yet they sure "breath" just like you and me.
---kathr4453 on 8/20/12


If God puts His breath in a body that becomes a living soul you say, so how does one convert a soul? ---Mark_V. on 8/20/12

Mark_V a soul is a living being, living person, living soul
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord,
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

CONVEERT PEOPLE LIVING SOULS
we cannot convert the dead
---francis on 8/20/12


francis, The scriptures of Luke, Abraham's Bosom and Lazarus IS NOT A PARABLE. In Parables, no specific names are mentioned. "Abraham's Bosom" was where souls went BEFORE Jesus rose from the dead, also called PARADISE, where Jesus told the man next to Him, TODAY you will be with me "in Paradise". Abraham's Bosom/Paradise and hades/sheol had 2 compartments....one for saints one for sinners.

Jesus certainly was not telling the man next to Him a Parable...believe me. When Jesus ROSE from the Dead, He lead captivity captive and all in Abraham's bosom are NOW in Heaven.

To enter His "Rest" is NOT another word for death either. Hebrews 3-4 is not about DEATH!.
---kathr4453 on 8/20/12


Ok smart Jerry, lets use your logic, you said:

"The Bible says that God puts His (God's) breath of life into a body (dust) to create a third entity - a soul, person, life, etc. And, when God reclaims His breath, that life ceases."

If God puts His breath in a body that becomes a living soul you say, so how does one convert a soul? The Bible says in (Psa. 19:7)
"The Law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul" Convert it to what? Another breath? from air to more air?
Another passage says you can put your soul in Jeopardy, we can save that soul (James 5:19) how do you save the soul if it is breath? How do you pump life into life, if the breath brings life?
---Mark_V. on 8/20/12


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1.Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/12
I see nothing about " soul" in your comment.

Truely when the spirit leaves the body the person dies. Many OT references of "gave up the ghost. spirit and died"

Genesis 3:19 for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

And no more soul, the person is dead, A soul is a living person. when they die, teh soul is no more
---francis on 8/19/12


*****************

MarkV: "Jerry, the Spirit of God puts the soul in man and He takes the soul, either to heaven or to wait for the Judgment Day."

You need to brush up on your reading skills and your logical thinking. The Bible says that God puts His (God's) breath of life into a body (dust) to create a third entity - a soul, person, life, etc. And, when God reclaims His breath, that life ceases.

Your logic is similarly faulty. You would have people going to heaven (reward) or purgatory (most say hell, punishment) BEFORE the judgement. Even fallable man waits until AFTER judgement to dispense reward or punishment.


******************
---jerry6593 on 8/19/12


This contrast between Adam and The Christ lets us know that a soul and a spirit are two separate things
---francis on 8/18/12

Exactly francis. Now some say the spirit of man died when Adam sinned, and that God regenerated the spirit of man resulting in salvation. This too is wrong. And that concept confuses the truth even more.

Just as faith without works os dead, the body without the spirit is also dead.

1.Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/12


Here is what God's word says

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul,

Adam became a LIVING BEING
a soul is a living being. That means that a soul is not spirit

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

1 Corinthians 15:45 the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

This contrast between Adam and The Christ lets us know that a soul and a spirit are two separate things
---francis on 8/18/12


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Jerry, the Spirit of God puts the soul in man and He takes the soul, either to heaven or to wait for the Judgment Day.

(Matt. 16:26) says,
"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?"
Here Jesus was referring to the Judgment Day when a man faces the disastrous hell of remorse and suffering for his lost soul, with what will he buy it back from perdition? he cannot. (Gen. 35:18) tells us,
"And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name "Ben-Oni:" Her soul departed, when she died. The soul did not die, it departed.
---Mark_V. on 8/18/12


You now say RESTORE the Soul. Can a soul that no longer exists be "restored" if it's distinguished? If I put out a fire, I can never restore THAT exact fire, I start a new fire.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/12



Because a soul is a living being, once the person / if that person dies, and is ressurected in the first resurrection, that soul now has eternal life.

---francis on 8/17/12


\\able to klll you, but Jesus is able to resurrect the body and restore the soul...
Once that sould which has been killed is restored by jesus, it will be immortal\\
---francis

See, that was my question francis. You now say RESTORE the Soul. Can a soul that no longer exists be "restored" if it's distinguished? If I put out a fire, I can never restore THAT exact fire, I start a new fire.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/12


Once that soul which has been killed is restored by jesus, it will be immortal
---francis

Once that soul which has been killed ?? by Who?

You're pretending that it says your soul dies with the body.
---James_L on 8/17/12

Because a soul is a living being, once the person / if that person dies, and is ressurected in the first resurrection, that soul now has eternal life.

No pretense, is a soul is a living person, once that living person dies now can you have a soul?

Revelation 16:3...and every living soul died..

or you could say ever living person

Genesis 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died)
---francis on 8/17/12


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\\reinforces the doctrine that a soul is a living person.\\
---francis

How did you draw that out of what I said ?? EXPLAIN YOURESELF


\\able to klll you, but Jesus is able to resurrect the body and restore the soul...
Once that sould which has been killed is restored by jesus, it will be immortal\\
---francis

HUH ? ! ?

Once that soul which has been killed ?? by Who?

You're pretending that it says your soul dies with the body.

That's nothing but latent dishonesty. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Jesus said they can kill your body, but NOT your soul. Your body can be laying in a ditch, cut to pieces, but they did not harm your soul.

Explain thyself, heretic.
---James_L on 8/17/12


God is Spirit also speaks of His soul.

Leviticus 26:11
and I will set my tabernacle mong you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

Leviticus 26:30
--- and my soul shall abhor you.

Isaiah 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold, mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth, I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Zech11:8
--- and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Matt 12:18
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen, my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Heb 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/12


But you didn't answer my question. The passage says nothing about eternal life. Instead, it talks about body and soul.

So what exactly is this soul which Jesus talked about, and exactly where in the text do you find your answer?
---James_L on 8/16/12

Perfect, which reinforces the doctrine that a soul is a living person.

The may be able to klll you, but Jesus is able to resurrect the body and restore the soul. No one else can do that

Once that sould which has been killed is restored by jesus, it will be immortal
---francis on 8/17/12


\\Do not be afraid of men who may kill you. They may be able to kill your body, but they are unable to take eternal life away from you, only God has the power over eternal life and death.

Notice that this soul which some are claiming is imortal, God is able to destroy.\\
---francis on 8/16/12


But you didn't answer my question. The passage says nothing about eternal life. Instead, it talks about body and soul.

So what exactly is this soul which Jesus talked about, and exactly where in the text do you find your answer?
---James_L on 8/16/12


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**********************

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts, even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other, yea, they have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast:

Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath,
Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
Job 34:16 If now thou hast understanding, hear this: hearken to the voice of my words.


**************************
---jerry6593 on 8/17/12


---kathr4453 on 8/16/12
Kath I am not 100% sure I understand what you are saying, Out of respect. I am unable to give a direct reply, sorry.



---James_L on 8/16/12
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Do not be afraid of men who may kill you. They may be able to kill your body, but they are unable to take eternal life away from you, only God has the power over eternal life and death.

Notice that this soul which some are claiming is imortal, God is able to destroy.
---francis on 8/16/12


living person, or our deepest passions......NEVER is it used to describe anything that leaves the body at death...\\
---francis on 8/16/12


So which one do you believe Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 10:28?

Was He saying that your body could be dead, yet your "life" not dead ??

or

was He saying that your body could be dead, but your "passion" not dead ??


Neither seems to make a sensible connection to your belief that the body is a soul, but only if the body is alive.

Explain ??
---James_L on 8/16/12


Francis Jesus came to save our SOUL. So the soul that sinneth it shall die, doesn't mean to be extinguished. If we see in Revelation 21, the souls of men that were beheadded etc, meaning those souls were resurrected to eternal life, (1st resurrection)and those other souls who did not make the first resurrection receive eternal death or HELL or separation from God, this is what death means here.

Otherwise you are saying God is re-incarnation a soul. Or you are saying for instance my soul will be recreated, whereby my old soul that died/was extinquished is not the same or even has a remembrance of my 1st soul.

How then can God punish sinners?
---kathr4453 on 8/16/12


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Francis,

"soul" is used in more than one way in scripture.
---James_L on 8/16/12

I agree. it can be used to speak of a living person, or our deepest passions.

NEVER is it used to describe anything that leaves the body at death, and goes to heaven or to hell
---francis on 8/16/12


Francis,

"soul" is used in more than one way in scripture. It can mean "life" as when Jesus said in Matt 16:26

"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?" (NASB)

"For what shall a man be profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? or what shall a man give in exchange for his life?" (ASV)

But it can also refer to that noncorporeal aspect of man which most refer to as the soul, as in Matt 10:28

"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul, but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (NASB & ASV)
---James_L on 8/16/12


francis, you give (Gen.12:5) as an argument. Just another passage to cloud the truth. Abram departed and took with them people they had aquired in Haran.
---Mark_V. on 8/16/12


Genesis 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran, and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan, and into the land of Canaan they came
So a soul is a living person. Man does not possess a soul, a living person IS a soul.

Do you see any difference between a soul being people and being living people
---francis on 8/16/12


The spirit put into a body to make a soul (Gen 2:7) - is it God's spirit or man's spirit?
---jerry6593 on 8/6/12

Now back to the question at hand:

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils,

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

well clearly it is God's spirit
---francis on 8/15/12


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francis, you give (Gen.12:5) as an argument. Just another passage to cloud the truth. Abram departed and took with them people they had aquired in Haran. He didn't take dead people, he didn't take their the souls of the people. Nowhere does it state they were people asleep. Or people dead without their souls. Or that the souls they took were asleep. Stop your nonsense. You want to wiggle your way out of your predicament. How do you know a soul is asleep when you are asleep? Or even when you are dead?
---Mark_V. on 8/16/12


Genesis 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran, and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan, and into the land of Canaan they came.

If souls are not living beings, how did abraham carry these souls, did he pu them in his boosom?
---francis on 8/15/12


---Mark_V. on 8/15/12
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
Genesis 12:5 And Abram took..the souls that they had gotten in Haran,

So a soul is a living person. Man does not possess a soul, a living person IS a soul. When that living person goes to bed at night, a soul goes to sleep.



Ezekiel 18:4 the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Revelation 16:3 and every living soul died in the sea.

NOTHING in either verse means that souls die.
---Cluny on 8/15/12

" Well then, Cluny and James_L " he asked "tell me what do these text say about the death of a soul?"
---francis on 8/15/12


\\You don't actually think that verses of the Bible are individual stand-alone units, do you?\\
---Cluny on 8/15/12


Unfortunately, most adhere to "one-liner" theology, and context matters none for these.

As a matter of fact, the context will many times defeat the misuse of a one-liner pulled away, so context is abhorred and ingnored
---James_L on 8/15/12


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francis, how convenient for you to say that when a person goes to sleep his soul goes to sleep. How do you know, since you are asleep? Have you seen a soul asleep on another person when he is asleep?
The two passages you gave (Gen. 2:21 and 15:12) do not say anything whatsoever about the soul. You added soul to those passages, how convenient.
Come on man.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/12


Ezekiel 18:4 the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Revelation 16:3 and every living soul died in the sea.

NOTHING in either verse means that souls die.
---Cluny on 8/15/12

" Well then," he asked LOL. "tell me what do they mean?"
---francis on 8/15/12


Francis, would you please explain why you believe in soul sleeping?
---trey on 8/14/12
Soul sleep is not a SDA teaching. That is what people who do not accept that the bible calls death a sleep says.

For SDA a soul is alseep at night ( in some cases in the daytime) when he or she goes to bed.

A soul is a live human being, soul sleping does occur since all human being do sleep from time to time

Here are examples of souls sleeping:
Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam
Genesis 15:12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram, and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

But when one dies, there is no more soul
---francis on 8/15/12


\\Ezekiel 18:4 the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Revelation 16:3 and every living soul died in the sea.\\

You have a way of ripping verses from their context, thus proving the precept: A text without a context is a pretext.

You don't actually think that verses of the Bible are individual stand-alone units, do you?

In both cases, "soul" is taken as a part for the whole. NOTHING in either verse means that souls die.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/15/12


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Rev20:4 And I saw thrones, and ...Francis, would you please explain why you believe in soul sleeping?
---trey on 8/14/12

Obviously revelation 20 speaks about a future event.
Clearly when John had that vision, no one had yet (as no one has today) received the mark of the beast.

before revelation 29:4 comes the first resurrection when those who will be saved are ressurected
---francis on 8/15/12


Francis, would you please explain why you believe in soul sleeping?
---trey on 8/14/12
Ezekiel 18:4 the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Revelation 16:3 and every living soul died in the sea.

So much for the immortal soul doctrine

The bible then equats death with a sleep:

1 Kings 2:10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:

John 11:11 Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

But the soul does not sleep at death, at death is soul in no more.

Body plus breath of life makes a soul. Once the body has given up the ghost, we no longer have a soul
---francis on 8/15/12


Man became a living soul.

Mat_22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat_22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth! --
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/14/12


Francis,
The Apostle John was looking into heaven and sees:
Rev20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Francis, would you please explain why you believe in soul sleeping?
---trey on 8/14/12


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francis, Rev 21 is describing a CITY, not souls...please continue ...
---kathr4453 on 8/14/12


Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, AND NAMES WRITTEN THEREON which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Both text show that the dead are not in heaven, but THEIR NAMES ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN
---francis on 8/14/12


Where do you suppose this is, and where Jesus is right now?

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/12


francis, Rev 21 is describing a CITY, not souls...please continue ...

Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper, the second, sapphire, the third, a chalcedony, the fourth, an emerald,

20 The fifth, sardonyx, the sixth, sardius, the seventh, chrysolyte, the eighth, beryl, the ninth, a topaz, the tenth, a chrysoprasus, the eleventh, a jacinth, the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/12


---kathr4453 on 8/14/12

which text in hebrews 12 says that they are in heaven
---francis on 8/14/12


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Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


I do not see that anyone is in heaven, nor does it say that there spirit is in heaven. It says they are written in heaven, where God and many angels live.

Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
---francis on 8/14/12


francis, please look at Hebrews 12. RIGHT NOW there is in heaven
1. The spirits of JUST men made PERFECT. These were OT Saints held in Abraham's bosom until Jesus rose from the dead and took the saints with him.

Luke states in hades there are two different places that a deceased soul went to.
Back to Hebrews 12:

2. The General Assembly = the Angels
3. "The CHURCH" of the First Born,..those today who are saved during the Church age, and
4. Jesus Christ...all right there right now in Heaven.

Absent from the body is to be present WITH the Lord.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/12


Of course David is dead and buried some place out there. That is his physical body. His spirit is not buried, it cannot die,
---Mark_V. on 8/14/12
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

It is NOT david's spirit, it is the breath of life ( spirit) given by God who goes back to God at death.

David is as God said man would be

Genesis 3:19 for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
---francis on 8/14/12


francis, you said,

"David did not go to heaven when he died, nor did he go when jesus was resurrected. He is as the bible says: Dead and buried, and not assended into heaven."

Of course David is dead and buried some place out there. That is his physical body. His spirit is not buried, it cannot die, it is alive with Christ (Eph. 2:4-6). What is so hard for you to understand? Like all of us Jesus also had a physical body, a soul and a spirit in His humanity.
"My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death" (Matt. 26:38)
"When Jesus had thus said, He was troubled in the spirit" (John 13:21).
---Mark_V. on 8/14/12


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"The spirit put into a body to make a soul (Gen 2:7) - is it God's spirit or man's spirit?" Gods. The human spirit is not some disembodied ethereal essence that is placed within his or her body. Biblically, the human's spirit references either his or her life, vivacity, mental disposition, overall attitude, or the heart of one's emotions. Basically one's spirit is one's habitual way of acting towards or relating to one's fellow human, or the life that one has been granted, and is developed over time through life's experiences.
---joseph on 8/12/12


Here is one of two bible teachings on what happens when we die:

2 Samuel 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me

1 Kings 2:10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day...Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:

David did not go to heaven when he died, nor did he go when jesus was resurrected. He is as the bible says: Dead and buried, and not assended into heaven.
---francis on 8/11/12


Job 33:18 He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.

Job 33:19 He is chastened also with pain upon his bed, and the multitude of his bones with strong pain:

Job 33:20 So that his life abhorreth bread, and his soul dainty meat.

Job 33:21 His flesh is consumed away, that it cannot be seen, and his bones that were not seen stick out.

Job 33:22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

well this passage sould convinces everyone who has wisdom that the soul and the spirit are not the same.

the spirit does not go to the grave, itgoes back to God who gave it
---francis on 8/11/12


---trey on 8/10/12
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Man does not possess a soul, the body with the breath of life is a soul.

The spirit is the Holy breath of God ( Holy Spirit) Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,

when we die, the spirit of God goes back to him, and the body returns to dust, thus the living soul dies
Rev 16:3 and every living soul died...
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

see also the phrase " gave up the ghost..."
---francis on 8/11/12


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Trey, I notice what you write. You made sound sense on the 10 Commandmments site. I can never imagine how any Christian can believe we can live in contradiction of the 10 Commandments.
---Warwick on 8/11/12


Hi Francis, first of all, thanks for acknoweging me. Sometimes I'll write something and no on responds and I wonder if my efforts are futile. (Probably they are....)
OK, God made man's body out of the dust. I believe we agree on that.
Do you believe in the spirit?
Do you believe in the soul?
Without God would man possess a spirit and a soul?
Are the spirit and soul simply figments of my imagination?
Please share your wisdom.
---trey on 8/10/12


God made man in three parts, body, soul and spirit.
---trey on 8/6/12

Let us count the parts:


Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Well what i see here is that God made man of ONE PART: DUST

and then God breathed into him the breat of life ( which belongs to God) and man became a living soul

Genesis 3:19 for out of it( the ground) wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

No soul just dust
---francis on 8/8/12


Slogger9211: And just what is your purpose in taking the time to write all that? Why do you continue to argue with someone who agrees with you?


---jerry6593 on 8/8/12


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Gerry6593, I provided a precise definition of SOUL as used in Gen 2:7. I told you the Hebrew word it came from and it definitive definition, it is not something you poses rather it a state of being that you are, a living creature. If you desire a more in-depth linguistic study you will need to consult The Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament that is the best source on Biblical Hebrew term usage. Published by Eerdmans Publishing Co. There are currently 15 volumes of the set in publication. Better seminary libraries should have it in their reference section for on premises use. As the set is currently incomplete it is not available as Bible software. The New Testament version is available from Logos Software.
---Blogger9211 on 8/7/12


"Is it God's spirit or man's spirit?" Jerry6593, It is the "breath of life".
Therefore "All the while my breath [is] in me, the 'spirit' (breath) of God [is] in my nostrils." In other words "as long as I have life within me, the breath of God in my nostrils, [NIV]" For "The Spirit of God has made me, and the 'breath' (spirit, as the life giving essence, and energy) of the Almighty has given me life. It was by the "Spirit of God" that "The first man Adam became a living soul, and the last Adam a quickening spirit." Job 27:3>Job 33:4>1Cr 15:45 [DBY]
---Josef on 8/7/12


Blogger: "Jerry6593, you have no concept of what SOUL means in Gen 2:7"

Oh really! Now just how would YOU know that? I asked a question. I didn't make a statement. And YOU, like everyone except Francis failed to answer it.

FYI, I agree with your concept of the state of the dead. Next time, don't be so hasty with friendly fire.


---jerry6593 on 8/7/12


Jerry, I do not believe you are on track concerning the spirit and the soul. God made man in three parts, body, soul and spirit. Only God can seperate the spirit and the soul.
Consider these two verses:
Heb4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
BTW, the Word of God is Jesus Christ.
Ro8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Of course The Spirit is the Holy Ghost.
---trey on 8/6/12


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According to various passages in the NT, spirit and soul and body are separate parts of our human nature.

Genesis is NOT the last word on the matter.

Glory to Jesus Christ1
---Cluny on 8/6/12


The spirit put into a body to make a soul (Gen 2:7) - is it God's spirit or man's spirit?
---jerry6593 on 8/6/12

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], died.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils,

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Scripture says: IT IS GOD's
---francis on 8/6/12


Jerry6593, you have no concept of what SOUL means in Gen 2:7 [Hebrew neh-fish] it is any living creature born alive, breathing air and of independent movement and the reason Biblically that life begins at birth and not at conception. You do not have a soul, rather you are a soul [a living creature, no differentiation from any other animal form] as long as you are alive and breathing. When you die you are dead likewise your soul is dead as you are no longer a soul, a living creature you are a former living creature. After the general resurrection of the dead when you receive a new glorified body you become a soul again. But during that interim period you just are dead.
---Blogger9211 on 8/6/12


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